Plot or Gain?

[guhbone]

Weight gain with a vague plot thrown in for sure.

I write completely from the hip, and usually only have the vaguest of notions of where I want to go with the story. I churn out a story (or a lengthy section) in about 4 hours, going from empty txt document to entire story in a single bound.

I was never very good at writing or developing characters anyway.

[maltesefalcon]

Originally Posted by Lardibutts

This is a really good thread and I've found it fascinating.


That quote really surprised me. I do so enjoy mf's stories but would have thought them prize examples of being "plot driven" in a very carefully thought out way. Samster I believe is another writer who works in this way. It is almost as if a "story board" film maker style is constructed and kicked about for a while. Eventually it is the structure on which the story (with its WG descriptions) gets written.

I wish I was like that.

I start with snapshots that burn into my brain, glimpsed figures in the street or people I turn around and try observing more closely, then write up (or try and draw) as sketches.

My current story Sabbatical Year is built around an enormously likeable extrovert family I "people watched" for about 10 minutes around a DIY store in Kettering.

"Exploding Maids" started that way while surreptitously girl watching in Naples, then fantasising about them all later. Spotting the Irish-Italian lady off a Ryan Air flight stuggling into Rome airport - and I really did help her (lustfully) find her passport -sparked off my story "Slow Food".

I'd still like to write a story about an absolutely stupendously pearshaped American SSBW and her BHM partner I commiserated with as we were being conducted on a tour around Beauvais cathedral way too fast for them after a heavy lunch.
I sensed perhaps an anti-American/anti-fat conspiracy building up between the guide and others in the party so I kept slowing the pace by asking lots of questions.

Sorry this was posted a while ago but I just noticed it. I think you would not have been so surprised at my statement if you had included the whole post:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think character development precedes either plot or gain. If you develop a good character and describe them fully it will capture the reader's attention.

No one will read a story about people they really don't care about. It makes the difference between a mere reportage and a story that leaves people wanting more.

For me I develop the main characters first. They become as real to me as my family.

Then they tell me their story in their own words. It may not make sense to you but that's how it happens for me.


Look at the William Bell Saga for instance. He appeals to a personal trait in each of his victims, jealousy,greed, ambition and turns it against them. Definitely a plot driven by the characters.

Fat Like Me is driven by the need for Sandy to atone, and her compassion for her fellow workers. Again if she was a cold fish the story would not have happened.

I would agree however that The Fatter Boleyn Girl is plot driven as it is a semi-historical piece.

[Ravens-son]

Late to the party here, but I figured I'd throw my two (or more) cents in.

My basic view is that a weight gain story is supposed to be about weight gain. It's not only what the reader is looking for (presumably) but it's why you're writing the story as well. A unique story (or just a unique hook) and quasi-strong characterization are essential if you want the story to stand out and be worth reading, but it's definitely possible to take things too far. Without naming anyone (because I'm not saying this to be overly judgemental or confrontational) I will say that I've skipped over a number of XWG stories (my favorite kind) because the first post or two will be nothing but establishing a story that I consider to be needlessly complex.

I mean, I always want to ask the writer: are you trying to tell a straight-forward narrative and you've just thrown in some weight gain elements just to get attention, or are you trying to tell a weight gain story and you got distracted along the way?

If you want to write a historical romance or sci-fi actioneer then write that. Those genres have their own tropes and demands, and throwing in weight gain elements or subplots just feels out of place at best and an afterthought at worst.

There's no specific breakdown for what works (X% weight gain, Y% character development, Z% rising action and conclusion), but I'd say the weight gain should be the driving force of the action. If the story goes beyond the "how the weight is gained" idea it could still work (easiest example would be a relationship drama where the protagonist loses a boy/girlfriend while getting fat and then deals with trying to find someone else; or just any story that gives attention to how the character's lifestyle changes as they gain), but non-WG plots should be subservient to the weight gain itself.

I admit I say all this because I have a very simple, almost pure, stance on WG fiction. WG fiction is about weight gain, anything else is just a distraction. I can understand wanting to write "serious" literature with three-dimensional characters and strong storylines, but I don't think you can 'elevate' weight gain fiction that much.

Again, if you want to write a story that is about things other than weight gain, why not write that story by itself and post it on some other website devoted to regular writing?

[agouderia]

Originally Posted by Ravens-son

I admit I have a very simple stance on WG fiction. WG fiction is about weight gain, anything else is just a distraction. I can understand wanting to write "serious" literature with three-dimensional characters and strong storylines, but I don't think you can 'elevate' weight gain fiction that much.

Again, if you want to write a story that is about things other than weight gain, why not write that story by itself and post it on some other website devoted to regular writing?

Being guilty of strongly plot centered stories myself, I in turn have no fondness for the simple enumeration of a two-dimensional character's often exaggerated or implausible weight gain.

Your definition of WG fiction imo is too narrow, as is focusses only on the 'gain' part. It excludes all stories to be found here you could probably capture better with the term 'fat fiction' - namely stories with and about fat or getting fatter characters.

Given the fact that there are hardly any overweight characters in mainstream fiction - in contrast to real life - there is a need for a niche where traditional stories with fat protagonists, and issues of their weight playing into their story, can be dealt with. Fat characters, gaining or not, offer a whole lot of potential for good stories as they very often receive literally bigger challenges thrown at them by societal perception. (And maybe thats also why more and longer of these types of stories are written, as they have more material to draw from than the listing of expanding numbers under varying circumstances).

The Library here spans a broad spectrum of 'all things fat and weight- related' fiction catering to various sub-groups and -interests - and as such does a pretty good job.

You just have to accept that you have offers here for the graphic weight gain as well as for the fat story-telling crowd. The authors and tags mostly give an indicator as to the type of story you can expect, so you can select your style and preferences - letting others pursue theirs.

After all - this is a library about fat, isn't it?

[Tad]

[quote=Ravens-son;1896983
I admit I say all this because I have a very simple, almost pure, stance on WG fiction. [/QUOTE]

I'd agree with that statement.

The rest of your post....I would not call myself in agreement with at all. Perhaps I like my stories murky much of the time?

Or to put it another way: I could maybe accept that weight gain fiction is the equivalent of dessert, as far as writing goes. But that doesn't mean all I want is sugar! (sure, once in a while a piece of pure sugar candy is nice., but for the most part I prefer a bounty of flavours, with sweet only being one, not too dominant, part of the whole).

[Ravens-son]

Originally Posted by agouderia

Being guilty of strongly plot centered stories myself, I in turn have no fondness for the simple enumeration of a two-dimensional character's often exaggerated or implausible weight gain.

Your definition of WG fiction imo is too narrow, as is focusses only on the 'gain' part. It excludes all stories to be found here you could probably capture better with the term 'fat fiction' - namely stories with and about fat or getting fatter characters.

Given the fact that there are hardly any overweight characters in mainstream fiction - in contrast to real life - there is a need for a niche where traditional stories with fat protagonists, and issues of their weight playing into their story, can be dealt with. Fat characters, gaining or not, offer a whole lot of potential for good stories as they very often receive literally bigger challenges thrown at them by societal perception. (And maybe thats also why more and longer of these types of stories are written, as they have more material to draw from than the listing of expanding numbers under varying circumstances).

The Library here spans a broad spectrum of 'all things fat and weight- related' fiction catering to various sub-groups and -interests - and as such does a pretty good job.

You just have to accept that you have offers here for the graphic weight gain as well as for the fat story-telling crowd. The authors and tags mostly give an indicator as to the type of story you can expect, so you can select your style and preferences - letting others pursue theirs.

After all - this is a library about fat, isn't it?

My definition of weight gain fiction is "Stories that feature weight gain." I hardly see how that's 'too narrow.' My personal preference for weight gain stories is more narrow, yes. There are things I like and things I don't like, just as it is for anyone else.

And I deliberately didn't talk about straight fat fiction (where gain doesn't happen, or is so incidental and slight as to be irrelevent) because the original post asked about weight gain fiction. Not fat fiction, but weight gain fiction. There is a difference there.

As for "You just have to accept..." please tell me where I implied or stated that I am outright opposed to stories that don't appeal to me personally, that I think they are wrong. I never said that my preferences are the right and proper way for weight gain or fat fiction because obviously different people have different tastes. I deliberately did not mention any writers by name because, as I said, I wasn't attacking anyone or saying they were wrong. If Writer X has a style that I consider to focus too much on plot and character drama and not enough on the weight gain, I just won't read their works. This is not an indictment of their writing style, it is simply me choosing to look elsewhere for the stories that appeal to me.

I honestly don't understand why you feel the need to rise to the defense of the stories I don't like (including the entire fat fiction subgenre, which (again) I didn't say anything about). I'm not attacking them, I'm simply saying why I don't care for them. Or do you consider any and all criticism to be an attack?

[Ravens-son]

Originally Posted by Tad

I'd agree with that statement.

The rest of your post....I would not call myself in agreement with at all. Perhaps I like my stories murky much of the time?

Or to put it another way: I could maybe accept that weight gain fiction is the equivalent of dessert, as far as writing goes. But that doesn't mean all I want is sugar! (sure, once in a while a piece of pure sugar candy is nice., but for the most part I prefer a bounty of flavours, with sweet only being one, not too dominant, part of the whole).

To each their own. That was never up for debate here.

[agouderia]

Originally Posted by Ravens-son

As for "You just have to accept..." please tell me where I implied or stated that I am outright opposed to stories that don't appeal to me personally, that I think they are wrong. I never said that my preferences are the right and proper way for weight gain or fat fiction because obviously different people have different tastes.

I honestly don't understand why you feel the need to rise to the defense of the stories I don't like (including the entire fat fiction subgenre, which (again) I didn't say anything about).

I think your own original post answers your question why my response turned so critical quite well:

Originally Posted by Ravens-son

I admit I say all this because I have a very simple, almost pure, stance on WG fiction. WG fiction is about weight gain, anything else is just a distraction. I can understand wanting to write "serious" literature with three-dimensional characters and strong storylines, but I don't think you can 'elevate' weight gain fiction that much.

Again, if you want to write a story that is about things other than weight gain, why not write that story by itself and post it on some other website devoted to regular writing?

In the context of this board and your radically stated "weight gain only" approach the thinly veiled message of your suggestion is: "I don't want you writers who write fat fiction or WG stories that aren't all about the gain here - go away!"

In my post I tried to illustrate that not only do I not share this view, but also that it seems to be the policy of the library to be inclusive and offer a broader spectrum of all types and genres of weight related stories a forum.

After the pay-site board the library is the second most heavily viewed section of the Dims forums and well-written stories of all genres (from extreme WG to well-written romances with weight question only in the sub-text) get good responses and lots of views.
It's possible to pick and choose what works for oneself individually - so the concept of a wide variety of different types of weight stories obviously works for the majority.

[123Superpro]

For my ongoing story, and the only one I've written, I've worked the plot around various ideas I've had. So the plot isn't as important as the content itself really, for me.

[Tad]

I remember, way back in the day (when these forums only had the main and weight board, and stories were just posted along with everything else), I posted a story involving male weight gain. I got back the most vitriolic response telling me where to take my (a few adjectives deleted) male weight gain (more adjectives deleted), and what I could do with it. Yet look at how popular and well written many of the stories on these boards involving male weight gain are now!

I think it is pretty clear that there will always be some who only want to see what appeals to them, and there will be others who want to see more variety.

[zxc098]

having written a few stories and posted them on here with generally very good response from the comunity i can say that it really is a mxiture of both.

the main reason i started writting myself was because i got bored with the two extremes.

either it was all weight gain super fast and no plot or charecter developtment at all or the other extreame where writters drone on and on about nothing and the weight gain is a mear mention at some stage.

i said this in another post and some people didnt take to kindly hahah just my opinion.

[Big Beautiful Dreamer]

Yes, well said, zxc.

To me, reading a story that's little more than a series of numbers and measurements is like reading an inventory list. On the other hand, I have read a few stories here that make the gain incidental.

In the stories I write, I try for a blend. Whether the gain is intentional or accidental, it nearly always leads to a positive response within the protagonist or from the love interest. That positive response usually leads to a change in view towards not just acceptance but celebration of size acceptance, often in defiance of what social norms put forward.

Mine are more usually character-driven than plot-driven, but what I mostly aim for is that the weight gain is descriptive, not just numerical. That is, my writing goes into some detail, painting word pictures about how the various body parts are changing as weight is gained -- and how appealing those changes are.

So on one level you could say that my stories are primarily about weight gain ... but I can completely see someone like the OP posting them and not being interested because the weight gain doesn't necessarily start in the first paragraph. For me, it's a matter of having to know my characters before I can let them out to play. That might take a page or two of buildup.

But the WG comes right in there, and tends to drive the story once it shows up.

[growinluvhandles]

Whatever your formula, Big Beautiful Dreamer, just keep doing what you're doing!

[Scx]

Just like in every romance, the guy gets the girl, eventually...

Here, they get fat.

Anyhow, I'm with those who point out that WG fiction is, well, about weight gain. If I were to write science fiction that incidentally had fat people in it, that's not a WG story, that's an SF story (See: Wall-E).

I also should confess that the lengthy plot stories I write (See: "Lady Anne Woodbridge", "Owning Felicia", etc.) I rarely finish, because I'm not writing "Ivanhoe" here, I'm here for the WG and the sex and it's off to the races.

Stories entirely without plot are kinda dull, but just put in something as simple as a king wanting to keep his daughter around (See: All for You) is just fine by me.

Incidentally, for those of you who like plot, try the 69-word WG story challenge. You need to put plot, story arc, character development, and people getting fatter in sixty-nine words. None of mine quite cut it, but it's fun to try.

Finally, I started writing my own stories when I figured out that the stories out there, with exceptions, weren't for me. So I wrote my own. That's where the real balance, in my mind, is - It's in what you want, and if that's what you want, write it.

My 0.02$

Scx

[StrugglingWriter]

Well, it should be pretty clear where I stand, I think.

My two stories (Something's Gotta Give and "What I'd Like To Say...") are both quite heavy on gain *and* plot. In Something's Gotta Give, the main character has gained fifty pounds in about ten weeks, which is quite a heavy gain. In "What I'd Like to Say..." (http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...ad.php?t=21010) the main character gains over 230 pounds in a couple of years, and even more than that according to the narrator's insinuation at the end. I would not have been interested in writing either story if plot twists and character arc were not the pivotal aspects of the stories. But the character's relationship to her body and to eating constitute the central theme of each story. I found the experience of writing "What I'd Like to Say..." quite arousing. Something's Gotta Give, much less so.

[Blame Picasso]

Originally Posted by Big Beautiful Dreamer

Ditto to Swordfish. For me, either a character (or characters) or a plot will come along first. Then I usually set 'em up and let them out to play, sometimes being surprised at how things unfold. Most of my descriptive abilities center on the effects, both immediate and long-term, i.e., the feeling of fullness, the sated, dopey feeling that comes after a huge meal, and, longer term, descriptions of the appearance. I have little patience with stories that clock up the numbers, reeling off lists of scale readouts and pants sizes, because that doesn't help me visualize. Oops, getting off topic. Sorry.

This is why you write so well. Everything BBD said, because I couldn't say it better!

[Scx]

Somewhere in the dustier bits of the old archives that is my head is this quote about how to do a story arc:

"Create beautiful, lovable, and interesting characters, and then do horrible things to them".

As authors, we can do that, without even getting arrested...

Scx

[Blame Picasso]

Originally Posted by Scx

Somewhere in the dustier bits of the old archives that is my head is this quote about how to do a story arc:

"Create beautiful, lovable, and interesting characters, and then do horrible things to them".

As authors, we can do that, without even getting arrested...

Scx

I love that!

[Scx]

"Create beautiful, lovable, and interesting characters, and then do horrible things to them".

Originally Posted by Blame Picasso

I love that!

The idea being that they, our dear characters, rise above their trials and tribulations and come out the other end better (fatter?) people than they were before.

Scx

[stuffedbellylover]

Looking at the matter with the eyes of an author the plot comes before the gain without any question... but I have to admit that my characters barely gain any weight as my story are mostly stuffing related...

Looking at it as a reader I like the authors who really care about the plot rather than the gain... I especially like stories with realistic amounts of WG and where the characters don´t bulk up to 350 or more pounds... So it´s no question that authors like BBD, Ned Fox, X-22, Samster and many more doing it that way find my very approval... :-)

Best wishes,

Chris