Dealing with Loss

[DisenchantedDreamer]

Hello. I just wanted to share a quick story with everyone and get a different perspective about how I feel or how I should feel. I posted to the weight board a few months back about a situation that was occurring in my life, regarding a girl I met online in a bbw chat room. We became very close and enjoyed talking and even met 3 times (she lives 4 hours away). Well, to make a long story short, she told me early on about hating herself because of her size and I let her know that I accepted and even preferred her at her larger size (260 lbs). So, she was in the midst of her doctor appointments for the gastric bypass surgery and let me know that it was going to happen this fall. I did my best to convince her otherwise, but never was completely unsupportive. I guess I felt that it might never happen and I just always put it out of my mind when we talked. Well, she just had the surgery last week and it was very hard for me to deal with emotionally. She does finally understand about my preference and everything, but we are still trying to continue a relationship, although it is very difficult for me to do at this time. I feel very terrible and selfish about my feelings, but they just won't go away. I cannot fathom a lifetime of restrictions and limitations for her and the physical changes that are occurring right now. It just overwhelms me to think about it and I'm not sure that it's what I want. I never imagined I would be in a situation like this. When I've dated girls in the past, they have all had an acceptance of themselves that I have highlighted and helped them feel more comfortable. I just feel sick that this surgery has actually affected my feelings. I feel so shallow, but my insides are torn apart by this and I actually feel better when not talking to her. She consistently brings up all of these things related to the surgery and, despite trying to listen and be there for her, it is so hard to deal with. So, I don't know where to go from here.

[missaf]

Thanks for sharing. You're anything but shallow for exploring your feelings and trying to make sense out of them. Keep in mind, feelings are just feelings, and you govern your body, your choices and your relationships with your mind most of all.

[BBWMoon]

I feel the heartbreak in your words. It also seems that you're feeling guilty for not being as receptive as you thought you would be, or at all. It is sad, for both of you, however, you can't mask your emotions. I have a dear Friend (FA) who is grieving over someone who lost a lot of weight through WLS. She's fine, I believe, but he feels that he has lost a whole person.

I worry about that too, about FA Friends who I'm close to changing their feelings for me. In a way, I keep them at arms length so I don't get hurt.
Yeah, I know... bad choice...

But seeing my Friend so sad... It's as though he's victimized.

I suppose being an FA, you must make your own choices, and be true to yourself. If you love someone and admire them as well because of their abundance... but they choose to lose weight, do you love them less? Do you stop loving them all together? I would hope not. But if you're very torn, and the emotional ties disperse, what DO you do?

I would say, just be honest through it all. Even if it hurts you more in the beginning, it will hurt less people later.

I wish you (and your friend) the best...


~Allie

[toni]

I am sorry, I am not going to be as sympathetic as the previous posters. Its the same type of feeling a man would have if his girlfriend became fat. He cares for her, but he is just not happy with her being fat. It is a very shallow feeling. You should care about her for the person she is and the times you have shared together.
FAT or THIN she is the same person she was before the surgery. :rolleyes:

[fatlane]

Hello. I just wanted to share a quick story with everyone and get a different perspective about how I feel or how I should feel. I posted to the weight board a few months back about a situation that was occurring in my life, regarding a girl I met online in a bbw chat room. We became very close and enjoyed talking and even met 3 times (she lives 4 hours away). Well, to make a long story short, she told me early on about hating herself because of her size and I let her know that I accepted and even preferred her at her larger size (260 lbs). So, she was in the midst of her doctor appointments for the gastric bypass surgery and let me know that it was going to happen this fall. I did my best to convince her otherwise, but never was completely unsupportive. I guess I felt that it might never happen and I just always put it out of my mind when we talked. Well, she just had the surgery last week and it was very hard for me to deal with emotionally. She does finally understand about my preference and everything, but we are still trying to continue a relationship, although it is very difficult for me to do at this time. I feel very terrible and selfish about my feelings, but they just won't go away. I cannot fathom a lifetime of restrictions and limitations for her and the physical changes that are occurring right now. It just overwhelms me to think about it and I'm not sure that it's what I want. I never imagined I would be in a situation like this. When I've dated girls in the past, they have all had an acceptance of themselves that I have highlighted and helped them feel more comfortable. I just feel sick that this surgery has actually affected my feelings. I feel so shallow, but my insides are torn apart by this and I actually feel better when not talking to her. She consistently brings up all of these things related to the surgery and, despite trying to listen and be there for her, it is so hard to deal with. So, I don't know where to go from here.


Sounds like you want to end the relationship. It's not what you wanted, anymore. You weren't married, so you can break it off without worrying about the house or the kids. I know that's brutal, but you'll be able to rationalize "Hey, at least I'm not THAT bad", regardless of what you decide to do.

[Jes]

Personally, I think feeling overwhelmed and worrying about a 'lifetime of limitations and restrictions and changes' may be the wrong way to think about this. You'd prefer she hadn't had the surgery, fair enough. But, you like her. Even without the surgery, it sounds like there were deep issues (her dislike of her own body--think of it this way: you may imagine it would be hard to be with someone who had intake restrictions, but it's also hard being with someone who doesn't like some aspect of herself. My point is that all relationships have these stresses on them at one time or another). And not that many things change overnight even if we feel they do. I'd imagine her weight will come off, but lots of people here say it comes back. And I've also heard of WLS patients who, after a transitional period, can taper off the limiting and restricting. So my point is that you never know. None of us knows what will happen in any of our relationships. We may think we do, but we can't know. We can hope. And we can take things day by day and reflect periodically to see if we're still satisfied. That's what I'd encourage you to do, since you asked. Don't make any big decisions now, when not all that much has changed, really. You're projecting far into the future. There's a dutch saying I think about A LOT: maak je geen zorgen over; het loopt toch anders (Don't get too worried about it, it will end up totally different anyway). I'm not saying it'll be better, I'm just saying it'll probably be different than what your upset, overhwelmed mind can imagine. If it's not yet broke, maybe don't fix it?
Then again, if you already felt unhappy with it, and this has the 'last straw' feel to it, dump her nicely and get out. But know why your'e doing it (i.e., something in the past or in the now, not some phantom in the future).

And good luck. We can all of us use it.

[LillyBBBW]

I don't think that you need to feel guilty at all about your feelings. She IS a different person now than the one you met. Her physical appearance has changed, emotionally she's changed, mentally she's changed, conversationally she's changed. She has the right to choose what makes her happy, why does that mean that you are not supposed to or that you have to be dragged along with her if it's not what you want? If she shaved her head and joined the Hare Krishnas or had a sex change operation would you stay with her then? You have no reason to feel guilty or become a prisoner to her new lifestyle if it's not where you want to go. She did what she needed to do. That took a lot of courage. Get some of your own and move on.

[AnnMarie]

I don't think that you need to feel guilty at all about your feelings. She IS a different person now than the one you met. Her physical appearance has changed, emotionally she's changed, mentally she's changed, conversationally she's changed. She has the right to choose what makes her happy, why does that mean that you are not supposed to or that you have to be dragged along with her if it's not what you want? If she shaved her head and joined the Hare Krishnas or had a sex change operation would you stay with her then? You have no reason to feel guilty or become a prisoner to her new lifestyle if it's not where you want to go. She did what she needed to do. That took a lot of courage. Get some of your own and move on.

Amen!!

I understand the idea of "love XX for their insides", but in reality, part of why we partner with people, and don't just stop at friendship, IS physical attraction. She's changed drastically, and as Lilly said, not only physically, but in every other way.

She wasn't happy, and has now wholeheartedly embraced a new way to be happy. If it's not what you want in your life, then you shouldn't have to make it fit.

Love what you had, respect it for what it was, and allow yourself to move on to someone who is already happy in their own skin.

[swamptoad]

I don't know what the logical thing would be to do because I am simply not "you." But I do know that the noble, and "gentlemanly" thing to do would be to open up and you learn from her and she learns from you. You stated that you still want to give the relationship an effort but you are timid to try because of the changes she is getting involved in. You have to reflect on anything and everything, even stuff beyond her outward appearance that you like or have grown to simply love and adore and ask yourself. Think to yourself the past is history, the future is a mystery, and today is a "gift" in which we call the "present." Now, everyone day to day accepts challenges or declines challenges. You need to think both with your heart and logically with "your brain." Don't just stop "cold turkey" and quit talking to her. Let her understand your feelings and try to understand her feelings as well. When you get the news that she's had WLS and you kept telling yourself that it would never happen-- Well there's a "shocker." Convincing someone not to do something as drastic as having WLS (let alone the very scary *I think* Gastric Bypass Surgery-- well lets just say this is an effort of convincing that I think can be quite "difficult." ...especially if they have had the idea planted in their brain for quite some time. Sometimes it takes a whole lot of initiative to just research along with them...(and I am sure that she had done her research beforehand) so that the both of you have the oppor-tunity to explore the pros and cons together. Well..."surprise, surprise"....she has had the surgery *plus she has grown to understand you a bit better too* Hmmmmmm..... now she can either face her future with you or without you. I don't know exactly how long the two of you have known each other for but if you care enough about her to share your "quick story" and ask for a reply with a different perspective...I would think that her personality is not completely gone and destroyed by the WLS. Nonetheless, she will have quite a time dealing emotionally, physically, and psychologically with the change of lifestyle that is already ahead of her, as would anybody who would undergo WLS. So, you can be furthermore supportive or unsupportive. I would rather be neutral and let you think for "yourself" about this one. I am sure that she has friends and family to support her.

Good luck in your decision-making!

Sincerely, Swamptoad (Jeff)

[lady of the dark]

You're acting like you're the victim here. Well I have news for you: you're not. Have you ever considered her feelings? Can you imagine how terrible it must be if you are fat and you don't want to be? I myself hate my body (well okay, hating might be overstating it, it's more like I dislike my body) for being to skinny. All those bones sticking out, well you get te picture. But being fat when you don't want to be is much much worse. It's unhealthyer (we may pretend it's not, but really, being fat isn't very healthy) And then you other people judging you. Believe me, I've been fat myself . For myself I didn't mind being fat, I actually kind of liked it. (allthough I am an ffa) But I really hated it that everyone was judging me about it, and I wasn't even that big. I mean, it must have been terrible for the poor girl! She even went to the lengths of weight loss surgery, wich is, as you know, scary and risky. I think she is a very brave girl and you should be proud of her instead of feeling sad. After all, just like everyone else is saying, it is the inside that counts, and she strikes me as a very brave and strong woman. I'm in a kind of same situation myself, my boyfriend is fat and he is on a diet. Allthough I would miss his belly terribly, I'm supporting him because I want him to be happy.
You may seem shallow in your post, but I don't believe you are. If you were, you would never have posted this in the first place. Maybe your doubts don't even have to do with her changing appearance, but more with her changing on the inside. Maybe she is not who you thought she'd be. Maybe you are frightened with her being stronger and more self conscious then you imagined. You are blaming the weight loss for the doubts you have, but maybe they spring from something else. Am I right?

[voidhead]

Blah blah blah if you don't find yourself attracted to her any more then there is obviously no point in continuing the relationship. Life isn't a fairytale and attraction isn't entirely emotional. Of course that plays into it but someone who you love, but do not love physically is a friend. I am friends with a lot of girls who I love, but do not love physically.

If a man who prefers skinny women dumps his girlfriend because she gained 50 Ibs, it is understandable. He is no longer attracted to her. He probably enjoyed the idea of her being in shape and active and is turned off by the gain.

Converesly an FA isn't wrong in leaving a girl because she lost a drastic amount of weight. I'm sure she was insecure and needed to do that mentally (or thought she did), but that's obviously not where he's at mentally. He was attracted to a part of herself that she hated.

Continuing the relationship is obviously pointless if you're no longer attracted to her. But be careful how you end things obviously...

[gangstadawg]

if you dont find her attractive then leave. i bet money if she didnt find you attractive she would leave you or cheat on you on the lowkey. love isnt a charity.

[LurkingBBW]

if you dont find her attractive then leave. i bet money if she didnt find you attractive she would leave you or cheat on you on the lowkey. love isnt a charity.
How insensitive. Well, I'll bet money that there are people in this world who love others for who they are - not just for the size of their bodies.To some - love is without boundaries.Yes, obviously attraction is a factor but, it is possible for someone to love someone who is not their specific body type. That response was uncalled for and from someone who does not have enough life experience to make a comment like that. I know far more women who are with and dated men who are not their physical types but, they love their men for who they are. On the other hand, men are far more fixed in their "types" than most women.:mad:

[gangstadawg]

How insensitive. Well, I'll bet money that there are people in this world who love others for who they are - not just for the size of their bodies.To some - love is without boundaries.Yes, obviously attraction is a factor but, it is possible for someone to love someone who is not their specific body type. That response was uncalled for and from someone who does not have enough life experience to make a comment like that. I know far more women who are with and dated men who are not their physical types but, they love their men for who they are. On the other hand, men are far more fixed in their "types" than most women.:mad:ok lets say a woman got a sex change operation should the womans boyfriend still stay with her and learn to love the person not the outer appearance?

[LurkingBBW]

ok lets say a woman got a sex change operation should the womans boyfriend still stay with her and learn to love the person not the outer appearance?

Sorry. You cannot compare a sex change to someone losing a lot of weight. Not even close. All of the same body parts are there with a loss of weight - only some parts are smaller. A sex change is a whole different ballgame.I just think that what you said was incredibly insensitive.

[Egbert Souse]

I feel a little guilty about my own kneejerk response to all this but if nobody else is gonna bring it up...

Isn't that a little drastic an action to take at 260, even assuming she's 5' tall or under.
Is it a health issue or a cosmetic/self-esteem issue?

If it's the latter (especially if she's young), i can relate to your alienation.

[toni]

no it isnt drastic...260 is a still a load to carry around...she should be alienated/broken up with cause she choose to take steps to better her life? come on, if he cared about her, he would support her

[Tina]

I disagree with that guilt trip.

Yes, 260 can be a lot to carry around, but where is the bit about how she is in such ill health, how she has tried everything, about how her mobility is impaired -- all of the things that should be in place at least to a degree before considering such a drastic measure. Hell, at 260 I was healthy as a horse and could dance for hours. We hear nothing about how she's having a hard time with her health. I'm not saying she should be happy with her weight -- it wouldn't be my business to say such a thing. But absent information about negative health and mobility, it seems she is doing it for cosmetic reasons.

One would think that if one were with a partner who was living through mobility impairment, a lot of physical pain, ill health, and other life-constricting issues that they would likely be supportive at least to a degree. But in this case, if the guy is against the surgery, I can't really blame him.

I am aware that we don't even have a fraction of the real story, but too many get this surgery out of fear of what *might* happen, instead of using it as a measure of last resort. Next to last being the old fashioned, hard as hell, way (and often assuming surgery is easy, which it is not).

[LillyBBBW]

You hit the nail on the head Tina. I have been sick to my stomach because I have come across my third "last entry" of a woman who was only 230 pounds. She was undergoing WLS on March 23 vowing she would update in her blog. Nine months later and still no word. This is a girl who would ramble on in her blog at least twice a week and her last entry was March 9 of this year. :(

It's scary that another pudgy college aged kid on that site has been fighting for over a year going from doctor to doctor trying to convince someone to give her this surgery and when she finally found one, her insurance turned her down. She is not eligable for this surgery but she wants it so badly because she is desperately unhappy, not because she is physically challenged in some way. The eerie silence from that other girl's site hasn't deterred her at all. She's practically suicidal and doesn't care if she dies on the table. :doh: It's madness.

Many people I know have had this surgery and it's been great for them but it's disturbing how people believe it's the cure for everything in life from chronic depression to a broken heart. On the surface this guy's story may sound like someone who's insensitive and unsupportive but there may be even more to the story than meets the eye. I would stand by someone I love if he were going through something but if his choice of treatment turned out to be street narcotics or alcohol that would be the dealbreaker for me.

[toni]

sorry, its not a guilty trip, its the truth

260 is not a healthy weight...you might have felt fine at that weight, that doesnt mean it was healthy...we are big and we are beautiful, however we do have to be realistic, FAT is NOT healthy...insurance companies do not put out $40,000 plus for surgeries that are not needed...obviously her doctors and insurance company felt she had a problem that needed to be corrected...the surgery is a tool in weight loss, it is the last resort...however the last resort doesnt have to mean you are 700 lbs and about to die


now that aside, if this man cared about her, he would stand by her either way...obviously he was just interested in her body

[Tina]

Yes, we all have our dealbreakers, don't we?

Very scary, the stories you tell. I was just reading that Medi-Care is expanding the number of WLS surgeries they will pay for for younger people, and limiting the number for older, as it's riskier, they have discovered.

Too many people are cavalier about it, and see it as a quick fix and the answer to their problems -- as you say, many of those problems are unrelated. And then, after they've found a way to eat around the surgery, if they haven't had other complications, they end up gaining weight, because their true problems haven't been addressed. And if they have eating disorders, which many will, it's just that much worse. Bleh.

Toni, it reads like a guilt trip. And while it might be *your* truth, or your perception of truth, it is not the Ultimate Truth. And hell, insurance companies put out TONS of money for WL surgeries that are not needed. Are you kidding? Yes, while I felt great, some others might not, but there should be very serious situations in a person's health for anyone to consider the surgery, IMO, and it's just not that way for too many people.

I think the surgery can help some, but only those who have tried everything else, who do not have eating disorders, who do it for the correct reason, and who have taken the time to educate themselves about it.

FAT is NOT healthy...

I find blanket statements to be ill-advised and usually inaccurate.

[fatlane]

SICKNESS is NOT healthy.

I am sure of that. I have the DICTIONARY on my side!

[toni]

I find blanket statements to be ill-advised and usually inaccurate.

If you think carrying a couple hundred extra pounds around is healthy, who am i to argue? :rolleyes:

[Tina]

A couple hundred extra pounds? If you're talking 260 then what, the woman should be weighing 60 lbs? I think she's got a far better chance of being healthy at 260 than at 60.

And your blanket statement was that FAT is NOT healthy. Well, guess what? Sometimes it is. Sometimes being too thin is unhealthy. I'm not explaining myself because first, I shouldn't have to school you, and second, I doubt it would do any good anyway.

FLO, I believe you might be onto something there.;)

[fatlane]

I am on to my CHAIR. I am sitting ON it. Oh yeah.

And some people were built to hold that shelf. they do just fine. There's always the old granny lady who got to 110 by smoking cigars and swilling bourbon every day. There are people who survive HIV with no problems at all. Exceptions.

But how much body mass makes survival exceptional and how much is something we're designed to carry? Australian Lord may take exception here, but I see a conspiracy in insurance numbers to define a majority of Americans as obese without taking into account how we've gotten physically bigger and healthier since those tables were first made. OK, there's lots more fat in the land, but life expectancies have increased along with the additional weight.

If the additional weight isn't leading to edema, heart congestion, or diabetes, then it's not unhealthy. If it is, then it is. But people can get all kinds of crazy crap that fat people get without needing to be fat to get it. My dad's got type II Diabetes - adult onset. He doesn't smoke, drink, or go nuts at the pasta line, so it's likely genetics. I have naturally high cholesterol that needs medicinal management and I've been "skinny" most my life, having recently "filled out nicely", but the cholesterol was there before I moved into the average range of weight for my height.

There is some question in weight-related diseases whether or not the weight is a contributing factor or a symptom. SOME. Not all. Sumo wrestlers' knees blow out because one, they're big, and, two, they smack each other around and really strain that joint.

Part of being fat is deciding what's healthier: maintaining an active, positive lifestyle and not stressing about the weight, or dieting/gaining and straining the heart muscles and undergoing additional mental stress. Some folks can diet and keep the weight off. Most others, and I think the number is over 90%, yo-yo back to where they started within 3 years. How much of hert disease is fat related and how much is dieting related has yet to be sorted out because it's unpopular to stand up for fatness. And it's not like people would believe a study sponsored by a fast food company showing diets were more dangerous than keeping the weight on...

[LillyBBBW]

If you think carrying a couple hundred extra pounds around is healthy, who am i to argue? :rolleyes:

Maybe not as healthy as having my abdomen seared and my stomach closed off with a band or some staples. Not to mention having my intestines detatched and reapplied. Oh boy, that will really make my body healthy! Thanks for clearing that up.

[Tina]

As any idiot knows, being too fat is unhealthy, just as being too thin is. Where that "too" lies varies from person to person. Any doctor will tell you that you're better off being a *bit* fat than underweight especially if you're elderly -- those studies were confirmed years ago. I had just expected common sense to kick in, though obviously it did not. So, for your edification, toni: we *all* need some fat on our bodies. *Some* fat is good. To say that FAT is UNHEALTHY is just as ignorant as saying FAT is HEALTHY. One could very easily make a case for either extreme, without touching the gray area in the middle at all -- and it's in that gray area where the truth lies.

Anyway, did you just come here to tell us we're all unhealthy?:rolleyes:

[Egbert Souse]

sorry, its not a guilty trip, its the truth

260 is not a healthy weight...you might have felt fine at that weight, that doesnt mean it was healthy...we are big and we are beautiful, however we do have to be realistic, FAT is NOT healthy...insurance companies do not put out $40,000 plus for surgeries that are not needed...obviously her doctors and insurance company felt she had a problem that needed to be corrected...the surgery is a tool in weight loss, it is the last resort...however the last resort doesnt have to mean you are 700 lbs and about to die


now that aside, if this man cared about her, he would stand by her either way...obviously he was just interested in her body

1. The health risk of 260 is relative to several factors not provided in this discussion.

2. I'm REALLY sick of insurance companies being brought into these arguments. They're under INTENSE pressure to remain profitable.and, as one of the big ones is a major part of my retirement savings, i applaud the effort. Actuarial science is a great thing but it shouldn't be (nor should it be EXPECTED to be) the arbiter of any wisdom.

3. If you ask me (hypothetical situation, of course), this is more about getting too emotionally involved from afar than about any health issue

[toni]

Anyway, did you just come here to tell us we're all unhealthy?:rolleyes:

not at all, it is a reality though
we choose to live our lives at this weight, we are comfortable and we feel beautiful...we are fully aware of the risks, just as this girl is aware of the risks of her surgery...we should not condemn people for having this surgery if thats what they choose to do...no matter what weight they are, we have no right...maybe i can carry around 350 lbs a lot better then she can carry around her 260, it is not for me to say

now what this thread is about is a man saying he does not like this woman anymore because she choose to have this surgey...to me thats superficial...if you care for someone, you should care for them no matter what they look like
...if thats a guilt trip in your eyes, then it is what it is

[Tina]

No one is condemning anyone, other than you condemning this man for having the feelings he has.

To say that it appears that she is having the surgery for superficial reasons is not condemnation, it's criticism. There is a difference. Fact is, again, we do not have all the information, and *most* of us recognize that, but have also discussed the general cavalier attitude of many who get the surgery to try to solve other, unrelated, or only tangentially-related problems.

now what this thread is about is a man saying he does not like this woman anymore because she choose to have this surgey...to me thats superficial...if you care for someone, you should care for them no matter what they look like
...if thats a guilt trip in your eyes, then it is what it is

You have just characterized this man's feelings very unfairly, I think. You might want to go back and read his actual words, which convey just how torn up over it he is, and not that he just "does not like this woman anymore because she choose [sic] to have this surgery."

Are you actually really reading this thread?

[missaf]

I seem to gleam the fact of this thread to be that we all agree that most people undergo WLS because of the social deviant behavior we see as the skinny world and the sometimes cure of WLS rather than accepting their size.

Everyone's entitled to make their choice, but I think what most of us are saying is it had better be an informed choice.

[DisenchantedDreamer]

First, I would like to thank everyone for their responses. I couldn't have asked for better advice. I honestly was not looking for anyone to absolve me for my feelings or to have a more clear conscience. I truly want to understand myself better and I think I really do now that I have digested all of these responses. I do have some updates and more information to clear up my situation. I met Jessica about 7 months ago. A few days into us talking, she informed me of a low carb diet that she was on, but did not mention that she was setting up for the surgery. I was not informed of that until about 2 months into getting to know her. Initially, she told me about her weight and all that, and her biggest reason for dieting was health reasons and for "being so fat." She had just come out of a long term relationship with an older man and it ended on a sour note. She moved in with him across the country and found him with another woman after some months of them being together. In the beginning, I was mostly there to help her through her pain about that relationship and we just ended up kind of falling for each other through the initial friendship that we had. I did let her know about my preference for women and she really never remarked about it. We had a few discussions in the later summer after we saw each other face to face, but she still did not understand me and why I was so upset about the upcoming surgery. Personally, I did not know why I was so upset either, maybe because this was the first time I had to deal with something so life altering and I felt that it was unnecessary. The fact that she would not even be in control of her own intake also was disturbing. I did my homework about the surgery also and was disconcerted about the pain that she would be going through and would face after the surgery also. She did come through the surgery okay. About a week after the surgery, she confided in me that she felt that it was a mistake because of the pain she was feeling and the fact that she was unable to even drink water without feeling some sort of internal discomfort. I have been there for her and have really stayed away from mentioning my displeasure about the surgery. I mean, it has already happened and she feels bad enough about it, so why make it worse? The other day she also told me that she is on track to lose exactly what the doctors told her she would, although she says she "doesn't want to be that small." On Thanksgiving day, she stated that she felt terrible because she wasn't able to eat anything that she wanted to. Emotionally, she has expressed that she has been depressed and upset because she never leaves the house, but it's not due to the surgery, she has been cleared to drive & do all her normal activties again. She is scared because she has absolutely no appetite at all within a month after having the surgery, and has not even been able to keep down or even attempt food or protein drinks for long periods of time. I am there to just support her and help her through this right now, because I realize that she is truly afraid. Honestly, she has been very understanding with me since the surgery. She realizes that I am who I am and she keeps information about her weight loss at a minimum. I still feel kind of bad that I responded the way that I did and made her ashamed of something that she wanted to do, but we have come to terms with it. So, I don't know. I am not trying to be the poster boy for the dangers, frustrations, or lack of desired results of this surgery. I just know that from this experience, it is not turning out as she expected. Empathetically, it is killing me because when someone you care about is going through physical and emotional pain and suffering, it gets to you too. So, to those who said I was shallow or unaccepting, I do not believe that. I have stood by her despite my personal feelings and emotional hurting. I guess that some of you were right about one thing: there are issues beyond the weight that are definitely present and that might be where the difficulty of maintaining a relationship lies... Thanks again everyone. I couldn't have asked for a more understanding group!

[Tina]

DD, I'm sorry to hear things are going as they are for your girlfriend. Has she contacted her doctor about all of this? She must get some vitamins and sustainence in her, and she must get up and walk and exercise at the appropriate time. Did she really research the surgery, and does she know what should be done? Because the proscribed list of things that she must do aren't suggestions, they are absolutely necessary.

Sounds like you are a good guy. My hat's off to you for being there for her; I hope it all works out fine and also that you are able to be content, whatever you decide, ultimately.

I seem to gleam the fact of this thread to be that we all agree that most people undergo WLS because of the social deviant behavior we see as the skinny world and the sometimes cure of WLS rather than accepting their size.

Well, kinda. For me it goes beyond accepting one's size. For someone at 260 *without* health problems, yes. For someone *with* health problems, you can accept your body but still want to lose weight to improve health, pain, mobility, etc. That is where I am at, and have been for a while now. My weightloss has nothing to do with cosmetics and everything to do with health, and I know I'm not alone in this.. But yes, overall, good point.

Everyone's entitled to make their choice, but I think what most of us are saying is it had better be an informed choice.

Agreed!

[jellibellie]

I think this might all boil down to a depth of feelings that is never developed. Some people have a low tolerance for staying in a relationship when things start getting a bit tough. When one loves deeply, the ability to tolerate the bumps and sometimes craters in the road only makes them hold onto their special person tighter. Many find themselves even deeper in love having gotten through the rough spots.

Many wonder why they are living such loveless lives. Perhaps, for some it may have to do with bailing out when things are less than perfect, which takes you out of relationships before the actual process of achieving a real love that grows and becomes more steadfast. Love is hard work, but it is worth it!:bow:

[LillyBBBW]

A friend of mine got married about 8 years ago. For her bachlorette party we went bar hopping on a Friday night and I ended up meeting an attractive guy who was very interested in me. We chatted for quite some time and my friends were elated that I had met someone and were giving me the thumbs up signal from across the bar. He was loads of laughes. VERY charming but what I found out from him was that at his current age of 25 he had 5 children by 5 different women. Three of them were barely two years old and born within months of each other.

Speaking only for myself I found that this bit of trivial yet important information spoke volumes on so many levels. It's wisdom to be able to make an informed decision on just how far you can go with someone based on what you know about yourself. You can't enter into a relationship thinking that you can change someone. You can only change yourself. In a "relationship at all cost" situation you may find the cost to be too high.

I wish you well whatever the outcome in this relationship is DD. :kiss2:

[Egbert Souse]

Speaking only for myself I found that this bit of trivial yet important information spoke volumes on so many levels. It's wisdom to be able to make an informed decision on just how far you can go with someone based on what you know about yourself. You can't enter into a relationship thinking that you can change someone. You can only change yourself. In a "relationship at all cost" situation you may find the cost to be too high.

I wish you well whatever the outcome in this relationship is DD. :kiss2:

Excellent observation, Lilly.
And i love the quote.

[gangstadawg]

well after reading his message seems to be still some problems. wells make me glad i dont have a girlfriend so i can worry about some more important things like MONEY! i can stand to be with out a girlfriend but i cant stand being with out money. i know im gonna get a speech saying money doesnt mean happiness.

[Tina]

No, it doesn't. But it sure doesn't hurt, either.

[gangstadawg]

No, it doesn't. But it sure doesn't hurt, either.
yep money never hurts but a lack of it does.:D

[CurvaceousBBWLover]

Hello. I just wanted to share a quick story with everyone and get a different perspective about how I feel or how I should feel. I posted to the weight board a few months back about a situation that was occurring in my life, regarding a girl I met online in a bbw chat room. We became very close and enjoyed talking and even met 3 times (she lives 4 hours away). Well, to make a long story short, she told me early on about hating herself because of her size and I let her know that I accepted and even preferred her at her larger size (260 lbs). So, she was in the midst of her doctor appointments for the gastric bypass surgery and let me know that it was going to happen this fall. I did my best to convince her otherwise, but never was completely unsupportive. I guess I felt that it might never happen and I just always put it out of my mind when we talked. Well, she just had the surgery last week and it was very hard for me to deal with emotionally. She does finally understand about my preference and everything, but we are still trying to continue a relationship, although it is very difficult for me to do at this time. I feel very terrible and selfish about my feelings, but they just won't go away. I cannot fathom a lifetime of restrictions and limitations for her and the physical changes that are occurring right now. It just overwhelms me to think about it and I'm not sure that it's what I want. I never imagined I would be in a situation like this. When I've dated girls in the past, they have all had an acceptance of themselves that I have highlighted and helped them feel more comfortable. I just feel sick that this surgery has actually affected my feelings. I feel so shallow, but my insides are torn apart by this and I actually feel better when not talking to her. She consistently brings up all of these things related to the surgery and, despite trying to listen and be there for her, it is so hard to deal with. So, I don't know where to go from here.

Dude, your girl has self esteem issues. Drop her like a bad habit. WLS at 460 is understandable. But at 260? Do yourself a favor and get rid of her. Even if she won't be fat, she'll spend the rest of her life counting fat grams . You don't need that.

[CurvaceousBBWLover]

A couple hundred extra pounds? If you're talking 260 then what, the woman should be weighing 60 lbs? I think she's got a far better chance of being healthy at 260 than at 60.

And your blanket statement was that FAT is NOT healthy. Well, guess what? Sometimes it is. Sometimes being too thin is unhealthy. I'm not explaining myself because first, I shouldn't have to school you, and second, I doubt it would do any good anyway.

FLO, I believe you might be onto something there.;)

Isn't it ironic that in a country where must of us have enough to eat, people are wasting time worrying about becoming thin?

[gangstadawg]

Dude, your girl has self esteem issues. Drop her like a bad habit. WLS at 460 is understandable. But at 260? Do yourself a favor and get rid of her. Even if she won't be fat, she'll spend the rest of her life counting fat grams . You don't need that.
i agree. WLS was made for people considered morbidly big not for people that can exercise it off and not for cosmedic reasons.

[FitChick]

My husband works with a woman who had WLS after he tried convincing her it was not the way to go, for many reasons. He even asked me to talk to her about it, and I did.

The thing is, my husband says she was "unattractive" prior to the WLS, and is just as "unattractive" after the weight loss. Now, he does not mean *physically* unattractive, he means her personality. Nothing turns him off more (and, I'd venture to say, most people) than someone who always disses themselves, is down on themselves all the time and always looks at the negative of everything.

She expressed upset to my husband that she STILL can't get men to ask her out even though she lost the weight now. Its the PERSONALITY, NOT the weight, duh!

[FitChick]

If you think carrying a couple hundred extra pounds around is healthy, who am i to argue? :rolleyes:

OK, let me give you my own case, okay?

Five years ago I weighed 305 lbs. I walked everywhere because I was too damn cheap to pay the exorbitant SEPTA busfare. I figured, if I walk, I save $$$ and maybe even get there faster! I felt GREAT. I was raising three small kids, and life was going good.

Then, I picked up the exercise hobby (or should I say, returned to it after a lapse of many years)...I began eating right too. I did not do these things to lose weight but to feel better due to my IBS-D (caused by eating too much food, esp. fatty foods.) Exercise is also recommended because it regulates bowel function (crucial to help IBS-D).

Anyway, five years ago I had no knee or foot pain, walked everywhere (when I was 7 months preg and 275 lbs., I walked 30 city blocks pasting up signs for a lost cat, in 96 degree heat)...I NORMALLY walked EVERYWHERE.

Now, five years later, I weigh about 130 lbs, workout every day, but FEEL LIKE SHIT! I have plantar fascitiis from overuse injury (too much cycling), ilio-tibial band syndrome (knee problem due to cycling), and an ankle that pops when I walk and hurts like HELL. I am 45 but feel 70 sometimes. I own more ankle, knee and heel athletic supports than a drug store.

Yeah, I lost the weight, I'm a "healthy" weight now. So why do I feel so CRAPPY????


Oh, and I almost forgot: I have loads of loose skin that hangs off my stomach, back and under arms from weight loss. Insurance won't pay for it to be removed and I can't afford it on my own. Several times a day I have to apply anesthetic ointment to keep the itching away. Naturally exercise (my new addiction in place of food) makes it worse due to the sweating.

I NEVER wanted to crawl out of my own body until I lost weight and have to lie awake some nights, tormented by this infernal %$#$%@ ITCHING!!!

[toni]

I guess you over did it.

[FitChick]

I guess you over did it.

Yeah...I swapped one addiction (food) for another (exercise!) Hey but at least I'll die healthy, albeit with busted ankles and knees. LOL!

[toni]

What does it feel like to be addicted to exercise? I could not imagine it!

[ssbbwbabo]

you may have preferred her at the larger weight, but it seems she did not. if you feel different towards her now that she is going to loose weight, then you didnt have any real feelings for her in the first place.

[FitChick]

What does it feel like to be addicted to exercise? I could not imagine it!


Oh Gosh honestly it feels GREAT! Its probably what being addicted to drugs does for other people. Moderate exercise is boring, but intense exercise gives you a "rush" of endorphins. Its like sex, really! :smitten: I started out doing this for other reasons but now do it because it keeps my moods elevated (endorphins) and gives me a rush feeling to look forward to every day.

[LillyBBBW]

Yeah...I swapped one addiction (food) for another (exercise!) Hey but at least I'll die healthy, albeit with busted ankles and knees. LOL!

I miss those days. I screwed up my knees with exercise and had to have surgery. I've long since been rehabilitated but just haven't had the gusto to get back in, nor the money. (I prefer being a gym rodent to dithering about in the cold north winds) I'm working on a comeback, but it's slow going.

What kind of exercise are you into?

[FitChick]

I miss those days. I screwed up my knees with exercise and had to have surgery. I've long since been rehabilitated but just haven't had the gusto to get back in, nor the money. (I prefer being a gym rodent to dithering about in the cold north winds) I'm working on a comeback, but it's slow going.

What kind of exercise are you into?

For indoor exercise, its mostly my exercise bike and also weight training. I ran two of my exercise bikes into the ground (I wore them out), and now am working on my third, a Schwinn 201 Recumbent. I got it from http://www.mercantila.com which is a GREAT site for buying them. Not only did I get it cheap, they shipped it to me FREE! I didn't even need to leave my house to get it. Here is a link to the bike I now have: http://www.stationary-bike.com/catalog/shop/Schwinn_201_Recumbent_Stationary_Bike One problem a lot of big people have is, many exercise machines have a weight restriction. This one I have is 300 lbs and under, but the more expensive ones have higher weight limits. My first exercise bike had a so-called limit of 250 lbs and I was 305 when I first got on it. Screws kept popping off but I just put them back in and kept going (lol)...amazing how when I got down to less than 250, the screws started staying in.

I'm sorry to hear about your knees! One reason I started with a bike and stayed with it is because when I was really heavy, I was told (by fat acceptance literature/books I'd been reading on movement) that large people should choose exercise that doesn't put weight on the joints. That's why I didn't choose running, walking, etc I still prefer the bike though, and have gotten back into "regular" cycling as well (I have 3 bikes, one of which I use for running errands like lite shopping), and the others for long rides on weekends, etc I wanted to hold a bike ride to raise money for size acceptance causes, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Mostly I take part in rides to raise money for cancer charities like the ACS ride. Its a great way to have fun and help people too.

It could be that I'm biased but I really recommend bikes (stationary or regular) for large people. Walking and running is HARD on knees and hips, even for skinny people. A lot of really big people assume they can't ride a bike because of their weight, and I sort of assumed that too. Then one day when I was still about 250 my husband found my old bikes from my teen years in the basement, and I got up the nerve to ride them. And guess what? I didn't squash them! I have since learned that there are cycling clubs just for fat people, and one was profiled in a recent issue of BICYCLING Magazine. Its something worth looking into!

[RedHead]

I feel for you right now....but she is going through a time where all she can think about is herself. There is a need in her to find acceptance from everyone around her about the "decision" also the fact that somewhere in her pysche there is the notion that she will be "accepted and loved" when she loses her weight.

Nothing you say can or will help her; she must learn that she is who she is whether she is overweight or not.

Hope this helps!

[ThickChick72]

I feel for you right now....but she is going through a time where all she can think about is herself. There is a need in her to find acceptance from everyone around her about the "decision" also the fact that somewhere in her pysche there is the notion that she will be "accepted and loved" when she loses her weight.

Nothing you say can or will help her; she must learn that she is who she is whether she is overweight or not.

Hope this helps!
Very True!:)

[Sandie S-R]

How insensitive. Well, I'll bet money that there are people in this world who love others for who they are - not just for the size of their bodies.To some - love is without boundaries.....

That's rather idealistic. In the real world we all have likes, dislikes and preferrences attached to who and what we love. In the "Mother Theresa" sense of the word...yes, love is (or should be) unconditional and has no boundries. But relationships and marriages aren't that perfect, and neither are we as human beings. For some we can't help what we prefer and need in relationships, it's hard wired.

And quite frankly, I've been married to a man to may have loved me for my "inner" qualities, but tolerated my "outer package", and now am married to someone who loves the whole me, inner and outer. I much prefer the current situation, in case you weren't too sure. :)

So, would it be fair to suggest that this gentleman should stay with his lady, even if he is unhappy? She will surely know it, and probably it won't make for a very long lasting relationship in the end.

I personally recommend that he be honest with her about how he feels, and share those concerns with her. It will either work out for them, or not, but either way honesty will win out. Honesty is the only way to a healthy and loving relationship between two people.

http://www.zaftig-2000.com/sandie/LHC/sandie2006sig.jpg

[Sandie_Zitkus]

you may have preferred her at the larger weight, but it seems she did not. if you feel different towards her now that she is going to loose weight, then you didnt have any real feelings for her in the first place.

Oh I disagree with this.

You are attracted to what you are attracted to. Men in particular are visual creatures. They fall in love with women they are attracted to first. If there is a significant change in the way that person looks I think most men (not all) would have a tough time dealing with it. Attraction is an innate part of romantic love.

People change - men and women change physically over the years. Whether it is a large amount of weight lost or gained - you then become someone possibly your SO was not attracted to when the relationship first started. That doesn't mean there was NEVER any love. It just means things changed.

Some relationships can handle this - some cannot. It all dependes on how important physical appearance is to the particular person. I think it also depends on how long you've been together. It seems to me the longer you are together the deeper the non physical bond becomes and so any physical change would be less important.

[RedHead]

Sandy I agree with you wholeheartedley. Thank you for putting it down so eloquently.

[gangstadawg]

Sandy I agree with you wholeheartedley. Thank you for putting it down so eloquently.
i as well agree.

[LisaBinNYC]

Sandie,

I think that you misunderstood was lurking was trying to say. You have a very small portion of what she wrote and the gist of it wasn't that love is without boundaries as it appears to be by leaving out the rest of what was written.

[RedHead]

I think that 1) there were two Sandie's that posted back to back...so my way to go was in regards to that. Had to go back and read Lurking's post...I agree to a certain extent about what she had to say. But I also agree with Gangstadawg...I don't believe anyone should be held to loving an "image"....what happens with an accident, illness or whatever.

I think that we are missing a lot....first, he has not been in this relationship for very long. We don't even know if it has become a physical one. We don't know how she feels; perhaps she isn't as emotionally invested as he is; therefore his opinion really doesn't matter to her.

I still stand by what I say....regardless of his feelings; she is NOT going to be able to process a healthy relationship until she finds who she is whether she is fat or thin.

[HappyFatChick]

260 can be a perfectly healthy weight. We've already read all the articles that
prove you can be fat and healthy. Someone from 5'5"-6' tall at 260 is not that big. Expecially if they exercise and have some muscle.

And we have plenty of proof that insurance companies CAN and DO shell out up to $50,000 for the surgery. It just depends how convincing you and your doctor are. And how greedy the doctor is.

If the man I loved mutilated his insides by choice, not only would I move on, I'd run!

We love who we love. And when one of us changes drastically, we cannot blame the other.

[ellyn]

Just my opinion...but how deep could the relationship have been, if her size matters THAT much? Is her size all that matters to you? I love my BHM hubby and find him sexy as hell, and if he became ill or for some reason lost weight, I would still love the man. He might no longer be my sexual ideal, but how many people in this world are able to be with their sexual ideal?

[Miss Vickie]

Just my opinion...but how deep could the relationship have been, if her size matters THAT much? Is her size all that matters to you? I love my BHM hubby and find him sexy as hell, and if he became ill or for some reason lost weight, I would still love the man. He might no longer be my sexual ideal, but how many people in this world are able to be with their sexual ideal?

Brava, Ellyn. Brava. And you're right about how rare it is to be with someone's sexual idea. I mean, George Clooney and Johnny Deep would be awfully busy. ;)

[lady of the dark]

Just my opinion...but how deep could the relationship have been, if her size matters THAT much? Is her size all that matters to you? I love my BHM hubby and find him sexy as hell, and if he became ill or for some reason lost weight, I would still love the man. He might no longer be my sexual ideal, but how many people in this world are able to be with their sexual ideal?

I totally agree. Maybe some other things were wrong and you just blamed the failure of the relationship on her weightloss.

[LillyBBBW]

Just my opinion...but how deep could the relationship have been, if her size matters THAT much? Is her size all that matters to you? I love my BHM hubby and find him sexy as hell, and if he became ill or for some reason lost weight, I would still love the man. He might no longer be my sexual ideal, but how many people in this world are able to be with their sexual ideal?

The numbers are probably a lot higher than the amount of people who wake up one day to find that their beloved has a body that repulses them in every way. It's the oldest cliche in the book, men who run off with their secretary because the wife has become fat. It's awful, it's sinister, but it's a stark reality. I don't think it's possible to love someone enough to habitually have sacrificial sex with them long term while longing for something else deep within your soul. I suspect it will eventually erode the relationship and the person will leave. Good riddance? Perhaps. I would probably not be so blase in saying this if it were me in that situation but from the outside looking in I can say that I'd prefer him to fess up, come clean and move on. I don't want his charity.

[Jes]

Brava, Ellyn. Brava. And you're right about how rare it is to be with someone's sexual idea. I mean, George Clooney and Johnny Deep would be awfully busy. ;)
Brava, Vickie, brava for knowing it's not bravo!! :)

[Miss Vickie]

Brava, Vickie, brava for knowing it's not bravo!! :)

Thanks, darlin', for noticing. ;) And also for ignoring how I mistyped Johnny Depp's name. ;)