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Old 07-23-2009, 12:36 AM   #1
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I suggest we move the discussion about language over here, to this thread in the GLBTQ forum, so we can help that poor thread in the lounge die a natural death. I think it's more appropriate to discuss words that apply to us GLBTQ folks and allies here on this forum, anyway. Plus, we can use the real words here and have a real discussion about it, or at least I hope we can. I am damn tired of having to say "d-word", for one thing.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:05 AM   #2
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I personally don't mind the d-word in a non-negative connotation, and yes, i think that can exist.
I jokingly call myself a crazy dyke all the time. My friend addresses me as the raging dyke. It's just not a big deal.
I also don't mind homo. I love homo. That's pretty much my favorite word to use, because again, I don't use it negatively.
I... don't know what my point was.

oh oh oh. margaret cho moment:
"i don't know why the call me fat dyke and think it's going to offend me. It just means i'mma eat fried chicken and pussy."

I love ms. cho
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Old 07-23-2009, 03:14 AM   #3
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Maby it depends on your experiences with the word. I was 'out' at school when i was 14 and while 17 years can make a world of difference in how gay rights and queer termonology have moved on, memories tend to get imprinted. You don't easily forget having 'Lisa is a fucking Dyke' spray painted pretty much everywhere in your school and in all the walls and tunnels that you pass on the way there, neither do you forget getting slammed into walls or spat at while people say 'Fucking Dyke'.
I appreaciate this word has been reclaimed by some and i respect the right for anyone to use it in a productive way if it makes them feel happy or empowered. Personally, i hate the word and when it is used in a way to disempower me (as it was when i took objection) then i hate it even more.
In this sense i think it is like the N-word. Some people use it when referring to other people within their race but many black people hate the word, because of the horrible conotations it has. Also, its unacceptable to use it outside a particular cultural group.
What is it you want exactly here? To be able to have 'Dyke' used by non queer people and outside this board? See, i can't think of any reason this would ever come up in a friendly context anyway. If your friends want to call you a Dyke in a friendly way on the other forums can't they just use their imaginations and call you something else instead?
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:39 AM   #4
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Yeah, even though I've never had any personal experience with being called a dyke in a negative sense, i agree with mer. It is a word I use very rarely because when I hear it, I think of all the people I know who have been physcially hurt by people using that name during an attack.

Even though I haven't said it yet, I am glad you're back, mer, and hope you stay, even as I understand why this may not be possible.
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:41 AM   #5
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Yeah, even though I've never had any personal experience with being called a dyke in a negative sense, i agree with mer. It is a word I use very rarely because when I hear it, I think of all the people I know who have been physcially hurt by people using that name during an attack.

Even though I haven't said it yet, I am glad you're back, mer, and hope you stay, even as I understand why this may not be possible.
Thank you. xx
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:13 AM   #6
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Maby it depends on your experiences with the word. I was 'out' at school when i was 14 and while 17 years can make a world of difference in how gay rights and queer termonology have moved on, memories tend to get imprinted. You don't easily forget having 'Lisa is a fucking Dyke' spray painted pretty much everywhere in your school and in all the walls and tunnels that you pass on the way there, neither do you forget getting slammed into walls or spat at while people say 'Fucking Dyke'.
I appreaciate this word has been reclaimed by some and i respect the right for anyone to use it in a productive way if it makes them feel happy or empowered. Personally, i hate the word and when it is used in a way to disempower me (as it was when i took objection) then i hate it even more.
In this sense i think it is like the N-word. Some people use it when referring to other people within their race but many black people hate the word, because of the horrible conotations it has. Also, its unacceptable to use it outside a particular cultural group.
What is it you want exactly here? To be able to have 'Dyke' used by non queer people and outside this board? See, i can't think of any reason this would ever come up in a friendly context anyway. If your friends want to call you a Dyke in a friendly way on the other forums can't they just use their imaginations and call you something else instead?
I'm sorry that you had to go through all that Lisa.

It saddens me when people don't understand how a word can be offensive or not depending on the context, especially if they are of a different generation or just privileged.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:19 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by mergirl View Post
Maby it depends on your experiences with the word. I was 'out' at school when i was 14 and while 17 years can make a world of difference in how gay rights and queer termonology have moved on, memories tend to get imprinted. You don't easily forget having 'Lisa is a fucking Dyke' spray painted pretty much everywhere in your school and in all the walls and tunnels that you pass on the way there, neither do you forget getting slammed into walls or spat at while people say 'Fucking Dyke'.
I appreaciate this word has been reclaimed by some and i respect the right for anyone to use it in a productive way if it makes them feel happy or empowered. Personally, i hate the word and when it is used in a way to disempower me (as it was when i took objection) then i hate it even more.
In this sense i think it is like the N-word. Some people use it when referring to other people within their race but many black people hate the word, because of the horrible conotations it has. Also, its unacceptable to use it outside a particular cultural group.
What is it you want exactly here? To be able to have 'Dyke' used by non queer people and outside this board? See, i can't think of any reason this would ever come up in a friendly context anyway. If your friends want to call you a Dyke in a friendly way on the other forums can't they just use their imaginations and call you something else instead?
I'm sorry that you had to go through all that Lisa.

It saddens me when people don't understand how a word can be offensive or not depending on the context, especially if they are of a different generation or just privileged.
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:14 AM   #8
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That sounds reasonable, but someone once told me I shouldn't trust anyone over 30.

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Originally Posted by mergirl View Post
Maby it depends on your experiences with the word. I was 'out' at school when i was 14 and while 17 years can make a world of difference in how gay rights and queer termonology have moved on, memories tend to get imprinted. You don't easily forget having 'Lisa is a fucking Dyke' spray painted pretty much everywhere in your school and in all the walls and tunnels that you pass on the way there, neither do you forget getting slammed into walls or spat at while people say 'Fucking Dyke'.
I appreaciate this word has been reclaimed by some and i respect the right for anyone to use it in a productive way if it makes them feel happy or empowered. Personally, i hate the word and when it is used in a way to disempower me (as it was when i took objection) then i hate it even more.
In this sense i think it is like the N-word. Some people use it when referring to other people within their race but many black people hate the word, because of the horrible conotations it has. Also, its unacceptable to use it outside a particular cultural group.
What is it you want exactly here? To be able to have 'Dyke' used by non queer people and outside this board? See, i can't think of any reason this would ever come up in a friendly context anyway. If your friends want to call you a Dyke in a friendly way on the other forums can't they just use their imaginations and call you something else instead?
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by mergirl View Post
What is it you want exactly here? To be able to have 'Dyke' used by non queer people and outside this board? See, i can't think of any reason this would ever come up in a friendly context anyway. If your friends want to call you a Dyke in a friendly way on the other forums can't they just use their imaginations and call you something else instead?
Mer,

First of all, I'm sorry to hear you've had such a horrible time with bigotry and violence. I honestly didn't know you had such a negative experience with the word.

Aside from the mean post directed towards you, I've only seen "dyke" used positively or neutrally and in an appropriate context on Dimensions, and mostly by GLBTQ folks. Plus a few "Penis Van Lesbian" jokes, that kind of thing. Please understand, I wasn't asking for it to be ok for people to use it innapropriately. I just didn't think the word should be completely banned on other forums.

I don't think banning *any* word is the solution, actually. I think the whole this-word, that-word euphemism thing just gives the words more negative power.

I'm not going to waste my time and energy campaigning against the ban on using the word in other forums. With the way I've seen threads degenerate on other boards, perhaps the rule is a good idea. I'm not saying I have the only right opinion here. I guess I can see how a hateful person might get the idea that a word was ok to (mis)use by seeing others use it in other forums.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:40 PM   #10
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Mer,

First of all, I'm sorry to hear you've had such a horrible time with bigotry and violence. I honestly didn't know you had such a negative experience with the word.

Aside from the mean post directed towards you, I've only seen "dyke" used positively or neutrally and in an appropriate context on Dimensions, and mostly by GLBTQ folks. Plus a few "Penis Van Lesbian" jokes, that kind of thing. Please understand, I wasn't asking for it to be ok for people to use it innapropriately. I just didn't think the word should be completely banned on other forums.

I don't think banning *any* word is the solution, actually. I think the whole this-word, that-word euphemism thing just gives the words more negative power.

I'm not going to waste my time and energy campaigning against the ban on using the word in other forums. With the way I've seen threads degenerate on other boards, perhaps the rule is a good idea. I'm not saying I have the only right opinion here. I guess I can see how a hateful person might get the idea that a word was ok to (mis)use by seeing others use it in other forums.
I've mostly heard the word used in a positive way; yesterday, after reading input from Mergirl, Butch, and another prominent lesbian community activist, it was clear to me that this word had a harmful aspect to it. It's hard sometimes to discern intent (I mean, we are talking about the Internet), so personally I feel it's best to not allow the word. It may be a killjoy, it may be excessive, but at least it's across-the-board fair.

Butch has her own approach, and, as we moderate different forums, we're not at cross purposes. That's just how we roll.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:48 PM   #11
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By the way, since I hear people mentioning age, I am 39. I went to an extremely homophobic high school where there wasn't an inkling of acceptance for being queer. I mostly heard "faggot" and "lez" or "lesbo", and occasionally "homo" and "queer" used as pejoratives, but not "dyke", as far as I can remember. When I got cornered in the girls bathroom, I got called a "lez".

I've almost always heard the word "dyke" used positively in real life. So, my whole experience of the word is almost entirely in a reclaimed sense. Maybe it's a regional thing. I grew up mostly in the Pacific Northwest. I've only heard the term as a pejorative maybe once or twice that I can think of. It's not like I grew up sheltered in some nice, liberal, middle-class neighborhood where everyone was accepting (oh, far, far from it--my background is pretty rough), it's that I haven't encountered the word "dyke" from assholes and haters that much.

I've always thought the word "dyke" sounded capable, tough, and smart. Dykes can fix things themselves. They wear whatever the fuck they want. They eat whatever the fuck they want. It's ok for a dyke to be fat. It's ok for a dyke to be hairy. It's ok for a dyke to be "unsexy". It's ok for a dyke to be "unfeminine". It's ok for a dyke to wear 5-inch stilettos, too. Fuck any other dykes that don't like it, either. It's ok for a dyke to be a slut. It's ok for a dyke to not put out. Dykes can fart in public and laugh about it. Dykes are allowed to have a sense of humor. Dykes can drink out directly of the milk carton and eat cake with their hands. In my opinion, a dyke can even fuck a guy if she wants. I think even a straight woman can be a dyke. Dykes are cool, like Pippi Longstocking and Eleanor Roosevelt.

That's what a dyke is to me, anyway. Oh, BTW, since I can't say it in the BBW fantasy thread, I like big hot dykes.
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Old 07-23-2009, 01:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Risible View Post
I've mostly heard the word used in a positive way; yesterday, after reading input from Mergirl, Butch, and another prominent lesbian community activist, it was clear to me that this word had a harmful aspect to it. It's hard sometimes to discern intent (I mean, we are talking about the Internet), so personally I feel it's best to not allow the word. It may be a killjoy, it may be excessive, but at least it's across-the-board fair.

Butch has her own approach, and, as we moderate different forums, we're not at cross purposes. That's just how we roll.
I can understand this. By the way, I didn't take your moderation of my post personally, even if I didn't like the result. It's ok. I understand it was an editing policy decision, not something personally against my post. Thank you for the explanation; I really appreciate it.
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Old 07-24-2009, 01:46 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Geektastic1 View Post
By the way, since I hear people mentioning age, I am 39. I went to an extremely homophobic high school where there wasn't an inkling of acceptance for being queer. I mostly heard "faggot" and "lez" or "lesbo", and occasionally "homo" and "queer" used as pejoratives, but not "dyke", as far as I can remember. When I got cornered in the girls bathroom, I got called a "lez".

I've almost always heard the word "dyke" used positively in real life. So, my whole experience of the word is almost entirely in a reclaimed sense. Maybe it's a regional thing. I grew up mostly in the Pacific Northwest. I've only heard the term as a pejorative maybe once or twice that I can think of. It's not like I grew up sheltered in some nice, liberal, middle-class neighborhood where everyone was accepting (oh, far, far from it--my background is pretty rough), it's that I haven't encountered the word "dyke" from assholes and haters that much.

I've always thought the word "dyke" sounded capable, tough, and smart. Dykes can fix things themselves. They wear whatever the fuck they want. They eat whatever the fuck they want. It's ok for a dyke to be fat. It's ok for a dyke to be hairy. It's ok for a dyke to be "unsexy". It's ok for a dyke to be "unfeminine". It's ok for a dyke to wear 5-inch stilettos, too. Fuck any other dykes that don't like it, either. It's ok for a dyke to be a slut. It's ok for a dyke to not put out. Dykes can fart in public and laugh about it. Dykes are allowed to have a sense of humor. Dykes can drink out directly of the milk carton and eat cake with their hands. In my opinion, a dyke can even fuck a guy if she wants. I think even a straight woman can be a dyke. Dykes are cool, like Pippi Longstocking and Eleanor Roosevelt.

That's what a dyke is to me, anyway. Oh, BTW, since I can't say it in the BBW fantasy thread, I like big hot dykes.
Oh, I wasn't referring to you. Please accept my apologies if it came across that way. It is just a pet peeve of mine that I encounter too often.
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Old 07-24-2009, 02:10 AM   #14
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That sounds reasonable, but someone once told me I shouldn't trust anyone over 30.
Its true, you shouldn't!!! Well, over 31!
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:40 AM   #15
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By the way, since I hear people mentioning age, I am 39. I went to an extremely homophobic high school where there wasn't an inkling of acceptance for being queer. I mostly heard "faggot" and "lez" or "lesbo", and occasionally "homo" and "queer" used as pejoratives, but not "dyke", as far as I can remember. When I got cornered in the girls bathroom, I got called a "lez".
Maby 'Dyke' as a negative is not so much of an American experience. In the Uk 'faggot' is not normally used but 'poof' is. This might be because over here you "Smoke a fag". When people say 'Dyke' over here it usually has 'fucking' as a pre-fix and is usually negative. Actually, ive never really heard it being used in a positive way..like "She is a great Dyke" .. Its maby just different for different people in different countries.
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:20 AM   #16
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I think generation and location play heavily into it. When I was younger "dyke", "lesbo", "butch", "homo", "faggot" and "bulldagger/bulldyke" (the blatantly masculine identifying lesbian. Used mostly in African American communities) were ALWAYS used as derogatory. It seems it's largely the younger generation (under 30) who have reclaimed these terms as their own.

Mergirl's analogy to the use of the word "nigger" is dead-on. I'm just old enough to have seen Jim Crow signs with my own eyes and have been called by that term with all the malice and hatred as was intended. I hear my sons friends use the word so easily; even though I know they are not using it in a negative way, something inside me still cringes. While "homo", "butch" and "lesbo" no longer have quite the same negative power it did thirty plus years ago, I admit use of the other terms still give me pause.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:20 AM   #17
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I love queers,dykes,homos,lezies etc all are great people.
In high school I got called a queer or fag quite a bit.
Went to a HS reunion after SRS and no big reaction.Everybody was very cool.
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