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Old 12-30-2017, 02:37 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by TwoSwords View Post
I assure you, I take fat people of all stripes very seriously. I just don't accept statistics or anecdotal evidence as methods of proof, and after all the times I've felt betrayed and disheartened by other people hating fatness, or treating it disrespectfully, or abandoning it, or otherwise being anything but delighted and reverent towards it; cherishing it, like all other things of surpassing goodness, I will question my conclusions on this, only if I see real proof that they're wrong. Real proof comes in four varieties. Logical proofs (deductive and inductive,) mathematical proofs, scientific proofs and perceptible proofs. Since a connection between fatness and mortality is not perceptible with our normal senses, we must rely on one of the first 3, probably numbers 1 or 3, since numbers alone seem unlikely to give us this data. So, is there some logical argument to indicate that fatness causes poor health, or is it not more likely that the reverse is true? Is there any actual, scientific proof that fatness is the deciding factor in health outcomes, or are there other factors, where the blame is to be more rightly placed?

The stakes, for me, could not be higher, and my entire life's structure will hinge on this point, so I'm strongly motivated to learn the actual truth about this. Am I going to be offered some hope in this life, or do I need to wait for the next with patience and silence?

I refuse to feel guilty about something which I don't control, can't help, and have no alternative to.
The anecdotal evidence for those in the extreme supersized weight range is pretty overwhelming. And as far as quality of life, it is hard for any rational person to argue that being ‘super-sized’ doesn't have a major effect.

I certainly agree about the chasm between correlation and causation regarding fatness and health outcomes. There are so many other confounding factors that may be involved in the health of fat people. One of the more important ones is level of physical activity that tends to go down as weight goes up. I recall a study that was released a few years back where they showed moderately overweight people who exercised regularly had statistically better health outcomes than thin people who never worked out. A potential flaw there might have been using BMI only to categorize the people and so you could have some high BMI/'normal' body fat (muscle-bound) people making that group seem 'healthier'. I also think the damage done by yo-yo dieting needs to be considered – and again I believe at least one study showed people who had a more stable high weight tended to be better off than those who had large fluctuations over the years. Fat people also are more likely to be stressed due to discrimination, and we know that constant stress/anxiety is bad for your long-term health.
As far as the ‘FA guilt’, for me it is seeing numerous women who had done BBW modelling or porn and who I had lusted over now dying in their 40s and 50s. But you are right that we don’t consciously choose to find these SSBBW attractive and we have no direct effect on their lives. I guess it is only when it is your own significant other and potentially weight-related health issues that we really need to ‘check ourselves’.

Originally Posted by Mack27 View Post

……………………….As far as assholes go, well there will always be assholes. They think they can justify being dicks to fat people by citing statistics. No, tearing someone down to make yourself feel better is being an asshole no matter how you slice it. I'll always call them on it. Fat people don't cost more in medical costs as every study that measures costs over a lifetime shows. Fat people make less money. Yeah, so do short people, the world is full of shallow fucks. Fat people hurt economic production with more sick days. Oh I'm sorry, did we suddenly stop living in a capitalist society where any particular individual's relationship with their employer is none of your fucking business?
Seems that issue about fat people being unhealthy and costing the health care system more is one that gets trotted out more and more. But if fat people are also not living as long and not suffering the debilitating diseases of old age like Alzheimers as frequently, I can see it balancing out. One of the problems we have is the growing number of elderly which is straining the Medicare and SS pension programs. So you could argue that fat people are helping to partially mitigate that issue by having shorter average lifespans. Of course when it is your own loved one’s life (or your own), no one is going to think that way.

Originally Posted by wrestlingguy View Post
Not that I want this discussion to turn into perceptions of health of fat people (because the rest of the thread is fascinating in many ways), but I am a big proponent of contemporary research that being fat isn't as unhealthy as one would think. I constantly look for studies that support this, and while it takes some work, the reality is that most of those studies are blown off as "pseudo science", despite the fact that some of the research comes not only from some quality research institutions, but from all areas of the world. The problem is that it's so revolutionary that most people simply blow it off as fat people trying to convince themselves that being fat is okay (which it should be).

And for this reason alone (there are others as well), we need fat acceptance, and while I agree doesn't exist as we knew it when Bill Fabrey created NAAFA back in 1969, is probably needed now more than ever, thanks to trolls & internet bullies that still bleed over into real life.
It seems this perception of fat people (even a little bit fat) automatically being unhealthy is absolutely the biggest hurdle in the current lack of traction for fat acceptance. So I think it really does not derail this thread to address the issue. Maybe one of the things that hurt fat acceptance back when it was on the verge of really taking hold in the ‘80s/’90s was a tendency of the ‘movement’ to be too dismissive of the health implications of obesity.
"Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time."
- Thomas A. Edison
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