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Old 11-30-2016, 02:12 AM   #26
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That is exactly what we do not want to happen and why we're discussing this question to change the spin of things.

It does surprise me though that so few of the former HP regulars are participating here.

Leaves room for various interpretations: no interest, no ideas - or indeed just in hiding to start the mudslinging all over again?
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Old 11-30-2016, 04:05 AM   #27
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:40 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cobra Verde View Post
Same posters, same moderator? Just call it Hyde Park. That's what it'll be after a week.
Glad to see you have so much faith in the project the mod team has been volunteering all their time too.

As agouderia said, we are trying to get away from the problems Hyde Park had and feel that this would be the best way to get a fresh start for everyone. Also, whilst BBD will remain the main moderator for the board, the rest of the mod team will be involved in decision making/infractions/responding to reported posts.

Instead of coming here just to crap all over the enthusiasm of a group of people who are volunteering a lot of energy and effort into trying to make a better board for everyone, why don't you try getting involved here? Make constructive criticism, tell us your opinions and your thoughts without the snark. I'm not a mind reader, I don't know what you are passionate about in a board, or what changes you would want to see, unless you tell me. In fact, this is what this whole board was created for, for people to tell the mod team what they want. I actually have threads planned for this board in the future discussing people's opinions on rules, structure etc etc and I'm genuinely excited to hear from you all.

If people who are interested in the new political board choose not to participate here then that is fair enough, but they can't complain that they didn't have the opportunity to voice their opinions. Like I said, in the future I am planning to ask about more 'serious' issues than the title of the new political board but I thought it would be a fun way of getting people engaged with the new board here at first.
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:21 AM   #29
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Same posters, same moderator? Just call it Hyde Park. That's what it'll be after a week.
This is a very valid point. A forum is a mixture of posters, moderators, and rules. The mod will be the same. The posters will be the same unless there are plans for a dramatic housecleaning. With that stated, we are 2/3 of the way to being Hyde Park all over again. So that just leaves the rules. Which no one from the top has laid out what they have in mind.

Once the powers that be offer up what they want to see as rules,then I think you might get more feedback. In the meantime, don't expect to hear much response.
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:46 AM   #30
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As I mentioned before, I admin a Facebook group of current and former Dimensions posters. The elimination of Hyde Park came up and here was the feedback. At least you have an idea of what served as a turn off.

"It looks like Dimensions management is closing Hyde Park down. Good? Bad? Too little too late? They're opening a new political board in January but I am not sure why."

I haven't been there in a long time, and don't plan on going back. I'm assuming that place turned into a shitshow over the course of the election. It was like that regularly anyway.

Honestly, it's devolved in to a teetotal shit show. It hasn't been that bad since ...Vince's reign of terror back in 2006. There's a core group that should've been shown the door a long time ago. All they seem to do is post in that one forum and they live to aggravate each other. Just continuous barbs. Plus the rules enforcement has been head scratching lately to say the least. Now why in the blue hell would you close it down only to reopen a new political board is just...weird. I guess they will have new rules that are a mile long and will be designed to kill it eventually. I don't know. Just drain the damn swamp (yes. I went there) and pave over it. It does nothing to further the site.

I doubt they want it to be anything other than a wank site, in time.

Probably bad... the political nonsense will probably spill out into other areas after that. I've been back there but struggling to get into the place again.

Just saw apparently it's only a reset, with a new 'Political' forum opening in the new year, so I reckon it'll end up the same before too long

It's the whole new rules thing that makes me wonder. New infractions system?
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:57 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by ScreamingChicken View Post
As I mentioned before, I admin a Facebook group of current and former Dimensions posters. The elimination of Hyde Park came up and here was the feedback. At least you have an idea of what served as a turn off.

"It looks like Dimensions management is closing Hyde Park down. Good? Bad? Too little too late? They're opening a new political board in January but I am not sure why."

I haven't been there in a long time, and don't plan on going back. I'm assuming that place turned into a shitshow over the course of the election. It was like that regularly anyway.

Honestly, it's devolved in to a teetotal shit show. It hasn't been that bad since ...Vince's reign of terror back in 2006. There's a core group that should've been shown the door a long time ago. All they seem to do is post in that one forum and they live to aggravate each other. Just continuous barbs. Plus the rules enforcement has been head scratching lately to say the least. Now why in the blue hell would you close it down only to reopen a new political board is just...weird. I guess they will have new rules that are a mile long and will be designed to kill it eventually. I don't know. Just drain the damn swamp (yes. I went there) and pave over it. It does nothing to further the site.

I doubt they want it to be anything other than a wank site, in time.

Probably bad... the political nonsense will probably spill out into other areas after that. I've been back there but struggling to get into the place again.

Just saw apparently it's only a reset, with a new 'Political' forum opening in the new year, so I reckon it'll end up the same before too long

It's the whole new rules thing that makes me wonder. New infractions system?
Okay, thank you so much for this, this is exactly the sort of feedback we are looking for. We can't work with people unless we know what the issues are so this sort of thing is vital in making the new board work.

In answer to some of those questions, we did consider for a long while simply removing the political board altogether. Hyde Park had turned into such a swirling mess of anger and hatred that it was not only non-productive for the members involved, it was a blight on the forum and a huge strain on the mod team. Things had to change. But we decided that we want to have a chance to work with everybody to fix things. Politics is important, and having a blanket ban on discussing politics on the forums at all seems unfair. Hyde Park might not have been functioning well but it was one of the most frequently posted in boards and I heard from other users that if the format could be changed to make it more of a debate and less a mudslinging match, they would be more inclined to join in. I want make a politics board that is for the community, that everybody here can get involved in without their opinions being washed away under a wave of insults.

As for the new rules... I probably should have made things clearer regarding them. Perhaps I went about this wrong, in my excitement at having a chance to work with everyone. The reason we haven't made a list of rules is because we want input from the community on them. I was going to make a big thread about all this tomorrow, because I thought we could have a new thread on an issue from the mod team once a week here whilst the political board is down to try and keep everybody active and engaged. But maybe I should have made the situation regarding the rules clearer.

The reason we haven't released a list of rules is because we want your feedback on them. We have ideas, tons and tons of ideas and we want to share those and work with the community to make rules that we all want. We want to hear your ideas, the things you think are important and to adjust the rules of the new board around those. Like I said, I am planning on making a thread more in detail about the rules tomorrow but perhaps I should have said that before.
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Old 11-30-2016, 11:18 AM   #32
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Okay, thank you so much for this, this is exactly the sort of feedback we are looking for. We can't work with people unless we know what the issues are so this sort of thing is vital in making the new board work.

In answer to some of those questions, we did consider for a long while simply removing the political board altogether. Hyde Park had turned into such a swirling mess of anger and hatred that it was not only non-productive for the members involved, it was a blight on the forum and a huge strain on the mod team. Things had to change. But we decided that we want to have a chance to work with everybody to fix things. Politics is important, and having a blanket ban on discussing politics on the forums at all seems unfair. Hyde Park might not have been functioning well but it was one of the most frequently posted in boards and I heard from other users that if the format could be changed to make it more of a debate and less a mudslinging match, they would be more inclined to join in. I want make a politics board that is for the community, that everybody here can get involved in without their opinions being washed away under a wave of insults.

As for the new rules... I probably should have made things clearer regarding them. Perhaps I went about this wrong, in my excitement at having a chance to work with everyone. The reason we haven't made a list of rules is because we want input from the community on them. I was going to make a big thread about all this tomorrow, because I thought we could have a new thread on an issue from the mod team once a week here whilst the political board is down to try and keep everybody active and engaged. But maybe I should have made the situation regarding the rules clearer.

The reason we haven't released a list of rules is because we want your feedback on them. We have ideas, tons and tons of ideas and we want to share those and work with the community to make rules that we all want. We want to hear your ideas, the things you think are important and to adjust the rules of the new board around those. Like I said, I am planning on making a thread more in detail about the rules tomorrow but perhaps I should have said that before.
Good points - I think this level of discussion and input from others is needed and it is nice to have other voices heard...

1. It is important to look at this issue of the "New Political Thread" from all lenses. The Good, The Bad and the Indifferent

2. I think an honest an open discussion regarding the rule(s) and input from all is needed in terms of what would one deem as an infraction.
Hopefully issues regarding the infraction system will be fixed - or at least a better way for participants to address such issues without resorting to creating a second ID.


3. As far as the Mod- it becomes a murky issue when the Mod decides to participates in a thread an offers an opinion ( which is fine);but, the role(s) can become blurred between being a "thread participant" and a "moderator"...

4. Given the current "political" climate - I don't know if you are going to get genteel debates or mudslinging (maybe both) .. sign of the times..
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Old 11-30-2016, 11:21 AM   #33
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Same posters, same moderator? Just call it Hyde Park. That's what it'll be after a week.
Who knows tune in next month - Same Bat Time and Same Bat Channel

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Old 11-30-2016, 11:52 AM   #34
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I've said it before and I'll say it again...a moderator as a participant in a discussion about politics is a horrible idea. The cop shouldn't be the jury. The player shouldn't be the umpire.

You can't have healthy discussions when one of the biggest debaters is the moderator. Do one or the other but not both.
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Old 11-30-2016, 01:51 PM   #35
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Good points - I think this level of discussion and input from others is needed and it is nice to have other voices heard...

1. It is important to look at this issue of the "New Political Thread" from all lenses. The Good, The Bad and the Indifferent

2. I think an honest an open discussion regarding the rule(s) and input from all is needed in terms of what would one deem as an infraction.
Hopefully issues regarding the infraction system will be fixed - or at least a better way for participants to address such issues without resorting to creating a second ID.


3. As far as the Mod- it becomes a murky issue when the Mod decides to participates in a thread an offers an opinion ( which is fine);but, the role(s) can become blurred between being a "thread participant" and a "moderator"...

4. Given the current "political" climate - I don't know if you are going to get genteel debates or mudslinging (maybe both) .. sign of the times..
As of this moment, I've been trying to fix the infraction system bugs for a couple of weeks with no luck so far. I see no reason why it isn't expiring and think I might have to ask the manufacturers of the forum software itself to take a look. At least then I can stop trying to fix things and giving Xyantha test infractions.

Hopefully BBD herself will be able to give her opinion on this when she has the time. It is something to discuss, I agree.
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Old 11-30-2016, 01:55 PM   #36
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I believe the problem is the Mods are either oblivious to or want to ignore the beginnings of Hyde Park. It came about as a collection point for all the non-fat acceptance or fat lifestyle related tangential discussions that were occurring across all the sub-boards of the Dims website. "Take it to Hyde Park" was the equivalent of "take it outside".

While the recent discussions in HP would quickly boil down to "you're an idiot", "no, you are", it kept those participants engaged if not entertained and not contaminating the rest of Dims. (And some posts were certainly entertaining, especially considering they were coming from adults with advanced degrees.)

The only thing I really have seen different is since Dims has so atrophied in visitors to the majority of other sub-boards, the Mods seem to be plying their Mod skills in the only place that was really active on Dims in recent years, HP. (What's the use in being a Mod if ya can't use the Ban Hammer!)

Maybe I'm too much of a veteran of the old flame wars on the BBS' and the Usenet Newsgroups but I never really saw anything that significant in the HP area that would justify some of the Mod actions that were taken. And if they wanted to create a calm, quiet, family friendly environment, well Dims has the wrong material for that. And since so many people that used to come to Dims left citing heavy handed moderation, I don't see anything having changed. It's only been focused on HP in recent months, so focused it was shut down entirely.

Whatever tongue-in-cheek moniker is chosen for the new "political board", the only way to limit speech the Mods find objectionable will be to chase off the speakers they find objectionable. And that will last only until some new, young, energetic newcomers find Dims and it all starts over again, until the Mods give up in frustration and leave. Heavy handed moderation begats high intensity trolling, and worse. That's how we have gotten to this point. The "kids" that were told to play tackle football outside are now being told to only play touch football or something their aunt finds much more civil.

Restore HP and ignore the vocal complaints coming from those onlookers clutching their pearls in terror from what was said in HP. Except for illegal actions, it should be a fully free speech zone.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:24 PM   #37
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Or, to offer an alternative viewpoint --- the ownership, administration, and mod team have all entirely or mostly changed over the past few years, which in turn leads to a different approach to the boards. Part of that is not leaving in place rules (official and as applied) just because 'they were always like that.'

Maybe the new political board will end up just like Hyde Park, maybe it will be a more positive influence on the community here, maybe it will become an unused wasteland, maybe it becomes so horrible that we give up on the concept altogether ... but I don't think that a political board which is a better place (than Hyde Park was) is such an impossible dream that it isn't worth making the attempt.

Additionally, if people have examples from the last couple of years of what they view as heavy handed moderation (outside of the Hyde Park infraction game), I would really appreciate a PM on those. That would be very valuable feedback for the current team.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:57 PM   #38
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Glad to see you have so much faith in the project the mod team has been volunteering all their time too.

As agouderia said, we are trying to get away from the problems Hyde Park had and feel that this would be the best way to get a fresh start for everyone. Also, whilst BBD will remain the main moderator for the board, the rest of the mod team will be involved in decision making/infractions/responding to reported posts.

Instead of coming here just to crap all over the enthusiasm of a group of people who are volunteering a lot of energy and effort into trying to make a better board for everyone, why don't you try getting involved here? Make constructive criticism, tell us your opinions and your thoughts without the snark. I'm not a mind reader, I don't know what you are passionate about in a board, or what changes you would want to see, unless you tell me. In fact, this is what this whole board was created for, for people to tell the mod team what they want. I actually have threads planned for this board in the future discussing people's opinions on rules, structure etc etc and I'm genuinely excited to hear from you all.

If people who are interested in the new political board choose not to participate here then that is fair enough, but they can't complain that they didn't have the opportunity to voice their opinions. Like I said, in the future I am planning to ask about more 'serious' issues than the title of the new political board but I thought it would be a fun way of getting people engaged with the new board here at first.
It's not a lack of faith. With one glaring exception I have faith in the abilities of all of the mods here. Unfortunately that exception is going to continue to be the primary mod after presiding over (and exacerbating) that dumpster fire of a forum for years. And along with the same toxic membership I don't think a good faith effort and new rules are going to make a difference for long. You're keeping too many of the elements the same. It may be fine for a week, but the old hates will return.
The regulars in that forum have come to despise each other. Their overwhelming reason for posting is to antagonize one another. New rules aren't going to make bigmac and deliman decide after several years and thousands of posts of trolling garbage that they want to have substantive discussions. People rarely change in life, let alone online. They are who they are.
It's cool that you care and admirable to put in effort but you're setting yourself up for disappointment when the same elements that ruined the last forum ruin the new one.
You should just scrap the idea of a political forum and call it a day. Your energies would best be used elsewhere. I don't mean on the board, I mean for anything. Reading a book, making a sandwich, spinning in a chair until you pass out...
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Old 11-30-2016, 03:25 PM   #39
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It's not a lack of faith. With one glaring exception I have faith in the abilities of all of the mods here. Unfortunately that exception is going to continue to be the primary mod after presiding over (and exacerbating) that dumpster fire of a forum for years. And along with the same toxic membership I don't think a good faith effort and new rules are going to make a difference for long. You're keeping too many of the elements the same. It may be fine for a week, but the old hates will return.
The regulars in that forum have come to despise each other. Their overwhelming reason for posting is to antagonize one another. New rules aren't going to make bigmac and deliman decide after several years and thousands of posts of trolling garbage that they want to have substantive discussions. People rarely change in life, let alone online. They are who they are.
It's cool that you care and admirable to put in effort but you're setting yourself up for disappointment when the same elements that ruined the last forum ruin the new one.
You should just scrap the idea of a political forum and call it a day. Your energies would best be used elsewhere. I don't mean on the board, I mean for anything. Reading a book, making a sandwich, spinning in a chair until you pass out...
It is pretty telling when the most notorious posters in HP are glaringly quiet.

They had their drug of choice away(fighting with each other)taken from them and suddenly the place is more enjoyable. It maybe the only time in recorded history when the war on a drug was successful.

And I'll echo again what Cobra Verde is saying...you need more than a refreshing of the rules and a new name to remove the stink that Hyde Park left. Ten years of rot doesn't go away in six weeks.
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:02 PM   #40
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I don't know if I'm one of the "notorious" ones, but I have nothing to contribute. I'm at a loss as to how a new political board won't quickly devolve into Hyde Park Redux. I would love for that no to happen, as I enjoy a good debate. A good debate does not involve endless logical fallacies and an overabundance of jpegs.
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:42 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuelingfire View Post
Cut the fat
Just the trimmings
Barely palatable
The wine list
I really do like "The Wine List"

Lots of cheese to go with that wine
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It's been so long and I've been putting out fire with gasoline"
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:11 PM   #42
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I like "the wine list" but on this forum people might assume it has to do with actual wine since we have a foodie board, maybe The Whine List or The Soap Box.
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Old 11-30-2016, 11:41 PM   #43
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The Soap Box, I like it.
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Old 12-02-2016, 02:50 AM   #44
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Once the remodeling is complete, it will be up to the moderation team and the administrator to name a moderator for the new board.

If they invite me to continue as moderator, I agree that it is important to be far less active in discussions. I don't know that I can promise to be completely inactive -- but I agree that "far less active" is a good goal.

I relied heavily on Conrad when he was Webmaster to guide my modding behaviors. I like to think that I have been modding mostly with restraint. I will gladly acknowledge that the weeks leading up to the election were a difficult time for restraint.

I also remember posting an Inaugural State of Hyde Park thread in January that listed all the warnings and infractions that each poster had received as a way to make public accounting of whether I infracted conservatives more than liberals or vice versa.

Regarding concerns about heavy-handed modding, in 2015, I handed out something in the neighborhood of 41 infractions -- the frequent flyers can be seen below. In rereading it, I also discovered that I was pretty high on the # of posts list at 85 for the year. My goal will be to have no more than 10 percent of that (8 or so) in the next year on the new board.

So, Leishycat had 10 infractions.
BigMac had 6.
Biodieselman had 5.
Tracii had 4, as did GoodDaySir (formerly Saoirse).
Surlysomething, WildZero, and DonaldChump had 3.
Deliman, The Orange Mage, and Rojodi had 2.
No one else had more than 1 in 2015.

I issued 24 warnings.
Once again, Leishycat is far and away the winner with 13 warnings.

So, Leishycat had 13 warnings.
BigMac had 6.
Biodieselman and Deliman had 2 each.
No one else had more than 1.

The link to that thread can be seen here. http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...d.php?t=118210
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