Taxes

[HappyFatChick]

After reading all the whining about how the rich Republicans don't pay enough taxes and just want more tax breaks, I found something interesting: It appears only the "rich" pay taxes.

From the IRS:

*The top 50% pay almost 97% of all income taxes!
* The top 1% pay almost a third!
* Almost 84% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 25% of income
earners.

So much for the stupid, inaccurate theory that the rich don't pay taxes...

[EtobicokeFA]

What about the rumours, that rich people use offshore accounts, and tax loopholes to lower their tax bill and that lower income people don't have access to them?

[Observer]

HFC, you do realize I hope what you are doing?

Your insertion of facts into the duologue is threatening!

In fact, it undermines the very essence of class-based political division in this country!

Those who profit from such division don't care to hear such information - never mind that you are 100% correct.

In fairness there are some other points that should also be brought up.

The statistics you quote apply to Federal income taxes paid on reported taxable income by individuals. It does not include vast classes of income which is exempt or simply not reported. It also does not include Federal income taxes paid by private and public corporations, State and municipality income taxes, or other forms of taxes (such as consumption and property taxes, not to mention fees and tariffs).

To really understand the subject of taxes requires understanding of all of this - as well as a realization that a huge percentage (I believe nearly 40%) of adult Americans pay no income taxes at all! They are retired, disabled or have incomes so low that the standard deduction and exemptions give them no liability at all! Of course, they still pay the various consumption and property taxes - as well as a share of all corporate taxes.

Those with understanding know that businesses actually never pay taxes anyway. They merely act as surrogate tax collectors, building the tax factor into the sales price of their products.

The real problem -- and most politicians, liberal or conservative, will not discuss this -- is that the tax burden collectively is high for one reason: the government has to pay for all the programs the politicians enact.

How did we get to this point?

Government got big at the expense of community and individual self-reliance.for three reasons:

1) as a balance to big business and big labor which preceded it

2) the existence of issues and problems too large to be handled at the town hall level as populations grew

3) unwillingness or inability of individuals and communities to handle locally with volunteers more of the issues which society faces

All of the above is true - but it doesn't make for dicey ratings in these days of sound bite journalism. It is far easier to bang on:

1) the rich (meaning anyone with household income over $80,000 a year - there just aren't that many super-rich) as being uncompassionate greedy oligarchs

2) the poor (meaning anyone with household income under $30,000 per year) as being slothful ner-do-wells looking for a handout and the government to take care of them.

We all know there are a few rich and some poor that fit these stereotypes, but most rich people and most poor people do not. Most rich people I know not only pay taxes, they give back of their time and assets on an individual basis. Most poor people I know are limited by facts and circumstances that have nothing to do with their character or willingness to work - and do not see their condition as a permanent one or the government as the permanent answer.

When both rich and poor start to demand smaller government where feasible and more community based responsibility for legitimate government functions I feel there will be less need for government revenues and thus lower taxes. Unfortunately I do not see this occurring in the immediate future.

P. S. -- on answer to EtobicokeFA -- the figures HFC cited are in spite of the elements you mention. Not reporting income from off shore assets is illegal. All classes have "loophoes" which politicians have enacted to accomplish various purposes -- the Earned Income Credit which benefits many poor people, for instance, was enacted by the Nixon administration to encouurage those on welfare to work. Tax Free Muicipal Bond interest lowers the cost o local governments for financing capital projects with bonds. There are hundreds more and we can certainly argue the wisdom or lack of it for each.

[LarryTheShiveringChipmunk]

Don't forget if you have 3 children, are a single income family, and make as much as I believe $70,000 and you don't pay taxes. (Least one of the guys at work has this benefit. Of course the kids are all girls so he will have his comeupance in a few years)

[EvilPrincess]

Don't forget if you have 3 children, are a single income family, and make as much as I believe $70,000 and you don't pay taxes. (Least one of the guys at work has this benefit. Of course the kids are all girls so he will have his comeupance in a few years)

*cough, cough* <sexist chipmunk>

On the other hand those of us whithout any children, and the closest thing to a dependant is a creaky old house, are paying through the nose on taxes. Being in the true 40% income tax bracket sucks. My tax accountant suggested, 1) make less money 2) have children.

[LarryTheShiveringChipmunk]

hehe we all make fun of him at work...1st cuz he can't produce the son he wants...and 2nd cuz...well he's fearing when they become teens

and yes i am sexy!

[HappyFatChick]

Picture please.....
Let us hotties confirm what you say.....:D

[LarryTheShiveringChipmunk]

no I don't want my mailbox filled while im at the game.

[HappyFatChick]

That hot huh?:shocked:

[LarryTheShiveringChipmunk]

ill fill your....mailbox

[EvilPrincess]

hehe we all make fun of him at work...1st cuz he can't produce the son he wants...and 2nd cuz...well he's fearing when they become teens

and yes i am sexy!

*sexist sexist sexst*

Just remind him, that it is much less likely that a teen age girl will utter the phrase "Hey Watch This", right before doing something terribly stupid, life threatening, or criminal.

[LarryTheShiveringChipmunk]

*humps EP's ankles*

[EvilPrincess]

*humps EP's ankles*

as enjoyable as that is...watch the shoes chipmunk...

[LarryTheShiveringChipmunk]

yes maam!!!

[dan]

If the Usual Suspects do not like the rich maybe they should move to a country where there are none,like Haiti. or North Korea,or Gaza. I like the trickle down economics.,and certain targeted Social Programs..

[dan]

*cough, cough* <sexist chipmunk>

On the other hand those of us whithout any children, and the closest thing to a dependant is a creaky old house, are paying through the nose on taxes. Being in the true 40% income tax bracket sucks. My tax accountant suggested, 1) make less money 2) have children. Shelter your money,fire your accountant.

[Jane]

If the Usual Suspects do not like the rich maybe they should move to a country where there are none,like Haiti. or North Korea,or Gaza. I like the trickle down economics.,and certain targeted Social Programs..
Dan, there WAS no need to start that "Love it or Leave it Crap."

[HappyFatChick]

I agree with "America. Love it or leave it." People who don't love this country have no business being here. Let them go to France like they threatened to (and I hoped they would) after W was re-elected.

[LeedsFeeder]

From the IRS:

*The top 50% pay almost 97% of all income taxes!
* The top 1% pay almost a third!
* Almost 84% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 25% of income
earners.

So much for the stupid, inaccurate theory that the rich don't pay taxes...

Wow, the most ridiculous post yet. I trust you have sponsorship.

[JudgeDredd425]

What about the rumours, that rich people use offshore accounts, and tax loopholes to lower their tax bill and that lower income people don't have access to them?


If you phone Ted Kennedy's office, his people can probably give you the names of a few good accountants that specialize in off-shore banking. If it's good enough him and his family why not the rest of America?

[CleverBomb]

I agree with "America. Love it or leave it." People who don't love this country have no business being here. Let them go to France like they threatened to (and I hoped they would) after W was re-elected.
Where have all the President's supporters gone, anyhow?
In late 2001, it was about 70% of the people. Now it's around 30%.
Some joker noted that these people were very religious, so the obvious explanation for their disappearance is...

The Rapture already happened, and nobody noticed.

-Rusty
(One-legged people must be getting Raptured through my washing machine... I keep finding the socks they Left Behind.)