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Old 05-17-2009, 01:36 PM   #51
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:14 AM   #52
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Default Just crackin' open the ol' can of worms...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mergirl View Post
I have been wondering for a while; How much having an added 'fetish' (for want of a better word) onto being an Fa eg. Also being a feeder, encourager etc. divides you from regular Fa's with no added twist?.
Do you think Fat people or other Fa's treat you differently if you have an added 'fetish'?
What are your feelings on this divide?
Do you think that there are ways that you think people could be better educated to added aspects that can come with being an Fa?.
Does the fetishistic side make you behave differently? ie. are you more defensive? etc.
You dont have to answer all these questions, they are just thoughts to get a discussion started or not! Just any of your thoughts on this really.
In my mind, the problem with this whole discussion is what I believe to be the myth of “fetish”. Attempting to create a discussion comparing those who consider their preferences “fetish” against those who consider themselves to have no “fetish” is a vague foundation for comparison at best.

Simply look at the definition of fetish:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fetish

The key to this definition seems to be "fixation”

“Fetishism” in the sexual context:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism

"the sexual arousal brought on by objects, situations or body parts not conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature"

Just with these definitions, fetish could be regarded as a “fixation” based on some criteria that is viewed as not being "conventional" by society... So if this conversation is to proceed in any rational sort of fashion, we must divide ourselves into groups of those who have preferences of an "unconventional" nature and those who have preferences of a "conventional' nature. Is a man who "admires" large breasts considered to have a "fetish"? By most definitions no, because breasts are "conventionally" considered to be "sexual in nature". But a man who "fixates" on breasts and has no interest in any other characteristics of this woman is just as unlikely to have a successful relationship with said woman than a "feeder" who "fixates" on bellies would have with a woman. It would seem to me that the basis for comparison in this conversation is for those who "fixate" and those who don't, than attempting to draw some comparison on something as vague as "fetish". The only true fetish is fetish itself and those who, for whatever reason, choose to define themselves as "fetishists". As a personal example - I like fat women, and I like how fat wobbles on BBWs and how it sloshes on SSBBWS... Does that make me a "fetishist"? Yes it does, but only if I fixate on wobbling and sloshing fat. The basis here for "fetish" is fixation. Fat can be viewed as a fetish if we either fixate on it, or if society doesn't consider fat "conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature". Fat can become "non-fetish" either if we don't fixate on it, or if society views fat as being something conventional or mainstream. Assuming that we here in Dimensions have a common goal of advocating fat as becoming mainstream (whatever fat may be, the physical aspect, the metaphoric aspect, whatever...) then the basis here for creating a class of people called "fetishists" is that of fixation. I think the word "fixation" speaks for itself for those who wish to define themselves as "fetishists".

I know Mergirl, that you probably intended this thread more for those "fetishists" who feel somehow alienated or singled out in some way, but I just wanted to add this to this conversation because I have yet to see this discussed in general and I think this is the root of what you are discussing here. It's probably fitting for me to toss this into the conversation because I'm probably viewed as one of Dim's most loudmouthed "vanilla squad" cheerleaders although I could probably be considered as "fetish" as any FA here.

For those who have been here for any amount of time, I'm sure you know that the "feeders" have been villainized for quite some time. It's really only been within the last few years (3-5 years?) that "feederism" and the discussion of "feederism" has become more commonly acceptable here in Dimensions and elsewhere. (I would say maybe since the weight board was created, and especially since it was divided into the sub-categories it now has.) Now it almost seems that everything weight gain related (whether it be unintentional weight gain, or intentional weight gain...) is defined as being that of "feederism". My point thus being how ridiculous this conversation is of there being a "divide" between "fetishist feeders" and "non-fetish vanilla types" when the whole topic of weight gain (whether intentional or unintentional...) is as ill-defined as it is, especially being that Dimensions is supposed to be the place where such things are best understood.

I know this is a whole thread by itself, and a digression to the topic of this thread… Just as an example… Whatever happened to the idea of purposeful weight gain (fat, instead of muscle) called “body building”? There are other forms of purposeful weight gain other than “feeding” such as what could be considered “recreational eating”, not just eating to gain weight for sexual purposes. I would even go so far to say that many of the people here who consider themselves “fetishists” base this idea of being attracted to weight gain on the premise that gaining weight is always unhealthful and that their attraction to weight gain is some sort of bad thing because weight gain is always unhealthful, or “bad” in some sort of way. What I’m trying to say is that there is so much uncharted territory here in our perceptions of fat, weight gain and those who are attracted to fat and weight gain, and to what extent, that this whole conversation is based on such an ill founded premise that it is ultimately pointless.

Returning to topic… Perhaps some of the friction between “feeders” and “non-feeders” is related to the fact that weight gain in general and the attraction to fat and someone gaining weight is still so ill defined in many ways, and the concepts of “fetish” and “feederism” are just muddying the waters even more?
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:44 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Dr. P Marshall View Post
I just saw this post. I love you mer, but how am I going to get my real life work done if you keep making me think.

I freely admit that there are members of the group of "my kind" who make me uncomfortable/creep me out with their BEHAVIOR. But in terms of what goes through a fetishist's mind, or what they fantasize about, I really have no problem. To be honest, the people with the more extreme fantasies do not generate disgust from me, I actually really feel for them because I know that a fetish is something you can't control and I couldn't imagine having something go through your head that you couldn't possibly do in real life and that was the only or primary thing that aroused you.

I am speaking only for me, but I thought maybe I could explain how it works for me. I admit that I actually have a pretty hardwired, hardcore weight gain fetish. It's what really brought me to Dims. All gaining really excites me, and my ultimate fantasy would be pretty significant weight gain. But for me, what I will engage in is very different from what I get turned on by. The only way I can think of to explain my relationship to my fetish to a non-fetishist FA is to compare it to the feelings FAs often have about partner weight loss. You want what's best for the other person, you know what you would do to keep them happy goes against what your ultimate sexual desires are, you feel guilty about it, but you try to do the right thing for everyone in the situation and in order to not completely lose your mind/ruin your relationship to the person, you try not to beat yourself up all the time to the point that you become a thoroughly dysfunctional mess.

I would also add that, for me anyway, there is a division in the mind even as things are happening sometimes between the "Dr.P the person" part of my brain and my sexual brain. I will use a real example from my past to try to illustrate. I prefer larger BHM, but my ex was actually a smaller one. His weight would fluctuate and he had a very bad back problem, so when he was heavier, he struggled more. I hated watching him struggle at the higher weight, it almost brought me to tears when sometimes he actually needed help. BUT, I cannot deny that in terms of my sexual response, it was always much stronger when he had gained some weight recently. Don't think I didn't hate myself for that one. I did. He also wasn't happier with himself at the higher weight and he would get frustrated. One day, he snapped his belt. It just came right off. Now, in my head, I was already thinking about how to help him LOSE weight and get to where he would be happier and all of the things that he needed and it was all sincere. The thoughts in my head were sincere. The lower part of my body, however, was having a completely different response to the snapped belt. Even as a woman, I can always tell the difference when I'm really turned on and I very definitely was.

So that divide in the mind/body, that inability to control what turns you on, that I get completely no matter what the person's turn on may be. That is why even if I don't understand the most extreme turn ons among the fetishists, I at least feel that I understand how it feels to have them. Now what someone does and how they treat other people in real life and chat is a whole other issue. No fetish gives anyone the right to make another person uncomfortable, or to manipulate them, or to just be a clueless, callous horndog all the time. I have no problem with people calling out the fetishists who misbehave. But that should be true of non-fetishist FAs too. What I sometimes find hurtful and often resent is that there is a sense that only fetishists are creepy, or capable of dehumanizing someone. There is also a sense that many people think we can't control ourselves at all. And that's not fair. We are as diverse as any other segment of the FA population in who we are as people, what our moral compasses are and all of the other things that makes a person who we are. Sometimes around here I feel like being a fetishist means I have to reaffirm my humanity with my every breath and that seems like an unfair burden to put on an entire group of people. I think many fetishists are VERY aware of those in our midst who behave in an alarming manner, but I know I would never chat with some guy and dehumanize him by way of introduction, and I have a serious fetish, so I am inclined to believe that many other fetishists are like me as well. It's just that the creeps are the ones people think of because they are out there and in your face and they upset people and more people talk about them and focus on them.

I understand why other members of the community are leery of us, I just don't think it's fair. I think at the very least we deserve to be taken on a case by case basis. So when I see things about "good FA" and I know the person means a non fetishist, yeah, it actually hurts, to be honest. And half the time I know that person actually knows me on the boards and likes me and they don't mean me, but they need to realize, they do. I think a general sensitivity about over generalizing would be nice. I don't think anyone has to understand it, or agree with it, but I hope with this board and the chance to talk about it, other community members will at least start seeing us as individuals and not all the same. I don't deny there are some horrible things that happen in the fetishist world, but it doesn't happen with all of us. Many of us would never want to go there in a million years, but we may want to talk about it without always being lumped in with the guys you see on the exploitative talk shows.

I don't mean this in a hostile, or defensive way, either. I have felt very welcomed by this community and I think the non-fetishist/fetishist FA split is actually a real shame. In general we have a lot in common, especially issues like guilt and balancing desires with concern for our partners and all of the other things. I think the other FAs could accept us as fetishist/FAs without having to feel that they are condoning anything. You can always support and accept the people, even if you don't accept their desires and fantasies. I think that would make the fetishists who are thoughtful and caring feel more a part of the community and would leave the creeps alone where they belong instead of making a lot of perfectly nice people feel like monsters all of the time. That's just my theory, I could be wrong.
I agree completely with ALL of this. Thank you for putting this to words Dr. P.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:10 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. P Marshall View Post

...

Sometimes around here I feel like being a fetishist means I have to reaffirm my humanity with my every breath and that seems like an unfair burden to put on an entire group of people.

...
I completely agree that all of us should treat each other as humans!


Quote:
Sexual fetishism, or erotic fetishism, is the sexual arousal brought on by objects, situations or body parts not conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature. Sexual fetishism may be regarded, e.g. in psychiatric medicine, as a disorder of sexual preference or as an enhancing element to a relationship.The sexual acts of fetishes are characteristically depersonalized and objectified, even when they involve a partner.[1]
Maybe the "fetishists" here aren't "fetish" after all if they like don't like to be dehumanized by others. That is somewhat of a contradiction in terms to the definition of a fetish. Perhaps what is often considered "fetish" here in Dimensions is simply activity of people who happen to find pleasure in certain quirky aspects of the human condition?
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:15 AM   #55
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I completely agree that all of us should treat each other as humans!
Can't i treat you like a fat edible doormouse? If not then why?
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:02 PM   #56
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Can't i treat you like a fat edible doormouse? If not then why?
Whatever turns you on Mer! Squeak squeak... munch munch...
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:25 PM   #57
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oh gosh... i'm wondering whether to change my quote to "squeak squeak munch munch"..
my, what a tease you are!
Mousalicious!!
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:39 PM   #58
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what a twist!

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Old 05-19-2009, 11:20 AM   #59
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I’m not sure if this is really the right thread for this comment, but it came to mind after re-reading Dr.P’s post that Lilly quoted above (thanks for bringing attention back to it, Lilly!).

One thing I learned quickly as a parent is that kids want attention, and a lot of the time will do whatever it takes to get it. They prefer good attention, but they will prefer bad attention to no attention.

I don’t suppose any of us ever totally outgrow that. Some of the people with particular sexual twists may just be jerks in general, but I wonder if some of the bad behavior comes from some of those people thinking that they have no chance of getting good attention around their particular kink? That is, they either never expect to meet someone who is really into it, and/or they don’t think they have the social and romantic skills to successfully start and maintain a relationship which would give their kink any room. At which point, if they can’t restrain their sexuality, they may use tactics that they know are not appropriate, just to get some sort of attention relating to their kink?

Which in some ways is no different from anyone else who is sexually frustrated and takes it out on those around them inappropriately, but I could imagine that the portion of people with a real kink who could end up feeling that way might be higher than amongst those with more vanilla preferences, or those with a more compliant (as in they can readily adapt to whatever their partner likes) sexual nature. There could even be cases where someone with a kink is getting their more regular needs met, but not the less usual ones, and lacking the maturity or control, they act out around the unmet part of their sexual nature.

So much as I’d hate to admit it, I could imagine that a higher proportion of people with strong sexual twists will behave badly around others with regard to those twists, as I don’t think any greater maturity or self-control get automatically handed out with a more twisted sexual nature.

Having said all of that, yes I also get tired of all being painted with the same brush. I recall more than once being in the old chat rooms when others started all complaining about feeders, how creepy they were, what horrible people they were. Eventually I’d point out that I’m a feeder, at least if you go by sexual desires. I’d quickly point out some differences between desires and actions and consensual and non-consensual practices, and there would be a round of “Of course we didn’t mean you! Obviously not everyone with those desires is a monster.” Then the chat room would usually be pretty quiet for a while for the next little while. I’m not sure that I ever really changed anyone’s actual opinions, but hopefully at least some became a little more careful with their words.
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:35 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by edx View Post
I’m not sure if this is really the right thread for this comment, but it came to mind after re-reading Dr.P’s post that Lilly quoted above (thanks for bringing attention back to it, Lilly!).

One thing I learned quickly as a parent is that kids want attention, and a lot of the time will do whatever it takes to get it. They prefer good attention, but they will prefer bad attention to no attention.

I don’t suppose any of us ever totally outgrow that. Some of the people with particular sexual twists may just be jerks in general, but I wonder if some of the bad behavior comes from some of those people thinking that they have no chance of getting good attention around their particular kink? That is, they either never expect to meet someone who is really into it, and/or they don’t think they have the social and romantic skills to successfully start and maintain a relationship which would give their kink any room. At which point, if they can’t restrain their sexuality, they may use tactics that they know are not appropriate, just to get some sort of attention relating to their kink?

Which in some ways is no different from anyone else who is sexually frustrated and takes it out on those around them inappropriately, but I could imagine that the portion of people with a real kink who could end up feeling that way might be higher than amongst those with more vanilla preferences, or those with a more compliant (as in they can readily adapt to whatever their partner likes) sexual nature. There could even be cases where someone with a kink is getting their more regular needs met, but not the less usual ones, and lacking the maturity or control, they act out around the unmet part of their sexual nature.

So much as I’d hate to admit it, I could imagine that a higher proportion of people with strong sexual twists will behave badly around others with regard to those twists, as I don’t think any greater maturity or self-control get automatically handed out with a more twisted sexual nature.

Having said all of that, yes I also get tired of all being painted with the same brush. I recall more than once being in the old chat rooms when others started all complaining about feeders, how creepy they were, what horrible people they were. Eventually I’d point out that I’m a feeder, at least if you go by sexual desires. I’d quickly point out some differences between desires and actions and consensual and non-consensual practices, and there would be a round of “Of course we didn’t mean you! Obviously not everyone with those desires is a monster.” Then the chat room would usually be pretty quiet for a while for the next little while. I’m not sure that I ever really changed anyone’s actual opinions, but hopefully at least some became a little more careful with their words.


Edx, I admire you for all your views on DIMS, and for thread such as this where you take the time to explain and try to info people of such "taboo's"( as I am eatting a BLT heheheh) I am not big into gaining, myself, I do gain till i get to 300 then lose again and then gain again on purpose. I enjoy it. Feeling the difference in my body size and shape! I have noticed, that some, not all the chat room peeps are quick to judge and put people down for their differences as well. And they dont wanna hear what you have to say, sooo true. But there are alot of peeps in there that are always welcoming as well. Not everyone has to agree or even be on the same page as some of us. But respect that fact we are all different people and the chat is there for everyone to enjoy! ANyways, EDX,.... to you sir!!
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:51 AM   #61
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I believe that no one is just plain FA, anyone has a twist here or there, and it could just be a dormant twist that hasn't been awakened yet, or is closeted until that FA realizes he/she isn't the only one that likes that twist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mergirl View Post
I have been wondering for a while; How much having an added 'fetish' (for want of a better word) onto being an Fa eg. Also being a feeder, encourager etc. divides you from regular Fa's with no added twist?.
Do you think Fat people or other Fa's treat you differently if you have an added 'fetish'?
What are your feelings on this divide?
Do you think that there are ways that you think people could be better educated to added aspects that can come with being an Fa?.
Does the fetishistic side make you behave differently? ie. are you more defensive? etc.
You dont have to answer all these questions, they are just thoughts to get a discussion started or not! Just any of your thoughts on this really.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:05 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by edx View Post
I’m not sure if this is really the right thread for this comment, but it came to mind after re-reading Dr.P’s post that Lilly quoted above (thanks for bringing attention back to it, Lilly!).

One thing I learned quickly as a parent is that kids want attention, and a lot of the time will do whatever it takes to get it. They prefer good attention, but they will prefer bad attention to no attention.

I don’t suppose any of us ever totally outgrow that. Some of the people with particular sexual twists may just be jerks in general, but I wonder if some of the bad behavior comes from some of those people thinking that they have no chance of getting good attention around their particular kink? That is, they either never expect to meet someone who is really into it, and/or they don’t think they have the social and romantic skills to successfully start and maintain a relationship which would give their kink any room. At which point, if they can’t restrain their sexuality, they may use tactics that they know are not appropriate, just to get some sort of attention relating to their kink?

Which in some ways is no different from anyone else who is sexually frustrated and takes it out on those around them inappropriately, but I could imagine that the portion of people with a real kink who could end up feeling that way might be higher than amongst those with more vanilla preferences, or those with a more compliant (as in they can readily adapt to whatever their partner likes) sexual nature. There could even be cases where someone with a kink is getting their more regular needs met, but not the less usual ones, and lacking the maturity or control, they act out around the unmet part of their sexual nature.

So much as I’d hate to admit it, I could imagine that a higher proportion of people with strong sexual twists will behave badly around others with regard to those twists, as I don’t think any greater maturity or self-control get automatically handed out with a more twisted sexual nature.

Having said all of that, yes I also get tired of all being painted with the same brush. I recall more than once being in the old chat rooms when others started all complaining about feeders, how creepy they were, what horrible people they were. Eventually I’d point out that I’m a feeder, at least if you go by sexual desires. I’d quickly point out some differences between desires and actions and consensual and non-consensual practices, and there would be a round of “Of course we didn’t mean you! Obviously not everyone with those desires is a monster.” Then the chat room would usually be pretty quiet for a while for the next little while. I’m not sure that I ever really changed anyone’s actual opinions, but hopefully at least some became a little more careful with their words.
I've often sensed more of a 'nothing to lose' type of attitude with most of the guys I've run into online. Granted I hate chat and IM so I'm rarely on there at all these days. In the early days though when it was still a novlety to me I recall being hit up with these oddly blunt inquiries. It seemed to me that a lot of them were just dirty old men looking to get off behind the veil of the internet. Some though seemed to be sincere in their hope/faith there has to be a lid for every pot. Somebody out there is going to dig it. "I know they exist because 'Miss February' of Pr0n Weekly said she likes it so I'll keep looking." The fact that they go about it all the wrong way has more to do with a personal lack of finesse and not to do with the actual kink.
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:18 PM   #63
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I... honestly have been twisted so many times, I look like a pretzel. lol

I'm pretty much a normal FA in my opinion. However, I will say that I do have a small fetish with weight gain and the like. It kinda excites me to see a big gal get even bigger. But that's not the reason I'm an FA. I'm an FA because I can appreciate the curves of the woman instead of the fact they're gaining weight. And like I said before, I appreciate the beauty of a big woman, not the fat of a big woman.

I can be REALLY intellectual when given the chance.
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:48 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmann0413 View Post
I... honestly have been twisted so many times, I look like a pretzel. lol

I'm pretty much a normal FA in my opinion. However, I will say that I do have a small fetish with weight gain and the like. It kinda excites me to see a big gal get even bigger. But that's not the reason I'm an FA. I'm an FA because I can appreciate the curves of the woman instead of the fact they're gaining weight. And like I said before, I appreciate the beauty of a big woman, not the fat of a big woman.

I can be REALLY intellectual when given the chance.
I tried to rep you for that part Lloyd- but my meter has ran low again. Will have to come back for you
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:07 PM   #65
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Rep is done Greenie.

I'm still a boring plain whatever you want to call me. lol
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:22 PM   #66
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Thanks Jon
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