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Old 07-23-2009, 04:52 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Tad View Post
See, this is pretty classic. Guys should be confident, but not confident in a guy-guy, loud, proud, sort of way. Quietly confident is probably approved, confident but not actually liking most guy stuff is probably also good. But it does amuse me to see some people say “I want a partner who is confident” and then get aggravated about the mode of someone’s confidence.
Spot on and well put.
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:21 PM   #27
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I believe it is entirely unfair to assume that all BHMs are insecure. Of course there will be some sulking, whiney examples of masculinity, but this is very true of any body type. There will always be self-loathing individuals in the world.

It is absolutely ignorant to imply that it is the FFA's or the significant others' fault for the insecurity of the mate. I am a wholehearted proponent of personal responsibility, and it is your fault if you don't feel good about yourself.

Don't like something about yourself? Change it.

People can say what they want about external forces like other people's judgements of you or criticisms, but you are the final filter. You decide what sticks and what doesn't. If you let someone make you insecure, then that is your fault.

I'm as sensitive as the next fat pisces, but I learned a long time ago that loving yourself is step one in improving your life. You cannot let the world, people, and society determine your self worth. Only you can do that.

Us fat guys have innately thick skin literally, so why not figuratively?

/rant
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Old 07-24-2009, 02:49 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Tad View Post
See, this is pretty classic. Guys should be confident, but not confident in a guy-guy, loud, proud, sort of way.
YES! Cool and confident, laid back about it. He's the BHM who kicks back and doesn't care if the whole world notices his weight. He might even make a passing joke about it once in a while (with accompanying belly pat ) because he knows who he is and still has fun. He doesn't have to be an attention whore, but doesn't mind when all eyes are on him. (wait, is this a cologne ad?)

Anyway, the douche who feels the need to brag about himself is not the good kind of confident, no matter what size he is; it comes off as overcompensating.
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Old 07-24-2009, 03:19 AM   #29
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YES! Cool and confident, laid back about it. He's the BHM who kicks back and doesn't care if the whole world notices his weight. He might even make a passing joke about it once in a while (with accompanying belly pat ) because he knows who he is and still has fun. He doesn't have to be an attention whore, but doesn't mind when all eyes are on him. (wait, is this a cologne ad?)

Anyway, the douche who feels the need to brag about himself is not the good kind of confident, no matter what size he is; it comes off as overcompensating.
Never said I had to be the center of attention. At 500 lbs I just am doesn't bother me except when I actually want chill time and people think there is something wrong with me cause I'm having a quiet contemplative moment. Sometimes the battery has to recharge....

That said anybody seeking validation male or female can be incredibly annoying I don't think its something that needs to be explained. I think its one of those gut wrenching things that everybody can feel....the: "Oh man that @#$@! is coming back to talk to us again ughhhh!". That is why I said this:

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I'm almost always in fun mode and I can't stress it enough to guys how important it is to STAY OUT OF YOUR OWN HEAD! Stop thinking Should I say this should I say that, how do I look?
You can only be needy and seeking validation if your in your head worrying about what others think. It all just comes back to that simply thing of staying out of your head and just have fun. If you feel like your not fun or interesting go do fun and interesting things and learn how to communicate it in fun and interesting ways.

I've seen some pretty amazing transformations happen to people who've embraced what I'm talking about and made a choice to evolved who they were. We are social animals to acknowledge it and grow with it can be painful and hard sometimes but the best lessons in life usually come from such moments that push us to the limits of ourselves and beg us to extend and be more than we were.
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:40 AM   #30
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I am a little confused by what is going on in this thread. Honestly, the OP actually tried to start a discussion and somehow it derailed into....I don't know what. I would like to give a more thorough answer to the actual question, but I am under a real world deadline and need to think it over. But I wanted to say one thing that I saw in this thread that bothered me. A lot. For the record, I don't know escapist other than from what he posts. But the impression I got was that the woman he posted a picture of himself with is a friend or ex-girlfriend and more importantly, IS NOT A MEMBER OF THIS BOARD. I think it is NOT AT ALL COOL to make disparaging comments about her appearance or her profession when she's not even here. Actually, even if she is a member, also very uncool. And I won't address my feelings on women criticizing other women for what they do for a living. That's another rant (more like a manifesto) for another time.

Look, the OP brought up a point and people responded. Honestly. If you don't like what they have to say about the topic, that's one thing, but last i checked this is STILL not a thread about dating strippers and whether it's a good idea. There is also a PM system if someone wants to question a poster about their dating habits.

I do want to say a couple of things on topic. First, I do not think confidence and cockiness always go hand in hand. Sometimes they do, sometimes only one is present. I think shy people can be confident. i also know from my own life that a person can be confident about some things and not others. I used to be a skater. On the ice....totally confident. Off the ice... almost paralyzingly shy. So a BHM could be confident about some aspects of himself and not others.

I think from the fat admirer side (all genders and orientations), at least for me, the problem becomes more HOW that lack of confidence expresses itself. in other words, I understand SOME BHM may have issues about their bodies. A lot of people do and fat people get a lot of negative messages. But a lot of fat admirers have found themselves in the position where the person they get the worst reaction from when they say they like fat people is the very fat person they're involved with. I know for me in my past relationships that has been more of the problem. I dated one man who questioned me repeatedly about why I found him attractive. It made me start to think he thought I was a freak for liking fat men. I had another ex whose feelings about his body would change drastically and he seemed to feel that if he suddenly found himself unattractive that i should agree. We lived together for many years and I was always supportive of his weight loss efforts, but it gets disorienting when it's OK to appreciate someone's body one day, then have them telling you that they make themselves sick the next. I guess what I'm saying is, I can understand ambivalence, I just wish sometimes BHM would remember that I'm still a fat admirer even on the days he doesn't like his body much. I don't mind if a guy isn't totally confident, as long as he is honest about it, willing to work with me so I know what is OK and what is not and the message is softened a little if he suddenly hates being fat. I'm only speaking for me, but I know other FFAs and FAs have posted things in the past about SOs making them feel wrong for being a fat admirer sometimes and I think that's more the line. I can totally understand "You know, I'm just not happy with myself. But I'm glad you like me the way I am so don't take it personally." That's very different from waking up one morning and having your boyfriend standing in the bathroom, looking in the mirror ranting to you about how disgusting he is. (And that DID happen to me.) So, yeah, I think in an ideal world fat admirers would love to have all fat people be totally confident. It is, of course, unrealistic. And maybe on the boards it does seem like fat admirers expect confidence to be the starting point, when it might be more a part of the journey. But hopefully, by talking about it, we can start to understand it better. For example, I never realized it came off as condescending to some BHM. I really didn't. I'm learning things, and that's good.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:20 AM   #31
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Interesting Thread... I throw in my two-cent

I'm proud of my weight, to start this off. Proud that I can still do so much, even being this big. Weighing almost 270 lbs, at first, I couldn't imagine myself weighing this much, (I certaintly dont look 270). It took a bit, but I came to realize that it still didn't slow me down. I can run a mile in 6 minutes, I can squat almost 400lbs, And I still backstroke like a maniac! But its off-putting for others to see me do all of this, for I do not look that muscular. I look average for my stature, being a 6'2" of Swedish/German/Scottish/English decent, so you could imagine a big guy and his average weight, but I still have a gut, (very fluffy if I might add), and love handles.

Before high school, I was self-conscious. It wasn't an overwhelming factor of my life, but I alway remember being, 'big', and, thus, came to terms with it quickly. I was picked on for other things, (political and religious), rather then being fat, but still got a few comments here and their. Before I became a pacifist, I was phenomenal in football, positions being starting center, nose guard, D.end, and short-yard runningback. Thats right, heaviest runningback in the NW! I was also on the Swimteam, (4 blues in backstroke, 2 blue in team freestyle), and even when I got into Sumo! The experience was... Well, I'll leave it to being that I became the team caption of the sumo team very quickly

Now, to the point I'm getting at: We have so much control over our bodies. Sumo wrestlers are some of the most healthiest people in the world, yet are some of the biggest SSBHM I've ever seen. Through proper exercise and diet, we can be big, and be even healthier then the ideal twig figure, (we're just better at cuddling ), and once we come to terms with ourselves, I don't think their would be any other issue in our size. I don't see it at least.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:50 PM   #32
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Thanks Dr. P for that incredibly insightful post. I just simply loved reading it, and have nothing to add beyond that.

In fact, in it, I found the one statement that basically said thewhat I had originally come in here to say.

Cockiness and Confidence are not the same thing, and cockiness can get pretty damn annoying after awhile.

Um...and that's all. Not very impressive compared to that ^, but it's all I got.
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Old 07-24-2009, 04:15 PM   #33
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I do want to say a couple of things on topic. First, I do not think confidence and cockiness always go hand in hand. Sometimes they do, sometimes only one is present.
FIRST OFF (((DR P))) i have missed you...

GOOD to read your post today..and you said in a very cohesive way...what i was thinking to a tee..

thanks for sharing!!
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Old 07-25-2009, 02:07 AM   #34
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Love your comments Dr. P and I think its strong evidence in support of my original statement and advice of STAY OUT OF YOUR OWN HEAD. You clearly illustrate where not only will such thoughts affect you (chemically even) but they can negatively affect the one your with causing discomfort and possibly even emotional pain.

I do remember the first time an FFA was commenting "I love your ______" something I thought was the most annoying part of my body! It caused quite the shock to my system. I can't say that I'm in love with the feature or aspect but what I did learn was my opinions on how I look are only mine. Other people see me totally different no matter what or how I want them to see me. My next step was to just love me anyways cause hating on myself was a total waist of time and energy! I think the morning mantra in the mirror became something more like this: "I may not like that but I accept it and damn I do love me!"
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:26 PM   #35
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But a lot of fat admirers have found themselves in the position where the person they get the worst reaction from when they say they like fat people is the very fat person they're involved with.
ATTENTION LADIES: YOU WILL NOT GET A NEGATIVE REACTION IF YOU HIT ON ME!

But seriously, very good points Dr. P!

Not to put words in the OP's mouth, but I took his complaint to be that, for a non-confident BHM, it can feel like a Catch-22:
1. Lack of success with girls leads to low confidence. As such, it feels like if only he could get a girl, he'd be confident.
2. FFAs want confidence first.

As a result, it's easy to feel trapped - getting a girl will make me confident, but I need the confidence first to get the girl. Although this makes it sounds like it's the FFA's "responsibility" to make the first move and hit on him/accept him "pre-confidence", I think it's a very common/understandable experience for bigger guys (and no doubt girls) to feel.

Culturally we place a lot of emphasis and meaning not only on looks, but on relationships. I think everyone understands that, no matter how "outgoing" or "strong" a personality you have, if you suffer the double-whammy of feeling ugly and lonely, that's a pretty strong hit to anyone's sense of confidence.
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:26 AM   #36
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ATTENTION LADIES: YOU WILL NOT GET A NEGATIVE REACTION IF YOU HIT ON ME!

But seriously, very good points Dr. P!

Not to put words in the OP's mouth, but I took his complaint to be that, for a non-confident BHM, it can feel like a Catch-22:
1. Lack of success with girls leads to low confidence. As such, it feels like if only he could get a girl, he'd be confident.
2. FFAs want confidence first.

As a result, it's easy to feel trapped - getting a girl will make me confident, but I need the confidence first to get the girl. Although this makes it sounds like it's the FFA's "responsibility" to make the first move and hit on him/accept him "pre-confidence", I think it's a very common/understandable experience for bigger guys (and no doubt girls) to feel.

Culturally we place a lot of emphasis and meaning not only on looks, but on relationships. I think everyone understands that, no matter how "outgoing" or "strong" a personality you have, if you suffer the double-whammy of feeling ugly and lonely, that's a pretty strong hit to anyone's sense of confidence.
First of all, Love ya my big brother from another mother....

1. Lack of Confidence in General is like shooting yourself in the foot in any venue in life and often Leeds to thoughts of self-loathing and a disheartening belief systems that embrace what "others think and say". Just cause someone says I'm a chair does not make me a chair. Just cause I make a mistake in one moment in time (or in my case thousands) I'm not a klutz. Just cause someone says I did something stupid doesn't mean I do stupid things or that I'm stupid. It only means to the outside observer what they believe it to mean. Its your choice to take that belief and put it upon yourself and carry it around day to day soaking up the yellowish piss filled suck raining down upon you. People tell me I'm a rotten bastard and that I suck and I just laugh at them. I've had girls strait up say to me, "Where you hot once? I thought so you seem like you were a ten then just got fat and you never noticed. If you lost weight again you would totally be a ten again". Hahaha, whatever, there are plenty of girls who love me just as I am, and all that really maters is I love me no matter what.

2. Uhhh that's not just FFA's my friend. If you have a partner in life that lacks the confidence that is key to the success and survival of existing, then why be together at all? Someone like that will only drag you down. The only women that I know that don't care if a man has confidence are the women who don't feel confident enough to get one with it.

Need a more real way of getting around your "Catch 22"?
Here try this:
=================
You know in Hypnotherapy there is a practice of learning how to rewire your brain. Usually in life there is at least 1 person outside ourselves whom at one time or another saw us in a better light than we could see ourselves. They believed in us, they saw us as strong and capable. I don't care if its capable of shooting a ball in a hoop, making a touchdown, rescuing their cat that climbed up a tree, or just being there when they needed you most. So the trick is to close your eyes, see that person looking at you. See how they see you, see how they might even idealize you, see how they feel about you, now start to feel it yourself see that tall strong confident person they see you as and step into that persons body, see them looking at you with love and admiration. Remember that feeling, embrace it, bind it to you, tap your foot wiggle your noes or whatever you have to do to remind yourself to feel that and to be that. If such a person does not exist imagine the person of your dreams who you want to see as that person looking at you see how they would see and feel about you.

Yes this falls under the Fake it to you make it category of training, and guess what? It works! Its very real. I was not always who I am today. I've used this exact practice on myself more than a few times. Often in Vegas I find it useful to put on a different pair of shoes (metaphorically speaking). At first it was just to embrace the man I wanted to become, later I found I could embrace the qualities of people I looked up to or who had skillful ways that I needed to harness. Over time you ingrate and identify such feelings as just who you are.

I know in my case it not only worked but I wasn't thinking about what I didn't have anymore. Often I found myself in over my head with 3 or 4 women at a time. That's what caused my reality to shift, not some girl telling me she liked me. Me leaning how to believe in me; sucking the marrow out of life, living in the moment, and enjoying each day for the beauty it has cause it will never come again.

As always people; feel free to PM me:
~ The Escapist

--------------------
EDIT: I just re-read this, I want to add one thing. If your self-confidence is totally empowered by anyone other than yourself. Then someone else has the power to take it away....It never was "Self" confidence it was only a borrowed belief that you accepted for a time. Often it comes crashing down and washes all traces of who you believe you are when you get wrapped up in that. Any way around it one must learn to take confidence for themselves; borrowed, given, or imagined then root it into themselves keep hold and maintain it at all cost, its more precious than gold (I think that's why at the end of those dating shows on TV that guys go "Whatever, she was to ugly for me anyways.").
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:23 AM   #37
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I caught a snip of an interesting article from Askmen called "Are You Emasculating Your Man."

"Among the pieces of advice they offer that we can agree with:

1. Do something macho: "Women want a man who can do stuff, a guy who can build things, file taxes, drive a car in bad weather, or even fight a bear. Thus, doing something macho is the best way to reverse emasculating trends."

2. Treat her like a woman: "One way to remind her you're a man is to treat her like a woman. So get traditional. Buy her flowers and open the car door for her. Going old school is a great way to reverse emasculating trends."

3. Phase out baby talk: "You may think it's cute; she may think it's cute, but we can guarantee she doesn't think it's sexy and sexy trumps cute 100% of the time."

Other sage advice includes: stop whining ("complaining all the time makes you sound like a whiner and a bit of a wuss") and work out ("it will just generally make you feel more manly").

All good advice; advice we would pass on to any man out there who's been broken by emasculating trends (yes, we're talking about you again, Jon Gosselin).

But before you get too swept up in the wisdom of Askmen and start thinking, "Wow, I should go to Askmen with all my relationship issues," remember: this is also the site that dedicates the majority of it's bandwidth to displaying and rating pictures of half-naked surgically enhanced women.
"



http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/sex/a...ur-man-493242/
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