I need to ask this question of those who had WLS

[Sandie_Zitkus]

I have a friend who had a bypass about 8 years ago (maybe longer). I'm concerned about her. She lost originally about 200 lbs. She has since gained back about 100 lbs. The thing I am worried about is what she eats. She only eats candy, bread, cookies, all simple carbs. She cannot digest protein or veggies very well. Oh and she drinks a lot - because she doesn't get drunk, so beer is her best friend.

I am really concerned about her but she will not speak to her doctor about any of this. She ate a whole bag of halloween candy in about 15 minutes the other day. And she just keeps inhaling sugery things.

I now none of this is good - I guess I'm wondering if someone can tell me what is going on in her body?

[Miss Vickie]

Oh man, Sandie. None of it's good, that's for sure. The combination of not eating well and over consuming simple carbs is potentially disastrous. I'm guessing that there's some sort of emotional component to her situation but if she won't talk to her doctor I don't know what you can do. It sounds like she's really trying to fill some void, though, with food.

I feel badly for her. Will she open up to you? She's really courting some major health problems -- from the drinking, the sugar, and the (apparent) malnutrition. :(

[Shosh]

I am not sure of how to advise you here Sandie, but doesn't it bring it home to you that the whole struggle with weight and the mind will never be over for those of us that struggle with it. It is a daily demon.

I am not familiar with the eating regime of the RNY as I have a lap band, but I don't have to tell you that the way your friend is eating is potentially dangerous.

What can you do though? Your friend has to take the reigns again and gain control over it. It is so hard Sandie. I know, I have to make the correct decisions daily. I often want comfort food, but I have to control myself. I miss the comfort of food.

Anyway, you are a good friend for caring so much.

[Dromond]

Her not getting the protein her body needs is causing it to rob protein out of her muscles. This will lead to all sorts of trouble as muscles all over her body get weaker - including the cardiac muscles. Consuming only simple carbs is what is packing the weight onto her. At the time she's weakening her body, she's putting more demands on it with the extra weight. A very dangerous situation.

I'm surprised she's not getting dumping syndrome from all the simple carbs and sugar she's consuming.

[LoveBHMS]

Mmmkay.

But aren't you like the first person to say that what people eat and how they manage their "health" is a personal matter?

How is it that if/when anybody expresses concern over lifestyle or food choices discussed on some of these posts, the "concerned person" is maligned as the bad guy, and yet here you are watching a person following an eating plan that you know is unhealthy, and you feel totally comfortable posting here about it and wondering about her possible health problems.

Obviously eating nothing but simple carbs in unhealthy, but hey...her body her choice ya know? As far as I can see, what she eats is between her and her doctor. If the posts on this board from those who have had WLS are any indication, your friend has received hours and hours of counseling and information from doctors and other medical professionals about follow up care after surgery. But if she's not doing it, that's her business. I'm willing to bet she already knows the risks she's taking following this course of behaviour and i'm also willing to bet that if she were posting here about YOUR food and lifestyle choices and worrying over how they might affect your health, you'd be ticked off in the EXTREME because she should be minding her own business.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I am concerned about her health but she won't take any advice, so sadly there is nothing I can do except be her friend.

LBHM - :rolleyes:

[TraciJo67]

LBHM - :rolleyes:

ROFL @ :rolleyes:

Sandie, that icon just ... says it all. And rather eloquently, at that. No words need be spoken.

But I'll speak them anyway.

If blatant hypocrisy were a factor in barring someone from speaking his/her mind, we'd all be mute.

On topic: This is a sticky situation, Sandie. When I read what you wrote, my first thought was ... you could be describing me (minus the weight gain ... an overload of carbs has the opposite effect on me, which is not a good thing either). I know that what I eat isn't healthy. I think that your friend probably does, too. It sounds like she's returned to her default coping mechanism -- the old, comforting routines that "worked" for her in the past (at least, provided a temporary outlet). That is true for me, and at my worst, I feel incredibly defensive about it. I'm not sure that I'd be entirely open to a discussion about it. Something along the (nuetral) lines of, "You know, I love you and I want what is best for you. If you ever need to talk, you know my door is always open" would probably work well in any situation.

[Miss Vickie]

ROFL @ :rolleyes:

Sandie, that icon just ... says it all. And rather eloquently, at that. No words need be spoken.

But I'll speak them anyway.

If blatant hypocrisy were a factor in barring someone from speaking his/her mind, we'd all be mute.

No kidding. It's a little hard to take chastisement seriously from someone who's had demonstrated an incredible breach of etiquette and compassion.

On topic: This is a sticky situation, Sandie. When I read what you wrote, my first thought was ... you could be describing me (minus the weight gain ... an overload of carbs has the opposite effect on me, which is not a good thing either). I know that what I eat isn't healthy. I think that your friend probably does, too. It sounds like she's returned to her default coping mechanism -- the old, comforting routines that "worked" for her in the past (at least, provided a temporary outlet). That is true for me, and at my worst, I feel incredibly defensive about it. I'm not sure that I'd be entirely open to a discussion about it. Something along the (nuetral) lines of, "You know, I love you and I want what is best for you. If you ever need to talk, you know my door is always open" would probably work well in any situation.

I agree, Traci. Whether we admit it or not, many of us (most of us!) have food issues and when stressed or in pain will revert to those old coping mechanisms. WLS is belly surgery -- not brain surgery -- and it's only negative reinforcement that prevents us from overeating; however, depending on the person and their response to the surgery, there may not be much in the way of negative reinforcement, since some of us can eat carbs and fats without consequence.

I think I'd be really defensive if a loved one came on too strongly about the choices I was making but a clear offer of support is something most of us would welcome, provided it came without judgment.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

You know, I have food issues that I deal with everyday just like everyone else. Some days are better than others , and no I would not like it if anyone wanted to give me advice.

The difference is (I think) I'm not eating just sugary things and carbs (I know her husband too, so I kinda do know what she eats) and if I was I would hope Wayne would question me about what is going on.

The last thing I want to do is upset her, I care about her. So I think I will just be her friend, and be there if she wants to talk about it. I don't know what else to do.

Thanks Vickie and Traci. :)



No kidding. It's a little hard to take chastisement seriously from someone who's had demonstrated an incredible breach of etiquette and compassion.


I agree, Traci. Whether we admit it or not, many of us (most of us!) have food issues and when stressed or in pain will revert to those old coping mechanisms. WLS is belly surgery -- not brain surgery -- and it's only negative reinforcement that prevents us from overeating; however, depending on the person and their response to the surgery, there may not be much in the way of negative reinforcement, since some of us can eat carbs and fats without consequence.

I think I'd be really defensive if a loved one came on too strongly about the choices I was making but a clear offer of support is something most of us would welcome, provided it came without judgment.

[Shosh]

No kidding. It's a little hard to take chastisement seriously from someone who's had demonstrated an incredible breach of etiquette and compassion.



I agree, Traci. Whether we admit it or not, many of us (most of us!) have food issues and when stressed or in pain will revert to those old coping mechanisms. WLS is belly surgery -- not brain surgery -- and it's only negative reinforcement that prevents us from overeating; however, depending on the person and their response to the surgery, there may not be much in the way of negative reinforcement, since some of us can eat carbs and fats without consequence.

I think I'd be really defensive if a loved one came on too strongly about the choices I was making but a clear offer of support is something most of us would welcome, provided it came without judgment.

Last week I reverted to my old coping mechanism of eating. I had the Fraxel laser on my face, and I was in a world of pain, so I decided that I needed an icecream to sooth myself. I am not joking either at all, I went and had an icecream, and I could feel the stress and tension leaving my body as I was eating it.
My first thought was that I had been through a painful experience and I needed comfort.
The more we change,the more we stay the same.

[TraciJo67]

Last week I reverted to my old coping mechanism of eating. I had the Fraxel laser on my face, and I was in a world of pain, so I decided that I needed an icecream to sooth myself. I am not joking either at all, I went and had an icecream, and I could feel the stress and tension leaving my body as I was eating it.
My first thought was that I had been through a painful experience and I needed comfort.
The more we change,the more we stay the same.

A few months ago, I was told some unexpected and very painful news about a family member.

As I was trying to process this, I found myself searching through the drawer that I used to keep my cigarettes in. I realized that I was unconsciously looking for a cigarette, despite the fact that I stopped smoking many years ago. Had there been one in the house, I would have surely lit up... without even realizing that I was doing so.

You're right, Susannah. The more we change, the more we stay the same.

[Donna]

Mmmkay.

But aren't you like the first person to say that what people eat and how they manage their "health" is a personal matter?

How is it that if/when anybody expresses concern over lifestyle or food choices discussed on some of these posts, the "concerned person" is maligned as the bad guy, and yet here you are watching a person following an eating plan that you know is unhealthy, and you feel totally comfortable posting here about it and wondering about her possible health problems.

Obviously eating nothing but simple carbs in unhealthy, but hey...her body her choice ya know? As far as I can see, what she eats is between her and her doctor. If the posts on this board from those who have had WLS are any indication, your friend has received hours and hours of counseling and information from doctors and other medical professionals about follow up care after surgery. But if she's not doing it, that's her business. I'm willing to bet she already knows the risks she's taking following this course of behaviour and i'm also willing to bet that if she were posting here about YOUR food and lifestyle choices and worrying over how they might affect your health, you'd be ticked off in the EXTREME because she should be minding her own business.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that.

ROFL @ :rolleyes:

Sandie, that icon just ... says it all. And rather eloquently, at that. No words need be spoken.

But I'll speak them anyway.

If blatant hypocrisy were a factor in barring someone from speaking his/her mind, we'd all be mute.
*snip*

No kidding. It's a little hard to take chastisement seriously from someone who's had demonstrated an incredible breach of etiquette and compassion.

LBHM, Vickie and Traci are far nicer than I am, and quite a bit wiser, too.

It's takes brass ovaries for you to so blatantly snark at someone considering the way you have behaved in the past. I mean, I know you think we should all have WLS, so I am assuming that is why you are reading the WLS forum. What's the phrase? Pot, meet kettle?

Technically, given her virulent stance against WLS, I am not one bit surprised that Sandie is asking this question. She doesn't know what goes on in the body of a post-WLS patient any more than you know what it's like to be a fat woman.

[Shosh]

A few months ago, I was told some unexpected and very painful news about a family member.

As I was trying to process this, I found myself searching through the drawer that I used to keep my cigarettes in. I realized that I was unconsciously looking for a cigarette, despite the fact that I stopped smoking many years ago. Had there been one in the house, I would have surely lit up... without even realizing that I was doing so.

You're right, Susannah. The more we change, the more we stay the same.

It is comforting to know in a way that I am not the only person that fights these kind of demons.

I have been feeling that maybe I should be ashamed of myself for my disfunction when it comes to eating, but maybe just maybe, many people struggle with this also.

I do not think it will ever leave me, I just have to manage it day to day.

[Friday]

LBHM, Vickie and Traci are far nicer than I am, and quite a bit wiser, too.

It's takes brass ovaries for you to so blatantly snark at someone considering the way you have behaved in the past. I mean, I know you think we should all have WLS, so I am assuming that is why you are reading the WLS forum. What's the phrase? Pot, meet kettle?

Technically, given her virulent stance against WLS, I am not one bit surprised that Sandie is asking this question. She doesn't know what goes on in the body of a post-WLS patient any more than you know what it's like to be a fat woman.

Thank you Donna. After her totally classless display earlier this year I am totally at a loss as to why LoveBHMS ever had her posting rights restored. She obviously is not a proponent of size acceptance and in fact hates fat women with a passion. Makes no sense for her to be here.

[LoveBHMS]

Thank you Donna. After her totally classless display earlier this year I am totally at a loss as to why LoveBHMS ever had her posting rights restored. She obviously is not a proponent of size acceptance and in fact hates fat women with a passion. Makes no sense for her to be here.

It's not up to you to decide who posts here. I'm sure many are "totally at a loss" as to why somebody who publically told the site's Webmaster to go to hell is still posting here, but it's really none of anyone's business.

Donna- You know nothing about me so kindly keep personal remarks out of your posts. Have you seen me in person? Do you know what I look like or may have looked like in the past? I don't think so.

I'm not going to take personal attacks. I pointed out that Sandie herself has said time and again that she believes a person's health matters to be off limits to anyone else, so the pot-kettle-black thing is really relevant. When a poster has said that she does not want others questioning HER medical issues, than I'm going to point out that it's hypocritical for her to harp on her friend's eating habits and to wonder aloud about her friend's health.

[TraciJo67]

It's not up to you to decide who posts here. I'm sure many are "totally at a loss" as to why somebody who publically told the site's Webmaster to go to hell is still posting here, but it's really none of anyone's business.


I do believe that the word you were searching for is 'publicly'.

And while I have my differences with Conrad, as many others ALSO do, I don't believe that I've ever been caught with my pants around my ankles ... dissing the 'fatties' while posting on a website dedicated to fat admiration.

Look, LBHMS. It isn't that I don't see your point. It's that I'm in awe of the fact that you apparently fail to see the mind-numbing irony inherent here ... that in this arena, right here, you have zero credibility. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

You're not a fat woman, you haven't had WLS, and you quite clearly have issues with fat women. Your words. We all read them. So while I'm chuckling at your attempt to make this about me, and my credibility issues, I'm going to quite cheerfully direct you back to the title of *this* thread, and what's happening in *this* format.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

It's not up to you to decide who posts here. I'm sure many are "totally at a loss" as to why somebody who publically told the site's Webmaster to go to hell is still posting here, but it's really none of anyone's business.

I can tell you why, because Traci is part of our family. There has been so much worse posted to Conrad on these boards, I think he probably got a chuckle out of Traci's post. And Conrad is a very kind man who cares about all trhe people he has come to know through SA and these boards. And Conrad is tolerant, which is probably why you LBHM are still here.

Donna- You know nothing about me so kindly keep personal remarks out of your posts. Have you seen me in person? Do you know what I look like or may have looked like in the past? I don't think so.

Oh I think Donna knows all she needs to know about you LBHM. I think the only question is, "Why are YOU still here?"

I'm not going to take personal attacks. I pointed out that Sandie herself has said time and again that she believes a person's health matters to be off limits to anyone else, so the pot-kettle-black thing is really relevant. When a poster has said that she does not want others questioning HER medical issues, than I'm going to point out that it's hypocritical for her to harp on her friend's eating habits and to wonder aloud about her friend's health.

IF you are going to dish out personal attacks, you better be able to take it. It is nobody's business what anyone does to their bodies - however - you don't know the relationship I have with my friend and THAT is none of your business either.

Now - get out of my thread. You are derailing it and posting personal attacks. You want to talk about hypocrisy - start your own thread.

[Donna]

It's not up to you to decide who posts here. I'm sure many are "totally at a loss" as to why somebody who publically told the site's Webmaster to go to hell is still posting here, but it's really none of anyone's business.

Donna- You know nothing about me so kindly keep personal remarks out of your posts. Have you seen me in person? Do you know what I look like or may have looked like in the past? I don't think so.

I'm not going to take personal attacks. I pointed out that Sandie herself has said time and again that she believes a person's health matters to be off limits to anyone else, so the pot-kettle-black thing is really relevant. When a poster has said that she does not want others questioning HER medical issues, than I'm going to point out that it's hypocritical for her to harp on her friend's eating habits and to wonder aloud about her friend's health.

You're not going to take personal attacks? Who the hell died and left you in charge of the forum, eh? Oh yeah, you sit in judgment of others but far be it for anyone to call attention to your behavior, eh? Again, pot, meet kettle. Perhaps, if you can't take the heat, maybe you need to get outta the kitchen.

You are correct, I don't know you. From what I have read on this board, I wouldn't want to know you out there in the "real world". I only know your words and behavior. Words that I don't care for. So if disagreeing with those words is personal, so be it. I stand by what I said. Seems to me I hit a nerve. Good.

I apologize to Sandie for derailing her thread. I'm out.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

No apology necessary Donna. :)

[Shosh]

I have wondered what the implications are for bypass patients that eat in a way that is contra indicated for their surgery.

If the patient overeats or eats the wrong food, will that cause the stomach to stretch and will that in turn damage the re routed digestive system?

In regards to excessive consumption of sugars etc, well that has implications for us all, wls or not. As well as the possibility of diabetes, oral caries and the like, there is some suggestion now that it may contribute to cancers also.

Sorry ladies I am terrible with my actual medical sources. I just often peruse medical type articles and remember various points from what I have read.

I wonder how much success surgeons are having reversing the gastric bypass in patients that feel that they need that reversal for whatever reason?

[Miss Vickie]

I have wondered what the implications are for bypass patients that eat in a way that is contra indicated for their surgery.

If the patient overeats or eats the wrong food, will that cause the stomach to stretch and will that in turn damage the re routed digestive system?

Theoretically, overeating will stretch the stomach. However, they're finding more and more that the stomach re-grows on its own, that the intestines also will either grow longer or the grooves in the intestines that hold the bacteria that break down our food grow deeper and more numerous, regardless of how the person eats. The body will try to heal itself, to return to what is normal for it, even if the extra weight was causing harm. I'm sure overeating doesn't help, but in most people it will happen regardless.

In regards to excessive consumption of sugars etc, well that has implications for us all, wls or not. As well as the possibility of diabetes, oral caries and the like, there is some suggestion now that it may contribute to cancers also.

True but for the WLS patient it's that much worse. Because we are subject to more wild fluctuations in blood sugars, unrestricted carbohydrate intake is even worse for us because the buffering system of our GI tract is gone to varying degrees, depending on the surgery.

I wonder how much success surgeons are having reversing the gastric bypass in patients that feel that they need that reversal for whatever reason?

It's my understanding that it's both VERY rare and VERY unsuccessful. :( I knew a lady who essentially starved almost to death until she developed Stage 4 breast cancer and died. She was in liver failure and nearly died many times and I have to wonder if her malnutrition caused the cancer that eventually cost her her life.

[Shosh]

Vickie given that reversal of the bypass is rare and nearly impossible do you ever fear that should something go wrong there is nothing that you can do?

I really admire those that have taken the brave step to have this done, because I myself would not have chosen a surgery that cannot be reversed.
I am not brave enough to make a decision of that magnitude.

Even the decision to have a lap band was huge for me. I remember that I could not stop crying the evening before surgery because I was scared.

I understand that we are all in different circumstances in terms of how overweight we are and availabilty of particular surgeries etc.



I hope that as time passes we will see newer and improved surgical techniques and newer devices that eliminate all of the current problematic effects of surgery and eating/absorption issues.

I will have my lap band removed if and when newer technology becomes available down the track. My surgeon said that is a possiblity in time.

[Friday]

My first post was deleted but I'll still say this since they left in your quote LoveBHMS. You've made it quite clear that you're a fat bashing, fat hating, back biting troll. All the other trolls I've seen post here have been banned, permanently. I think wondering why you haven't been banned permanently is a legitimate question.

[LoveBHMS]

Even I with my ostensible lack of grace and class had the sense to tap out of this fight. If you have issues with my non-banning, take them up in private with Conrad as he is the ONLY person who makes those choices.

This is a message board, it's not Tri Delt or a country club. There are lots of venues where you can choose with whom you'll associate but this isn't one of them. If you were hosting a private bash or meetup, you'd not invite me and that would be reasonable. But here you can't do that. Nothing possitive or productive is going to come from continually bringing up an issue that has been settled. It hasn't been settled to your liking, but it's been settled.

My first post was deleted but I'll still say this since they left in your quote LoveBHMS. You've made it quite clear that you're a fat bashing, fat hating, back biting troll. All the other trolls I've seen post here have been banned, permanently. I think wondering why you haven't been banned permanently is a legitimate question.

[TraciJo67]

Even I with my ostensible lack of grace and class had the sense to tap out of this fight.

... and yet, here you are, tapping in.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

I don't get who you think you are??? I have done my best to just ignore you - but you won't let me. You come into a thread I started to get information to help someone I love, you attack me without provocation, you then attack other women I care about and who have been a part of this community for years, and you have the balls to be arrogant and snub your nose at all of us and act as if You own this place. Who the hell do you think you are???

You act like a child gossiping about us behind our backs saying how much you are disgusted by us fat women, and yet here you are. You attack people over and over and are arrogant in implying you belong here even tho we fat women disgust you, and yet here you are. You completely ignore my request to leave my thread knowing you derailed it, accuse others of keeping the fight going, and yet here you are.

You need to get out of my thread. Leave Dimensions and - if you cannot do that, then you need to be banned. I'm sick to death of your attitude and knowing that you come here to see the "freak show" you think we are.

I am going to ask the Mods to please do not close this thread - but removal of LBHM posts would be nice. Thank you.



Even I with my ostensible lack of grace and class had the sense to tap out of this fight. If you have issues with my non-banning, take them up in private with Conrad as he is the ONLY person who makes those choices.

This is a message board, it's not Tri Delt or a country club. There are lots of venues where you can choose with whom you'll associate but this isn't one of them. If you were hosting a private bash or meetup, you'd not invite me and that would be reasonable. But here you can't do that. Nothing possitive or productive is going to come from continually bringing up an issue that has been settled. It hasn't been settled to your liking, but it's been settled.

[SamanthaNY]

http://i.pbase.com/o4/97/388497/1/64021719.CHPTbjAb.applause.gif

[SamanthaNY]

So nice, I hadda post it twice? Dangit.

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/6928/applausess0.gif

Now stay this time, stoopit gif.

[SparkGirl]

I've been researching WLS since 2002 (I could never quite bring myself to do it). In the countless meetings I've had about the surgery and recovery, they drilled into us the importance of going to the support meetings. Every hospital has a WLS program so I would imagine they all have the support meetings as well. I know that they were very beneficial to the people that were considering the surgery and have had the surgery as well. Maybe she could try that out and gain some support for issues she might be facing that are causing her to eat the way she is. I can't imagine how hard it must be for her and maybe she just needs to talk to some people that are going through the same things that she is and learning how they are coping. It's probably a little like the premise for AA, and hey, if it works for them, maybe it could work for her too. Just my 2 cents :), because I feel badly when I hear about someone who is suffering that went through all that surgery and struggle, only to gain all the weight back.

[JoyJoy]

Even I with my ostensible lack of grace and class had the sense to tap out of this fight. If you have issues with my non-banning, take them up in private with Conrad as he is the ONLY person who makes those choices.

This is a message board, it's not Tri Delt or a country club. There are lots of venues where you can choose with whom you'll associate but this isn't one of them. If you were hosting a private bash or meetup, you'd not invite me and that would be reasonable. But here you can't do that. Nothing possitive or productive is going to come from continually bringing up an issue that has been settled. It hasn't been settled to your liking, but it's been settled.
It's been settled by those in charge, but to those of us whom you offended, it will not be settled as long as you're still posting here.

You're right, it's not an exclusive club and you can post as you please...and I think, most of the time, we've all held our tongues and let you do so. But when you stand up and start calling out others for what you perceive as bad behavior, don't expect people to remain silent about it. That's the price you pay and you'll just have to live with it, because it's highly unlikely you'll be able to live down what happened. We may have to accept you being here, but we don't have to let you get away with being a hypocrite. If you don't like being called down, then put more thought into what you post, because you certainly didn't need to respond in this thread the way you did.

[mergirl]

If you don't like being called down, then put more thought into what you post, because you certainly didn't need to respond in this thread the way you did.

I think thats pretty much the crux of the matter. Sandi was asking for help and advice for someone she loves and is worried about. This really isnt the time to stick the knife in, no matter how much of a problem you have with someone. And sandi, i hope your friend gets the help she needs, by the sounds of it perhaps a referal to a C.B T might help.

[Dromond]

Theoretically, overeating will stretch the stomach. However, they're finding more and more that the stomach re-grows on its own, that the intestines also will either grow longer or the grooves in the intestines that hold the bacteria that break down our food grow deeper and more numerous, regardless of how the person eats. The body will try to heal itself, to return to what is normal for it, even if the extra weight was causing harm. I'm sure overeating doesn't help, but in most people it will happen regardless.

There is a certain amount of expansion in the stomach pouch that happens naturally. Constant overeating can indeed have a stretching effect, though the amount of stretch isn't much. One thing that does not stretch out the stomach is drinking carbonated beverages. You should not drink them for six months post op to be sure your stomach has healed (carbonic acid is not good for tender tummies).

True but for the WLS patient it's that much worse. Because we are subject to more wild fluctuations in blood sugars, unrestricted carbohydrate intake is even worse for us because the buffering system of our GI tract is gone to varying degrees, depending on the surgery.

Even with my VSG, the most conservative of the surgeries after lap band, I get blood sugar crashes if I'm not careful. It's a balancing act to be sure.

It's my understanding that it's both VERY rare and VERY unsuccessful. :( I knew a lady who essentially starved almost to death until she developed Stage 4 breast cancer and died. She was in liver failure and nearly died many times and I have to wonder if her malnutrition caused the cancer that eventually cost her her life.

Some surgeries are flat out impossible to reverse. There is no way to give the 80% of my stomach back that was taken out. Doctors usually will not consider reversal unless there is an emergent need to try.

[Tooz]

My first post was deleted but I'll still say this since they left in your quote LoveBHMS. You've made it quite clear that you're a fat bashing, fat hating, back biting troll. All the other trolls I've seen post here have been banned, permanently. I think wondering why you haven't been banned permanently is a legitimate question.

...Because she's not a troll?

I respect you and enjoy your posts, Friday, but here I must stand in opposition. There is a difference between past mistakes and being a troll.

[elle camino]

Thank you Donna. After her totally classless display earlier this year I am totally at a loss as to why LoveBHMS ever had her posting rights restored. She obviously is not a proponent of size acceptance and in fact hates fat women with a passion.
Friday you know i dig you, and not to get into a whole thing about this all over again, but that is just...ridiculous. the damn girl made a stupid mistake forever ago, apologized copiously, she CLEARLY does not hate fat women as she's got scads of fatgirl friends around here and in real life (and speaking for the ones around here - we're not idiots, and as such we're not going to be friends with someone who hates us).
this neverending vendetta is just...i don't get it.
i mean why do you guys seem to WANT her to hate fat women? like wouldn't it actually be welcome news to hear (over and over) that she doesn't? why all this resistance to the idea of someone NOT hating you?
it's just confusing to me. like...is this how you act in real life when people sincerely fuck up, and then sincerely apologize? oy.

anyways on with the thread.

[Friday]

Sorry Elle, I disagree. She makes her disdain for fat women pretty evident every time she makes one of her snide posts for one thing and most important? Do you really believe that she no longer thinks that 'watching fat women eat makes her sick'? The very fact that she could come here and post shit like that behind our backs makes it impossible for me to believe that she suddenly had some kind of epiphany. Saying your sorry doesn't mean that the wrong things you did go away, especially when you're still being the same back biting lowlife.

Y'all will find out soon enough when she flashes her true colors bright and clear again. Subtle isn't her strong point so it won't take long.

[olwen]

Okay, enough. This is becoming tiresome. She fucked up, she apologized, and some people haven't accepted it. Okay fine, but man, I'm sick of reading about it. Yeah I could have choosen to not read this thread, but somehow the thread title didn't suggest the actual discussion going on. Should this crop up in future threads, I'd say the same thing again. I'm just tired of it. If her presence pisses people off that badly, then please please please please for the love of all that is holy use the *ignore feature.* I'm not trying to offend anyone here, I'm just sick of the bruhaha. That's all I have to say about that.

As for the original question Sandie, after my best friend had her lap band surgery I noticed she wasn't always doing all the things the doctor's told her to do. A couple of times she passed out in public from not eating enough. So after that I started getting on her to take her vitamins and eat slowly and blah blah blah. I just told her I didn't want to have to visit her in the hospital because she wasn't being careful. I kept urging her to go to the group therapy for the surgery but she didn't want to so I stopped suggesting it.

I think maybe your friend will keep doing what she's doing until something bad happens and she has to stay in hospital. I don't know that there's anything you can do, other than continue to suggest she talk to a doctor if she's having trouble digesting proteins and vegetables. If she doesn't want to then there's nothing you *can* do, other than just remind her that you're there for her if she wants to talk to you.

[TraciJo67]

Okay, enough. This is becoming tiresome. She fucked up, she apologized, and some people haven't accepted it. Okay fine, but man, I'm sick of reading about it. Yeah I could have choosen to not read this thread, but somehow the thread title didn't suggest the actual discussion going on. Should this crop up in future threads, I'd say the same thing again. I'm just tired of it. If her presence pisses people off that badly, then please please please please for the love of all that is holy use the *ignore feature.* I'm not trying to offend anyone here, I'm just sick of the bruhaha. That's all I have to say about that.




I don't care about any of that. People make mistakes. Maybe they learn and grow from them. Maybe not. It's not my place to judge her intent.

But I damn sure don't want her participating in a thread about WLS, or chiming in at all on issues related to health and size. She participates in many other areas of the board without so much as a peep from anyone else. She comes here, she's going to get her wrist cyber-slapped, or worse. That is a reality that she *is* going to have to deal with (and I think she has).

You don't get to decide how other people are going to react (nor do I). I'd offer you the same advise that you've given to the rest of us. If it bothers you this much (where you feel compelled to chime in): Ignore, ignore, ignore. Or deal with the fact that people are going to disagree, and are going to express that. Really, these are the only options open to all of us. It's a message board.

[olwen]

I don't care about any of that. People make mistakes. Maybe they learn and grow from them. Maybe not. It's not my place to judge her intent.

But I damn sure don't want her participating in a thread about WLS, or chiming in at all on issues related to health and size. She participates in many other areas of the board without so much as a peep from anyone else. She comes here, she's going to get her wrist cyber-slapped, or worse. That is a reality that she *is* going to have to deal with (and I think she has).

You don't get to decide how other people are going to react (nor do I). I'd offer you the same advise that you've given to the rest of us. If it bothers you this much (where you feel compelled to chime in): Ignore, ignore, ignore. Or deal with the fact that people are going to disagree, and are going to express that. Really, these are the only options open to all of us. It's a message board.

Yeah and that's the problem. If the anger and snark spill onto other boards and other threads....it would be hard to ignore. Sigh...okay, I'm keeping my mouth shut about it from now on. I just don't have the energy to keep up with all of it.

[TraciJo67]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say that I haven't taken any gratuitous swipes at her, nor do I plan to. I didn't appreciate her involvement in this thread. I never will. I don't want to go into all the reasons why ... come on, we already know them. I will just say that my reaction to her was based only on her participation here.

And yeah, I know ... I don't get to decide where she posts. But then, she also cannot control how other people (not just myself) are going to react to that.

I don't know if you registered who has participated in this thread. Myself aside (we all know I've been in a 'few' spectacular battles here 'n there) ... do most of these participants seem the type who would take a swipe just for the sake of ... taking a swipe? That's a rhetorical question, doesn't require an answer :D Just food for thought.

[olwen]

Sigh...I'm well aware of what happened. I'm just tired of hearing about it. Period.

[TraciJo67]

Sigh...I'm well aware of what happened. I'm just tired of hearing about it. Period.

Well, Olwen ... there *is* a special haggis thread. With pictures. And poems. And I've even gotten some haggis REP :D

[BigBeautifulMe]

Sigh...I'm well aware of what happened. I'm just tired of hearing about it. Period.
You know I love you, Olwen. But those of us most closely involved are reminded of it every time we see her post. The ignore feature allows you to miss what the person posted...but not the fact that they posted, and where, and on what topic.

[Shosh]

Well I was not going to comment on this because I like all of the parties involved here. I like my girls here on this thread, and L has also been a friend to me here when I have struggled with my physical condition given she had a former partner with the condition.
It is so hard because I can see where my WLS girls and other girls are coming from.
As a fat woman I had every kind of abuse hurled at me that you can imagine, and others looked at me with disgust. It has really scarred me emotionally, so ladies I do know where you are coming from because I have lived it.
I do not know how to feel, or what to say here. Yes L royally F%$#@d up with her comments, but maybe she is truely sorry for them and would like to be forgiven.
That is all I will say. I just admire you all so much, and have so much respect for you all. I feel very comfortable here, like it is a little cocoon where we can all feel safe from the abuse of the outside world.

I am very grateful that this place exists.

[Shosh]

Or maybe I am just stupid and a soft touch. It could be that.

[BigBeautifulMe]

Shoshie, it will NEVER be that. I don't agree with you in this instance, but you're a good-hearted person.

[TraciJo67]

Or maybe I am just stupid and a soft touch. It could be that.

No, Susannah. I agree with you. I think the fact that she's still posting at Dims means something in itself. And obviously, her comments haven't alienated everyone. I never did like the fact of how those remarks were leaked out. I believe that most of us would be mortified if some comments that *we've* made to friends were then shared with everyone else.

I know that some people will never forgive or forget. That is their choice, and I respect it.

As for myself, I just don't want to see her posting in a forum about health and weight loss surgery issues. She has things of value to contribute elsewhere, but not here. And given her silence (despite continued discussion in this thread) I think she knows that. I respect her restraint. It would be very, very difficult for me to stop myself from chiming in and defending my position. OK, impossible. Downright freakin' impossible.

[Webmaster]

... It would be very, very difficult for me to stop myself from chiming in and defending my position. OK, impossible. Downright freakin' impossible....

Yup, that's you. ;)

[MisticalMisty]

Last week I reverted to my old coping mechanism of eating. I had the Fraxel laser on my face, and I was in a world of pain, so I decided that I needed an icecream to sooth myself. I am not joking either at all, I went and had an icecream, and I could feel the stress and tension leaving my body as I was eating it.
My first thought was that I had been through a painful experience and I needed comfort.
The more we change,the more we stay the same.

There's actually a bio-chemical reason we crave carbs and sweets when we are stressed or need comfort. Those items contain seratonin..and seratonin makes us feel better.

[Surlysomething]

...Because she's not a troll?

I respect you and enjoy your posts, Friday, but here I must stand in opposition. There is a difference between past mistakes and being a troll.


Exactly.

And the whole debacle with her was freakin' hearsay. I'm not down with that AT ALL.

Move along, ladies.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

OK Ladies? Please take this discussion elsewhere. I didn't want this to continue. And it had stopped. If you want to argue over this start your own thread. OK? :)

And for the record, until you have been the subject of vicious gossip - you have no idea how it hurts. Especially coming from someone you trusted. Sometimes you can't forgive or forget that shit.

[mossystate]

Ok, this is turning into saint city, over stuff that is basically about people taking sides, due to what some get from others...play others...whatever. ..groovy...wonderful....it's just now not going to be anything more than personal at this point. Has nothing to do with being a ' good ' person or a ' bad ' person, as good people tend to not pick and choose the bigotry they rally against. Again, we all deal from a deck of very personal cards.

There was a real issue, and now that has been lost or settled, in terms of who gets to stay and who has to leave. I think most know that there is some real stink to having certain people posting places where they have shown real disdain. It's more than tough to forget, but...again...I think that has been settled. Now it is down to the ignore feature...or using your words and make it where some won't want to post in some areas, just from lack of interest in what they are saying.

Or...whatever.

[Shosh]

There's actually a bio-chemical reason we crave carbs and sweets when we are stressed or need comfort. Those items contain seratonin..and seratonin makes us feel better.

Yes that is true. Endorphins are another feel good brain chemical.

I am having another laser treatment this week, so I am sure that I will need another icecream to sooth the pain.:D

[Miss Vickie]

Yes that is true. Endorphins are another feel good brain chemical.

I am having another laser treatment this week, so I am sure that I will need another icecream to sooth the pain.:D

What are you getting laser treatments for, Shosh? Is this some sort of new MS treatment? I'm possibly going to have to get a laser treatment to get rid of some spider veins on my face and I'm skeered. :eek: We've done just about everything we can other than laser to get rid of them but they're stubborn. She's doing to try two more things with her "big mean machine" *gulp* but if that doesn't get rid of them it's laser time. Does it really hurt a lot?

[Sandie_Zitkus]

What are you getting laser treatments for, Shosh? Is this some sort of new MS treatment? I'm possibly going to have to get a laser treatment to get rid of some spider veins on my face and I'm skeered. :eek: We've done just about everything we can other than laser to get rid of them but they're stubborn. She's doing to try two more things with her "big mean machine" *gulp* but if that doesn't get rid of them it's laser time. Does it really hurt a lot?


Vickie - I had laser hair removal on my face a few years ago. IT HURT LIKE A MO-FO!! But the results were worth it. Good luck, and bring a stick to bite down on. LOL

[Miss Vickie]

Vickie - I had laser hair removal on my face a few years ago. IT HURT LIKE A MO-FO!! But the results were worth it. Good luck, and bring a stick to bite down on. LOL

LOL. Thanks, Sandie. I'm hoping this will work, because everything else has only helped a little. Fortunately, the areas are teeny tiny so it won't be a prolonged agony but still -- it's not something I look forward to.

[Tooz]

You know I love you, Olwen. But those of us most closely involved are reminded of it every time we see her post. The ignore feature allows you to miss what the person posted...but not the fact that they posted, and where, and on what topic.


Guess what? Life is TOUGH. Move on-- only the strong thrive. If you can't get past it, that is no reason to throw a tantrum every time someone posts. It puts you on the level that they were/are on.

Exactly.

And the whole debacle with her was freakin' hearsay. I'm not down with that AT ALL.

Move along, ladies.

Hollllllaaaaaaaa.

[Tooz]

Vickie - I had laser hair removal on my face a few years ago. IT HURT LIKE A MO-FO!! But the results were worth it. Good luck, and bring a stick to bite down on. LOL

I hear it hurts.


I still want it though! Italian doom.

[thatgirl08]

Vickie - I had laser hair removal on my face a few years ago. IT HURT LIKE A MO-FO!! But the results were worth it. Good luck, and bring a stick to bite down on. LOL

I hear it hurts.


I still want it though! Italian doom.

I've had laser hair removal, and I'm a bit of a wimp and I didn't think it was too bad. I've gotten it done at two different places, and at the first place it hurt more than at the second because at the second they put that gel is used for ultrasounds on it first. I mean, it's a little zap but it's not like unbearable, in my opinion. It's so worth it though. Ditto on the Italian doom.

[BigBeautifulMe]

Guess what? Life is TOUGH. Move on-- only the strong thrive. If you can't get past it, that is no reason to throw a tantrum every time someone posts. It puts you on the level that they were/are on.



Hollllllaaaaaaaa.

You and I have very different definitions of the word tantrum, apparently. You and I have managed to coexist peacefully by wholly ignoring each other - be good enough to continue that, please.

[Shosh]

Guess what? Life is TOUGH. Move on-- only the strong thrive. If you can't get past it, that is no reason to throw a tantrum every time someone posts. It puts you on the level that they were/are on.



Hollllllaaaaaaaa.

Yes life certainly is tough, but it is always nice to have manners and show courteousy towards others.

I did not see that Ginny was throwing a tantrum at all. She was just explaining how she felt about it, and that is reasonable.

There is no need to come in like a steamroller here.

Sorry Sandie, We are doing our best to drop this, but it keeps getting dredged up by others.

I do apologize.

[Shosh]

What are you getting laser treatments for, Shosh? Is this some sort of new MS treatment? I'm possibly going to have to get a laser treatment to get rid of some spider veins on my face and I'm skeered. :eek: We've done just about everything we can other than laser to get rid of them but they're stubborn. She's doing to try two more things with her "big mean machine" *gulp* but if that doesn't get rid of them it's laser time. Does it really hurt a lot?

The fraxel laser is a treatment for the face, hands, chest etc. It is not a treatment for Mutiple Sclerosis.

www.fraxel.com

I am having it on my forehead and cheeks only, so the cost is greatly reduced per treatment. My family is paying for it.

I am going to have my 4th treatment tomorrow. I will have five altogether.

The Fraxel rejuvenates the skin. Over the years the sun can cause damage to it. It is also good for acne scars and melasma etc.

I am having it as my skin tone is uneven and I want to rejuvenate my skin and be able to wear very little makeup.

I have a few marks on my skin also.

I have noticed the difference after the 3rd treatment. My skin is looking very good. It is glowing.
I do not believe peels and micro
dermabrasion work. One needs something more aggressive to get excellant results.
If you are willing to suck up the pain, and it is painful, and you are willing to pay for it, it does deliver amazing results.

Sorry Sandie once again. Back to the topic at hand. Just answering Vickie's question.

[Miss Vickie]

The fraxel laser is a treatment for the face, hands, chest etc. It is not a treatment for Mutiple Sclerosis.

www.fraxel.com

I am having it on my forehead and cheeks only, so the cost is greatly reduced per treatment. My family is paying for it.

I am going to have my 4th treatment tomorrow. I will have five altogether.

The Fraxel rejuvenates the skin. Over the years the sun can cause damage to it. It is also good for acne scars and melasma etc.

I am having it as my skin tone is uneven and I want to rejuvenate my skin and be able to wear very little makeup.

I have a few marks on my skin also.

I have noticed the difference after the 3rd treatment. My skin is looking very good. It is glowing.
I do not believe peels and micro
dermabrasion work. One needs something more aggressive to get excellant results.
If you are willing to suck up the pain, and it is painful, and you are willing to pay for it, it does deliver amazing results.

Sorry Sandie once again. Back to the topic at hand. Just answering Vickie's question.

/ more off topic (sorry Sandie)

Thanks, Shosh. I'm having the IPL done and it's really been great but I have stubborn veins that don't wanna play ball so it's going to require laser if I'm serious about getting rid of them. The IPL has worked great to get rid of the roseacea. I'm VERY pleased.

I'm mid-peel right now just to repair some of my texture issues from some cold and wind damage. I agree that on their own they don't work but in conjunction with the other treatments, my skin lady seems to think it will improve things. Or at least I hope so since I look like a Gila Monster. ;)

[Orchid]

there was some time ago a tv documentary in Belgium I only watched part of it so the bit I saw was about belgian lady who had WLS and now unable to eat normal variety of foods was like only eating icecream and sweets she gained lots of weight back and the voiceover said her small kids like toddlers were copying her way of eating well seeing this I switched channels
I seldom watch WLS tv not for me.

[William]

Hi Friday

I am firmly on the side of anti-WLS.

I just think that your comment to BHM is weak because there are plenty of Male FAs here who have no use for Fat Acceptance beyond how it aids their progress in Fat Admiration. If you question LovesBHM Fat Acceptance stance then there is a list of hundreds of people that need your attention.

Male FAs are more likely to be called out for being bad Admirers than their lack of Fat Acceptance.

William (Please don't kill the messenger :) )





Thank you Donna. After her totally classless display earlier this year I am totally at a loss as to why LoveBHMS ever had her posting rights restored. She obviously is not a proponent of size acceptance and in fact hates fat women with a passion. Makes no sense for her to be here.

[steely]

Food is like any other addiction.It's like people with lung cancer who take off their oxygen to have a smoke.People who still drink even with death imminent.I understand this completely having just been diagnosed with diabetes.If I knew that it would kill me at one time I would continue to live the way I always have.It won't though.It'll take me a toe at a time,destroy my sight,destroy my kidneys and I'll end up in a wheel chair and then dead.

It depends on how bad you want it.Do you want to live or do you want to let it go.It all depends on your friend.You can try to be as supportive as you can.If she's like me,to the detriment of my own self,I will not listen to anyone.It is a major character flaw.This diagnosis has put me on my own WLS.I have to do it or die.

Good luck to you and your friend.I hope that things will work out in time.:)

[Shosh]

Food is like any other addiction.It's like people with lung cancer who take off their oxygen to have a smoke.People who still drink even with death imminent.I understand this completely having just been diagnosed with diabetes.If I knew that it would kill me at one time I would continue to live the way I always have.It won't though.It'll take me a toe at a time,destroy my sight,destroy my kidneys and I'll end up in a wheel chair and then dead.

It depends on how bad you want it.Do you want to live or do you want to let it go.It all depends on your friend.You can try to be as supportive as you can.If she's like me,to the detriment of my own self,I will not listen to anyone.It is a major character flaw.This diagnosis has put me on my own WLS.I have to do it or die.

Good luck to you and your friend.I hope that things will work out in time.:)

Gosh I am sorry to hear that you have been diagnosed with diabetes Steely.

Sending you a big hug.

[steely]

Gosh I am sorry to hear that you have been diagnosed with diabetes Steely.

Sending you a big hug.

Thanks Shosh,
It's not that big of a deal.I just have to watch and monitor everything that goes in my mouth.Oh,and give up almost every food I love.:p

[Shosh]

Thanks Shosh,
It's not that big of a deal.I just have to watch and monitor everything that goes in my mouth.Oh,and give up almost every food I love.:p

Oh man. I hate having to give up food that I love.:rolleyes::p

I would have cake for breakfast, lunch, and dinner if I could.:D

:kiss2:

[Brandi]

I'm slowly learning about WLS, so everyone if I am wrong...please point it out.

I understand that refined sugar is definitely a no no after WLS, but natural sugars are ok, if your body can handle it.

Sandi, have you thought of inviting your friend over and both of you making dinner together? You keeping in mind what she enjoyed while losing her weight, and make it together? Dessert being a homemade sorbet (any frozen fruit with no sugar added) popped in your blender with some natural orange juice and popping a no sugar added low fat vanilla yogurt in the freezer in the morning, and give a scoop of sorbet beside the scoop of frozen vanilla yogurt.

I could be way off, but if I was in her situation, a friend who went out of their way to cook with me, would definitely make me feel more open to talk, rather than someone telling/advising me that I'm making the wrong choices.

If she doesn't open up, you know at least ONE thing (which is better than nothing) that she ate a healthy meal, and Sandi that one thing just may make her remember when she was eating healthier, how much better she was feeling.

Just my 2 cents. :)