Illegal Immigrants (with a twist)

[Echoes]

So, Vicente Fox has been up in arms over the US talks of building a border fence and/or sending troops to the border. (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0519immig-fox0519.html) The Mexican government is in the business of producing and distributing a how to guide (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/1/6/155640.shtml) for illegals crossing over into the US. He lauds US immigration reform as a matter of justice. (http://wizbangblog.com/2006/05/23/vicente-fox-to-lobby-for-immigration-reform-in-us.php)

One can clearly see the government of Mexico is doing absolutely nothing to discourage illegal immigration into the US. If anything, they're encouraging it. They have openly supported US amnesty, decried the building of a fence and presence of National Guard troops, and were especially vocal about the proposed measure to criminalize illegal immigrants.

In light of that, take a look at how differently Mexico deals with the Southern border. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13006798/site/newsweek) A quick rundown for those of you who won't click on the link... Basically the Mexican government punishes illegals with up to a two year prison sentence. They have holding prisons where they keep people waiting to be deported. Back in 2001, El Presidente Fox sent thousands of troops down to the Southern border to crack down on illegal immigration. Amnesty? The Mexican government under Fox has given citizenship to about 15000 illegals, a far cry from the 12 million they want us to grant citizenship to.

So then, WHY are we being strong-armed into doing something the very people strong-arming us refuse to do?

[JudgeDredd425]

So, Vicente Fox has been up in arms over the US talks of building a border fence and/or sending troops to the border. (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0519immig-fox0519.html) The Mexican government is in the business of producing and distributing a how to guide (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/1/6/155640.shtml) for illegals crossing over into the US. He lauds US immigration reform as a matter of justice. (http://wizbangblog.com/2006/05/23/vicente-fox-to-lobby-for-immigration-reform-in-us.php)

One can clearly see the government of Mexico is doing absolutely nothing to discourage illegal immigration into the US. If anything, they're encouraging it. They have openly supported US amnesty, decried the building of a fence and presence of National Guard troops, and were especially vocal about the proposed measure to criminalize illegal immigrants.

In light of that, take a look at how differently Mexico deals with the Southern border. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13006798/site/newsweek) A quick rundown for those of you who won't click on the link... Basically the Mexican government punishes illegals with up to a two year prison sentence. They have holding prisons where they keep people waiting to be deported. Back in 2001, El Presidente Fox sent thousands of troops down to the Southern border to crack down on illegal immigration. Amnesty? The Mexican government under Fox has given citizenship to about 15000 illegals, a far cry from the 12 million they want us to grant citizenship to.

So then, WHY are we being strong-armed into doing something the very people strong-arming us refuse to do?


It's not what we (Mexico) say, it's what we (Mexico) do (don't allow illegals in Mexico, but expect the U.S. to allow us whatever we want). I don't think you could find a finer example of hypocrisy. Mexico is very particular about who they let into Mexico and they do not give citizenship at the drop of a sombrero, nor do they tolerate those who violate the territory of Mexico.

Even if you do gain citizenship there are very serious restrictions (the kind that I will add make great sense and that we the U.S. should be doing just as well) Not allowed to vote, ever; not allowed to hold elected office, not able to work in positions were Mexican security could be compromised: No service in the military, no jobs in law enforcement or Mexican public safety positions, etc.; must be able to show financial self-sufficiency with money in the bank. Check out the Mexican Constitution at the link below and pay special attention to the last sentence in Article 33 "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country." You also want to pay close attention from Article 27 to 38.

http://www.ilstu.edu/class/hist263/docs/1917const.html


Further information can be found at: http://www.mexperience.com/liveandwork/immigration.htm

These Mexican parasites want it both ways. They need to be kicked back across the border now and forever more. Just say no to illegals!

[HappyFatChick]

I've been saying this for years: Fox is a filthy, corrupt excuse for a leader. He sends the bottom of the barrel here (prisoners etc) to work and send money
back there. He gets 30 billion/year sent back to his country from illegal aliens who rip off our system and break our laws.

It's that old double standard again.

I don't know what the answer is other than arrests,deportation,close the borders,build the wall/fence/whatever it takes to stop this. We are looking and feeling more like a third world country. Our country can't take 20 illegal aliens plus their families. That could be 60 million more people!:(

I do support and encourage LEGAL immigration. We need the farm workers.

I read this interesting story:

www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories//business/2006/may/29/566644384.html

[EtobicokeFA]

First I am sure surprise that the Mexican president is not offering amnesty to illegal like the Honduran, if they promise to cross over into the states! :(

You should be blaming President Fox for the US illegal problem more that the illegals themselves!

[JudgeDredd425]

First I am sure surprise that the Mexican president is not offering amnesty to illegal like the Honduran, if they promise to cross over into the states! :(

You should be blaming President Fox for the US illegal problem more that the illegals themselves!

There is plenty of blame to go around. However it is up to my own government to protect my nation from the ongoing invasion of illegals. Unfortunately this is something that is not happening due to the extremely high level of corruption within the government (all branches all levels).

The problems that illegals have are their own, and I have no desire to let them make them my own. They can stay where they belong, which is to say where they came from, or they can go someplace else, but not here not ever.

If the corrupt government officials fighting the will of the American people on this issue don't find religion soon on this issue, then they will find they will soon be out of a job and possibly a life.

[OriginalCyn]

I'm in favor of drying up the demand side of the equation for illegals. It's the simplest solution, and the progressives can't cry "racism," because they know that the illegals are being exploited, and that doesn't sit well with their values, either.

Aside from that, I say, "Don't cater to scofflaws (on either side of the supply/demand equation)."

[HappyFatChick]

Now the reports are coming out about how many Americans are getting sick from illegals contaminating food/beverages:

www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2006/05/29/story6.html?f=et181&hbx=e_vert


And how many sex offenders are coming here:

www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50441

[JudgeDredd425]

Another Democrat has been caught on tape telling the truth, Oops..they hate it when that happens. Please see this link for details: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/50thdistrict/20060603-9999-1mi3busby.html

[JudgeDredd425]

Please see the link for some of the latest on the fight against illegal immigration http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=5019859

According to the story the mere presence of some soldiers has made would be illegals turn around. Additionally the piece states that while the numbers of apprehend illegals go down this time of year due to summer heat (fewer attempting to cross), the numbers are even below that average. Again a good sign if actually true. It has been reported in the not too distant past before that the Border Patrol had been ordered to be not so aggressive and make the numbers of arrests that they otherwise could in order to down play the role of the Minutemen group during their campaign. There was an additional story again see the link http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060605/ap_on_re_us/national_guard_arizona discussing the same unit I believe. In the second article it gives a little more detail about the troops in question specifically that they are unarmed. If find that to be more than a little moronic on the government's part. An unarmed military unit is like paramedics and EMT's without an ambulance, or a fire department without fire hoses, or police without radios. They all make taking the appropriate actions that their jobs called for next to impossible to do. The fact is the troops may just need their weapons and to send them out into the field without having them properly equipped is too stupid for words.

[Zandoz]

Ok....here goes.......

1) I am all for sealing our borders by what ever legal means necessary...both our northern and southern borders. As a matter of real security, in light of the status of our relationships with the rest of the world...not because of the desire to keep one or more nationality/race/creed out.

2) I have absolutely nothing against Mexicans themselves (some of you who know me well know how true that is)...or any other nationality/race/creed. Like all groups, there are good, bad, and everywhere between in the lot...Just like the rest of we "Americans".

Having made those statements, a few points keep bouncing around the old noggin:

1)Just as it is ridiculous to debate the merits of mops and sponges for the clean-up, while the pipe is still leaking...so is it ridiculous to debate what to do with the illegals already here, until the border issues are dealt with.

2) Even if there were a plan to be implemented today, the actual sealing of the borders will take years to do. By physical means such as effective walls, fences, seismic detection for tunneling, etc. By human means (people guarding) will require years to ramp up recruitment, background checks, training, facilities, equipment, etc. And all this is after a plan is agreed upon which we're not even close to having.

3) Many see the "march in the troops" approach as a quick fix. What troops? They're half way around the world, with no sign of being back here any time soon. And it totally ignores the legal ramifications of using troops on our soil. Just to make it legal is going to take real substantive action on the parts of politicians from both parties...like that is going to happen any time soon.

4) We've waved the magic wand and there is now massive walls sealing our borders, all manned and equipped. so, what do we do with the 13 million plus illegals. That's more than the population of Illinois...and likely to be more than that by the time the magic walls appear. Deport them all is the frequent cry. So now we need the manpower, equipment, facilities, etc to track down and handle 13 million people who do not want to be found, or to leave.

5) Then there is the issue of how do you tell a legal born here Hispanic person, and the illegal standing next to him/her? We have no national ID system that the citizen can whip out as proof. So now we have to go about proving which of the 13 million we've rounded up are illegal and which are accidental roundups...remember, innocent until proven guilty. That translates to legal until proven illegal. Ummm...what do we do with the 13 million while we're processing them through the system? Prisons you say? I do believe the "Not in my back yard chorus" just got way louder...and the "I'm not paying any more taxes chorus" is chiming right in there.

6) The magic wand has struck again...we've now got all the illegals rounded up, legally verified as illegal, and ready to actually physically be deported...Ummmm...I think Mexico just said something...What do you mean you're not taking them back? Houston....I mean Washington...we have a problem...........



Moral of the story? There are no quick and easy solutions...it's going to be an issue that is with us for a LONG time. And it's going to take a whole lot of compromise and baby steps...and a whole lot of accepting of "less than ideals" or all that is going to get done is arguing.

[HappyFatChick]

Now there are new statistics that prove illegal aliens are causing even more crime than thought. The once beautiful Midwest is now becoming polluted with their crimes. The new crime figures show much more in the Midwest mostly attributed to the invasion of illegal aliens.:(

[JudgeDredd425]

Latest news on the Border Wars see: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/14/D8I84S980.html According to this about another 2000 down leaving about 13.5 million left to go. As the Chinese proverb goes "The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step." Now if they would just do that about 6500 more times really fast around the country we would be cooking with some serious oil.

Comment: Judge, I don't think all 13.5 milion can fairly be lumped together with this particular group of felons. Most are here. however wrongly and in defiance of our laws, for the sake of supporting themselves and their families. Let's try to be a little more balanced, OK?

[Jane]

They, the demoncrats ,will stop at nothing to destroy the white- afro culture of this country IMO. This is why they will keep losing elections..
Dan, you've been asked, quite nicely I might add, by posting of the rules, to refrain from this type of speech.

And it will be noticed that the post (although quoted above) has been duly deleted. Call me a PC junkie if you wish, but fair debate is one thing - and humor rightly used is great. This kind of name-calling educates no one. Per the request of some I've explained my actions this time.

Anyone wishing to file a complaint about other posts is free to PM any moderator. It helps us find it to cite thread and post #

[HappyFatChick]

Amen Judge. I hope they have continued success in rounding up all the illegal aliens - especially the violent ones- and arrest/deport them. Maybe in a few years we can have our country back from these criminals.

[JudgeDredd425]

Latest news on the Border Wars see: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/14/D8I84S980.html According to this about another 2000 down leaving about 13.5 million left to go. As the Chinese proverb goes "The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step." Now if they would just do that about 6500 more times really fast around the country we would be cooking with some serious oil.

Comment: Judge, I don't think all 13.5 milion can fairly be lumped together with this particular group of felons. Most are here. however wrongly and in defiance of our laws, for the sake of supporting themselves and their families. Let's try to be a little more balanced, OK?

Generally speaking criminals are not segregated in jails and prisons. The thief rubs elbows with the rapist who rubs elbows with the confidence man who shares a cell with the burglar who broke into peoples homes. My post was was about facts and the facts have their own balance.

Fact: Each and every person who illegally enters this country or stays beyond the legitimate visa they were issued is a criminal. Period! Not a one has a right to be here, and I don't care what reason they or you wish to hold up to excuse their criminal behavior.

Fact: It is the function of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE), a part of the Federal Department of Homeland Security to prevent when possible and catch when necessary every foreigner who illegally entered our country.

Fact: The aforementioned news article details an ICE round up code named "Operation Return to Sender" in Boston in which approximately 2000 illegals were captured. Almost half that number had been captured at least once before (clearly indicating a need for much harsher punishment and better enforcement).

Fact: While a majority of these, if not all, had extensive criminal records beyond that of a trespasser and a thief. All deserve to be rounded up and imprisoned and ultimately deported as all are criminals.

Fact: Since we are dealing we a problem that cannot be accurately gauged, official estimates on the exact number of illegals runs from as little as currently 10 million to as much as 20 million. The government and press seem to have mostly settled for a figure of 12 to 13 million. I picked a figure, 13.5 million, being slightly more because of government's track record for low-balling bad news numbers to the country. Whatever the real number actually is, they all need to go.

[JudgeDredd425]

More news regarding the impact of illegals invading the United States. See: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/7/2/214834.shtml?s=lh
As if we did not have enough money problems with the current bunch of tax and spend morons on Capitol Hill. Watchout for another attempted give away.

[1300 Class]

The current administration seems to be cutting taxes, whilst increasing spending. N00bs.