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Old 01-03-2018, 06:14 AM   #46
Hard to say, really...
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Default That's not how this works, that's not how ANY of this works...

Originally Posted by TwoSwords View Post
"I'm afraid I still don't see what smart phones have to do with people finding support in the midst of bad treatment by others. It hasn't gotten any easier. In fact, as I pointed out, it's harder."

Have you actually thought about this?

I mean, really, really reflected on it, thinking it all through, all of the various angles and implications?

How much do you actually remember of life before smartphones?

What about the time before that, when WiFi first became so widely available in all of our public spaces (libraries, cafes, etc...)? What about, before even that, the at times gradual shift from dial-up to broadband? Or as dial-up and satellite-based services began to expand yet further and further into yet more rural and remote areas?

(btw, what was it like when you were in grade school and high school, respectively? Do you think it's basically the same as how it was when your parents went to school or when your grandparents were in school? Or do you suppose things have changed, somewhat, more or less? I mean in terms of how things are run, along the lines of stuff student discipline and security, etc...)

Mind you, both Size Acceptance and Fat Admiration-alike, respectively, as distinct subcultures and movements, were up and running well-before all of this. Long-time members of this site, if not to mention its creator, were doing all kinds of stuff, appearing on talk shows, running 'zines, going to workshops and other such events.

Do you really honestly believe that things are more difficult for fat people today than as they might've seemed back then??

Originally Posted by TwoSwords View Post
"Fragmented" implies that there are still fragments left, so why am I not seeing them? Why are people not discussing this?"
Because you can't see or won't acknowledge the timber for the forest it once was, doesn't mean it never existed as such or hasn't been reduced through your own fault. Because people aren't talking about this with you doesn't necessarily mean it's not being discussed any which way anymore.

Originally Posted by TwoSwords View Post
"...all have fragments of fat acceptance in them that I'm not aware of?"
You keep throwing this particular term out there. Again and again. And yet again. Maybe, I guess, because it's of some particular importance, to you. To support you own particular (imagined) narrative.

However, it's not really reflective of how most fat people talk about themselves nowadays. Size Acceptance is still, now, 'a thing.' So is Body Positivity. And so is Fat Admiration.

Conflating all of that, together, under a banner of Fat Acceptance, or whatever else you want to call it, is akin to.....Nevermind. Just, just....don't do it. Even if you're fat yourself. Better to step back from that one a bit.

Originally Posted by TwoSwords View Post
"....having found a way to hide from scorn ...have decided that other groups of people who are scorned don't deserve their help... a group of people who were (and are) treated with open scorn, who once recognized that they were a persecuted group, and wanted to seek a solution for themselves and other, related persecuted groups, and have basically decided that, as long as they can feel like they're mainstream, nobody else's fate matters.......dodging one's responsibility to those who are still rejected by society, and who still require support and acceptance."
This what people mean when they speak of entitlement, a general attitude of entitlement, like one's somehow entitled to the sympathy and attention and affection and trust of a fat audience; that all fat people, everywhere, should be perfectly happy to rush to their defense, chasing windmills, etc....for the privilege of hearing about how they or their fat gives you some kind of boner. Except, that's not, like, reality, how stuff works out in the real world. Really, nothing works like that out in the real world.

In reality, out in the real world, 1) You're entitled to no-thing.

2) It will tend to be that young people will occupy and take ownership of and protect and defend a space that both takes them in early on and offers them some kind of sustained support. And so, once that space, virtual or otherwise, becomes overrun with (mostly) undesirable elements, it will effectively cease to attract the kinds of numbers of young(er) and new people it practically needs to in order to sustain any kind of ecosystem. It will die off as the older members die-themselves or move on to other things, different phases of life.

As such, this particular kind of challenge is not at all unique to Size Acceptance or Fat Admiration, but has been equally met (more successfully) by many other subcultures or counter-cultural movements and gone to being better, more firmly established and effective for it. Other older members, people with a lot more direct experience in it than I, have spoken about this here and otherwise at length in the past. The practical need to proactively police and protect one's own. To come up with some kind of mutually agreed-upon ground rules or best practices wherever applicable. Both for the greater good and out of some sense of altruism. And to protect a burgeoning sense of community both from within and without.

Originally Posted by TwoSwords View Post
"The only reason why concerns about fetishists are so common, is that..."
Is how readily some people seem to feel like that's an excuse for just about anything.

So, it's not really about fetishes or fetishists, per se; but more about peoples' behavior, in general, what's deem mostly acceptable versus what's considered universally unacceptable, beyond the pale, so to speak. And, with that, fat people are as much a part of it as anyone else, how they might use whatever baggage they're carrying in order to justify whatever might otherwise not be overlooked. How anyone might try to co-opt some larger, higher purpose for their own base and selfish means.
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