White Guys & Black Guys

[liz (di-va)]

Originally Posted by FatAndProud

I want to know why the hell white guys ask me if I date/fuck black men?

Speaking to my own experience here: I have been asked this so many times. Not by everybody, just -- many times over the years. And not just by white men: also Latin, Middle Eastern... Often it's asked in a roundabout way, like: so you must have gone out with a lot of black guys, eh. Or so black guys must really like you eh.

Very occasionally there is a somewhat neutral curiosity in it, about how the world/fatland works and how their lives intersect with other people - but usually the reason for asking is just negative, period; insecure, competitive, racist, arrested, fearful...

The worst/most overt comments in my experience have been from men who are immigrants themselves: it's like they are learning the lessons of American racism incredibly well in their desire to fit in. Especially weird when it comes from dark-skinned guys. Points out how learned and arbitrary it all is. It's depressing.

Anyhow, it's one of those questions that generally makes my heart sink. Like - ungh!

[bigmac]

Originally Posted by room4dessert

I could not disagree with that last stereotype with enough ferocity...

I believe the two women espousing the view that white guys only date fat women on the down low are from the midwest (PunkyGirl's from Ohio and I believe Fat and Proud is from the same general area). Their location may be playing a part. I've never lived in the midwest but I've heard many horror stories from fat women who have. I did live in the greater New York City area for a few years. When comparing NYC to west coast cities (SF, Portland, Seattle) its clear that fat women have a much easier time out west. Geography matters.

[superodalisque]

Originally Posted by bigmac

I believe the two women espousing the view that white guys only date fat women on the down low are from the midwest (PunkyGirl's from Ohio and I believe Fat and Proud is from the same general area). Their location may be playing a part. I've never lived in the midwest but I've heard many horror stories from fat women who have. I did live in the greater New York City area for a few years. When comparing NYC to west coast cities (SF, Portland, Seattle) its clear that fat women have a much easier time out west. Geography matters.

nope. those guys are just user dufuses. i've lived nearly all over the country and i've been dated absolutely out in the open everywhere i've ever been which is mainly up an down the east coast even though i have lived in the midwest and the southwest as well. it was only in the fat community, especially online that i learned there was even such a thing as a fat closet. if aguy actually likes you he'll take you out no matter how reticent he might be about what other people will say if he respects you.

[superodalisque]

sometimes my male friends who are minorities say they will ask if someone dates in their own race to try and figure out if they are dating them as a matter of last resort or whether they're just being dated for themselves. i have friends who say they won't date a woman who dates exclusively outside of her race because it can be a sign of low self esteem and it would be just as racist not to date people of your own kind and they find racism of any type distasteful.

[Yakatori]

Originally Posted by liz (di-va)

"...The worst/most overt comments in my experience have been from men who are immigrants themselves: it's like they are learning the lessons of American racism incredibly well in their desire to fit in. Especially weird when it comes from dark-skinned guys. Points out how learned and arbitrary it all is."

Unfortunately, no one part of the world has a monopoly on strong attitudes about race. So, people also likely import certain attitudes about class or caste stratification from growing up in other places.

Originally Posted by bigmac

" Their location may be playing a part. I've never lived in the midwest but I've heard many horror stories from fat women who have. I did live in the greater New York City area for a few years. When comparing NYC to west coast cities (SF, Portland, Seattle) its clear that fat women have a much easier time out west. Geography matters."

Of course it does. As in, it could just as easily be so much worse. Pockets of the South being the most racially segregated; although, to a noticeably lesser extent in some of its newer & more recently growing cities. Conversely, in the North, particularly where the architecture-itself is a bit older, this seems to work in reverse.

But is it really fair to compare just NYC to just the upper part of the West Coast? In any East versus West, I think you have to include LA & all of Southern California into that equation.

We've talked about this before, the draw of Hollywood, etc.... Aspiring models, people who wanted to be on TV, ect...even with fairly solid work experience, education, & resumes that're quite willing to do just about any kind of work for less. Just because of the proximity to the studios and lifestyle.

And how that makes for a social-environment where even just more average size people would be made to feel "fat" or "un-fit" by comparison.

Still, the West Coast scene jumps. Maybe it's partly because of that.

Originally Posted by tonynyc

"I wonder if demographics play a part in this - I've seen plenty of successful educated couples in happy relationships."

Well, all anyone has to do is take a quick look in the couple's thread to see that it's certainly not a matter fat. Nor is it about race.

Definitely, who you are more than where you are. In as much as where you ultimately come to live can also reflect that as well. What else is going on your life, what you bring to the table. What you are prepared to give.

As such, I think a lot of the younger single people are sort of conditioned to the idea that stuff like this should just happen to them. For them.

And, necessarily, they also tend to see a side of coupling that, intentionally, is always putting its best foot forward. Absent or exclusive of all of the sacrifice and conflict that inevitably comes with it, that's just a part of the cost.

Originally Posted by superodalisque

...if a guy actually likes you he'll take you out no matter how reticent he might be about what other people will say if he respects you.

I agree, but to a point: bigmac & tony do have a point in terms of how demographics and geography point towards how large of a pool anyone's selecting from, of how many people will even have said opportunity to decide if you're worth it. But, naturally, the more options necessarily attracts more competition. So, it works both ways.

Originally Posted by superodalisque

"...to try and figure out if they are dating them as a matter of last resort or whether they're just being dated for themselves. i have friends who say they won't date a woman who dates exclusively outside of her race because..."

Yeah, there is that. I also think, for some people, it can be an issue of not wanting to be defined by being "the one" deviation.

For example, lots of English people might have reservations about starting a relationship with a Mennonite. But, knowing that person had dated one or two English people in previous relationships might assuage some of those concerns. However, if that same person (Amish or Hutterite) had only dated English....would you really want to be someone's adult-rumspringa? I mean, I could see how that might not feel-right from a certain point of view.

[tonynyc]

Originally Posted by bigmac

... When comparing NYC to west coast cities (SF, Portland, Seattle) its clear that fat women have a much easier time out west. Geography matters.

I'm curious to your conclusion and how does BBW on the west coast have it easier than those living in (NYC) or other east coast cities?

Originally Posted by Yakatori

For example, lots of English people might have reservations about starting a relationship with a Mennonite. But, knowing that person had dated one or two English people in previous relationships might assuage some of those concerns. However, if that same person (Amish or Hutterite) had only dated English....would you really want to be someone's adult-rumspringa? I mean, I could see how that might not feel-right from a certain point of view.

True and one could throw in issues of personal experience- how comfortable are folks dealing with another group. The interesting thing about NYC is that one could only stay within the borders of their own neighborhood and have limited interactions with folks outside their group.

[The Orange Mage]

Lemme throw this one out there: Anecdotally, my experience is that fat women who are pear shaped DRASTICALLY prefer black men, and that black men in turn really really really like the pear-shaped fatties over other fat women. True? Or just a limited sample size on my part?

[tonynyc]

Originally Posted by The Orange Mage

Lemme throw this one out there: Anecdotally, my experience is that fat women who are pear shaped DRASTICALLY prefer black men, and that black men in turn really really really like the pear-shaped fatties over other fat women. True? Or just a limited sample size on my part?

African American - Latino - Middle Eastern communities have an appreciation for BBW in general. Culturally less hang ups. I can say living in any bigger city (not only NYC) can give an "awareness" of folks up to a certain degree..

It is nice to see BBW, BHM, SSBBW and SSBHM who are proud of themselves and couldn't give a flying fuck what some stranger thinks.

Now regarding body types- I think there may have been an older DIMS thread that did a survey on this regardless of culture...

[LillyBBBW]

Originally Posted by The Orange Mage

Lemme throw this one out there: Anecdotally, my experience is that fat women who are pear shaped DRASTICALLY prefer black men, and that black men in turn really really really like the pear-shaped fatties over other fat women. True? Or just a limited sample size on my part?

I would say this trends to be true in social media and such. Not saying that my experience represents the whole world but I was once being chatted up by a guy I met at one of the BBW dances. It seemed odd to me because I recalled seeing his ad on one of the dating sites where he said he preferred pears. I mentioned it to him as the smoking gun for why I didn't respond to it and he said yes he tended to like pears but it wasn't a hard and fast rule. (It was hard and fast enough for him to put in his profile though. ) But yeah, it's the trend but most pears I know say they feel no sense of advantage from it at all. Just a higher number of leering perverts but otherwise the normal intellecutal elements apply.

[bigmac]

Originally Posted by tonynyc

I'm curious to your conclusion and how does BBW on the west coast have it easier than those living in (NYC) or other east coast cities?
...

When I was working in the NYC area I hardly ever saw BBWs in social settings (e.g. going for a drink after work etc.). I had quite a few BBW co-workers but they never socialized. When I was out socializing (not at BBW events) I encountered very few BBWs. During my time in the NYC area I also heard (or overheard) many negative comments about fat women.

Out west (SF, Portland, Seattle) things were quite different. Fat co-workers went for drinks with the group. When I was out and about I actually encountered fat people socializing. I heard far fewer negative comments.

My experience with LA is more limited but every time I go to Venice Beach (a really cool place) I see lots of BBWs (often very provocatively dressed).

Caveat: my experience with NYC was primarily limited to Manhattan and nearby parts of New Jersey. I suspect things may be quite different in other areas.

[CurvaceousBBWLover]

Originally Posted by FatAndProud

This is such a distorted post. I don't think there's any reasonable answer as to care about the ethnicity that I may be interested in. How do you know race matters to me? Have I led you to believe any which way? No. lol Furthermore, these white men clearly had a fetish (it wasn't like a OH YOU DATE BLACK MEN? I'M NOT TALKING TO YOU, YOU ABOMINATION). One wanted me to fuck a bunch of black guys, get a stretched out gaping pussy because of these "big black cocks" (I want to see one, I think they're with unicorns and leprechauns) and get pregnant by them. Then he wanted to raise the babies (the white guy wanted to raise the babies). One time a guy just said he straight up liked cuckolding and wanted me to do it. White guys are the only men that literally want you to conform to their fetishes or move on.



I lol'd. Damn WASP's.

The problem with these guys is they are living in a pornographic fantasy instead of living in the real world.

[superodalisque]

Originally Posted by CurvaceousBBWLover

The problem with these guys is they are living in a pornographic fantasy instead of living in the real world.

absolutely. all of the talk of people choosing mates based on body size and shape shows that. people may want it but overtime i have seen a lot of my friends in serious long termed relationships not with those types of people whose looks they say they are so dependent on. people grow up. people sometimes even fall in love--with someone who has absolutely nothing to do with what they thought they wanted.

[superodalisque]

people always talk penises but the real reason some of my white gfs love to date black men is for no other reason than for the relief of being a man who isn't flying his freak flag so high ALL of the time. he can be freaky and have fetishes but generally it's not cool to always be treating fat women like a circus ride or a 4h club animal husbandry contestant.

[Yakatori]

Originally Posted by superodalisque

"...people grow up. people sometimes even fall in love--with someone who has absolutely nothing to do with what they thought they wanted."

NNNNNOOOOOoOOOOOOoooOOOOoOO!!

[loopytheone]

Originally Posted by superodalisque

people always talk penises but the real reason some of my white gfs love to date black men is for no other reason than for the relief of being a man who isn't flying his freak flag so high ALL of the time. he can be freaky and have fetishes but generally it's not cool to always be treating fat women like a circus ride or a 4h club animal husbandry contestant.

I have to admit I don't like the way you are repeatedly making sweeping generalisations about all white guys. This isn't the first time you have done that in this thread. To play devil's advocate, if I turned your sentence around and said that the reason I/some/scarecrows like to date white men is because they don't 'fly their freak flag so high' or treat fat women 'like a circus ride or a 4h club animal husbandry contestant' then that would come off as prejudice and racist. I don't see that it is okay to make sweeping, offensive generalisations about all white guys any more than it is okay to make those sort of comments about all black guys or all asian guys or whatever. Just something for you to think about.

[KHayes666]

Originally Posted by superodalisque

people always talk penises but the real reason some of my white gfs love to date black men is for no other reason than for the relief of being a man who isn't flying his freak flag so high ALL of the time. he can be freaky and have fetishes but generally it's not cool to always be treating fat women like a circus ride or a 4h club animal husbandry contestant.

I know you and I have been to bbw events and dances before but you must have missed some of the ones I went to where some of the black men behaved so stereotypically that the head of the NAACP would have put a gun to his head if he saw it.

Not all white men suck, not all black men suck. Some white men suck, some black men suck. More importantly, the stereotypical white and black men both suck.

For every "So darling, want to go for a ride in my Ferrari" girl rejects him "Fuck you then, I wasn't really into you anyway." There's a "Daaaaaaaayum baby u so fineeeee" girl rejects him *guy smacks his lips* sheeeeeeeet I was only playin, u mad ugly bish!"

and yes...I've seen and heard both.

[tonynyc]

Originally Posted by superodalisque

people always talk penises but the real reason some of my white gfs love to date black men is for no other reason than for the relief of being a man who isn't flying his freak flag so high ALL of the time. he can be freaky and have fetishes but generally it's not cool to always be treating fat women like a circus ride or a 4h club animal husbandry contestant.

so this is real reason - no ifs ands or butts...
by the way - how about women that are freaks . sometimes life brings you all types of folks

Originally Posted by loopytheone

I have to admit I don't like the way you are repeatedly making sweeping generalisations about all white guys. This isn't the first time you have done that in this thread. To play devil's advocate, if I turned your sentence around and said that the reason I/some/scarecrows like to date white men is because they don't 'fly their freak flag so high' or treat fat women 'like a circus ride or a 4h club animal husbandry contestant' then that would come off as prejudice and racist. I don't see that it is okay to make sweeping, offensive generalisations about all white guys any more than it is okay to make those sort of comments about all black guys or all asian guys or whatever. Just something for you to think about.

nothing much to think about - statements are what they are

[Yakatori]

I think it's fair for you guys to either take offense or be critical of how cavalier, just the tone of it, in how some have been in characterizing white guys (who're into fat women; and, by some inference, also black guys too).

But I don't really believe anyone actually means it in quite the way it can come across. Especially in the case of how superodalisque is describing how some of her friends feel about some guys. I mean, maybe it would read better to have the word some repeated throughout the same sentence several times, emboldened. But, just based on context, I tend to just infer it automatically.

That being said, I think there is something to the idea that how precise you are in what you put out there will have some effect on how other people feel like they should respond.

So, for example, in as much as anyone can be inclined to take advantage of someone; if you generally come at people like you're punching above your own weight... So, maybe there is something different or unique that's at play when a person from one background approaches someone else from an entirely different one. And vice-versa.

Either way, it's probably more constructive for people to feel like they can talk about stuff like this candidly. Even if that sometimes means hearing things which we-ourselves find disagreeable. Least of all because, as white guys or blacks guys, it's some (helpful) clue as to what we're up against in approaching those who've regularly been made to deal with all of this.

[swordchick]

Superodalisque didn't say all white men. Actually, her comment is on the same level as the one by FatAndProud.

Originally Posted by FatAndProud

White guys are the only men that literally want you to conform to their fetishes or move on.

[Yakatori]

I think it's easy enough to see how that could be misconstrued. Even if you're not the person to whom it applies (i.e. not into fetishes or not insistent on people conforming to them or just not a white guy)

[superodalisque]

it might sound prejudiced but i'm doing people a favor by telling them the truth like i would any friend. a lot of people soft peddle stuff because they're afraid they might lose guy friends who are like that or a chance at a guy. but i would think people would like to know what actually does get said. people can label it as racist if they want but this is what i have heard from a WHOLE LOT of women. anybody can say i'm lying if it makes them feel better. i just want to do somebody the favor of being completely honest for a change. i'm not sure i can be called prejudiced because of my personal racial make up and who i date but go right ahead lol.

i think for a lot of people it's easier to believe that some women prefer black men because of anything other than how they treat them. then they can continue on with the same habits and pretend that whatever it is is beyond their control to repair.
ignorance is bliss?

PS: i have never ever heard one black man say that he would leave a woman or not want her if she lost weight --not once. something to think about.

[FatAndProud]

Racism is alive and well. I despise when white people call a black person a nigger for no reason other than them having a beautiful-ass tan. I correct every ignorant white person that thinks I wanted to hear their ignorant comments. I would fuck Darius Rucker, but on the same token....I'd fuck Pierce Brosnan, Ceasar Milan, and any Mediterranean men. Who cares? Judge a person by their character within, not that that is genetically manifested. It seems so stupid to me. I can only eat the blue M&M's because the other colors have different food dye than I've ever been exposed to. Oh no!

[superodalisque]

Originally Posted by FatAndProud

Racism is alive and well. I despise when white people call a black person a nigger for no reason other than them having a beautiful-ass tan. I correct every ignorant white person that thinks I wanted to hear their ignorant comments. I would fuck Darius Rucker, but on the same token....I'd fuck Pierce Brosnan, Ceasar Milan, and any Mediterranean men. Who cares? Judge a person by their character within, not that that is genetically manifested. It seems so stupid to me. I can only eat the blue M&M's because the other colors have different food dye than I've ever been exposed to. Oh no!

exactly. all that matters is being treated right.

[bigmac]

Originally Posted by superodalisque

exactly. all that matters is being treated right.

No one race has a monopoly on treating women well -- or badly. I was thinking about my own observations and noted that the three worst guys vis-a-vis poor treatment of women I've had the misfortune to interact with were all of different races (one white, one black, one Hispanic).

[CurvaceousBBWLover]

Originally Posted by loopytheone

I have to admit I don't like the way you are repeatedly making sweeping generalisations about all white guys. This isn't the first time you have done that in this thread. To play devil's advocate, if I turned your sentence around and said that the reason I/some/scarecrows like to date white men is because they don't 'fly their freak flag so high' or treat fat women 'like a circus ride or a 4h club animal husbandry contestant' then that would come off as prejudice and racist. I don't see that it is okay to make sweeping, offensive generalisations about all white guys any more than it is okay to make those sort of comments about all black guys or all asian guys or whatever. Just something for you to think about.

Superodalisque is not talking about all white men on earth. She is talking about men her friends have dated.