In Betweenies Unite!

[ashmamma84]

Ever felt like you were too fat for the skinnies and too skinny for the fatties? Quite the conundrum, eh? Well let's discuss how we can learn to tune out those conflicting/maddening messages and be comfortable in our smaller or midsize bodies. How do you respond to hurtful comments from either side? And also, what do you think smaller and midsize women can do to strengthen relationships with other women (ssbbw, specifically)? What do you think we can work on? What do you think we can learn?

Come one, come all! I know other midsize sisters are in the lurk - don't be afraid...we don't bite. Much :D.

[Fascinita]

I'll throw in my hat here.

At 275 lb (about my highest ever), I have to say that growing larger definitely has helped solidify my fat identity. When I was closer to 200, about 7 years ago, I think I always felt like there was a chance I would one day be "thin" again-- my lowest adult weight was 145, when I was 21 (and I really did look think then, compared to now... except that my butt was always broad and my boobs large.)

Nowadays I identify fully as fat. I haven't experienced much flack for "not being fat enough," though I know that some women have. Mostly I attritbute this to my not paying much attention at all to negative messages about my body, in my adult years. I let them slide off me now. I wish I'd had this ability when I was younger. The "you're too fat" comments certainly caused a world of angst for me in my teens.

I love being my size, I have to say. I think it's perfect for me. Only I need to get back to doing some yoga or something, for the sake of movement and flexibility.

[Suze]

yuuhuu!
I'm here, representing and all that :happy:

(I'll come back and post more later, but I have to get some sleep!)

[Cors]

Great thread, Ashmamma! I hope to see it take off. ;)

I am not a BBW but I feel caught between cultures. Too fat in Asia, too thin in the Western world but I usually have a fat identity because I spent most of my life feeling that way. I suck at dealing with mixed messages - I usually just end up deliberately gaining or losing weight when I have to travel. Not healthy and it doesn't even cushion the blow that much since I will always encounter people who think one way or the other. Not caring is the only way to go, but I am not there yet and admire those of you who are.

I think that bigger women in particular should not trivialise a smaller woman's experience, no matter how absurd it may seem unless you know the full story. Comparisons are not always useful as everyone is different. Some bigger women will feel insulted if a smaller woman insinuates that her experience is the same as what the bigger woman experiences, especially if the bigger woman did not share her experience at a similar size and smaller women could alleviate this by disclaiming that they are in no way implying that their experiences are the same.

[Tracii]

I do feel inbetween here as well but I can deal with it.
I'm like Motel 6 more than some less than the others but I will leave the light on for you!!:D

[BubbleButtBabe]

I'll have to think about this one and get back to you on it..I have been a skinny woman for awhile but I have also been a BBW for a while so I have been down both sides of this street..

[comaseason]

I'd definitely say I'm an inbetweeny. I'm 5'3 and about 220 and I have friends who are larger than me who always say... "You think that's fat! That's not fat! This is fat!" I have also had long talks with these friends to let them know... umm yea, what you just said - that can be a very invalidating statement. I suppose they're just lucky I'm so well adjusted.;)

But I do believe my experiences are that of a fat person, and you don't have to be a certain size to have had them. I have been shunned by my family, had judgments made about my character and been made to feel like I'm less of a person because of my fatness. I have longed for the days of just simply being overweight like I was in my late teens and early 20's. Oh to be 180 lbs again!

Wonderful topic!

[Tau]

I confess to being massively confused. Firstly, how do you know what you are or where you fit? What is supersized? What is midsized? And why on earth is it felt that one fat experience is more intense or whatever than another fat experience. Don't we all have something to learn from each? What context's are we working from here? I know that in my country I am considered very fat but am i considered super sized on this site? Or am i midsized? :confused:

[littlefairywren]

I am confused too. I am just under 5" 1 and weigh 300. I get contradicting thoughts from both sides.:doh:

[Tania]

I've ridden the cusp of super-sizedom. I've also worn size six.

Nowadays, some people tell me that I look "average." But honestly? You can't get a real sense of size with tall-person proportions going on. I may not have visible, pronounced bulges, but I still have 52+ inch hips, a chin-waddle, and chicken skin sag. I'm too heavy for the duty rating posted on my attic ladder, I can't shop in most straight-size stores, and occasionally my hips get caught in armed chairs.

I try to be honest about my size and weight so people can get a realistic sense of what 220-225 pounds and a size 18/20 butt can look like. Is it "fat"? Maybe not, strictly speaking. But it's not average, either. On one hand, the number nazis need to know that you can approach conventional beauty at big sizes and at weights that are traditionally considered extreme (people lie about size/weight all the time, which leads us to believe that we're fat mutants...when we're not). On the other hand, some people need to understand that just because someone doesn't look "fat" to them that they aren't immune to size constraints.

[thatgirl08]

I'm 5'7" 350.. clearly not midsize.. so I'm just going to post one thing and then I'll stay out of this thread. I just want to say that I think it's disgusting that anyone would try to invalidate someone's fat experience by saying they aren't fat enough. The last thing we need on this board or in this community is to tell another woman that she isn't fat enough. We hear enough bs about our bodies on a daily basis without having to invalidate each other here. That is all.

[Tooz]

I would say I am between "in-between" and "supersize." I do not identify as supersize, and I don't think I actually am...I think there are limbo areas all over the weight spectrum. The Opression Olympics (http://www.o-dub.com/weblog/2004/02/one-more-thing-about-oppression.html) (I can't find the link I was initially looking for which was directly related to fats and fatter fats, but this'll do) can run rampant with women, sometimes with the larger discrediting the struggles of smaller women because it MUST be easier because they weigh less. We all have our own battles.

Frankly, sometimes the sexual ideals expressed within this community are really ace at making me feel inadequate. I honestly get the feeling that most just want a 500-pound hourglass- or pear-shaped woman (with a comparatively tiny stomach). Even though I am taken, it still affects me somehow.

At bashes, I have seen smaller women sneer at larger women, as well as larger women sneer at smaller women. I know I have said this before, but I think we're all in the same boat one way or another so we should try to strive for solidarity.

[fatgirlflyin]

Frankly, sometimes the sexual ideals expressed within this community are really ace at making me feel inadequate. I honestly get the feeling that most just want a 500-pound hourglass- or pear-shaped woman (with a comparatively tiny stomach). Even though I am taken, it still affects me somehow.


I feel this way too! I'm in a committed relationship as well, and my s/o actually finds that body type extremely attractive; he likes the girls with the big booties, and I have no booty.

[ashmamma84]

I would say I am between "in-between" and "supersize." I do not identify as supersize, and I don't think I actually am...I think there are limbo areas all over the weight spectrum. The Opression Olympics (http://www.o-dub.com/weblog/2004/02/one-more-thing-about-oppression.html) (I can't find the link I was initially looking for which was directly related to fats and fatter fats, but this'll do) can run rampant with women, sometimes with the larger discrediting the struggles of smaller women because it MUST be easier because they weigh less. We all have our own battles.

Frankly, sometimes the sexual ideals expressed within this community are really ace at making me feel inadequate. I honestly get the feeling that most just want a 500-pound hourglass- or pear-shaped woman (with a comparatively tiny stomach). Even though I am taken, it still affects me somehow.

At bashes, I have seen smaller women sneer at larger women, as well as larger women sneer at smaller women. I know I have said this before, but I think we're all in the same boat one way or another so we should try to strive for solidarity.

This is part of the reason why I made the thread. I get so tired of the "she's not even that big shit." It gets old, but what's even more maddening is that sometimes, frankly, I feel because I'm not supersize if I happen to feel a certain way about an issue, it's taken as callous simply because of who its coming from. I guess I'm wondering - where is the love? Where is the spirit of sisterhood? We all have issues and to assume smaller/midsize bbws don't have them is far, FAR off.

ps - I have heard from other women that pear and hourglass women have it "easier" in terms of feeling desirable by FA's or whatever. Maybe I just think all women are beautiful in their own way (pear, apple, hourglass, square, hexagon, and other silliness) - there are women on this board and the world over with flat asses and big tummies that are in relationships (committed, married, etc). Maybe I see things differently because I'm an hourglass shape so I don't feel put out about that, however I do know how it feels to be put out about "not being big enough".

[Tooz]

This is part of the reason why I made the thread. I get so tired of the "she's not even that big shit. It gets old, but what's even more maddening is that sometimes, frankly, I feel because I'm not supersize if I happen to feel a certain way about an issue, it's taken as callous simply because of who its coming from.

ps - I have heard from other women that pear and hourglass women have it "easier" in terms of feeling desirable by FA's or whatever. Maybe I just don't see how other shapes aren't beautiful - there are women on this board and the world over with flat asses and big tummies that are in relationships (committed, married, etc). Maybe I see things differently because I'm an hourglass shape so I don't feel put out about that, however I do know how it feels to be put out about "not being big enough".

I witnessed some women in the mid-to-high 300s sneer openly and jeer at a very wide-hipped, 400+ woman at a bash once. It was maddening. I think, regardless of weight ("Why is SHE here? She's barely a size 20" to "HOW DID SHE GET OUT OF HER HOUSE?") is sickening and idiotic. We are all in this together!

Regarding body shape, I'm actually sort of hourglass. I have a big stomach, but I'm not an apple. It still offends me. I think it's the overall objectification I'm seeing that does it. I don't fault anyone for having a shape preference (me, I like 'em all ;)), but it's how it's expressed more often than not.

[ashmamma84]

I just wonder why there is so much upset and anger between the groups of fat women? And if it can be reconciled, what steps do we need to take to work towards that? Let's call a truce! Or is that wishful thinking? :D

I'm not naive; I know ALL women can be catty. Smaller bbws do it to ssbbws and ssbbws dish out the same to smaller bbws, but it just seems counterproductive to the cause (of fat girl sisterhood).

[fatgirlflyin]

I just wonder why there is so much upset and anger between the groups of fat women? And if it can be reconciled, what steps do we need to take to work towards that? Let's call a truce! Or is that wishful thinking? :D

I'm not naive; I know ALL women can be catty. Smaller bbws do it to ssbbws and ssbbws dish out the same to smaller bbws, but it just seems counterproductive to the cause (of fat girl sisterhood).

I think the problem is that there just really isn't a fat girl sisterhood. Not on any large scale at least.

[Green Eyed Fairy]

Frankly, sometimes the sexual ideals expressed within this community are really ace at making me feel inadequate. I honestly get the feeling that most just want a 500-pound hourglass- or pear-shaped woman (with a comparatively tiny stomach). Even though I am taken, it still affects me somehow.



I feel this way too! I'm in a committed relationship as well, and my s/o actually finds that body type extremely attractive; he likes the girls with the big booties, and I have no booty.

I feel this way, too. You come to the place where "big is beautiful" except if you're not XYZ big, not a certain shape or gain weight exactly where someone demands it, it's quite hurtful. If you cannot get support here- then it's probably never coming. Period.
It's depressing to read things written by men "celebrating" women of a different shape- saying things like "pear shaped women are the REAL women of the world", a thread with a guy saying that apple shaped women cannot conceive and bear children like pear shaped women (it's utter bullshit- my hips are plenty wide and I have twins- I just don't gain weight in my lower ass as quickly as my gut).
I see people here acting like kids in the candy shop- and they seem to so easily discard that which they don't find to be eye candy as trash. No sensitivity or concern- as if we are not worth the trouble of polite decency.


Reading such things and picking up such messages, not only here but other places on the net, makes me wish to be thin. I don't feel embraced but rather devalued......I have some hope of having my shape/size appreciated at a lower weight.

A great irony is that the men from my past two sexual relationships always told me how much they love "my big ass". My ass is obviously big enough for men that like thinner women but also bigger ladies. I never get that here.....never in the place where big, but only in certain places, is beautiful.

[steely]

I feel that way here too, GEF. Being apple shaped is not valued as highly as pear shaped. I don't post many pictures for that reason plus I'm married but it is a real kick to your self esteem. Especially in a size acceptance community.

Even if I were to lose weight, I'm still going to have the same body shape, no hips or bottom.

[Green Eyed Fairy]

I feel that way here too, GEF. Being apple shaped is not valued as highly as pear shaped. I don't post many pictures for that reason plus I'm married but it is a real kick to your self esteem. Especially in a size acceptance community.

Even if I were to lose weight, I'm still going to have the same body shape, no hips or bottom.


Yeah but most of the world "accepts" you more readily at a smaller size.

I have a nice shape....at a smaller size. I gain weight and I become more belly.

I have struggled a long time now not to hate my stomach. A lot of people out in the world hate it....and I come here and it's not so great either.


I feel badly about myself out in the world- I feel badly here. Adapting to the world is a much more possible endeavor than changing my shape.

[JerseyGirl07093]

I hate that anyone is made to feel 'less than' or 'not enough'. I say we are all sisters, we are all women, we are all fat. Can't we all just get along? I know I'm a lot heavier now than when I was younger but did I feel any less fat then? Heck no. There are times when I was thinner that I 'felt' even fatter than I do now. (If that makes any sense) Why any person who has been excluded or picked on, etc. because of their fat would do the same to another person is beyond me.

[Tania]

I'm beginning to realize that everybody gets the shaft in one way or another. It's part of being a girl in the world.

I often think about getting my gut-blob lipoed to accentuate my pearness. That's kind of fucked up in an ironic sort of way, but hey - just goes to show that BDD isn't just a thinnabe problem and "size acceptance" is oftentimes a cover for garden-variety misogynistic control impulses.

[Tania]

There are times when I was thinner that I 'felt' even fatter than I do now. (If that makes any sense)

Makes perfect sense. Been there, done that, bought the size-medium tshirt. To a very great extent, "fat" - for better or worse - is often a state of mind.

[Green Eyed Fairy]

I hate that anyone is made to feel 'less than' or 'not enough'. I say we are all sisters, we are all women, we are all fat. Can't we all just get along? I know I'm a lot heavier now than when I was younger but did I feel any less fat then? Heck no. There are times when I was thinner that I 'felt' even fatter than I do now. (If that makes any sense) Why any person who has been excluded or picked on, etc. because of their fat would do the same to another person is beyond me.

Yes it makes sense- I am more accepting/loving of myself now so I don't hate on my figure like I used to do in the past. I'm thinking this is what you mean.

I'm beginning to realize that everybody gets the shaft in one way or another. It's part of being a girl in the world.

I often think about getting my gut-blob lipoed to accentuate my pearness. That's kind of fucked up in an ironic sort of way, but hey - just goes to show that BDD isn't just a thinnabe problem and "size acceptance" is oftentimes a cover for garden-variety misogynistic control impulses.

I approve this post- we've all felt the big head-f*ck and pressure to meet the ideals of others. Breaking free when all you want is some understanding and a little love is the hard part.

[Fascinita]

There are times when I was thinner that I 'felt' even fatter than I do now. (If that makes any sense)

This makes absolute sense to me. I've experienced it. I felt worse about my body when I was 20 lb over what I was told was the ideal than I do now at over 100 lb over.

This points to the fact that what we know as "fat" in the popular imagination has little to do with actual fat. "Fat" is a concept that's been made monstrous and used to keep us in line. This explains why women with "5 lbs to lose" can have insanely distorted body images.

If "fat" is a state of mind that has little to do with real fat as we know and experience it, what's to prevent us from resisting the messages out there and creating our own internal acceptance?

Easier said than done, especially in a world where rejection hurts and where we are told we will always be alone if we don't comply with acceptable body measuring standards.

[steely]

Yeah but most of the world "accepts" you more readily at a smaller size.

I have a nice shape....at a smaller size. I gain weight and I become more belly.

I have struggled a long time now not to hate my stomach. A lot of people out in the world hate it....and I come here and it's not so great either.


I feel badly about myself out in the world- I feel badly here. Adapting to the world is a much more possible endeavor than changing my shape.

You have a nice shape now, you just don't see it because of the negativity directed towards you and that makes you feel bad and in turn becomes a vicious circle, which makes you feel worse.

The world is going to do what the world does and that is try to bring people down. I'm not going to change shape, 3 sisters and a grandmother all the same. I've got to learn to live with it and let the rest go. It will drive you crazy if you let it and so will the world. You can't hate part of yourself without it spilling over.

I'm twice your size and not always happy with my body but I throw my head up and tell myself I'm just as good as anyone else and if other people have a problem, it's their problem.

This probably hasn't helped at all but I see a smart, funny, capable, confidant beautiful woman. It would be the same no matter what shape you have. You remember that because I know I'm not the only one that thinks so. You even told me yourself at dinner. ;)

[Jon Blaze]

I feel this way, too. You come to the place where "big is beautiful" except if you're not XYZ big, not a certain shape or gain weight exactly where someone demands it, it's quite hurtful. If you cannot get support here- then it's probably never coming. Period.
It's depressing to read things written by men "celebrating" women of a different shape- saying things like "pear shaped women are the REAL women of the world", a thread with a guy saying that apple shaped women cannot conceive and bear children like pear shaped women (it's utter bullshit- my hips are plenty wide and I have twins- I just don't gain weight in my lower ass as quickly as my gut).
I see people here acting like kids in the candy shop- and they seem to so easily discard that which they don't find to be eye candy as trash. No sensitivity or concern- as if we are not worth the trouble of polite decency.


Reading such things and picking up such messages, not only here but other places on the net, makes me wish to be thin. I don't feel embraced but rather devalued......I have some hope of having my shape/size appreciated at a lower weight.

A great irony is that the men from my past two sexual relationships always told me how much they love "my big ass". My ass is obviously big enough for men that like thinner women but also bigger ladies. I never get that here.....never in the place where big, but only in certain places, is beautiful.


HEY! I'm just like those guys. I think you're pretty just the way you are. ^_^ lol

But on a serious note: This is a much needed thread.
I don't think we (FAs, cross trainers, and so on) have any obligation to like a certain shape or size, but the fact that you're being discriminated against because you're not xyz lbs, and because you're not xyz shape is wrong. I'm really sorry a lot of you feel this way in what is suppose to be your safe haven.

[Tania]

If "fat" is a state of mind that has little to do with real fat as we know and experience it, what's to prevent us from resisting the messages out there and creating our own internal acceptance?

Easier said than done, especially in a world where rejection hurts and where we are told we will always be alone if we don't comply with acceptable body measuring standards.

I think it takes a Howard Beale-style epiphanic moment, when you realize that worldly constructs are bourgeois, bullshit traps designed to gratify The Man (lol) and have no intrinsic value as indicators of universal truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_qgVn-Op7Q

I think this BBW board has great potential to show us how much power we have - as a group and as individuals - against the hate chimerae. It took me until, like, THIS YEAR to realize that nobody is perfect and NO ONE is OR EVER WILL BE immune to the naysaying bullshit. I let that crap make me feel suicidal and less than human for years and years. Society is good at sowing the seeds of self-hatred, but in my case, I was the one who took the situation to extremes and came to the final conclusion regarding my unworthiness. Now I realize how unnecessary that was. There are people who appreciate me and want me and think I'm grand. Some of those people have dated thin, hot models, too, which goes to show that men are sold the same silly bill of goods that we are.

Break the cycle, people. Take a page from Mary Wollstonecraft and raise your sons and daughters to look beyond the hothouse flower illusions.

[Gingembre]

OOooh GREAT thread...really great! I am misised too I think...amd also way too tired to post properly now - it's gone 12.30am here and I meant to go to sleep an hour ago, but I will be back!

[comaseason]

I just wonder why there is so much upset and anger between the groups of fat women? And if it can be reconciled, what steps do we need to take to work towards that? Let's call a truce! Or is that wishful thinking? :D

I'm not naive; I know ALL women can be catty. Smaller bbws do it to ssbbws and ssbbws dish out the same to smaller bbws, but it just seems counterproductive to the cause (of fat girl sisterhood).

Invalidating others experiences and/or belittling people is often born out of insecurity. Just a thought, but maybe on both ends of the spectrum some people aren't as confident about their size or beauty as they would have others believe?

Being new to this community it is both difficult and informative to know that these kinds of things happen and that there can be biases. Not many people are self-actualized and we've still got a lot of room to grow - both in the world and in our own community.

Love others as you would love yourself. So I guess the trick is to helping people (including myself) love themselves more.

So how the hell do you do that?:eek:

[Tania]

You know, I often hear people say that it's hard to love other people if you can't love yourself. But I think the opposite is at least as true - if you can appreciate other people, warts and all, you have the potential to accept your own warts. Knowing other big girls who are hot and nifty helps you normalize your own fat.

I spent years judging myself against these impossible standards I would never even think to apply to other people. Then I realized how stupid and hypocritical that was.

[ashmamma84]

Invalidating others experiences and/or belittling people is often born out of insecurity. Just a thought, but maybe on both ends of the spectrum some people aren't as confident about their size or beauty as they would have others believe?Being new to this community it is both difficult and informative to know that these kinds of things happen and that there can be biases. Not many people are self-actualized and we've still got a lot of room to grow - both in the world and in our own community.

Love others as you would love yourself. So I guess the trick is to helping people (including myself) love themselves more.

So how the hell do you do that?:eek:

I definitely believe that as well. But don't you think it's hard for people to show love to others if they don't feel that great about themselves? If anything, I think it would be easier to hate on someone if you're really unhappy.

I'm big on affirmations - I have them all over my house. And I say them everyday. I literally stand in the mirror naked, saying what I love about myself -- and it just isn't physical. I tell myself that I'm worthy of love, respect, dignity, etc. That I'm a great friend, daugther, aunt, partner, lover, etc. And believe it or not something as small is giving myself a big hug does alot for me; to show myself some affection and gentleness that I afford others does wonders for my esteem. And I think sometimes we have to fake it til we make it; living in the world can be hard, but that doesn't mean we have to be nasty or harbor such anger towards others and if we do, maybe that's worth examining.

One of my good friends is a fellow bbw - and while she's bigger than me at a size 26, I've always felt like she was my (fat) sister. In all the years I've known her, she has not once complimented me. Now, it doesn't bother me because I receive compliments often, so its more of an observation and something I think is just...odd. What she does do is say something kinda crass like, "Oh Ash must think she looks SO good since she's always dressed to kill." Or something dramatic like that.

There was a time we went shopping for makeup at MAC and I had my face made over by a professional just to play around with some loud colors that I'd generally not wear to work, etc. So instead of saying, "Those colors are so cute!" Or "Your look is fierce!" like most women would do -- she pipes up, "Don't think you look better than me cause your face is made up!" :confused::eek: Um...I didn't realize this was a competition and honestly that's what I feel like she makes it out to be alot of times. It's gotten to the point where I don't really reach out to her anymore because the negativity and self hate has just eaten her up. The joy and laughter we used to share is just gone...and really, I'm just not interested in dealing with it.

I'm past the trying to help her, help herself. I've talked until I've been blue in the face. She truly believes her life would be different if she weren't apple shaped and if she were thin. Sometimes you just have to let a person hit rock bottom and realize the time wasted for them to awaken to their lives - and that's where I am, at least concerning her. Just makes me kinda sad though because she truly is a beautiful woman.

[Green Eyed Fairy]

You know, I often hear people say that it's hard to love other people if you can't love yourself. But I think the opposite is at least as true - if you can appreciate other people, warts and all, you have the potential to accept your own warts. Knowing other big girls who are hot and nifty helps you normalize your own fat.

I spent years judging myself against these impossible standards I would never even think to apply to other people. Then I realized how stupid and hypocritical that was.

This is true for me, as well. We are usually our own worst critics.

[comaseason]

You know, I often hear people say that it's hard to love other people if you can't love yourself. But I think the opposite is at least as true - if you can appreciate other people, warts and all, you have the potential to accept your own warts. Knowing other big girls who are hot and nifty helps you normalize your own fat.

I spent years judging myself against these impossible standards I would never even think to apply to other people. Then I realized how stupid and hypocritical that was.

That's a very good point, I'd never thought about it quite like that before.

And I totally hear ya about the judging yourself against impossible standards...I still do that and catch myself. I always have to ask - now why would that be true for you and not for someone else?

I mean I want to be *special* and all, but some of the things I think I should be doing/being/saying/living... ridiculous! :doh:

[comaseason]

I definitely believe that as well. But don't you think it's hard for people to show love to others if they don't feel that great about themselves? If anything, I think it would be easier to hate on someone if you're really unhappy.

That is indeed the freakin rub of it all - isn't it? I agree that I find myself being a lot more snippy and harsh with people and their quirks, if I'm having a hard time with myself.

Why God, why? *shakes fist*

I'm big on affirmations - I have them all over my house. And I say them everyday. I literally stand in the mirror naked, saying what I love about myself -- and it just isn't physical. I tell myself that I'm worthy of love, respect, dignity, etc. That I'm a great friend, daugther, aunt, partner, lover, etc. And believe it or not something as small is giving myself a big hug does alot for me; to show myself some affection and gentleness that I afford others does wonders for my esteem. And I think sometimes we have to fake it til we make it; living in the world can be hard, but that doesn't mean we have to be nasty or harbor such anger towards others and if we do, maybe that's worth examining.

I've never been able to quite get into that habit. I wake up every morning and say out loud the things I'm thankful for, but I will readily admit that they often have to do with other people or things - and not typically about myself. How did you get yourself into the habit?

[kayrae]

Quick tangent (I promise to talk about being fat later, but I really want to respond to Tooz):

If only I read something like this when I was in high school. When I was a sophomore, my teacher wanted us to write an essay choosing which was worse: Black slavery vs. Japanese internment. He gave me an F because my thesis statement didn't choose a side. I said they were both horrible. I found out a year later that teacher was fired because of numerous student complaints.

Opression Olympics (http://www.o-dub.com/weblog/2004/02/one-more-thing-about-oppression.html) (I can't find the link I was initially looking for which was directly related to fats and fatter fats, but this'll do) can run rampant with women, sometimes with the larger discrediting the struggles of smaller women because it MUST be easier because they weigh less. We all have our own battles.

[ashmamma84]

That is indeed the freakin rub of it all - isn't it? I agree that I find myself being a lot more snippy and harsh with people and their quirks, if I'm having a hard time with myself.

Why God, why? *shakes fist*



I've never been able to quite get into that habit. I wake up every morning and say out loud the things I'm thankful for, but I will readily admit that they often have to do with other people or things - and not typically about myself. How did you get yourself into the habit?

Honestly, I began a spiritual practice and apart of that includes saying affirmations about all aspects of my life - health, finances, career, my relationship with my partner, etc. so it just blossomed out of that. Then I received a Purposeful Living bangle bracelet and a Believe in Yourself plaque from a good friend for my bday. And it really took off from there.

Its so funny how we can ask for things for others or be thankful for others, but how often do we actually say, "I am thankful for me. I am thankful for my life, whereever I may be on this journey." I think alot of times we have such a hard time loving ourselves through all of it--good, bad, and downright ugly. It's difficult for us to look at our lives without judgement and to love ourselves for having created it. But I think the day we can open our hearts in love and appreciation, in trust, and in joy is the day that maybe then we will love what we really are, not later on, when things are as we think they should be.

[littlefairywren]

I am so glad that the BBW Forum is up and running. It has probably been said to death, but when I first found Dims I did that exhale thing. Like, finally I found a place where I fit. But after rummaging around all over the different boards I started getting disappointed by some of the bitchiness over who really "belongs" here. To the point where I was reluctant to post, because what the hell would I know - I'm not really fat enough to understand!

Is being Super Sized like being part of an exclusive club and why did I not get an invitation.

I was actually under the impression that all fat women would be some kind of support group for each other because we all would have experienced some kind of discrimmination one way or another! I am that pear shape and it's no great shakes at times:mad:

Hope that all came out the right way:D

[Fascinita]

I think this BBW board has great potential to show us how much power we have - as a group and as individuals - against the hate chimerae. It took me until, like, THIS YEAR to realize that nobody is perfect and NO ONE is OR EVER WILL BE immune to the naysaying bullshit.

Yes, I agree. If we concede the point that our bodies are not as acceptable as those touted by the most vocal proponents of whatever shape, we're in essence saying, "You're right, I am second rate." And it's clearly a matter of preferences, in the end. Not to mention that attraction--real life, one-on-one, get-down-to-it attraction--is a complicated deal.

We don't have to accept sweeping generalizations about what's "better" or "preferable," where looks go. Those generalizations tend to fall apart at the level of individual attraction anyway. There is someone out there for everyone--probably more "someones" out there per person than any one of us would know what to do with if you put all those someones potentially attracted to us in a single room.

Sweeping generalizations get vocalized in ways such that we begin to feel they have the weight of authority--using science, or politics, or the media to pin them on. But we can AND should resist people claiming authority over our bodies and our lives.

Internalize these loudly voiced generalizations as "truths," and it does get very depressing. But I think we have a choice, luckily. :)

[Punkin1024]

I'm an in betweenie! I'm 4' 11-1/2" and weigh around 275. The most frustrating thing for me is I'm about two sizes over average women's petite sizes, and too short for the really cute larger sizes. My family worries about my size and I'm constantly feeling guilty because I just don't feel like putting in all the effort to get down to a smaller size.

I was a part of Dimensions in the old forums and left for a couple of years because I was getting smaller and felt I would not be accepted in here. It took several months and posts from some old friends for me to come back. I'm so glad that ALL BBW's are now being accepted as a part of this community, even though I've gained back to where I used to be. It is nice to know that if ever I get smaller (for whatever reason), I'll still be welcome here.

[ashy1]

Quick tangent (I promise to talk about being fat later, but I really want to respond to Tooz):

If only I read something like this when I was in high school. When I was a sophomore, my teacher wanted us to write an essay choosing which was worse: Black slavery vs. Japanese internment. He gave me an F because my thesis statement didn't choose a side. I said they were both horrible. I found out a year later that teacher was fired because of numerous student complaints.

I don’t think it should be assumed the teacher was wrong or incompetent because students complained. The F was harsh but I understand the reason that grade was given. If you did not take a stand on those issues, what would you have argued in the body of the paper?

[thatgirl08]

I think the problem is that there just really isn't a fat girl sisterhood. Not on any large scale at least.

I think part of the reason for this is because so many fat women hate themselves that it's like, they almost don't even want to talk about it and if they do, they're complaining about it. It's hard to really bond over that unless you're bonding over weightloss talk which is just.. sickening really. Bonding over mutual hatred of something isn't really the best relationship starter, imo.

As far as shapes are concerned, I have felt .. devalued on this site because I'm not the "right" shape. I'm somewhat flat chested (44C) and definitely have no butt. I'm a classic apple shape and most guys just don't seem to prefer that. I'm lucky enough to be dating (we just made it official today!) someone who prefers apple shapes to other shapes but I definitely wouldn't say thats the norm. I hate being made to feel like my body STILL isn't good enough. Luckily though, I guess there's something for everyone and my bf happens to think I'm hot.

[StarWitness]

As far as shapes are concerned, I have felt .. devalued on this site because I'm not the "right" shape. I'm somewhat flat chested (44C) and definitely have no butt. I'm a classic apple shape and most guys just don't seem to prefer that.

Same here. I'm not very curvy at all; my weight disproportionately resides in my midsection. I like to think of myself as mango shaped (yay, extended fruit metaphor).

For me, hearing "Fat girls are hot" followed up with qualifying statements about tits and hips and asses makes me feel about the same as hearing "Thin girls are hot." Because-- and I know this is ego-centric-- I still don't meet what are apparently the standard qualifications of having an attractive body.

And then I say to myself, "StarWitness," I say, "you have to stop using other people's opinions to bolster your sense of self-worth. We've been down this road before. We don't like this road. Find a different damn road."

And, against all logic, I still buy into it and feel like a hag. *shrug* At least my therapist isn't going hungry.

[thatgirl08]

Same here. I'm not very curvy at all; my weight disproportionately resides in my midsection. I like to think of myself as mango shaped (yay, extended fruit metaphor).

For me, hearing "Fat girls are hot" followed up with qualifying statements about tits and hips and asses makes me feel about the same as hearing "Thin girls are hot." Because-- and I know this is ego-centric-- I still don't meet what are apparently the standard qualifications of having an attractive body.

And then I say to myself, "StarWitness," I say, "you have to stop using other people's opinions to bolster your sense of self-worth. We've been down this road before. We don't like this road. Find a different damn road."

And, against all logic, I still buy into it and feel like a hag. *shrug* At least my therapist isn't going hungry.

oo I like mango's better than apples. I may start using that.

But yeah, that's exactly how I feel.

[Fascinita]

For me, hearing "Fat girls are hot" followed up with qualifying statements about tits and hips and asses makes me feel about the same as hearing "Thin girls are hot." Because-- and I know this is ego-centric-- I still don't meet what are apparently the standard qualifications of having an attractive body.

What do you think might make you feel better about it? Like, if you could change any of the factors involved in your feeling like this, what would you change?

[StarWitness]

What do you think might make you feel better about it? Like, if you could change any of the factors involved in your feeling like this, what would you change?

Honestly... I don't know what would make me feel better. (Women! Amirite, guys?)

I don't think the "Thick-waisted chicks with small breasts and okay asses appreciation thread" would do it, because that would make me feel fetishized, and I don't like that either. Shit, if I even believed anyone who posted in that thread. I don't want someone to be attracted to me in spite of my body, but I have trouble deprogramming myself to the point where I believe that someone actually would be attracted to my body. That was actually a major issue in my last relationship (I mean, it wasn't as simple as me having low self-esteem, but it certainly didn't help matters).

And it's a little glib to say that I'd want to be confident in myself all the time and not care what anyone else thinks. I mean, self-confidence is something I've been working on for quite some time (so long, in fact, that I can't bring myself to use it as an answer to questions along this line without rolling my eyes), but I don't know that changing myself, even for the better, is going to change how I feel about this issue.

I guess... hm... if I could jump in a rocketship and go live on StarWitness' Ideal Planet where there isn't a long and pervasive history of women's worth being reduced to physical attractiveness? And in that rocketship I undergo brain surgery that removes all the painful and negative associations I have with my body? That would help.

[StarWitness]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/kevin2517/250px-Prof_Farnsworth.jpg Oh, I've made myself sad...

[katherine22]

This makes absolute sense to me. I've experienced it. I felt worse about my body when I was 20 lb over what I was told was the ideal than I do now at over 100 lb over.

This points to the fact that what we know as "fat" in the popular imagination has little to do with actual fat. "Fat" is a concept that's been made monstrous and used to keep us in line. This explains why women with "5 lbs to lose" can have insanely distorted body images.

If "fat" is a state of mind that has little to do with real fat as we know and experience it, what's to prevent us from resisting the messages out there and creating our own internal acceptance?

Easier said than done, especially in a world where rejection hurts and where we are told we will always be alone if we don't comply with acceptable body measuring standards.

Sometimes it is difficult to separate fat and self-hatred. It is too painful to say that I hate myself ; therefore, I will say that it is my fat that is hanging me up. Most people have not thought far enough about the idea of beauty as the product of social construction. What FAs love is just an exaggerated image of the valued thin woman - big tits, protruding ass and small stomach the 400 lb. J-Lou another unrealistic standard. A very smart woman once said to me "never allow a man to have control of your emotional life" they do not have the intelligence to handle it. I AM NOT BASHING MEN HERE. We want men to appreciate qualities about us that they are not capable of apprehending.

[fatgirlflyin]

I think part of the reason for this is because so many fat women hate themselves that it's like, they almost don't even want to talk about it and if they do, they're complaining about it. It's hard to really bond over that unless you're bonding over weightloss talk which is just.. sickening really. Bonding over mutual hatred of something isn't really the best relationship starter, imo.

As far as shapes are concerned, I have felt .. devalued on this site because I'm not the "right" shape. I'm somewhat flat chested (44C) and definitely have no butt. I'm a classic apple shape and most guys just don't seem to prefer that. I'm lucky enough to be dating (we just made it official today!) someone who prefers apple shapes to other shapes but I definitely wouldn't say thats the norm. I hate being made to feel like my body STILL isn't good enough. Luckily though, I guess there's something for everyone and my bf happens to think I'm hot.


I think you're right. I've known many fat women and the ones that are just fine with themselves for the most part are the ones that I've formed deep friendships with. I'm fortunate to have several fat women that I consider very close friends, they remind me that I'm beautiful when I forget.

I was in Ketchikan last week and one of the employees had made a quilt, and the squares on the quilt were women with bodies made out of fruit. I instantly thought about Dimensions and snapped a few pics. I'll upload them and post them here in a little while.

[Tooz]

Quick tangent (I promise to talk about being fat later, but I really want to respond to Tooz):

If only I read something like this when I was in high school. When I was a sophomore, my teacher wanted us to write an essay choosing which was worse: Black slavery vs. Japanese internment. He gave me an F because my thesis statement didn't choose a side. I said they were both horrible. I found out a year later that teacher was fired because of numerous student complaints.

...........

Jesus H.
How can you even compare the two? They are both awful things in their own way (with some shared ground). I take a staunch position that you cannot compare suffering, because none of it is the same, even down to how it affects each individual. That teacher sounds awful.

[kayrae]

Let me explain. I wrote that paper when I was a sophomore in high school. While he didn't explicitly say this, it was my teacher's view that the reparations and redress that Japanese Americans received ($20k for each surviving detainee) was unfair to African Americans who never received the "40 acres and a mule" that the US government promised the newly freed slaves. He basically wanted me to write a paper arguing that slavery was more horrible than internment. I wrote my paper from the viewpoint that the two injustices cannot be compared.

The F was harsh. I was the best student in that class with the highest earned grade. He was an athletic coach and gave my classmates unlimited extra credit for going to his games. I never got extra credit because I had music lessons that conflicted with his schedule.

I'm not going to lie. I was an arrogant academic student at the time and I didn't value my GPA because it was my viewpoint that grades were not an accurate measurement of someone's intelligence. I rewrote that paper and gave him the bullshit thesis that he really wanted, but I've always felt horrible for writing a paper from a standpoint that I didn't believe. I got an A for that piece of shit paper.

That teacher was incompetent and an asshole. He also disliked me because I was the only student to advance to AP English. When my name was announced in class, he asked me to respond honestly: Did I learn anything in his class to help me get into AP English? Like I said, I was an arrogant little biznatch and he asked me to be honest. I said no because it was the truth. I never filed a grievance against him, because I was just a kid and I didn't know any better.

I don’t think it should be assumed the teacher was wrong or incompetent because students complained. The F was harsh but I understand the reason that grade was given. If you did not take a stand on those issues, what would you have argued in the body of the paper?

But to tie this explanation to the actual InBetweenie topic, my suffering as a midsize fatty is incomparable to the suffering of a larger fatty. They are different and neither one should be invalidated. Luckily, I have personally met many different sized women on Dimensions who treat me with the equal respect I give them.

[BubbleButtBabe]

Ever felt like you were too fat for the skinnies and too skinny for the fatties? Quite the conundrum, eh? Well let's discuss how we can learn to tune out those conflicting/maddening messages and be comfortable in our smaller or midsize bodies. How do you respond to hurtful comments from either side? And also, what do you think smaller and midsize women can do to strengthen relationships with other women (ssbbw, specifically)? What do you think we can work on? What do you think we can learn?

Come one, come all! I know other midsize sisters are in the lurk - don't be afraid...we don't bite. Much :D.


I have had nasty comments from both sides..The skinnies were always laughing and pointing out how big my what ever body part was..They would make snide comments about Omar the Tent maker,hell even my own family did that..Then I would meet another BBW that might be a tad bit bigger then me and I would complain about clothing or how I was treated and she would tell me that I was getting off easy.....I never understood that...I got called all the same names she did and got all of the same snide comments from men and women alike over my size..

Bigger women need to understand that even if we aren't SS we still get the snide comments and the stares..We are treated like we have a catching disease as well..Just because we do not weigh 300 + does not mean it is not happening to us as well..People stare at us to see if we can sit in a chair without breaking it,if we can climb a flight of stairs without being so winded,watch us to see if we waddle..They try to humiliate us as much as the bigger women..

To end this I think we all need to understand as women no matter our size,race,nationality we are all still being treated as second class people..As subservient and our opinions and concerns should not matter..I grew up in the 70's and saw how hard women struggled to be treated as an equal and I think some of the younger women forget that the way they are treated now is not a given..It was fought for long and hard and we have to stay united and diligent to keep it that way no matter our size,social standing,race or nationality..

[BarbBBW]

I consider myself a full blown BBW, but alot of people tell me i am in in betweenie,.. at 5'7 300lbs ,.. to me thats a bbw, it just happens i "carry it well" OMFG LOL

[fatgirlflyin]

I consider myself a full blown BBW, but alot of people tell me i am in in betweenie,.. at 5'7 300lbs ,.. to me thats a bbw, it just happens i "carry it well" OMFG LOL


Ok Barb, not picking on you here but that phrase "carry it well" is the kind of phrase that adds to the whole its ok if you're fat but not too fat idea.

Its ok if you're 400 pounds so long as you "carry it well" and don't look like you're 400 pounds. See what I'm saying?

[BarbBBW]

Ok Barb, not picking on you here but that phrase "carry it well" is the kind of phrase that adds to the whole its ok if you're fat but not too fat idea.

Its ok if you're 400 pounds so long as you "carry it well" and don't look like you're 400 pounds. See what I'm saying?

i def see what you are saying!! I agree completely!!

[BubbleButtBabe]

It's depressing to read things written by men "celebrating" women of a different shape- saying things like "pear shaped women are the REAL women of the world", a thread with a guy saying that apple shaped women cannot conceive and bear children like pear shaped women (it's utter bullshit- my hips are plenty wide and I have twins- I just don't gain weight in my lower ass as quickly as my gut).
I see people here acting like kids in the candy shop- and they seem to so easily discard that which they don't find to be eye candy as trash. No sensitivity or concern- as if we are not worth the trouble of polite decency.


Reading such things and picking up such messages, not only here but other places on the net, makes me wish to be thin. I don't feel embraced but rather devalued......I have some hope of having my shape/size appreciated at a lower weight.

A great irony is that the men from my past two sexual relationships always told me how much they love "my big ass". My ass is obviously big enough for men that like thinner women but also bigger ladies. I never get that here.....never in the place where big, but only in certain places, is beautiful.

I call bullshit on the apple women can't conceive and bear children tripe..I have small hips for my size but have had 2 children natural and had no problems pushing them little sucker( I mean angels out) and my hips went back..

I am an apple and have been most of my life..I don't have enormous boobs,42 D is small compared to some,my hips are not wide at all but my ass is big and bubbled..I personally see nothing wrong with an apple,just means we have soft bellies for men to lay their heads!!

I understand where you are coming from GEF,it does hurt and I at times wish I was smaller,back to where I was when I was 23..

[Shosh]

I am an In Betweenie!

66937

[Tau]

I feel this way, too. You come to the place where "big is beautiful" except if you're not XYZ big, not a certain shape or gain weight exactly where someone demands it, it's quite hurtful. If you cannot get support here- then it's probably never coming. Period.
It's depressing to read things written by men "celebrating" women of a different shape- saying things like "pear shaped women are the REAL women of the world", a thread with a guy saying that apple shaped women cannot conceive and bear children like pear shaped women (it's utter bullshit- my hips are plenty wide and I have twins- I just don't gain weight in my lower ass as quickly as my gut).
I see people here acting like kids in the candy shop- and they seem to so easily discard that which they don't find to be eye candy as trash. No sensitivity or concern- as if we are not worth the trouble of polite decency.


Reading such things and picking up such messages, not only here but other places on the net, makes me wish to be thin. I don't feel embraced but rather devalued......I have some hope of having my shape/size appreciated at a lower weight.

A great irony is that the men from my past two sexual relationships always told me how much they love "my big ass". My ass is obviously big enough for men that like thinner women but also bigger ladies. I never get that here.....never in the place where big, but only in certain places, is beautiful.

Oh, I loved this! I havent felt brave enough to air my dissatisfaction on the whole 'if you not a pear you not hot' bit. I'm definitely not a pear - I'm also boobier than I am tummy, but before joining Dims and FF I thought my ass was just fine - fabulous to be exact LOL! Now, I confess, there are times I look at my poor little bottom and find it lacking :p. And I'm not ok with that because it means I still base, to some extent, what I find beautiful on the opinions of random men! From the internet nogal!! That really bothers me...

[olwen]

You know, I thought in-between was when you were too fat to be thin, but not fat enough to be considered really fat by some. There seem to be differering opinions so far about what exactly counts as inbetween. Would anyone care to take a stab at a definition or is a definition difficult to define? Would it come down to a certain size or just certain experiences?

[BubbleButtBabe]

Personally I think an in-between is someone that weighs over 170lbs but under 350 lbs..To fat to be considered skinny and to small to be considered SS..JMO

[BarbBBW]

well IRL, I am considered FAT, by no means an in betweenie, but its different here on DIMS. IMO. I go with just FAT , not an in betweenie for me.

[ashmamma84]

You know, I thought in-between was when you were too fat to be thin, but not fat enough to be considered really fat by some. There seem to be differering opinions so far about what exactly counts as inbetween. Would anyone care to take a stab at a definition or is a definition difficult to define? Would it come down to a certain size or just certain experiences?

I guess its never really been about a specific size so to speak, as much as it has certain experiences. I mean, truth be told, I have friends that are much bigger than me at 300+, but to a 600lb person they might not seem "as fat". So, maybe it's a perspective thing. That's why sometimes its maddening to read about how folks think 250lbs is soooo thin; well yeah, I guess in Dims world it is, but NOWHERE outside of this community is it thought of as such. That's where alot of the disconnect comes in (at least for me).

In terms of my body - yes, I am definitely too fat to be considered thin, but I'm not fat enough to be really fat. I think that "in between" has a range just like SS or what have you; the way we carry weight, our height, etc all play a part I think. But really, to keep it simple - if you think you're an in betweeny, you are one.

[tinkerbell]

I guess I'm another inbetweenie. I've always felt out of place here, as I'm "small" by the standards here, and have been told I wasn't fat enough to be here. But yet, was still considered hugely fat by the rest of the world.

I've learned to love my body, and learned to love the things it can do. And I've also felt out of place here because I think its ok to want to (and TO) lose weight - and that just because you do, doesn't mean you are betraying the fat community or only doing it to conform to what society perceives as beautiful.

And yeah, I hate being told that I "carry my weight well" by people, and there was no way I could be 290 lbs, because I didn't look it. Well I was. And statements like that made me feel like crap - that since I didn't look 290, I was moderately ok. But if I looked like I weighed it, then I'd be crap.

[Tania]

if you think you're an in betweeny, you are one.

Totally. I don't see much purpose in bogarting the label for the exclusive use of one, precisely defined group - we gain much in drawing in as many "in between" experiences as possible.

[LillyBBBW]

...........

Jesus H.
How can you even compare the two? They are both awful things in their own way (with some shared ground). I take a staunch position that you cannot compare suffering, because none of it is the same, even down to how it affects each individual. That teacher sounds awful.

I personally suffered more when I was a smaller bbw than I do now. It seemed the pressure to lose weight and be smaller was much more intense then. There's a biblical saying about "snatching someone from the fire" when they are headed in the wrong direction. I attribute this new liberty to my larger size. People before may have felt their comments would be helpful to push me towards losing weight when I was smaller where as now at over 400 I'm considered charred beyond recognition and therefore not worth the effort or scalding hand burns. I kind of wish I hadn't gone along so easily and scalded some more hands when I was smaller. The truth is I always believed I was a sandwhich or two away from a size 8 myself so I had no desire to stick up for myself as I was, a fat woman. I always felt I was a thin woman in disguise so I didn't fight for being.

[kayrae]

I'm an avid fan of Fatshionista (http://www.fatshionista.com). In their livejournal community, an inbetweenie (http://community.livejournal.com/fatshionista/143048.html) is defined as someone who's a size 12-18 because the woman can still wear straight-sized clothing. They also have "death fat (http://www.fatshionista.com/cms/index.php?option=com_mojo&Itemid=69&p=212)," which is a snarky replacement of the medical term "morbidly obese."

[BarbBBW]

I'm an avid fan of Fatshionista (http://www.fatshionista.com). In their livejournal community, an inbetweenie (http://community.livejournal.com/fatshionista/143048.html) is defined as someone who's a size 12-18 because the woman can still wear straight-sized clothing. They also have "death fat (http://www.fatshionista.com/cms/index.php?option=com_mojo&Itemid=69&p=212)," which is a snarky replacement of the medical term "morbidly obese."

ok I am def not an inbetweenie!! LMAO
great info Kayrae!!

[ashmamma84]

I'm an avid fan of Fatshionista (http://www.fatshionista.com). In their livejournal community, an inbetweenie (http://community.livejournal.com/fatshionista/143048.html) is defined as someone who's a size 12-18 because the woman can still wear straight-sized clothing. They also have "death fat (http://www.fatshionista.com/cms/index.php?option=com_mojo&Itemid=69&p=212)," which is a snarky replacement of the medical term "morbidly obese."

I'm a fan of the Fats as well. I'd be curious to know how many of those women on the site are above a size 24 though...that might have something to do with their stance on inbetweenies. And it can be confusing to think you're a full fledged fat girl there because you're a size 18/20; only to visit Dims and find that you're a "light weight". Heh.

[Suze]

Fatshionista & Dims are the only fat related sites I've bookmarked (along with some fatshion blogs.) I think they fulfill each other =)
When I get tired of Fatshionista's sometimes over the top (imo) political correctness, I head over to "peeing in bed sessions" at dims so I can breathe freely again ;)

I'm a pretty traditional inbetweenie. A size 16/18 may sound "skinny" to some, but you really have to set it into perspective. I know I'm repeating myself (again? lol), but I'm really not kidding when I say I have no (IRL) friends that are even close to my size. I know of maybe a couple, but they're not people I usually hang out with. (and they're still not as big as I am.)
Everyone in my family weigh less than me, yeah we have some chub there, but I still beat the fattest uncle with about 15 pounds or so. (He recently told me what he weighed, thank you very much:P)
The clothing options sucks in my part of the world. The US really is a plus size shopping heaven, I know you don't exactly feel the same way, but it reaaally is compared to the rest of the worlds options. (At least if you're in the 16-26 range. If you're anything over that, it sounds like it's difficult no matter where you're located. sigh.)

Most regular shops only go up to a 14/large or 16/xl at max. People are always asking me- ohhh I like your new x, y or z, where did you get that? That MUST be ebay, right?

They're usually correct about that.

Why? Because I want a poplin dress, I want skinny jeans, I even want a sequined vest and a leotard gawd damnit. :p
That is basically impossible to get anywhere near a size 18 unless you go online. (Or as I sometimes do- try/buy stuff that end up looking alright, even if it wasn't originally made for a girl my size.)

This is some of the reasons why I stand out, even if i'm not a ssbbw. I think it's great that people realizes that ones fat experience is not automatically easier just because you weigh less!

I get sad when I hear bbws and ssbbw bitching on each others looks. That's just a ridiculous waste of energy... especially if you're part of a size acceptance community. :blink: Talk about peeing in your own pool

[Red]

Great topic Ash.

It's weird as I think I have encountered more bitchiness in the 'BBW' community than with my 'normal'* friends. For example when at a BBW night I am more likely to receive some sort of catty comment compared to being at a everyday club. I see it like this, with my skinny friends I am invisible, a sort of 'non-threat'** to anyone but at a BBW night the claws come out, I can see people sizing me up and commenting about my shape/size behind my back and to my face.


So yes, I do feel that I sort of fall in the 'inbetweeny' catagory. Too fat to be taken seriously in 'real life' too thin to be a stand out in the BBW scene. The point is though that I don't actually mind, I sort of really like floating between these two worlds and trying to understand the people and myself along the journey.

I have never been fatter than I am now and I have never been thin, ever. I don't know where I'll end up but that doesn't matter; as I get older I have discovered more self acceptance then when I was a smaller teenager (back when I felt horrendous) but now I sort of forget my size most of the time. It's only when I encounter a health issue that I fear may be weight related or receive a snide comment from someone that I'm reminded. This happened the other day actually, I was at a car boot sale flogging off some old bits and bobs when an elderly gentleman came and asked me about a mini DVD player I was selling. He complained that it was too small and was tutting about the size of the screen but was still looking at it with interest so I jokingly said 'oh, well I used to have it in my very small flat, so it was perfect' and without missing a beat he replied 'oh small flat eh, how'd you fit in it then?' whilst glancing at me with mild disgust. I forget how other people see me and sometimes it hurts like hell to be reminded but thankfully the pain is fleeting as I have so many positive experiences to balance it all out.


Jeebus, what was I supposed to saying ah yes, over 200lb under 300lb, inbetweeny for sure.








* you know what I mean ! :p

** I'm totally not a 'non-threat' but I like the look on the skinny minnies faces when they realise I'm not ;)

[Fascinita]

He complained that it was too small and was tutting about the size of the screen but was still looking at it with interest so I jokingly said 'oh, well I used to have it in my very small flat, so it was perfect' and without missing a beat he replied 'oh small flat eh, how'd you fit in it then?' whilst glancing at me with mild disgust


That old guy sucks. I hope he has an unpleasant breakfast tomorrow. :p

[Green Eyed Fairy]

What do you think might make you feel better about it? Like, if you could change any of the factors involved in your feeling like this, what would you change?

Honestly... I don't know what would make me feel better. (Women! Amirite, guys?)

I don't think the "Thick-waisted chicks with small breasts and okay asses appreciation thread" would do it, because that would make me feel fetishized, and I don't like that either. Shit, if I even believed anyone who posted in that thread. I don't want someone to be attracted to me in spite of my body, but I have trouble deprogramming myself to the point where I believe that someone actually would be attracted to my body. That was actually a major issue in my last relationship (I mean, it wasn't as simple as me having low self-esteem, but it certainly didn't help matters).

And it's a little glib to say that I'd want to be confident in myself all the time and not care what anyone else thinks. I mean, self-confidence is something I've been working on for quite some time (so long, in fact, that I can't bring myself to use it as an answer to questions along this line without rolling my eyes), but I don't know that changing myself, even for the better, is going to change how I feel about this issue.

I guess... hm... if I could jump in a rocketship and go live on StarWitness' Ideal Planet where there isn't a long and pervasive history of women's worth being reduced to physical attractiveness? And in that rocketship I undergo brain surgery that removes all the painful and negative associations I have with my body? That would help.

I actually made some threads in an attempt to offset the bad feelings. One is still going strong- the "I love guys that love bellies" appreciation thread on the weight board. It's full of guys saying how they love bellies.
I thought us apple shapes needed that- since we don't seem to hear from the belly guys as much as the pear lovers.

I also made a thread on the main board called "The Apple Shaped Thread" about what we like about our stomachs and our road to accepting ourselves. It hasn't been bumped in a while though....


I was in Ketchikan last week and one of the employees had made a quilt, and the squares on the quilt were women with bodies made out of fruit. I instantly thought about Dimensions and snapped a few pics. I'll upload them and post them here in a little while.


I would love to see those pictures :D

Great topic Ash.

It's weird as I think I have encountered more bitchiness in the 'BBW' community than with my 'normal'* friends. For example when at a BBW night I am more likely to receive some sort of catty comment compared to being at a everyday club. I see it like this, with my skinny friends I am invisible, a sort of 'non-threat'** to anyone but at a BBW night the claws come out, I can see people sizing me up and commenting about my shape/size behind my back and to my face.


So yes, I do feel that I sort of fall in the 'inbetweeny' catagory. Too fat to be taken seriously in 'real life' too thin to be a stand out in the BBW scene. The point is though that I don't actually mind, I sort of really like floating between these two worlds and trying to understand the people and myself along the journey.

I have never been fatter than I am now and I have never been thin, ever. I don't know where I'll end up but that doesn't matter; as I get older I have discovered more self acceptance then when I was a smaller teenager (back when I felt horrendous) but now I sort of forget my size most of the time. It's only when I encounter a health issue that I fear may be weight related or receive a snide comment from someone that I'm reminded. This happened the other day actually, I was at a car boot sale flogging off some old bits and bobs when an elderly gentleman came and asked me about a mini DVD player I was selling. He complained that it was too small and was tutting about the size of the screen but was still looking at it with interest so I jokingly said 'oh, well I used to have it in my very small flat, so it was perfect' and without missing a beat he replied 'oh small flat eh, how'd you fit in it then?' whilst glancing at me with mild disgust. I forget how other people see me and sometimes it hurts like hell to be reminded but thankfully the pain is fleeting as I have so many positive experiences to balance it all out.




I hope you used your size to intimidate that idiot and made him eat that DVD player ;)

[StarWitness]

You know, it's weird, I always figured that "apple-shaped" meant a woman with large breasts in proportion to the rest of her body, and there was no term for a woman with a large midsection. I guess I was thinking Red Delicious, and everyone else meant McIntosh.

I'm an avid fan of Fatshionista (http://www.fatshionista.com). In their livejournal community, an inbetweenie (http://community.livejournal.com/fatshionista/143048.html) is defined as someone who's a size 12-18 because the woman can still wear straight-sized clothing. They also have "death fat (http://www.fatshionista.com/cms/index.php?option=com_mojo&Itemid=69&p=212)," which is a snarky replacement of the medical term "morbidly obese."

I read Fatshionista too, it's a fantastic community! That definition doesn't really work for me, unfortunately, because I'm a 14/16 top and an 18/20 bottom. So I'm an in-between-in-betweenie. ;)

I actually made some threads in an attempt to offset the bad feelings. One is still going strong- the "I love guys that love bellies" appreciation thread on the weight board. It's full of guys saying how they love bellies.
I thought us apple shapes needed that- since we don't seem to hear from the belly guys as much as the pear lovers.

I also made a thread on the main board called "The Apple Shaped Thread" about what we like about our stomachs and our road to accepting ourselves. It hasn't been bumped in a while though....

I've seen those threads, and I sincerely appreciate your intent. I have to admit, though, that I haven't read them because I... well... I just have that many issues regarding my belly. Having to dwell on it for the duration of reading a mult-page thread is a really unpleasant task. I know, lame.

[graceofangels]

I'm 5'8" girl and 220-240. I fluctuate. I go from a size 16-20 and most people just call me thick. I find bigger girls don't like me that much, and all my female friends are twiggs. So I know the feeling of being lost in the midsize.

[Fascinita]

Just some stuff I've been thinking about:

You know, I have to testify and say that I've had fat women friends of all sizes--from next-to-skinny to supersize.

So what I wonder is, are we talking about differences between groups more than anything here-- a kind of clan warfare? Because I think at the level of individuals maybe those differences make less of a difference.

I know some women here have told stories of friendships that fall apart because of the pressure that being "the wrong size" exerts. But I'm wondering if those problems shouldn't be chalked up to individual tensions. That is, can we really say across the board that ALL individuals who are a certain size behave in a certain way? And if we do that, how does it help the idea of inclusion?

[StarWitness]

So what I wonder is, are we talking about differences between groups more than anything here-- a kind of clan warfare? Because I think at the level of individuals maybe those differences make less of a difference.

I know some women here have told stories of friendships that fall apart because of the pressure that being "the wrong size" exerts. But I'm wondering if those problems shouldn't be chalked up to individual tensions. That is, can we really say across the board that ALL individuals who are a certain size behave in a certain way? And if we do that, how does it help the idea of inclusion?

Honestly, it's a pattern I've seen in a lot of the subcultures I've been involved with: groups break off into smaller factions, there's talk about who's "real" and who isn't.

I think in this case it's because, for the most part, we're on Dims because of difference. We feel different from what we feel pressure to look like as women, and we are different from fat women whose goal it is to get skinny ASAP and don't stop to consider that they could be happy as they are, or that fatness could be a valid part of their identity.

I feel pretty safe in saying that a lot of us-- if not all of us-- have felt marginalized in some way because of our weight. So now that we're here and talking about it? Well, I can't speak for you all, but I don't think I've ever had a frank, face-to-face discussion with another woman of size about our shared feelings regarding our bodies.

This is still new territory for me. It's much easier for me to instantly go to that mindset I've grown accustomed to: I am an outsider, I am different from everyone else, I can't be a [label] because [reason], they do not accept me as one of them. I'm still trying to navigate how be inclusive, and feel included.

[StarWitness]

Hm, I seemed to have killed the thread.

*loots the corpse*

[BarbBBW]

Hm, I seemed to have killed the thread.

*loots the corpse*

dont worry i do it all the time LMAO

[Violet_Beauregard]

Another in-betweener here... And it all depends on who I'm speaking with. Nearly every FA I've had contact with, thinks that I'm "MUCH" too small and need to gain at least 50+ pounds. My boyfriends keeps telling me that I'm not as big as I think I am, and he loves me just the way I am. (Yay me!)

Per doctor's orders though, I've got to lose. I'm starting to have hip problems and am borderline diabetic and we have a serious history of diabetes and heart disease in our family. So to prevent upcoming issues, I'm trying to change my eating habits. Not easy, but necessary.

So... I'll never be a skinny little thing, I'll always be an in-betweener.... which is okay with me. But it does get tiring hearing "you're not big enough" from the FA's.

I am who I am.... isn't that good enough??

[GutsGirl]

Another in-betweener here... And it all depends on who I'm speaking with. Nearly every FA I've had contact with, thinks that I'm "MUCH" too small and need to gain at least 50+ pounds. My boyfriends keeps telling me that I'm not as big as I think I am, and he loves me just the way I am. (Yay me!)

Per doctor's orders though, I've got to lose. I'm starting to have hip problems and am borderline diabetic and we have a serious history of diabetes and heart disease in our family. So to prevent upcoming issues, I'm trying to change my eating habits. Not easy, but necessary.

So... I'll never be a skinny little thing, I'll always be an in-betweener.... which is okay with me. But it does get tiring hearing "you're not big enough" from the FA's.

I am who I am.... isn't that good enough??

Yeah, I'd say it is. :)

I'm 5'6" and (currently, or should I say last time I checked) 165.6 lbs. I'm not skinny and judging by the BMI I'm 'overweight' for my height, but really I guess I'm more average. My guy is an FA, 'bisizual', and seems to just love plumpness in a woman, whether a little or a lot.

Meeting my boyfriend and finding the size acceptance community has in many ways been an incredible boon to my self-image and self-esteem, but sometimes I wonder where I fit in in the FA attraction continuum as a whole, and in my boyfriend's particular spectrum of attraction to larger women. Sometimes I feel very fat (to myself) -- I look at my thighs and I think 'damn, these are some nice, thick, fat thighs!' Yet when I look at other, larger girls, I feel more slender, especially in areas like my belly and back.

So I'm wondering about the fate of the 'average' woman in America. As the average size goes up, will -- or has -- the definition/label of BBW in the size-acceptance/fat acceptance community expand to embrace the average-sized plump woman (as it has for adult-oriented BBW sites, where women my size and even under are labeled as BBWs and plumpers) or will it shrink to include only women of a certain weight or look? I don't really know -- I'm just musing out loud.

I realize that I'm probably too slender for a lot of FAs, and yet I'm probably too fat for a lot of non-FAs. So I'm grateful that I have the great guy I'm with now -- he accepts me for who I am as a person and as a woman, and loves how I look and feel -- all of me!

[Violet_Beauregard]

My feelings exactly. You make some VERY valid musings and definitely food for thought.

I know Dimensions is all about fat-acceptance and size-acceptance... but I personally don't like to be defined by my size.... I prefer to be defined by the person that I am. Don't get me wrong... I like to look good... and I want people to think I look good. And I think people should feel good about themselves and their appearance, but I'd like to see everyone defined the same way.... for the people that they are... the whole package: inside and out, and for how they live their lives and treat others, not just what they look like. :)



Yeah, I'd say it is. :)

I'm 5'6" and (currently, or should I say last time I checked) 165.6 lbs. I'm not skinny and judging by the BMI I'm 'overweight' for my height, but really I guess I'm more average. My guy is an FA, 'bisizual', and seems to just love plumpness in a woman, whether a little or a lot.

Meeting my boyfriend and finding the size acceptance community has in many ways been an incredible boon to my self-image and self-esteem, but sometimes I wonder where I fit in in the FA attraction continuum as a whole, and in my boyfriend's particular spectrum of attraction to larger women. Sometimes I feel very fat (to myself) -- I look at my thighs and I think 'damn, these are some nice, thick, fat thighs!' Yet when I look at other, larger girls, I feel more slender, especially in areas like my belly and back.

So I'm wondering about the fate of the 'average' woman in America. As the average size goes up, will -- or has -- the definition/label of BBW in the size-acceptance/fat acceptance community expand to embrace the average-sized plump woman (as it has for adult-oriented BBW sites, where women my size and even under are labeled as BBWs and plumpers) or will it shrink to include only women of a certain weight or look? I don't really know -- I'm just musing out loud.

I realize that I'm probably too slender for a lot of FAs, and yet I'm probably too fat for a lot of non-FAs. So I'm grateful that I have the great guy I'm with now -- he accepts me for who I am as a person and as a woman, and loves how I look and feel -- all of me!