Where do you get the energy?

[Carl1h]

Where do people get the energy for all the hatred and animosity that goes back and forth here? Aren't the other people here basically your people? The people that are on your team? Yet you act like, come the revolution these are the first people you would line up against the wall. I realize that human nature is that way and that history is full of examples of people turning first against the people with whom they have the most in common, but that is supposed to be a lesson to be learned from rather than an example to be followed.

You don't have to respond in the defensive/aggressive/hateful way you do because someone else provoked you. You provoke them or someone else and they provoke and you provoke and then, soon enough, you have 11 pages of self righteous hate that should embarrass you to look back on.

Instead of thinking about all the ways that you hate what someone said or just all the ways you hate that someone, think instead about what they are trying to say and what you have in common with them. Spend fifteen minutes thinking about what was said rather than trying to respond to as many separate posts as possible. If it isn't worth time to think about what someone wrote, move on to something worth consideration.

Or, hey, conflict is entertainment. Thoughtless is easier than thoughtful. Every fight needs to be fought. Hatred keeps you warm at night. Piss where you eat.

[Inhibited]

I agree think everyone should Hug it out:) Think it is great we all have different opinions but they can be expressed with out the aggression and hate.

[mergirl]

Redbull. ;)

[TallFatSue]

Chocolate. :eat2:

[Santaclear]

If it isn't worth time to think about what someone wrote, move on to something worth consideration.

I obsessed over your post for two hours.

[TallFatSue]

Chocolate. :eat2:
PS. I try neither to attack nor to annoy the rest of the fine folks in Dimensions, but I'm only human so I don't always succeed, and sometimes I do get carried away. However one very big lesson I have learned this year to keep the sordid details of my daily life as a very fat woman out of the forums.

It seems perfectly okay to share struggles, which I try to bear with my warped sense of humor. For example last year pretty much sucked. To cite only one example, when my boss was away on medical leave last year, his temporary replacement was a royal jerk who tried to throw his weight around because he was related somehow to one of the big muckymucks. He went too far when he watched me haul myself out of a chair and quipped, "Need a crane, do we?" I shot back, "Only if it has a wrecking ball with your name on it." Let's just say he was a real card, and he was soon dealt with, by the very highly-placed relative he tried to fall back on. :rolleyes:

Fortunately this year I've also had a series of amazingly good experiences which I assumed ye olde forum would also enjoy hearing about. Unfortunately a certain vocal few have told me in no uncertain terms they view me as bragging. :confused:

Therefore I've decided to let discretion be the better part of valor and write only in broad generalities. That's perfectly fine too, and it conserves energy. ;)

[LoveBHMS]

The simple fact seems to be that some people come here for the purpose of displaying hatred and animosity.

I forgot who first suggested this, (I think it may have been Sandie Zitkus but I'm not sure) but there's a school of thought that some posters here are trying to recreate crappy environments they had as kids. They were bullied so they come here and bully. Or even they have crappy environments now where they feel powerless or unappreciated or lonely, so they come here and join with others and gang up on other posters because it's like the one chance they've had in their lives to be assholes where somebody has their back.

Far too many people who were once active here have either left or rarely post anymore due to that behaviour. The more good ones who leave, the more power the jerks gets because they're moving from being a vocal minority to being a vocal majority. Some of the most prolific posters here clearly take pleasure in scouting the boards for posts they can ridicule, derail discussions that might be important to those participating in them, or barring that---just generally throw out verbal beatdowns to posts just because they can. There's a decent sized group here who inexplicably seem have something to say about everything. Yes most of the forums are open to anyone who wants to post there, but at some point it becomes ridiculous when non-fetishists are all over the Weight Board and non-FFAs are all over the BHM board and there are even people whose obsession with ridiculing everything goes to the point of posting on a thread on the health forum devoted to discussion of exercise that (ha ha ha) "today I walked to McDonalds" or "today I walked to the corner store to buy cigarettes". I mean seriously....posting on the Health Forum about buying junk food and cigarettes is just unecessary.

At the end of the day, this is just an internet site, and eventually when it becomes nothing but a landmine where you have to worry about every post becoming a target for somebody's snark, attacks, purposeful misunderstanding, or belittlement you just stop bothering with it.

[TallFatSue]

Agreed. And many of us come here to create a positive atmosphere, and share experiences with other people who are very round pegs living in a world designed for squares. If that results in a label as an annoying cheerful roly-poly Pollyanna, I'll take it. ;)

There's something to be said for that old saw that if life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Except methinx that aims too low. My theory is that if life gives me lemons, make lemon meringue pie! :eat2:

[bigjayne66]

I agree think everyone should Hug it out:) Think it is great we all have different opinions but they can be expressed with out the aggression and hate.

I totally agree,make love not war...

[cinnamitch]

I want to make this reply as respectful as i can. Now i will preface this with saying this is only MY opinion but you did ask an honest question so let me try for my honest answer. First off i do not look at any of this as HATRED. Anger, some hostility, yes, Hatred no. How do you realistically hate someone who is on the other side of a computer screen. Yes there are people here that i don't care to see their comments, but would i slap them silly if i saw them on the street? No way. Yes there is a lot of anger from both sides. On one side is the so called board police, harpies, COF, whatever little thing someone decides to call them this week. Then you have the other camp who doesn't like the first camp because they are allegedly trying to sap all the fun out of the site. What it honestly is people is that there are some of us who want more out of this site. We wanted acceptance, we wanted to be able to have topics with substance, we wanted to be able to feel safe and free in here. Then comes the let down. Certain things are off limits in talk, yet when complaints were made about a questionable story in the library, you would have thought we were the second coming of Hitler. Being accused of wanting to ban everything. There are women here who don't want to be in the cleavage thread, have no interest in the "have a cookie and gain a few " comments, and we really get tired of having to put up with totally inappropriate behavior from the so called "new" FA's just because they don't know how to act. Most men here can honestly say if their mom had heard them talk to a woman the way some of these guys do, they would have felt a belt to their butt. We try people we really do. Most of us stay out of the paysites, we don't do the library, we even try to leave the snarky comments alone. Yet every day someone makes a new dig to the Harpie contingent, and we are supposed to say yeaaaa. Most now can't even feel free to speak their mind on here anymore and that is truly sad. I have heard comments about some of them with so much rep and so many posts. People that is what keeps a site going is the amount of postings. You have to have an active board. If you didnt generate traffic this site wouldn't be here. Paysites can only do so much, then people want a bit more. Real conversations, laughs, cries, you name it. That is what makes a commmunity. Many of those so called harpies put money into this site with memberships to the clubhouse, because this was HOME. When i came here i finally felt i had a place where i could feel comfortable. The HARPIES were the ones who sent me encouraging words when i would post, they gave me rep. Can any of see some of the reasoning from the hurt and anger? It is hard to put so many different minded people on a site and not have problems. What is bad though is when you paint One specific group with the hate brush, when in reality if you honestly took the time to step back and see the posts as something more than a personal attack, maybe all this hate talk would quiet down. I hope i haven't made anyone feel like they are a villain here, it was not my intent at all.


Where do people get the energy for all the hatred and animosity that goes back and forth here? Aren't the other people here basically your people? The people that are on your team? Yet you act like, come the revolution these are the first people you would line up against the wall. I realize that human nature is that way and that history is full of examples of people turning first against the people with whom they have the most in common, but that is supposed to be a lesson to be learned from rather than an example to be followed.

You don't have to respond in the defensive/aggressive/hateful way you do because someone else provoked you. You provoke them or someone else and they provoke and you provoke and then, soon enough, you have 11 pages of self righteous hate that should embarrass you to look back on.

Instead of thinking about all the ways that you hate what someone said or just all the ways you hate that someone, think instead about what they are trying to say and what you have in common with them. Spend fifteen minutes thinking about what was said rather than trying to respond to as many separate posts as possible. If it isn't worth time to think about what someone wrote, move on to something worth consideration.

Or, hey, conflict is entertainment. Thoughtless is easier than thoughtful. Every fight needs to be fought. Hatred keeps you warm at night. Piss where you eat.

[Dr. Feelgood]

What I like about dims is that it's just people being people. You occasionally get a tempest in a teapot because that's part of human behavior. I try to be courteous, but sometimes someone will take umbrage at what I say; that's to be expected, too, so I don't reply in kind. By and large, our posters are waaaay better behaved than the general populace; if you don't believe me, shut off your computer, go outside, and spend an evening rubbing elbows with your fellow citizens. But make sure you take a couple of band-aids. :rolleyes:

[mossystate]

Cinnamitch pretty much said it all.:bow: Some will toss her words aside, but, there you have it.

I personally stand next to mer, after she has had 6 red bull's.

[Teleute]

Warning: this is sort of brain-dump rambling on human interaction and dynamics. It's probably boring, basic, and way too PC. Read at your own risk :)

Carl, I agree with your sentiment, but I think you're asking the wrong question. I try to respond to things in a calm, non-snarky, gentle way, but it takes a LOT of work sometimes. I've been guilty a few times of snappy responses, and it's usually because I feel at the time like I've been banging my head against a wall - basically, it's because I run out of the energy and patience it takes to come up with a calm, measured response. It's not something I like doing; even though there is a momentary rush of satisfaction at having shown someone up and displayed how I understand some concept that they're totally missing, it does absolutely nothing in terms of getting that person to understand the concept, and they become shut off and defensive as soon as you start that type of response.

I generally feel that snark is most effectively deployed in an environment where people already agree with you; for instance, if someone here linked to an article that said "nobody really likes fat chicks, it's only guys who can't get laid otherwise that go for them", there would be a veritable chorus of eye-rolling and snarky comments about the article - and it would be a positive, sort of oddly bonding experience for everyone, a community acknowledgement that we know better and other people just don't get it. This is why snarky comments get such a positive response, both the sort of "bullying" and the negative responses to the "bullying" which frequently take the same approach. To those who already agree with your stance, it's the most obvious thing in the world, and seeing someone condense that sentiment into a witty phrase is intensely satisfying and makes you feel closer to them. It's also more satisfying as the poster; those times that I have snapped and posted something I'm not proud of, I've gotten a TON more rep than all the times I've posted something calm and reasonable. It makes sense - to everyone who already gets the concept I'm posting about, it seems like I'm just rehashing something really basic and obvious, and the fact that the person I'm responding to DOESN'T get it means that they are either incredibly dense or they just don't care. I don't think that's actually the case, which is why I continue to try to explain and reason with people (probably to the intense frustration and eye-rolling of everyone who DOES already get it - sorry guys), but I think it's easy to fall for the positive-reinforcement lure of snarky comments.

That said, I also don't think anyone has a "responsibility" to educate those who don't get the concepts they see as obvious. Like I said, it's a lot of work coming up with a calm response sometimes, and nobody "owes" that to strangers on the internet. I do it because I really enjoy seeing someone learn, apologize, and then go on to become a functional and contributing member of the community (it's probably my otherwise-nonexistent maternal instinct coming into play), but that's definitely my own personal motivation, and doesn't apply to anyone else. I would certainly prefer it if there were less snark around, because I think it's divisive and not terribly effective in a mixed crowd (plus it makes my approach harder, because it puts the target on the defensive). Then again, it can be really hard to go with the "well, just ignore it if you don't like it" tactic if it's something you feel strongly about, as it can feel (although I don't think this is actually the case) like you're giving implicit approval to a statement by allowing it to stand without comment. For instance, if someone made a thread saying "man, slavery was awesome, we should totally go back to that", most people would have a pretty damn hard time staying silent about it! The biggest problem comes when the lines are fuzzier - when the topic at hand is more contentious or based on a sphere of existence that differs from your own (as an example, BDSM seems pretty objectively negative to someone on the outside - but it's incredibly emotionally powerful and an intense expression of positive feelings to those on the inside). It's sometimes hard to judge whether the offensive thing someone's saying is because they're uninformed, dumb, a jerk, or just from a different background/viewpoint that might entirely change the meaning of the statement. Everyone's got a "default" assumption about this, and it completely changes how you see the person; I assume uninformed/different background, but many people assume dumb/jerk. Then suddenly everyone's not in agreement anymore, and you've got a big division in the community. This is why I favor the "try to ignore it" approach, although I know why it can be difficult at times. This is also why I like the specific subforums - it helps place things into the "different background" category. I can pretty much ignore anything I might find offensive on the "erotic weight gain" subforum, because I know everyone who's posting there is coming from a different viewpoint than I am. If I do go into that forum, it's with an open mind and a curiosity about the experiences and interests of other people (yeah yeah, I'm nosy as fuck :rolleyes: I have a great fascination with what makes people tick), not with judgement or assumptions about their motivation.

Blargh, that was ramble-tastic. Probably didn't clarify things one bit, but with all the discussion of the "hate" on the board lately, I thought it would be good to explore the reasoning behind both sides and give people a little more to take into consideration than "wtf people are so bitchy" and "wtf I can't believe people think this stuff is okay", because it's way more complex than that. Sorry if you were just looking to let off some steam and I took things way off-point :)

[superodalisque]

thank you Carl! occassionally people need to be shaken back to reality.

[Santaclear]

I come here more for the people and to have FUN than anything else.

I think removing Hyde Park ended up being a serious blow to our sense of community here. How much can one really talk about ONLY a fetish? The scope has been increasingly narrower. Also in the nearly nine years I've been here I've never seen people wave a Fetish Flag until just lately, and there was never the idea that you MUST be a proud card-carrying fetishist to post on the Weight Board. :p

[tonynyc]

I come here more for the people and to have FUN than anything else.

I think removing Hyde Park ended up being a serious blow to our sense of community here. How much can one really talk about ONLY a fetish? The scope has been increasingly narrower. Also in the nearly nine years I've been here I've never seen people wave a Fetish Flag until just lately, and there was never the idea that you MUST be a proud card-carrying fetishist to post on the Weight Board. :p

Who are you and where the hell is Santa- you know the guy with the Beard????? What did u do with him????

[bigsexy920]

Ok I know this is a serious conversation but everytime I see the thread heading. I want to answer ham sandwiches.

[Santaclear]

Who are you and where the hell is Santa- you know the guy with the Beard????? What did u do with him????

Ok I know this is a serious conversation but everytime I see the thread heading. I want to answer ham sandwiches.

OK, now you did it.

THIS is where most of my energy comes from. :blush:

[bigsexy920]

Ok so you are a pastrami sort of guy. Side note .... I love harolds pastrami its so good.

[tonynyc]

OK, now you did it.

THIS is where I get my energy. :blush:

Santa See you want to use that energy to spread good food cheer- damn that sandwich is making me hungry. Yes you are the real Santa cause you alone would know about Pastrami Goodness :eat2:

Sorry BigSexy920-but, Pastrami goodness Trumps Ham :happy:

Carl Now I would have to add one thing to your point.. it's not so much the hateness -but, dislike. I guess this is something that can happen in a growing group such as ours. Everyone has diverse interest & desires. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to get along .. and like in real life... the challenge is how we can tolerate others differences and coexist.

[superodalisque]

I come here more for the people and to have FUN than anything else.

I think removing Hyde Park ended up being a serious blow to our sense of community here. How much can one really talk about ONLY a fetish? The scope has been increasingly narrower. Also in the nearly nine years I've been here I've never seen people wave a Fetish Flag until just lately, and there was never the idea that you MUST be a proud card-carrying fetishist to post on the Weight Board. :p

yes it is kind of nutty how one faceted things have become. part of the problem though is that when the nastiness gets out of hand and people go a bit nuts actions are taken to try and curb it, but it ends up making it worse. the problem isn't hyde park. its why hyde park had to be created in the first place and how immaturally people acted in there--and now out in the forums as a whole. the idea that people can't disagree and be respectful is the whole problem. the poor fetishist have to have somewhere to go since they face a lot of intolerance everywhere else. i kinda feel sorry for them. after all thier fetish does not have to hurt anybody. instead of demonizing fetishist i think people need to start taking responsibility for keeping thier own comfort level up and not succumbing to pressure. after all no one can do anythng to you that you don't let them do.

[Fascinita]

Who are you and where the hell is Santa- you know the guy with the Beard????? What did u do with him????

Santaclaus is quite a hottie :smitten:

PS - I get my energy from giant slices of cheesecake

http://www.onlineweblibrary.com/news/largest-cheesecake.jpg

PPS- Carl1h, I remember a time when you were involved in--heck, even initiated--quite the forum fracas, or two. So I'm taking your post with a giant grain of salt.

It seems to me you're interested in chastising. Well, nobody's all bad, and this painting of people as just these angry, nasty pissers maybe says more about the mood you were in last night than about the people you find offensive. The last couple of lines are particularly telling.

No matter. It's your prerogative to post.

Cheesecake! Gobs and gobs of cheesecake.

[Santaclear]

the problem isn't hyde park. its why hyde park had to be created in the first place and how immaturally people acted in there--and now out in the forums as a whole. the idea that people can't disagree and be respectful is the whole problem. the poor fetishist have to have somewhere to go since they face a lot of intolerance everywhere else. i kinda feel sorry for them. after all their fetish does not have to hurt anybody. instead of demonizing fetishist i think people need to start taking responsibility for keeping thier own comfort level up and not succumbing to pressure. after all no one can do anythng to you that you don't let them do.

I only mean that Hyde Park enabled us to talk about something else than being fat or getting fatter. We all know that we're here 'cos of either being fat/attracted to fat people/attracted to fat.

Of course poor fetishists go to the Weight Board, they always were there and no one's trying to drive them off. Only now are we seeing the idea that you CAN'T be or post there unless you're a "fetishist" and that there can be no disagreement. Cult think, anyone?

[tonynyc]

Santaclaus is quite a hottie :smitten:

PS - I get my energy from giant slices of cheesecake

http://www.onlineweblibrary.com/news/largest-cheesecake.jpg

PPS- Carl1h, I remember a time when you were involved in quite the forum fracas, or two. So I'm taking your post with a giant grain of salt.

It seems to me you're interested in chastising. Well, nobody's all bad, and this painting of people as just these angry, nasty pissers maybe says more about you than about them. The last couple of lines are particularly telling.

No matter. It's your prerogative to post.

Cheesecake! Gobs and gobs of cheesecake.

Well if one were to argue and fight - we do need the energy & plenty of cheesecake goodness - looks like a big enough cake for everyone to share in ...

[Fascinita]

we do need the energy & plenty of cheesecake goodness - looks like a big enough cake for everyone to share in ...

Exactly! :eat2: :eat1:

[BeautifulPoeticDisaster]

This is where everyone should get their energy. Though I want what Santa and Fascinita had. yum freakin yum.

You know..."the bullies" wouldn't have anyone to "bully" if no one engaged them or fought with them, whoever them are.

[Ned Sonntag]

Consider the source & check out Carl's avatar... he lives in the next trailer over from Art Bell and gets his energy from a Tesla Coil.:eek::rolleyes::):bow:

[BeautifulPoeticDisaster]

Consider the source & check out Carl's avatar... he lives in the next trailer over from Art Bell and gets his energy from a Tesla Coil.:eek::rolleyes::):bow:

Yes but what song is the Tesla Coil playing?

[mossystate]

I have half a ham shank in the oven.

Around midnight...I should have quite the hefty helpin' of energy!


:bow:

:bow:

:bow:

[bigsexy920]

mmmmmmm ham at midnight .... what more can a girl ask for?

[mossystate]

My apartment smells so good, I wanna lick the walls.

[Mathias]

Play some video games. They work wonders for me when I'm stressed.

[Blackjack]

I distill my energy from passive-agressive posts.

[exile in thighville]

it's why i limit nasty quips to one-liners

[Dr. P Marshall]

Never mind.

[chicken legs]

Never mind.

lol....


I deal with the social tards as needed. Like when a friend's zipper is down..if your a good friend you tell them..if you dont like them so much..well..you still tell them.:p...and if they dont believe you..you leave them alone.

[superodalisque]

This is where everyone should get their energy. Though I want what Santa and Fascinita had. yum freakin yum.

You know..."the bullies" wouldn't have anyone to "bully" if no one engaged them or fought with them, whoever them are.

are you kidding? those are low fat! ;)

[LoveBHMS]

What this comes down to is respect. No you don't have to be a fetishist to post on the Weight Board, but you can't make fun of it and you can't use it as a source of amusement where you invite your friends to come over and either makes jokes about what's on there or to tell somebody who's expressed something they find sexually arousing that they're wrong.

There are people who believe homosexuality can be 'cured' or that gays can change. You're well within your rights to believe that, but you're not within your rights to post about it on the LGBT board unless there is a very specific invitation to do so. If somebody starts a thread along the lines of "Do you think homosexuals or transgenders can change their orientation" then yes it's appropriate, but otherwise no.

There is no written rule that the clothing board has to be about plus sized clothing, but the size 16 and under FFAs don't post all over there offering coupon codes to The Gap or Bebe because it's not the place for it.

There is not even any specific rule that you have to be an FA or a fat person to post here, but for the most part offering conflicting "opinions" about the beauty of Halle Berry or Holly Madison or Jennifer Garner aren't really welcome.

Also in the nearly nine years I've been here I've never seen people wave a Fetish Flag until just lately, and there was never the idea that you MUST be a proud card-carrying fetishist to post on the Weight Board.

In just the past week, this board has had a gaining SSBBW who said she enjoyed certain types of name calling be told that "it was inconceivable" that anyone would enjoy it. We've had a discussion about humiliation stories in the Fiction threads where three fat people said they enjoyed them and were flat out ignored. We've had an FA go to the fat sexuality board and say he finds a certain thing to be sexually exciting (a SSBBW struggling to get out of a car) and get ripped to shreds for it. So in the face of all that, maybe the Fetish Flag is getting pulled out just a bit more because people are feeling attacked.

Only now are we seeing the idea that you CAN'T be or post there unless you're a "fetishist" and that there can be no disagreement. Cult think, anyone?

Cult think? You could make the argument this whole board is cult think. But beyond that, no...there can't be disagreement because there is nothing to disagree about. If somebody is talking about their sexuality it's not up for discussion as to whether or not you approve. You can approve or disapprove of behaviour, but not feelings. Nobody wants to talk about fetishism anyplace but the Weight Board, it's just that we'd like to be able to actually talk about it on the Weight Board without having to defend it.

The constant refrain of "we're just having fun here!" is getting old. When your fun has to come at the expense of others then it's a problem. How would it be if somebody posted on the clothing board looking for a source for a plus size coat and somebody posted a photo of a tent store. Funny? No it's not.

[LoveBHMS]

What this comes down to is respect. No you don't have to be a fetishist to post on the Weight Board, but you can't make fun of it and you can't use it as a source of amusement where you invite your friends to come over and either makes jokes about what's on there or to tell somebody who's expressed something they find sexually arousing that they're wrong.

There are people who believe homosexuality can be 'cured' or that gays can change. You're well within your rights to believe that, but you're not within your rights to post about it on the LGBT board unless there is a very specific invitation to do so. If somebody starts a thread along the lines of "Do you think homosexuals or transgenders can change their orientation" then yes it's appropriate, but otherwise no.

There is no written rule that the clothing board has to be about plus sized clothing, but the size 16 and under FFAs don't post all over there offering coupon codes to The Gap or Bebe because it's not the place for it.

There is not even any specific rule that you have to be an FA or a fat person to post here, but for the most part offering conflicting "opinions" about the beauty of Halle Berry or Holly Madison or Jennifer Garner aren't really welcome.

Also in the nearly nine years I've been here I've never seen people wave a Fetish Flag until just lately, and there was never the idea that you MUST be a proud card-carrying fetishist to post on the Weight Board.

In just the past week, this board has had a gaining SSBBW who said she enjoyed certain types of name calling be told that "it was inconceivable" that anyone would enjoy it. We've had a discussion about humiliation stories in the Fiction threads where three fat people said they enjoyed them and were flat out ignored. We've had an FA go to the fat sexuality board and say he finds a certain thing to be sexually exciting (a SSBBW struggling to get out of a car) and get ripped to shreds for it. So in the face of all that, maybe the Fetish Flag is getting pulled out just a bit more because people are feeling attacked.

Only now are we seeing the idea that you CAN'T be or post there unless you're a "fetishist" and that there can be no disagreement. Cult think, anyone?

Cult think? You could make the argument this whole board is cult think. But beyond that, no...there can't be disagreement because there is nothing to disagree about. If somebody is talking about their sexuality it's not up for discussion as to whether or not you approve. You can approve or disapprove of behaviour, but not feelings. Nobody wants to talk about fetishism anyplace but the Weight Board, it's just that we'd like to be able to actually talk about it on the Weight Board without having to defend it.

The constant refrain of "we're just having fun here!" is getting old. When your fun has to come at the expense of others then it's a problem. How would it be if somebody posted on the clothing board looking for a source for a plus size coat and somebody posted a photo of a tent store. Funny? No it's not.

[Shosh]

What this comes down to is respect. No you don't have to be a fetishist to post on the Weight Board, but you can't make fun of it and you can't use it as a source of amusement where you invite your friends to come over and either makes jokes about what's on there or to tell somebody who's expressed something they find sexually arousing that they're wrong.

There are people who believe homosexuality can be 'cured' or that gays can change. You're well within your rights to believe that, but you're not within your rights to post about it on the LGBT board unless there is a very specific invitation to do so. If somebody starts a thread along the lines of "Do you think homosexuals or transgenders can change their orientation" then yes it's appropriate, but otherwise no.

There is no written rule that the clothing board has to be about plus sized clothing, but the size 16 and under FFAs don't post all over there offering coupon codes to The Gap or Bebe because it's not the place for it.

There is not even any specific rule that you have to be an FA or a fat person to post here, but for the most part offering conflicting "opinions" about the beauty of Halle Berry or Holly Madison or Jennifer Garner aren't really welcome.



In just the past week, this board has had a gaining SSBBW who said she enjoyed certain types of name calling be told that "it was inconceivable" that anyone would enjoy it. We've had a discussion about humiliation stories in the Fiction threads where three fat people said they enjoyed them and were flat out ignored. We've had an FA go to the fat sexuality board and say he finds a certain thing to be sexually exciting (a SSBBW struggling to get out of a car) and get ripped to shreds for it. So in the face of all that, maybe the Fetish Flag is getting pulled out just a bit more because people are feeling attacked.



Cult think? You could make the argument this whole board is cult think. But beyond that, no...there can't be disagreement because there is nothing to disagree about. If somebody is talking about their sexuality it's not up for discussion as to whether or not you approve. You can approve or disapprove of behaviour, but not feelings. Nobody wants to talk about fetishism anyplace but the Weight Board, it's just that we'd like to be able to actually talk about it on the Weight Board without having to defend it.

The constant refrain of "we're just having fun here!" is getting old. When your fun has to come at the expense of others then it's a problem. How would it be if somebody posted on the clothing board looking for a source for a plus size coat and somebody posted a photo of a tent store. Funny? No it's not.

Mate no offense, but you have been getting up on your high horse quite a lot lately.
You have made mistakes yourself.

Randi said they are formulating new rules for the weight board, so can we leave it at that?

Oy Va Voy.

[mergirl]

Oy Va Voy.

I concur!!

[Hathor]

Did I miss something?

[LoveBHMS]

People have the right to defend themselves when they and others like them are being disrespected.

When the same people who express a need for community and a safe haven to discuss matters that the "outside world" doesn't get, refuse to offer that same chance to others, that is when problems start.

This is not just about the Weight Board, it is about a general lack of the "live and let live" mentality that should be more prevalent here. If you come here for fun and community and the friends you meet, why not pursue those things in a positive manner rather than attacking people discussing matters that don't concern you.

One thing I really don't understand is this supposed need to "understand" everything and everyone. If a fat person says "I like humiliation fiction stories" then just let them enjoy the stories. If a fat person likes name calling and you think name calling is awful, you don't need to share that fact, just let the person who thinks it's hot to express herself. If you don't understand how or why an FA can get off on a certain aspect of watching SSBBWs in the world, then just leave it at shaking your head and saying "I don't get it."

There are lots of things I don't like, but I don't find it necessary to inquire of others as to why they do.

[KHayes666]

give me a wine glass of Dr. Pepper and bring on the U.T.O.C.

[mergirl]

People have the right to defend themselves when they and others like them are being disrespected.

When the same people who express a need for community and a safe haven to discuss matters that the "outside world" doesn't get, refuse to offer that same chance to others, that is when problems start.

This is not just about the Weight Board, it is about a general lack of the "live and let live" mentality that should be more prevalent here. If you come here for fun and community and the friends you meet, why not pursue those things in a positive manner rather than attacking people discussing matters that don't concern you.

One thing I really don't understand is this supposed need to "understand" everything and everyone. If a fat person says "I like humiliation fiction stories" then just let them enjoy the stories. If a fat person likes name calling and you think name calling is awful, you don't need to share that fact, just let the person who thinks it's hot to express herself. If you don't understand how or why an FA can get off on a certain aspect of watching SSBBWs in the world, then just leave it at shaking your head and saying "I don't get it."

There are lots of things I don't like, but I don't find it necessary to inquire of others as to why they do.
I think partly its the hypocrocy that people have a problem with. As far as fetish goes here.. well anything goes; people being so fat they lie in their own shit, calling a woman a fat pig and hopes she dies of a heart attack and up until recently pedophillia. This talk is allowed- live and let live in the appropriate spaces you say. Sure. Then why is wls banned from being discussed? Even in a small space of these boards.. This is something that fat people 'actually', in their real lives are faced with.. and its not even allowed to be talked about here. To me this seems strange. I recently had a post closed because i wanted to discuss Compulsive eating and support groups. Things that fat people actually have to face in their lives are not being talked about. Fat people are being silenced. Though when it comes to people being allowed to talk about fat people being humiliated and hurt, then its a bloody free for all. You go on about YOUR rights as a fetishist to be able to express what turns you on. What about fighting for the rights of the fat people that you are supposedly ment to love to be able to speak out about the issues that actually affect them in real life??
I don't think anyone has a problem with expression of fetishism as long as (in many cases) they dont have to be subjected to it, as to many it is hurtful.. I think people are just tired of being seen as pieces of meat, when their rights are swept out of the way to save turning off fetishist. Which if we are honest, it what is happening here.
Why are fat people issues taboo and banned here when pretty extreme fetishist stuff is allowed do you think?

[KHayes666]

Why are fat people issues taboo and banned here when pretty extreme fetishist stuff is allowed do you think?

Good question.

In my opinion, its because a lot of threads derail into a bitchfest due to certain members simply can't leave some things the hell alone.

In the case of extreme fetishes, the subject matter may be bizarre but everyone seems to be on the same page. The threads only derail when someone disrupts the momentum with a rude, sarcastic or nasty comment such as "I can't see how you people like this" The mods allow a lot of leeway but when personal attacks and fights break out, they have to step in. If there was a thread out there that had to do with giving your S.O. an enema and there wasn't a personal attack, it may be bizarre but at least feelings aren't hurt.

The taboo issues are sometimes banned because it covers a much broader capacity and EVERYONE has different opinions on it. Again, some people can't handle someone else having a different opinion and they go beserk, spawning another fight.

Its all about personal attacks and finger pointing, when a thread gets to that point...time to shut it down.

[mergirl]

The taboo issues are sometimes banned because it covers a much broader capacity and EVERYONE has different opinions on it. Again, some people can't handle someone else having a different opinion and they go beserk, spawning another fight.

Its all about personal attacks and finger pointing, when a thread gets to that point...time to shut it down.

Though, with that rational the fetish related threads would be banned too because everyone has differing oppinions on them. Yeah, i agree that its a shame when an interesting disscussion gets shut down because of in arguing. Though some issues (The fat related ones i mentioned earlier) are never even given the chance to be discussed. Why do you think that is??

[LoveBHMS]

I think partly its the hypocrocy that people have a problem with. As far as fetish goes here.. well anything goes; people being so fat they lie in their own shit, calling a woman a fat pig and hopes she dies of a heart attack and up until recently pedophillia. This talk is allowed- live and let live in the appropriate spaces you say. Sure. Then why is wls banned from being discussed? Even in a small space of these boards.. This is something that fat people 'actually', in their real lives are faced with.. and its not even allowed to be talked about here. To me this seems strange. I recently had a post closed because i wanted to discuss Compulsive eating and support groups. Things that fat people actually have to face in their lives are not being talked about. Fat people are being silenced. Though when it comes to people being allowed to talk about fat people being humiliated and hurt, then its a bloody free for all. You go on about YOUR rights as a fetishist to be able to express what turns you on. What about fighting for the rights of the fat people that you are supposedly ment to love to be able to speak out about the issues that actually affect them in real life??
I don't think anyone has a problem with expression of fetishism as long as (in many cases) they dont have to be subjected to it, as to many it is hurtful.. I think people are just tired of being seen as pieces of meat, when their rights are swept out of the way to save turning off fetishist. Which if we are honest, it what is happening here.
Why are fat people issues taboo and banned here when pretty extreme fetishist stuff is allowed do you think?

Well for one thing, there IS a discussion board for WLS.

For another, I personally do think that the Health Board should allow weight loss discussion. There are numerous issues specific to fat people (or SS people) that might be out of place or misunderstood in a traditional weight loss support environment. I'm thinking about issues such as somebody wanting to lose weight to go from 500 to 300 but not wanting to be thin, worrying about if an FA partner will lose interest, or worrying about whether cardio equipment in a gym can hold their weight. Those discussions would be lacking at Weight Watchers or Jenny Craig.

But be that as it may, just because this board is for fat people, it doesn't mean there are not going to be rules. It's not written anywhere that so long as you're fat you can talk about anything you want. I'm not familiar with the thread you're referring to, but I know there have been discussions about compulsive eating disorder/binge eating disorder/ and Overeaters Anonymous. OA in fact ITSELF says it's not a diet group, so I don't see why it would not be allowed on here.

I don't see any fetishists trying to silence anyone. I don't see any of us saying "We wanna talk about women dying of heart attacks but the fat women need to shut it when it comes to their own health". Nobody has said that. Nobody wants to silence you, we just don't want to be attacked when we have a discussion somebody doesn't understand or finds offputting.

And keep in mind, the only one who makes the rules here is Conrad, not the fetishists, FA, or the fat people. Saying "It's not fair you can have this while we can't have that" may be true, but we're not the ones enforcing the rules or closing threads.

[KHayes666]

Though, with that rational the fetish related threads would be banned too because everyone has differing oppinions on them. Yeah, i agree that its a shame when an interesting disscussion gets shut down because of in arguing. Though some issues (The fat related ones i mentioned earlier) are never even given the chance to be discussed. Why do you think that is??

Like I said....threads are only banned when things resort to personal attacks, finger pointing, or its an obvious wank thread.

A lot of issues can't be discussed without someone being smug in their opinion and completely ignoring the fact others have a different opinion than them. It leads to arguing and that's when a thread is closed. Its a shame but the blame isn't placed on the subject, its placed on the people who can't honor someone elses opinion respectfully.

A lot of the extreme fetish threads are well-behaved which is why they are hardly ever banned or closed, nothing to do with subject matter...everything to do with the people posting.

[mergirl]

Well for one thing, there IS a discussion board for WLS.

For another, I personally do think that the Health Board should allow weight loss discussion. There are numerous issues specific to fat people (or SS people) that might be out of place or misunderstood in a traditional weight loss support environment. I'm thinking about issues such as somebody wanting to lose weight to go from 500 to 300 but not wanting to be thin, worrying about if an FA partner will lose interest, or worrying about whether cardio equipment in a gym can hold their weight. Those discussions would be lacking at Weight Watchers or Jenny Craig.

But be that as it may, just because this board is for fat people, it doesn't mean there are not going to be rules. It's not written anywhere that so long as you're fat you can talk about anything you want. I'm not familiar with the thread you're referring to, but I know there have been discussions about compulsive eating disorder/binge eating disorder/ and Overeaters Anonymous. OA in fact ITSELF says it's not a diet group, so I don't see why it would not be allowed on here.

I don't see any fetishists trying to silence anyone. I don't see any of us saying "We wanna talk about women dying of heart attacks but the fat women need to shut it when it comes to their own health". Nobody has said that. Nobody wants to silence you, we just don't want to be attacked when we have a discussion somebody doesn't understand or finds offputting.

And keep in mind, the only one who makes the rules here is Conrad, not the fetishists, FA, or the fat people. Saying "It's not fair you can have this while we can't have that" may be true, but we're not the ones enforcing the rules or closing threads.
The discussion board is to talk about the controversy of wls NOT people's experiences of it. Talking about your own experience is not allowed.
I don't expect for there not to be rules, i am asking why fat related issues which may be contentious to discuss such as wls are outright banned whereas fetish related topics that are also very contentious are allowed to be talked about freely.
You are right OA is not a diet group, but the mod didn't know that so banned the discussion..you are right, there is no reason eating disorders should not be talked about here.
I dont think 'fetishists' are trying to silence anyone and i never said that. You would think fetishists would be all for people talking about what they liked. I am saying Dimensions is silencing fat people. I understand you are in defence mode with your hackles raised but i really wasn't attacking fetishists i was explaining the disparity in the right to talk about issues pertaining to the 'group' you belong to and how that might make some people angry, less tolerant and hence less likely to live and let live.

[mergirl]

Like I said....threads are only banned when things resort to personal attacks, finger pointing, or its an obvious wank thread.

A lot of issues can't be discussed without someone being smug in their opinion and completely ignoring the fact others have a different opinion than them. It leads to arguing and that's when a thread is closed. Its a shame but the blame isn't placed on the subject, its placed on the people who can't honor someone elses opinion respectfully.

A lot of the extreme fetish threads are well-behaved which is why they are hardly ever banned or closed, nothing to do with subject matter...everything to do with the people posting.
Ahh..i was talking about the fact that subjects such as for example, WLS are not allowed to be discussed at all.. not ever. There are many people here that subjects such as these are a very relevant part of their lives but they are not allowed to be discusssed. When i said banned-i ment as part of the dims manifesto. ie Never to be discussed.

[LoveBHMS]

Yeah but mer, it's not a zero sum game. It's not as if there is only a finite amount of free speech to go around and the Weight Board is taking up more than its fair share. Our freedom to talk about feederism without being made fun of is not coming at the expense of anyone being able to talk about weight loss or Overeaters Anonymous.

And the truth is, I don't think the fetishists have the protection you seem to think we do. Sure we *can* post about getting off on SSBBW struggling to exit a car, but one post about it results in 8 pages of criticism and ridicule. Too many people with nothing positive to contribute hang around those boards making jokes about us. That's why everyone's hackles are up.

[Dr. P Marshall]

Ahh..i was talking about the fact that subjects such as for example, WLS are not allowed to be discussed at all.. not ever. There are many people here that subjects such as these are a very relevant part of their lives but they are not allowed to be discusssed. When i said banned-i ment as part of the dims manifesto. ie Never to be discussed.

I like you mer, you know that, but are you high? Have you even READ the titles in the WLS controversy board? Right now there are at least two threads titled "my wls journey", a thread called "I had wls on 4/11/09" a thread called "wls on a budget" and an article that actually talks about how wls can prevent a type of cancer. I can understand that the no diet talk rule upsets you, but if you're going to start looking for conspiracies, at least do a basic fact check.

And on the "no diet talk" note, I am another fetishist who happens to think the ban on it should be lifted, but you know what? I can't control it either. And all that has happened lately is that people have been misdirecting their anger at fetishists and some FAs in general, rather than trying to actually get rules changed or sorting out their personal issues with individual fetishists. When you use fetish as an insult, or throw out things like "fetish blows" or "you're too fetishy to have a sense of humor" or "oh no now everyone will think all FAs are fetishists" .....you've offended me and those like me. And that means you alienate people who would otherwise agree with you on certain issues. It's HOW people are fighting this fight that is the problem, not the fight itself. They are randomly insulting us and using our very identifier (and hence our sexuality- and it IS my ONLY sexuality for the record, not something I can just shrug off as so many here like to believe) as a synonym for "heartless/monster/pervert/detriment to SA/menace to fat people." Mer, you yourself just implied that the fetishists "don't speak up for the fat people they love." (I'm paraphrasing you, but still.....) REALLY? REALLY? I guess I have been misreading a lot of posts over the course of my time here. Or maybe people haven't been paying attention to which members do count as fetishists.

And the best part is, the fetishists and FAs that people have a problem with, the ones who DO only come here to objectify.....they don't even read these type of threads. So......the people who actually do have something to contribute and would normally care will just fade away and there will STILL be hundreds, if not thousands of "OMG so hot-:eat1:" posts here. I think everyone needs to rethink their strategy on this one.

Also, I suspect the reason your OA thread got closed was because you made it clear you were looking for alternatives and YOU brought up weight watchers as an example. I know diet talk was not your intention, but I could see how the mod would believe it could be left open to misinterpretation. Again, maybe everyone should just reread their posts before they hit submit, and get their facts straight and....oh yeah, have a discourse with Conrad about the rules, rather than running around telling him to "fuck off" and implying he's a misogynistic ass at every turn. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wouldn't be a discussion if he didn't keep this board running. I don't think it means people shouldn't debate his policies with him, but I think he at least deserves a little respect and courtesy and civil discussion of issues, rather than being railed against at every turn.

[mergirl]

I like you mer, you know that, but are you high? Have you even READ the titles in the WLS controversy board? Right now there are at least two threads titled "my wls journey", a thread called "I had wls on 4/11/09" a thread called "wls on a budget" and an article that actually talks about how wls can prevent a type of cancer. I can understand that the no diet talk rule upsets you, but if you're going to start looking for conspiracies, at least do a basic fact check.

And on the "no diet talk" note, I am another fetishist who happens to think the ban on it should be lifted, but you know what? I can't control it either. And all that has happened lately is that people have been misdirecting their anger at fetishists and some FAs in general, rather than trying to actually get rules changed or sorting out their personal issues with individual fetishists. When you use fetish as an insult, or throw out things like "fetish blows" or "you're too fetishy to have a sense of humor" or "oh no now everyone will think all FAs are fetishists" .....you've offended me and those like me. And that means you alienate people who would otherwise agree with you on certain issues. It's HOW people are fighting this fight that is the problem, not the fight itself. They are randomly insulting us and using our very identifier (and hence our sexuality- and it IS my ONLY sexuality for the record, not something I can just shrug off as so many here like to believe) as a synonym for "heartless/monster/pervert/detriment to SA/menace to fat people." Mer, you yourself just implied that the fetishists "don't speak up for the fat people they love." (I'm paraphrasing you, but still.....) REALLY? REALLY? I guess I have been misreading a lot of posts over the course of my time here. Or maybe people haven't been paying attention to which members do count as fetishists.

And the best part is, the fetishists and FAs that people have a problem with, the ones who DO only come here to objectify.....they don't even read these type of threads. So......the people who actually do have something to contribute and would normally care will just fade away and there will STILL be hundreds, if not thousands of "OMG so hot-:eat1:" posts here. I think everyone needs to rethink their strategy on this one.

Also, I suspect the reason your OA thread got closed was because you made it clear you were looking for alternatives and YOU brought up weight watchers as an example. I know diet talk was not your intention, but I could see how the mod would believe it could be left open to misinterpretation. Again, maybe everyone should just reread their posts before they hit submit, and get their facts straight and....oh yeah, have a discourse with Conrad about the rules, rather than running around telling him to "fuck off" and implying he's a misogynistic ass at every turn. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wouldn't be a discussion if he didn't keep this board running. I don't think it means people shouldn't debate his policies with him, but I think he at least deserves a little respect and courtesy and civil discussion of issues, rather than being railed against at every turn.
As an example- The post "I had wls on 4/11/9" was heavily censored. You are not allowed to talk about experiences of wls.. seriously. Ask those who have tried or who want to.
I don't want anger 'misdirected' at fetishists, this is why i bring up my opinions as to some of the reasons this might be happening and i believe that the fact Dimensions is more geared to talking about fetishistic subjects than it is 'fat related ones' may be one possible reason for this. I do agree with Lovesbhm that the fact this is the case doesn't mean that 'fetishists can talk about whatever they get off to, but i'm sure the new weight board rules will solve this problem so maby you will all just have to have a bit of patience and soon you will be able to talk about what you like in a protected forum. I think its a shame that these same rights wont be afforded to others in the community that want/need to share their experiences but i guess that is the way it rolls here.
I didn't imply that fetishists don't speak up for those they love Dr P. I stated that i thought Lovesbhm in particular should be sticking up for the rights of those people she loves. I was being specific, and asking her to look at the bigger picture regarding why people might not care so much of the rights of fetishist to have a cozy place to exist, when they themselves are not afforded the same rights.
I get that this is your sexuality, perhaps you have no-where else to go and i agree that not all fetishists should be painted with the same brush. No where have i stated otherwise. I agree that this is being fought in a way which is going around in circles, which is why i am trying to look at new angles which highlight why people feel unhappy right now and are talking about it, raging against it infact.
About correcting you if you are wrong. You are wrong. If this board wasn't running, fat people and their debates would still continue. I'm getting a bit tired of the old "if you don't like it fuck off", "Its conrads castle, what he says goes" etc etc etc....
If every fat person or person who was told to 'like it or lump it' left there would be no dimensions not the other way around. I think if fat people are continued to be treated as second class citizens here they will leave and then it will be realised that, Dimensions needs fat people more than fat people need dimensions.

[mergirl]

p.s. Also.. i like you too and am not infact high.

[Webmaster]

It's not hatred, it's something different. For want of another term I call it the "NAAFA Syndrome." In essence, whenever members of groups who are suppressed in society come together in what was created as a safe place, they tend to start attacking each other.

This puzzled me for years as I've seen it in other similar groups as well. At the time, it occurred to me that perhaps the primary purpose of NAAFA was not so much the stated goals, but to serve as sort of a sandbox where people can safely blow off steam and anger without instantly be disqualified because they are fat or prefer fat.

[LoveBHMS]

So far it seems the entirity of the silencing of the fat people is the limit on discussing WLS and the limit on discussing weight loss.

I've said that I personally support those things, but it's not my call.

Beyond those two examples, show me where fat people are being silenced? Seems to me they're all over the place discussing airline seating, coupon codes at Torrid, what to wear to the next Bash, promoting paysites with fat women on them, and talking about Health At Any Size which is permitted. There is a protected BBW forum, a private 450+ forum, a "How To Date SSBBW" thread on the Weight Board with pages and pages of talk about considerations to make if you're with a SSBBW. There are picture threads to show off any and every fat body part and innumerable discussions aimed at helping fat people get through life in every area from job interview tips to help with getting seating accomodations at school. There is a sticky thread on the Health Board to find fat-friendly doctors and discussions about BBW dating sites.

So seriously? Where are you being silenced? Where are your needs going unmet?

[mergirl]

So far it seems the entirity of the silencing of the fat people is the limit on discussing WLS and the limit on discussing weight loss.

I've said that I personally support those things, but it's not my call.

Beyond those two examples, show me where fat people are being silenced? Seems to me they're all over the place discussing airline seating, coupon codes at Torrid, what to wear to the next Bash, promoting paysites with fat women on them, and talking about Health At Any Size which is permitted. There is a protected BBW forum, a private 450+ forum, a "How To Date SSBBW" thread on the Weight Board with pages and pages of talk about considerations to make if you're with a SSBBW. There are picture threads to show off any and every fat body part and innumerable discussions aimed at helping fat people get through life in every area from job interview tips to help with getting seating accomodations at school. There is a sticky thread on the Health Board to find fat-friendly doctors and discussions about BBW dating sites.

So seriously? Where are you being silenced? Where are your needs going unmet?
See i dont think you are getting where i am comming from here. Ok. It seems that fat people are being silenced on 'contentious' issues. (This is why i bring up wls and the like.) Now, whether or not this is the reality of the situation it makes it seem that any issue where a fat person may lose weight is frowned on because it is not conducive with what Fas (and fetishists) like. Weightloss IS a reality and sometimes a want or a need for many fat people but it is a banned subject here. Fetishist discussions, may be needed for many reasons, ie (Like Dr P said) It is their sexuality, there may be issues surrounding various sexualities/fetishes that need to be discussed etc etc. For some fat people these types of discussions are not conducive to what THEY like...turn them off, make them angry etc. I think one of the main issues here is that there is a disparity in the allowance of what is seen coversly (by both sides) as 'contentious' debate- With one 'side' being allowed to engage in what is deemed as distasteful etc by the other 'side' while one side is silenced. ..and they are silenced btw.. It doesnt matter if it is 'just' weightloss talk as far as fetish goes..then anything goes. I think this bothers people who feel they cant express thier reality as fat people in whatever way they feel they need to.

[Dr. P Marshall]

See i dont think you are getting where i am comming from here. Ok. It seems that fat people are being silenced on 'contentious' issues. (This is why i bring up wls and the like.) Now, whether or not this is the reality of the situation it makes it seem that any issue where a fat person may lose weight is frowned on because it is not conducive with what Fas (and fetishists) like. Weightloss IS a reality and sometimes a want or a need for many fat people but it is a banned subject here. Fetishist discussions, may be needed for many reasons, ie (Like Dr P said) It is their sexuality, there may be issues surrounding various sexualities/fetishes that need to be discussed etc etc. For some fat people these types of discussions are not conducive to what THEY like...turn them off, make them angry etc. I think one of the main issues here is that there is a disparity in the allowance of what is seen coversly (by both sides) as 'contentious' debate- With one 'side' being allowed to engage in what is deemed as distasteful etc by the other 'side' while one side is silenced. ..and they are silenced btw.. It doesnt matter if it is 'just' weightloss talk as far as fetish goes..then anything goes. I think this bothers people who feel they cant express thier reality as fat people in whatever way they feel they need to.
And again, you're fighting the fight with the wrong people. Loves does get where you're coming from. She just said she thinks the ban on weight loss talk should be lifted, I just said I thought the ban on weight loss talk should be lifted. What more is she supposed to say to make it clear that she shares your views on this?????

And please, reread what I wrote. I didn't mean that the conversation about being fat wouldn't exist without Dimensions, but the conversation about what happens on Dimensions would be moot if there was no board in the first place. And I would direct you to the part where I said I think people SHOULD debate the policies, but they should perhaps try doing it in a more civil manner and actually having the debate with the only person who can change things.

[Dr. P Marshall]

p.s. am not infact high.

I for one find this very disappointing news.:p;)

[mergirl]

And again, you're fighting the fight with the wrong people. Loves does get where you're coming from. She just said she thinks the ban on weight loss talk should be lifted, I just said I thought the ban on weight loss talk should be lifted. What more is she supposed to say to make it clear that she shares your views on this?????

And please, reread what I wrote. I didn't mean that the conversation about being fat wouldn't exist without Dimensions, but the conversation about what happens on Dimensions would be moot if there was no board in the first place. And I would direct you to the part where I said I think people SHOULD debate the policies, but they should perhaps try doing it in a more civil manner and actually having the debate with the only person who can change things.
I get that both of you want the ban on weightloss talk lifted. I don't think either of you are evil anti fat people mentalists because you are also 'fetishists'. I'm trying to explain one of the reasons i think there is so much conflict between 'fetishists' and non fetishist; That there is not equality when it comes to discussing issues. I don't blame you or Loves for this, i'm blaming here for this. It makes it seem that here is more geared towards fetish and less towards fat people. Which as you can imagine would make fat people upset and angry.

[mergirl]

I for one find this very disappointing news.:p;)
Give me time.. its still early. :D

[TraciJo67]

Dr. P, I respect your input in all things. This post is no exception. I agree with most of it.

My take on the whole "fetishist" issue, though, is that there are an awful lot of red herrings being tossed into the mix, and it makes it very difficult to see behind them to the real issues. I'm not so sure that people are actually against fetishists, or the expression of their desires. I do think that decorum matters, especially here. Unfortunately, a lot of women are going to feel that they are seen more as objects than as living, breathing people who happen to also be fat -- no matter how respectfully someone discusses his/her preferences. Disagreements are going to ensue, sometimes heated ones. The OP will feel maligned and misunderstood and the respondent usually feels just as vilified because NEITHER are willing to take a step back and pay close attention to what the other is actually saying. But I do think that the generally high level of hostility currently being expressed here could be somewhat alleviated if we focus less on pigeon-holing each other and throwing more coals on the fire (neither of which I feel that you've done, btw - I'm speaking more generally).

I do not dislike fetishists, nor do I believe that they do not have a place here. Yet time and again, I've been told that this is exactly how I feel. How productive is that? Unfortunately, I'm seeing that others -- people whom I *know* are not so narrow-minded or rigid in their thinking --- are being told the exact same thing, when in fact they've SAID no such thing at all (nor implied it). At some point, [the general] you stops being willing to look at the big picture, picks up a big hunk of mud, and starts slinging it. And the real issues get pushed off of the agenda altogether, as people start licking wounds and feel provoked towards attack mode themselves.

I'm not addressing one side or the other here. I think we've all earned our "poo slinging" merit badges. This will go on, and on, and on ... because, frankly, nobody seems to WANT it to end. Those screeching the loudest are having the most fun, it seems. Where is their incentive to stop?

I like you mer, you know that, but are you high? Have you even READ the titles in the WLS controversy board? Right now there are at least two threads titled "my wls journey", a thread called "I had wls on 4/11/09" a thread called "wls on a budget" and an article that actually talks about how wls can prevent a type of cancer. I can understand that the no diet talk rule upsets you, but if you're going to start looking for conspiracies, at least do a basic fact check.

And on the "no diet talk" note, I am another fetishist who happens to think the ban on it should be lifted, but you know what? I can't control it either. And all that has happened lately is that people have been misdirecting their anger at fetishists and some FAs in general, rather than trying to actually get rules changed or sorting out their personal issues with individual fetishists. When you use fetish as an insult, or throw out things like "fetish blows" or "you're too fetishy to have a sense of humor" or "oh no now everyone will think all FAs are fetishists" .....you've offended me and those like me. And that means you alienate people who would otherwise agree with you on certain issues. It's HOW people are fighting this fight that is the problem, not the fight itself. They are randomly insulting us and using our very identifier (and hence our sexuality- and it IS my ONLY sexuality for the record, not something I can just shrug off as so many here like to believe) as a synonym for "heartless/monster/pervert/detriment to SA/menace to fat people." Mer, you yourself just implied that the fetishists "don't speak up for the fat people they love." (I'm paraphrasing you, but still.....) REALLY? REALLY? I guess I have been misreading a lot of posts over the course of my time here. Or maybe people haven't been paying attention to which members do count as fetishists.

And the best part is, the fetishists and FAs that people have a problem with, the ones who DO only come here to objectify.....they don't even read these type of threads. So......the people who actually do have something to contribute and would normally care will just fade away and there will STILL be hundreds, if not thousands of "OMG so hot-:eat1:" posts here. I think everyone needs to rethink their strategy on this one.

Also, I suspect the reason your OA thread got closed was because you made it clear you were looking for alternatives and YOU brought up weight watchers as an example. I know diet talk was not your intention, but I could see how the mod would believe it could be left open to misinterpretation. Again, maybe everyone should just reread their posts before they hit submit, and get their facts straight and....oh yeah, have a discourse with Conrad about the rules, rather than running around telling him to "fuck off" and implying he's a misogynistic ass at every turn. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wouldn't be a discussion if he didn't keep this board running. I don't think it means people shouldn't debate his policies with him, but I think he at least deserves a little respect and courtesy and civil discussion of issues, rather than being railed against at every turn.

[Miss Vickie]

I get that both of you want the ban on weightloss talk lifted. I don't think either of you are evil anti fat people mentalists because you are also 'fetishists'. I'm trying to explain one of the reasons i think there is so much conflict between 'fetishists' and non fetishist; That there is not equality when it comes to discussing issues. I don't blame you or Loves for this, i'm blaming here for this. It makes it seem that here is more geared towards fetish and less towards fat people. Which as you can imagine would make fat people upset and angry.

Right. Yes. This.

It's not that I/We "blame" you guys. We just wish we had the same freedoms that you have to discuss what's important to you. The fact that it's 'anything goes' (or nearly so) when it comes to what turns your crank is great, but it leaves us a little left out when we -- the presumed adored and cherished objects of affection -- are limited as to what we can discuss. We're not really given reasons as to why this is, other than "you can talk about that elsewhere" (yeah, well, you can talk about humiliation fantasies elsewhere, too; it doesn't mean that you can't also talk about them here). I totally understand that some people might feel a twinge at reading about WLS talk or weight loss talk, but some of us also feel a "twinge" about reading about women struggling to get into a car turning someone on. As people who have actually experienced that, it HURTS us to know that our struggles turn someone on. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist here at Dimensions, necessarily, and keeping it on the WB is a good thing. Why not have the same freedom to discuss what's important to us -- OA, dieting, and our actual experiences with WLS as opposed to its controversy -- in the same "protected" way? The last thing I want to do is to make someone uncomfortable by sharing what's important to me. I'd hope that others would feel the same.

No, it's not your fault that our speech is stifled, and we appreciate the fact that you agree with us. But how about a little support in seeing if we can improve things for all of us? Also, how about understanding how it might hurt us to hear that others enjoyed our humiliation, pain and suffering?

And Dr. Feelgood, while there are a couple of threads about people's journeys that exist on the WLS board, some of us have been verbally attacked for sharing our stories. I asked for my journal to be retired because sharing the positives from my own WLS was perceived as cheerleading. It's clear in the heading "we're against it, if you MUST discuss it... " disclaimer that actual stories and support is unwelcome.

As for why people are arguing, I think like most things it's complicated. Some of it may be because we're a vulnerable group, having been attacked by others. Some might be because of the frustration, mentioned above, that we can't get the kind of support we feel we need. Some may be personal axes to grind. I do know this, though. ALL of us have made mistakes, been less than kind to each other, and have perpetuated negativity. ALL. OF. US. Even Carl. Even Loves. All of us. Like Traci, I'm willing to own my behavior and try to do better. I wonder who else would like to join us?

[Dr. P Marshall]

Dr. P....


Right. Yes. This.


Don't worry, I'm not going to misquote you or anything, I am responding to issues in both of your posts and don't want an enormous post of quotes.:)

I understand that people feel there are red herrings in various arguments. I understand that people get their feelings hurt when they perceive something that was difficult for them as a turn on. I am not arguing anyone's right to their feelings or anything else. And I was addressing mer's stance that wls talk was forbidden totally. I understand it is censored and I was not implying that everyone should be happy with how things are because they get to talk about it at all. I would never be that dismissive. But here is the real issue as I see it. People want changes around here. Well, the best way to get those changes is to actually outline what the actual problem is, state your aims and then take the problem to the people who can change things. I think we all agree on that. The problem as I see it is that many of us on the FA and or fetishist side of things agree with you, but there is still nothing that we can personally do to change the rules. I get it that there is a desire for a balance where fat people have the same freedom to discuss what they want, the same way as the fetishists do. I get it, not lost on me. But it still seems to me that if the goal is to get those bans on speech lifted, the best way to go about it would be to address that issue. Instead, it starts to seem as if there is a lot of paranoia and hyperbole and belief in a conspiracy and honestly, I think that just weakens the stance of those arguing. And doing things like broad stroke alienating large groups of people here is also misguided because you never know when numbers are going to count. For example, suppose it was opened up for petition, or something. Wouldn't it be better to have all those who sympathized on board? Rather than have turned them off because of side arguments? And let's be clear, I personally do not get offended when people go after a particularly callous poster on the weight board. BUT I do have a problem when people get angry at one fetishist (or several) and suddenly throw the term around as an insult and then take it further and seek to define us all. This isn't about my right to express anything, this is about the fact that you(the general you) run the risk of alienating a lot of other members when the fights are too broadly worded.

I know there have been a lot of fights here lately and I have been more or less away for personal reasons and haven't read them all, but right now, in this thread, I don't see anyone fighting to keep the ban on diet talk or anything else. That was sort of my point. HOW you fight is important. As I understand it, one of the main issues or goals is to lift the ban on certain types of speech. Again, I don't see any individuals disagreeing with that, quite the opposite, so at this point it's just preaching to the converted. I mean, even if a group wanted to limit what fetishists could talk about.....we still aren't the ones who make the rules. That's the point. It's not that I personally believe anyone should just shut up and do as they're told, it's that I have no say in this.....none of us do individually at this moment. So it seems counterproductive to get caught up in side arguments if what people really want is a larger, more sweeping change.

[LoveBHMS]

I totally understand that some people might feel a twinge at reading about WLS talk or weight loss talk, but some of us also feel a "twinge" about reading about women struggling to get into a car turning someone on. As people who have actually experienced that, it HURTS us to know that our struggles turn someone on. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist here at Dimensions, necessarily, and keeping it on the WB is a good thing. Why not have the same freedom to discuss what's important to us -- OA, dieting, and our actual experiences with WLS as opposed to its controversy -- in the same "protected" way? The last thing I want to do is to make someone uncomfortable by sharing what's important to me. I'd hope that others would feel the same.

Once again, it comes down to boundaries and respect.

I don't like children; I never have and never will. You know where I don't express that thought? On message boards geared toward support for infertility. I wouldn't log onto such a board and say "Man you guys don't know how lucky you are being unable to conceive. Kids are gross and noisy and they smell funny." I'd talk about it on a Childfree by Choice message board or with a childfree friend or relative.

Fetishes...are what they are. Nobody has control over what turns them on. Some people have golden shower fetishes and some people have serious bladder control issues. Some people have "bad foot" fetishes where they are turned on by feet with corns and bunions, and some people suffer terribly from crippling corns and bunions. There are amputee fetishists, and people who have tragically lost a limb in an accident. Nobody proactively develops a fetish just to hurt somebody.

If I had a golden shower fetish, I'd seek out forums to find like minded people, not log onto WebMD to lurk on a board about cystitis. If I had a bad foot fetish I'd go buy a magazine with pictures of women's feet that had bunions and corns, not go to a website for a podiatry practice and tell patients in severe pain that their problems were sexy. I can buy amputee fetish porn at the adult bookstore---but if I had that fetish I'd be smart enough to not approach strangers on crutches and tell them how turned on I was by the fact of their missing leg.

There is a 450+ private forum to talk about health, reach, and mobility issues in large part because those that suffer from them don't want to be wank fodder. On the flip side, there is a Weight Board where those who get turned on by an SSBBW struggling to get out of a car can talk about that. An SSBBW wanting to talk about the pain of being unable to walk up a flight of stairs does not want to hear that it's hot, and a fetishist who gets really turned on watching an SSBBW get winded and out of breath trying to walk a flight of stairs does not want to be interupted mid-fantasy to be told what a bad person s/he is or that s/he should consider how the SSBBW feels.

So if you feel that twinge? Don't go to the Weight Board. If you go to the Weight Board, understand that it's not there to hurt you or to wish that you or anyone else would be uncomfortable or in pain, it's just there for fetishists to talk about their sexuality.

[TraciJo67]

Well, the best way to get those changes is to actually outline what the actual problem is, state your aims and then take the problem to the people who can change things. I think we all agree on that.

I think that we are approaching the same exact issue from different angles, Dr. P ... but I do believe that we've both reached the same conclusion, anyway.

[Ernest Nagel]

This may be gross oversimplification but if we can discuss things that could be extremely burdensome and troubling for some people to experience (i.e, EWG) why isn't it OK to discuss how that burden could be relieved? We can stipulate that feederism is not intrinsically abusive but not that weight loss/maintenance or exercise could EVER be warranted?!? How does that make any sense?

It wouldn't make Dims a Jenny Craig Food Nazi paradise to be able to discuss healthy eating and lifestyle choices once in awhile, would it? I know the company line and I'm not trying to stir the pot but I'm sincerely puzzled. :confused: If we really care about BBW we should be able to talk about what works for them. Maybe we could just discuss fantasies of being comprehensively supportive? :rolleyes:

[BeautifulPoeticDisaster]

If we really care about BBW we should be able to talk about what works for them.

Bolded and gigantisized for emphasis. Yin and yang.

[LoveBHMS]

I don't know about Dr. P, but I'm starting to feel like Alice in Wonderland here.

The two fetishists in this conversation are supportive of discussions of both WLS and other methods of healthy weight loss if a SSBBW or BBW or SSBHM or BHM wants to do that.

The problem we have, or at least that I have is when people come onto the Weight Board and derail threads or make fun of us. I honestly don't think that the posts on those boards ridiculing us or haranguing as are only there because this site does not allow talk about WLS.

The arc of this discussion is like:

Fetishist: I find ________ hot.

COF representative: That's really sad you get off on somebody struggling.

Fetishist: Hey...I was just talking about a subject of sexual arousal on a forum geared towards that.

COP representative: Yeah but we can't talk about WLS, so it's totally ok for us to harass you. Why should you get to talk about what you want but we can't?

Fetishist: Wait...we never said anything about what you should or shouldn't talk about. In fact many of us support your wishes to discuss weight loss. We just would like to have our sexuality based discussions free from ridicule, interruption, and general rudeness.

COF sympathizer: We're not against you fetish types. But can't you see it's not fair we can't talk about weight loss?

To sum this up:

1. I think talk about weight loss and WLS should be allowed.

2. I don't think fetish talk should be interupted by people who just want to make fun of it or harass us.

Seriously....it's the proverbial apples and oranges here. I wish you could talk about weight loss and WLS, but so long as you can't, it does not give anyone the right to make fun of fetishists. If somebody wants to start a petition to Conrad about changing the rules, I'll sign it. If somebody want an argument for why that stuff should be allowed, I'll make it. That having been said, let's keep in mind there are fat people who don't want weight loss or WLS talk and their needs should be kept in mind too.

[Dr. P Marshall]

This may be gross oversimplification but if we can discuss things that could be extremely burdensome and troubling for some people to experience (i.e, EWG) why isn't it OK to discuss how that burden could be relieved? We can stipulate that feederism is not intrinsically abusive but not that weight loss/maintenance or exercise could EVER be warranted?!? How does that make any sense?


Personally, I don't think that it does make any sense. I think many people here from all sides don't think it makes any sense. I am actually, technically talking about the approach to the issue. I'm also just making observations by the way, I'm not blaming either side here. It seems to me, however, that in general, even the particular fetishists that people have a problem with have never rallied around the idea of limiting diet talk or wls talk. I understand that many fat people here feel that they are being unfairly limited and their voices underrepresented due to the ban. And let me state again, for the record, I happen to agree with them. What I don't understand, however, is why this is being played out the way it is. It just seems to me that if people want the rules changed, then they should try to get the rules changed. Even if every weight board poster stopped posting, there would still be a ban on diet and wls surgery talk. So, do people want to try to get the ban lifted? Or do they want the weight board to have different rules? Any of those changes would still have to be made by the powers that be. I can understand people's need to vent their frustration, I honestly do, I'm not totally clueless about the feelings of others. But it seems to me that part of the problem is that, as I said in my first post, I think the anger and frustration are often getting misdirected. And then they escalate and huge sweeping statements are made (on both sides, I'll be fair) that get a lot of other people caught in the net. So then there are members of the board who find themselves "mid fight" and they don't have the full picture and then more and more people get alienated on both sides and it goes on and on and still the underlying issues are never dealt with or addressed. I'm not saying we all have to get along, I was actually suggesting that there might be a more effective way to go about achieving certain aims. In other words, I was actually trying to point out that I think the way to get the powers that be to listen is to go about it in a more civil manner and with a more focused aim. Like it or not, often the difference between an argument being taken seriously and being brushed off is entirely in the delivery. And allies and community members can be lost passively. The more things degenerate, the more posters of all types are going to lay low and there will be less and less participation on the site's main boards by folks who do have things to contribute.

[TraciJo67]

At this point, those who have been responsible for the nasty in-fighting, the smearing, and the clustermug of a mess that some threads on this board have become should probably subtract themselves from this discussion ... at all. Others shouldn't have made themselves spokespeople for ANY discussion of ANY change at all, in the first place. Those who truly, TRULY wish to make this a better place ... and have a history of pot-stirring ... may want to consider stepping back and letting other, more thoughtful people take the reins for a while.

I'm subtracting myself from this discussion, for the reasons given above.

I'll be interested to note if the other hypocrites do so, as well.

[joswitch]

Exactly! :eat2: :eat1:

I am partly solar powered! ZoooOOOOooooom! :p :D

[Ernest Nagel]

At this point, those who have been responsible for the nasty in-fighting, the smearing, and the clustermug of a mess that some threads on this board have become should probably subtract themselves from this discussion ... at all. Others shouldn't have made themselves spokespeople for ANY discussion of ANY change at all, in the first place. Those who truly, TRULY wish to make this a better place ... and have a history of pot-stirring ... may want to consider stepping back and letting other, more thoughtful people take the reins for a while.

I'm subtracting myself from this discussion, for the reasons given above.

I'll be interested to note if the other hypocrites do so, as well.

Traci I take your point and also withdraw in the interest of peace and progress. Having long since been branded (unfairly, imo) an anti-fetishist it's clear I can't say much that won't be automatically taken as judgmental asshattery in some quarters. That saddens me because I generally consider my only real allegiance here to be Pro-BBW. They're the only ones I really want to be "up against". :wubu: :D

[Miss Vickie]

I understand that people feel there are red herrings in various arguments. I understand that people get their feelings hurt when they perceive something that was difficult for them as a turn on. I am not arguing anyone's right to their feelings or anything else.

I appreciate that. Just as I try hard not to judge what you find a turn on, I appreciate the same respect toward my feelings, as the (in a general way of course) potential recipient of said affection and attention. See, that's why you're one of the "white hats", because you seem to see us as people, not as just balls of fat with which to get jiggy. Or something. ;)

But here is the real issue as I see it. People want changes around here. Well, the best way to get those changes is to actually outline what the actual problem is, state your aims and then take the problem to the people who can change things. I think we all agree on that.

I know that you mean well, but do you honestly think we haven't tried that? I've tried talking to Conrad directly (I'm ignored), I've tried talking to a moderator (I've been semi-stalked), I've tried everything. Frankly, I've just given up, and I'm not a "giving up" kind of person. But I've got mine (WLS), and I don't need support anymore. What I had hoped to do was share my experiences in an honest, size positive or neutral way (since I'm still "obese" and even so most of my health problems have been resolved, so obviously you can still be fat and healthy) which apparently wasn't okay. What is okay, apparently, is insulting people who have had WLS. Okay, I'm fine with that, free speech and all that. But then at least let me be honest and open about my experiences, too. Nope. No can do.

At this point? I don't really care that much. I don't have a horse in this race anymore, but it still hurts me when I hear of people getting their yaya's watching someone struggle. I'm sorry (not really) but I do. It's like laughing when a blind person falls down a manhole or a quadriplegic falls out of their chair. To me it feels like an inappropriate response to a painful situation. As someone with a whole lotta empathy, I don't understand how anyone could find it anything but sad or horrifying. I don't need to understand it, I suppose, but... wow... I'd like to, one human to another.

The problem as I see it is that many of us on the FA and or fetishist side of things agree with you, but there is still nothing that we can personally do to change the rules.

Hey, I can't speak for others, but I'd settle for verbal support. That goes a long way. :) The rules aren't going to change, I've accepted that. But at least people know they can come to me for information and support -- that means something. I could just reach a whole lot more people if I could discuss WLS publicly but oh well.

My bigger issue in bringing this up was not to start the same discussion and drama again (please, oh god, no!) but rather to just explain from my point of view, where some of the resentment comes from. You know, since Carl asked a question (rhetorical though it may be...) I don't want to fight with anyone. I spend 40 hours a week dealing with people's health issues, advocating for my patients with administration, putting up with bullshit from co-workers and asshole baby daddies. The last thing I want to do is to fight here. So I stay away from the Weight Board, because I know that some of it -- not all of it, but some of it -- will piss me off. I guess I'd hoped that those who don't like/want WLS or weight loss talk could be adults and do the same. My bad.

Anyhow, thanks for the discussion about all this. I hope whatever personal stuff that was keeping you away was positive, and thanks for actually -- you know -- listening and not just lumping us all into some clique or COF or calling us haterz or prudes, 'cause we're not. We're strong minded, intelligent, thinking women with a lot of life experience and strong opinions, something those who know us well appreciate about us.

[joswitch]

@Mer - there are literally MILLIONS of sites where folks can go read/talk weight loss and WLS... If DIMS ever opened up to the massive deluge of mainstream weight loss desire/fetish/fanaticsm/profiteering not only would it be totally redundant but then fat positive voices would be completely lost in the deluge... Size/Fat acceptance is still a very small fish in a sea of memes.... Seriously, take a poll of all the fat folks you know in real life.. How many / what % want to and talk about losing weight, how many talk about it ALL the time? Like daily? Now multiply that by a factor of a million... That = DIMS with weight loss talk allowed..

[Blackjack]

@Mer - there are literally MILLIONS of sites where folks can go read/talk weight loss and WLS... If DIMS ever opened up to the massive deluge of mainstream weight loss desire/fetish/fanaticsm/profiteering not only would it be totally redundant but then fat positive voices would be completely lost in the deluge... Size/Fat acceptance is still a very small fish in a sea of memes.... Seriously, take a poll of all the fat folks you know in real life.. How many / what % want to and talk about losing weight, how many talk about it ALL the time? Like daily? Now multiply that by a factor of a million... That = DIMS with weight loss talk allowed..

Yeah, and what's with all this talk about the realities of being fat? I mean, we hear that kind of stuff all the time too, and people don't really want to hear about it anyways here since it's everywhere else. Seriously, take a poll of all the fat people you know in real life... How many / what % want to and talk about all the issues that they have?

[mossystate]

" desire/fetish/fanaticsm/profiteering "


Interesting choice of words.

[Fascinita]

@Mer - there are literally MILLIONS of sites where folks can go read/talk weight loss and WLS... If DIMS ever opened up to the massive deluge of mainstream weight loss desire/fetish/fanaticsm/profiteering not only would it be totally redundant but then fat positive voices would be completely lost in the deluge... Size/Fat acceptance is still a very small fish in a sea of memes.... Seriously, take a poll of all the fat folks you know in real life.. How many / what % want to and talk about losing weight, how many talk about it ALL the time? Like daily? Now multiply that by a factor of a million... That = DIMS with weight loss talk allowed..

Josey, so you're saying that if I want to talk about managing my weight and taking care of my body, I have to go do it on the Jenny Craig website, where fat basically = death?

Gee. That doesn't leave me many choices.

I know. Let's just have some cheesecake and call it a day! :p :D

[superodalisque]

Josey, so you're saying that if I want to talk about managing my weight and taking care of my body, I have to go do it on the Jenny Craig website, where fat basically = death?

Gee. That doesn't leave me many choices.

I know. Let's just have some cheesecake and call it a day! :p :D

its is kind of odd considering that its okay if other people (besides yourself) can talk about managing your weight here and that is celebrated. i'd err on the side of freedom even though i myself would love a diet free place to come to. i'm tired of hearing about dieting and hating fat bodies etc... myself. its everywhere you look and its a downer.

[Miss Vickie]

Josey, so you're saying that if I want to talk about managing my weight and taking care of my body, I have to go do it on the Jenny Craig website, where fat basically = death?

Gee. That doesn't leave me many choices.

I know. Let's just have some cheesecake and call it a day! :p :D

Mmmmm, tasty!:eat1:

[mossystate]

Mmmmm, tasty!:eat1:

Hey...me too!!!!!!!!!:wubu::eat2::eat1::eat2:

[LoveBHMS]

Josey, so you're saying that if I want to talk about managing my weight and taking care of my body, I have to go do it on the Jenny Craig website, where fat basically = death?

Gee. That doesn't leave me many choices.

I know. Let's just have some cheesecake and call it a day! :p :D

GMAFB.

Last I checked, you've had two posts on the health forum. One was about how your exercise of the day amounted to walking to McDonalds and the other which had to be deleted by a mod was a not so funny joke about how your daily exercise was getting into a fight and walking to the store to buy cigarettes. I mean really....nothing funnier than talking on a health board about buying cigarettes and fast food.

if you're gonna make it your business to ridicule every damned thing on this site and basically use it as nothing more than new material for you and your friends to laugh at, don't get pissed off when you then don't have a serious venue to talk about taking care of your body.

people fought really hard to get the health forum, and you got on there and made a mockery of it by talking about (ha ha ha) how you walked to McDonalds for your workout. And bought cigarettes. So please cry long and hard about needing a venue to talk about taking care of your body when you've made a joke out of the one that already exists that previous posters busted their asses to get there.

[Santaclear]

GMAFB.
Last I checked, you've had two posts on the health forum. One was about how your exercise of the day amounted to walking to McDonalds and the other which had to be deleted by a mod was a not so funny joke about how your daily exercise was getting into a fight and walking to the store to buy cigarettes. I mean really....nothing funnier than talking on a health board about buying cigarettes and fast food.
if you're gonna make it your business to ridicule every damned thing on this site and basically use it as nothing more than new material for you and your friends to laugh at, don't get pissed off when you then don't have a serious venue to talk about taking care of your body.
people fought really hard to get the health forum, and you got on there and made a mockery of it by talking about (ha ha ha) how you walked to McDonalds for your workout. And bought cigarettes. So please cry long and hard about needing a venue to talk about taking care of your body when you've made a joke out of the one that already exists that previous posters busted their asses to get there.

You're marching right down to the office, young lady, and explain to the Principal exactly what these people did!

[LoveBHMS]

Just keep making a joke out of everything. That's gonna help make this place better.

Bottom line is that a lot of posters here fought hard to get the health board. Now that it's there, she goes and makes a joke out of it and then comes and whines about not having a place to talk about taking care of her body.

I'll break this down nice and easy for you. Going to a forum devoted to health and making jokes about not exercising, eating junk food, and smoking is not funny. If you choose to do those things, you've lost the right to complain that Dims is not properly catering to your needs so far as a place to discuss caring for your body.

[Fascinita]

its is kind of odd considering that its okay if other people (besides yourself) can talk about managing your weight here and that is celebrated. i'd err on the side of freedom even though i myself would love a diet free place to come to. i'm tired of hearing about dieting and hating fat bodies etc... myself. its everywhere you look and its a downer.

I hear you about the hate thrown at fat. It's heinous especially when it's done in the name of "health". If I never see another ad for a diet again, it'll be too soon. Oy very vey.

What I'm talking about is just a realistic expectation that sometimes fat people who are perfectly happy being fat will want to talk about losing weight, too. Because, you know, fat people are human beings, too, with free will.

When I see all the effort it takes here to re-write the book of common sense, it makes me do this sometimes :rolleyes:

[Santaclear]

Just keep making a joke out of everything. That's gonna help make this place better.
Bottom line is that a lot of posters here fought hard to get the health board. Now that it's there, she goes and makes a joke out of it and then comes and whines about not having a place to talk about taking care of her body.
I'll break this down nice and easy for you. Going to a forum devoted to health and making jokes about not exercising, eating junk food, and smoking is not funny. If you choose to do those things, you've lost the right to complain that Dims is not properly catering to your needs so far as a place to discuss caring for your body.

Quit your horsing around, Loves.

[Green Eyed Fairy]

PPS- Carl1h, I remember a time when you were involved in--heck, even initiated--quite the forum fracas, or two. So I'm taking your post with a giant grain of salt.

It seems to me you're interested in chastising. Well, nobody's all bad, and this painting of people as just these angry, nasty pissers maybe says more about the mood you were in last night than about the people you find offensive. The last couple of lines are particularly telling.

No matter. It's your prerogative to post.

Cheesecake! Gobs and gobs of cheesecake.

Yeah, I agree. Same shit, different day.

[Fascinita]

GMAFB.

Last I checked, you've had two posts on the health forum. One was about how your exercise of the day amounted to walking to McDonalds


I'm so sorry.

I didn't realize how crass of me it was to suggest I like McDonald's as I made my puny contribution to the exercise thread. :sad:

I suppose it really was so very pathetic of me, to post how I'd only walked two measly blocks.

So... even though I'd posted about walking many times waaaaay before you came in of late to post in a frenzy about your hours on the StairMaster (TM), and even though you've now just sunk to the level of making up stuff about me having only two posts on the health forum, I admit it was crass and disgusting beyond belief to mention Mickey D's in the same breath as "I walked two blocks."

Can you ever forgive me, Love? :really sad:



PS - I'm not personally accountable to you. And I do find it curious that you're going to such lengths to discredit a handful of people, instead of engaging in discourse over issues. How you do go on. :bow: :bow:

[LoveBHMS]

Oh please. Your posts were not about "walking" as exercise the way everyone else posts about it, they were jokes. When you say "Two minutes there and back. I rule!" in a joking manner you're not taking it seriously. If you want to eat McDonalds, go for it. None of my business. But don't write about it on a thread where people are talking about health in a serious manner.

When you say on the same thread that your exercise involved getting into a fight and going to buy cigarettes, you're not taking it seriously and you know that.

It's not about discrediting you, it's about holding you and others responsible for your action. I'm not even sure how this discussion went from "Please quit making fun of people on the Weight Board" to "Well we're silenced because we can't talk about weight loss." I mean are you implying that the whole reason you come and ridicule people who want to discuss their sexuality is that you're compelled to ruin our free speech since you dont' have it?

[Shosh]

We all make mistakes, I know I have made many mistakes here. Ok quote that coz you are only gonna read it once.:p


Meanwhile

Riding along, singin a cowboy song,
riding along, singing a song,
Oh le oh le, oh le oh lay
oh le oh lay!

High horses mate.;):D

[Tania]

...and there was never the idea that you MUST be a proud card-carrying fetishist to post on the Weight Board. :p

This, eleventy-BILLION times over.

Christ. :doh:

[Fascinita]

If you want to eat McDonalds, go for it. None of my business. But don't write about it on a thread where people are talking about health in a serious manner.



If you were familiar with that thread, you'd know that I've posted a number of times about taking short walks.

You'd also know that I'm not the only one to have used a humorous tone.

You seem to think that you get to set the tone and the rules for that thread, but you don't know what you're talking about, do you?

This back and forth is just a waste of your time and mine until you actually familiarize yourself with that thread. ;)

[Santaclear]

Familiarize yourself with the boards and the rules around here, Loves. :eat1:

[mergirl]

@Mer - there are literally MILLIONS of sites where folks can go read/talk weight loss and WLS... If DIMS ever opened up to the massive deluge of mainstream weight loss desire/fetish/fanaticsm/profiteering not only would it be totally redundant but then fat positive voices would be completely lost in the deluge... Size/Fat acceptance is still a very small fish in a sea of memes.... Seriously, take a poll of all the fat folks you know in real life.. How many / what % want to and talk about losing weight, how many talk about it ALL the time? Like daily? Now multiply that by a factor of a million... That = DIMS with weight loss talk allowed..
I dont think there are literally millions. I would take a stab at there being no fat positive sites where you can talk about weightloss (If need be). By the way, this is not just about weight loss it is about fat people not being heard. This is one of the areas, yes. I don't get the people who say they love fat people but basically are ambivillant to their wants and needs. I get it that people here love fat people and i can see why 'diet talk' might raise some hackles and lower some errections, but at the end of the day shouldn't people be afforded the rights to discuss the issues that are real to them? (Btw, i think this goes for 'fetishists' too, though they have a protected forum do they not?)

[LoveBHMS]

I dont think there are literally millions. I would take a stab at there being no fat positive sites where you can talk about weightloss (If need be). By the way, this is not just about weight loss it is about fat people not being heard. This is one of the areas, yes. I don't get the people who say they love fat people but basically are ambivillant to their wants and needs. I get it that people here love fat people and i can see why 'diet talk' might raise some hackles and lower some errections, but at the end of the day shouldn't people be afforded the rights to discuss the issues that are real to them? (Btw, i think this goes for 'fetishists' too, though they have a protected forum do they not?)

While I have already said I agree with there being a rule change about that, it is also undeniably true that not all fat people want there to be weight loss talk here. I believe some have stated they come here to get away from it and want this to be the one place in their lives they don't have to see it since they're likely getting it everywhere elese---their husband complains, their office is having a "Biggest Loser" contest, their TV shows and magazines are filled with Weight Watchers ads, etc. I don't think all fat people agree this change is necessary, and I know many of them don't want it. What if somebody joined here just because there was a stated rule against talking about weight loss and WLS?

[LoveBHMS]

We all make mistakes, I know I have made many mistakes here. Ok quote that coz you are only gonna read it once.:p


Meanwhile

Riding along, singin a cowboy song,
riding along, singing a song,
Oh le oh le, oh le oh lay
oh le oh lay!

High horses mate.;):D

I'm glad you repeated the "High horses' thing cause it's not like I read it the first time. :rolleyes:

Enough already. Saying repeatedly that "we all make mistakes" is kinda pointless. Yes we all do but when you repeat it twice in a thread and once in a PM it starts to be taunting and it's tiresome. Considering your first mistake was insulting the paysite board and by extension Conrad, I'd stop mentioning other people's mistake, ok?

[MissToodles]

While I have already said I agree with there being a rule change about that, it is also undeniably true that not all fat people want there to be weight loss talk here. I believe some have stated they come here to get away from it and want this to be the one place in their lives they don't have to see it since they're likely getting it everywhere elese---their husband complains, their office is having a "Biggest Loser" contest, their TV shows and magazines are filled with Weight Watchers ads, etc. I don't think all fat people agree this change is necessary, and I know many of them don't want it. What if somebody joined here just because there was a stated rule against talking about weight loss and WLS?

we're told to ignore the weight board, ''grin and bear it'', if you will. fine, I'll respect those rules. but this website can't have it both ways. let's be realisitic, dims is a hub of supersized activity on the web, for lack of a better term. but sometimes being very large comes with a separate host of issues that losing weight will help to solve. not all, but a lot. it's the honest truth. and we all have to walk around here on our tippy toes, with our lifestyle changes and holisitic blah blahs rather than say "I lost weight". there's no reason to make others feel bad, so I can understand how this is a slippery slope

l I know there's the supersized forum, which is wonderul, great, that is written without an ounce of sarcasm by the way. but dieting forums out there aren't the same thing. I frequent one, (3fatchicks if you all must know) and while I get good advice, I can't stand people ripping on their bodies, how ''horrible'' they looked before and all that other fun stuff. in all fairness, many of the partcipants are in the early 20's and maybe they'll grow to love themselves more as they age.

but a forum can't be everything to everyone, so it will probably remain the status quo. that's fine. but just as we can learn to ignore the weight board, you can ignore any sort of weight loss talk. done and done.

[Tooz]

Where do people get the energy for all the hatred and animosity that goes back and forth here? Aren't the other people here basically your people? The people that are on your team? Yet you act like, come the revolution these are the first people you would line up against the wall. I realize that human nature is that way and that history is full of examples of people turning first against the people with whom they have the most in common, but that is supposed to be a lesson to be learned from rather than an example to be followed.

You don't have to respond in the defensive/aggressive/hateful way you do because someone else provoked you. You provoke them or someone else and they provoke and you provoke and then, soon enough, you have 11 pages of self righteous hate that should embarrass you to look back on.

Instead of thinking about all the ways that you hate what someone said or just all the ways you hate that someone, think instead about what they are trying to say and what you have in common with them. Spend fifteen minutes thinking about what was said rather than trying to respond to as many separate posts as possible. If it isn't worth time to think about what someone wrote, move on to something worth consideration.

Or, hey, conflict is entertainment. Thoughtless is easier than thoughtful. Every fight needs to be fought. Hatred keeps you warm at night. Piss where you eat.

I get my energy from posts like this. ;)

[butch]

FWIW, most fat positive/size acceptance sites I'm aware of seem more draconian than Dims when it comes to the no diet talk/no WLS talk, and they're all run by women (who in many cases are very anti-fat admirers, let alone fat fetishism). I say that because some of us fat women do enjoy the no diet talk rule here. Not trying to stir the pot, just offering another point of view.

I'm all for HAES talk (as a practitioner with great results, btw), and perhaps an interesting thread in the health forum would be a book reading group thread on Linda Bacon's book on HAES. It is a remarkable book that really lays down the principles of Health at Every Size in an eye-opening and useful way, IMO.

[MissToodles]

intuitive eating is lovely and all, but doesn't work for everyone. can we accept, especially since if you get to a much higher size, there may be something wrong with your satiety cues and hormones. what's wrong in admitting this? no one wants to listen, no one. okay, I'm being melodramatic here. I think HAES is great in theory but doesn't work for everyone. and yes, neither does traditional dieting.

[LoveBHMS]

we're told to ignore the weight board, ''grin and bear it'', if you will. fine, I'll respect those rules. but this website can't have it both ways. let's be realisitic, dims is a hub of supersized activity on the web, for lack of a better term. but sometimes being very large comes with a separate host of issues that losing weight will help to solve. not all, but a lot. it's the honest truth. and we all have to walk around here on our tippy toes, with our lifestyle changes and holisitic blah blahs rather than say "I lost weight". there's no reason to make others feel bad, so I can understand how this is a slippery slope

l I know there's the supersized forum, which is wonderul, great, that is written without an ounce of sarcasm by the way. but dieting forums out there aren't the same thing. I frequent one, (3fatchicks if you all must know) and while I get good advice, I can't stand people ripping on their bodies, how ''horrible'' they looked before and all that other fun stuff. in all fairness, many of the partcipants are in the early 20's and maybe they'll grow to love themselves more as they age.

but a forum can't be everything to everyone, so it will probably remain the status quo. that's fine. but just as we can learn to ignore the weight board, you can ignore any sort of weight loss talk. done and done.

I agree completely.

My problem with this whole discussion is it's feeling like the Weight Board posters very reasonable requests to be left alone and not made fun of or harassed has somehow morphed into a discussion about why there is not weight loss talk allowed on Dims. One thing has nothing to do with the other, particularly, as Dr. P said, we're not the ones who make the rules.

I mean look, does somebody want to just start a petition to Conrad about changing this rule? Since it's obviously a bone of contention here, why don't we start a poll thread about whether or not this rule should be changed and allow discourse from both sides?

[joswitch]

I dont think there are literally millions. I would take a stab at there being no fat positive sites where you can talk about weightloss (If need be). By the way, this is not just about weight loss it is about fat people not being heard. This is one of the areas, yes. I don't get the people who say they love fat people but basically are ambivillant to their wants and needs. I get it that people here love fat people and i can see why 'diet talk' might raise some hackles and lower some errections, but at the end of the day shouldn't people be afforded the rights to discuss the issues that are real to them? (Btw, i think this goes for 'fetishists' too, though they have a protected forum do they not?)

So what other issues (apart from weight loss) are fat folks silenced on?

On the weight loss / WLS issue:-
Google says:
Results 1 - 10 of about 110,000,000 for weight loss. (0.19 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 18,000,000 for weight loss surgery. (0.40 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 251,000 for my weight loss surgery journey. (0.32 seconds)

Total: 128,251,000 pages (holy f***!)

So - Miss Vickie? - there's 128million plus choices there for you. If none existing appeal why not start a blog (it's free & takes five minutes), or a webpage, or a forum and be +1 on that 128,251,000 there???

Also, walk into your local newsagents and count the number of magazines that are about or feature "slimming" on their front cover (that might take you a while), now count up how many show fat people in a positive light (not so many, huh?).

In contrast with:
Results 1 - 10 of about 40,800,000 for size acceptance. (0.35 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,370,000 for fat acceptance. (0.26 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 242,000 for fat positivity. (0.29 seconds)

Total: 42,412,000 pages (although I expect a fair proportion of those will be "size acceptance is garbage" type disses)

So weight loss pages outweigh size / fat acceptance pages by 3 to 1.

Now you can be a person of ANY size and subscribe to size / fat acceptance in a political / social sense - i.e. that people should not be abused, discriminated and exploited due to their size.

Whether or not you chose to subscribe to the personal aspect of size acceptance i.e. you're ok, as a person, whatever size you happen to be, and adopt the HAES approach to health, is up to you and need not affect your political stance.

Unless, of course you start advocating for weight loss and weight loss surgery. These are not fat positive pursuits. Obviously as an autonomous individual you are free to modify your body however you wish, for whatever reason. And you're free within the constraints of your State authorities to say whatever you like.

But DIMS does not claim to be a site which represents "the totality of experience of fat people".

What DIMS says on the tin is:

Where Big Is Beautiful.

i.e. DIMS stands for these ideas:

Fat Positivity (including & especially Sexuality)
Fat Acceptance
Size Acceptance
HAES

To promote these ideas does mean creating an Alice through the Looking Glass Happy La La Land on the web. These are still fragile and marginal ideas. The mainstream is immensely powerful in the meme-pool by comparison.
It's not fetishists vs. fat people. It's fat positivity vs. fat negativity.

Most IRL fat people do not want to be fat, they want to be thin. Most fat people are dieting (as we speak :( ). Most fat people think that people who are attracted to their bodies are weirdos at best and evil freaks at worst :(. You can see how a DIMS that allowed that expression would not be promoting ANY of these ideas above. In fact it would represent the mainstream view that fat = bad/wrong/death. So it wouldn't be DIMS anymore.

A fair few COFers want a forum to talk about weight loss / WLS. These ex-fat and wannabe-less-fat folks have found that for them personally Xlbs fat was/is too much, but that Ylbs fat was (or they hope will be) OK. That's cool for them, but it's NOT fat nor size acceptance. And it's not what DIMS exists for. These folks should go start their own forum to talk about this. It'd probably be pretty damn popular. My ex-gf told me she'd definitely join such a forum (no joke).

Not being able to discuss it on DIMS* doesn't take away anyone's rights to discuss issues. Cos DIMs isn't the whole web!

(*the censorship is waaaaay leaky, btw, otherwise how would I know that both MissVickie and TraciJo have had WLS? and that they personally are pleased with their weight loss and now ex-fat-person embodiment? I know cos they've posted this on DIMS, in various wordings. In MissVickie's case - a number of times.)

[Ruffie]

Whats gone on in this thread is a great illustration of what the original poster must have been getting at. People pointing fingers at one another, not being respectful when having a differing point of view and seemingly "getting off" on bringing up the flaws they see in other people. Not to mention hijacking the thread and talking about other issues within it. But that seems to be par for the course of late and those that perpetuate it seem to be able to continually find the energy.

[KHayes666]

Whats gone on in this thread is a great illustration of what the original poster must have been getting at. People pointing fingers at one another, not being respectful when having a differing point of view and seemingly "getting off" on bringing up the flaws they see in other people. Not to mention hijacking the thread and talking about other issues within it. But that seems to be par for the course of late and those that perpetuate it seem to be able to continually find the energy.

In that case, what do you think should be done about this?

[mergirl]

I was about to say.. actually i don't have the energy anymore.
Joswitch, i applaude your crusade. Come back and tell me what these facts and figures you are spouting actually mean to you when you are a fat woman.
As i have said, its not just about weight loss or being able to talk about real experiences, it is that is seems that Fa sexuality and fetishism is given priority over fat people's reality. The wl censorship is just an indication of that.
Jo- you want to know how fat folk are silenced? When they object to stories on here that make them feel like shit they are called prudes and asked to go elsewhere if they dont like it. When the fat people here are oppinionated about a particular subject that doesnt fit into the dims manifesto i have seen them patronised or accused of being overbearing, shrews, harpies etc etc..
As i said before, yes, there are weight loss sites but not size positive ones. I don't know how many times this has to be said before it is listened to.
This runs much deeper than being able to talk about particular subjects, it is about the foundations of here. The sad and ironic thing is that i don't even think many Fa's are getting to talk about what they want to either. I think the divide that was there before has cracked and is turning into a ravine. I'm not sure what this means for here.
Personally, i am tired of going around in circles with this debate..
I don't have the energy any more.

[Ruffie]

Well cannot mod a direction that is popular. We have seen as discussed over and over on many posts a trend or an upping in negativity here. If its what the masses want its what prevails. All we can do is choose not to participate, be positive in our posts and hope the tide turns. Can't legislate morality!

[joswitch]

I was about to say.. actually i don't have the energy anymore.
Joswitch, i applaude your crusade. Come back and tell me what these facts and figures you are spouting actually mean to you when you are a fat woman.
As i have said, its not just about weight loss or being able to talk about real experiences, it is that is seems that Fa sexuality and fetishism is given priority over fat people's reality. The wl censorship is just an indication of that.
Jo- you want to know how fat folk are silenced? When they object to stories on here that make them feel like shit they are called prudes and asked to go elsewhere if they dont like it. When the fat people here are oppinionated about a particular subject that doesnt fit into the dims manifesto i have seen them patronised or accused of being overbearing, shrews, harpies etc etc..
As i said before, yes, there are weight loss sites but not size positive ones. I don't know how many times this has to be said before it is listened to.
This runs much deeper than being able to talk about particular subjects, it is about the foundations of here. The sad and ironic thing is that i don't even think many Fa's are getting to talk about what they want to either. I think the divide that was there before has cracked and is turning into a ravine. I'm not sure what this means for here.
Personally, i am tired of going around in circles with this debate..
I don't have the energy any more.

If only fat women have the right to an opinion (IYO) then you definitely need to start your own forum! Keep all us uppity males outta there. :p

Re. your stories reference - that's about the debate in the "preference vs. fetish" thread, right? I was the first person in there to propose a disclaimer over the stories in question - in the same way as the WLS section has a disclaimer - cos yeah, I agree that those particular stories don't fit with the safe place / Happy La La Land idea that is central to DIMS.

How can a weight loss site BE size positive? It's a genuine and serious question, not a rhetorical point.

Okayz. New Duracells neeeded for Mer!

[joswitch]

" desire/fetish/fanaticsm/profiteering "


Interesting choice of words.

Precise, in fact. :p

[joswitch]

Josey, so you're saying that if I want to talk about managing my weight and taking care of my body, I have to go do it on the Jenny Craig website, where fat basically = death?

Gee. That doesn't leave me many choices.

I know. Let's just have some cheesecake and call it a day! :p :D

Let's not obfuscate - we're talking about weight loss and WLS - not "managing" (which implies maintainence) nor taking care of your body per se. (which might be HAES).

If you don't like the existing 128million offerings - why not start you're own forum? - really it's not hard anymore - there was a breakaway "faction" from FF who did just that - over something waaaaaay more minor than this issue. The new forum was up and running in days.

Yayz! for cheesecake!:D

[Ernest Nagel]

FWIW, most fat positive/size acceptance sites I'm aware of seem more draconian than Dims when it comes to the no diet talk/no WLS talk, and they're all run by women (who in many cases are very anti-fat admirers, let alone fat fetishism). I say that because some of us fat women do enjoy the no diet talk rule here. Not trying to stir the pot, just offering another point of view.

I'm all for HAES talk (as a practitioner with great results, btw), and perhaps an interesting thread in the health forum would be a book reading group thread on Linda Bacon's book on HAES. It is a remarkable book that really lays down the principles of Health at Every Size in an eye-opening and useful way, IMO.

Brilliant, as per usual, Julia. :bow: While I realize HAES is not a universal solution perhaps as a "proof of concept" to show diet/fitness talk is not synonymous with fat-hating we could try a 60 day HAES sub-forum on the Health Board?

While there is no direct linkage the connection between fetishism and no diet talk here is the rationale. Diet talk is very offensive to some people. Quite frankly so is some fetish talk to others. You can find both in other places so why risk offending anyone? Short answer: Only Nixon could go to China. Longer version: this is a place where it's not just OK but good to be fat. A diet wouldn't have to exist in the context of attaining beauty or acceptance here. It would be purely for the physical/emotional benefit of the dieter and no one else. For me as an FA it would be nice to know HAES is available and supported for so many people I hope will be around for a long time. Longevity aside, it'd be nice to know folks are here because they choose to be, not just because it's the only place they can get to.

Sorry for breaking my self-imposed moratorium from earlier in the thread but that wanted saying.

If anyone agrees re the HAES sub-forum on the Health Board, PM me. If there's interest I'll start a poll (Mods permitting) on the Health Board.

[mergirl]

If only fat women have the right to an opinion (IYO) then you definitely need to start your own forum! Keep all us uppity males outta there. :p

Re. your stories reference - that's about the debate in the "preference vs. fetish" thread, right? I was the first person in there to propose a disclaimer over the stories in question - in the same way as the WLS section has a disclaimer - cos yeah, I agree that those particular stories don't fit with the safe place / Happy La La Land idea that is central to DIMS.

How can a weight loss site BE size positive? It's a genuine and serious question, not a rhetorical point.

Okayz. New Duracells neeeded for Mer!
srsly.. dnt hiv nrg...
You can lose weight and you will still be a 'size'- you may even feel more positive..
weight loss and size positivity are compatable.. i assure you. You may not like when your gf loses weight.. so maby the expereince is not positive for you.. maby thats what you mean. Many ssbbws lose weight and become bbws. Not all weight loss is about being thin.
I'm not saying you have to be a woman to join in a debate -Just that all the facts and figures in the world can never make you understand what it is like to live as a fat woman. Some fat women i know want to lose weight, whether it is some or a lot their experiences are valid and don't need to come at the expense of 'size acceptance'. (Plus i saw you dressed as a woman..You would totally pass.. not as a fat woman though. :( )

[LoveBHMS]

But DIMS does not claim to be a site which represents "the totality of experience of fat people".

This.

I go to Starbucks and I love some of their flavors of tea. Starbucks does not sell crumpets, though. Now i may really like crumpets, I may even think that tea is incomplete without crumpets, but if they don't sell it they don't sell it. If I want crumpets, I gotta go elsewhere and not insist that because they sell tea, and therefore are supposed to be geared towards tea drinkers, they had BETTER start selling crumpets because otherwise they can't claim to really want my business as a tea drinker.

People can insist all they want about what Dims or isn't and should and shouldn't be about. For right now, it's a place where you can talk about fetishism and you can't talk about weight loss. The fetishism talk isn't there to be anti-fat or to not care about fat people, it's to cater to the FAs. Stories with humiliation themes are not anti-fat either, they cater to FAs and to fat people who get off on them.

[joswitch]

Brilliant, as per usual, Julia. :bow: While I realize HAES is not a universal solution perhaps as a "proof of concept" to show diet/fitness talk is not synonymous with fat-hating we could try a 60 day HAES sub-forum on the Health Board?

While there is no direct linkage the connection between fetishism and no diet talk here is the rationale. Diet talk is very offensive to some people. Quite frankly so is some fetish talk to others. You can find both in other places so why risk offending anyone? Short answer: Only Nixon could go to China. Longer version: this is a place where it's not just OK but good to be fat. A diet wouldn't have to exist in the context of attaining beauty or acceptance here. It would be purely for the physical/emotional benefit of the dieter and no one else. For me as an FA it would be nice to know HAES is available and supported for so many people I hope will be around for a long time. Longevity aside, it'd be nice to know folks are here because they choose to be, not just because it's the only place they can get to.

Sorry for breaking my self-imposed moratorium from earlier in the thread but that wanted saying.

If anyone agrees re the HAES sub-forum on the Health Board, PM me. If there's interest I'll start a poll (Mods permitting) on the Health Board.

I don't know why a sub-forum??? Why not a sticky HAES thread? And count me in favour!

[joswitch]

srsly.. dnt hiv nrg...
You can lose weight and you will still be a 'size'- you may even feel more positive..
weight loss and size positivity are compatable.. i assure you. You may not like when your gf loses weight.. so maby the expereince is not positive for you.. maby thats what you mean. Many ssbbws lose weight and become bbws. Not all weight loss is about being thin.
I'm not saying you have to be a woman to join in a debate -Just that all the facts and figures in the world can never make you understand what it is like to live as a fat woman. Some fat women i know want to lose weight, whether it is some or a lot their experiences are valid and don't need to come at the expense of 'size acceptance'. (Plus i saw you dressed as a woman..You would totally pass.. not as a fat woman though. :( )

That's not really what size acceptance really means. It's not - I'll be okay if I'm just 50lbs or 100lbs smaller, THEN I'll accept myself.... Saying that - if that's what you chose for yourself, that is entirely your choice to make...

I do get that not all weight loss is about being thin. Most people wouldn't describe my ex gf as "thin" now, but she's lost a LOT (like over 100lbs). That she now accepts herself at her current size, at least, is great (I'm happy for her - really)....

(And now you're appealing to my inner bimbo and it's totally working.... curses... foiled by compliments...:p .... the "passing" thing I mean! not the not fat thing! Argh! Just wanted to make that clear.... )

[BeautifulPoeticDisaster]

FWIW, most fat positive/size acceptance sites I'm aware of seem more draconian than Dims when it comes to the no diet talk/no WLS talk, and they're all run by women (who in many cases are very anti-fat admirers, let alone fat fetishism). I say that because some of us fat women do enjoy the no diet talk rule here. Not trying to stir the pot, just offering another point of view.

I'm all for HAES talk (as a practitioner with great results, btw), and perhaps an interesting thread in the health forum would be a book reading group thread on Linda Bacon's book on HAES. It is a remarkable book that really lays down the principles of Health at Every Size in an eye-opening and useful way, IMO.

How many of those fat positive sites are run and have super-sized women over 400lbs? I find many of the "fat positive" sites are for those who aren't supersized and tarnishing the image of fat acceptance?

I do not believe in HAES. I believe a person can do healthy things at any size, but 600lbs just isn't healthy. Sorry I don't buy it. I believe HAES is like a One Size Fits All t shirt. It doesn't really fit all even though it claims to.

[BeautifulPoeticDisaster]

That's not really what size acceptance really means. It's not - I'll be okay if I'm just 50lbs or 100lbs smaller, THEN I'll accept myself.... Saying that - if that's what you chose for yourself, that is entirely your choice to make...



Someone trying to gain x number of pounds isn't size acceptance either. Or someone encouraging another to gain x number of pounds isn't size acceptance.

I don't think the above things are wrong, or sick, or evil. But I do not and will not pretend it is "size acceptance" It's like dieting it the opposite direction.

[Blackjack]

So what other issues (apart from weight loss) are fat folks silenced on?

...

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o207/MurphmanFA/nocountry5-8068.jpg
Do you have any idea how goddamn crazy you are?

[mergirl]

Someone trying to gain x number of pounds isn't size acceptance either. Or someone encouraging another to gain x number of pounds isn't size acceptance.

I don't think the above things are wrong, or sick, or evil. But I do not and will not pretend it is "size acceptance" It's like dieting it the opposite direction.
Aye!......

[mergirl]

That's not really what size acceptance really means. It's not - I'll be okay if I'm just 50lbs or 100lbs smaller, THEN I'll accept myself.... Saying that - if that's what you chose for yourself, that is entirely your choice to make...

I do get that not all weight loss is about being thin. Most people wouldn't describe my ex gf as "thin" now, but she's lost a LOT (like over 100lbs). That she now accepts herself at her current size, at least, is great (I'm happy for her - really)....

(And now you're appealing to my inner bimbo and it's totally working.... curses... foiled by compliments...:p .... the "passing" thing I mean! not the not fat thing! Argh! Just wanted to make that clear.... )
Size acceptance means to me that you 'are' accepted for the size you are. If someone wants to.. or NEEDS to lose weight then they are NOT anti size acceptance!!

[joswitch]

How many of those fat positive sites are run and have super-sized women over 400lbs? I find many of the "fat positive" sites are for those who aren't supersized and tarnishing the image of fat acceptance?

I do not believe in HAES. I believe a person can do healthy things at any size, but 600lbs just isn't healthy. Sorry I don't buy it. I believe HAES is like a One Size Fits All t shirt. It doesn't really fit all even though it claims to.

I don't know if you've read Linda Bacon's book or the research it's based on? the point of HAES is that people (fat women) were able to improve their health (BP) and mobility, without focussing on or in fact losing weight. Yes, this did rely in part on them being able to be active. So yes if you are immobilised / close to immobile maybe HAES won't be enough for you to acheive the quality of life you want.

[joswitch]

Someone trying to gain x number of pounds isn't size acceptance either. Or someone encouraging another to gain x number of pounds isn't size acceptance.

I don't think the above things are wrong, or sick, or evil. But I do not and will not pretend it is "size acceptance" It's like dieting it the opposite direction.

Sure, feedism isn't Size Acceptance.
It is fat positivity and sexuality though, which is why it's on DIMS.

[joswitch]

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o207/MurphmanFA/nocountry5-8068.jpg
Do you have any idea how goddamn crazy you are?

Why don't you goddamn tell me how goddamn crazy I am, goddamn it!
?:p

[joswitch]

Size acceptance means to me that you 'are' accepted for the size you are. If someone wants to.. or NEEDS to lose weight then they are NOT anti size acceptance!!

Not politically (outward focus), sure. But personally (inward focus), yes it is.
And y'know that's ok. Size Acceptance is an idea - if it makes you personally happy then great! If it doesn't? try a different idea. Which will probably be prominently promoted... somewhere other than DIMS...

[mergirl]

Not politically (outward focus), sure. But personally (inward focus), yes it is.
And y'know that's ok. Size Acceptance is an idea - if it makes you personally happy then great! If it doesn't? try a different idea. Which will probably be prominently promoted... somewhere other than DIMS...
Fair enough. You know though, dims is privately owned so whether something is political or not really doesn't matter. The content on here, at the end of the day is decided on by one man. Like you say, many fat experiences are apparently not about 'Size acceptance' and so are not allowed to be on here. Other experiences like feederism etc are about 'fat acceptance' and so are allowed to be included here....... do you see what everyone is getting at?

[BothGunsBlazing]

I'm pretty sure deciding some one is anti size acceptance based on their personal choice to either lose or gain weight is actually the opposite of acceptance of any kind. You don't know what motives anyone has for why they make any decision and you can't read their mind.

[joswitch]

Fair enough. You know though, dims is privately owned so whether something is political or not really doesn't matter. The content on here, at the end of the day is decided on by one man. Like you say, many fat experiences are apparently not about 'Size acceptance' and so are not allowed to be on here. Other experiences like feederism etc are about 'fat acceptance' and so are allowed to be included here....... do you see what everyone is getting at?

When I say "political" I mean with a small "p" in the sense of - to do with other people / society as a whole / rights / discrimination etc. - in contrast with "personal" - to do with you, your body.

I see a need voiced by some folks for a place where they can talk about the weight loss they personally desire (which does NOT mean they cannot subscribe to Size Acceptance politically).... I see a LOT of energy being put into complaining that they cannot talk about it here, (an environment which does not just scream fat=bad). That energy could be productively used to establish another forum centred on such discussions. At least one member here - who just PM'd me - has experience of a group that works that way, so clearly it can be done.

DIMS isn't giving everyone what they want, so build something else to fill the gaps you see.

[joswitch]

I'm pretty sure deciding some one is anti size acceptance based on their personal choice to either lose or gain weight is actually the opposite of acceptance of any kind. You don't know what motives anyone has for why they make any decision and you can't read their mind.

I take it you're addressing that to me?

By definition: if you chose to modify your body size you are rejecting Size Acceptance - for you, and your body personally. You're entitled to do that 'cos it's YOUR body. For whatever reasons you might have. It's YOUR choice.That does NOT make you bad, or a "traitor", or wrong, nor does it make you a hypocrite if you continue to support Size Acceptance in it's political form(s). (see also my last post to Mer)

[Bafta1]

Where do people get the energy for all the hatred and animosity that goes back and forth here? Aren't the other people here basically your people? The people that are on your team? Yet you act like, come the revolution these are the first people you would line up against the wall. I realize that human nature is that way and that history is full of examples of people turning first against the people with whom they have the most in common, but that is supposed to be a lesson to be learned from rather than an example to be followed.

You don't have to respond in the defensive/aggressive/hateful way you do because someone else provoked you. You provoke them or someone else and they provoke and you provoke and then, soon enough, you have 11 pages of self righteous hate that should embarrass you to look back on.

Instead of thinking about all the ways that you hate what someone said or just all the ways you hate that someone, think instead about what they are trying to say and what you have in common with them. Spend fifteen minutes thinking about what was said rather than trying to respond to as many separate posts as possible. If it isn't worth time to think about what someone wrote, move on to something worth consideration.

Or, hey, conflict is entertainment. Thoughtless is easier than thoughtful. Every fight needs to be fought. Hatred keeps you warm at night. Piss where you eat.

You hit on the reason I stopped posting here.

I forget where I read it, but I saw an article a few months ago by a sociologist who suggested that the anonymity of the forum brings out the darker side in people. She said that any forum descends into nastiness when people don't know each other, or are not protecting any non-virtual social reputation. I don't know. I think this place used to be a lot nicer when I joined. Now it seems kind of bitchy. And I'm really sorry to say that.

[mergirl]

You hit on the reason I stopped posting here.
.
:confused: Its like that picture of the hand that is drawing itself!! :D

[Bafta1]

:confused: Its like that picture of the hand that is drawing itself!! :D

lol!!....... :)

[mergirl]

Yes!! This one!! You should post again.. If only for your wonderful ability to know what i am babbling about and to produce a picture of it!! :D lmao

[TallFatSue]

You hit on the reason I stopped posting here.

I forget where I read it, but I saw an article a few months ago by a sociologist who suggested that the anonymity of the forum brings out the darker side in people. She said that any forum descends into nastiness when people don't know each other, or are not protecting any non-virtual social reputation. I don't know. I think this place used to be a lot nicer when I joined. Now it seems kind of bitchy. And I'm really sorry to say that.
Yes indeedy. My warped sense of humor helps get me through the day, and in previous years I shared my personal experiences with this forum in a very welcoming atmosphere. This year though, my irreverent slices of life regularly got me hit over the head. Maybe it's me, but that's sure not the whole story. To test my theory, I copied a couple of my posts verbatim from a few years ago, and ka-pow! Warmly received 2 years ago, but called BS this year. Something has indeed changed. :confused:

One thing hasn't changed, though. Somewhere around this office is a lemon meringue pie which needs my full attention. :eat2:

PS. Aha! I found it! No chocolate in it, but it'll do quite nicely in a pinch.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Lemon_Meringue_Pie_1.jpg/250px-Lemon_Meringue_Pie_1.jpg

PPS. Speaking of pinch, does anyone remember those heinous old Special K commercials that said if you could pinch more than an inch of fat at your waist, you were too fat? I've been gloriously failing that test with flying colors for decades! :D

[mergirl]

Yes indeedy. My warped sense of humor helps get me through the day, and in previous years I shared my personal experiences with this forum in a very welcoming atmosphere. This year though, my irreverent slices of life regularly got me hit over the head. Maybe it's me, but that's sure not the whole story. To test my theory, I copied a couple of my posts verbatim from a few years ago, and ka-pow! Warmly received 2 years ago, but called BS this year. Something has indeed changed. :confused:


Now if people were calling BS cause you repeated stories..i think i see what happened there!! :D

[Miss Vickie]

Joswitch,

To answer a couple of your comments to me, without quoting a long block of text.

1) Yes, I talk about my WLS, in broad, general terms. Because it's part of who I am. I also talk about my college age children, my dogs, my husband, and my job as a nurse. What of it? My point wasn't that I couldn't mention my WLS and that it was some deep dark secret, but rather the WLS Forum wasn't created (based on the "we're against it, if you must talk about it..." disclaimer on the forum heading) to be in any way anything other than discussion of the controversy. Period. So it's totally cool to have threads like, "WLS KILLED MY PARTNER" but Donni caught a lot of flak -- official flak -- for wanting to discuss her journey with WLS. That's what I'm objecting to. I never received any official (i.e., from a moderator or Conrad) static about my journal, which I've now closed. But others have. And I don't think that's fair.

2) Wow, that thirty seconds of googling really paid off -- you found lots of diet sites. Go, you. However, had you spent that time actually reading the thread, and other discussions about this issue, you would have noticed that those of us who want to discuss weight loss want to do it in a non-size hating way. I've hung out on weight loss sites (have you?) and it's all about fat is eeeeevvvviiiillllll and by that it's anything larger than a size 4. People have unrealistic goals, because they're using BMI charts to determine what their ideal weight is, and when they can't meet those goals (who can?) there is such self loathing and angst, it's disgusting.

So tell me what on earth that has to do with me going from a nearly immobile 320 pounds to a very active 180 pounds? How can I at all relate when I'm still obese by BMI standards, when I still have a big ass, which I love, large breasts which I adore, and still a bit of a tum that I have no intention of getting rid of? Maybe if you'd actually frequented those sites (including obesity help dot com) you'd see why what we want here is nearly diametrically opposed to what they want on those sites. On what weight loss site would a woman celebrate being nearly 200 pounds? I'll answer you -- none. I'm the "before" in most diet ads, not the "after" but you know what? I'm thrilled with my size now, my curves, and my strength. Were I to discuss that on those sites I'd be shouted down or kicked out; but here, celebrating my size should be part of what we do.

Anyhow, I just wanted to address those issues, since you brought them up. I realize you think you have achieved some sort of "gotcha" from your post, but you couldn't be further from the truth. Better luck next time. ;) Also, don't presume to lecture me about what Dimensions is all about. I've been here since long before you and Loves even knew of Dimensions' existence. I've been posting here since 1997, if not earlier, and have posted within the rules as Conrad has expressed them since that time. So you need not tell me what Dimensions is about -- I know. Perhaps far better than you. But I think that we are doing a disservice to fat people who need to lose weight to regain mobility by sending them to fat hating sites for support.

I'm pretty sure deciding some one is anti size acceptance based on their personal choice to either lose or gain weight is actually the opposite of acceptance of any kind. You don't know what motives anyone has for why they make any decision and you can't read their mind.

Yes. This.

[Tooz]

if you chose to modify your body size you are rejecting Size Acceptance - for you, and your body personally.

It takes a lot for me to say this, but this is a wet wad of toilet paper pile of crap. Size acceptance has nothing to do with weight, actually-- not in this sense. It is about OVERALL accepting people in ALL FORMS. Your choice or lose weight or not lose weight is not really part of that. The whole point of SA is that it shouldn't matter. Ugh.

[mossystate]

Precise, in fact. :p

Where else might they have been said...thought of. Hmmmmmm.;):p

oh...and


" By definition: if you chose to modify your body size you are rejecting Size Acceptance "

When you told us, here at Dims, about how you did not accept your body being as thin as you were, and you went about changing it....etc..etc.....you know how to fill in the rest of this thought.

;)

[vardon_grip]

Maybe it's me, but that's sure not the whole story. To test my theory, I copied a couple of my posts verbatim from a few years ago, and ka-pow! Warmly received 2 years ago, but called BS this year. Something has indeed changed. :confused:

Now I know why all of the posts sound the same--you've been cutting and pasting for years.

[Jes]

How can I at all relate when I'm still obese by BMI standards, when I still have a big ass, which I love, large breasts which I adore, and still a bit of a tum that I have no intention of getting rid of? Maybe if you'd actually frequented those sites (including obesity help dot com) you'd see why what we want here is nearly diametrically opposed to what they want on those sites. On what weight loss site would a woman celebrate being nearly 200 pounds? .

I just had a thought, Vickie.

What if you appeared at Dims today, fresh and new, celebrating being nearly 200 lbs and loving yourself? Would you get any flack (a word I'm putting in your mouth but one you seem to be suggesting)?

Is it only the fact that you got to nearly 200 lbs through diet/WLS (and you admit it and talk about it sometimes) that is causing the problem?

See what I'm getting at? I don't know if I have an answer to this question, but I have a hunch.

[mossystate]

Now I know why all of the posts sound the same--you've been cutting and pasting for years.

Yeah. ' Reaction ' couldn't be because some had heard the stories many times, and they were used to beat folks over the head. No, it had to be something awful about the people you were basically fucking with. Wow. OK.:blink:

[tonynyc]

Yes indeedy. My warped sense of humor helps get me through the day, and in previous years I shared my personal experiences with this forum in a very welcoming atmosphere. This year though, my irreverent slices of life regularly got me hit over the head. Maybe it's me, but that's sure not the whole story. To test my theory, I copied a couple of my posts verbatim from a few years ago, and ka-pow! Warmly received 2 years ago, but called BS this year. Something has indeed changed. :confused:

One thing hasn't changed, though. Somewhere around this office is a lemon meringue pie which needs my full attention. :eat2:

PS. Aha! I found it! No chocolate in it, but it'll do quite nicely in a pinch.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Lemon_Meringue_Pie_1.jpg/250px-Lemon_Meringue_Pie_1.jpg

PPS. Speaking of pinch, does anyone remember those heinous old Special K commercials that said if you could pinch more than an inch of fat at your waist, you were too fat? I've been gloriously failing that test with flying colors for decades! :D

Sue: That pie is making me hungry. If anything will get folks in a good mood is a nice slice of pie :happy:


:confused: Its like that picture of the hand that is drawing itself!! :D

MerGirl: I think the secret source of your energy is knowning that the power of the "Shark Punch" is within you. You can summon it at any time... :bow: Plus.. all of us can have a "wee" bit :D of Mr. T in us ... even Kimbo Slice.

http://totallylookslike.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/kimbomrt.jpg

[KHayes666]

PPS. Speaking of pinch, does anyone remember those heinous old Special K commercials that said if you could pinch more than an inch of fat at your waist, you were too fat? I've been gloriously failing that test with flying colors for decades! :D

I don't think I've seen that one. However the Special K commercial I'm looking for is some sort of x-mas special. You see a woman in a red bathrobe bent over checking on presents under the x-mas tree and a child runs halfway down the stairs and says "Santa!"

Then a voiceover says "Need to drop a bit of holiday weight?" or something like that.

[joswitch]

Joswitch,

To answer a couple of your comments to me, without quoting a long block of text.

1) Yes, I talk about my WLS, in broad, general terms. Because it's part of who I am. I also talk about my college age children, my dogs, my husband, and my job as a nurse. What of it? My point wasn't that I couldn't mention my WLS and that it was some deep dark secret, but rather the WLS Forum wasn't created (based on the "we're against it, if you must talk about it..." disclaimer on the forum heading) to be in any way anything other than discussion of the controversy. Period. So it's totally cool to have threads like, "WLS KILLED MY PARTNER" but Donni caught a lot of flak -- official flak -- for wanting to discuss her journey with WLS. That's what I'm objecting to. I never received any official (i.e., from a moderator or Conrad) static about my journal, which I've now closed. But others have. And I don't think that's fair.

2) Wow, that thirty seconds of googling really paid off -- you found lots of diet sites. Go, you. However, had you spent that time actually reading the thread, and other discussions about this issue, you would have noticed that those of us who want to discuss weight loss want to do it in a non-size hating way. I've hung out on weight loss sites (have you?) and it's all about fat is eeeeevvvviiiillllll and by that it's anything larger than a size 4. People have unrealistic goals, because they're using BMI charts to determine what their ideal weight is, and when they can't meet those goals (who can?) there is such self loathing and angst, it's disgusting.

So tell me what on earth that has to do with me going from a nearly immobile 320 pounds to a very active 180 pounds? How can I at all relate when I'm still obese by BMI standards, when I still have a big ass, which I love, large breasts which I adore, and still a bit of a tum that I have no intention of getting rid of? Maybe if you'd actually frequented those sites (including obesity help dot com) you'd see why what we want here is nearly diametrically opposed to what they want on those sites. On what weight loss site would a woman celebrate being nearly 200 pounds? I'll answer you -- none. I'm the "before" in most diet ads, not the "after" but you know what? I'm thrilled with my size now, my curves, and my strength. Were I to discuss that on those sites I'd be shouted down or kicked out; but here, celebrating my size should be part of what we do.

Well, I was with you up to here, insofar as while I disagree that DIMS is the place for it, I get what you're saying is needed and I see the genuine need for it, for some folks - somewhere.



Anyhow, I just wanted to address those issues, since you brought them up. I realize you think you have achieved some sort of "gotcha" from your post, but you couldn't be further from the truth. Better luck next time. ;) Also, don't presume to lecture me about what Dimensions is all about. I've been here since long before you and Loves even knew of Dimensions' existence. I've been posting here since 1997, if not earlier, and have posted within the rules as Conrad has expressed them since that time. So you need not tell me what Dimensions is about -- I know. Perhaps far better than you. But I think that we are doing a disservice to fat people who need to lose weight to regain mobility by sending them to fat hating sites for support.

No "gotcha". Just calling it as it is.

Aaaand we've done the "been here longer than you" dance before.
No you haven't (not significantly) I've been around since '96, I was Fidgreen on here way back when.

And I wasn't "telling you" personally what the "rules" are on DIMS.
I was flagging up the DIMS agenda - cos it does have an agenda. For what it is and for why it's not allowing WL(S) talk. That is all.

[joswitch]

"Originally Posted by joswitch
if you chose to modify your body size you are rejecting Size Acceptance - for you, and your body personally."

It takes a lot for me to say this, but this is a wet wad of toilet paper pile of crap. Size acceptance has nothing to do with weight, actually-- not in this sense. It is about OVERALL accepting people in ALL FORMS. Your choice or lose weight or not lose weight is not really part of that. The whole point of SA is that it shouldn't matter. Ugh.

@ you and Mossystate - you both latched onto that first line and ignored the rest:

"You're entitled to do that 'cos it's YOUR body. For whatever reasons you might have. It's YOUR choice.That does NOT make you bad, or a "traitor", or wrong, nor does it make you a hypocrite if you continue to support Size Acceptance in it's political form(s). (see also my last post to Mer)"

Bolded for emphasis^.

Watch out for those jerking knees.:p

[joswitch]

Where else might they have been said...thought of. Hmmmmmm.;):p

Exactly.

oh...and


" By definition: if you chose to modify your body size you are rejecting Size Acceptance "

When you told us, here at Dims, about how you did not accept your body being as thin as you were, and you went about changing it....etc..etc.....you know how to fill in the rest of this thought.

;)

See my response to Tooz

[Miss Vickie]

I just had a thought, Vickie.

What if you appeared at Dims today, fresh and new, celebrating being nearly 200 lbs and loving yourself? Would you get any flack (a word I'm putting in your mouth but one you seem to be suggesting)?

Is it only the fact that you got to nearly 200 lbs through diet/WLS (and you admit it and talk about it sometimes) that is causing the problem?

See what I'm getting at? I don't know if I have an answer to this question, but I have a hunch.

Yeah, good question. Hard to say, although my guess would be that I'd be razzed for "not actually being fat", as some of the small and mid-size BBW's have had happen to them. I'm sure the problem is at least in part that I went from being an active and healthy BBW in the mid 200's to being in a lot of pain and having significant medical problems related to my size once I got over 300. Had I stayed "fat and happy", then I'd be a poster child for HAES but despite my organic foods diet, despite being physically active, I started to have problems which were exacerbated by my size. HAES is a great concept, and when it works for people, it's great. But when it doesn't, and that person needs to make changes (lose weight) to live a healthy and active life, suddenly they're persona non grata. I have no regrets though, other than not making the choice I did earlier, because I was scared by the stories I read here about people who were maimed or had died from WLS, while stories of people dying when fat, even if their weight contributed to their death, was minimized.

Joswitch, the only reason I brought up how long I've been at Dimensions is that you were presuming to tell me what Dimensions is about and what the rules are. I think I know -- probably better than you -- what Dimensions' aims are, since I've been active part of the community for over a decade. You don't need to lecture me about size acceptance, 'cause I've lived it (have you?) and you certainly don't need to lecture me about Dimensions, since I've been here since the "good old days", when I was castigated for exercising and eating healthily.

[TallFatSue]

Sue: That pie is making me hungry. If anything will get folks in a good mood is a nice slice of pie :happy:
Oh I'm in a great mood now. Yes indeedy, if life gives me lemons, I make lemon meringue pie. Or better yet, I persuade my mother to bake one for me. Of course the price of that is to hear her nag about the size of my belly again, but it's worth it, especially because she contributes to it! Then there are all the other pre-Thanksgiving goodies she's baking as trials runs, in her annual quest to upstage everyone else with her cooking and baking prowess. I'm a very willing taste-tester, and I'm usually enjoying a high-calorie buzz from well before Halloween until well after the New Year. :eat2:

[TallFatSue]

Yeah, good question. Hard to say, although my guess would be that I'd be razzed for "not actually being fat", as some of the small and mid-size BBW's have had happen to them. I'm sure the problem is at least in part that I went from being an active and healthy BBW in the mid 200's to being in a lot of pain and having significant medical problems related to my size once I got over 300. Had I stayed "fat and happy", then I'd be a poster child for HAES but despite my organic foods diet, despite being physically active, I started to have problems which were exacerbated by my size. HAES is a great concept, and when it works for people, it's great. But when it doesn't, and that person needs to make changes (lose weight) to live a healthy and active life, suddenly they're persona non grata. I have no regrets though, other than not making the choice I did earlier, because I was scared by the stories I read here about people who were maimed or had died from WLS, while stories of people dying when fat, even if their weight contributed to their death, was minimized.
This seems perfectly sensible, and I can relate to it. As long as I'm happy and healthy at my size, the fat can stay. But if it becomes a problem, then it only makes sense to lose weight or take other necessary steps to preserve or restore our health. Good health matters most, and you did what you had to do, difficult though it probably was.

[Saoirse]

This thred wud b hotter if it gained wait

[joswitch]

*snip*
Joswitch, the only reason I brought up how long I've been at Dimensions is that you were presuming to tell me what Dimensions is about and what the rules are. I think I know -- probably better than you -- what Dimensions' aims are, since I've been active part of the community for over a decade. You don't need to lecture me about size acceptance, 'cause I've lived it (have you?) and you certainly don't need to lecture me about Dimensions, since I've been here since the "good old days", when I was castigated for exercising and eating healthily.

Do carry on taking it personally and using negative, loaded words like "lecture". Then you can carry on taking a hostile stance instead of addressing the actual point.

DIMS does not exist to facilitate weight loss discussion. We've established that. Whether you (or I) think that is good or bad is moot.

You and others want to talk weight loss in a place where fat is not seen as instantly = evil/death. You and others pour endless energy into DIMS pushing for this. If you took that energy and built the forum that you wanted, you'd have had it done years ago.
So why don't you go do that???

Go get the thing you want, instead of constantly complaining about how you don't have it here.

[joswitch]

And no - I'm not suggesting that you or anyone else should have to leave DIMS! You CAN visit more than one forum to get all the stuff you want!

[Mathias]

Do carry on taking it personally and using negative, loaded words like "lecture". Then you can carry on taking a hostile stance instead of addressing the actual point.

DIMS does not exist to facilitate weight loss discussion. We've established that. Whether you (or I) think that is good or bad is moot.

You and others want to talk weight loss in a place where fat is not seen as instantly = evil/death. You and others pour endless energy into DIMS pushing for this. If you took that energy and built the forum that you wanted, you'd have had it done years ago.
So why don't you go do that???

Go get the thing you want, instead of constantly complaining about how you don't have it here.

It cuts both ways. Don't throw a fit when some people do choose to lose way for whatever reason. Just because people here chose to lose weight to better their health it doesn't mean that this place is all of a sudden all pro weight loss all the time. It's more of a HAES approach.

[Miss Vickie]

Do carry on taking it personally and using negative, loaded words like "lecture". Then you can carry on taking a hostile stance instead of addressing the actual point.

DIMS does not exist to facilitate weight loss discussion. We've established that. Whether you (or I) think that is good or bad is moot.

You and others want to talk weight loss in a place where fat is not seen as instantly = evil/death. You and others pour endless energy into DIMS pushing for this. If you took that energy and built the forum that you wanted, you'd have had it done years ago.
So why don't you go do that???

Go get the thing you want, instead of constantly complaining about how you don't have it here.

Please don't tell me what to do. You're far too young to be my father. :rolleyes: I realize that you'd like nothing more than to have us leave and/or shut up but sorry, Jos. You don't get your way in this. But don't worry, there will still be lots of fat women around for you to get your yaya's with. We're just trying to give those who want to lose a little bit of weight a reasonable option, in a place that supposedly caters to fat women.

[joswitch]

Please don't tell me what to do. You're far too young to be my father. :rolleyes: I realize that you'd like nothing more than to have us leave and/or shut up but sorry, Jos. You don't get your way in this. But don't worry, there will still be lots of fat women around for you to get your yaya's with. We're just trying to give those who want to lose a little bit of weight a reasonable option, in a place that supposedly caters to fat women.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do.
Ok that bit: "Go get the thing you want, instead of constantly complaining about how you don't have it here." I should have phrased as a suggestion / question. Sorry, my bad.
I'm not trying to engineer a confrontation with you.

It was a reasonable / genuine question: I genuinely wonder WHY you think your energies are better spent complaining on DIMS (and getting nowhere)??? vs. actually building what you (say) you want??? What are you really, truly getting out of complaining? How does it benefit you to complain vs. to build?


and you missed this post of mine too:
And no - I'm not suggesting that you or anyone else should have to leave DIMS! You CAN visit more than one forum to get all the stuff you want!


P.S. Off the back of your sig quote I am currently reading "the secret of happiness" co-authored by the Dalai Llama... It's good - so thanks! :)

[Miss Vickie]

I'm not trying to tell you what to do.
Ok that bit: "Go get the thing you want, instead of constantly complaining about how you don't have it here." I should have phrased as a suggestion / question. Sorry, my bad.
I'm not trying to engineer a confrontation with you.

It was a reasonable / genuine question: I genuinely wonder WHY you think your energies are better spent complaining on DIMS (and getting nowhere)??? vs. actually building what you (say) you want??? What are you really, truly getting out of complaining? How does it benefit you to complain vs. to build?



Okay, reasonable question.

1) What makes you think I haven't gone out to build what I want? What makes you think I'm not building it now? One does not preclude the other, does it? I'm a passionate, energetic woman who can do many things at once. :) Ask my husband. He'll tell you... he can barely keep up with me! In fact, as I write to you now, I'm doing laundry, running a sink full of dishes, warming up my car and petting my dog. So see? Many irons in the fire.

2) I can reach a larger number of people here at Dimensions than at a new site that takes awhile to build up traffic. But even if I did get another site going I would still wish for an openness in communications for Dimensions because I think it's better for the fat women who want it. Lots of us here want it, and in a protected forum I don't see who it could possibly hurt (in the same way that humiliation stories and humiliation scenarios and discussion of that kind of stuff doesn't "hurt" those of us who don't read it, right? Don't like it... don't read it, right? See where I'm going with this?) That's why I'll stay and passionately lobby for it. Because it would benefit the women who desire it, just as the GLBT board helped them, the SSBBW board helped them, and the like. My bitching about wanting a health board was at least a teensy bit responsible for why we finally got one. Had I just shut up and not said anything (and moreso the other opinionated people who wanted it who spoke up for it) we wouldn't have it. And wouldn't that be a shame?


and you missed this post of mine too:
And no - I'm not suggesting that you or anyone else should have to leave DIMS! You CAN visit more than one forum to get all the stuff you want!

Okay, fair enough. But you're still telling us/asking us/requesting that we shut the hell up, yes? In so many words? So we can stay, as long as we suck it up and take it like a... erm... woman. Yes?


P.S. Off the back of your sig quote I am currently reading "the secret of happiness" co-authored by the Dalai Llama... It's good - so thanks! :)

Thanks! I love it. As well as the Thomas Jefferson quote. :)

Hope this clarifies. I'm off to the races.

[joswitch]

Okay, reasonable question.

1) What makes you think I haven't gone out to build what I want? What makes you think I'm not building it now? One does not preclude the other, does it? I'm a passionate, energetic woman who can do many things at once. :) Ask my husband. He'll tell you... he can barely keep up with me! In fact, as I write to you now, I'm doing laundry, running a sink full of dishes, warming up my car and petting my dog. So see? Many irons in the fire.

2) I can reach a larger number of people here at Dimensions than at a new site that takes awhile to build up traffic. But even if I did get another site going I would still wish for an openness in communications for Dimensions because I think it's better for the fat women who want it. Lots of us here want it, and in a protected forum I don't see who it could possibly hurt (in the same way that humiliation stories and humiliation scenarios and discussion of that kind of stuff doesn't "hurt" those of us who don't read it, right? Don't like it... don't read it, right? See where I'm going with this?) That's why I'll stay and passionately lobby for it. Because it would benefit the women who desire it, just as the GLBT board helped them, the SSBBW board helped them, and the like. My bitching about wanting a health board was at least a teensy bit responsible for why we finally got one. Had I just shut up and not said anything (and moreso the other opinionated people who wanted it who spoke up for it) we wouldn't have it. And wouldn't that be a shame?




Okay, fair enough. But you're still telling us/asking us/requesting that we shut the hell up, yes? In so many words? So we can stay, as long as we suck it up and take it like a... erm... woman. Yes?

No, I wasn't telling you to shut up. I was suggesting that you might spend your energies more profitably than you are. But you have answered my question, thanks. Just as Darth wanted the traffic / readers for his stories, you want the traffic for the things you care about. Ok, a fair and honest answer.




Thanks! I love it. As well as the Thomas Jefferson quote. :)

Hope this clarifies. I'm off to the races.

And I'm gonna go cook dinner. I'm done here in this thread I think. I've made my point(s) and I've learned a bit more of your motivations. That'll do.
Peace.

[Tooz]

@ you and Mossystate - you both latched onto that first line and ignored the rest:

"You're entitled to do that 'cos it's YOUR body. For whatever reasons you might have. It's YOUR choice.That does NOT make you bad, or a "traitor", or wrong, nor does it make you a hypocrite if you continue to support Size Acceptance in it's political form(s). (see also my last post to Mer)"

Bolded for emphasis^.

Watch out for those jerking knees.:p

Wait, jerking knees? Looks like someone needs to grasp some concepts. I did not include the rest because the first turd negated anything else you said. I can read. I read it all.

[Shosh]

I'm glad you repeated the "High horses' thing cause it's not like I read it the first time. :rolleyes:

Enough already. Saying repeatedly that "we all make mistakes" is kinda pointless. Yes we all do but when you repeat it twice in a thread and once in a PM it starts to be taunting and it's tiresome. Considering your first mistake was insulting the paysite board and by extension Conrad, I'd stop mentioning other people's mistake, ok?

Yeah whatever.

Talking about repeating oneself, you are the one going on and on about the weight board. You created a special thread/poll for it, and you are harping on about it here. Now that is bloody tiresome.

Enough already.

I do not know what it is to be a fetishist coz I aint one, but I know what it is to be a fat girl and to live all that entails.

Unlike yourself. Ok?:rolleyes:

It comes across to me that you really do not care about fat people and their issues, you just care about getting your freak on.

I have to be honest.

[LoveBHMS]

You know what?

I am so f**king disgusted right now, and so angry, I don't trust myself to respond to your post.

You do not know FUCK ALL about me, my life, how I look and have looked in the past, or what my relationships are. You don't know who my friends are or how I care for them. Bottom line is you don't know SHIT. And until you do? Until you do, refrain from saying anything and passing judgement on what I do, who i do it with, and how I feel.

I've been fat, I've had eating disorders, I've nearly killed myself with them. I've experienced self loathing you can only fucking dream of. I've been hospitalized. I've starved myself to the point where I could not walk up a flight of stairs and couldn't think. I've stuck my finger down my throat all over town and abused laxatives to a point that is too disgusting to mention here.

And i've had fat friends who I loved, cared about, and cared for beyond what you can EVER imagine. Conveniently forget that a BHM pal of mine has MS? I don't post about every damn thing I do every second of every day...but I give money to the MS Society, raise money for it, and donate my time because a BHM friend of mine has the disease. And the best you can do is say I just want to get my freak on? You are so far off the mark I can't even tell you.

So when you get off YOUR high horse and quit sitting in judgement of everyone else on this board you can maybe, MAYBE think about what you've said here.

I'm putting you on ignore after this.

Oh, and I have to be honest too. That all was me being honest.

[Shosh]

Guess you wont be reading this then, but we all have had our own problems.
I am sorry for yours but, nevertheless I am tired of your holier than thou attitude.
I am not judging anybody. I expressed in that thread on the weight board about not being able to conceive of feeling comfortable with being called a fat tub of lard. That is not judging, that is expressing how I felt about that.

Why cant the weight board moderator be left with the decision about what rules and protection shall apply to that board, instead of one person demanding through the guise of a poll that that board be protected?

Whatever.

[Dr. P Marshall]

I appreciate that. Just as I try hard not to judge what you find a turn on, I appreciate the same respect toward my feelings, as the (in a general way of course) potential recipient of said affection and attention. See, that's why you're one of the "white hats", because you seem to see us as people, not as just balls of fat with which to get jiggy. Or something. ;)



I know that you mean well, but do you honestly think we haven't tried that?

We're strong minded, intelligent, thinking women with a lot of life experience and strong opinions, something those who know us well appreciate about us.

As for the first part, thank you.:) For the second part, I'm sure you have tried and I wasn't trying to be patronizing, what I was actually thinking about was how many tries it took to get the FA/FFA board and that it took different approaches and different people at different times. I guess I just thought if there was ever any chance of this changing......civility was the best route. (I am not saying you, personally, have not been civil. I just mean the general tone on the boards hasn't been lately). For the third part.....I want you to all know that I am fetishizing your minds, is that creepy?:p (See? I CAN have a sense of humor about it sometimes.;))

OK, this thread has already changed topics so I'm going to jump in, even though at this point 1)it will probably be considered off topic and justifiably moderated and 2) I doubt anyone is reading it anymore, but here goes. The following two points are the only reason I could understand why the diet talk/weight loss talk ban might be enforced. I'm just trying to see all sides, by the way, but these two quotes do bring up a point.

i'd err on the side of freedom even though i myself would love a diet free place to come to. i'm tired of hearing about dieting and hating fat bodies etc... myself. its everywhere you look and its a downer.

there's no reason to make others feel bad, so I can understand how this is a slippery slope


I haven't changed my mind or anything, but this was the one reason I could think of that the ban may be in place that didn't have to do with FAs at all....that maybe some fat folks want a complete respite from that type of talk altogether. But I must admit, I have only recently even learned that there was an actual ban on diet talk so I haven't followed the history of the arguments against lifting the ban.


As i have said, its not just about weight loss or being able to talk about real experiences, it is that is seems that Fa sexuality and fetishism is given priority over fat people's reality. The wl censorship is just an indication of that.


Actually, I share your perception of this. (I guess I now too must be high.;)) I have only been a member here for a little over two years, but my understanding is that Dims was a lot different in the past and much more FA centric. Perhaps I am incorrect in thinking that, but my understanding of its history is that it started as a more FA centered place. Before anyone misunderstands me, I am NOT saying that's how it is now, or how it should be, but I wonder if some of the attitude and tone of the site aren't left over from that time. I am actually just asking/theorizing. I am admittedly not a Dims history scholar, but from things I have read in various places, it seems as if the forums have changed/adapted over time as the membership has changed. It kind of seems like this is an area where the site is a bit behind the times. I'm sorry I was flippant with you earlier, but the reason I was trying to bring you back from the brink of hyperbole is the following......(I'm sure this is going to get me in heaps of trouble with someone...I'm not even sure who, but here goes) I think the reason that the approach is so important is because I think there are conspiracy theories on both sides. By that I mean that I do think some fat admirers (non-fetishist and fetishist) worry that if the site changes too much, there will no longer be a place for them. I am not one who subscribes to that theory, this is just the sense I get sometimes. That is why I think making it clear what the argument is actually for is important and not accidentally alienating too many people. I think a lot of FA/fetishists would either be in favor of fat people having more of a voice (as long as Weight board rules were respected etc) or they would be neutral to the idea. I think the problem with speaking too broadly and throwing out too many vague concepts or things that aren't entirely accurate, or framing things as us vs. them is that it puts people on the defensive and these people might actually be on your side. It's just that they suddenly feel that someone wants to take something from them and so they dig in their heels and don't even realize what the real problem is(fat people not having enough of a voice) and think they're being attacked or their fantasies are being attacked. I know, ultimately, none of the rules may change, but in terms of keeping a climate on the boards that is more congenial I think it helps if people are careful with how they word their responses, especially their responses to FAs and fetishists. Not all members here read all threads and so someone may not know the history between two posters and then it just seems as if someone is attacking all fetishists or all FAs or all readers of the library. Does this make sense? It makes sense in my head but I am afraid it is coming out wrong. (And no, I am not high). I know personally, that I understand the context, I understand the frustrations, I AM on the side of those who want the ban lifted, I really even like one of the posters who wrote something that I found offensive, but.....I still found it offensive no matter how much I tried to shrug it off because it started to seem like a cheap shot at all of us when the problem was with one of us. And no, I don't mean "oh boo hoo" but I am thinking about the fact that others may see that, not know and like the poster and decide not to stay or that they should slink back to one board and never participate in the community, etc, etc. When I first got here I was actually afraid of the main boards because there was so much tension on the weight board and I thought maybe there were actually different "factions" here and I had to pick a side or something. After I read around, I learned that wasn't true, but not everyone will take the time. Then again, I can also see how if you (personally and others) feel that you are beating your head against a wall that maybe it seems like it's all over but the venting, in which case......you can always vent to me, you know that.;)

Let's not obfuscate - we're talking about weight loss and WLS - not "managing" (which implies maintainence) nor taking care of your body per se. (which might be HAES).

To paraphrase myself: I like you joswitch, but are you high? (:psee my first post in this thread where I asked that of mergirl too. I am just being fair.)

Here is the thing, joswitch, I have been thinking a lot about this thread and then I came on and read everything you wrote. I understand your arguments, I understand what the official rules are and I understand the principles of size acceptance....BUT I am a female FA who is thin. On the BHM/FFA board is a thread called "OK for him, but not for me" where thin female FAs talk about staying thin/not wanting to be fat. There is a thread on the FA/FFA board called "FAs and your own weight" I think you may have even participated in that one. Depending on the poster, that occasionally ALSO had fat admirers of both genders discussing keeping their weight down. So while I can see the arguments against diet talk because it makes fat people feel pressured, I do have some trouble understanding why I could (I did not participate in the threads by the way) go onto one of those threads and say that I workout/eat a certain way to stay a certain size, yet a BBW or BHM can't do the same. I mean I am a woman on the boards and many FFAs participated in those threads and no one complained that it was anti-size acceptance. No one complained that it made anyone feel pressured to be thin. So if that can work, why can't the occasional thread or the occasional post by a BBW or BHM also be allowed?

I know I am probably causing way more trouble than I intend to by asking this. I just honestly am confused about that issue. I had forgotten about those threads until earlier today and then it did seem strange to me. There was also a thread once called "why do you think you are thin?" and again, some of the answers did involve the very issues that aren't supposed to be discussed, because some of the answers made it clear that some work to stay or be thin or worked in the past to become thin. I can understand not wanting this place to turn into a weight loss mecca, but no one thought that those fat admirers answering honestly was going to throw everything off course, so why would a thread about fat people wanting to lose weight but still be fat derail everything?

Here's my snarky comment: Maybe everyone should just become an honorary fat admirer.:rolleyes: (I'm trying to be more like Ernest.:p)

[SocialbFly]

It's not hatred, it's something different. For want of another term I call it the "NAAFA Syndrome." In essence, whenever members of groups who are suppressed in society come together in what was created as a safe place, they tend to start attacking each other.

This puzzled me for years as I've seen it in other similar groups as well. At the time, it occurred to me that perhaps the primary purpose of NAAFA was not so much the stated goals, but to serve as sort of a sandbox where people can safely blow off steam and anger without instantly be disqualified because they are fat or prefer fat.

Do you think sometimes since fat people are labeled "fat and jolly" and often times we are not allowed by society to express our frustration or anger with society, that we feel free to express it here???

I honestly feel if some people sat across from another person and actively said what they said here, maybe the response they got, in real time, would prevent them from spouting some of their shit ever again.

[Fascinita]

Let's not obfuscate - we're talking about weight loss and WLS - not "managing" (which implies maintainence) nor taking care of your body per se. (which might be HAES).

If you don't like the existing 128million offerings - why not start you're own forum? - really it's not hard anymore - there was a breakaway "faction" from FF who did just that - over something waaaaaay more minor than this issue. The new forum was up and running in days.

Yayz! for cheesecake!:D


Hey, jos.

When a woman loses weight, does all the sexiness melt away?

lololol

[Shosh]

You know what I do feel bad about this whole thread, I really do. I do not want to have to be so blunt, I just felt sick of being made to feel like I was judging others on the weight board when I was not.

I do not know what the answer is to all of this. I told myself I was just going to confine myself to posting on the pic threads and my own thread, and threads acknowledging people's lifes milestones like babies and marriages.

To the OP, I do not know what the answer to all this is.

[bigsexy920]

NAAFA Syndrome, maybe - I think "Bitch Bag" syndrome is more like it. Some people just have to bitch. And thats everywhere not just here - I see this at work - at other peoples work.

I do think its about being heard I dont think half the time it has relivance to the subject at hand. We get so clouded with OUR thoughts and ideas that we can't even see that there may be a possiblity that we might be wrong. Its ok to be wrong sometimes. Life is not always about being right. To top it off if we cant understand that one persons "right" my not me your version of "right" dosent make it wrong.

[The Fez]

Like moths to a flame, haha. Brilliant.

[KHayes666]

Guess you wont be reading this then, but we all have had our own problems.
I am sorry for yours but, nevertheless I am tired of your holier than thou attitude.
I am not judging anybody. I expressed in that thread on the weight board about not being able to conceive of feeling comfortable with being called a fat tub of lard. That is not judging, that is expressing how I felt about that.

Why cant the weight board moderator be left with the decision about what rules and protection shall apply to that board, instead of one person demanding through the guise of a poll that that board be protected?

Whatever.

On that thread, you didn't just say you could conceive being comfortable with being called a tub of lard....no no, you said you couldn't conceive ANYONE that would enjoy it. Saying you yourself couldn't comprehend being called a tub of lard, I can totally believe that if you've never experienced that before. No, you said you couldn't conceive "anyone" which is a much broader statement

Posts like that can be considered judgmental and quite a few people stood up to that statement. It may not have been your intention, but it was the same kind of high horse caliber statement you're accusing Loves of making. For example. I can't stand a music group called ICP but they have legions of fans that dress up like clowns and don't shower for a year. I may not like it but obviously a lot of other people do...so I can't say "I can't imagine ANYONE who could like ICP" when I know there are.

You also said you're not a fetishist, my question is have you ever tried one out or dated a charming fetishist? After all, you posted your own thread about how much weight you've gained this year....ever think that some of the guys that responded (me included back when I was single) could actually treat you right and not just as a fantasy or a fetish?

Imagine if you were snuggling with a guy you liked and trusted, either the stereo was playing something or there was a movie on and the guy was calling you beautiful, kissing you romantically and saying you've grown more gorgeous than ever. No, he's not saying you're a fat tub of lard, but he's making it known that he likes the fact you've packed it on in a more subtle way. Would you REALLY brush his hand away if he starts slowly massaging your belly whispering in your ear how gorgeous and attractive you are to him? Would you REALLY tell him to stop or slap him if he admitted that he likes the fact you've gained? How about if he was rubbing your sides slowly, gently kissing your neck, cheek and forehead and whispered in your ear "Sexy Shoshie really did stack it on".....you wouldn't like that? Suppose he's pouring wine into your glass, running his fingers through your hair, gazing into your eyes and patting your stomach to watch it jiggle a little. I'm not talking about a guy you've never met trying to put the moves on you either, I'm talking about someone you know from the community (or not, could be just someone you know) that just so happens to have what you would consider inconceivable fetishes.

Not everything has to be Natasfan-like staring at you through binnoculars in a parking lot down the street while saying "I want you to weigh 500 pounds you fat piglet ehehehehehe" type of situation. There are instances where fetishes can be incorporated into hot romance, I would know. It is possible to have charm and be a fetishist.

Now, your last statement I won't question. The mods are the final say and its up to them to enforce the rules, you're right about that. However the reason the poll was created was because certain posters felt like the rules were being broken when non-fetishists attacked the fetishists.

[Shosh]

On that thread, you didn't just say you could conceive being comfortable with being called a tub of lard....no no, you said you couldn't conceive ANYONE that would enjoy it. Saying you yourself couldn't comprehend being called a tub of lard, I can totally believe that if you've never experienced that before. No, you said you couldn't conceive "anyone" which is a much broader statement

Posts like that can be considered judgmental and quite a few people stood up to that statement. It may not have been your intention, but it was the same kind of high horse caliber statement you're accusing Loves of making. For example. I can't stand a music group called ICP but they have legions of fans that dress up like clowns and don't shower for a year. I may not like it but obviously a lot of other people do...so I can't say "I can't imagine ANYONE who could like ICP" when I know there are.

You also said you're not a fetishist, my question is have you ever tried one out or dated a charming fetishist? After all, you posted your own thread about how much weight you've gained this year....ever think that some of the guys that responded (me included back when I was single) could actually treat you right and not just as a fantasy or a fetish?

Imagine if you were snuggling with a guy you liked and trusted, either the stereo was playing something or there was a movie on and the guy was calling you beautiful, kissing you romantically and saying you've grown more gorgeous than ever. No, he's not saying you're a fat tub of lard, but he's making it known that he likes the fact you've packed it on in a more subtle way. Would you REALLY brush his hand away if he starts slowly massaging your belly whispering in your ear how gorgeous and attractive you are to him? Would you REALLY tell him to stop or slap him if he admitted that he likes the fact you've gained? How about if he was rubbing your sides slowly, gently kissing your neck, cheek and forehead and whispered in your ear "Sexy Shoshie really did stack it on".....you wouldn't like that? Suppose he's pouring wine into your glass, running his fingers through your hair, gazing into your eyes and patting your stomach to watch it jiggle a little. I'm not talking about a guy you've never met trying to put the moves on you either, I'm talking about someone you know from the community (or not, could be just someone you know) that just so happens to have what you would consider inconceivable fetishes.

Not everything has to be Natasfan-like staring at you through binnoculars in a parking lot down the street while saying "I want you to weigh 500 pounds you fat piglet ehehehehehe" type of situation. There are instances where fetishes can be incorporated into hot romance, I would know. It is possible to have charm and be a fetishist.

Now, your last statement I won't question. The mods are the final say and its up to them to enforce the rules, you're right about that. However the reason the poll was created was because certain posters felt like the rules were being broken when non-fetishists attacked the fetishists.

Fair point re the first point you are making. I still did not mean it in a judgemental way.

At the same time I think the fetishists are getting just a lil precious. Loves has also been going on and on and on about protection of posts, and protection of the weight board.

There is already one protected area. Start protecting every area that every small interest group wants protected and there is no discussion forum.

Nice Natasfan reference.:D

[fatgirlflyin]

Aren't the other people here basically your people? The people that are on your team?

I'm fat, other people here are fat, and for lots of us, that's the only thing we have in common. I don't feel any particular kind of kinship with someone just because they happen to be fat like me, there has to be something else there...

[KHayes666]

Fair point re the first point you are making. I still did not mean it in a judgemental way.

At the same time I think the fetishists are getting just a lil precious. Loves has also been going on and on and on about protection of posts, and protection of the weight board.

There is already one protected area. Start protecting every area that every small interest group wants protected and there is no discussion forum.

Nice Natasfan reference.:D

Its getting to be precious because there was constant negativity going on at the time. There wasn't a single topic that didn't end or get railroaded by the U.T.O.C. or some other blowhard saying how evil fetishists were and insinuating that they're sick and twisted. That's why Loves made the poll she did, because people were being attacked for admitting what turned them on. Personal attacks are against the rules and the rules are supposed to be enforced.

If I went into the BHM boards and say I can't imagine how men can let themselves go, I'd be banned. If I went to the WLS board and said "you all suck" I'd be banned immediately and rightfully so. So with that said, how is it the U.T.O.C. are allowed to go on threads like "who's too big to drive" and make fun of the OP of the thread and fetishists in general? There's people like Sweet&Fat who contributes to threads just by saying "Its not my thing, but I respect people who are into it". No name calling, no personal attacks its "I don't approve, but carry on." Statements like that make their point without hurting anyone, that's not what got Loves, myself and others mad. It was the people who DID personally attack people and make sarcastic remarks toward the topics at hand that brought our piss to a boil.

Like I said, other forums outlaw personal attacks and anti-forum bullshit...why can't the weight board be protected like them too?

[Shosh]

Its getting to be precious because there was constant negativity going on at the time. There wasn't a single topic that didn't end or get railroaded by the U.T.O.C. or some other blowhard saying how evil fetishists were and insinuating that they're sick and twisted. That's why Loves made the poll she did, because people were being attacked for admitting what turned them on. Personal attacks are against the rules and the rules are supposed to be enforced.

If I went into the BHM boards and say I can't imagine how men can let themselves go, I'd be banned. If I went to the WLS board and said "you all suck" I'd be banned immediately and rightfully so. So with that said, how is it the U.T.O.C. are allowed to go on threads like "who's too big to drive" and make fun of the OP of the thread and fetishists in general? There's people like Sweet&Fat who contributes to threads just by saying "Its not my thing, but I respect people who are into it". No name calling, no personal attacks its "I don't approve, but carry on." Statements like that make their point without hurting anyone, that's not what got Loves, myself and others mad. It was the people who DID personally attack people and make sarcastic remarks toward the topics at hand that brought our piss to a boil.

Like I said, other forums outlaw personal attacks and anti-forum bullshit...why can't the weight board be protected like them too?

U.T.O.C? Who/what is that?

[Santaclear]

On that thread, you didn't just say you could conceive being comfortable with being called a tub of lard....no no, you said you couldn't conceive ANYONE that would enjoy it. Saying you yourself couldn't comprehend being called a tub of lard, I can totally believe that if you've never experienced that before. No, you said you couldn't conceive "anyone" which is a much broader statement.
Posts like that can be considered judgmental and quite a few people stood up to that statement. It may not have been your intention, but it was the same kind of high horse caliber statement you're accusing Loves of making.

.....However the reason the poll was created was because certain posters felt like the rules were being broken when non-fetishists attacked the fetishists.

So, say a post is judgmental. So what? Aren't people's ideas strong enough to stand up to a single judgmental post? Why be so threatened by someone disagreeing?

And this "attacking". How is any of it an "attack"? By someone saying they "can't conceive of someone being comfortable....," etc. etc? Calling it an "attack" is way overkill.

[Santaclear]

Where do people get the energy for all the hatred and animosity that goes back and forth here? Aren't the other people here basically your people? The people that are on your team? Yet you act like, come the revolution these are the first people you would line up against the wall. I realize that human nature is that way and that history is full of examples of people turning first against the people with whom they have the most in common, but that is supposed to be a lesson to be learned from rather than an example to be followed.

You don't have to respond in the defensive/aggressive/hateful way you do because someone else provoked you. You provoke them or someone else and they provoke and you provoke and then, soon enough, you have 11 pages of self righteous hate that should embarrass you to look back on.

Carl, can you explain this more?

[fatgirlflyin]

Fetishist: I find ________ hot.

COF representative: That's really sad you get off on somebody struggling.


Loves, you have arthritis right (or some health issue with your hips)? If you were to see someone posting how something that caused you a great deal of pain or embarassment got them off, how would you feel?

I get that there's a fat sexuality board, I get that its for the fetishists, but can't you see how that would cause someone distress?

The more that we talk about this issue (over and over and over) the more it really begins to feel as though the two parties really can't exist in the same place...

[Shosh]

So, say a post is judgmental. So what? Aren't people's ideas strong enough to stand up to a single judgmental post? Why be so threatened by someone disagreeing?

And this "attacking". How is any of it an "attack"? By someone saying they "can't conceive of someone being comfortable....," etc. etc? Calling it an "attack" is way overkill.

It is indeed overkill.

I think those who want the weight board protected, should go the full monty and get it made a private board.

Would that be enough, or would more accomodations be needed?

[KHayes666]

So, say a post is judgmental. So what? Aren't people's ideas strong enough to stand up to a single judgmental post? Why be so threatened by someone disagreeing?

And this "attacking". How is any of it an "attack"? By someone saying they "can't conceive of someone being comfortable....," etc. etc? Calling it an "attack" is way overkill.

So what? The point is Dimensions is supposed to be about accepting, not judging! Like I said, there's a difference in saying "This isn't my thing, but others like it so I won't say a word" and then there's "You people are sick for liking this." One's a disagreeable statement and the other is a personal attack....get it yet?

Its an attack when someone makes a statement how they can't see "ANYONE" who can like a fetish, making it sound like people who actually do are second class citizens. There's a difference in disagreeing and being a jerk

[Shosh]

So what? The point is Dimensions is supposed to be about accepting, not judging! Like I said, there's a difference in saying "This isn't my thing, but others like it so I won't say a word" and then there's "You people are sick for liking this." One's a disagreeable statement and the other is a personal attack....get it yet?

Its an attack when someone makes a statement how they can't see "ANYONE" who can like a fetish, making it sound like people who actually do are second class citizens. There's a difference in disagreeing and being a jerk

Get it right mate, I said I could not conceive of anybody liking being called a fat tub O 'lard. I am speaking from a woman's point of view.

I did not talk about fetishes per se.

Round and round the mulberry bush.

[mergirl]

I must admit, I have only recently even learned that there was an actual ban on diet talk so I haven't followed the history of the arguments against lifting the ban.


srsly.. no need to apologize for saying that by me saying there was a ban on diet talk i was a conspiricy theorist who was high on drugs and needed to get my facts straight!! :D lmao

Seriously though..i get what you were saying (I didnt quote you all cause it was a lot and besides i wanted to get my wee snark in at you!! ;) )
I think it can seem there is an Us v's them attitude. If you look in many posts you will see me defending the rights of people to be able to express their fetishes as long as they don't harm others (are consentual). I am not anti fetishist and many people are not who have been told they are prudes who dont want the fetishists to have a space. I think a lot of this IS a paranoia that somehow spaces will be taken away from people. I know for a fact that wont happen;Not in regards to fetishists (Oh i'm getting tired of the word fetishist!!) -The up coming weight board new rules i know will see to more protection in that regard i'm sure.
Anyway..maby it is a matter of protected forums or of dividing.. which would be a pity in many ways.
When i say there is inequality in regards to what fat people can express and what fetishists can, its not because i mean fetishists should have less room to express themselves, its that i think fat people should be allowed to express themselves in more ways, in ways that are relivant to their lives.
I understand that some fat people may not want to discuss certain issues that other fat people want to talk about -I guess this means that they don't read those parts like many people already do with the more fetishistic parts they might not like at the moment.

[LoveBHMS]

Loves, you have arthritis right (or some health issue with your hips)? If you were to see someone posting how something that caused you a great deal of pain or embarassment got them off, how would you feel?

I get that there's a fat sexuality board, I get that its for the fetishists, but can't you see how that would cause someone distress?

The more that we talk about this issue (over and over and over) the more it really begins to feel as though the two parties really can't exist in the same place...

I have bursitis. I don't know that there are, but if there did exist "joint disease" fetishists, I guess I'd have to draw the distinction between people having a sexual orientation they can't control, and my personal health issue. If they talked about that fetish on a webmd message board devoted to chronic joint conditions, I'd be angry. But if they talked about it on a message board geared towards people with joint disease fetishes, I like to think i'd 1) not go to that board and barring that 2) realize that i was on a board devoted to a sexual fetish, not joint health and not a bursitis support group and not a board run by a doctor or holistic healer to talk about exercise and diet options to ease joint pain.

[KHayes666]

Get it right mate, I said I could not conceive of anybody liking being called a fat tub O 'lard. I am speaking from a woman's point of view.

I did not talk about fetishes per se.

Round and round the mulberry bush.

I agree you weren't talking about all fetishes per se, but the statement you made sounded very "high horseish" if that's even a word. Things happen in life that make you scratch your head but make perfect sense to others. Just have to learn to ACCEPT it, which is the point I'm making.

If we're going around the mulberry bush does that make me the monkey and you the weasel, or me the weasel and you the monkey? Hmmmm....also I think I just got an idea for a new thread "Would you rather be the monkey or the weasel?"

[Shosh]

I agree you weren't talking about all fetishes per se, but the statement you made sounded very "high horseish" if that's even a word. Things happen in life that make you scratch your head but make perfect sense to others. Just have to learn to ACCEPT it, which is the point I'm making.

If we're going around the mulberry bush does that make me the monkey and you the weasel, or me the weasel and you the monkey? Hmmmm....also I think I just got an idea for a new thread "Would you rather be the monkey or the weasel?"

You know what Kevin, I am going to wait to see what Randi says about it all.

You maybe should lobby for your own private board. That way we evil killjoys can just vanish.:rolleyes:

[LoveBHMS]

Get it right mate, I said I could not conceive of anybody liking being called a fat tub O 'lard. I am speaking from a woman's point of view.

I did not talk about fetishes per se.

Round and round the mulberry bush.

I neglected to put you on ignore as promised, so I saw this. You did not speak from a woman's point of view, you spoke from your point of a view. Another woman had differed from you.

So, say a post is judgmental. So what? Aren't people's ideas strong enough to stand up to a single judgmental post? Why be so threatened by someone disagreeing?

A sexuality is not an idea. An expression of what turns you on is not an opinion. That's at least the second time you've said we should just be strong enough to stand up to bullying, and i'm saying the bullying has no place here. We're not threatened by it, we're annoyed by the disrespect it shows. You've also twice ridiculed Carl for starting this thread....why? It seems to me your whole purpose at Dims, at least recently is to poke fun at others and their getting what they may need from this site.

[KHayes666]

You know what Kevin, I am going to wait to see what Randi says about it all.

You maybe should lobby for your own private board. That way we evil killjoys can just vanish.:rolleyes:

lol again....there's a difference in saying "This isn't my thing, but its not my place to judge" and "You people are sick for liking that". One can contribute to a thread even if its antagonistic while the other is a flat out personal attack.

No, I'm not saying you personally said "you people are sick" but its negative crap like that which brings the threads down. Personal attacks are against the rules, I didn't write the rules so I agree to wait and see what Randi says.

[Shosh]

I neglected to put you on ignore as promised, so I saw this. You did not speak from a woman's point of view, you spoke from your point of a view. Another woman had differed from you.



A sexuality is not an idea. An expression of what turns you on is not an opinion. That's at least the second time you've said we should just be strong enough to stand up to bullying, and i'm saying the bullying has no place here. We're not threatened by it, we're annoyed by the disrespect it shows. You've also twice ridiculed Carl for starting this thread....why? It seems to me your whole purpose at Dims, at least recently is to poke fun at others and their getting what they may need from this site.

And here I thought I was on ignore.;)

I have actually been away recently and only came back this week, so I dont know what you are talking about to be honest.

I also often give others much support and positivity here. You would know that if you ever ventured outside the weight board.

Get your own Freemason like secret society if that is what you so desire.:rolleyes:

[Santaclear]

the bullying

personal attack

Yes, the bullying, the attacks. When will it end?

[The Fez]

Jesus christ people, just shut up for once.

edit: oh god now you've got me doing it. THE HATE. ARGH.

[Shosh]

Jesus christ people, just shut up for once.

edit: oh god now you've got me doing it. THE HATE. ARGH.

Ok since you asked so nicely.:D

[Santaclear]

Carl asked for 11 pages.

[The Fez]

maybe we should change the topic of hate, perhaps

Santaclear your shoes are horrible

[KHayes666]

Yes, the bullying, the attacks. When will it end?

It could end very shortly once the new rules are in place, we shall see

[Fascinita]

Jesus christ people, just shut up for once.

edit: oh god now you've got me doing it. THE HATE. ARGH.


You know, Fez. I think it was Foucault who said, about sexuality, that...

"It should not be conceived of as a distinction founded in nature that power attempts to subdue, or as a dark domain that knowledge attempts to gradually uncover. It is the name that can be given to a historical measure..."

Hmmm. A "measure." As in, an idea.

Perhaps, like sexuality, the idea of bullying at Dimensions will also soon be understood as a "historical measure." :eat2: :eat1:

[Fascinita]

Yes, the bullying, the attacks. When will it end?

Never! Nev-er!

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc210/rankinpaulh/Three_Stooges.jpg

[Shosh]

maybe we should change the topic of hate, perhaps

Santaclear your shoes are horrible

I love shoes, especially heels even though I cannot wear them anymore.:)

Yay Manolos! This particular shoe is the cutest.

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[LoveBHMS]

Carl asked for 11 pages.

Yeah see this is precisely my point. You don't like this thread or you think it's stupid or pointless. Why not just say "Wow...Carl sure did start a stupid pointless thread. I think I'll go and read the Lounge to see if anyone's talking about any good books they're read or see if there are any hot new SSBBW pics on the paysite board."

Instead you've stayed around and just randomly poked fun at him and made fun of Kevin and me for not liking attacks on Weight Board posters. And of course thrown in the "It's too bad you're not strong enough to withstand being harassed" comment you've used before.

[Santaclear]

Fascinita, don't let those knuckleheads make a mockery of this thread.

[Santaclear]

Instead you've stayed around and just randomly poked fun at him and made fun of Kevin and me for not liking attacks on Weight Board posters. And of course thrown in the "It's too bad you're not strong enough to withstand being harassed" comment you've used before.

It's still a shame, yes.

[KHayes666]

Yeah see this is precisely my point. You don't like this thread or you think it's stupid or pointless. Why not just say "Wow...Carl sure did start a stupid pointless thread. I think I'll go and read the Lounge to see if anyone's talking about any good books they're read or see if there are any hot new SSBBW pics on the paysite board."

Instead you've stayed around and just randomly poked fun at him and made fun of Kevin and me for not liking attacks on Weight Board posters. And of course thrown in the "It's too bad you're not strong enough to withstand being harassed" comment you've used before.

I have to disagree there, he didn't make fun of me. He gave his opinion without attacking me, at least that's how I see it. If I felt he made fun of me I would have said something much nastier than what I did, I didn't feel like I've been attacked.

I'm more than capable of handling myself, I feel he's not talking about you and I....no, he's talking about the types that post a question, get ramrodded and then disappear from a thread after saying they were "bullied"

[Fascinita]

I love shoes, especially heels

Niiice!

I like these, by Natalie Portman Shoes. :smitten:

http://fashiontribes.typepad.com/fashion/images/2008/11/12/vegan_shoes_natalie_portman_te_ca_2.jpg

[Shosh]

Niiice!

I like these, by Natalie Portman Shoes. :smitten:

http://fashiontribes.typepad.com/fashion/images/2008/11/12/vegan_shoes_natalie_portman_te_ca_2.jpg

Cute!

I like these shoes. They are darling. Christian L !

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[LoveBHMS]

I have to disagree there, he didn't make fun of me. He gave his opinion without attacking me, at least that's how I see it. If I felt he made fun of me I would have said something much nastier than what I did, I didn't feel like I've been attacked.

I'm more than capable of handling myself, I feel he's not talking about you and I....no, he's talking about the types that post a question, get ramrodded and then disappear from a thread after saying they were "bullied"

I did not mean you and me specifically, I worded it wrong. I should have said i was referencing his repeated jabs at those who are annoyed with the disrespect shown towards certain posts and certain expressions of sexuality.

[KHayes666]

ooooh, i can play too.

http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/34395.jpg

Can't go wrong with these babies on your first date...especially if you got a polka dotted tie, aviator shades and a Canadian mountie hat to go with it.

[LoveBHMS]

It's still a shame, yes.

I'll remember that next time I see you or one of your friends post about something important to them. That whatever ideas you have are now known to be strong enough to stand up to any disagreement and anyone should feel free to let you know it.

[Fascinita]

Just a picture of Natalie Portman and her cute little dog.

If there's one thing everyone here can agree on ( I hope!), it's that dogs are adorable.

http://cdn.buzznet.com/media/jj1//2009/02/portman-dog/natalie-portman-dog-lax-01.jpg

[Shosh]

Dogs are adoreable. Here is my Cindy licking a lemonade icy pole today.:D
Summer has come early here this year.

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[Fascinita]

Dogs are adoreable. Here is my Cindy licking a lemonade icy pole today.:D
Summer has come early here this year.


Too cute!

Can I have a lemon icy pop, too? :D

[Santaclear]

Nice dogs, ladies. And nice shoes, everyone.

[KHayes666]

Just a picture of Natalie Portman and her cute little dog.

If there's one thing everyone here can agree on ( I hope!), it's that dogs are adorable.

On the contrary...I hate dogs. I find them to be worthless, imputable mutts. I'm a cat person, I find them cuter and easier to deal with.

Normally I'd bite my tongue and let the dog lovers alone, but Santa says its all fair game to be antagonistic so lets make it fair game then :-)

[Shosh]

Too cute!

Can I have a lemon icy pop, too? :D

Sorry I only have raspberry icy poles left. Some people are so picky.:rolleyes::D:p

[Fascinita]

I'm a cat person

I'm a cat person who's found her inner dog person as of the last six years or so--I dogsat a sweet white German Shepherd and he won me over--though I remain firmly a cat person first. :bow:

No arguments there. :D

[mergirl]

On the contrary...I hate dogs. I find them to be worthless, imputable mutts. I'm a cat person, I find them cuter and easier to deal with.

Normally I'd bite my tongue and let the dog lovers alone, but Santa says its all fair game to be antagonistic so lets make it fair game then :-)
I can't BELIEVE you are not a dog person Kevin.. from now on i'm not sure i can take your oppinions seriously!!! :(

[Santaclear]

Read any good bully posts lately?

[Shosh]

Mate dogs all the way! I am not a cat person. Sorry Fasc.:blush::D

[mergirl]

I'm a cat person who's found her inner dog person as of the last six years or so--I dogsat a sweet white German Shepherd and he won me over--though I remain firmly a cat person first. :bow:

No arguments there. :D
I am bi-catual.

[Fascinita]

Sorry I only have raspberry icy poles left. Some people are so picky.:rolleyes::D:p

Oh, Susannah. That reminds me that today I bought some raspberry-apricot panna cotta at Trader Joe's. Haven't tried 'em yet, but am raring to go. :eat2: :p

[Shosh]

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Beach Baby, Beach Baby there on the sand, from July til the end of September.:D

[KHayes666]

I can't BELIEVE you are not a dog person Kevin.. from now on i'm not sure i can take your oppinions seriously!!! :(

and I can't BELIEVE people would like dogs. I can't see ANYONE who could like them when cats are so much better!

Gee....what I said sounds familiar, I swear some people rub off on me ;-)

[Santaclear]

That dog is so hot! :smitten:

[BothGunsBlazing]

I don't mind the dissenting opinions on the weight board. Obviously no one has to explain or justify themselves if they don't want to, but honestly, I don't mind explaining my position and if I can help even one person come to some understanding as to what I'm all about when it comes to the weight board, I'm down with it.

As some one who is 100% into the feederism/feedism stuff, I don't feel any sort of kinship with a lot of the people who choose to express their sexuality by typing like they've got their hand permenantly attached to their dick and I'm in no way interested in defending their right to do it. It's embarrassing to feel an association with these types and yeah, I can see how some people feel the snark is driving well meaning people away from being open about their sexuality .. but from having discussions with enough people in my time here, it's also how crass and idiotic some people can be about their sexuality and how some people are afraid to come forward out of fear of being labeled ONE OF THEM.

EDIT!!!

Am I too late for this post? Are we currently in "we had a fight so lets make up by posting pictures of cute animals/shoes" mode?

THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO ME!

[KHayes666]

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v129/84/33/1232911027/n1232911027_30341174_2778.jpg

Smittens B Kittens at your service

[Shosh]

Oh, Susannah. That reminds me that today I bought some raspberry-apricot panna cotta at Trader Joe's. Haven't tried 'em yet, but am raring to go. :eat2: :p

Trader Joe's? I am not familiar with this particular institution.:bow:

[mergirl]

and I can't BELIEVE people would like dogs. I can't see ANYONE who could like them when cats are so much better!

Gee....what I said sounds familiar, I swear some people rub off on me ;-)
Apples and oranges Kevin... Apples and oranges.
I love both fro different reasons and just cause i like one doesn't mean i have to dislike the other. Cept i hate both apples and oranges because i was given an apple or an orange every day from the age of 4 till 12 in my packed lunch at school.. so now i only eat lychees and the like. I guess what i'm trying to say is... have you ever tried Giant African Spur Thigh Tortoise?

[KHayes666]

Apples and oranges Kevin... Apples and oranges.
I love both fro different reasons and just cause i like one doesn't mean i have to dislike the other. Cept i hate both apples and oranges because i was given an apple or an orange every day from the age of 4 till 12 in my packed lunch at school.. so now i only eat lychees and the like. I guess what i'm trying to say is... have you ever tried Giant African Spur Thigh Tortoise?

Def apples and oranges, but the same idea.

I don't like dogs so I avoid the dog threads, meanwhile people don't like fetishes and certain posters who have fetishes yet they can't avoid making a sarcastic comment or causing trouble. I'm just giving a taste of what it feels like

By me saying cats are better, its throwing a wrench into the dog loving...while its not the same as human sexuality of course, its still annoying for dog lovers to have to hear from someone cats are better. Same as its annoying for people with fetishes to hear garbage like "i can't think of anyone who'd like this"

[Fascinita]

Trader Joe's? I am not familiar with this particular institution.:bow:

It's a kind of nautical/pirate themed grocery store with super cheapo prices on yummy, unusual stuff, with some organic/natural stuff thrown in. When the person at the cash register needs a price check, they ring this big brass bell that can be heard all over the store, instead of calling over the PA.

Turns into a zoo on weekends...

http://buttercuppunch.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/traders.jpg

There's a Trader Joe's thread on the Foodie Board somewhere.

Also, here is one of my kitties.

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[KHayes666]

Also, here is one of my kitties.

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awwwwwwww lookit da little furrrrballl....:-) so cute

[Shosh]

Well it is after 1am Thursday morning here, so it is bedtime for me. Talk amongst yourselves while I am gone.:D

xo

[KHayes666]

Well it is after 1am Thursday morning here, so it is bedtime for me. Talk amongst yourselves while I am gone.:D

xo

*closes the door behinds her and locks it, tossing the key to LoveBHMS*

Taking care of business every day
Taking care of business every way
I've been taking care of business, it's all mine
Taking care of business and working overtime
Work out!

EVERYBODY NOW....join in

*puts on a BTO shirt and points to this pic*
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/3/l_2006412eac2cdfb7efd8b8da9a7f992a.jpg

[mergirl]

I don't mind the dissenting opinions on the weight board. Obviously no one has to explain or justify themselves if they don't want to, but honestly, I don't mind explaining my position and if I can help even one person come to some understanding as to what I'm all about when it comes to the weight board, I'm down with it.

As some one who is 100% into the feederism/feedism stuff, I don't feel any sort of kinship with a lot of the people who choose to express their sexuality by typing like they've got their hand permenantly attached to their dick and I'm in no way interested in defending their right to do it. It's embarrassing to feel an association with these types and yeah, I can see how some people feel the snark is driving well meaning people away from being open about their sexuality .. but from having discussions with enough people in my time here, it's also how crass and idiotic some people can be about their sexuality and how some people are afraid to come forward out of fear of being labeled ONE OF THEM.

EDIT!!!

Am I too late for this post? Are we currently in "we had a fight so lets make up by posting pictures of cute animals/shoes" mode?

THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO ME!
I think you are so right. I was discussing this with someone the other day about feeders that are respected and had interesting things to say and contribute in more ways than just, like you say a 'cock in hand way'. Your name came up, Tad, Dr P and a few others. Basically it would be a total loss if you guys didn't post. I think the posts from people who say the outlandish 'cock in hand stuff' without any frame of reference actually do more harm to feeders/other fetishists who are interested in exploring their sexuality/engaging in debate as they do to fat people who get offended. I think though, what we witness is kneejerk reactions to many of these types of posts because they do seem so outlandish, because the people who tend to post them don't have any identity here and so their described fetish lacks context and so becomes impossible to take seriously.

[mergirl]

Def apples and oranges, but the same idea.

I don't like dogs so I avoid the dog threads, meanwhile people don't like fetishes and certain posters who have fetishes yet they can't avoid making a sarcastic comment or causing trouble. I'm just giving a taste of what it feels like

By me saying cats are better, its throwing a wrench into the dog loving...while its not the same as human sexuality of course, its still annoying for dog lovers to have to hear from someone cats are better. Same as its annoying for people with fetishes to hear garbage like "i can't think of anyone who'd like this"
I dont mind if people hate dogs. I was frightened of cats since my friend told me a story about her cat going under the covers when she was sleeping and biting her va jay jay!! Then i found a cat and i love him but don't let him sleep under the covers. As for dogs the worst my dog has is licked my arse when i was bending down to put my socks on.. Frankly i was disgusted, afronted, didn't look my dog in the eye for a while and now i put my pants on before my socks.. you see what i'm getting at?

[Ernest Nagel]

"It is good to rub and polish our brain against that of others."

"Nothing is so firmly believed as what we least know."

"There is no conversation more boring than the one where everybody agrees." ~ Michel de Montaigne

All to the point of saying there are worse things than threads like this. Montaigne also said something to the effect that "we learn the most about ourselves from those we disagree with" but I couldn't find it in my dog-eared and over-highlighted copy of his essays. Thanksgiving's just around the corner and it occurs to me we might all take a moment and count arguments and staunch opponents among our blessings? Not much ever evolves in a placid and benign environment. Just sayin'. :happy:

[Tad]

To the OP: I don't. In the day since I last checked in on this thread, there have been a hundred new responses, don't have the time or mental energy to wade through all of that :(

[Santaclear]

"It is good to rub and polish our brain against that of others."
"Nothing is so firmly believed as what we least know."
"There is no conversation more boring than the one where everybody agrees." ~ Michel de Montaigne
All to the point of saying there are worse things than threads like this. Montaigne also said something to the effect that "we learn the most about ourselves from those we disagree with" but I couldn't find it in my dog-eared and over-highlighted copy of his essays. Thanksgiving's just around the corner and it occurs to me we might all take a moment and count arguments and staunch opponents among our blessings? Not much ever evolves in a placid and benign environment. Just sayin'. :happy:

All very good points, Ernest.

I don't mind the dissenting opinions on the weight board. Obviously no one has to explain or justify themselves if they don't want to, but honestly, I don't mind explaining my position and if I can help even one person come to some understanding as to what I'm all about when it comes to the weight board, I'm down with it.
As some one who is 100% into the feederism/feedism stuff, I don't feel any sort of kinship with a lot of the people who choose to express their sexuality by typing like they've got their hand permenantly attached to their dick and I'm in no way interested in defending their right to do it. It's embarrassing to feel an association with these types and yeah, I can see how some people feel the snark is driving well meaning people away from being open about their sexuality .. but from having discussions with enough people in my time here, it's also how crass and idiotic some people can be about their sexuality and how some people are afraid to come forward out of fear of being labeled ONE OF THEM.

EDIT!!!
Am I too late for this post? Are we currently in "we had a fight so lets make up by posting pictures of cute animals/shoes" mode?
THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO ME!

It's never too late for a fine post like this.

[Santaclear]

By the way, I'd like to wish everyone including Loves a very happy and safe holiday season this year.

Remember people, don't drive drunk or tripping.

[Dr. P Marshall]

I think you are so right. I was discussing this with someone the other day about feeders that are respected and had interesting things to say and contribute in more ways than just, like you say a 'cock in hand way'. Your name came up, Tad, Dr P and a few others. Basically it would be a total loss if you guys didn't post. I think the posts from people who say the outlandish 'cock in hand stuff' without any frame of reference actually do more harm to feeders/other fetishists who are interested in exploring their sexuality/engaging in debate as they do to fat people who get offended. I think though, what we witness is kneejerk reactions to many of these types of posts because they do seem so outlandish, because the people who tend to post them don't have any identity here and so their described fetish lacks context and so becomes impossible to take seriously.

And the knee jerk reactions are understandable. But here's what I know, I usually stop posting and vow never to come back here to myself after EVERY ONE of those dustups. Because it always ends up offensive and I do get the sense that people just don't want us here in general and when that is the case, I honestly start to feel that it is not worth my time if I'm going to have to shrug off a bunch of things that insult me in order to feel a part of the community. I feel much like khayes that if someone says "not my thing, but carry on..." that's one thing, but yes, I find the "how can anyone even like that" or "that's sick" especially when posted on the Weight Board to be very offensive. I also feel that expressing honest feelings about it when asked, for example when Loves made her poll and thread, that is one issue. I wouldn't even care if everyone started a thread about why they personally didn't like feederism or fetishism on the BBW board, or any board that was not the Weight Board. When people make those points and make them snarkily in the threads in a protected area, yes, it does seem as if people as a group are being hounded. i won't say attacked, but hounded. When the same four or five posters show up all the time.......there does start to seem to be the feeling that there will be no way that the weight board will be left in peace. I don't think there's a gang per se, I just think that there are a collection of people who get offended by the same things and can't leave the weight board alone. I don't expect anyone to understand or like it, but I would hope that they could respect my right to post in a place where that type of talk IS ALLOWED. Now, the minute anyone takes that kind of talk off that board....it's open season and they SHOULD be put in their place, but not if they're posting in the appropriate forum.

Although this thread has degenerated and I don't know why we're bothering trying to have a serious discussion anymore.:doh:

[Ruffie]

"Although this thread has degenerated and I don't know why we're bothering trying to have a serious discussion anymore."

Because by doing so we can show those of like mind that people exist one these boards who aren't all about attacking others ans stirring the pot?

[mergirl]

And the knee jerk reactions are understandable. But here's what I know, I usually stop posting and vow never to come back here to myself after EVERY ONE of those dustups. Because it always ends up offensive and I do get the sense that people just don't want us here in general and when that is the case, I honestly start to feel that it is not worth my time if I'm going to have to shrug off a bunch of things that insult me in order to feel a part of the community. I feel much like khayes that if someone says "not my thing, but carry on..." that's one thing, but yes, I find the "how can anyone even like that" or "that's sick" especially when posted on the Weight Board to be very offensive. I also feel that expressing honest feelings about it when asked, for example when Loves made her poll and thread, that is one issue. I wouldn't even care if everyone started a thread about why they personally didn't like feederism or fetishism on the BBW board, or any board that was not the Weight Board. When people make those points and make them snarkily in the threads in a protected area, yes, it does seem as if people as a group are being hounded. i won't say attacked, but hounded. When the same four or five posters show up all the time.......there does start to seem to be the feeling that there will be no way that the weight board will be left in peace. I don't think there's a gang per se, I just think that there are a collection of people who get offended by the same things and can't leave the weight board alone. I don't expect anyone to understand or like it, but I would hope that they could respect my right to post in a place where that type of talk IS ALLOWED. Now, the minute anyone takes that kind of talk off that board....it's open season and they SHOULD be put in their place, but not if they're posting in the appropriate forum.

Although this thread has degenerated and I don't know why we're bothering trying to have a serious discussion anymore.:doh:
I understand why it must feel so frustrating for you not to mention hurtful to be made to feel your sexuality is not valid. I dont post on the weight board often.. is there not a protected sub-forum? Like one for general fat sexuality and then one for stuff like erotic weight gain-Isn't that one protected?
Ok though.. its kinna like when we totally took the piss out of the guy who wanted to be dressed as a worm and be eaten by someone dressed as a bird. We couldn't help but find that funny. Maby that guy has been looking for understanding for a while and he is met with us really taking the piss and i imagine he did a quick exit with his tail between his legs (worm bottom).
I think to some people, they just genuinly dont understand certain aspects about weight gain/ feeder stuff that they find it laughable and take the piss. Sometimes people find it offensive and speak out. I do think though, the kneejerk hurtful reaction is when the fetish lacks human context though. ie They dont know anything else about the person who has these desires. Maby.. i don't know..
I have a lot of thoughts on this but i think its better bite sized for now..
I think sometimes the most interesting debates seem to happen when it seems a thread has degenerated..

[mergirl]

"Although this thread has degenerated and I don't know why we're bothering trying to have a serious discussion anymore."

Because by doing so we can show those of like mind that people exist one these boards who aren't all about attacking others ans stirring the pot?
When you said 'stirring the pot'.. actually when anyone says that in my head they say it in a caribbean accent... I think its because when i used to go to my caribbean friends house his mum would be cooking and would say "stirrin de pot" and laugh and do a sexy dance!! .. She was my first Milf!!:wubu:

[joswitch]

*snip*

To paraphrase myself: I like you joswitch, but are you high? (:psee my first post in this thread where I asked that of mergirl too. I am just being fair.)

Here is the thing, joswitch, I have been thinking a lot about this thread and then I came on and read everything you wrote. I understand your arguments, I understand what the official rules are and I understand the principles of size acceptance....BUT I am a female FA who is thin. On the BHM/FFA board is a thread called "OK for him, but not for me" where thin female FAs talk about staying thin/not wanting to be fat. There is a thread on the FA/FFA board called "FAs and your own weight" I think you may have even participated in that one.

I'm not often on the BHM/FFA board so I missed that thread... And re. the other one - I don't remember, I might've ducked in there to post, but not read it first?

I did start this one:
"FAs/FFAs have you ever changed your body for someone you desired?"
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61561
from my OP:
"......I deliberately gained a couple of pounds of fat, cos a lovely girl I was verrry into (and later had a relationship with) had expressed a turn-off re. the veiny forearms, which I, like a lot of blokes who workout and/or do physical work, had..."

Some other posters talked about how they had altered their bodies - Bigmac (BHM and an FA) talked (in a sense of what a pain in the ass it was) about how he'd struggled to keep his weight down specifically to please his exes... Not a diet-talk thread, but....



Depending on the poster, that occasionally ALSO had fat admirers of both genders discussing keeping their weight down. So while I can see the arguments against diet talk because it makes fat people feel pressured, I do have some trouble understanding why I could (I did not participate in the threads by the way) go onto one of those threads and say that I workout/eat a certain way to stay a certain size, yet a BBW or BHM can't do the same. I mean I am a woman on the boards and many FFAs participated in those threads and no one complained that it was anti-size acceptance. No one complained that it made anyone feel pressured to be thin. So if that can work, why can't the occasional thread or the occasional post by a BBW or BHM also be allowed?

I know I am probably causing way more trouble than I intend to by asking this. I just honestly am confused about that issue. I had forgotten about those threads until earlier today and then it did seem strange to me. There was also a thread once called "why do you think you are thin?" and again, some of the answers did involve the very issues that aren't supposed to be discussed, because some of the answers made it clear that some work to stay or be thin or worked in the past to become thin. I can understand not wanting this place to turn into a weight loss mecca, but no one thought that those fat admirers answering honestly was going to throw everything off course, so why would a thread about fat people wanting to lose weight but still be fat derail everything?


I think that's a very good point. Can't have it both ways. I can see why, BBWs/BHMs are wicked pissed - if as you say FAs/FFAs get to diet-talk and they don't. I've not gone to look at the threads in question so I'm just taking your word for it. It should definitely be one rule for all.

If we do /must end up with "DIMS - the weight loss board" *shudders* :( I agree with Miss Vickie's proposal that it all be kept on one sub-board only. If only to make it managable in terms of the mods stamping on the legions of diet/pill/WLS schills who'll show up like vultures to the feast, to push their shiz in an effort to make the big $$$.

If capitalism shows us anything it shows that suffering = $$$ for someone. And if we're to take the word of numerous posters, especially COFers, on DIMS lately, fat = suffering...:(:(:( So once the gates are opened - look out! :eek:

[joswitch]

Hey, jos.

When a woman loses weight, does all the sexiness melt away?

lololol

Ouch! Harrrrrrsh! Et tu Brutus?! :(

[joswitch]

"Although this thread has degenerated and I don't know why we're bothering trying to have a serious discussion anymore."

Because by doing so we can show those of like mind that people exist one these boards who aren't all about attacking others ans stirring the pot?

I *hug* you.:)

[joswitch]

I dont mind if people hate dogs. I was frightened of cats since my friend told me a story about her cat going under the covers when she was sleeping and biting her va jay jay!! Then i found a cat and i love him but don't let him sleep under the covers. As for dogs the worst my dog has is licked my arse when i was bending down to put my socks on.. Frankly i was disgusted, afronted, didn't look my dog in the eye for a while and now i put my pants on before my socks.. you see what i'm getting at?

Ahahahahahaah! You rule Mer! :D:D:D

[tonynyc]

I can't BELIEVE you are not a dog person Kevin.. from now on i'm not sure i can take your oppinions seriously!!! :(

Who knew??? - just goes to show that Dims can be full of surprizes...

Do you think sometimes since fat people are labeled "fat and jolly" and often times we are not allowed by society to express our frustration or anger with society, that we feel free to express it here???

I honestly feel if some people sat across from another person and actively said what they said here, maybe the response they got, in real time, would prevent them from spouting some of their shit ever again.


Dianna: Wouldn't that be something... I don't think folks would spout such things in person

Carl asked for 11 pages.

Santa are you Clairvoyant? "11" pages... What other predictions do yo uhave... And you forgot to dole out the Pastrami Sandwiches while wishing us all good cheer. :D

Has anyone seen the OP- I think it would take a whole heap of energy to go through all of these pages...

[mergirl]

Who knew??? - just goes to show that Dims can be full of surprizes...


[/COLOR][/I]

I KNOW Tony!! its ..its.. like a fake snake coming out of a tin of sweets wrapped around a surprise party ..with some guests you hate and you had to fein surprise.. and you drink and puke.. but then meet your soul mate.. but them it turns out it was all a dream..and then you wake up and someone has put a whoopie cushion under your pillow and shat on your head... is what its like..

[Dr. P Marshall]

I think that's a very good point. Can't have it both ways. I can see why, BBWs/BHMs are wicked pissed - if as you say FAs/FFAs get to diet-talk and they don't. I've not gone to look at the threads in question so I'm just taking your word for it. It should definitely be one rule for all.


I don't know if anyone is reading this anymore, but I do believe we will get our 11 pages. ;)

I think that there is a big difference between a bunch of threads about fat hating and fad diets, versus a space where fat people can discuss/get support for the times when they need/want to lose weight for various reasons. I did not get the impression that people want to be able to trade diet tips or talk about how to become a size 2. I always felt that the idea was that there are people here who are fat and will remain fat but who do need to lose weight in order to live longer and healthier lives. There are also other threads that address what people eat and dietary changes, such as threads about eating healthier or issues raised on the diabetic support thread. None of those threads have turned into people giving each other tips on fad diets or anything of the kind. But for a fat person who finds themselves needing to lose some weight in order to keep their mobility, or their health, the people on Dims would be vastly more understanding of the situation that they find themselves in. I think the problem is that there is that lurking idea that you can talk about eating healthier, but you can't say "I'm a diabetic and my doctor said if I don't lose 50 pounds, I may lose my eyesight. And I'm having trouble sticking to the plan. I could really use some support." (Or some similar type of post). Out in the rest of cyberspace that person is going to be told that 50 pounds is not enough, they should shoot for the entire 200 or whatever the weight may be. And yes, in some threads fat admirers have even talked about the fact that they had eating disorders, that they struggle with their own body images and many other topics and no one thinks that they are cheerleading weight loss for all. I think most people think that they are either answering honest questions honestly, or that they are sharing part of their own struggles. I have also seen male fat admirers discuss their desire to get their body fat way down because they are body builders or athletes or other things. Again, in the proper context, no one thinks that these things are odd or out of place. Yet, for some reason there is no proper context for a fat person who needs to lose some weight. I think that does make it seem like the fat people are being more closely watched, or that they are being held to a different standard.

And honestly, from the fat admirer side, it also defeats what we seek. After all, the rest of the world is pushing for people to be thin. Many fat admirers say that they want fat people to be confident and happy in their own skin. Well, knowing that this is one of the few places where that idea is supported, shouldn't we be in favor of supporting them in all the various stages of being and becoming self accepting? Shouldn't the environment here support what it takes to make people happy BEING FAT? Not a certain size of fat, but fat? It just seems logical to me. HAES is an important principle, but not every person will be equally healthy or happy at absolutely any size. At Dims a person could be encouraged to find a healthy size that is still fat, whereas in the rest of the world, they are likely to be told the only way to be healthy is to be thin.

I am not holding you personally responsible for all of this joswitch, I am just using our dialogue as a jumping off point. It's kind of like I felt about how people argue for the lift of the ban.....there's a point where no matter how good an argument is in principle, outrageous claims, or not factoring in reality certainly makes it start to seem that people are on ideological rampages. And in this case, the ideological rampage would be stating that no one ever needs to lose any weight or make any changes to preserve their health and longevity. That's just crazy. At the very least, every sane person can admit that a diabetic is going to have to stop eating sugar. See what I mean?

Now, I'm just going to make a couple more points and create another ridiculously long Dr. P post and then stop. I know, you will all be thankful. The first thing is that I was not chastising mergirl in my first post as her adversary.....rather as her ally. I think everyone knows this is the trickiest and most difficult issue here and I think the harder the issue, the more airtight the case needs to be. I thought she was shooting herself in the foot by making a claim that wasn't entirely true. This wasn't because she needed to win ME over, I was already on her side. I was trying to point out that what you say can be used back at you, so if you're fighting the fight, be careful of what you say and how you say it. And I DO believe strongly in this particular fight. And here is why:

Fatgirlflyin said at one point that she thought maybe we just can't coexist. There have been times that I have agreed with that sentiment. BUT ....last night after all of this, I checked my personal email and there was a personal message from a very dear friend of mine who is a BBW that I met on this board. I have been away due to a death in my family. At that time, I sent messages to many people here that I am close to. The list included BBW and BHM, fat admirers and fetishists, male and female. To a person, they all offered nothing but love, support and kindness to me. Had the boards been split, I would have never met many of them. And that would have been a huge loss to me personally. Many friendships and even romances and marriages across lines have been made here at Dims. I think most of us would have lost out on at least one person who matters to us here if we had been divided. And this ban on speech bothers me because I don't like the idea that fat people here who I care about feel that they cannot get the full support that they need for their experiences as fat people here at this site. I would ask all fat admirers who care about even one fat person here to actually think about that. I know no one wants diet talk, but I don't think that's what people actually want, at least not in the conventional way. They simply want it acknowledged that they have the right to discuss all of the issues that matter to them as fat people, even if it is a topic that fat admirers may not all enjoy hearing about. But if we want them to ignore things that they don't like, why can't we do the same? If there was a health board thread or sub forum and that was where things were kept, how is that different than the EWG section of the weight board in terms of showing respect and leaving things alone. If both sides would agree to accept and allow a wide berth on those issues, then maybe things would settle down a little. We could all put our money where our mouth is and have the experience here that we want, without infringing on anyone else's experience. IT's just a thought. I am probably being way too hopeful again.

But I still think everyone needs to be careful. When things get very ugly around here, some people leave because they feel that there is nothing but fighting, some people leave because they get offended. When fetishist gets hurled as an insult, I'm likely to log off for a while, natasfan, on the other hand will still blissfully be going strong and have a 1 million posts by Christmas. :p Just something to think about. Getting diverted into personal grudge matches doesn't do anyone any good. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, of course, but what gets put on the boards can really impact how things play out.

I will now shut up.:bow:

[tonynyc]

I KNOW Tony!! its ..its.. like a fake snake coming out of a tin of sweets wrapped around a surprise party ..with some guests you hate and you had to fein surprise.. and you drink and puke.. but then meet your soul mate.. but them it turns out it was all a dream..and then you wake up and someone has put a whoopie cushion under your pillow and shat on your head... is what its like..

MerGirl:
Fake Snakes coming out a tin of sweets. :eek: Heck... it the food equivalent of this :mad:

http://graphic-design.tjs-labs.com/pictures/whiz-gh-10-01-1965-142.jpg

[mergirl]

MerGirl:
Fake Snakes coming out a tin of sweets. :eek: Heck... it the food equivalent of this :mad:

http://graphic-design.tjs-labs.com/pictures/whiz-gh-10-01-1965-142.jpg
EEEK!! I is a frighted!!!
what a foo i is.. :(
:D hehe

[tonynyc]

EEEK!! I is a frighted!!!
what a foo i is.. :(
:D hehe

Kraft may have fooled us over 40 years ago;but, not now

[Shosh]

Maybe the solution to the whole weight board thing for me, is to just post on the pic threads.

Who wants to see more of my jiggly bits then?:D

[tonynyc]

Maybe the solution to the whole weight board thing for me, is to just post on the pic threads.

Who wants to see more of my jiggly bits then?:D

Works for me :happy:

[mergirl]

Maybe the solution to the whole weight board thing for me, is to just post on the pic threads.

Who wants to see more of my jiggly bits then?:D
well, to be honest, Only if benny hill is chasing you around and around a park bench until you stop to slap a bald man on the head, only to run off again jiggling..

[Green Eyed Fairy]

well, to be honest, Only if benny hill is chasing you around and around a park bench until you stop to slap a bald man on the head, only to run off again jiggling..


I got turned on by that part about slapping a bald man in the head....:blush:



DON'T JUDGE ME!!!! :p