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Old 03-21-2010, 02:45 PM   #1
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Default A unique issue related to my comic.

I do a comic book called Halloween Man. I write it, not pencil. Though I did create all of the characters within.

The female lead in the character is a character named Lucy. As am I an FA, I've always described her a thick/curvy/voluptous. Seldom do the pencilers draw her that way. Even if I provide photo reference for the body type in question. While I've been lucky though to work with some amazingly talented artists, this has been a source of slight annoyance over the ten years I've been doing this.

I know comic characters vary from artist to artist. So I try not to be a jack-booted asshole about it. But it kinda bugs me.


(Not sure if this is the right forum for this? Could be moved to off topic if need be.)
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Old 03-21-2010, 03:48 PM   #2
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You have a similar problem that screenwriters have. The casting agents are going to to cast whomever they want regardless of your description unless a specific appearance is relevant to the story line.

In other words, when you create a character make the fact that she is a voluptuous woman vital to a portion of your plot and the illustrator will have no choice. Good luck!
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Old 03-21-2010, 03:53 PM   #3
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You have a similar problem that screenwriters have. The casting agents are going to to cast whomever they want regardless of your description unless a specific appearance is relevant to the story line.

In other words, when you create a character make the fact that she is a voluptuous woman vital to a portion of your plot and the illustrator will have no choice. Good luck!
Well, there are times I even refer to it in dialogue. Has no effect. But I get what you're saying. And in effect the artists are the "casting agents" of comics. Good observation.

I
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:38 PM   #4
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This is why I'm learning to draw.

BTW: Can you draw well enough to provide rough sketches of the characters? That may help.

Also, you could do what a lot of comic artists do (and what I'm doing right now) and create a seperate fetish series. You can probably find plenty of artists that specialize in BBW/BHM art on sites like this one, Animexpansion, and Deviantart communities, then release it only within those circles.
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:09 PM   #5
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That happens quite a bit. The character Sam Spade from The Maltese Falcon looked a certain way, but they casted Humphrey Bogart. Bogart look completely different than how Dashiell Hammett describes it. That's just how it works in any sort of artform.

Also, the artists are probably trying to appease the comic-book boy fanbase. Those guys are used to thin women, and most likely won't buy a comic if the heroine isn't like that. That's the way the business goes.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:22 AM   #6
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It just happens from lack of experience drawing a fat figure, in my opinion.

Look at the characters "The Blob" and "Big Bertha" in Marvel Comics. Artists have no difficulty making the characters enormous, but I've never seen them convincingly drawn as fat human beings.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:41 AM   #7
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Well, there are times I even refer to it in dialogue. Has no effect. But I get what you're saying. And in effect the artists are the "casting agents" of comics. Good observation.

I
I read over your PDF of the comic. She's the girl in the fishnet stockings, is that correct? I'm guessing this purely based on your script--you're right, there's no hint that she's 'nice and fleshy' in the artwork.

It just takes more anatomical training to draw fat (or for that matter, very thin) figures, and since most comic artists--while often very talented--are self taught based on mimicking how other comic book artists draw, they don't 'learn the ropes', so to speak. They know how to draw muscles in various shapes and sizes, and that's it.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:31 PM   #8
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You're talking about the PDF on the main page? The goth chick? That's Cassie Hack, which is a character from my buddy Tim's comic Hack/Slash(go read it, it's good). He actually has a similar problem but in reverse. He describes her in his scripts as very thin and flat chested. But seldom does she got drawn that way. Although I think he just rolls with it, because he's never expressed an overt annoyance to the issue.

The character I'm speaking of is Lucy. And there's actually lines of dialogue in several episodes who refer to her as "thick." And I describe her very much that way in the scripts. Provided photo reference,etc. So the failing isn't on my part.

And I will stress...I've worked with some AMAZINGLY talented artists over the years. I'd say I'm lucky over all. It might just be that it is to outside the norm for them.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:22 PM   #9
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You're talking about the PDF on the main page? The goth chick? That's Cassie Hack, which is a character from my buddy Tim's comic Hack/Slash(go read it, it's good). He actually has a similar problem but in reverse. He describes her in his scripts as very thin and flat chested. But seldom does she got drawn that way. Although I think he just rolls with it, because he's never expressed an overt annoyance to the issue.

The character I'm speaking of is Lucy. And there's actually lines of dialogue in several episodes who refer to her as "thick." And I describe her very much that way in the scripts. Provided photo reference,etc. So the failing isn't on my part.

And I will stress...I've worked with some AMAZINGLY talented artists over the years. I'd say I'm lucky over all. It might just be that it is to outside the norm for them.
Oh well, I'm confused, contextually, because I saw reference to a girlfriend who was 'fleshy', but she was the only female character in the scene.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:38 PM   #10
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Are you talking about the dark haired goth gal or the red headed lady? I know the dialogue you're speaking of but Cassie isn't on that page and Lucy isn't wearing fishnets in this story. So I'm assuming you're talking about Cassie.
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:32 PM   #11
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Are you talking about the dark haired goth gal or the red headed lady? I know the dialogue you're speaking of but Cassie isn't on that page and Lucy isn't wearing fishnets in this story. So I'm assuming you're talking about Cassie.
Yep, I see--I thought Lucy was Cassie. Lucy is the redhead in jodphur pants.

Solar City is futuristic Dallas, I'm guessing? It's great seeing the Texas settings in your comic.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:08 PM   #12
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Hey Drew. Correct me if I'm wrong but is "Halloween Man" your property? If so then ultimately you may just have to try and find a middle ground between "jack-booted asshole" and not.

One thing that's great about comics is that unlike movies, there are so many fewer hands in the pot between a creator and the finished product. As such, the "casting director" analogy isn't really as accurate. If this is your creation, then you need to hold your artists to the standard you want them to set... especially if they're getting paid in any way. If not, then I feel your pain. (It's tough to tell people what to do when they're donating the work. A problem I've had with colorists from time to time.)

As for the idea of doing a separate, fetish comic as was suggested, I think what you're doing is far better. To add to what Paul was saying, big characters in comics are usually handled HORRIBLY as either jokes or freaks or just comic relief. If the only fat characters being created are hidden in fetish circles, essentially ghettoizing them, then the idea of the thick female lead in mainstream books continues to be taboo.
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Old 04-01-2010, 04:40 PM   #13
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Paul: Thanks. I'm from Texas. I got tired of every superhero story being set up North. So I changed the rules abit.

My comic is set in a (lightly referenced) alternate history/universe. Thus it is present day, while appearing to be the future. Basically it's the future that people of the 40's, 50's, and 60's imagined it because I love those eras of sci/fi.

You mentioned on facebook that Les Toil could do a model sheet. I'd love that as he is one of my favorite "pin-up" and that fits within Lucy's sort of "retro" look.

That aside, I've been meaning to do new model sheets of all of the characters. For over a year now actually.

I have a paperback out if you're interested?

Fish:

I don't really have alot of interest in doing a fetish comic. So I don't think I'd dabble in it, even as a quickie way to make money. On my good days, I like to think of myself as an "artist." And while I have no problem with fetish stuff, it's not really what I'm driven to do.

I do think that very few comic book artists are skilled at "body type." Meaning being able to draw a varied array of people. Alan Davis is one of the the few that comes to mind.

I probably should be alittle more jackbooted about it. I've been told more than once that I'm too nice to people. LOL Alot of these artists are my friends too. So that makes it tougher, because I don't want them to think that I'm knocking their skills or anything. It's just that I have everything envisioned a certain way in my head. LOL
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Old 04-04-2010, 05:59 PM   #14
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I think it's great what you're trying to do I love classy pinup BBW!! I try to dress that way on occassion..it turns out more 40s/50s....get these artists to see a real BBW in person as a sort of model - inspiration, if you will! haha. I have a friend that went to art school and she was constantly drawing naked, hairy men and ladies with small titties...so why not?
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:51 PM   #15
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I love the 40's/50's look and the old school glamour of it.

There's a couple of people I've been talking too from this site. So it might be fixable. Though I'll admit, I guess it is somewhat my fault for not being firmer about things.
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:09 PM   #16
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If the artist isn't bringing your vision across and you're paying them, reject the work until you get what you want. This is how I as an artist work with people when drawing their creations. They're paying so they have to be happy, even if it means I think a character is overly muscled or undesirably thin.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:34 AM   #17
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Well, sometimes it hasn't been that cut and dry. Of course it has been something I've become alittle more jackbooted about since discussing it here.

The next few years should be really interesting. Because we'll have stories that are already completed with the thinner Lucy and recently pencilled stories with a more full figured look.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:52 PM   #18
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I'm sorry to hear you are having issues relating to artists.

as most people say, it is how most comic book artists are self taught.

I think I'm probably going to have much of the same problem. I've got a possible comic series on the go, a comic based around a college for superheroes. full of sex, violence, swearing and superhero cliche's (including a zombie infested toilet).

Most of my characters are not stereotypical, rippling muscles, superheroes. They range from the main character, whose described as "Scrawny" most of the time, to the main love interest, who is described as "large, both in height, and girth". there are many, many more, some more extreme, but those are the two sort of central characters.

What I did was write an extra document explaining their looks in general, and put that with the script. A sort of reference sheet to how to draw them. It's helped people invision the characters, and I've had some pretty good responses.

I think you're probably going to have to go to the artist and explain you're view point. Explain that you are trying to get the reader to understand why this character is a love interest, and bring out the beauty in a non traditional vision of beauty.

I wish you the best of luck, up and coming comic writer to comic writer, and I hope to see you're comic in the future.
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Old 04-18-2010, 08:17 AM   #19
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Well, sometimes it hasn't been that cut and dry. Of course it has been something I've become a little more jackbooted about since discussing it here.
I want again to assure you that if your artists are professionals, then you're not at all being jackbooted. You are simply insisting that you get what you pay for.

It's not being jackbooted when you go to Burger King and say "no tomato" to reject a burger with tomato on it. You're standing up for yourself. Period. Not getting what you asked for is letting yourself be a patsy.

A professional delivers the work asked for. A good professional delivers work you asked for with something that makes you go "Wow."
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:09 AM   #20
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Have you ever just blatantly described her as 'sexy fat chick'???
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:55 PM   #21
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Hi there. I've tried to start my own comic series with a friend before with a fat chick in the lead.

My biggest suggestion to you is make her body a central part of the story. As another person said, the artist will have no choice but to draw here so that she

"fits" into context with what you're writing.

Heres an example of my work.

http://umbroboy.deviantart.com/art/P...shed-115932677


I created her with freedom of artistic license while my friend worked on her story and background.

I have done much with my friend in a bit so Maybe if I have time inbetween scoring comics with music I'll draw you your bbw character.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:50 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by drewedwards View Post
I do a comic book called Halloween Man. I write it, not pencil. Though I did create all of the characters within.

The female lead in the character is a character named Lucy. As am I an FA, I've always described her a thick/curvy/voluptous. Seldom do the pencilers draw her that way. Even if I provide photo reference for the body type in question. While I've been lucky though to work with some amazingly talented artists, this has been a source of slight annoyance over the ten years I've been doing this.

I know comic characters vary from artist to artist. So I try not to be a jack-booted asshole about it. But it kinda bugs me.


(Not sure if this is the right forum for this? Could be moved to off topic if need be.)
You just need to say it again. And show them how it's done by drawing(no matter how good you are at it).
My dream is to draw comics and this personally pisses me off. Especially when you've tried your best to describe the anatomy of the character.

But it's your story, right? You know the best what you want - and don't want.
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Old 07-01-2010, 11:28 AM   #23
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Have you thought of purchasing a commission from deviant art and finding someone to draw the dimensions for you? That way you can show the artist what you're thinking about. Sometimes they need to see it?

I don't know, though. If it's your book and you own all rights to it you can have all the executive decisions. When it's not all yours...well, yeah. Not a lot you can do about that.
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:00 PM   #24
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Years ago I used to model for one of the local art schools around here. I was encouraged to do so by one of the teachers saying that unique bodies were vigorously sought for these things. Taut hard bodies had become all too common and dull. I was paid handsomely for it (at least according to my standards at the time) but I didn't look forward to it. The worst part was looking at the depictions once the session was over. Some of these artists... I don't know.... the dimensions in the art was SO bad. They saw me as this hideous creature. I nearly ran away crying the first time. A few did a fairly righteous job but others clearly had no eye for drawing fat people. I thought it was because maybe they were shit artists but most of their other stuff was ok. They just had no gift for drawing a fat body and felt no relationship at all to the subject matter. It didn't seem to matter to them one way or the other either.
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