I have a problem that I can't share with anyone else

[Melian]

As the title says, I have a huge problem and, although I don't know any of you in real life, I feel like this is the only place I can voice it.

I think my engagement is ending

Some background: when I first met my fiance, he was slightly thinner (but not much), yet I felt an incredible attraction to him because he seemed to have everything I wanted. We are mentally compatible, he is practically physically perfect (as far as I was concerned), and the best part, the part I had NEVER experienced with a bf - he seemed to exude such confidence in himself and apathy towards the opinions of general society. I had dealt with incredibly self conscious men in the past, and I knew I COULD NOT handle another one.

We've been together for a few years now, living together for about a year, and he has slowly gained a small amount of weight over time, mostly due to comfort, I would assume. I'm not sure of a numerical value, but it works out to about 4 pants sizes or something. As he gained, of course I found myself becoming ridiculously attracted to him; parts like his stomach and chest have been elevated to fetish status for me, and he really seems to enjoy being touched there. I also must mention that I have never had an orgasm or felt particularly sexually fulfilled in past relationships, again, due to the self-loathing expressed by previous partners (the mood is killed when the guy says, "don't touch my disgusting, flabby stomach"), but this time, everything seemed to be going SO perfectly. And just so we're clear, it wasn't just one-way perfection - I paid very close attention to his needs, figured out ALL his fetishes and learned ways to give him frequent, earth-shattering orgasms. I felt a lot of hope for us.

But nothing good ever lasts....

Over the last few months, we've had several small arguments. They always revolve around him not wanting me to touch the parts I like the most/me not liking the "right" parts of him/me indulging him 99% of the time, but not getting what I need in return/etc. Last night, he just lost it on me; he was so angry that I actually became afraid and went silent for a few hours. Basically, he hurled insults at me for liking his "moobs," then angrily lectured me on how "men don't have boobs, it's not fucking natural and it's revolting, despite what any website says. Anyone who lets themselves look like this is failing at life." And on and on and on. Then he goes on to say that he hates his chest, hates his stomach and, although he is too lazy to ever change them, he also refuses to ever try and like them, no matter what anyone says or does about it. If he ever gets to look like (a moderately fat character on a tv show we watch) he will kill himself.

I'm just so confused. Where did this come from??? I've known him for a long time, and there was never a hint that something like this would happen. I can't tell if he was freaking out because winter is coming and his SAD is having a bizarre flare-up, or if he is actually serious!

When we finally went to bed, he continued this verbal assault on me until he eventually said he "felt better." He passed out right away, but I lied awake for several hours, got up and paced the house, then cried myself to sleep. I don't think I've ever felt so utterly worthless.... My issue is partially that my hope of finally being sexually satisfied with a man has been destroyed, but I am also devastated that he harbours such resentment towards me, when all I've ever tried to do was please him and love him.

Now I'm just stuck in some sort of limbo. Either he really hates my love of his body and will just stop letting me touch him, or he was exaggerating because of the SAD, but now everything is tainted. By that I mean, how can I ever enjoy touching him again after hearing that? My pleasure is a function of his pleasure - I can't be satisfied unless he is, too. I love the guy to death and desperately want to find some kind of mutually beneficial solution to our problem, but after last night I'm really shaken up and can't think rationally.

If you managed to read all that, thank you. I'm not sure what I hope to achieve by posting this...it's mostly just an airing of grievances, since I'd probably explode if I had to keep it all bottled up.

[Tad]

(((Melian))) Aw, poor you

I'll try to have a more constructive response later.

[TraciJo67]

Also wanted to let you know that this post was seen, it's not floating out in cyberspace unnoticed. I wanted to think about what you said & formulate a thoughtful response. Haven't had a chance to do that yet. In the meantime, I echo Ed's sentiments ... (((( Melian )))

[Miss Vickie]

Melian, I'm sorry. This sounds like a really tough situation. It's difficult enough to be in a relationship with someone who hates their body (ask Burtimus, he'll tell you!) but when they take their hurt out on YOU, that's not okay. What you describe sounds like verbal abuse and I think that if it's unacceptable to you, harmful to you, it's perfectly okay to say so. In fact, I think it's good to set limits in the relationship early on. You can't help him with his self image issues but you also shouldn't be a verbal punching bag.

Can you perhaps suggest he get some help? Hating one's body that much, and expressing such anger about it, shows to me someone who needs some help. If you can maybe gently encourage him to reach out, it may save him -- and your relationship.

Good luck, honey. And again, I'm sorry.

[No-No-Badkitty]

Originally Posted by Miss Vickie

Can you perhaps suggest he get some help? Hating one's body that much, and expressing such anger about it, shows to me someone who needs some help. If you can maybe gently encourage him to reach out, it may save him -- and your relationship.

Good luck, honey. And again, I'm sorry.

I completely agree with Miss Vickie. It sounds like he might need some help. Counseling and maybe antidepressants. And that's probably not what he wants to hear. Sometime trying to get someone to realize that they need help is the hardest step of all.

[HDANGEL15]

((MELIAN))

wow sounds like he hurt you deeply and lashed out, but in his head, perhaps he thinks you have been sabotaging him?

I would honestly say give time, time. Let him think about what he said yesterday, it's about HIM, his feelings, NOT YOU, although he crossed some boundaries. I have a very abusive brother (verbally ONLY)..and I learned to set some boundaries, mind you this took over 40+ yrs. I have a suit of armour when it he opens his mouth, I let him go on and on and I don't feel it so much anymore. THAT IS NOT HEALTHY. I was told over and over by friends to walk away when he did that to me, or stop him in his tracks.

I get this is a very different relationship. Stay open with the situation. He has gained a lot of weight (4 sizes?)..it's awesome that you find him so satisfying, but you both want to stay healthy through this, if you are going to make this a lifelong committment. Hang in there, reach out to others, that's the best thing. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I liked the above suggestion, encouraging him to get some counseling, perhaps both of you, together.

This is a slippery slope, hope it all works out, keep it simple, stay in today, don't project out to the future, if you can xoxoxo + hugz

[Melian]

Thank you so much for the responses, all of you.

Miss Vickie: unfortunately, I've been suggesting that he should get some professional help for his SAD and other issues for over a year now. I actually work in a mental health facility, so I know the right and wrong ways to go about making this suggestion, too. He is open to the idea *sometimes*, but always conveniently forgets to go (even after we make the appointment together).

He hates the way he is, but does not want to change. It is so frustrating.

Again, thanks everyone.

[Ichida]

I'll try and split my responses into parts...

I have relatively bad SAD, so I know how it feels to go off the handle and start focusing on something small. I had a few flair ups recently, and burst into tears at being crowded in a mall. SAD doesn't...create problems, but it does affect your ability to handle them, and does blow things out of proportion. The fact that he got THAT upset over it and couldn't let it go is a sign of a possible SAD flare up...but that he feels that way is not. The fact that it has been building is another sign that this is a developing thing.

I know exactly how you feel, hun. I was dating my last guy for three years - over the last year he had those same flare ups and no longer wanted me to touch him. The same thing - slowly went up maybe 2-3 pant sizes. I can say in retrospect that I had never had an orgasm, and sex became a chore for both of us - for me because I couldn't touch or look at the parts i liked best, for him because he knew I was just taking it and getting no pleasure.

I feel so bad for you...even if he feels angry, verbally assaulting you over it is just wrong. Try to think about this over the next while. If things continued this way, would you be able to handle it? Only you know the answer to that. Then talk with him about how you feel. Don't feel afraid to tell him your worries about not being sexually fulfilled and feeling attacked - he needs to know.

**hugs** i hope things work out for you!

[TraciJo67]

I agree with everything that Vick said.

I am also thinking that if he does hate himself/his body this much, there is really nothing that you can do to change that. He has to come to terms with his own issues, on his own. You can help in all the ways that you've already been doing -- showing him how much you love him just as he is, worshipping his body, etc. But it's not going to fix what's wrong with him, and I think you already know this.

Has he acted in this manner before, or is the verbal abuse a new behavior for him? Obviously, he shouldn't have taken his self-loathing out on you. You were probably just a very convenient target.

I can't advise you on what to do, but if this were me, I'd take a lot of things into consideration before leaving the relationship. You've already mentioned how much you love him, so that's not a consideration. I'd look at things like, past history ... can you trust him ... is he capable of change ... and, how important is it to YOU that he love and accept himself just as he is? Can you live with the knowledge that he may never accept his moobs and his belly and his fat body? Is his inability to accept that you LOVE what he hates about himself a deal breaker for you? He may never change. He may come to resent your attraction to him, he may think that it's unnatural (because *he* can't accept it). Or he could come to some kind of uneasy terms with himself. As he gets older, he may even learn to appreciate himself just as he is. The point is, though: HE has to get to this place, and he can't do it with you. Until he does, your love and support and desire for him will never be enough.

It was easy to see that you are in anguish over this incident. I hope that the two of you can sit down and calmly discuss what happened, why it happened, and how you are going to proceed from here. Please don't treat it like the proverbial elephant in the room. I can tell you from bitter experience that this never works. He needs to know that he cannot treat you this way, no matter how badly he feels. Hopefully, in the light of day, he will understand that he has a great big massive chunk of humble pie to gobble down, and that he'd better act grateful to be eating it in front of you.

[moore2me]

Dear Melian,

I have a question for you. Based on this statement in your post

When we finally went to bed, he continued this verbal assault on me until he eventually said he "felt better." He passed out right away . . .

Had your fiance been drinking? If he had, his tirade and his behavior sounds like the rage of an alcoholic during a drinking binge. This is a good reason for you to have doubts, mistrust, and lack of libido about your relationship with him. If this is the case, you need to seek advice from Al-Anon at a group meeting. This problem with your boyfriend will not get better, it will only get worse. SAD probably has little to do with it. His behavior will probably persist thru the summer.

He has gained weight because he is drinking too many empty calories and not eating enough nutrition. Alcohol has almost nothing but carbs and sugars. No proteins, no vitamins, no minerals, etc. Plus, alcohol negatively affects the brain and the liver and several other organs. I also will cause negative social effects that you are experiencing. A long term relationship with an alcoholic is headed for certain disaster.

My hunch is further reinforced by your signature at the bottom of the page – the quote from Metalocylpse.

Whaddya mean, "booze ain't food??"

[Miss Vickie]

Originally Posted by Melian

Thank you so much for the responses, all of you.

Miss Vickie: unfortunately, I've been suggesting that he should get some professional help for his SAD and other issues for over a year now. I actually work in a mental health facility, so I know the right and wrong ways to go about making this suggestion, too. He is open to the idea *sometimes*, but always conveniently forgets to go (even after we make the appointment together).

He hates the way he is, but does not want to change. It is so frustrating.

Again, thanks everyone.

Poor ducky. I'm sorry. I guess I worry less about his body image issues, because as others have said, you really have little or no influence on those. Plus, I have had my own and while I know they have irritated Burtimus to no end, I haven't hurt HIM with them; I've only hurt ME.

What concerns me about your situation is the mental health stuff, him lashing out at you, the SAD issue, etc. If it were me, I'd ask myself this question, and it may be something you have to mull over for awhile: Can I live with this for the next 50 years. If you can't, then I think you should tell him that, in a loving way. He has the right to know that some of his behavior (not his feelings but his behavior) is a deal breaker for you. It's perfectly okay to set limits and say, "When you lash out at me it hurts me and I'm not sure I can live a life like this." You being firm in what you are willing to accept (I wouldn't call it an ultimatum) may be the impetus he needs to be serious about getting help.

Just so you know, I was on the receiving end of such a non-ultimatum. I'm a survivor of sexual, physical and emotional abuse and I dealt with that pain in very non-productive ways that involved self injury. Every time Burtimus and I would have a significant problem, I'd (literally and figuratively) beat myself up. At one point he told me, "I love you but I won't watch you do this to yourself. I'll support you and help you but you have GOT to get help and you have GOT to stop doing this or I will leave." Well, that was just what I needed to hear because I'd been deluding myself that my self injury had no effect on anyone else. I got serious in my therapy and stopped doing it and am happy to say I haven't engaged in that behavior in probably a decade or more.

Good luck, Melian. Relationships are hard, and the right road to take is seldom clear and there's usually pain no matter what you do. But there can also be joy. I hope your guy chooses to get help so you can have a long, happy live together.

[chicken legs]

I think its time for you to move out and give him and you space. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I would also suggest breaking the engagement After you move out. However, don't tell him your moving until the after you have already moved to avoid a serious blow up from him. You have to set bounderies for yourself and for him. I not saying totally break up but I think tough love is the only way to help him now. So put some space between you and him and tell him the only way to bridge the gap is with professional help and if that doesn't work then you have to walk away so as to lessen the damage to yourself.


good luck and best wishes

[Ninja Glutton]

Originally Posted by Melian

Thank you so much for the responses, all of you.

Miss Vickie: unfortunately, I've been suggesting that he should get some professional help for his SAD and other issues for over a year now. I actually work in a mental health facility, so I know the right and wrong ways to go about making this suggestion, too. He is open to the idea *sometimes*, but always conveniently forgets to go (even after we make the appointment together).

He hates the way he is, but does not want to change. It is so frustrating.

Again, thanks everyone.

As someone who gets it bad when it comes to SAD, I can understand your frustration and how much this hurts. If that is truly the reason for his suffering and sudden change of heart, then I can at least give you the consolation that it's not him talking. When you get into those modes of thinking, you feel like that's who you really are.

I'm sorry you had to put up with the verbal abuse. Maybe you two should take a little bit of time to sit down like rational adults and talk this out. If it spirals into verbal abuse again, I'd take some time off from each other. I hope things work out for you two since you seem to have much of yourself invested in this. I wish you the best, darling.

[Love.Metal]

Oh geez...I think that what he said, and the ways he went about saying them, would wound me deeper than anything else could. I mean, it's not like we choose to like fat, why be punished for something that is beyond our control?? <---preaching to the choir, I know.

I really have no helpful advice, I just had to post and tell you that I'm really sorry that all of this went down, especially so suddenly. If you want to talk, I would love to. I actually had an extremely similar experience with my bf about a week ago...PM me if you'd like to comiserate and maybe brain storm a bit.

So sorry this happened, love. Keep your pretty little chin up, and come poke my brain if you feel like it I'd love it if you did...

<3

[Durin]

Melian

Wow, I can not believe how much it would hurt to hear those kind's of thing's.

[WillSpark]

After reading the whole thing, I developed a certain view of the situation. There are a few questions here only you can answer, so bear with me.

First, has this been gradually building up? Has he developed this dislike of himself or did it all just come out all at once? If the latter, it could easily be outside forces affecting him. Maybe someone in his circle or from work has started poking fun at his gain, and it gradually built until he was forced to unleash it on the one person he was comfortable with, i.e. you.

You mentioned one of the points of arguement may have been about you not focusing on the "right" parts of him. Is this what you meant? If so that may have been part of that general buildup.

Does he tend to have a varied demeanor about it? The SAD might have to do with it, but you say he's been relatively comfortable with you focusing on those places. Was he doing it for you or does he truly enjoy it?

From my perspective, it seems like he's angry at himself or something else and is taking it out on you. You don't deserve that, and if he's turning into the very thing you hate in a guy, then turning away may be the only option, especially if things like this continue, but right now I say he may actually be in pain, and may need someone there. This just happened. Take some time to try and figure it out, even if it means confronting him later. You've built an engagement around this man, and owe it to you and him to figure out the problem before making any rash decisions.

Sorry to answer with so many questions, but you're the only one here who truly knows you, him, and your relationship, and advice can only go so far. Only you can truly work it out. I hope things do, though, for the better.


And now, here's a cute picture:

[GTAFA]

First of all, congratulations for posting this. While you say "I'm not sure what I hope to achieve by posting this" this message could achieve some important things, whether intended or not. I've read the other messages in this thread, which are fascinating testimony to the way people handle pain, hurt and abuse. You're collateral damage, it seems, because this guy is so busy launching an all out assault (bombing himself with insults and self-loathing) that he doesn't notice what he's doing to you. Has he apologized, or even acknowledged what went down?

I don't envy you, because I suspect you still have huge warm feelings for him in spite of what he's done to you. Leaving is very hard.

So think about it. One of the great things you can accomplish by posting here is getting a sense of what's reasonable under the circumstances, discovering whether you really should give him another chance or break it off. Perhaps this will help give you the courage to walk away.

Note: people are usually on their best behaviour before marriage rather than after. If you don't like his behaviour now, imagine how he might treat you if you become his property. (That is how he's likely to perceive you if you put up with what he's already done to you and --by marrying him--say to him "more please!")

[Tad]

My response is going to risk being all over the place, because I have so many thoughts going on here.

First, as everyone has said, under no circumstances should your partner be yelling at you. One mistake might be allowed, but I’d say that is it.

Second, every now and then my son has spells a bit like that, most often when SAD is striking. When those happen we’ve learned to ask “What is going on?” Because the outbreak is almost never directly tied to what the fuss was about. Rather something else has him stressed, and then something else happens that sets him off, and he grounds out all of that stress on that safer seeming environment. So if he’s having trouble with an assignment at school, or was getting teased by another kid, he’d melt down about being asked to floss his teeth or being told that he had to write a thank you note before he could play with his new Lego. I’m not saying that is what is happening here, and no doubt the whole how he feels about his body is a real issue, but I wonder if the intensity behind it all could have come from something not directly related? (like worried about losing his job, or his family is always horrible at Christmas or something like that). Again, I don’t think this is an excuse for lashing out like that, and I don’t know that this is what is happening, but it might partially explain what happened.

Now for the depressing part. In my personal experience all the love and fat admiration in the world will not convince someone who does not like their fat to start liking it, or even tolerate it all that well. After eighteen years of trying, all I’ve managed to convince my wife of is that I’m a benign oddball who fortunately is attracted to her, but that in no way seems like a reason to her why she should disagree with the world about the attractiveness of fat. She doesn’t worry about it as much as she would if she were married to someone who was clearly turned off by her fat, but she still doesn’t like it. I’ve learned to be very careful during sex with where my hands go so as not to kill the mood for her. I keep most compliments I’d like to give her to myself, and instead compliment her on things that matter less to me. I don’t talk to her about Dimensions things and will never go to a Dimensions get together. After some years of gaining during our early years together, as genetics and adult privileges and freedoms had their effect, she’s been slowly losing, and I smile and support her and compliment her about it.

Is it worth it to me? Yah, we are deeply compatible in whole pile of ways outside of our opinions about fat, and for the most part I’m a pretty happy hubby. But would life be hotter and more pleasure filled for me if it were otherwise? Probably. For me the trade off was worth it, but everyone in their own situations has to make up their own minds on such trade-offs.

[Buffetbelly]

One point I would emphasize is his mental health issues will NOT be cured by marrying him. In fact, things will probably get much worse. During the courtship phase, which are you are in as unlikely as that may seem, he probably witholding or hiding a world of negative thoughts and emotions. After marriage, these will work their way out as no one can hold back a sea of negativity. You are facing the prospect of years of unhappiness.

There are plenty of mentally healthy BHM out there. You may have to wait until you find one.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but I married a woman with what I thought were mild mental health issues that got out of hand after our child was born. Think twice or even thrice!

[cammy]

Melian - As the others have stated, verbal abuse is unacceptable - and it often leads to physical abuse.

His feelings about himself are NOT due to his SAD. His out burst is a self-anger issue, which is probably not exclusive to his unhappiness with his weight. Anger is a wasteful, useless and damaging emotion. If you should stay with him and he doesn't work to resolve his anger issues, his anger will linger under the surface of your relationship and you will spend your life walking on eggshells and being fearful.

Also quite troublesome is your statement that he says he hates his chest and stomach and is too lazy to ever change them. This is not good. He's saying, "I hate myself, but have no motivation to change." You are in for a world of misery, girl and so is he.

You have a decision to make - however, the way it stands now, your relationship will end, just later rather than sooner.

[Carl1h]

Sorry that things have turned so sour for you. That's shitty, no doubt about it. My advice echoes what others have already said.

First, be very careful about relationships with people who are exhibiting signs of mental illnesses like depression, but are unwilling to seek help for them. This might not seem like a big problem most of the time, but when it becomes a problem it can be a very big one.

Second, try to talk this out with him. Make sure he isn't cutting you off as punishment for something else. If he really has gotten to a size that he can't tolerate, then maybe you can work out together a way for him to drop a couple sizes with your help and support. Then he can work to maintain a size that you both can be happy with.

If he won't talk about what's going on. If he won't work to be a size that he can be happy with or work on being happy with whatever size he happens to be. If he won't get help for his SAD. If verbal abuse is going to be his weapon of choice. If he's not willing to participate in your sexual interests. What kind of long term relationship can you hope to have with him?

[Dr. P Marshall]

((((Melian))))-

I'm so, so sorry about this. Others in this thread have given you far better advice than I could. I just wanted you to know you have my support and best wishes. I ended an engagement over my partner's depression, and I know how hard that can be if that is what you decide. (I'm not saying that is your only choice, just that I know how hard a place that can be). Seriously, if you need a sympathetic ear, PM me sweetie.

[rabbitislove]

Melian,
Alarms went off when I read your post. I was engaged to a man who was verbally abusive and demeaned me for his size, yet was too lazy to lose the weight again. The abuse became more severe until I worked up the courage to leave. Look out. He may be displaying warning signs of an abuser.

You need to be with someone who doesnt demean your love of fat. You shouldnt be sacrificing your sexual desires to make someone else happy (and while fulfilling all their sexual desires). Thats bullshit. Can you really deal with a lifetime of this?

*hugs*
Im sorry you went through this. All FFAs have been there in one way or another and it sucks.

[MaryElizabethAntoinette]

I don't know if I can give you any useful response, and a lot of the posters before me have already given great advice...

In this situation, I think you should tread lightly. But it's still necessary that you two have a discussion about it. I'm sure you've already had many discussions about it, but you should attempt to talk about your attraction and his reaction to it in a different light than before. Although, I have no idea how you've talked about it before, so you've probably said everything that needs to be said to him regarding your attraction, already. That's kinda rambling, but it kinda makes sense.

If I was in this situation, my first reaction would be to remind him that I can't help what I'm attracted to. Then I'd probably clarify that it's him who I love, and if I enjoy, say, touching his belly, it's because it's his belly. But I have no idea if any of that would work.


My advice would be to think about what is important to you in a marriage. And if both of you feel that marriage is right, you'll both come to a compromise. And the only way to do that is to discuss what you are feeling with him.


Best of luck and I really hope things end up working out!! <3 <3

[Goreki]

My only advice, lovely, is to give it a little time, then talk it through.

Call him on that fight. Tell him exactly how hurling abuse at you made you feel, and tell him that it's not acceptable. There's a difference between him having body image issues, and him taking those issues out on you in such a manner.

Sit down and discuss it as calmly as you can manage. Keep your voice low, and use words like "that makes me feel" or "I felt" or "it sounded to me like"
Do NOT let him blow you off or dismiss how you're feeling. Make sure he listens to you, and that you're listening to him.
Be very, VERY clear that you will not stand for it again.

I hope it all works out for you both.