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Old 04-23-2012, 11:12 AM   #1
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Default Huntsman on the GOP: Is this the Best We Can Do?

Jon Huntsman Criticizes Republican Party, Compares Actions To Communist China

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Huntsman, a former Utah governor who dropped out of the GOP primary in January, served as U.S. ambassador to China under President Barack Obama.

He also criticized the Republican candidates' foreign policy stances, particularly in regard to China.

"I don’t know what world these people are living in," Huntsman said.

Although Huntsman did not mention any specific candidates, he has criticized Mitt Romney in the past for his "wrong-headed" approach. Huntsman, who endorsed Romney after dropping out of the race, said in February that the former Massachusetts governor should take a more opportunity-minded view to relations with China.

Huntsman also spoke on Sunday about his presidential candidacy, revealing that he was less than impressed by his fellow candidates when he attended his first debate in August.

"Is this the best we could do?" Huntsman said he asked himself.
I honestly wish he would've had a chance to run against the President. I find him refreshing for a Republican, and I possibly would've voted for him. I would've voted for McCain, I have said repeatedly, but then his pick for VP is what deterred me. That Vice President is an important part of the race. One bad VP pick, and you can lose and entire election. I don't think that it was really thought of that way until Sarah Palin.

I find Huntsman leveled headed, intelligent, and honest (for a Politician... which isn't saying much, but still.)

I just want to know: What does it say to you that the less extreme Conservatives are coming out against the current nominees? Let's face it: Gingrich has no chance. His campaign is running on an empty tank financially. It's been reported that his campaign is 4.3 million dollars in debt and that debt is getting larger as he is stiffing vendors. Huntsman is lukewarm on Romney, but I don't feel Romney is as strong of a candidate that the GOP needs to win. Sure, he might be a moderate conservative, but he's oblivious to the needs of the normal American. Most Politicians are, but I feel because of his money, Romney has no clue. I also don't like Romney because of religious issues, such as him post-humously having his staunch athiest father-in-law baptized as a Mormon. To me, that isn't upholding the Freedom of Religion in the Constitution: It violates it. The man's beliefs should be respected in death as they should've been in life.

I truly feel that the GOP should've pushed the levelheaded man to the front. Honestly, every liberal in my family would've considered Huntsman as a serious candidate. My Aunt has lived in Utah for the past decade, and she adores him. My Grandmother, who has told me she is going to vote for Obama, said that if Huntsman got the nomination, that the statement about Obama would no longer hold water.

My husband says that the extreme conservatives are a result of the extreme liberals. That might be true, but I truly believe that they are shooting themselves in the foot with their current candidates. Find one in the middle of the road, an intelligent, levelheaded, and open-minded candidate, and maybe there would be some progress in Washington instead of this... war. That's all it can be called: A war. It's not a violent, armed war: It's an Uncivil Civil War. The animosity between both parties is destroying our great Nation. Each party does "tit for tat" and that's not how we're going to save America.

We need someone unifying, and I don't believe Romney is that person.

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Old 04-23-2012, 01:24 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by DevenDoom View Post

...

My husband says that the extreme conservatives are a result of the extreme liberals. That might be true, but I truly believe that they are shooting themselves in the foot with their current candidates. Find one in the middle of the road, an intelligent, levelheaded, and open-minded candidate, and maybe there would be some progress in Washington instead of this... war. That's all it can be called: A war. It's not a violent, armed war: It's an Uncivil Civil War. The animosity between both parties is destroying our great Nation. Each party does "tit for tat" and that's not how we're going to save America.

We need someone unifying, and I don't believe Romney is that person.
What extreme liberals? The Democratic party is full of people who would have been considered conservative a generation ago. President Obama and Clinton before him governed as centrist conservatives.

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Old 04-23-2012, 02:26 PM   #3
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What extreme liberals? The Democratic party is full of people who would have been considered conservative a generation ago. President Obama and Clinton before him governed as centrist conservatives.
Shortly before his death, former Arizona senator and one-time Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater, author of The Conscience of a Conservative, commented that his politics remained unchanged, but that he was now being attacked as a liberal.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:53 PM   #4
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Shortly before his death, former Arizona senator and one-time Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater, author of The Conscience of a Conservative, commented that his politics remained unchanged, but that he was now being attacked as a liberal.
Somewhat off topic, but this reminds of something I think Roy Hattersley (a former deputy leader of the UK Labour party) said about Labour's ideological shift in the 90s; that he had moved from the extreme right of the party to it's extreme left without changing any of his opinions.
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:28 PM   #5
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Default it is the control .

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Originally Posted by DevenDoom View Post
Jon Huntsman Criticizes Republican Party, Compares Actions To Communist China



I honestly wish he would've had a chance to run against the President. I find him refreshing for a Republican, and I possibly would've voted for him. I would've voted for McCain, I have said repeatedly, but then his pick for VP is what deterred me. That Vice President is an important part of the race. One bad VP pick, and you can lose and entire election. I don't think that it was really thought of that way until Sarah Palin.

I find Huntsman leveled headed, intelligent, and honest (for a Politician... which isn't saying much, but still.)

I just want to know: What does it say to you that the less extreme Conservatives are coming out against the current nominees? Let's face it: Gingrich has no chance. His campaign is running on an empty tank financially. It's been reported that his campaign is 4.3 million dollars in debt and that debt is getting larger as he is stiffing vendors. Huntsman is lukewarm on Romney, but I don't feel Romney is as strong of a candidate that the GOP needs to win. Sure, he might be a moderate conservative, but he's oblivious to the needs of the normal American. Most Politicians are, but I feel because of his money, Romney has no clue. I also don't like Romney because of religious issues, such as him post-humously having his staunch athiest father-in-law baptized as a Mormon. To me, that isn't upholding the Freedom of Religion in the Constitution: It violates it. The man's beliefs should be respected in death as they should've been in life.

I truly feel that the GOP should've pushed the levelheaded man to the front. Honestly, every liberal in my family would've considered Huntsman as a serious candidate. My Aunt has lived in Utah for the past decade, and she adores him. My Grandmother, who has told me she is going to vote for Obama, said that if Huntsman got the nomination, that the statement about Obama would no longer hold water.

My husband says that the extreme conservatives are a result of the extreme liberals. That might be true, but I truly believe that they are shooting themselves in the foot with their current candidates. Find one in the middle of the road, an intelligent, levelheaded, and open-minded candidate, and maybe there would be some progress in Washington instead of this... war. That's all it can be called: A war. It's not a violent, armed war: It's an Uncivil Civil War. The animosity between both parties is destroying our great Nation. Each party does "tit for tat" and that's not how we're going to save America.

We need someone unifying, and I don't believe Romney is that person.
it is not tit for tat , it is not right or left . it is wall street against all Americana . and you are doomed because wall street is gripping both balls .and covering your eyes . wall street and the federal reserve ( which is really a private bank in control of your money creation and distribution without any oversight of any part of the government ) is spending twice on EU banks and putting the bill on your backs .
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:21 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
What extreme liberals? The Democratic party is full of people who would have been considered conservative a generation ago. President Obama and Clinton before him governed as centrist conservatives.
Many people compare the political spectrum to a number line. With liberals to the left and conservatives to the right of the “center point.” The problem is deciding where the center really is located. To say Clinton and Obama are conservatives would be surprising to most people. They would considered them liberals.

For example, Bill Clinton was sworn as a liberal. Recall the failed stimulus plan? Recall his “forced” car pooling plan?

Clinton was smart enough to move to the right after the Republicans took both chambers of Congress. If signed their welfare reform law and accepted their budget cuts. (Part of the reason the budget had a surplus by the end of his second term.) The point: He could modify his ideology to match the political reality.

As to Barack Obama? He has called higher taxes against the rich since he was sworn in. Does the sound like a conservative?
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:18 PM   #7
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Shortly before his death, former Arizona senator and one-time Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater, author of The Conscience of a Conservative, commented that his politics remained unchanged, but that he was now being attacked as a liberal.
Kinda like some people attack Romney for being too liberal these days?

On the subject of Huntsman: I like the guy. An excellent choice for Secretary of State under President Romney.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:12 PM   #8
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Kinda like some people attack Romney for being too liberal these days?
Yes. His fellow conservatives.

From where I sit right now I see only one side that will not tolerate dissent within its ranks.

You shuold really spend a year in U.S. The right wing wuold probably scare you into being liberal. They are NOT like typical conservative party in Europe. They are like far, far right extremists, though they try to hide it in a way.

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Old 04-23-2012, 11:34 PM   #9
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As to Barack Obama? He has called higher taxes against the rich since he was sworn in. Does the sound like a conservative?
Sounds like a Republican:

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No man should receive a dollar unless that dollar has been fairly earned. Every dollar received should represent a dollar’s worth of service rendered-not gambling in stocks, but service rendered. The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective-a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate.
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/l...p?document=501
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:21 AM   #10
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Yes. His fellow conservatives.

From where I sit right now I see only one side that will not tolerate dissent within its ranks.

You shuold really spend a year in U.S. The right wing wuold probably scare you into being liberal. They are NOT like typical conservative party in Europe. They are like far, far right extremists, though they try to hide it in a way.
I think Gingrich is more liberal... especially when it comes to wedding vows. I can't believe that hypocrite is still in the race, but we all know about his ego. Oh, I wish I had just 0,01% of his self-confidence, maybe I'd be a "normal" guy.

Anyway, so if anyone wants to send me over to the US, I'd do that. Well, I doubt I'd ever become a liberal, and I know the difference between the European conservatives and the US conservatives, but I still believe in the idea of conservativism as a whole. It's just that constitution of yours is so complex, and it should be, but the Tenth Amendment is very clear to me in giving states the rights to choose in form of healthcare. This is what Romney did as Governor.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:34 PM   #11
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I think Gingrich is more liberal... especially when it comes to wedding vows.
...
Actually he's acting like his fellow conservatives. Conservative states have the highest divorce rates -- liberal states the lowest.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:36 PM   #12
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Actually he's acting like his fellow conservatives. Conservative states have the highest divorce rates -- liberal states the lowest.
Might want to post a link to prove that before someone starts screaming at you to cite it
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #13
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I'm not going to scream to anyone at least.

Do I understand this right? Just because I'm European, and don't live in the US, I shouldn't comment on issues about US politics because I don't know as much about US politics (or US history) as the American citizens on this board?
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:59 PM   #14
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Default Ron Paul can unite people across party lines, IMO.

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*snip*

We need someone unifying, and I don't believe Romney is that person.
No-one believes in Romney, because of his regular flipping on the issues. He is 100% the banksters / corporates man. (Not to mention he's governor of Massachusetts, one of the most 2nd Amendment unfriendly states in the nation).

In contrast, people know where they stand with Ron Paul, who's been saying the same things and voting consistently for the last 30years, so there's your honesty, right there.
Also, Ron Paul is much more popular with Dems than Romney, and fairs pretty well against Obama in polls (coming out ahead of Obama in some), so there's some unification across party-lines with him.

Paul has nearly $2mill in his campaign chest at present, and has won Iowa, Minnesota and Colorado on delegates - even the mainstream media has been forced to admit it, see last three posts here:
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...t=93451&page=3
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:04 AM   #15
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Might want to post a link to prove that before someone starts screaming at you to cite it
OK

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=126653602


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...title=Arkansas
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:57 AM   #16
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In contrast, people know where they stand with Ron Paul, who's been saying the same things and voting consistently for the last 30years, so there's your honesty, right there.
Also, Ron Paul is much more popular with Dems than Romney, and fairs pretty well against Obama in polls (coming out ahead of Obama in some), so there's some unification across party-lines with him.
Sorry, but Ron Paul's goose cooked the moment those racist newsletters surfaced. That is not something mainstream Republicans want to defend going up against black President.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:41 AM   #17
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Default Ron Paul is anti-racist, much more so than Obama.

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Sorry, but Ron Paul's goose cooked the moment those racist newsletters surfaced. That is not something mainstream Republicans want to defend going up against black President.
Ron Paul is anti-racist.

He's the only candidate who will end the de-facto racist War on Drugs that kills and jails thousands of non-violent black people every year. Ron Paul has pledged to release ALL non-violent drug "offenders" from Federal jails and to leave the increasing number of states that are legalising cannabis alone. Obama will keep the War on Drugs going, Obama* will keep on imprisoning black people, who have merely excercised their natural right to ingest whatever they wish, and who have harmed no-one.
(*The US prison complex funnells money to his backers: lawyers, banksters and corporates. That goes double for Romney.)

He's the only candidate who has pledged to cease and disist invading the countries of far away non white people, unlike Obama, who got the US involved in the Libyan war (look up how the new bosses there are treating black people) and is a few months of bad poll results away from invading Iran (if Romney gets in he'll invade Iran for sure).

And what's more a whole bunch of black people get it, and have been saying so, online for some time now. (See youTube link in page 1 of my Ron Paul thread). Of course if you only watch the mainstream TV news which is owned by the same people that back Romney and Obama, you wouldn't know that.

The Internet is the printing press of the 21st Century, and the information revolution is translating into political action - which is why governments are SO desperate to control it / shut down dissenters - Obama / Romney are both for internet censorship / spying. Ron Paul is against it.

Basically, if Ron Paul gets the GOP nomination the USA will have a substantive choice on policy - with Romney / Obama it's just a beauty pageant, their policies are basically the same.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:50 AM   #18
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Many people compare the political spectrum to a number line. With liberals to the left and conservatives to the right of the “center point.” The problem is deciding where the center really is located. To say Clinton and Obama are conservatives would be surprising to most people. They would considered them liberals.

For example, Bill Clinton was sworn as a liberal. Recall the failed stimulus plan? Recall his “forced” car pooling plan?

Clinton was smart enough to move to the right after the Republicans took both chambers of Congress. If signed their welfare reform law and accepted their budget cuts. (Part of the reason the budget had a surplus by the end of his second term.) The point: He could modify his ideology to match the political reality.

As to Barack Obama? He has called higher taxes against the rich since he was sworn in. Does the sound like a conservative?
no Deli it is not like that at all those who say this say it to confuse thing . the center is always is the midpoint between extreme left and extreme right .
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:23 AM   #19
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http://www.policymic.com/articles/74...vative-in-2012

"... Paul decried the cost in lives and dollars of an “undeclared, unnecessary war” in Iraq, and has supported a U.S. withdrawal from a war in Afghanistan that has taken the lives of over 1,900 American soldiers , 3,021 Afghan civilians in 2011 alone, and cost the U.S. hundreds of billions . Romney, on the other hand, has criticized the Obama administration’s plan to draw down the amount of American troops committed to this war in Afghanistan that is adding to the U.S. debt and destroying its reputation abroad.

The candidates’ differences on the drug war also highlight Paul’s commitment to limited government and fiscal responsibility. Paul opposes anti-drug policies that cost government over $40 billion annually and fill prisons with millions of drug offenders, to the point that over half of federal inmates are in prison due to drug crimes. Romney refuses to acknowledge the fiscal and social problems inherent in America’s drug war policies, and continues to support a war on drugs waged by law enforcement.

In a 2008 debate, Romney proclaimed that government’s role in policing political dissidents in the U.S. trumps civil liberties.

“I hear, from time to time, people say -- ‘Hey, we have civil liberties we have to worry about,’—but don’t forget, the most important civil liberty I expect from my government is the right to be kept alive.”

Romney implies that individual liberties ought to be sacrificed for government protection from national security concerns. Paul, on the other hand, has made no such exception, and has steadfastly fought for the civil liberties that protect individuals, including unpopular political minorities, from the powers of government. Paul was one of three Republicans to vote against the PATRIOT Act and its expansion of government surveillance powers, such as Section 206 that allows police to use “roving wiretaps” for surveillance without specifying what person or place is to be searched. No doubt the laws were made in response to a crisis, but Paul never failed to warn that rights are “more easily trampled” in such crises when government makes promises that “initially seem to exceed the cost in lost freedom,” and he was one of very few who stood up for individual liberties threatened by America’s War on Terror."
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:32 AM   #20
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Gingrich came last in every one of the Primaries last night, and it looks like he'll quit now:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/elec...sEnabled=false
Romney - as predicted - did well, winning all 5, but Ron Paul came a strong second, particularly in sem-open RI, where he took 24% (that's another 4 delegates just from the primary, in an area where traditionally Ron Paul wouldn't get any).
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:53 AM   #21
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Ron Paul is anti-racist.

He's the only candidate who will end the de-facto racist War on Drugs that kills and jails thousands of non-violent black people every year. Ron Paul has pledged to release ALL non-violent drug "offenders" from Federal jails and to leave the increasing number of states that are legalising cannabis alone. Obama will keep the War on Drugs going, Obama* will keep on imprisoning black people, who have merely excercised their natural right to ingest whatever they wish, and who have harmed no-one.
(*The US prison complex funnells money to his backers: lawyers, banksters and corporates. That goes double for Romney.)

He's the only candidate who has pledged to cease and disist invading the countries of far away non white people, unlike Obama, who got the US involved in the Libyan war (look up how the new bosses there are treating black people) and is a few months of bad poll results away from invading Iran (if Romney gets in he'll invade Iran for sure).

And what's more a whole bunch of black people get it, and have been saying so, online for some time now. (See youTube link in page 1 of my Ron Paul thread). Of course if you only watch the mainstream TV news which is owned by the same people that back Romney and Obama, you wouldn't know that.

The Internet is the printing press of the 21st Century, and the information revolution is translating into political action - which is why governments are SO desperate to control it / shut down dissenters - Obama / Romney are both for internet censorship / spying. Ron Paul is against it.

Basically, if Ron Paul gets the GOP nomination the USA will have a substantive choice on policy - with Romney / Obama it's just a beauty pageant, their policies are basically the same.
Unfortunately none of that matters in politics game. He became too much a liability to put republican political machine behind him. That episode left too many people with deep discomfort about his radical/extremst asociations. Plus, he has conflicting statements on the topic of newsletters. When he first was question about them some years ago his remarks were rather diferent and seemed to support them. That is deadly poison to mainstream GOP and they were never going to back him becuase of it.Too much of a lightning rod isue to take the chance.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:38 AM   #22
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Unfortunately none of that matters in politics game. He became too much a liability to put republican political machine behind him. That episode left too many people with deep discomfort about his radical/extremst asociations. Plus, he has conflicting statements on the topic of newsletters. When he first was question about them some years ago his remarks were rather diferent and seemed to support them. That is deadly poison to mainstream GOP and they were never going to back him becuase of it.Too much of a lightning rod isue to take the chance.
Well, if Paul can amass enough delegates to block Romney from winning outright, thus forcing a brokered convention (which is the Paul camps entire strategy) - then mainstream GOP may eventually find themselves forced to back him.

By the way, the reason the mainstream GOP aren't backing Paul is NOT because they are worried about some newsletters that came out 20 years ago - the mainstream GOP are terrified of being cut off from the endless cash cow of corporate crony lobbyist good times / "donations" / and non-executive board positions that accrue to officials who have a stranglehold on business via bureaucratic regulation. As Ron Paul intends to dismantle a swathe of these petty gatekeepers' departments he threatens their big payday, and THAT is why the old guard GOP aren't behind him.

The corporates themselves fear this too - via their lobbyists / consultants they write the laws that are supposed to "regulate" them - those regulations are no problem for the big corporates who get to do whatever they like (fracking, GMOs, clothradritin pesticides, aspartame, HFCS) while small businesses that offer the consumer an alternative choice (raw milk, free range pigs, organic produce) get stamped out by the regulators / patent enforcement.

In short: the regulators ARE the Pinkertons of the 21st century, except the corporates get them cheap for a few lobbyist bucks, while the taxpayer foots most of the enforcement costs.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:22 AM   #23
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Well, if Paul can amass enough delegates to block Romney from winning outright, thus forcing a brokered convention (which is the Paul camps entire strategy) - then mainstream GOP may eventually find themselves forced to back him.

By the way, the reason the mainstream GOP aren't backing Paul is NOT because they are worried about some newsletters that came out 20 years ago - the mainstream GOP are terrified of being cut off from the endless cash cow of corporate crony lobbyist good times / "donations" / and non-executive board positions that accrue to officials who have a stranglehold on business via bureaucratic regulation. As Ron Paul intends to dismantle a swathe of these petty gatekeepers' departments he threatens their big payday, and THAT is why the old guard GOP aren't behind him.

The corporates themselves fear this too - via their lobbyists / consultants they write the laws that are supposed to "regulate" them - those regulations are no problem for the big corporates who get to do whatever they like (fracking, GMOs, clothradritin pesticides, aspartame, HFCS) while small businesses that offer the consumer an alternative choice (raw milk, free range pigs, organic produce) get stamped out by the regulators / patent enforcement.

In short: the regulators ARE the Pinkertons of the 21st century, except the corporates get them cheap for a few lobbyist bucks, while the taxpayer foots most of the enforcement costs.
There is not one thing that determines the desirability of a candidate, and in this day of Citizen United it goes without saying that giant corporate interest control the process more than ever. Gaffes and general suitability to a base are key as well, and that's why candidates like Gingrich, Bachman, and Cain go down--too much baggage.

Ron Paul was never going to be suitable to the GOP mainstream. His libertarianism confuse and alarm them. His world view don't appeal to neo-con doctrine and his message cannot be wrapped up neatly for evangelicals.

I remember when the isue of the newsletters surfaced again. There was much natering from beltway insiders that this made him unelecatble to the general population, never mind the base. They were glad for it because they could then and there wipe their hands of him.

The brokered convention is pretty thin reed to hang hopes on. I think it happen last with FDR. Not likely to happen in today system with overwhelming amount of corporate money in the coffers for the de facto candidate, aka Romney, who is also poised to capture enough delegates in the next few contests.

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Old 04-25-2012, 11:38 AM   #24
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There is not one thing that determines the desirability of a candidate, and in this day of Citizen United it goes without saying that giant corporate interest control the process more than ever. Gaffes and general suitability to a base are key as well, and that's why candidates like Gingrich, Bachman, and Cain go down--too much baggage.

Ron Paul was never going to be suitable to the GOP mainstream. His libertarianism confuse and alarm them. His world view don't appeal to neo-con doctrine and his message cannot be wrapped up neatly for evangelicals.

I remember when the isue of the newsletters surfaced again. There was much natering from beltway insiders that this made him unelecatble to the general population, never mind the base. They were glad for it because they could then and there wipe their hands of him.

The brokered convention is pretty thin reed to hang hopes on. I think it happen last with FDR. Not likely to happen in today system with overwhelming amount of corporate money in the coffers for the de facto candidate, aka Romney, who is also poised to capture enough delegates in the next few contests.
I agree with the bolded part.

As for the delegates - Romney's backers have been up to all kinds of shenanigans, but they cannot forge or miscount delegates, because they are ACTUAL living breathing people.
The MSM can say Ron Paul only has 79 delegates until they are blue in the face, but if Ron Paul turns up to Tampa with several hundred actual living people who say "I'm a Ron Paul delegate." then Romney won't be able to flip flop those people out of existence.

I know it's along shot, but as it looks like the last chance for freedom through non-violent democracy in the Western world - before the last steps of descent into complete "Third Way" (Mussolini-style) crony-corporate fascism - I'm holding out my hopes for Ron to succeed.

Maybe I'm a dreamer, etc.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:54 AM   #25
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Many people compare the political spectrum to a number line. With liberals to the left and conservatives to the right of the “center point.” The problem is deciding where the center really is located. To say Clinton and Obama are conservatives would be surprising to most people. They would considered them liberals.

For example, Bill Clinton was sworn as a liberal. Recall the failed stimulus plan? Recall his “forced” car pooling plan?

Clinton was smart enough to move to the right after the Republicans took both chambers of Congress. If signed their welfare reform law and accepted their budget cuts. (Part of the reason the budget had a surplus by the end of his second term.) The point: He could modify his ideology to match the political reality.

As to Barack Obama? He has called higher taxes against the rich since he was sworn in. Does the sound like a conservative?
The fact that Clinton and Obama are (moderate) conservatives would be surprising to you DELIMAN because you are think of conservatives in modern terms. However, back before neo-conservatives move the middle by naming themselves mainstream conservatives, and pretends it always was like that, Clinton and Obama would have been considered to be wandering the line between liberal and conservative.

First you just have to go back to Bush the senior to find a conservative that raised taxes.

Second, unlike Bush the senior, Obama is focus the tax raise to the top 1%, back to rate it was when the economy was good.

Three, we are at war. Bush the junior is the first president liberal or conservative, in a long long time, to not accept the political reality that you can not practically cut taxes when you in a war, let alone four.

So, either let Obama rise taxes to pay for the wars, or let him end the wars. Unless you want our great great grand children paying for them.

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