This is terrible(terrible = ironic)

[ClashCityRocker]

Shortly before discovering this board, i thought to myself "wow, this is such a particular preference to have, and it's almost impossible to find anyone to talk to about it." having found dimensions, i don't know what to talk about. i will, however, say this. it's hard to be my age in a culture so absorbed with a rigid set of standards concerning beauty and reveal to others that your preferences lie outside of said boundaries. and now i REALLY don't know what to talk about.

chat?

aaron£

[DaBigLadyBug]

well what is it that you find beauty in?
it is hard to explain what it is that you find sexy to others,but in doing so what is it that you have to lose,its kind of funny in way when i think of this that your going through right now,in a way i did the same thing,i have dated men of color for many.......lol.....many years now and it took my friends kind of by suprise that i dated only black men,some of my family still cant get it:( but that is ok,i had old friends that used to say there is a man for you and i would turn around to see a man not of color standing there and i would laugh and say"did his black friend walk away to soon for me to see him?"they never got it,one time with my mom,she said "i don't understand you?"i said "why:confused: "she said"you don't even give the white man a chance?"i said"your right mom,but why is it that i have to,i find a black mens smile amazing,there brown eyes piercing,there black kinky hair wonderful to touch,there color of there skin,its rage is from tea color to dark chocolate"at that point i just smiled and said its what i want,its what i need and it will be what i will have!"
i think from then on she knew,there was no changing me to what she wanted me to have,what others felt i should i have,it was what i wanted!
remember it is you that will have be strong and stand for what you find beauty in!
Much love!

[Carrie]

Shortly before discovering this board, i thought to myself "wow, this is such a particular preference to have, and it's almost impossible to find anyone to talk to about it." having found dimensions, i don't know what to talk about. i will, however, say this. it's hard to be my age in a culture so absorbed with a rigid set of standards concerning beauty and reveal to others that your preferences lie outside of said boundaries. and now i REALLY don't know what to talk about.

chat?

aaron£

a). The Clash rules, as does your screenname.

b). It can always be a bit awkward to jump into a message board when you're new. Just start slow, and make a few little comments here and there... before you know it, people will recognize you and be sincerely happy that you're participating, and you'll feel freer to bring up your own topics. Besides, you're a boy, so you're pretty much golden here. ;)

c). Absolutely; it's definitely challenging to be an "open" FA in this country, and I think particularly for younger men. As they age, many people tend to develop a very empowering "I don't give a rat's ass what you think" attitude about their preferences, thereby enabling them to be open about them, but it's more difficult when you're in your early 20's and trying so desperately to figure out where you belong that you're more likely to latch on to similar social mores as your peers. Mores. That's my degree in Sociology talking, which I'm fairly certain is the first time I've used it since I graduated in 1994.

But I digress. It sounds like you're ahead of the game in that you've embraced your preferences yourself, instead of denying and repressing them. I know you're in a difficult spot right now, but look at it this way - isn't it good that you're on the verge of opening up now about your preference for fat girls, instead of fighting and denying it until you're in your 50's and just too exhausted to do it anymore? This way you can openly adore and enjoy us for your entire life, instead of just a small portion of it.

There are a few really good threads going on about this now - one says something about owning your preferences - that you might want to read to see if they might give you some insight and guidance. There are also some very nice young men here about your age who are "out" FA's (dan ex machina comes to mind, but there are others) that you might enjoy chatting with, to get their perspective on the subject.

Hot damn. Okay, I'm done. I'm going to quiz you later to make sure you read this WHOLE thing. And I might quiz you about the Clash, too, so watch yourself.

Now jump in and participate or I'll have Conrad fix it so you can't look at any pictures here on the site! :D

~Carrie

P.S. The next person to catch me use a jackass buzz word like "empowering" on this board has full permission to smack me with a trout. I'm making my own eyes roll. :rolleyes:

[ClashCityRocker]

i think you just answered every question i might have..ever. thanks for taking the time out to offer your opinion. and feel free to quiz me about the clash. the name's not just for show.

also, ladybug, interesting post. i dig how you gave a whole number of reasons for your preference when talking to your mother. well handled.

i'm off to think of something interesting, witty and well thought out to ask these beautiful ladies.

aaron£

[Jay West Coast]

There are also some very nice young men here about your age who are "out" FA's (dan ex machina comes to mind, but there are others) that you might enjoy chatting with, to get their perspective on the subject.


Me, me, me! <---That's me trying to show my enthusiasm for being an "out" FA.

Actually now that I think of it, I don't really like that term, "out". It makes it sound like I'm gay. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just that I always thought of it more as becoming "honest about the women I like" than "willing to be chased out of Utah by a torch-carrying mob." Just seems to me it's not such a drastic step. But, I suppose that's open to interpretation, too.

In any case, welcome to the board, man. Feel free to shoot me a PM or chat sometime.

Jay West Coast

PS: I like The Clash too, but trivia-wise I doubt I'm up to par with you two...

[Carrie]

Actually now that I think of it, I don't really like that term, "out". It makes it sound like I'm gay. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just that I always thought of it more as becoming "honest about the women I like" than "willing to be chased out of Utah by a torch-carrying mob."

If you have the spare time and oxygen to be using mammoth phrases like this, god bless.



:D:D:D

[wrench13]

Unlike other preferences, say if you liked women who have nipple rings, being a FA means that all can see your
preference very readily. I think that is why many do not choose to reveal that preference. It is a preference in our modern thin driven society that is not looked upon with favor or associated with the media's current notion of sexy.

Like some have said, with maturity, one realizes that trying to conform to societies dictates only makes you less of an individual. The younger FAs should take heart and take that important step as soon in their young lives as they can, since hiding it is pointless and needlessly corrosive to your own true self.

Takes a bit of sand to do but you will be far happier in the long run.

Sermon now over, go forth and date fat girls!

[Jes]

Sermon now over, go forth and date fat girls!


Yes, please, please, please, PLEASE do!

Jes

[Totmacher]

I'm trying, I'm trying! If there was just one or two who weren't taken around here.

[Jes]

I'm trying, I'm trying! If there was just one or two who weren't taken around here.


For me, it's the ones who flake. As in flake out.* I was discussing this with some women at my pottery studio last night and one said there's like a 70% flake rate with people (in any number of situations). Her point, and it's a good one, is that if these people flake on you, then really, you've dodged a bullet. But I don't know--I still feel like I'm taking the bullet, lately. It's just really unpleasant to be on this side of truly bad behavior.


*like, they pursue you and seem good to go, and then bail, or stop responding to you, or god knows what and you're left thinking: what the hell just happened here?

[Carrie]

For me, it's the ones who flake. As in flake out.* I was discussing this with some women at my pottery studio last night and one said there's like a 70% flake rate with people (in any number of situations). Her point, and it's a good one, is that if these people flake on you, then really, you've dodged a bullet. But I don't know--I still feel like I'm taking the bullet, lately. It's just really unpleasant to be on this side of truly bad behavior.


*like, they pursue you and seem good to go, and then bail, or stop responding to you, or god knows what and you're left thinking: what the hell just happened here?

Complete empathy. Good grief, could I tell you a story.... :rolleyes:

[Jes]

Complete empathy. Good grief, could I tell you a story.... :rolleyes:

It hurts and frustrates me more than I can describe. And even I think I need to grow a thicker skin about the topic (and just assume that, say, for every 10 misses there's a hit) but I don't seem to be having much luck getting the rest of me to feel what my head is telling me. I'm not sure how you go about it without getting cynical and just doling out similar bad behavior. I feel like the abyss is beginning to stare back at me already. So if anyone has tips, do share! I want all of my whining to be constructive whining!

Jes

[Tina]

It's difficult, because often it can be difficult to really know a person. I hear stories of men who seem interested and then all of a sudden they disappear. And the glorification of 'playahs' doesn't help a thing. An additional difficulty is the ratio of women to men, and some use that to their advantage.

As much as has been made, historically, about wondering exactly what it is women want, sometimes finding out what men really want seems to be equally elusive.

[moonvine]

*like, they pursue you and seem good to go, and then bail, or stop responding to you, or god knows what and you're left thinking: what the hell just happened here?


I have the answer! It is Kelley's Rule #2 (Kelley being yours truly). This is super secret info I am about to let out (my ex told me he really should kill me after I figured this out:p )

Guys like to be the predator, so we are the prey. Now, when a guy is trying to decide if he is interested in you, he will act more interested than he actually is, in order to keep other guys away from you, while he decides if he is actually interested or not. You know, keeping other predators away from his juicy meal:)

If he decides he's REALLY interested, he just keeps on acting like he has been, so you don't really notice. If he decides he isn't, though, then that's when the "poofing" (as my friends and I call it) happens. Then you're left wondering "what did I do?" Well, you didn't do anything. It was all about him.

(This is a much longer version of "he's just not that into you." But seriously when this stuff happened I used to get really upset and think I was in the wrong, when I'm really not. So I hope it helps someone.

[Jes]

Guys like to be the predator, so we are the prey.




yeah, i'm familiar with this one. so i guess my mistake was giving him my phone number and then, when he called me, picking up the phone to answer? :) haha. I mean, if you want to pursue and always be in charge, you can really only go in a circle. I'm not objecting to your comment; on the contrary, I think you're right. But it's frustrating to have your agency stripped from you. Thing is, I don't really object to him losing interest, but losing it to the point that he can't say: actually, we probably WON'T be getting together this week like I said we would: is just plain crap. I don't care if it's an awkward thing to say, be an adult and say it. Cut and paste it from this posting of mine if you're too lazy to type it, but say it! :)

[moonvine]

yeah, i'm familiar with this one. so i guess my mistake was giving him my phone number and then, when he called me, picking up the phone to answer? :)

No, you don't get it. You didn't make a mistake. That's the whole point:)

[Jes]

No, you don't get it. You didn't make a mistake. That's the whole point:)

Well, I was being facetious.

[moonvine]

Well, I was being facetious.

Sorry, facetiousness is so hard to "read" sometimes:o

I just know *I* used to blame myself and do the "what did I do wrong" thing, and it was very freeing to realize that I didn't do anything wrong at all:)

[Jes]

Sorry, facetiousness is so hard to "read" sometimes:o

I just know *I* used to blame myself and do the "what did I do wrong" thing, and it was very freeing to realize that I didn't do anything wrong at all:)


Yeah, I'm more saying that since I'm not the pursuer, I feel my agency is stripped away and all I can do is pick up the phone or not--if I wanted to not be prey, my choice would've been not to pick up that phone! But you're not going to get anywhere with that mindset. Ah, if only this wasn't the pattern...
And I love how everyone claims not to be into gameplaying, but then leaves you hanging anyway.

Anyway, dude missed out on a lovely afternoon spent with me and Tom of Finland. Ok, now I'm cackling at the thought of that.

[moonvine]

Yeah, I'm more saying that since I'm not the pursuer, I feel my agency is stripped away and all I can do is pick up the phone or not--if I wanted to not be prey, my choice would've been not to pick up that phone! But you're not going to get anywhere with that mindset. Ah, if only this wasn't the pattern...
And I love how everyone claims not to be into gameplaying, but then leaves you hanging anyway.

Anyway, dude missed out on a lovely afternoon spent with me and Tom of Finland. Ok, now I'm cackling at the thought of that.

I guess that part really doesn't bother me.

I think you can choose to be the pursuer, but the majority of men (no matter what they say) want to be the pursuer. But that doesn't mean you can't focus on the others. I really *want* to be pursued, though. I like it;)

Can you tell I'm exceptionally bored at work today?:D

I'm sorry about your bad experience, btw.

[Jes]

I think you can choose to be the pursuer, but the majority of men (no matter what they say) want to be the pursuer. But that doesn't mean you can't focus on the others.
I'm sorry about your bad experience, btw.


you have a point there.

and when i've tried, i've gotten literally no response back whatsoever. I can actually laugh at it, it's so over the top. Oh well. It is what it is.

But thanks for chatting me up about it, and thanks for the condolences. It's just been a bad day so it seems more overarching than it is, probably.

[moonvine]

you have a point there.

and when i've tried, i've gotten literally no response back whatsoever. I can actually laugh at it, it's so over the top. Oh well. It is what it is.

But thanks for chatting me up about it, and thanks for the condolences. It's just been a bad day so it seems more overarching than it is, probably.

Hey, at least you didn't go to a class in what men find attractive and are still dateless, like me:D

[Carrie]

Jes, I think a lot of people are just mixed up, lost, and really don't know what they want. Then they meet someone who's interesting, they start to get involved, and for one reason or another one of them bails. Maybe they lose interest as they get to know the other person, maybe they enjoy the thrill of the chase more than the notion of domestic bliss, maybe their astrological signs aren't compatible - the possibilities are endless.

As to why they're not decent enough to just say "It's over" or "I'm not interested", that's just flat out cowardice. Dress it up however you like - "I didn't want to hurt her feelings" or "I didn't want to make him sad," blah blah. The bottom line is that when you choose the easier route of leaving the other person dangling and wondering what's going on vs. bearing a few minutes of discomfort while being honest and telling the other person you're no longer interested, that's just plain cowardly. And the sad thing is, so many people choose easy over right... that's why this happens so often.

The only thing that has made me feel better, Jes, is the knowledge that I would rather be dumped and have my dignity than be chicken-sh*t and hate to look at myself in the mirror, knowing I behaved horribly. It's small comfort, but it's some.

Whew. Sorry. I'm just a little passionate on this particular topic these days. :rolleyes:

[Jes]

The only thing that has made me feel better, Jes, is the knowledge that I would rather be dumped and have my dignity than be chicken-sh*t and hate to look at myself in the mirror, knowing I behaved horribly. It's small comfort, but it's some.


lady, i hear ya. But i have to wonder--for those who prefer to let actions speak instead of having the dignity to communicate, do you really think they know they've behaved badly/hate looking in the mirror?

Because I wonder.


And one thing that has made ME feel better is that, for a long time, in relationships of all kinds, when I've felt that cold shoulder from someone (and sometimes it's the IMAGINED cold shoulder, I'm sure), I'd back off. Not bail out, but back off. And in the last few years, I've been trying harder to communicate with people in constructive ways. Basically, to be an adult and lay it on the table. If the other party doesn't pick it up, then so be it, but I know that the breakdown of whatever it was didn't happen b/c I got scared and ducked out, hoping the other person would be more aggressive. That's something.

[Carrie]

lady, i hear ya. But i have to wonder--for those who prefer to let actions speak instead of having the dignity to communicate, do you really think they know they've behaved badly/hate looking in the mirror?



Y'know, Jes, I actually do. Not all the time, of course, some people are just fine with behaving badly, but often I think it's a matter of basically okay people being jerks in a particular situation. I try very hard to be a decent person, but I've definitely been on the giving end of poor behavior, and even after apologizing, it still bugs me. So yes, I do think some of them do feel some guilt and remorse. Not all, but some.





And those that don't, well....I hope they enjoy dry heat. :D

[Jay West Coast]

I'd like to beg to differ a little bit, or at least add to what's been said.

Where as I think you are right in saying that generally guys feel more "masculine" and "on their game" when they get to pursue women, this dynamic shouldn't totally strip a woman of her "agency" either.

Guys like to feel like they can sweep a girl off her feet, but in today's modern world, girls have a lot of "play" in the game too. Maybe it's my cultural background, but it seems to me that women are totally legitimate in playing the game too. It's important what hints they drop, if they play hard-to-get and how they do it, and what signals they give. It is so sexy (read, "often irresistibly hot") when a girl knows exactly how to pull this off. When I grew up they called this "when her game is tight".

So, I figure, it's a two-way street. Just the roles typically are different for guys and girls.

My two cents. Don't spend it all in one place.

Jay West Coast

[Carrie]

So, I figure, it's a two-way street. Just the roles typically are different for guys and girls.



Absolutely, hence my use of "people" and "person" instead of "him/her". I don't think it's at all helpful to turn this type of subject into a men vs. women thing.

It's an equal opportunity thing -- all people have the potential to suck, no matter who you are, where you're from, or what you look like!

What a species. :)

[Tad]

Yeah, I'm more saying that since I'm not the pursuer, I feel my agency is stripped away and all I can do is pick up the phone or not--if I wanted to not be prey, my choice would've been not to pick up that phone! But you're not going to get anywhere with that mindset. Ah, if only this wasn't the pattern...
And I love how everyone claims not to be into gameplaying, but then leaves you hanging anyway.


Not all guys are into the predator thing (at least I certainly never was). I know many are, and figuring out which is which, and which you actually want, are both hard things. (don't ignore the 'which you want' part, because guys who are not predators are not going to have that aggresive, edgy, dangerous thing going on that so many women seem to dig).

If you are going to deal with guys doing the predator thing, and really want to have more power in dealing with them, go get a copy of "The Rules" which sums up centuries of wisdom on how to play hard to get, and hence enthrall a predator. Make no mistake, ridiculous as these seem, these sort of 'rules' work. There are similar techniques that guys can use (apparently there are web sites decicated to this, but I forget what the technique is called).

On the other hand, if you don't want to play that particular game, then you need to get good at sniffing out the predators, ignoring them, and finding the less obvious guys who want to be friends and peers.

-Ed

[moonvine]

Not all guys are into the predator thing (at least I certainly never was). I know many are, and figuring out which is which, and which you actually want, are both hard things. (don't ignore the 'which you want' part, because guys who are not predators are not going to have that aggresive, edgy, dangerous thing going on that so many women seem to dig).

I know I dig it (well, not necessarily *dangerous*, but it is pretty much a requirement for me for the guy to have enough self-confidence to approach me first. Assertive, if not aggressive).


On the other hand, if you don't want to play that particular game, then you need to get good at sniffing out the predators, ignoring them, and finding the less obvious guys who want to be friends and peers.


Well, speaking for myself, while I like having guys as friends - one of my best friends is a guy, though he's married - that's not what I'm actively seeking right now. I'm looking for a life partner. So it seems sensible to do my looking amongst those who are looking for the same thing.

[Jes]

Not all guys are into the predator thing (at least I certainly never was). I know many are, and figuring out which is which, and which you actually want, are both hard things. (don't ignore the 'which you want' part, because guys who are not predators are not going to have that aggresive, edgy, dangerous thing going on that so many women seem to dig).

If you are going to deal with guys doing the predator thing, and really want to have more power in dealing with them, go get a copy of "The Rules" which sums up centuries of wisdom on how to play hard to get, and hence enthrall a predator. Make no mistake, ridiculous as these seem, these sort of 'rules' work. There are similar techniques that guys can use (apparently there are web sites decicated to this, but I forget what the technique is called).

On the other hand, if you don't want to play that particular game, then you need to get good at sniffing out the predators, ignoring them, and finding the less obvious guys who want to be friends and peers.

-Ed

I had to read The Rules for a class on women and legal representation when I was getting my 2nd masters. i bought it, read it, and promptly thr it in the trash (this, from a librarian, says something. We don't tend to like to throw out books. but I really couldn't even imagine giving it to a friend). I kinow what you're saying, and it would seem I'm the ultimate NON game player. I understand what Jay is saying too, and i guess I'm not going to fit into his game, either. That doesn't mean I don't flirt, or whatever, but running hot and cold JUST to run hot and cold (i.e., the Rules) isn't me.

Well, whatever. I could say more but I've hit the point of the discussion where I just find it sad. But I'm certainly interested to continue reading everyone's comments.

Jes

[Michelle]

An internet friend mailed me the book "The Rules" when my first boyfriend after my marriage ended our relationship. I read it and felt the same way you did, Jes. I still have it because I can't even throw trash books away, but the book really rubbed me the wrong way. It just all seemed so dishonest. Sort of like David DeAngelo struck me. Lots of games.

[Jes]

ps: i'm not so much advocating games or no games, or chasing or being chased or hot and cold vs. cold and hot, I'm just saying if you tell me you're interested in me, and then you change your mind, tell me you've changed your mind. Don't get me riled up and then leave me hanging. It's not polite and it's not going to help your karma.

and that goes for all of you, too! Grrrrr! JES SMASH! ;)