BI-Fat-sexual??

[mergirl]

Am i the only one here..??
I would say if i had to pick a sexuality that described me i would say 'lesbian' because i generally want to have sex with women.
-Though..there have been times i have seen a fat guy and thought .."ah mmmmm yas jubbles"
-I can look as a fat male body and think "wow..he is beautiful and his body is really interesting to me"- Actually to the point i am turned on
-when i read stories about fat guys when i was younger i would/could be just as turned on as if i were reading about a woman..

I dont know why i have never considered actually 'being' with a fat guy though.. i think there is a difference between interest in something beautiful and an everyday sexuality.

eta-can't belive tad is on holiday!! i'm counting on you now Telute!!!!!:bow:

[Paquito]

I'd identify myself as fat-sexual. That is, fat takes precedence over "traditional" sexual desires (i.e. the actual act of sex). I find fat guys as visually appealling as fat women, but in terms of attraction, I'd rather be with a woman.

[mergirl]

yeah.. whats with that?.
i was playing a gig and a big fat hairy roadie man's belly was the focus of my songs..
but i wouldn't fuck him though..
but what is with that??
focused fat lovelyness and tingling.. but not wanting to fuck..
I cant work out if i'm shallow or really deep!!
I'm UP TO HIGH DOH!!!
:)

[Paquito]

yeah.. whats with that?.
i was playing a gig and a big fat hairy roadie man's belly was the focus of my songs..
but i wouldn't fuck him though..
but what is with that??
focused fat lovelyness and tingling.. but not wanting to fuck..
I cant work out if i'm shallow or really deep!!
I'm UP TO HIGH DOH!!!
:)

Oh yea, if I see a nice belly, you've pretty much lost any chance of getting my attention for a while. Going to a beach with a bunch of big guys and girls, it's like a tennis match. :D

[Cors]

I am pretty sure you are not the only one, Mer.

I don't exactly identify as fat-sexual, but I suppose I am a queer-sexual. I am sexually attracted to women only, but I often find myself gawking at very pretty femme gay boys and it doesn't matter if they are thin or fat. However, I do think that fat men tend to look a lot softer and pass better. I can't count the number of times I have drooled at a hot fat butch, only to find out that it is actually a man! The disappointment kills my interest right away. :(

[StarWitness]

I can relate to that, although from the flip side... I'm not particularly interested in having sex with another woman, but I do find curvy women's bodies beautiful and "interesting to look at," to use your phrasing.

[Melian]

Yeah, I'm not particularly interested in actual intercourse with anyone, male or female (husband included) - the act just doesn't do a lot for me, mostly due to some peripheral nerve misconnections, but I won't go into those details.

Anyway, my current situation is that I'm only attracted to fat men and women, although they are disappointed when all I want to do is kiss and grope them.....so some faking is required for the husband, and anyone else will just have to live with the flirting :p

[mergirl]

Yeah, I'm not particularly interested in actual intercourse with anyone, male or female (husband included) - the act just doesn't do a lot for me, mostly due to some peripheral nerve misconnections, but I won't go into those details.

Anyway, my current situation is that I'm only attracted to fat men and women, although they are disappointed when all I want to do is kiss and grope them.....so some faking is required for the husband, and anyone else will just have to live with the flirting :p
I actually know a few people who could do without the act of actual sex. My friend would rather have a good spanking sesh which leaves her totally satisfied and not bothered with the actual sex act.
Flirting is always (well usually) appreciated by people so no harm in that, as for kissing and groping..well thats nice too!
Can you orgasm by kissing and groping someone fat though? Or do you just never orgasm... do you kinna brain orgasm? Ok i am being very personal.. so you don't have to answer that. ...(pssst though if you don't pm me!! ;) )

[Melian]

I actually know a few people who could do without the act of actual sex. My friend would rather have a good spanking sesh which leaves her totally satisfied and not bothered with the actual sex act.
Flirting is always (well usually) appreciated by people so no harm in that, as for kissing and groping..well thats nice too!
Can you orgasm by kissing and groping someone fat though? Or do you just never orgasm... do you kinna brain orgasm? Ok i am being very personal.. so you don't have to answer that. ...(pssst though if you don't pm me!! ;) )

Haha...not too personal.

I have never had an orgasm, nor do I have any sensations that would lead me to believe I am capable of having one.

[LillyBBBW]

omg, I love love love this thread title! :wubu: I don't know why.

I'm straight as an arrow but I've often found myself attracted to butch girls. My attraction stops below the waist though as butch girls don't have the equipment I require. Do you think conceptually that you could actually be intimate with a fat guy though mer or is it just a visceral response? Tell me it's none of my &@%! business!

ETA: Oop! Nevermind, you answered. :D Should have kept reading. I will leave the question though as evidence of my slowness.

[fatgirlflyin]

Am i the only one here..??
I would say if i had to pick a sexuality that described me i would say 'lesbian' because i generally want to have sex with women.
-Though..there have been times i have seen a fat guy and thought .."ah mmmmm yas jubbles"
-I can look as a fat male body and think "wow..he is beautiful and his body is really interesting to me"- Actually to the point i am turned on
-when i read stories about fat guys when i was younger i would/could be just as turned on as if i were reading about a woman..

I dont know why i have never considered actually 'being' with a fat guy though.. i think there is a difference between interest in something beautiful and an everyday sexuality.

eta-can't belive tad is on holiday!! i'm counting on you now Telute!!!!!:bow:


This is an interesting question. I prefer fat women, I tend to find myself more sexually attracted to them. When it comes to men I find tall, fit, athletic men to be my preference.

[mergirl]

omg, I love love love this thread title! :wubu: I don't know why.

I'm straight as an arrow but I've often found myself attracted to butch girls. My attraction stops below the waist though as butch girls don't have the equipment I require. Do you think conceptually that you could actually be intimate with a fat guy though mer or is it just a visceral response? Tell me it's none of my &@%! business!

ETA: Oop! Nevermind, you answered. :D Should have kept reading. I will leave the question though as evidence of my slowness.
No..actually, i (if i was single) would probs have sex with a fat guy.. weirdly the guys i have been with have mainly been thin though.. which i weird. I was kinna trying to convay that although i find fat guys bodies...hmm 'facinating' (makes it sound like they are a nature documentary)- i wouldn't necessaraly be sexually attracted to them in other ways. Hmm its difficult to explain. I guess kinna like the way you say you are with butch women and not having the equiptment you require.. i guess thats kinna the same with guys for me.

p.s. we have equipment that we can remove and put in our sock drawer which ALWAYS stays hard!! ;)
:D

[mergirl]

This is an interesting question. I prefer fat women, I tend to find myself more sexually attracted to them. When it comes to men I find tall, fit, athletic men to be my preference.
ahh.. see the famous guys i would say i think are hot are not fat.. maby its an in the moment thing.
Thats interesting that you like fat women and athletic men.. I was going to make a comment about that but i would have to make too many appologies to every factor of this society with my generalisations! lmao.
Do you ever find thin women attractive or do they have to be fat for you to find them attractive?

[mergirl]

ahh.. see the famous guys i would say i think are hot are not fat.. maby its an in the moment thing.
Thats interesting that you like fat women and athletic men.. I was going to make a comment about that but i would have to make too many appologies to every factor of this society with my generalisations! lmao.
Do you ever find thin women attractive or do they have to be fat for you to find them attractive?
Hmm actually.. thinking about it..i'm not sure i would (sleep with a fat guy).. maby i ...hmm oh i dont know!!??. This is going to sound rediculously soppy but i can't actually imagine having sex with anyone else but my gf, which is weird because in any other relationship ive thought about sex with other people a lot! lmao.
This is going to sound weird but i think if i was fat i would be more bi-sexual. Which might not make any sense... but it makes sense to me!! lmao
Eta- I would be bi-fat-sexual

[fatgirlflyin]

ahh.. see the famous guys i would say i think are hot are not fat.. maby its an in the moment thing.
Thats interesting that you like fat women and athletic men.. I was going to make a comment about that but i would have to make too many appologies to every factor of this society with my generalisations! lmao.
Do you ever find thin women attractive or do they have to be fat for you to find them attractive?


I find some thin women attractive but not to the point where I wanted to have sex with them, all the women I've been with have been fat.

[mergirl]

Haha...not too personal.

I have never had an orgasm, nor do I have any sensations that would lead me to believe I am capable of having one.
I remember the 1st time i had an orgasm it took me about an hour to have one.. (A teenage mag told me how to do it!!) and that was by myself!! I thought i couldnt have one..
Do you ever have mental orgasm feelings .. like feeling more and more turned on?

[mergirl]

I find some thin women attractive but not to the point where I wanted to have sex with them, all the women I've been with have been fat.
hmm.. see thats kind of like me.. i think thin women and guys are on the same par- I might think they are hot but not enough for me to have sex with... though i have in the past, but its never felt fulfilling to me somehow. I know people say this a lot but there was something missing.
Eta-Breasts about about 10 stone.

[LillyBBBW]

No..actually, i (if i was single) would probs have sex with a fat guy.. weirdly the guys i have been with have mainly been thin though.. which i weird. I was kinna trying to convay that although i find fat guys bodies...hmm 'facinating' (makes it sound like they are a nature documentary)- i wouldn't necessaraly be sexually attracted to them in other ways. Hmm its difficult to explain. I guess kinna like the way you say you are with butch women and not having the equiptment you require.. i guess thats kinna the same with guys for me.

p.s. we have equipment that we can remove and put in our sock drawer which ALWAYS stays hard!! ;)
:D

Haha, yes I've thought of that. It wouldn't work for me though. It really is a mental thing. Conceptually I could have a drag queen for a long term partner and exist happily without a single complaint. I don't know if there's a name for that. Cock whore comes to mind, I don't know. :huh:

[Cors]

TMI alert.

I actually know a few people who could do without the act of actual sex. My friend would rather have a good spanking sesh which leaves her totally satisfied and not bothered with the actual sex act.
Flirting is always (well usually) appreciated by people so no harm in that, as for kissing and groping..well thats nice too!
Can you orgasm by kissing and groping someone fat though? Or do you just never orgasm... do you kinna brain orgasm? Ok i am being very personal.. so you don't have to answer that. ...(pssst though if you don't pm me!! ;) )

Oh I remember those teenage mag articles! Bubble bath, dim lights, candles and petals on the bed, think of sandy beaches and slooowly rub yourself all over... I failed. I get so much more pleasure from wicked fantasies involving hot fat butch women while a fierce jet of hot water beating down on me works much better.

I don't get physical orgasms and don't like being touched down there at all (I am not against the idea but it just doesn't seem to work for me, plus I also have vaginismus which makes penetration too painful). I am pretty sure I get "mental orgasms" - I feed on the energy of my partner and can get very carried away, even though I am usually dry down there. It happens a lot more during an intense BDSM session than when I am just fucking someone (fist > strap-on > fingers when it comes to intensity and probability of this endorphin rush).

Haha, yes I've thought of that. It wouldn't work for me though. It really is a mental thing. Conceptually I could have a drag queen for a long term partner and exist happily without a single complaint. I don't know if there's a name for that. Cock whore comes to mind, I don't know. :huh:

LOL cock whore! Would you date a very feminine pre-op MtF with a functional tool?

I feel like the opposite, since I love very masculine stone butches and FtMs! I am very turned off by real penises, but I can tolerate it on a pre-op MtF if I like her enough, as long as she keeps it out of the way during sex.

[mergirl]

Haha, yes I've thought of that. It wouldn't work for me though. It really is a mental thing. Conceptually I could have a drag queen for a long term partner and exist happily without a single complaint. I don't know if there's a name for that. Cock whore comes to mind, I don't know. :huh:
lol 'cock whore'.. yeah.. am thinking perhaps i am a cunt whore. Its interesting, to what level is biology and to what level psychology (or some pheromonal animal attraction?).
I think it is different for different people. To me its something i can't describe; Its not about organs or how gender typed a person is (Though i am rarely if never attracted to very butch women..hmm so maby it is). Actually that might be it.. for me at least- I am attracted to feminine gendertype mainly- I wonder if i could date a very feminine crossdresser? (If you have ever seen the film 'better than chocolate i kinna thought the transexual (Think she still had a willy) was very beautiful. *Better than chocolate is a shite lesbian film.. i wouldn't recomend it though the transexual's song "I'm not a fucking drag queen is pretty good!").
I have a friend who is cock daft.. i mean seriously.. she loves them and draws them and LOVES giving blowjobs.. she just loves cock. She said she is kinna bi and likes breasts but she would need a cock to satisfy her sexually (Though she admits that generally it takes more than just the cock to actually bring her to orgasm).. I guess its the psychology of the cock.. i think i can understand this but its hard to translate somehow.
For me just knowing that someone is a woman is needed- is it spiritual? (or maby innate)
Do you think thats what its like for you with men?

I often ask guys who say they are totally straight (it generally doesnt work with women) If they were blindfolded and surrounded by about 5 really hot women and there was one guy there.. and someone was sucking your cock, would you really care that it might be the guy? Since you have the thought of the women in your head and don't know. Most of the guys i have asked this to honestly said they wouldn't care and would just enjoy the blowjob. I'm talking straight mens men! ... I think men and women are different in that respect though..

[mergirl]

TMI alert.



Oh I remember those teenage mag articles! Bubble bath, dim lights, candles and petals on the bed, think of sandy beaches and slooowly rub yourself all over... I failed. I get so much more pleasure from wicked fantasies involving hot fat butch women while a fierce jet of hot water beating down on me works much better.

I don't get physical orgasms and don't like being touched down there at all (I am not against the idea but it just doesn't seem to work for me, plus I also have vaginismus which makes penetration too painful). I am pretty sure I get "mental orgasms" - I feed on the energy of my partner and can get very carried away, even though I am usually dry down there. It happens a lot more during an intense BDSM session than when I am just fucking someone (fist > strap-on > fingers when it comes to intensity and probability of this endorphin rush).



Ahh.. i know a few doms that don't like being touched and derive all their pleasure from being dominant. I guess if you are having pleasure then i don't see whats so bad about it. I think if it was something that was making you sad or psychologically messing you up then there would be a problem but if you are satisfied i don't see why you should adhere to Marie Clare's idea of pleasure.
I can't actually remember the whole bath n bubbles thing lol.. i just remember finding out it was possible from the mag 'just 17' which i read when i was 14. i remember it took ages but after i thought "That is the coolest thing ever"..I remember asking my (close) friends at school if they did it too .. and we were all slightly embarresed but then were like "yeah its great"!! haha.. Anyway, not bath n bubbles for me.. just determination and thoughts of my chubby hot geography teacher!

[LillyBBBW]

TMI alert.



Oh I remember those teenage mag articles! Bubble bath, dim lights, candles and petals on the bed, think of sandy beaches and slooowly rub yourself all over... I failed. I get so much more pleasure from wicked fantasies involving hot fat butch women while a fierce jet of hot water beating down on me works much better.

I don't get physical orgasms and don't like being touched down there at all (I am not against the idea but it just doesn't seem to work for me, plus I also have vaginismus which makes penetration too painful). I am pretty sure I get "mental orgasms" - I feed on the energy of my partner and can get very carried away, even though I am usually dry down there. It happens a lot more during an intense BDSM session than when I am just fucking someone (fist > strap-on > fingers when it comes to intensity and probability of this endorphin rush).



LOL cock whore! Would you date a very feminine pre-op MtF with a functional tool?

I feel like the opposite, since I love very masculine stone butches and FtMs! I am very turned off by real penises, but I can tolerate it on a pre-op MtF if I like her enough, as long as she keeps it out of the way during sex.

Well a lot would depend on personality and all that but yes, I think I would be happy with a pre-op MtF. After the operation would be a problem though, I'm beig honest. I don't think I could or would be happy with a strap on or a dildo. I don't even use them myself and I think if I were blindfolded I would know the difference right away. A pre-op MtF would be perfect for me but I wouldn't want to dissuade someone from being completely happy with themselvs for my sake. A post-op FtM? I don't know. I'm too ignorant at this point to say for sure but anything is possible. If I were with a guy for 5 years and found out later that he was female 20 years ago I might be a bit miffed that I wasn't told but it wouldn't be grounds for me to leave him if I was happy before.

[Fascinita]

I don't have anything personal to add to this discussion. But I wanted to note that I think it's interesting and kind of wonderful how the experiences of some people here seem to suggest that fat can subvert ideas of gender.

That "fat" can act as a sexuality may provide some evidence to support the idea that "sexuality" as we've defined it--male/female, straight/gay, etc.--is not a category that describes "natural" sex drives along a gendered continuum. At the very least, it problematizes or complicates that idea that sex acts are always grounded in a supposed natural drive that's decided by an individual's "gender" or "sexual orientation."

Actually, queer sexualities already accomplish those complications. But the suggestion of a "fat sexuality" that transcends parsing of attraction according to gender seems to dislocate sex drives further from the sphere of gendered human interactions as we've understood them, where queerness is often understood and treated by expanding traditional categories of gender in the name of inclusion.

In some sense, "fat sex" that transcends gender seems to want to take sexuality out of the realm of sexuality defined exclusively by genitals.

This make sense to anyone?

[mergirl]

I don't have anything personal to add to this discussion. But I wanted to note that I think it's interesting and kind of wonderful how the experiences of some people here seem to suggest that fat can subvert ideas of gender.

That "fat" can act as a sexuality may provide some evidence to support the idea that "sexuality" as we've defined it--male/female, straight/gay, etc.--is not a category that describes "natural" sex drives along a gendered continuum. At the very least, it problematizes or complicates that idea that sex acts are always grounded in a supposed natural drive that's decided by an individual's "gender" or "sexual orientation."

Actually, queer sexualities already accomplish those complications. But the suggestion of a "fat sexuality" that transcends parsing of attraction according to gender seems to dislocate sex drives further from the sphere of gendered human interactions as we've understood them, where queerness is often understood and treated by expanding traditional categories of gender in the name of inclusion.

In some sense, "fat sex" that transcends gender seems to want to take sexuality out of the realm of sexuality defined exclusively by genitals.

This make sense to anyone?
yes..it makes sense. I have read here about quite a few people who are not actually 'genital sexual' and don't have interest in sex as far as what would be considered 'sex' queer or straight but consider themselves Fa's. There was even a thread before i remember from a woman who was anoyed because there was a few times she had wanted to be sexual with fas a couple of times and they were less interested in sex 'in the usually defined way' and seemed to be more into just being with her with fat as the focus of 'sex'. I know this is different from what you were saying.. but for it to have happened to someone more than once this must be more comon than i though.
I have found this discussion interesting too.. it seems that although we may define ourselves as bi/gay/straight/asexual our sexualities seem to all be different which i think is special and amazing. I love that in many cases, fat seems to be a bridge between gender sexuality somehow.

[Fascinita]

yes..it makes sense. I have read here about quite a few people who are not actually 'genital sexual' and don't have interest in sex as far as what would be considered 'sex' queer or straight but consider themselves Fa's. There was even a thread before i remember from a woman who was anoyed because there was a few times she had wanted to be sexual with fas a couple of times and they were less interested in sex 'in the usually defined way' and seemed to be more into just being with her with fat as the focus of 'sex'. I know this is different from what you were saying.. but for it to have happened to someone more than once this must be more comon than i though.
I have found this discussion interesting too.. it seems that although we may define ourselves as bi/gay/straight/asexual our sexualities seem to all be different which i think is special and amazing. I love that in many cases, fat seems to be a bridge between gender sexuality somehow.

mer, for me it's cool to be able to think of fat as another form of queerness, if queerness is defined as that which dislocates sex and sexual pleasure from the exclusive province of reproduction.

Still, it's amusing to imagine that many "FAs" will likely bristle at the idea of being called queer. :D

[mergirl]

mer, for me it's cool to be able to think of fat as another form of queerness, if queerness is defined as that which dislocates sex and sexual pleasure from the exclusive province of reproduction.

Still, it's amusing to imagine that many "FAs" will likely bristle at the idea of being called queer. :D
haha.. yeah i need to go find dravenhawk et al. and tell them this revelation! lol

[Paquito]

Well if it can qualify as being under queerness, looks like it's the pride parade for me next year! :D

[Melian]

I remember the 1st time i had an orgasm it took me about an hour to have one.. (A teenage mag told me how to do it!!) and that was by myself!! I thought i couldnt have one..
Do you ever have mental orgasm feelings .. like feeling more and more turned on?

Can't even get close to orgasming by myself - on the few occasions I've tried, I actually felt stupid for doing it. Haha.

Best case scenario: if I'm with someone I really want, I'll think they're sexy, want to touch them, get wet, and then slowly start to get bored.......

And now I'm done talking about my vag. LOL. Return to thread. :p

[mergirl]

Can't even get close to orgasming by myself - on the few occasions I've tried, I actually felt stupid for doing it. Haha.

Best case scenario: if I'm with someone I really want, I'll think they're sexy, want to touch them, get wet, and then slowly start to get bored.......

And now I'm done talking about my vag. LOL. Return to thread. :p
Melian, i'm not done talking about your vadge! lmao. I can understand how you would get bored if you think/know that there wont be some sort of ending/conclusion? somehow to feeling turned on. The fact you get wet is testiment that your sex vadge connectors seem to be working. Have you ever been to see a doc or does it not really bother you.. or do you want me to shut the fuck up and stop talking about your vadge now?? :D

[mergirl]

Well if it can qualify as being under queerness, looks like it's the pride parade for me next year! :D
Totally.. i say we rename the board lgbtf. I Dont get the whole 'q' at the end.. actually thats the first time i have seen that in any queer group.. even though i can identify with queer, wont that just mean that everyone will be queer cept Totally 100 % hetro people that only like the missionary position for when they are having babies??
The more the merrier.. but i like to know where i stand with my acronyms!

[Fascinita]

Well if it can qualify as being under queerness, looks like it's the pride parade for me next year! :D

I'll say that it feels like fat is akin to queerness, at the same time that it's true that fatness has not been targeted for the kinds of sexual violence that queerness has--precisely because there are few battlelines being drawn about whether fat is a valid sexual orientation or not. At least it seems a very cursory look would show that.

Still, I lean to saying that anything that subverts the gendered order of things may challenge and disrupt gender violence, too. This would be good. Something to take pride in, indeed.

The other thing I guess I'd note is that this line of thinking--"fat as sexual orientation"--only defines the sexuality of those attracted to fat people. Somewhere in there, the sexuality of fat people themselves needs to be taken into account. Obviously, not all fat people are attracted to fat people. Even in a relationship with a "fat-sexual" (to use mer's term), the question of how the fat person identifies (if one is fat and one is thin in a couple, for example) is problematic.

Think about this: What if a fat man identifies as "straight" in a relationship with a thin woman who identifies as "fat-sexual"? Where do these sexualities meet, especially if you consider that--using the queer analogy again--straights and gays don't usually form relationships?

To me this is all wonderful and points to the possibility of sexuality being much, much more fluid than even current popular ideas have predicted. But I can see where that much fluidity can begin to feel chaotic.

[Paquito]

I've had troubles with the acronyms too. One person told me it's not LGBTQ, it's LGBTQIQ. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Intersex, and Questioning.

So yea, CONFUSION.

[Melian]

Melian, i'm not done talking about your vadge! lmao. I can understand how you would get bored if you think/know that there wont be some sort of ending/conclusion? somehow to feeling turned on. The fact you get wet is testiment that your sex vadge connectors seem to be working. Have you ever been to see a doc or does it not really bother you.. or do you want me to shut the fuck up and stop talking about your vadge now?? :D

Never seen a doc for it, because it has never really been a problem. In fact, I feel like it is an advantage: some people do some stupid shit for sex, but not me (I save my stupid shit for other things....).

With the nerves, though, it's not quite as simple as things working or not working. I can have intercourse and it's fine, but there is no real sensation. And now I'm going to get gross, so reader beware.......however, I get extreme pain sensations when someone touches my clitoris for extended periods of time. It it absolutely awful. So no oral sex, unless the person promises not to touch it. And no, it's not an infection thing or some other nasty shit like that. All the parts have uh, passed medical inspection and are fine - it's just the nerves that seem to be messed up.

And that is REALLY all I am going to say :p:p

[mergirl]

ok.. say no more..
Totally seperate to what melian said :D.. If i am feeling aroused i find it excruciating for my clit to be touched except for really gently. I dont think i actually even touch my clit directly when i am having a fap (there is no dignified was to say that!) i think i touch more above it... or its just too intense.

[mergirl]

I've had troubles with the acronyms too. One person told me it's not LGBTQ, it's LGBTQIQ. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Intersex, and Questioning.

So yea, CONFUSION.
Oh my god.. when will it ever end!! haha..
Actually i hope it never does end, then everyone in the world give or take will be queer!
lgbtq qqlghghaalkaofmfeknkndnsllad sslslsakdekdkwdms.mdsm,S,,SS,,A,A5513%&%E££(£.sotsstmbaoaidpt!!!!!!!!!!
One of the letters stands for 'someone of the same sex touched me by accident once and i didn't punch them'

[LillyBBBW]

ok.. say no more..
Totally seperate to what melian said :D.. If i am feeling aroused i find it excruciating for my clit to be touched except for really gently. I dont think i actually even touch my clit directly when i am having a fap (there is no dignified was to say that!) i think i touch more above it... or its just too intense.

I felt touched just reading that mer. :D I prefer heavy handedness myself. I'm disclosing this purely for scientific reasons as this may be relevant to the topic at hand if you'll pardon the inuendo. :p

[mergirl]

'Spot' on..I don't think that will rub anyone up the wrong way at all Lilly! ;)
Oh! How 1970's British comedy of us! lmao.
I have noticed (on my travels) that no two women like to be touched in exactly the same way. Whether it be how hard, where, what rhythm, with or without penetration, in what order things happen.. etc etc..
I used to read about women who had never had an orgasm (not talking about people who can't) -Generally through lack of communication of what they liked because in their day it just wasn't talked about. There was a documentary about this and there was this 70 yr old woman talking about how she had had her first orgasm recently by fapping... Not wanting to sound ageist.. but..i prefer other documentaries.

[cheekyjez]

The TMI continues:

Or do you just never orgasm... do you kinna brain orgasm? Ok i am being very personal.. so you don't have to answer that. ...(pssst though if you don't pm me!! ;) )

See, I'm kind of the other way. My plumbing works fine, but I can't do the brain orgasm. It's like scratching an itch or a really good sneeze - relief of tension, but nothing mind-blowing.

=====
Something I either read somewhere or noticed myself is that there seem to be two kinds of bisexuals:

1) The kind who are attracted to men and to women independently in different ways - i.e. they're kind of like monosexuals * 2.
2) The kind who are attracted to individuals - who "don't see gender".

From what I've heard and the people I've met, male bi people tend to be group 1 and female bi people tend to be group 2, but obviously there are exceptions. I would hazard a guess that people who are kinky and bi are likely to be group 2 as well, but I don't have any evidence to back it up.

So, I'd say the bi-fat-sexuals fall within group 2 as well. Is where I was going with that.

[Fascinita]

1) The kind who are attracted to men and to women independently in different ways - i.e. they're kind of like monosexuals * 2.
2) The kind who are attracted to individuals - who "don't see gender".

What's the functional difference between 1 and 2?

[cheekyjez]

What's the functional difference between 1 and 2?

In terms of what? Who they date? Who they fuck? Or how they make those decisions?

[Fascinita]

In terms of what? Who they date? Who they fuck? Or how they make those decisions?

A bisexual is a bisexual, right? Except you're claiming different kinds of bisexuals. So I'm wondering what the differences are in how the two different kinds function, for starters. I expect it's not a matter of fashion choice or of physiology... so I'm asking about function. The categorizations you've already provided are unclear to me. A bisexual guy who dates a man but doesn't see gender... how does that differ from a bisexual guy who dates a man but does see gender?

I'm assuming your assertion is based on some noticeable difference.

[cheekyjez]

I'd say your two bisexual guys would be attracted to different things in the guy they're dating. It's not something the census would pick up, if that's what you're asking.

[Teleute]

A bisexual is a bisexual, right? Except you're claiming different kinds of bisexuals. So I'm wondering what the differences are in how the two different kinds function, for starters. I expect it's not a matter of fashion choice or of physiology... so I'm asking about function. The categorizations you've already provided are unclear to me. A bisexual guy who dates a man but doesn't see gender... how does that differ from a bisexual guy who dates a man but does see gender?

I'm assuming your assertion is based on some noticeable difference.

I'll try to clarify a little bit. A difference I've seen is that some people seem to be attracted to one type of man but a different type of woman - say, they like thin males but fat females, which I have encountered before (and I think Exile just posted about his preferences being something like this, but I'm too lazy to go dig it up right now). Similarly, I have friends who are interested in very butch women but very femme men, and some who are the other way round - they prefer it when their partner exemplifies the gender stereotype rather than defies it. I am more in the "not seeing gender" camp, although it's not really that I don't "see" it as much as the gender just doesn't play a part in whether or not I'm attracted to someone; I like both masculine and feminine people of each gender, and I don't really have any gender-specific appearance preferences either (not that I find EVERYONE attractive or anything like that, but my physical preferences aren't gender-based). Does that make any kind of sense? I don't think I'm wording it well :doh: It's not like you can look at someone and go "ohhhh, they're bisexual (subtype 2)." It's just a difference that I've noticed when talking to other people who identify as bisexual - some of us seem to have a strongly gender-oriented basis to our sexuality, and some of us don't.

[Cors]

Well a lot would depend on personality and all that but yes, I think I would be happy with a pre-op MtF. After the operation would be a problem though, I'm beig honest. I don't think I could or would be happy with a strap on or a dildo. I don't even use them myself and I think if I were blindfolded I would know the difference right away. A pre-op MtF would be perfect for me but I wouldn't want to dissuade someone from being completely happy with themselvs for my sake. A post-op FtM? I don't know. I'm too ignorant at this point to say for sure but anything is possible. If I were with a guy for 5 years and found out later that he was female 20 years ago I might be a bit miffed that I wasn't told but it wouldn't be grounds for me to leave him if I was happy before.

I love trannies, but even I would be very displeased and might even end the relationship if I find out that my partner had not been honest about something as major as a sex change.

Many post-op MtFs have such convincing, functional self-lubricating and orgasmic girly bits. They don't menstruate of course, but not all women do either. FtMs, however, are not as lucky when it comes to genital reconstruction technology, so if you need a real penis (idea, looks, function, feel, taste and all) then a post-op FtM probably won't satisfy you. Most do not opt for a phalloplasty, which creates a penis that is passable when soft and allows one to pee standing up, but erection can only be achieved with the use of prosthese (active insertion or pumping required to get your bits ready) and of course there is no ejaculation. Some go for a metoidioplasty instead, which aims to turn the testosterone-enlarged clitoris into a penis because it is much cheaper than phalloplasty and has less complications, but penetration is not possible with this technique.

[LillyBBBW]

I love trannies, but even I would be very displeased and might even end the relationship if I find out that my partner had not been honest about something as major as a sex change.

Many post-op MtFs have such convincing, functional self-lubricating and orgasmic girly bits. They don't menstruate of course, but not all women do either. FtMs, however, are not as lucky when it comes to genital reconstruction technology, so if you need a real penis (idea, looks, function, feel, taste and all) then a post-op FtM probably won't satisfy you. Most do not opt for a phalloplasty, which creates a penis that is passable when soft and allows one to pee standing up, but erection can only be achieved with the use of prosthese (active insertion or pumping required to get your bits ready) and of course there is no ejaculation. Some go for a metoidioplasty instead, which aims to turn the testosterone-enlarged clitoris into a penis because it is much cheaper than phalloplasty and has less complications, but penetration is not possible with this technique.

Yes you're right. Later in the day as it seeped in I was thinking of coming back and retracting what I said. I'm sure I would be much more than miffed at being lied to. I was so busy focusing on what would be acceptable physically that I ignored certain crucial factors like lying and deciet.

[Fascinita]

I'd say your two bisexual guys would be attracted to different things in the guy they're dating. It's not something the census would pick up, if that's what you're asking.

I'll try to clarify a little bit. A difference I've seen is that some people seem to be attracted to one type of man but a different type of woman - say, they like thin males but fat females, which I have encountered before (and I think Exile just posted about his preferences being something like this, but I'm too lazy to go dig it up right now). Similarly, I have friends who are interested in very butch women but very femme men, and some who are the other way round - they prefer it when their partner exemplifies the gender stereotype rather than defies it. I am more in the "not seeing gender" camp, although it's not really that I don't "see" it as much as the gender just doesn't play a part in whether or not I'm attracted to someone; I like both masculine and feminine people of each gender, and I don't really have any gender-specific appearance preferences either (not that I find EVERYONE attractive or anything like that, but my physical preferences aren't gender-based). Does that make any kind of sense? I don't think I'm wording it well :doh: It's not like you can look at someone and go "ohhhh, they're bisexual (subtype 2)." It's just a difference that I've noticed when talking to other people who identify as bisexual - some of us seem to have a strongly gender-oriented basis to our sexuality, and some of us don't.

I see what youse mean now.

And cheeky sez that men are more likely to be into the gendered attraction?

Any guess about why that might be?

[mergirl]

The TMI continues:



See, I'm kind of the other way. My plumbing works fine, but I can't do the brain orgasm. It's like scratching an itch or a really good sneeze - relief of tension, but nothing mind-blowing.

=====
Something I either read somewhere or noticed myself is that there seem to be two kinds of bisexuals:

1) The kind who are attracted to men and to women independently in different ways - i.e. they're kind of like monosexuals * 2.
2) The kind who are attracted to individuals - who "don't see gender".

From what I've heard and the people I've met, male bi people tend to be group 1 and female bi people tend to be group 2, but obviously there are exceptions. I would hazard a guess that people who are kinky and bi are likely to be group 2 as well, but I don't have any evidence to back it up.

So, I'd say the bi-fat-sexuals fall within group 2 as well. Is where I was going with that.
I could take on board that there are at least two types of bi-sexuals.
I know of gender-typed bi-sexuals for example- Where someone loves the idea of feminine- They will date feminine women and feminine guys. Anyone masculine in the traditional sense is not a turn on for them. Of course socially we catagorize these people as bi-sexual, though i would argue that they are gender-type fetishists! lol (ok hear me out). I have no idea if this type of sexuality is constructed by way of experiences/is hormonal/innate but i seem to see this a lot. Funny enough, i see more people who like 'feminine atributes' in both male and female partners and wonder if this is because for most of us the mother is still the primary care giver (in most western settings) and if this would change if it were not the case. Of the women i know who love butch women they also tend to prefer 'feminine' men.
Also, of the few women i know who love manly men and butch women, normally (though i only know a couple) they are more leaning towards the hetrosexual end of the sexuality spectrum.
I wonder if which gender-typed people we are attracted to has any sort of relationship with where we are ourselves on the sexuality spectrum. I don't actually think that is the case, i think there are psychoanalytical reasons for our gender-type preference. I would love to conduct some sort of study on this!!.

[mergirl]

I was so busy focusing on what would be acceptable physically that I ignored certain crucial factors like lying and deciet.
hehe.. dont worry, i think that can happen to us all!! :D

[mergirl]

The other thing I guess I'd note is that this line of thinking--"fat as sexual orientation"--only defines the sexuality of those attracted to fat people. Somewhere in there, the sexuality of fat people themselves needs to be taken into account. Obviously, not all fat people are attracted to fat people. Even in a relationship with a "fat-sexual" (to use mer's term), the question of how the fat person identifies (if one is fat and one is thin in a couple, for example) is problematic.

Think about this: What if a fat man identifies as "straight" in a relationship with a thin woman who identifies as "fat-sexual"? Where do these sexualities meet, especially if you consider that--using the queer analogy again--straights and gays don't usually form relationships?

To me this is all wonderful and points to the possibility of sexuality being much, much more fluid than even current popular ideas have predicted. But I can see where that much fluidity can begin to feel chaotic.

I can see the worry. Though i think that differing sexualities can exist within a relationship and both can be satisfied. In the case of the fat hetrosexual man/fat-sexual thin woman scenareo the woman would be satisfied by her partners size and the man would be satisfied by his partners gender (As an orientation.. not as the be all and and all obviously!)
I don't see it as one sexuality existing over another in a relationship where one partner is fat. The fat partner would also experience a 'fat sexuality' to some degree because they have the experience of being fat. Almost like a man would have to experience male sexuality even if he was in a relationship with a woman. There are different nuences in fat/fat-sexual relationships i think and i don't belive it ends at bodies. I think these relationships cross into the political, different expressions of sexuality and mindset. Both partners are equal, though different- you could look at this co-existence as 'the art of fat'. Although The focus might be different for each partner, this is generally what happens in hetro-anything relationships. I wonder if the term hetro-gender-typed has been used in a butch/femme relationship. If not -
Hetro-gendertyped (TM) lmao.

[mergirl]

Oh i feel i should clarify a bit more about a fat person experiencing 'fat sexuality'. If a hetrosexual woman is with a man, it will be with her womans sexual organs (in part) that she feels pleasure with. If not pleasure then at least some kind of sexual experience. It is a womans genitals which are giving her pleasure. So you could say this is a womans sexuality although her prediliction of attraction is towards men. I think the same thing can happen experienceing sexuality through a fat body;It will be the fat person's curves and contours that feel the touch that turns them on and the specific movements and ways of the fat body that make sex different than thin body sex. Even if the fat person does not enjoy their fat specifically, they still experience fat sexuality. If they love their bodies even better, though a woman can love her body and still be hetrosexual -Just as a fat person can love their bodies while being attracted to a thin partner.
sorry.. i tried to clarify but i think i might have cloudified more!! haha

[name2come]

Am i the only one here..??
I would say if i had to pick a sexuality that described me i would say 'lesbian' because i generally want to have sex with women.
-Though..there have been times i have seen a fat guy and thought .."ah mmmmm yas jubbles"
-I can look as a fat male body and think "wow..he is beautiful and his body is really interesting to me"- Actually to the point i am turned on
-when i read stories about fat guys when i was younger i would/could be just as turned on as if i were reading about a woman..

I dont know why i have never considered actually 'being' with a fat guy though.. i think there is a difference between interest in something beautiful and an everyday sexuality.

eta-can't belive tad is on holiday!! i'm counting on you now Telute!!!!!:bow:

I would actually describe my feelings almost identically, though being male I would identify as straight. It was definitely something that awakened after I got fat myself. I knew women who viewed sites like Dimensions as a way of encouraging self-affirmation so I figured it was worth a try. Suffice to say, it had an impact.

I realized, though, that wasn't simply a platonic admiration or even an extention of sexual pleasure in my own fat male body, but a genuine sexual arousal in other fat men not that unlike my arousal to fat women. I've never been with a fat man and I know your feeling of sensing a disconnect between this sexual arousal and active desire. I'm not sure that is what I'm feeling, even as I'm certain that I find fat male bodies very beautiful and intriguing.

[Teleute]

I see what youse mean now.

And cheeky sez that men are more likely to be into the gendered attraction?

Any guess about why that might be?

I haven't noticed this, I dunno what he's talking about there :p I think it might just be sample size - I have been more active in queer circles, so I've got a wider sample base.

Also - hetero-gender-typed.... ha! I like it!

[KatsPyjamas]

Unf, I love this board, people actually know what they're talking about here.

I like any gender, and I like any size, but I do find fat pretty hot. It's not like a deal-maker/breaker, but YEAH. I like genderqueerness too. I am not sure whether I prefer men or just have more opportunity with them.

There is a difference too between what I find attractive and what I want to bone. I can find any type of person beautiful, pretty much. I have perved upont pretty, slim femme boys. But I'd rather be banging a really un-femme fat and nerdy boy or girl.

But talking of sexuality beyond the act of sex and genitals and genders, I also like being with anyone (who I deem lovely enough), fat or not, that finds my body a turn-on - since I'm fat, those people often are fattyfatsexualz.

[mergirl]

But talking of sexuality beyond the act of sex and genitals and genders, I also like being with anyone (who I deem lovely enough), fat or not, that finds my body a turn-on - since I'm fat, those people often are fattyfatsexualz.

oooh! i think thats a big part of my sexuality too, which i think is the reason why i would date an Fa if i was fatter because i like the idea of someone being utterly turned on by me as a part of their sexiality. The same goes for basically dating someone who thinks i'm hot too. Though, 'finding me hot' isn't ingrained, but for some it can be learned! lol :D

[Tad]

Am i the only one here..??
I would say if i had to pick a sexuality that described me i would say 'lesbian' because i generally want to have sex with women.
-Though..there have been times i have seen a fat guy and thought .."ah mmmmm yas jubbles"
-I can look as a fat male body and think "wow..he is beautiful and his body is really interesting to me"- Actually to the point i am turned on
-when i read stories about fat guys when i was younger i would/could be just as turned on as if i were reading about a woman..

I dont know why i have never considered actually 'being' with a fat guy though.. i think there is a difference between interest in something beautiful and an everyday sexuality.

eta-can't belive tad is on holiday!! i'm counting on you now Telute!!!!!:bow:

I would actually describe my feelings almost identically, though being male I would identify as straight. It was definitely something that awakened after I got fat myself. I knew women who viewed sites like Dimensions as a way of encouraging self-affirmation so I figured it was worth a try. Suffice to say, it had an impact.

I realized, though, that wasn't simply a platonic admiration or even an extention of sexual pleasure in my own fat male body, but a genuine sexual arousal in other fat men not that unlike my arousal to fat women. I've never been with a fat man and I know your feeling of sensing a disconnect between this sexual arousal and active desire. I'm not sure that is what I'm feeling, even as I'm certain that I find fat male bodies very beautiful and intriguing.

These pretty much sum it up for me ^^^

(I know the thread has moved on, in fascinating directions, but since Mer mentioned me by name in the first post I figured I'd reply).

[Tad]

On the question of does fat make people of one or both genders more masculine or feminine, I’d take a step back.

Play a word association game, and right down words you generally associate with either feminine or masculine. Words that appear on those lists for some people clearly correlate with fatness. If you associate masculine with some version of large/big/takes up space, then you’ll probably perceive some masculine dimensions to fatness. If you associate feminine with softness, you’ll probably perceive some feminine dimensions to fatness. If you see both of those things, you’ll probably see some of both of those at the same time! Some may be less direct correlations too. For some people masculine might be associated with a big steak-and-potatoes appetite, for example. For some feminine might associate with needing help with more physically demanding tasks. Both of those things might correlate with fatness for some people, but not for others.

To add another layer, what are your personal sexual hot buttons, the particular things that get your attention? I think almost everyone has them to some degree, be they physical, mental, personality, status, or whatever. A softly dimpled cheek could be someone’s hot button, something seen on a fair proportion of fatter women and a smaller proportion of fat men. Or being made to feel small next to your partner which is more apt to happen with a fat guy but could obviously happen with some fat women. Or being turned on by a partner’s unbridles enjoyment of physical sensuality, which really could come from either gender, and may or may not have anything to do with fatness depending on how you view it. Or liking someone whose appearance screams wealth and success, which depending on time, culture, and personal associations could mean anything from very thin to very fat, and may vary by gender.

Even just looking at those two layers you have practically unlimited combinations. Which is why I think there is so much personal variation, even if there are certain trends shared by varying numbers of people.

For me, some of my physical hot buttons include certain face shapes and body proportions, which are more common with women but which happen with men. I also tend to associate fat more with softness and physical limitations than with power and dominating presence, so I suppose you could say that to me it is more feminine, but in my mind it doesn’t really have a masculine or feminine association (just teh hotness!). Net, I tend to really notice more fat women than fat men, but every now and then I’ll see a fat guy that nearly makes my eyes pop out of my head because he just seems to capture all of that (and other things I’ve not listed). So I guess for me I’d be Jez’s type that likes the same type across genders, rather than the one who likes different things in different genders.

[mergirl]

I really think in so many cases it is more about what gender-type you are attracted to as opposed to what gender. I know there are some who cannot get past a person's biological sex but i'm not entierly sure that is innate. ie. You will find many guys who feel genuine sexual confusion even anger when they realise the drag queen they have been having a hard on for in a bar is not actually a woman. A hetrosexual woman might be really attracted to a butch woman thinking she is a man. Can the feelings of instantanous lust and attraction be turned off so easily?
Lilly said something interesting earlier about maby being able to find butch women attractive but not from the waist down. Perhaps for some there is only so far gender typed attraction can go. Still, i wonder if gender-typed attraction is more deeply rooted than gender attraction.
This year i studied child development and this included different theories of gender development. It was interesting to me to combine the studies and make observations about my own childhood gender-typical behaviour and the behaviour of other queer, though predominantly gay people.
One theory is that of social learning (and also cognitive developmental theory-which goes one step further in regards to the thought processes involved in the social)- Basically, this theory states that children learn how to be male or female through viewing others. There have been a lot of experiments where kids are playing with toys which are gendertypically male or female- The parents reaction to them is noted. In nearly all cases the father will chastise a male child for playing with a 'female' gendertyped toy. This in turn (as the theory goes) will make the child seek out gender appropriate toys to gain the approval of adults of their own gender. In these experiments there is no such chastizing when girls play with male toys and socially it is more acceptable to be a tomboy than a 'girlie boy'.
Many of the gay women i know rejected dolls and dresses. I remember actually crying when i got a doll for xmas and i hated wearing dresses. I actually like dressing up now.. but thats cause i'm a transvestite! :p and i really have no interest in babies and really don't think they are cute. Many of my gay male friends said they were more interested in playing 'girls' games when they were younger, which are generally social based games, such as 'houses' and not so competitive.
I know this is not always the case but i think in many cases gender-typed roles are somehow non typical in gay people and i wonder if and how that ties in with gender sexuality.
The psychological perspective i was talking about is quite a simplistic one and 'gender schema theory' explains to a greater degree how the formation of gender identity comes about (if you are interested-I know you are interested in this stuff Tad).

[sowhat]

I'm a bi-sexual pre-op MTF, on the skinnier side, trying to get back from my current size of 5'10" 165lb down to 135lbs. It's not a dislike of fat, but I have knee problems from a car accident when I was 6(and even at 165 it's worse than it was before) and shockingly a f***ed up self image that tends to come with the transitory(new word?).

I like femme women of pretty much any weight, preferably heavier than light. However, once in a while a hot guy (Ex - Currently, Shemar Moore from Criminal Minds. Oooh...) will catch my eye. I don't date because I am not quite ready to share myself with someone else, and I want a relationship, not some of the f***ed up stuff people call one. Until I'm ready, I'd just be leading the other person on, and/or wasting their time. Repression takes a long time to get over.

For childhood, I was interested in computer games, engines and motors and pop culture. The thing is, the people I hang out in the car crowd probably don't care about the new track by Lady Gaga or what the latest gossip I saw on Chelsea Lately or The Soup. The people I talk that stuff with probably don't care about Jaguar XKs, Midyear Corvettes or pre-war classics like a Mercedes 540K Spezial Roadster or a Bugatti Type 57 Atlantic. I've found that interests had little to do with my gender or sexual development.

My post may seem a little random, but eh, that's me. I wrote it as responses to what I saw as common themes and things stated in the thread. I hope it's at least a little interesting.

[mergirl]

Hey sowhat, i don't think your post was random it seemed to fit in. I think its amazing that we all share the fact our gender sexuality and gender-types are all so different and also sad that most of us at some point have felt that we wouldn't fit in because of that fact. I hope you find comfort that in not fitting in together we somehow just fit.
When you are ready to share your self, that person will be very lucky.
xmer

[sowhat]

Hey sowhat, i don't think your post was random it seemed to fit in. I think its amazing that we all share the fact our gender sexuality and gender-types are all so different and also sad that most of us at some point have felt that we wouldn't fit in because of that fact. I hope you find comfort that in not fitting in together we somehow just fit.
When you are ready to share your self, that person will be very lucky.
xmer

Excellent statement. The subject of gender identity, sexual orientation, sexual development and other issues always seems to be a hard one to create elegant statements like the bolded. On that same note, this board seems to have extremely level headed, articulate discussions. It's just kind of amazing considering some discussions on this subject(not here) can end up making you check to make sure you're not on 4chan.

[chicken legs]

I'd identify myself as fat-sexual. That is, fat takes precedence over "traditional" sexual desires (i.e. the actual act of sex). I find fat guys as visually appealling as fat women, but in terms of attraction, I'd rather be with a woman.

I'm am this but would rather be with a man. A huge butt, thighs, and belly always get my attention.:D

[Paquito]

I'm am this but would rather be with a man. A huge butt, thighs, and belly always get my attention.:D

Twinsies :D

[chicken legs]

We have to get matching Hawaiian shirts:p

[Paquito]

We have to get matching Hawaiian shirts:p

And matching binoculars for our fat-sighting excursions :p

[chicken legs]

And matching binoculars for our fat-sighting excursions :p

LOL...Man I have really good eyesight so I got to go with the Blu Blockers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blEF8kBSo1c&feature=related) because people can totally feel me when I stare:blush:...:D...