Do you really think the Repubs and Dems are that different?

[Sandie_Zitkus]

Serious question.

I don't. They are two sides of the same damn coin.

What do you think?

[Jack Skellington]

I agree. I really don't think they are all that different. How does it go? No matter who wins, we still lose.

I think the American two party system needs an overhaul and neither party really speaks for the majority of Americans. We are caught between fighting and bickering from the left and the right and neither side really has our best interests in mind.

[TheSadeianLinguist]

Nope, I don't. I'm not sure I can ever vote for another Democrat again after seeing Howard Dean on The 700 Club. He was sucking up to Pat Robertson, saying that Dems were all about "family values" and understood "marriage should be between one man and one woman." Once again, it's lowly appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Hilary Clinton said she supported some bill to ban flag burning. Whether or not you like flag burning, it's a symbolic act of speech and it's unconstitutional to even consider such a bill. Again, I know she's just saying those things to look favorable to certain people, but nonetheless, it irks me. What the hell is wrong with standing up for liberal values? There's no lack of lack of backbone in American politics, I guess.

[BBW Betty]

But I have to agree with Sandie on this one. There are different "official platforms" for each party, but so much wheeling and dealing goes on, and NO ONE ever knows all of what is in a bill that gets voted on. So many unrelated things are lumped together as a result, and "We the people" are only really told about one or two headliners--usually the emotion-loaded stuff.

IMHO, Politicians are just that--politic. They (in general) will tell people what they think those people want to hear.

[Zandoz]

Serious question.

I don't. They are two sides of the same damn coin.

What do you think?


Yup, and the coin is bogus.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

Hillary - who I really thought I could support if she ran - is REALLY pissin' me off lately. It would not surprise me if she jumped parties. Her ambition outweighs her morals - I believe.



Nope, I don't. I'm not sure I can ever vote for another Democrat again after seeing Howard Dean on The 700 Club. He was sucking up to Pat Robertson, saying that Dems were all about "family values" and understood "marriage should be between one man and one woman." Once again, it's lowly appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Hilary Clinton said she supported some bill to ban flag burning. Whether or not you like flag burning, it's a symbolic act of speech and it's unconstitutional to even consider such a bill. Again, I know she's just saying those things to look favorable to certain people, but nonetheless, it irks me. What the hell is wrong with standing up for liberal values? There's no lack of lack of backbone in American politics, I guess.

[TheSadeianLinguist]

I thought I could get behind Hilary too, but first I have to be assured where she's bluffing and where she isn't.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

I thought I could get behind Hilary too, but first I have to be assured where she's bluffing and where she isn't.

She's a good politician - you may never know.;)

[ripley]

I once heard a saying....

Repulicans and Democrats...the misers vs. the moochers. ;)


I like to offend everyone equally. :D

[Zandoz]

Her ambition outweighs her morals - I believe.

Are you calling her a politician?

[loves2laugh]

i agree with sandie that they are the opposite sides of the same coin.

I THINK the problem is that neither of the two parties really represent the people anymore. i dont think the parties should pick who is going to run let the people choose- and back all the candidates equally. we have no choice except to choose the lesser of the two evils.

[Santaclear]

We must choose the lesser of two devils.

[JudgeDredd425]

i agree with sandie that they are the opposite sides of the same coin.

I THINK the problem is that neither of the two parties really represent the people anymore. i dont think the parties should pick who is going to run let the people choose- and back all the candidates equally. we have no choice except to choose the lesser of the two evils.

As long as the election is an honest one and you have any third party or independent candidates you can and should vote for them instead of the Republican or the Democrat candidates unless they have given you a clear and good reason not to. The lesser of two evils is still evil. Find a third choice!

[Fuzzy]

She's a good politician - you may never know.;)

You got that right. No matter what the media or her rivals and enemies may say... if she's able to impress this person, or that group, as she rolls around between moderate, seemingly conservative, yellow-dog democrat, or leftist patriot.. her election is made. Bill did the same thing. Even a scandal or two won't burst her bubble.

[BBW Betty]

I once heard a saying....

Repulicans and Democrats...the misers vs. the moochers. ;)


I like to offend everyone equally. :D

I wanted to say something like this, only I didn't want to stir too much. I think now I will. Thanks, Ripley, for leading the way. (I will admit to being a chicken-shit when it comes to political confrontations.) :D

My way of putting it was that the GOP will tax the middle class to afford tax breaks for the wealthy. The Dems will do it to pay for welfare for many who want it as a hand-out instead of a hand-up.

[NYEmtEsq]

For better or for worse, we have a 2 party system. So long as we have that system, and view third-party candidates as nuisances (ask a Democrat as to how they feel about Ralph Nader, and ask a Republican as to how they feel about Ross Perot....without either one of these third party candidiates, the respective elections would have fallen the other way....after all, He who has be described [on this very board] as the Best President of the latter-half of the 20th century never got more than 49% of the popular vote), the two major parties will be fighting over the centrist voters. It is for this reason that you have Democrats who support the war in Iraq, and that's why you have Republicans who supported the biggest expansion of Federal entitlement programs since the Johnson Adminstration (i.e.: Medicaid Part-D). Only the candidates from solidly backed states (e.g.: Lindsey Graham of SC, and Hillary of NY [had she not had presidential aspirations, but that's a topic for another thread]) have the luxury of being truly right or left. The others have to try to woo the fringes from the other side. Hence, you have Olympia Snowe and Lincoln Chafee on the "right" side of the aisle, and Zell Miller on the "left" side of the aisle. As a result, on election day, the question is not in which direction you would like the country turned, but in which direction you would like the country nudged. The true liberals end up voting, begrudgingly, for a center-left Democrat, and the true conservatives end up voting, holding their noses, for a center-right Republican.

[ScreamingChicken]

In the words of Michael Savage", Republicrats and Democans".

[FreeThinker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party_of_Canada

The party platform says it all. This is as clear-thinking a group of people as any that have been elected worldwide.

I love it up here...


...

[Boteroesque Babe]

Do you really think the Repubs and Dems are that different?
Yes........

[kilo riley]

Serious question.

I don't. They are two sides of the same damn coin.

What do you think?

a few years ago I would have agreed. Around the 2000 election both were beholden to corporate interests.

and although todays democratic party is gutless and as a whole they dont stand for anything there are alot of democrats that are pushing back againt the Bush administration's anti american efforts to dismantle the bill of rights.

so for that there is a difference.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

and although todays democratic party is gutless and as a whole they dont stand for anything there are alot of democrats that are pushing back againt the Bush administration's anti american efforts to dismantle the bill of rights.

WHERE?? If that were true I would agree but I see nothing happening in that area.

[HappyFatChick]

I believe there is a major difference between Democrats and Republicans:

Most Republicans are pro-life. Many Democrats believe in killing babies (abortion) and the handicapped/disabled (Terri Schaivo). The only exception (for most Republicans) is the death penalty for those who deserve it.

Republicans love America. Many democrats hate this country and want to hand it over to terrorists. They slander America even to our enemies.

Republicans are patriotic. Many democrats burn flags, antagonize the president, and love our enemies.

Most Republicans are law abiding citizens. Most jails are filled with mostly democrats.

Most Republicans are self-sufficient. Most welfare recipients are democrats.

Most Republicans give Hollyweird little credence. Most democrats worship the likes of Michael Moron.

Most Republicans are Christians. Some are Jewish. Most atheists/agnostics/
satanists, new agers, etc... are democrats.

Republicans say Merry Christmas. Democrats say happy holidays.

Most Republicans believe in lower taxes, private schools, and a strong military. Most Democrats want more taxes for the rich,more money for the failing public schools, and disrespect our military.

The list of differences is long. This is enough for now.

[FitChick]

HappyFatChick, In PA there are a lot of similarities between Dems and Reps. Its one reason I am happy to be moving back, I get more of a voting choice!

For example, right now for US Senator, there are two guys running, and BOTH are strongly pro-life. I like having an embarassment of riches in PA! :)

BTW I'm a Republican but I don't say "Merry Christmas" (because I'm not Christian.) I DO agree with you on the others though!

[Jane]

YES!!! I believe there is a great difference. Thank God!!!

[FitChick]

Nope, I don't. I'm not sure I can ever vote for another Democrat again after seeing Howard Dean on The 700 Club. He was sucking up to Pat Robertson, saying that Dems were all about "family values" and understood "marriage should be between one man and one woman." Once again, it's lowly appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Hilary Clinton said she supported some bill to ban flag burning. Whether or not you like flag burning, it's a symbolic act of speech and it's unconstitutional to even consider such a bill. Again, I know she's just saying those things to look favorable to certain people, but nonetheless, it irks me. What the hell is wrong with standing up for liberal values? There's no lack of lack of backbone in American politics, I guess.


Funny...when Democrats want to WIN, they have to try to sound like Republicans. That fact has never ceased to amuse me!

[Alicia Rose]

Mindless bloody rage

You make me cry when you talk. So many personal attacks, so much ignorance... so much hatred. It's a wonder you can breathe. :doh:

Why so much hate?

What did [insert people who aren't just like you] do to deserve your undying anger?

So much for Christian values.

=Divals

[FitChick]

You make me cry when you talk. So many personal attacks, so much ignorance... so much hatred. It's a wonder you can breathe. :doh:

Why so much hate?

What did [insert people who aren't just like you] do to deserve your undying anger?

So much for Christian values.

=Divals

Funny...I've seen liberals here blast off at conservatives, esp. President Bush. No complaints from the peanut gallery THEN. Yet aren't conservatives and President Bush "people who aren't just like you"?

Or are only conservatives able to be guilty of "hate" toward those whose views they do not agree with?

[Alicia Rose]

Funny...I've seen liberals here blast off at conservatives, esp. President Bush. No complaints from the peanut gallery THEN. Yet aren't conservatives and President Bush "people who aren't just like you"?

Or are only conservatives able to be guilty of "hate" toward those whose views they do not agree with?

The difference: I don't hate Bush. I don't even hate conservatives. I just disagree with them. If someone was dissing on conservatives, blasting them with angry lies, I'd be just as likely to jump on them as on a conservative blasting liberals.

If I were to say, for example, "All conservatives are ignorant fucktards," I would be guilty of hatemongering, unless I was doing it in a humorous way (admittedly this would only be humerous to a limited subsection of the population), in which case I would be guilty of, at the most, poor taste.

=Divals

Edit: Wow, the boards didn't censor 'fucktards.' I'm impressed.

[FitChick]

The difference: I don't hate Bush. I don't even hate conservatives. I just disagree with them. If someone was dissing on conservatives, blasting them with angry lies, I'd be just as likely to jump on them as on a conservative blasting liberals.

If I were to say, for example, "All conservatives are ignorant fucktards," I would be guilty of hatemongering, unless I was doing it in a humorous way (admittedly this would only be humerous to a limited subsection of the population), in which case I would be guilty of, at the most, poor taste.

=Divals

Edit: Wow, the boards didn't censor 'fucktards.' I'm impressed.

Well, I'd say a LOT of leftists and liberals DO hate President Bush, as evidenced by some of the threads here and elsewhere on the net, not to mention those stupid monkey similarity pics being posted.


Look, I used to be on the side of the liberals years ago. I SAW some of the things your side does; its appalling. I was turned off to it when I was ON that side. The tossing of condoms at pro-lifers at rallies, the chants, "You say don't f--k, we say f--k you", "keep your rosaries off my ovaries", and so on.

When people ask me why I switched sides, its really for three reasons: One, the issues; two, personal experiences; and three, the disgusting behavior I saw on the other side. One of the reason I lashed out here for the use of profanity on this board is because it reminds me of the SAME behavior of liberals I used to work with OFFline.

Some of you folk REALLY need to grow up before you even THINK about chiding someone on the right.

[Alicia Rose]

Well, I'd say a LOT of leftists and liberals DO hate President Bush, as evidenced by some of the threads here and elsewhere on the net, not to mention those stupid monkey similarity pics being posted.


Look, I used to be on the side of the liberals years ago. I SAW some of the crap your side does; its appalling. I was turned off to it when I was ON that side. The tossing of condoms at pro-lifers at rallies, the chants, "You say don't f--k, we say f--k you", "keep your rosaries off my ovaries", and so on.

When people ask me why I switched sides, its really for three reasons: One, the issues; two, personal experiences; and three, the disgusting behavior I saw on the other side.

Some of you folk REALLY need to grwo up before you even think about chiding someone on the right.

You know what?

I agree with a lot of what you just said.

But just because some people who believe what I do are immature and hateful, that doesn't mean I have to change what I believe.

People are horrible on both sides of this spectrum, just as they are on both sides of any spectrum.

I would switch my political views if any conservative were to articulate to me, with an argument I could accept as logical and truthful, why what they believe is better than what I believe.

But I doubt if that would happen. I've endured far too much abuse for my beliefs and the way I live my life to believe in my heart that a conservative could change my mind.

And FYI, I've been in the rallies, I've gone to the protests... and I haven't seen that kind of stuff. What I have seen is conservatives verbally and physically attacking us, and, for the most part, the liberals responding without violence or hatred.

But maybe that's just me.

=Divals

[FitChick]

And FYI, I've been in the rallies, I've gone to the protests... and I haven't seen that kind of stuff. What I have seen is conservatives verbally and physically attacking us, and, for the most part, the liberals responding without violence or hatred.

But maybe that's just me.

=Divals

Maybe you should have gone to some ACT UP rallies, and some protests outside abortion clinics. I have seen elderly women and men spat upon by gay righs activists and abortion activists, and when prolifers bring their kids, they have to endure sex ed demonstrations (putting condoms on bananas), that some of the pro-choice-to-aborters did purposely to upset the parents of the pro-life kids. I've also seen elderly, peaceful Catholic pro-life people praying their rosaries, and have spit running down their faces from militant pro-abortion protesters. I first saw this stuff when I was ON the pro-abortion side, but also after I switched sides.

And before you say kids don't belong at such demos, you should know that the abortion clinics used to have kids there too, with escort vests on (usually a child of an adult escort.)

[moonvine]

What the hell is wrong with standing up for liberal values? There's no lack of lack of backbone in American politics, I guess.

There's nothing wrong with it, and some people actually do. But they end up not making it out of Congress or the Senate. People like Pat Leahy and my fabulous Congressman Lloyd Doggett (100% voting record with the HRC, yay) are who I have in mind. I do think that the parties are different, though. In the candidate selector I posted in another thread, all my top candidates were Dems and all my bottom candidates were Republicans. Unfortunately, the more wishy washy - less committed to the ideals of their party - they are, the more likely they are to be selected to run for President. Which makes very little sense, when I think about it.

And ugh...Hilary supports a flag burning law? WTF is wrong with her? Howard Dean (who I actually liked before I heard about this?) .....

[moonvine]

i agree with sandie that they are the opposite sides of the same coin.

I THINK the problem is that neither of the two parties really represent the people anymore. i dont think the parties should pick who is going to run let the people choose- and back all the candidates equally. we have no choice except to choose the lesser of the two evils.


The people do choose. That is what the primaries are all about.

(in my opinion they tend to make not great choices. But they do choose).

[Jane]

Funny...I've seen liberals here blast off at conservatives, esp. President Bush. No complaints from the peanut gallery THEN. Yet aren't conservatives and President Bush "people who aren't just like you"?

Or are only conservatives able to be guilty of "hate" toward those whose views they do not agree with?
With constant comments from the peanut gallery, and you know it, and you've gloried in it.

Let us not try to rewrite history.

[FitChick]

There's nothing wrong with it, and some people actually do. But they end up not making it out of Congress or the Senate. People like Pat Leahy and my fabulous Congressman Lloyd Doggett (100% voting record with the HRC, yay) are who I have in mind. I do think that the parties are different, though. In the candidate selector I posted in another thread, all my top candidates were Dems and all my bottom candidates were Republicans. Unfortunately, the more wishy washy - less committed to the ideals of their party - they are, the more likely they are to be selected to run for President. Which makes very little sense, when I think about it.

And ugh...Hilary supports a flag burning law? WTF is wrong with her? Howard Dean (who I actually liked before I heard about this?) .....


Liberal pols have learned from experience that to advance and get ahead in the world, you NEED to at least SOUND like a conservative. That's because....MOST Americans are at least somewhat traditional and conservative!

[Tina]

Anita, the president is fair game, as he doesn't post here; attacking each other is not.

HFC, if that is what you think, you obviously do not have many Democrat friends. I think that polarizing the parties in the way you have only furthers ignorant attitudes: "Republicans are goodness and light, while Democrats are evil." Ridiculous. And just as ridiculous the other way around, too.

[Paul Fannin]

They are different.

But it's better to ask why I myself am a Republican and not a Democrat. No single party member walks lock step with every tenant of the party or even every politician for whom he votes. That is not a bad thing. It's better to define what each individual believes and govern himself accordingly. As for me and my house, we vote Republican.

The Republican Party is the home of practical, modern conservatism in America

I believe that America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth. We are great because we are good. We display that goodness in the charitable work that our people (yes, I said people, not government) render on a daily basis. Without the means to render that work, our is but a symbolic, but empty wish. I am a Republican because our party better encourages the American people to greatness through thrift, industry, and self-reliance. These uniquely American qualities produce the substance that enable us to show our goodness.

I believe that the business of America is Business. For all it's flaws, the American economic system has produced more wealth, prosperity, plenty, and well being for more people than any other system known to man. It must be preserved. American business isn't just GM, Exxon, and Microsoft; it's Carlos' Auto Repair and Vinh Trinh's Vietnamese Cuisine and Fran's House of Beauty. I am a Republican because because our party is better for all business.

Confiscatory taxes for well-meaning, but misguided social architecture hampers business output on all levels and creates an ever growing entitlement class. This social architecture in result is neither effective, nor compassionate. It is better to have a people that don't need their government to take care of them than one who promises everything and then takes whatever they want. I am a Republican because our party promotes this ideal.

The rights guaranteed by our sacred Constitution have little meaning unless freedom of personal economic mobility is safeguarded. Entitlements create modern-day slavery. I am a Republican because our party is the anti-Slavery party, both now and historically speaking.

I simply cannot stomach the abortion argument. We have trivialized this issue to a question of personal choice, much in the same way one chooses which pair of socks to wear. Too few people ask whether the choice is right or wrong. I believe it is wrong. While many in my own party grapple with this issue, I am a Republican because it remains the party of the Pro-Life movement.

The defense of this nation is so important that to turn military policy over to the other party is simply not a good option. I am a Republican because our party is better dispositioned to build and maintain our Armed Forces.

Excellence should be the pursuit of this nation and our people. Quotas and set-asides sacrifice this pursuit on the altar of a false idea of fairness. Affirmative Action is hurtful to the nation. I am a Republican because our party rejects this notion.

I believe that judges should not legislate from the bench. Activist judges make a mockery of the democratic process and usurp power not given them by the people. I am a Republican because I have better faith that our party serves this ideal better than the Democrats.

As to the differences question, I believe I have answered them. But I have done so by articulating what I believe. If someone feels that what I have said now or in the past as hate, so be it. I will not (and have not heretofore) attack anyone personally, nor will I defend in any way what I've said or the tone with which it is spoken. It is here for all to see.

Paul

[FitChick]

I grew up in a blue collar area where everybody voted Democrat (they just pulled the big lever), because their unions told them to vote that way. Also, the Democratic committeeman would fix your parking tickets, whereas the Republicans would not. Althoguh I was Democrat for a while, I had a negative view of the party because of the crooked things I saw them doing where I grew up. Gee, I almost forgot to mention the ghost voters too.

[HappyFatChick]

Tina- I do have many Democrat friends. I used to BE a Democrat. I ran a Democratic Presidential candidate's campaign and won my county for him. (One of the few counties in the whole state he did win.) So I have first-hand experience with the party. As I got older, I got much more conservative.

FC- I agree with most of what you wrote and I enjoy your stories. (Sorry I don't know enough about the Jewish faith to even try to discuss it with you.)

And to Paul- very well-written, accurate, and nicely said piece. (I don't usually read long posts, but it was well worth it:) )

[Tina]

Well, it's good to know that you do, HFC, but the way you talk and put every Democrat into a box and elevate the Conservatives while you put down the negatives, don't you think that that kind of generalizations are damaging? I mean, there are certain things that one can say about a group of people -- things they might have in common -- but beyond that they are all individuals, with beliefs that vary as much as the number in the group. Think about your list and then insert Republicans instead of Democrats. Do you like it when people generalize about you that way? It pretty much stinks. I also think it's easy to listen to conservative or liberal radio shows and the like, and attribute what they are saying to those of each political party, when if you ask most individuals, as we have seen here, not everyone tows the party line on every issue.

I think there should be room for individual differences, as most people do not let their political party dictate their thinking and all of their decisions. Do you?

[HappyFatChick]

Tina- of course. That's why I don't attack people personally. I say left wing lunatic fringe and that's what I mean. I don't point fingers on here even if I thought someone was.

I say most, many, some etc. That is different from saying "you democrats or you liberals".

[FitChick]

Tina- I do have many Democrat friends. I used to BE a Democrat. I ran a Democratic Presidential candidate's campaign and won my county for him. (One of the few counties in the whole state he did win.) So I have first-hand experience with the party. As I got older, I got much more conservative.

FC- I agree with most of what you wrote and I enjoy your stories. (Sorry I don't know enough about the Jewish faith to even try to discuss it with you.)

And to Paul- very well-written, accurate, and nicely said piece. (I don't usually read long posts, but it was well worth it:) )

We defnitely need to chat.....we both were Democrats and I come from a family of Democrats (my late grandfather was a longtime Democratic ward leader in Philly, and had a saying hanging up in his office by FDR: "Anyone who votes for a Republican gets what they deserve"... lol!)

[Tina]

Thank you for the clairfication, HFC.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

I started this thread to really understand what people think is different about both parties. NOT to start a mud slinging contest.

HFC - I know you think the things you say are NOT aimed at anyone here. But I am neither a repub or a dem and I was insulted by your post. Your post was both inflammatory and simplistic. And very insulting.

I'm disappointed in how this thread is going.

[Tina]

Well, I guess saying "most" and not "all" is supposed to get a person off the hook for being insulting.

[Sandie_Zitkus]

Well, I guess saying "most" and not "all" is supposed to get a person off the hook for being insulting.

I don't know anymore Tina - I'm just disgusted by it.:mad:

[Tina]

Yeah. I guess that's why this is Hyde Park, eh?

[TheSadeianLinguist]

Well, I guess saying "most" and not "all" is supposed to get a person off the hook for being insulting.

As long as we pigeonhole MOST women, Democrats, and other people Anita finds distasteful, no, it's not insulting. And she's a writer. Quit questioning her logic. :rolleyes:

[NYEmtEsq]

I started this thread to really understand what people think is different about both parties. NOT to start a mud slinging contest * * * I was insulted by your post. Your post was both inflammatory and simplistic. And very insulting.

I'm disappointed in how this thread is going.

At least nobody has thrown around the "Hannitized Nazi" charge......yet.

[kilo riley]

I believe there is a major difference between Democrats and Republicans:

Most Republicans are pro-life. Many Democrats believe in killing babies (abortion) and the handicapped/disabled (Terri Schaivo). The only exception (for most Republicans) is the death penalty for those who deserve it.

Republicans love America. Many democrats hate this country and want to hand it over to terrorists. They slander America even to our enemies.

Republicans are patriotic. Many democrats burn flags, antagonize the president, and love our enemies.

Most Republicans are law abiding citizens. Most jails are filled with mostly democrats.

Most Republicans are self-sufficient. Most welfare recipients are democrats.

Most Republicans give Hollyweird little credence. Most democrats worship the likes of Michael Moron.

Most Republicans are Christians. Some are Jewish. Most atheists/agnostics/
satanists, new agers, etc... are democrats.

Republicans say Merry Christmas. Democrats say happy holidays.

Most Republicans believe in lower taxes, private schools, and a strong military. Most Democrats want more taxes for the rich,more money for the failing public schools, and disrespect our military.

The list of differences is long. This is enough for now.


this sounds like something stephen colbert would say

btw..what makes you patriotic?

[Sandie_Zitkus]

this sounds like something stephen colbert would say

btw..what makes you patriotic?

Her red white and blue undies???:) (I'm joking)

[kilo riley]

WHERE?? If that were true I would agree but I see nothing happening in that area.

the democrats don't use fear like the republicans do to get their agenda.

there are lots of dems speaking out. Conyers and Fiengold come to mind.

the dems have no subpeona power so they can't do a whole lot when it comes to holding hearings so it may look like they aren't doing much but wait until they get the house back(if they do). You'll see some action then

[CurvaceousBBWLover]

There are real differences between the national Democratic and Republican parties. But often, those differences are not easy to see becuase the conservative Democrats have the party slanted in the direction of being Republican Lite. Our elections are bland because you have the rich Democrats running against the rich Republicans. Both parties are promoting the interests of other rich people in the background. In the year 2006, you really hear only a small number of people in either party speaking up for poor people and middle class people.



Serious question.

I don't. They are two sides of the same damn coin.

What do you think?

[CurvaceousBBWLover]

Happy Fat Chick, the political world is not the clear Manichean struggle between good and evil that you picture.

Many Democrats do favor the right of other people to choose abortion, but that doesn't mean they would do it themselves. But there is a very strong conservative wing in the party and they are definitely against abortion.

Democrats love America as much as Republicans say they do. But you know, the Republicans do a lot of tough talking but they have no serious interest in protecting America from real terrorists. They would rather wage fake wars in Iraq and Iran instead of admitting to themselves that they can't catch Osama Bin Laden. Republicans would rather hand our ports over to Saudi Arabia, the country that spawned the 9/11 terrorists.

Republicans don't have a monopoly on patriotism. Patriotism is an American thing. Only a few extremists would do something like burning an American flag. However, a conservative Republican would not hesitate to burn the avarage taxpayer by passing an unnecessary tax cut for rich people.

Most Democrats are law-abiding. The people running this country are corrupt Republicans. Our jails are filled with people who were disadvantaged in life and made choices they should not have made. You will find people of all stripes in the jails.

Most Republicans are people who are dumb enough to continually vote against their own economic self-interests because they want to see the Republicans get down on gays, blacks, Hispanic immigrants or any other group that does not fit into the WASP cookie cutter image of what an American should be.

Michael Moore is a good man. His movie, Fahrenheit 911, tells some shocking truths about this country that the Republicans don't want the average American to know.

What shocks me is how Republicans could think that Rush Limbaugh, a drug addict and crook, is a great man.

And don't confuse the appearance of piety with being a real Christian. Many of your more conservative Republicans may call on the Lord, but the things they vote for are things Jesus would never have condoned. War, discrimination, hatred of poor people, and greed are things that go against everything Christ taught. But those are Republican values.

Only a right-wing extremist would actually picture atheists and satanists as Democrats. I'm a born-again Christian, and I've supported Democrats all my life.

Democrats want fair taxes for all Americans, high-quality schools for all people and a military which has the tools it needs to succeed in combat. Republicans want a war with Iraq but they won't put all the troops they need into Iraq and they failed to provide the troops with the body armor they needed.

Republicans cut financial aid for college.

Republicans are raising taxes on the average American and they are letting rich people get away with not paying not paying their fair share in taxes.


And while I vehmently disagree with most things the Republicans stand for, I will say there are some Republicans who are among the nicest of people. They're just grossly misguided.


I believe there is a major difference between Democrats and Republicans:

Most Republicans are pro-life. Many Democrats believe in killing babies (abortion) and the handicapped/disabled (Terri Schaivo). The only exception (for most Republicans) is the death penalty for those who deserve it.

Republicans love America. Many democrats hate this country and want to hand it over to terrorists. They slander America even to our enemies.

Republicans are patriotic. Many democrats burn flags, antagonize the president, and love our enemies.

Most Republicans are law abiding citizens. Most jails are filled with mostly democrats.

Most Republicans are self-sufficient. Most welfare recipients are democrats.

Most Republicans give Hollyweird little credence. Most democrats worship the likes of Michael Moron.

Most Republicans are Christians. Some are Jewish. Most atheists/agnostics/
satanists, new agers, etc... are democrats.

Republicans say Merry Christmas. Democrats say happy holidays.

Most Republicans believe in lower taxes, private schools, and a strong military. Most Democrats want more taxes for the rich,more money for the failing public schools, and disrespect our military.

The list of differences is long. This is enough for now.

[CurvaceousBBWLover]

Actually, they don't HAVE to sound like Republicans. But the milquetoast moderates and the conservative Democrats don't have the spine to stand up to the GOP and aggressively sell a distinctly Democratic vision to the American people.

The moderates don't get it. lf the American people are given a choice between Republican and Republican-lite, they will choose a Republican every time. Al Gore and John Kerry were qualified to win, but the vote went to George W. Bush both times.


Funny...when Democrats want to WIN, they have to try to sound like Republicans. That fact has never ceased to amuse me!

[CurvaceousBBWLover]

This certainly is surprising given some of the generalizations you just finished making about Democrats. Someone reading your post would think you lived in bubble.

There are a lot of great people who live in both parties. I think that many of them have very differente experiences which would explain their voting behavior.

Tina- I do have many Democrat friends. I used to BE a Democrat. I ran a Democratic Presidential candidate's campaign and won my county for him. (One of the few counties in the whole state he did win.) So I have first-hand experience with the party. As I got older, I got much more conservative.

FC- I agree with most of what you wrote and I enjoy your stories. (Sorry I don't know enough about the Jewish faith to even try to discuss it with you.)

And to Paul- very well-written, accurate, and nicely said piece. (I don't usually read long posts, but it was well worth it:) )

[FitChick]

the democrats don't use fear like the republicans do to get their agenda.



YES THEY DO, they just use it on different classes of people, like inner city minorities and seniors ("Don't vote for those nasty Republicans, they want to take away your Social Security!", or, "Don't vote for those nasty Republicans, they want to stop your welfare checks!")

[TheSadeianLinguist]

Honestly, I've never heard any Democrat say that. Bit hyperbolic today, aren't we?

[FitChick]

Honestly, I've never heard any Democrat say that. Bit hyperbolic today, aren't we?


Guess you've never lived in South Philadelphia....or Brooklyn.

[TheSadeianLinguist]

I'm happy to read any source you have that says that.

[MissToodles]

yes as long as both accept and curry favor for big business, they both will be one and the same.

[FitChick]

I'm happy to read any source you have that says that.


Go to South Philly or Brooklyn right before election day. Visit the local Democratic HQs. Ask what Republicans want to do with Social Security and welfare checks. See what you're told.

I heard that so much growing up in SP that I assumed all Democrats everywhere used those two fear factors on seniors and minorities.

[TheSadeianLinguist]

Interestingly enough, I live in a huge welfare state and I've never heard anything close to that. Now I've heard Repubs wish to abolish Social Security, which is a mixed truth, but, "They want to take your welfare checks away!" No. That's a bunch of crap and you know it.

[HappyFatChick]

I've heard both. Repeatedly. If I had time I'd go do a google search on which democrat candidates said it. I have personally heard many democrat candidates use it as a big part of their (failed) campaigns.

[TheSadeianLinguist]

Okay. Googled. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Republicans+want+to+take+away+your+welfare+ch ecks.%22&btnG=Google+Search)

[Turin]

Serious question.

I don't. They are two sides of the same damn coin.

What do you think?

There is a difference.... One side thinks they have all the answers and pats the other side on the head condescendingly as one pats a naive child on the behind to send them to bed. The other side thinks they have all the answers and acts as an angry lynching mob, attacking as an evil heretic even the most minor of dissenting opinions and support of the current administration.

[Jane]

There is a difference.... One side thinks they have all the answers and pats the other side on the head condescendingly as one pats a naive child on the behind to send them to bed. The other side thinks they have all the answers and acts as an angry lynching mob, attacking as an evil heretic even the most minor of dissenting opinions and support of the current administration.
Okay, I assume this all hinges on WHO is the current administration.

[Turin]

Okay, I assume this all hinges on WHO is the current administration.

absolutely

[kilo riley]

YES THEY DO, they just use it on different classes of people, like inner city minorities and seniors ("Don't vote for those nasty Republicans, they want to take away your Social Security!", or, "Don't vote for those nasty Republicans, they want to stop your welfare checks!")

I was talking about using fear to keep the citizens afraid for their lives so they continue to vote for you. Cheney was pretty blunt about it during the election. Vote for us or we will get hit again.

The Bush admin use the fear card everytime they want to get something done politically. They have used fear quite effectively whether it was the color coded terror warnings during the the run up to the election (I wonder what happened to those:rolleyes: ) They used fear to get the Patriot act through and they continue to use fear to get the consent of the people for domestic survelliance with a warrant.

and as far as your response....I know alot of republicans(i used to be one) and they all want to get ride of social security and welfare. They loathe FDR and the new deal. So the dems telling people that the republicans want to take away their social security has alot of truth to it. The republicans tried to privatize SS last year.

[FitChick]

Interestingly enough, I live in a huge welfare state and I've never heard anything close to that. Now I've heard Repubs wish to abolish Social Security, which is a mixed truth, but, "They want to take your welfare checks away!" No. That's a bunch of crap and you know it.

I agree its a bunch of crap (Republicans do not want to refuse aid to those who are truly needy), but that doesn't stop the Dems in places like South Philly and Brooklyn from using it to scare people.

[TheSadeianLinguist]

I think Welfare to Work is a good program. Repubs are still trying to privatize SS, but it'll go bust before I ever get to retirement age, for sure, mostly due to bogus claims on disability.

[HappyFatChick]

People need to create their own retirement portfolios. Not to depend on company pensions or the government.

If you invest in stocks/bonds/ munies/cd's/real estate (whatever is hot at the time you start), you should be fine. Just remember to diversify and go with what is hot/high yield. Don't sit in 5% cd's when you can get 10%+ in the stock market. Or 20%+ in real estate.

Educate yourself. Be your own business. The younger you are, the riskier you can be. Do it! Retire rich.

I would much rather invest my social security than let the government do it for me. My rate of return would be MUCH higher.

p.s. to kilo riley- I find your name terribly offensive. It reminds me of the women on here who talked about killing Elizabeth Hasselbeck of the View (because she is a Republican I presume.)

[TheSadeianLinguist]

You're supposed to look out for your own retirement. SS was merely designed to keep old people and the severely disabled from starving to death. That is all.

[LeedsFeeder]

People need to create their own retirement portfolios. Not to depend on company pensions or the government.

If you invest in stocks/bonds/ munies/cd's/real estate (whatever is hot at the time you start), you should be fine. Just remember to diversify and go with what is hot/high yield. Don't sit in 5% cd's when you can get 10%+ in the stock market. Or 20%+ in real estate.

Educate yourself. Be your own business. The younger you are, the riskier you can be. Do it! Retire rich.

I would much rather invest my social security than let the government do it for me. My rate of return would be MUCH higher.

p.s. to kilo riley- I find your name terribly offensive. It reminds me of the women on here who talked about killing Elizabeth Hasselbeck of the View (because she is a Republican I presume.)

A lot of people don't have those options.

[HappyFatChick]

Everyone has options and choices. This is America where even the dumbest people can be millionaires. It's about ambition, attitude, self-talk, and determination. You choose to be a winner or loser. There are no circumstances or excuses. You choose. Whatever you choose, you become.

[TheSadeianLinguist]

Please visit the Appalachians. There are people here who have never seen electricity. I don't think they're going to become millionaires anytime soon.

[LeedsFeeder]

Everyone has options and choices. This is America where even the dumbest people can be millionaires. It's about ambition, attitude, self-talk, and determination. You choose to be a winner or loser. There are no circumstances or excuses. You choose. Whatever you choose, you become.

Indeed, yet there are people who dont get the opportunity or aren't able to find that opportunity.

If you invest in stocks/bonds/ munies/cd's/real estate (whatever is hot at the time you start), you should be fine. Just remember to diversify and go with what is hot/high yield.

If only that was available to everybody eh?

[kilo riley]

People need to create their own retirement portfolios. Not to depend on company pensions or the government.

If you invest in stocks/bonds/ munies/cd's/real estate (whatever is hot at the time you start), you should be fine. Just remember to diversify and go with what is hot/high yield. Don't sit in 5% cd's when you can get 10%+ in the stock market. Or 20%+ in real estate.

Educate yourself. Be your own business. The younger you are, the riskier you can be. Do it! Retire rich.

I would much rather invest my social security than let the government do it for me. My rate of return would be MUCH higher.

p.s. to kilo riley- I find your name terribly offensive. It reminds me of the women on here who talked about killing Elizabeth Hasselbeck of the View (because she is a Republican I presume.)


you seem very out of touch with reality.

not everyone can invest. Some people grow up in poverty. Some people have college student loans to pay off. With rising costs in housing and energy who has the money to take risks in the stock market other than people that already have money to burn. I have some investments but they are long term. Young people don't have the option to take risks especially when you are paying interest on student loans and the cost of living continues to increase.



how was that rate of return for those enron investors eh?

btw..the name kilo riley doesn't mean what you think it does. It's a play on words from one of my fav bands Rilo Kiley

[Turin]

Honestly, I've never heard any Democrat say that. Bit hyperbolic today, aren't we?


Have a look at the Democratic Underground site... I guarantee you can find, if not those words, a very clear inference. It's prolly on the same page where George Bush eats live kittens for fun*.

* - ok that last sentence was a bit hyperbolic.

[CleverBomb]

Everyone has options and choices. This is America where even the dumbest people can be millionaires. It's about ambition, attitude, self-talk, and determination. You choose to be a winner or loser. There are no circumstances or excuses. You choose. Whatever you choose, you become.
What have these "dumbest people" done to deserve being millionaires -- wisely chosen to be born to wealthy parents? Painstakingly selected the correct Powerball numbers? Dilligently happening to have the Right Look to be This Week's Hottest Pop Tart?

Some people are born on third base and think they've hit a triple -- but think the batter who just got nailed in the head by a fastball doesn't deserve the automatic walk.

-Rusty
(Currently undergoing inpatient treatment for metaphor abuse)

[CleverBomb]

Note: parent post is on previous page.
What have these "dumbest people" done to deserve being millionaires -- wisely chosen to be born to wealthy parents? Painstakingly selected the correct Powerball numbers? Dilligently happening to have the Right Look to be This Week's Hottest Pop Tart?

Some people are born on third base and think they've hit a triple -- but think the batter who just got nailed in the head by a fastball doesn't deserve the automatic walk.

And, it appears you [the parent poster] believe every single pitch is in the strike zone.
The guys who start on third don't care if the strike zone is redefined as "wherever the ball goes", just so long as nobody gets to take a base on balls.
I'm willing to pay for better pitching.

-Rusty
(Turns self over to the Hague for torturing the already-abused metaphor)

Edit: I'm not replying to myself, the editing time-window lapsed and I had to attack the metaphor pre-emptively or the terrorists will have won.

[Jane]

Why do Amway meetings, Ayn Rand books, and Real Estate Get-Rich-Quick images keep swirling through my mind.

Money is one of the LEAST important things in this world, and certainly NOTHING I would use to judge the success of my life and time on this world.

[Turin]

What have these "dumbest people" done to deserve being millionaires -- wisely chosen to be born to wealthy parents? Painstakingly selected the correct Powerball numbers? Dilligently happening to have the Right Look to be This Week's Hottest Pop Tart?


How about worked hard to becoem a leading personal injury attorney? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edwards)

How about busted his ass to get a Rhodes Scholarship and make something of himself? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton)

How about busting his ass from being the ninth of ten children born in a small town in Mississippi to becoming self made billionaire? (http://www.nndb.com/people/619/000053460/)

Or how about a former slave working working hard to become a millionaire especially in times of rampant and socially acceptable racism? (http://www.madamecjwalker.com/)

Look there are as many people born on third base looking down on the guy at the plate as there are people who wont even tryout for the team and demand to be on the all star team

Note: parent post is on previous page.

And, it appears you [the parent poster] believe every single pitch is in the strike zone.
The guys who start on third don't care if the strike zone is redefined as "wherever the ball goes", just so long as nobody gets to take a base on balls.
I'm willing to pay for better pitching.


And I want the batter to at least take a swing before I pay for anything

- and thus ends my use of baseball analogies

[Zandoz]

People need to create their own retirement portfolios. Not to depend on company pensions or the government.

If you invest in stocks/bonds/ munies/Cd's/real estate (whatever is hot at the time you start), you should be fine. Just remember to diversify and go with what is hot/high yield. Don't sit in 5% cd's when you can get 10%+ in the stock market. Or 20%+ in real estate.

Educate yourself. Be your own business. The younger you are, the riskier you can be. Do it! Retire rich.

I would much rather invest my social security than let the government do it for me. My rate of return would be MUCH higher.

p.s. to kilo riley- I find your name terribly offensive. It reminds me of the women on here who talked about killing Elizabeth Hasselbeck of the View (because she is a Republican I presume.)


Question: What happens to all the folks with their privatized SS investments when there is a stock market crash? Or their investments take a huge hit from corporate shenanigans the likes of Enron? Or some white collar crook investment planner shafts them? Or they're just plain incompetent investing it themselves? Do we say tuffo, sorry about your bad luck, try not to be too conspicuous with your homelessness and starvation. Or do we all have to bail them out.

[HappyFatChick]

What if? What if? What if?
All the objections. All the fear.

You have to dive in and do it.
Remember I said diversify?

You don't build your whole portfolio on one investment.
Diversify!

I forgot what the ratios are. I think 40% stocks/bonds/munies. 40% real estate. 20% cash, cd's, money markets. I think. Talk to a trusted planner.
Educate yourself. Read a Suzy Orman book. Read everything you can get your eyes and hands on about investing. It's YOUR money. It's YOUR future. YOU determine how and when you retire and with how much.

Don't depend on the government. Don't depend on a spouse. Don't depend on parents. Don't depend on anyone except yourself. Be self-relient. Self-sufficient. You will be fine.

[JudgeDredd425]

Question: What happens to all the folks with their privatized SS investments when there is a stock market crash? Or their investments take a huge hit from corporate shenanigans the likes of Enron? Or some white collar crook investment planner shafts them? Or they're just plain incompetent investing it themselves? Do we say tuffo, sorry about your bad luck, try not to be too conspicuous with your homelessness and starvation. Or do we all have to bail them out.


Here is another question: What happens when government spends it last dollar on some pork barrel piece of crap, whose only purpose is to help get the slug who put it in to law reelected, and the government can't steal another dime from the citizenry because they don't have it, and would not part with it if they did have it without gunfire being exchanged between them and government thieves.

The social security system is a legalized pyramid scheme and the money being taken in today has already been wasted by government, and the people only have gov't I.O.U.'s left in the money's place. Social Security was never meant to be a person's retirement fund, there was also 16+ people paying for everyone collecting when first created. We are now down to about 3 to 1 and dropping fast. Soon the pyramid will be inverted and the system will collapse. Period. End of Story.

In light of the above facts, how is it that people taking care of themselves could be any worse?

[Zandoz]

What if? What if? What if?
All the objections. All the fear.

Every one of those scenarios have and will happen. What meager 401K I had took a 47% hit with the last big stock dive and the Enron et-al shenanigans, and that was a hiccup compared to past depressions. Just last year locally, thousands here were left high and dry when a so called reputable financial planner's investment scheme turned out to be a total scam...last I knew, they thought he and the money were somewhere in South America. That 401K that took the 47% hit...managed by one of the top investment/brokerage/financial firms in the country...employing countless hoards of MBAs, accountants, and other various and sundry very well paid supposed experts. If they can't get it right, how is the average Jane & Jone Doe stand a chance. Remember the Dot-com caze...and bust.

Failure to deal with those kinds of issues up front will lead to the same kind of problems that have occurred with the "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" management of SS to date.

[Zandoz]

Here is another question: What happens when government spends it last dollar on some pork barrel piece of crap, whose only purpose is to help get the slug who put it in to law reelected, and the government can't steal another dime from the citizenry because they don't have it, and would not part with it if they did have it without gunfire being exchanged between them and government thieves.

The social security system is a legalized pyramid scheme and the money being taken in today has already been wasted by government, and the people only have gov't I.O.U.'s left in the money's place. Social Security was never meant to be a person's retirement fund, there was also 16+ people paying for everyone collecting when first created. We are now down to about 3 to 1 and dropping fast. Soon the pyramid will be inverted and the system will collapse. Period. End of Story.

In light of the above facts, how is it that people taking care of themselves could be any worse?


I'm not saying it doesn't need fixed...and brought back to reality.

When it comes right down to it, the stock market and such are nothing more than legalized gambling, with better odds. Regardless of the odds, gambling more than you can afford to lose is a sucker bet. And the numeric majority of folks in this country today can't afford to lose anything.

I'm just not willing to sign on to any plan that ignores any of the big questions....that's what got us where we are now.

[JudgeDredd425]

I'm not saying it doesn't need fixed...and brought back to reality.

When it comes right down to it, the stock market and such are nothing more than legalized gambling, with better odds. Regardless of the odds, gambling more than you can afford to lose is a sucker bet. And the numeric majority of folks in this country today can't afford to lose anything.

I'm just not willing to sign on to any plan that ignores any of the big questions....that's what got us where we are now.

The only guarantees in life are the government stealing your money and calling the theft taxes, and you dying at some point. Everything else may or may not happen.

It is up to each individual to take responsibility for themselves, and if they don't do that then they will be living the crazy life of a homeless beggar or they will be on someone's charity. I say that it is not the government's place to steal from me to give to others who made stupid choices and/or refuse to work. The only exceptions that I would make to this rule would be children under 18 and those who are physically incapable of taking care of themselves. I would expect everyone (able-bodied) else to stand or fall on their own and if in need of charity, find a private source of it.

[kilo riley]

The only guarantees in life are the government stealing your money and calling the theft taxes, and you dying at some point. Everything else may or may not happen.

It is up to each individual to take responsibility for themselves, and if they don't do that then they will be living the crazy life of a homeless beggar or they will be on someone's charity. I say that it is not the government's place to steal from me to give to others who made stupid choices and/or refuse to work. The only exceptions that I would make to this rule would be children under 18 and those who are physically incapable of taking care of themselves. I would expect everyone (able-bodied) else to stand or fall on their own and if in need of charity, find a private source of it.

well you won't get any argument here that all able-bodied people should work and contribute to society.

even if you had every able-bodied person off the welfare ranks you'd still need taxes to run the government, the roads and infastructure, public schools, self defense, etc etc

but you believe taxes are theft...how do you expect to pay for the nuclear bombs?

[HappyFatChick]

Someone's 401k should only be a small part of someone's portfolio.
The stock market should be used mostly for long-term investing.

I hear a lot of fear here. Risk is always an issue. Don't want risk? Put your money in a cd only and have little/nothing to retire on.

And remember: D-I-V-E-R-S-I-F-Y!

[JudgeDredd425]

well you won't get any argument here that all able-bodied people should work and contribute to society.

even if you had every able-bodied person off the welfare ranks you'd still need taxes to run the government, the roads and infastructure, public schools, self defense, etc etc

but you believe taxes are theft...how do you expect to pay for the nuclear bombs?

Anything beyond the bare minimum to satisfy government's needs in order to fulfill it Constitutional role qualifys as stealing in my book. Some examples from the not too distant past as detailed by Forbes. See this link:

http://www.forbes.com/business/2006/05/18/katrina-pork-storm-cz_em_0518pork.html

The problem here is the the fact that this behavior by government has become typical. Literally billions upon billions of dollars, if not trillions by now, have been wasted by government over the years.

The money spent is not made by the government it is made by the people and it has been stolen under false pretenses. If government, after surveying the condition of our own country and people, figures that they have 18.5 million dollars to spend "helping" the Irish people with their peace accord, have over 100 million for buying airline tickets to be used by the DoD that they don't use and don't get a refund for, millions to study cow farts, and oh yeah why not heap on 15 billion for "aids" in the third world, to to name a few things. If government has money to do these things, and clearly they do since they have done them, then I figure they have too much money which means they stole it. Government spends money more irresponsibly than a heroin addict looking to score. When they run out of money does that mean they finally stop? HELL NO! They figure they can just steal some more from the citizens of the United States. It is disgusting and it is criminal what government has done.

[Zandoz]

Someone's 401k should only be a small part of someone's portfolio.
The stock market should be used mostly for long-term investing.

I hear a lot of fear here. Risk is always an issue. Don't want risk? Put your money in a cd only and have little/nothing to retire on.

And remember: D-I-V-E-R-S-I-F-Y!

Great in theory, but it falls apart when you have nothing to invest after food, clothing, shelter, medical, transportation, kids schooling, etc, etc, etc....which is where a good part, if not most, of the households in this country are. The median income of households of all types in 2004 was $44,389 (U.S. Bureau of the Census). That means half the families in this country make that or LESS...and the distribution of those folks is to the less end of the scale. Covering the necessities for a typical 3.4 person household on that or less tends to make stock investment and diversity laughable concepts.

Yes, investing, and diversity are all well and good...if you have it to invest...and your investments don't go sour.

[CurvaceousBBWLover]

TRUE. Happy Fat Chick has a good theory. But you have to have money to begin with in order to have something to save and invest. It's not easy when you are living from paycheck to paycheck and barely making it.

Great in theory, but it falls apart when you have nothing to invest after food, clothing, shelter, medical, transportation, kids schooling, etc, etc, etc....which is where a good part, if not most, of the households in this country are. The median income of households of all types in 2004 was $44,389 (U.S. Bureau of the Census). That means half the families in this country make that or LESS...and the distribution of those folks is to the less end of the scale. Covering the necessities for a typical 3.4 person household on that or less tends to make stock investment and diversity laughable concepts.

Yes, investing, and diversity are all well and good...if you have it to invest...and your investments don't go sour.

[CleverBomb]

TRUE. Happy Fat Chick has a good theory. But you have to have money to begin with in order to have something to save and invest. It's not easy when you are living from paycheck to paycheck and barely making it.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.
In reality, there is.

-Rusty
(Stole the quote from I know not where.)

[dragorat]

Yup, and the coin is bogus.

Instead of double headed it's double assed!

[dragorat]

To me MOST politicians are crooks.They tell you what you want to hear so you'll vote for them then once elected they forget what they promised & either do as they please or play follow the leader or kiss ass of those who are willing to give them large amounts of money to look the other way when they shouldn't!:mad:

[CurvaceousBBWLover]

That's possible. But politicians lie because people want to be lied to. No one wants to hear that he or she will have to pay higher taxes to support unnecessary wars.


To me MOST politicians are crooks.They tell you what you want to hear so you'll vote for them then once elected they forget what they promised & either do as they please or play follow the leader or kiss ass of those who are willing to give them large amounts of money to look the other way when they shouldn't!:mad: