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Old 11-30-2009, 03:32 PM   #44
Smushygirl
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Philly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleute View Post
Some men, Smushy. SOME men will do that. I have also worked with many men and had many close, non-sexual male friends, and it is NOT all of them. I find putting all males down or treating them like they're a different species with no morals or self-restraint to be every bit as offensive as men thinking of all women as being fickle, manipulative, and hormone-controlled (seriously, I would be happy never hearing another PMS joke ever again... but I could also stand to never hear "well, what did you expect from a MAN?" again either).
I totally agree with you here, as I know what I said earlier is true, I know that there are great men out there. I don't think that I was excluding them in my other statement. I know and am related to some really great men.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleute View Post
I agree completely about the double standard. In reference to my earlier post, I wouldn't say that a guy who felt the same way - not being able to have a relationship with someone he found completely physically unappealing - was NOT shallow. I just think we'd have an equal level of shallow-ness. I hardly think it's a bad thing for women to express their physical preferences!
I would never, ever want to stop that from happening!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tania View Post
Do any of these women happen to be posting in this thread? :/

I truly believe that you're trying to be nice, and I generally agree with the rest of your message. However, I'm a bit upset that you chose me as your springboard example for complaints about "passes," rushing to avoid "shallow" labels order to impress men, and "judging other women." In calling me out, you seemed to conflate my BDD episodes with weakness, insincerity, attacking other women, settling, and the enablement of bad male behavior. Wow.

Even if you didn't intend it, there is an implication in this that when a person struggles with oneself, or perceives oneself differently than one perceives others, it is somehow a default yet decided "negative judgement" of those others in which the problemmatic elements of self are apparently manifest. There is also the implication that in struggling with what seems to be conventional imperfection in oneself that one cannot genuinely appreciate "imperfections" or unconventionality in anyone else. If that's true, then it can be said that all fat admirers who are unenthusiastic about being/becoming fat themselves are essentially giving the fat folk a "pass."



Is this a general, rhetorical statement addressed to the OP, or is it directed at me for using the term "shallow" loosely/wishing Blob away in another, unrelated thread? I don't think anybody is discounting or dismissing the notion that attraction and stability are or should be important. I'm certainly not; but I'm definitely saying that one can genuinely and without romantic/chemical sacrifice appreciate unconventionality and subversive traits in others that they may not always appreciate in themselves.
I like you, Tania. I know we have never posted together, but I do like you. I did use your post as a springboard, as it was the last in a series of posts that was changing what I thought was the OP's original intent. That was it. So I apologize to you if you thought that I was casting any aspersions. I truly wasn't.
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