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Old 01-31-2009, 10:05 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ernest Nagel View Post
I think queer or anything else is fine so long as people don't define you by that. Any name gets ugly when it dehumanizes someone, reduces them to a single characteristic or idea. I can use "beautiful" like a blunt instrument as soon as I refuse to see passed that. So saying that Julia is queer can be either vicious or kind, contingent on my awareness that she, as we all are, is many other things as well.

Really just wanted to get in on the first page and thread of the new Forum.
But what about people who happily define themselves as queer? As with any word, it's context and intent count for a lot. And by context, I mean that the person using the word and person hearing the word will both give meaning to it, meanings that may be contradictory....ga, I'm using too many words...it's only offensive if the person who's receiving it thinks it is. Same as with "Fat" or "fattie."
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:05 PM   #27
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Cors, I know how you feel, and I can agree, but the utopian in me (and the one who thinks cultural study theory can change the world) thinks that the more we embrace delinking identity from the materiality of the body and its desires/processes, the less oppressive society we'll all live in. I would also encourage any thin allies to claim a fat identity if they felt that it accurately reflected the way they approach the world in their bodies.

I guess in the here and now, it might dilute the activist activities for GLBTQ people, and fat people, my utopian views about identity, but in the long run, I think it would be very awesome.
I do agree with your points and wish they apply, but more likely than not claiming an identity that you are obviously not will just backfire in reality. At best, people get confused and at worst, they feel insulted.

As much as I consider myself a fat ally, I will get bashed on these boards and on the streets if I dare proclaim my emaciated self as fat, even if I mean it as a statement of solidarity. I mean, people here generally roll their eyes in disdain when a size 10 girl moans about her muffin top and thunder thighs, even if said girl gets a fair amount of shit from her peers for being "fat" and feel that way about herself. To people who are supersized, the struggles are not even comparable.
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:42 PM   #28
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That's the only real problem with the word "fat" as an identifier. As crazy as it sounds, it's just not easily defined, and when we all talk about it, sometimes I find myself wondering what other people's frame of reference is for it. It gets kinda frustrating.

I think the word queer might be easier to define on some level - at least to someone who doesn't really have to think about what it means you know - that is someone who is straight and doesn't have to interact with gay people.

I think it's an okay word.
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:25 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by olwen View Post
That's the only real problem with the word "fat" as an identifier. As crazy as it sounds, it's just not easily defined, and when we all talk about it, sometimes I find myself wondering what other people's frame of reference is for it. It gets kinda frustrating.

I think the word queer might be easier to define on some level - at least to someone who doesn't really have to think about what it means you know - that is someone who is straight and doesn't have to interact with gay people.

I think it's an okay word.
True.

Well, there is the whole visibility issue. A femme who blends in isn't going to get as much flak as butches do but that is a topic for another thread.
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:33 PM   #30
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People tell me "Oh, so you're bi?" but... for some reason, I just really don't like the term "bi"... Bisexual's ok, but I don't know...
It's hard to explain. haha.
You know what I don't like about "bi?" Hm, how do I put this to not sound like a total bitch....?

Screw it, I can't - all the trendy bitches who hug their friend and then claim to be "bi." Not bisexual, not a lesbian, dyke, anything else...bi. Clearly, they're not interested in women, but maybe they think they become more appealing to men by saying that they are. I don't really know the motive. Yes...that is my beef with bi. Haha.

Queer, on the other hand, I like
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Old 01-31-2009, 05:43 PM   #31
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You know what I don't like about "bi?" Hm, how do I put this to not sound like a total bitch....?

Screw it, I can't - all the trendy bitches who hug their friend and then claim to be "bi." Not bisexual, not a lesbian, dyke, anything else...bi. Clearly, they're not interested in women, but maybe they think they become more appealing to men by saying that they are. I don't really know the motive. Yes...that is my beef with bi. Haha.

Queer, on the other hand, I like
This is pretty much what I had in mind when I started the thread on Bisexuality. Its a label girls easily give to themselves and that's fine if its what they truly are, or truly believe they are. But to ham it up or pretend to be "naughty" or get attention, well it takes away from the validity of it as a genuine sexual preference.
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Old 01-31-2009, 06:23 PM   #32
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You know what I don't like about "bi?" Hm, how do I put this to not sound like a total bitch....?

Screw it, I can't - all the trendy bitches who hug their friend and then claim to be "bi." Not bisexual, not a lesbian, dyke, anything else...bi. Clearly, they're not interested in women, but maybe they think they become more appealing to men by saying that they are. I don't really know the motive. Yes...that is my beef with bi. Haha.

Queer, on the other hand, I like
Haha. That's actually, my biggest issue with it.
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:55 PM   #33
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I like the word queer and I am glad it is not offensive. I just like the sound of it. Its a neat word. =)
As far as the word bi goes, if I kiss a girl or something like that, people will ask if I am bi...and I say, "nope, I just think girls are fabulous kissers" Which is the truth. I have never sought attention from a girl. It usually just happens. So, I dont use the word bi to describe myself.
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Old 02-01-2009, 07:48 AM   #34
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Ok I admit I did not know that it was acceptable to use or say the word queer.
I have always thought of it as being bad as if looking down upon in the gay world, I have learned something today. It will take some getting used to reading the word and thinking it is a good thing. I am very glad this thread is here I now have somewhere else on the net where I feel I belong.
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:46 AM   #35
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I don't ever use the word to describe myself but I don't have any issues with those that do. I think its great the community reclaimed the word and uses it with pride.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:04 PM   #36
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I don't mind the word queer but I rarely use it. I used to dislike it because of it's negative connotation but I don't mind it as much anymore.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:35 AM   #37
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I do agree with your points and wish they apply, but more likely than not claiming an identity that you are obviously not will just backfire in reality. At best, people get confused and at worst, they feel insulted.

As much as I consider myself a fat ally, I will get bashed on these boards and on the streets if I dare proclaim my emaciated self as fat, even if I mean it as a statement of solidarity. I mean, people here generally roll their eyes in disdain when a size 10 girl moans about her muffin top and thunder thighs, even if said girl gets a fair amount of shit from her peers for being "fat" and feel that way about herself. To people who are supersized, the struggles are not even comparable.
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Originally Posted by olwen View Post
That's the only real problem with the word "fat" as an identifier. As crazy as it sounds, it's just not easily defined, and when we all talk about it, sometimes I find myself wondering what other people's frame of reference is for it. It gets kinda frustrating.

I think the word queer might be easier to define on some level - at least to someone who doesn't really have to think about what it means you know - that is someone who is straight and doesn't have to interact with gay people.

I think it's an okay word.
Hmm.. this is interesting. People are accepted when they say they are queer/queer identified/bi-sexual. By this i mean what they say is accepted. Whereas if someone identifies with being "fat" if they are smaller than x,y,z they may be derided for it.
I suppose on one hand, Fat is Physical and cannot be supressed (or can it?) but it is also subjective and relative to location,historics,family,peers etc.
For example my friend went to boarding school in hong kong about 15 years ago. At that time no one there was fat. She was pretty chubby and she said that All the guys would stare at her boobs because it was unusual to be anything other than elfin there, geographically and historically. Actually i have another friend who went to japan for a year and said the same thing. That she "felt" fat. By all means she WAS fat.
I think we are touching on something really interesting here though..
Can "fat" be spititual, emotional and subjective..or is it always only just about bodies?
Like if i said i felt like a "fat person" on the inside or that i was "fat identified" even though i KNEW i was much thinner than my peers should that be questioned? How do you know what it feels like to feel fat unless you are fat? There are many women who say they "feel" fat when they are getting their period when they have always been "thin"..
is this akin to a transgendered person in a male body saying they feel like a woman on the inside? How does one know what "feeling like a woman" on the inside feels like unless you have been one?
i feel i am on the verge of a big thought..but its not quite fully formed.. so here you go- the fetus of my hypothesis!!
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:19 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by mergirl View Post
Hmm.. this is interesting. People are accepted when they say they are queer/queer identified/bi-sexual. By this i mean what they say is accepted. Whereas if someone identifies with being "fat" if they are smaller than x,y,z they may be derided for it.
I suppose on one hand, Fat is Physical and cannot be supressed (or can it?) but it is also subjective and relative to location,historics,family,peers etc.
For example my friend went to boarding school in hong kong about 15 years ago. At that time no one there was fat. She was pretty chubby and she said that All the guys would stare at her boobs because it was unusual to be anything other than elfin there, geographically and historically. Actually i have another friend who went to japan for a year and said the same thing. That she "felt" fat. By all means she WAS fat.
I think we are touching on something really interesting here though..
Can "fat" be spititual, emotional and subjective..or is it always only just about bodies?
Like if i said i felt like a "fat person" on the inside or that i was "fat identified" even though i KNEW i was much thinner than my peers should that be questioned? How do you know what it feels like to feel fat unless you are fat? There are many women who say they "feel" fat when they are getting their period when they have always been "thin"..
is this akin to a transgendered person in a male body saying they feel like a woman on the inside? How does one know what "feeling like a woman" on the inside feels like unless you have been one?
i feel i am on the verge of a big thought..but its not quite fully formed.. so here you go- the fetus of my hypothesis!!
Mer, whatever train you're on, I think it's the right one....the converse could probably be true too, you know that saying, in every fat person there's a thin one waiting to come out. How often are we told we should feel thin? If you've never been thin, how can you know what that is supposed to feel like? Why should thin be the default, and why should fat people be demonized for not feeling it right? How often does anybody go around saying they feel thin?
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