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Old 03-09-2017, 02:48 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Imp View Post
And that *gasp* a woman should have the grace to accept admiration and not keep a man under the constant tyranny of her insecurities--and in the end stamp him and his admiration as deviant and oppressive.
I see I'm not the only one to notice this double standard.

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Originally Posted by Imp View Post
TwoSwords, the answer is, within the bounds of tact and reasonable consideration of another person, you should be able to. The people here should be encouraging you to, and should be holding women to a standard of reasonable grace, flexibility, openness and support for others, and acceptance, which are ideals that you'll find in the basic code of conduct for these boards.

Rather than chaining you to the whims of the FA-shaming ninnies.
Thank you. This perspective has been missing from the discussion, and it's most appreciated.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:52 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Imp View Post
Intriguing. What are the groups?
To start with, I'm not thin (1,) and I'm an FA (2.) I'm also a nerd (3,) Catholic (4,) and am rather tradition-minded in my approach to ethics (5.) In reality, I probably belong to more groups than this that are discriminated against in ways endorsed by the popular media, but mostly, they would be related to specific positions I hold that the mainstream doesn't, like certain philosophical or scientific views.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:57 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Tracii View Post
Compliments are not a bad thing and yes girls do like them but not every day from the same guy.
I have had that happen too and after week or so it gets creepy.
This also would seem to be an insecurity over which I have no control. The most I can do is try to be positive as much as possible, and not anticipate emotional disasters before they happen, doing my best to be temperate in the initial stages, before the relationship has fully gotten underway. Once it has, there's no reason why a guy shouldn't be permitted to compliment the woman every time he sees her.
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Old 03-09-2017, 04:33 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by FreeThinker View Post
So you're single, then?
Do you really think that after having benefited enormously from the sacrifices of others, no woman, anywhere, will be able to make the sacrifice of being gracious and polite to those who love her from time to time?

What a sad statement on the state of modern relationship maturity (or lack thereof.)
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:30 AM   #80
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It really is something.

Here a guy goes on a FA board, a place where his admiration is supposed to be accepted and encouraged, and he meets a wall of criticism and condemnation.

Oh, there's plenty of other advice on what to do and how to do it, which he also asked for. It's all offered in the vein of, "You don't know what the hell you're doing"--which admittedly he copped to some as well. That advice generally conforms to the almost completely unuseful truisms that he should be tactful and that if he isn't the other person might feel uncomfortable. Well, duh.

But the guy can't get any positive support for wanting to do nothing but extol someone for being beautiful and sexually appealing. No one even tells him the message that conceptually he should be able to, that there's nothing wrong with his preference, to embrace fat admiration.

And that *gasp* a woman should have the grace to accept admiration and not keep a man under the constant tyranny of her insecurities--and in the end stamp him and his admiration as deviant and oppressive.

Which is something he's suffered from most of his life.

Shame.

TwoSwords, the answer is, within the bounds of tact and reasonable consideration of another person, you should be able to. The people here should be encouraging you to, and should be holding women to a standard of reasonable grace, flexibility, openness and support for others, and acceptance, which are ideals that you'll find in the basic code of conduct for these boards.

Rather than chaining you to the whims of the FA-shaming ninnies.
He is not being FA-shamed. He is being given advice on how to give complements in a socially acceptable manner. You are assuming he knows the "the bounds of tact and reasonable consideration of another person." Twoswords, that is in no way meant as an insult. That is a large component of this entire discussion.

I think a lot of the responses have been from seasoned FAs. He doesn't have to listen to us. This advice is being given in the hopes of making, what he wants to do, easier on himself.
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:40 AM   #81
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To go back to the very first post ... I've said a few times that I really see three modes of being an FA (people can be one, two, or all three of these):

- an admirer of fat on the class(es) of people you are sexually attracted to (fat as a sexual preference)

- an admirer of fat on the classes of people you are not sexually attracted to (fat as a general preference)

- an admirer of fat on oneself (I short hand this one as 'auto-FA'), although technically I suppose that this could also be broken down into liking it for sexuality reasons and liking it as a general preference (I suspect that they frequently overlap, but I've certainly seen posts here and there by people who only have one of those).

Two-Swords, you sound like you are all three types (although on the auto-FA side I'm not so clear if your own fat is sexual for you or not), but many FA are only one or two of the types. I'm an 'all of the above' person myself, and I know it took me a while to truly accept that people could legitimately like fat only on some people but not on others -- I could grasp that some people didn't like fat, but the only liking it sometimes puzzled me.

So here is part of the challenge for you. There are far more fat people than there are auto-FA, for whatever basket of reasons. It is not usually obvious who is an auto-FA and who is not. For people who are fat but not admirers of their own size, any compliment to their appearance is apt to bring up all the negative thoughts they may have about their own appearance. This creates a cognitive dissonance -- having two competing ideas in ones mind at once (he thinks I'm beautiful / I know I'm fugly, or whatever). Cognitive Dissonance is uncomfortable, and the most common reaction is to reject one of those concepts so we can get back to a more comfortable state. Given this sort of situation, what is the easier one to reject -- something you have felt for years, possibly most of your life, or the random compliment from someone you may not even know very well? Obviously the latter. Hence the fairly strong rejection that you may get for such compliments.

Now, are there fat female FA out there who love feel beautiful being fat and would love to hear it? For sure. But there aren't so many of them from what I can tell, so the odds of any given person being that combination if fairly rare.

Now, what you can do is modify your compliments to avoid setting up the cognitive dissonance. It isn't being as open or effusive as you might like, but it can get your compliment accepted and you leave the encounter with her more likely to be happy and hopefully you can too. Some won't be happy that you intruded in their world at all, or won't trust any stranger or any compliment, so it is more reliable with people whom you at least have a passing acquaintance with (even if it is just that they've sold you coffee a few times, you are often on the same bus, or whatever). Timed wrong any compliment can be annoying or cheesy, but ... they can work.

i.e. you see a fat woman who you think is gorgeous. Take a moment to take in the details, and compliment one of those that seems like it may be something she would take pride in. "I love that dress on you, it is great!" "Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to say that I love the colour of your hair" "Hey Sarah, your makeup is amazing today" "Those Doctor Who leggings are amazing, that is so fun!" (after having been wished a good day) "Thanks -- coming here for coffee and a smile always helps get it off to a good start."

And then walk away, don't expect it to start a conversation, be reciprocated, or even acknowledged. But you've shown that someone appreciates some of how they present themselves, and that is a start.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:21 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by fuelingfire View Post
He is not being FA-shamed. He is being given advice on how to give complements in a socially acceptable manner. You are assuming he knows the "the bounds of tact and reasonable consideration of another person." Twoswords, that is in no way meant as an insult. That is a large component of this entire discussion.

I think a lot of the responses have been from seasoned FAs. He doesn't have to listen to us. This advice is being given in the hopes of making, what he wants to do, easier on himself.
You speak for yourself, and certainly, your advice has been consistently good and aimed, for the most part, at my actual goals, but I notice a lot of advice that's more aimed at the goals that the person giving the advice would have in my place.

Even then, they're not necessarily trying to shame me (they might just not understand what I mean. I do have a tendency to explain myself poorly from time to time.) However, with remarks about how much I'm rejecting "good advice" and how there's no one in the world who can accept my attentions (or words to that effect,) it is a bit hard to see what the intended purpose is, if not to discourage me from real relationships as a whole.

I have noticed one or two commenters, however, who seem to mainly comment along a common theme, and the only reason I'm not pointing this out to them is that I directly asked for information on how others handle this. I'm willing to listen to whatever answers they have to give, though I may not necessarily take their advice, if doing so would keep me from my goals.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:46 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Tad View Post
Two-Swords, you sound like you are all three types (although on the auto-FA side I'm not so clear if your own fat is sexual for you or not),
It's not. The feeling of fat in one or both of my hands provides an overwhelming sense of comfort and relief from stress, which helps me to relax and not worry so much for a while. At the moment, it's my only really sure defense against the inner stresses I was discussing earlier, though I do, of course, have other methods. It is definitely a feeling, and a strong one, but not sexual in nature.

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This creates a cognitive dissonance -- having two competing ideas in ones mind at once (he thinks I'm beautiful / I know I'm fugly, or whatever). Cognitive Dissonance is uncomfortable, and the most common reaction is to reject one of those concepts so we can get back to a more comfortable state.
I kind of already know what's causing the problem. The only issue is in finding a solution.

This is why I mentioned scenarios in which I stop what I'm doing to listen to how someone's day went, or tolerate and answer their questions about my day, without looking gloomy. I face situations all the time that make me uncomfortable by nature, because I want to do right by the ones I love.

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It isn't being as open or effusive as you might like, but it can get your compliment accepted and you leave the encounter with her more likely to be happy and hopefully you can too.
It just occurred to me that you might mean for this paragraph to be a guide to basic introductions, in which case, much of what I'm about to say isn't relevant. Introductions are prior to the compliment phase (normally.) If, however, you mean for this to apply to longer-term or progressing relationships of the compliment phase and beyond, then...

Sorry, but... When I use a word, I mean it in precisely the way I use it. So, when I use the word "purpose," or the words "no choice," I mean them in precisely this way. I can divide my expressions into portions if necessary, but I'm afraid that no portion can be acceptable to a person who's already rejected my aesthetics in any sort of committed way. She doesn't necessarily have to be an FA herself, but if she's not, her feelings about fatness would need to be very minor; like something she doesn't think about much, or doesn't think is a big deal, because no one who hates an aspect of themselves; much less one that lies so centrally in my emotional state, can ever be happy with my kind of attention.

Besides, if I want to avoid expressing my feelings, the easiest way is to avoid the direct cause of those feelings.

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i.e. you see a fat woman who you think is gorgeous. Take a moment to take in the details, and compliment one of those that seems like it may be something she would take pride in. "I love that dress on you, it is great!" "Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to say that I love the colour of your hair" "Hey Sarah, your makeup is amazing today" "Those Doctor Who leggings are amazing, that is so fun!" (after having been wished a good day) "Thanks -- coming here for coffee and a smile always helps get it off to a good start."
I'm seeing dress, color, hair, makeup, leggings, coffee, and smile... Everything that isn't helpful in expressing my feelings. In fact, some of these remarks would be deceptive in my case, since the only kinds of clothing I have any real feeling about are winter coats and hoop skirts.

Well... Glasses too, depending on whether you consider them clothing.

I can totally understand using some of these remarks as early-stage compliments, until you can determine whether the person is compatible, but I'd probably need a good half-hour of squeezing my arm to ignore the tension that would build from having such staggering feelings, and expressing everything but those feelings. As I've said before, possible in small doses, but it wouldn't work for a longer period.

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Originally Posted by Tad View Post
And then walk away, don't expect it to start a conversation, be reciprocated, or even acknowledged. But you've shown that someone appreciates some of how they present themselves, and that is a start.
Meaning, an introduction of sorts. I've done those before, and they're not that hard. Still, I prefer to learn the truth about the other person's feelings quickly, so I know whether I have any reason for making myself suffer further.
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Old 03-09-2017, 03:08 PM   #84
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And that *gasp* a woman should have the grace to accept admiration and not keep a man under the constant tyranny of her insecurities--and in the end stamp him and his admiration as deviant and oppressive.
That would be nice, wouldn't it? Rumsfeld once said, "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had." Likewise I give my advice based on the reality I've experienced, not the reality I wish I've experienced. It seems reasonable to expect some degree of grace in accepting a compliment but for many reasons this is very difficult for a lot of women. Sometimes it's just uncertainty on their end and in some cases it's their own experiences telling them to be defensive. Whatever their rationale, it's real to them, and therefore it's important to recognize this and know a well meaning compliment may not always be taken at face value.

It would be nice if it was, but I've lived my whole life in a reality where that is just not the case.
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Old 03-09-2017, 03:33 PM   #85
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That would be nice, wouldn't it? Rumsfeld once said, "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had." Likewise I give my advice based on the reality I've experienced, not the reality I wish I've experienced. It seems reasonable to expect some degree of grace in accepting a compliment but for many reasons this is very difficult for a lot of women. Sometimes it's just uncertainty on their end and in some cases it's their own experiences telling them to be defensive. Whatever their rationale, it's real to them, and therefore it's important to recognize this and know a well meaning compliment may not always be taken at face value.

It would be nice if it was, but I've lived my whole life in a reality where that is just not the case.
It is important to understand your options. That way, you can (to use the army example,) send rations, fuel and ammunition where they're likely to be needed, and plan troop deployments without being distracted.

In my case, though, changing the nature of my feelings has always been a non-option, and expressing them at a small intensity (for long periods,) or not at all have always been non-options. I have other options, if I don't find any in this discussion (I'm creative and have a good imagination,) but that's a topic for another discussion. I'm not going to assume things are that bad until I'm sure it's true.

I will say this; I and those like me are faced with a situation now, where willing ears are at an extremely high premium. There's not a lot of competition, and that's a situation that's begging to be taken advantage of by anyone who's up to the task. Anything that I do, which can serve as an alternate solution to my problem would also have the effect of drastically reducing that premium, and removing the opportunity for profit. That's why I'd rather find a real solution. (Sorry for being vague on this point, but I'm only in the planning stages of a project related to this, so I don't have many specifics to offer, and depending on what I discover here, I may or may not even finish it at all.)
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Old 03-09-2017, 03:58 PM   #86
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Not sure, but something smells... freshly.
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Old 03-09-2017, 03:58 PM   #87
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Compliments are not a bad thing and yes girls do like them but not every day from the same guy.
I have had that happen too and after week or so it gets creepy.

I have tried to help but it looks like I am no help so good luck.
Hey Tracii, in my opinion this entire thread is about as creepy as creepy gets...
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Old 03-09-2017, 05:01 PM   #88
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Not sure, but something smells... freshly.
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Hey Tracii, in my opinion this entire thread is about as creepy as creepy gets...
I'm confused too. Freshly? Should I know that term?

Also, thank you so much for implying that it's creepy to want to express distinctly-positive emotions. I wonder if your relatives treat you the same way.

I have nothing but respect and admiration for the people of the planet Vulcan, but I don't really want to be one.

In fact, I think I've been quite conciliatory, trying to learn everything I can about what's going on and how to deal with it, based on what's being talked about. There is one thing I refuse to give ground on; only one. I want the freedom to express my feelings of appreciation for the fatness of someone. The fact that, even here, this one, single thing is treated with such hatred is a sign of just how bad things have been permitted to get, and just how much of a double standard some people seem to have around here, that feelings of insecurity are to be coddled in all cases, but feelings of admiration and delight, it's still considered fair game to attack.

P.S.: I wouldn't have said any of that, if only you'd commented in some way relevant to the original post, or any of the discussion that's since followed.
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:57 PM   #89
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That would be nice, wouldn't it? Rumsfeld once said, "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had." Likewise I give my advice based on the reality I've experienced, not the reality I wish I've experienced. It seems reasonable to expect some degree of grace in accepting a compliment but for many reasons this is very difficult for a lot of women. Sometimes it's just uncertainty on their end and in some cases it's their own experiences telling them to be defensive. Whatever their rationale, it's real to them, and therefore it's important to recognize this and know a well meaning compliment may not always be taken at face value.

It would be nice if it was, but I've lived my whole life in a reality where that is just not the case.
I don't think any of that replaces the importance of upholding a culture that holds people to a standard of graciousness and that expects people to eventually mature. If you want to cross the bridge, you have to pay the toll. That doesn't make the destination worth it.
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:15 PM   #90
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Just because you have the freedom to express your feelings on fatness with a large woman doesn't mean you should. That depends on the female in question and how she feels about it.
It would be very self centered on your part not to at least honor her opinion on the subject.
If she doesn't mind you obsessing over her fatness then fine but if she doesn't like it are you going to be a dick anyway and make her feel like shit because you only love her for her fatness and not her personality.
Relationships are give and take and never easy so there is work involved to actually get along and make it work.
You seem like its all about you and not about you two as a couple.
You appear to be a very stubborn person not willing to take suggestions to help you work thru your issues..
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:05 AM   #91
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Okay, I can't help you with your dilemma, but maybe you should know why people have a problem with it.



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...thank you so much for implying that it's creepy to want to express distinctly-positive emotions. I wonder if your relatives treat you the same way.

First, what you describe is not an emotion. It's an urge or a desire. You stated, in replying to me, that you are not prepared to trust a woman. If you don't trust her, you don't have 'distinctly-positive' emotions for her. You may think she looks attractive, but this is not an emotion.



Quote:
I want the freedom to express my feelings of appreciation for the fatness of someone.

You've got that freedom. Be prepared that some may exercise their freedom not to want to hear it.

In the case of those who may have been derided for their appearance, the mere mention of their physical presentation could justifiably set off some alarms. Self-acceptance is self-acceptance, not your acceptance.

Of course there are many women of size who are completely comfortable with their appearance, who revel in it, and who are quite aware (without a validating opinion from a male) that they are attractive. To have this reiterated ad nauseum could be taken as an implication that perhaps they should be considered unattractive by most people, save for the White Knight graciously bestowing his praise.

And then there's the 'creep' factor.

Effusive praise for one's physical attributes from a stranger or casual acquaintance is...well, it's creepy.

You don't get to decide what creeps someone out, any more than you can dictate what they should feel good about.



Quote:
The fact that, even here, this one, single thing is treated with such hatred is a sign of just how bad things have been permitted to get, and just how much of a double standard some people seem to have around here, that feelings of insecurity are to be coddled in all cases, but feelings of admiration and delight, it's still considered fair game to attack.

There is no double standard at play here. I would wager that, without 'feelings of insecurity' (on the part of large women) to battle, you'd find it difficult to present yourself as a savior solely by dint of your dropping a few 'nice' words.

Perhaps I misread you, though.

Why would someone's 'insecurity' not be worthy of consideration?

'Coddled'? Is that what common decency looks like to you?

Nobody is attacking 'feelings of admiration and delight'. What's being attacked is borderline harassment.



Please Note:

I do not profess to speak on behalf of the Dimensions population en masse. We are not a monolith.

I am only expressing opinions based on empathy, respect, and consideration. These opinions are almost certainly not representative of those held by every last poster here.

Rest assured, there could be many reasons people have taken exception to your views.
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:15 AM   #92
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I don't think any of that replaces the importance of upholding a culture that holds people to a standard of graciousness and that expects people to eventually mature.

Well-said. Not a 'double standard'. A standard.



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I'll probably steal that one.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:00 AM   #93
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I don't think any of that replaces the importance of upholding a culture that holds people to a standard of graciousness and that expects people to eventually mature. If you want to cross the bridge, you have to pay the toll. That doesn't make the destination worth it.
This is it exactly. A toll is one thing, and it's a toll I'm probably willing to pay, provided what's on the other side is something I can tolerate.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:06 AM   #94
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Just because you have the freedom to express your feelings on fatness with a large woman doesn't mean you should. That depends on the female in question and how she feels about it.
It would be very self centered on your part not to at least honor her opinion on the subject.
I do this every day. As I've said before, I have several fat women who I know, who I don't express my feelings to for various reasons. Some because they hate the way they look and won't be talked out of it, therefore being incompatible, and others because they're already married, and such overt attentions would be... well, probably not appropriate.

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If she doesn't mind you obsessing over her fatness then fine but if she doesn't like it are you going to be a dick anyway and make her feel like shit because you only love her for her fatness and not her personality.
That depends on whether you consider it "being a d#%k" to decide not to pursue the relationship further, because our emotions are incompatible with each other.

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Relationships are give and take and never easy so there is work involved to actually get along and make it work.
And I'm willing to do that work, provided the relationship on the other end is something I actually want to continue. Is she?

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You appear to be a very stubborn person not willing to take suggestions to help you work thru your issues..
Again. I have no control over what my feelings are, over how strong they are, or over what I need from relationships. That will not change. Most other things are open to revision. I don't consider that "unwillingness to take suggestions." As I said, I think I've been quite open to various options with regard to achieving this central goal.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:42 AM   #95
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First, what you describe is not an emotion. It's an urge or a desire. You stated, in replying to me, that you are not prepared to trust a woman. If you don't trust her, you don't have 'distinctly-positive' emotions for her. You may think she looks attractive, but this is not an emotion.
This is incorrect, and a misunderstanding of my feelings.

Happiness and joy are feelings. Relief is a feeling. These feelings come about under certain conditions, and describing them any better than "I feel relieved/happy" requires going into specifics. If the only feelings I can explain are why I'm angry or miserable, then that's hardly a relationship I can imagine anyone wanting to be a part of.

Secondly, what I said was, and I quote...

"I want to trust someone again, which is why I'm still on the lookout for someone I can be open with"

If you have good evidence to think that the person you're talking to is about to jump down your throat for expressing your feelings, trusting them not to would be foolish. No, it's not a positive emotion to mistrust someone, and it's also not a positive emotion to get openly angry at someone who's only trying to pay you a compliment.

P.S.: You could make the same claim (urge, not feeling!) with regard to insecurity. Insecurity is an largely-unwarranted urge to despise good things about yourself, and/or yourself in general. In a certain sense, all emotions are urges.

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In the case of those who may have been derided for their appearance, the mere mention of their physical presentation could justifiably set off some alarms. Self-acceptance is self-acceptance, not your acceptance.
I don't expect anyone to accept me right away, but they'll have to do it at some point, or that's not much of a relationship, is it?

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Of course there are many women of size who are completely comfortable with their appearance, who revel in it, and who are quite aware (without a validating opinion from a male) that they are attractive. To have this reiterated ad nauseum could be taken as an implication that perhaps they should be considered unattractive by most people, save for the White Knight graciously bestowing his praise.
I'm sorry to hear that, because as I've said, this is the one matter in which I have basically no choice. Yes, I can understand, in theory, how a person could think that black is white in this way, but unless there's some way for me to head this off and prevent it, I'm willing to accept that there's not much I can really do about it.

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You don't get to decide what creeps someone out, any more than you can dictate what they should feel good about.
Or what I feel good/bad about. Admittedly true, but I seriously don't think that Kristal grew more and more emotionally stressed by leaps and bounds, the longer she avoided posting that here, which is just about all I can think of that would have justified it. I mean, it's not relevant.

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There is no double standard at play here. I would wager that, without 'feelings of insecurity' (on the part of large women) to battle, you'd find it difficult to present yourself as a savior solely by dint of your dropping a few 'nice' words.
With those feelings, it's impossible to be even liked.

And yes, there is a blasted double standard. One class of people's feelings are being treated as trumping the feelings of another class of people. That's the application of different rules of conduct to different groups, which is what a double standard is.

I also don't appreciate the implication that I could, do or have take advantage of people's insecurities to make my feelings seem more legitimate. Ever since high school, I've sworn that I'd never inflict myself on any women until I knew it could work. It's why I start, as I said, with baby steps, and never manage to get past them due to the awful, awful insecurity that everyone seems to nurse.

Now, insecurity is an emotion of a sort (fear, essentially,) and I'm not fully convinced that people can alter their emotional state, but I am convinced that people can exercise effort, to face their fears, just as I, every day, face my far-stronger emotions and conquer them, in spite of the harm it does to my own emotional and psychological state. I think it's quite reasonable to expect people to accept at least some responsibility for the blasted choices they've made, instead of loading everything on me.

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Why would someone's 'insecurity' not be worthy of consideration?
It is, provided that person is also willing to show consideration for the feelings of others, and doesn't demonstrate all the signs of someone who just snaps at every emotional (as you say) urge that occurs to them.

I've never criticized happily_married's suggestion that self-control should be practiced. I think it should be. I do it every day. The problem is that I seem to be the only one holding up a mountain here, while everyone else grins, and laughs, and cries, and gets mad over minutiae, and I'm sick of being that guy who shoulders the whole burden, while others shift responsibility.

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'Coddled'? Is that what common decency looks like to you?

Nobody is attacking 'feelings of admiration and delight'. What's being attacked is borderline harassment.
Incorrect. Harassment is a very specific thing; namely; "aggressive pressure or intimidation." If anyone is being harassed in this context, I am, by my own blasted emotions.

In a business or workplace context, harassment represents threats or the withholding of business rewards or payments in exchange for sexual favors of one sort or another (sometimes even just things like style of dress.) I have done nothing of the sort. Instead, I took the very reasonable position that a relationship cannot work if one of the people involved is entirely committed to opposing the normal feelings of the other person.

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I do not profess to speak on behalf of the Dimensions population en masse. We are not a monolith.

I am only expressing opinions based on empathy, respect, and consideration.
Not for everyone, and that's the problem.

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Rest assured, there could be many reasons people have taken exception to your views.
In a very real way, I expect people to find me challenging. None of my views, after all, are popular or well-liked (at least, none of the ones I've expressed here.) However, this has been such a big trend in my life that, past a certain point, I had to learn to justify myself with reason, rather than relying on others, who had only criticism to offer. I can do that now; I can present reasons for the things I say, do and even for my feelings, and as far as I can see, that's a darn sight more work than most people have put into examining their emotions. I still don't think that anything I've said here has been unreasonable or unfair. If anyone should be capable of accepting that the world contains people of many kinds, who should be treated, at the very least, with respect, and perhaps even some degree of sympathy for their struggle, (especially in cases where people are blasted determined to tell them that they have no hope, and no one will ever love them,) it's the people on this board, yet I see no degree of tolerance whatsoever when it's something you don't already like...

...Which is blasted hilarious, when you consider that that "something" is the whole reason this section of the board exists.

I'll keep watching this thread for useful tidbits, but I'm about ready to say, "forget this!"

Oh, and by the way...

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Effusive praise for one's physical attributes from a stranger or casual acquaintance is...well, it's creepy.
Let's say, I don't feel like shouldering the emotional burden of responding to this, because I hate repeating myself, and that makes me feel uncomfortable, so instead, I just wave to you and tell you to re-read the entire thread, to learn why this doesn't apply to me (and it doesn't. I've explained that in spades.) Given that you've never asked me to do this, would that be fair to you?

To me, feeling uncomfortable around others has become a normal part of life, because others despise everything I treasure, and they're very open about it (on this issue and on numerous others.) Well, I see no reason whatsoever why they should have total license to terrify me by telling me that they think I've lost weight, but I can't even say anything good without being branded a degenerate. (And before you tell me I should consider how they feel, I do, [a consideration that I am not receiving in return, if you'll notice,] but I don't feel their feelings. I can't, so my knowledge of how they feel does nothing to make this situation any more fair. That's the point.)

I don't know whether you meant this comment to be an actual response to what I'd said, or just to the thread topic itself, so I don't know how I feel about it, other than confused.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:32 AM   #96
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My mistake, then.

You're the victim.



Some people find martyrdom hot, so you're welcome.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:56 AM   #97
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My mistake, then.

You're the victim.
I dearly hope that's not all that you absorbed from what I said. I thought my points were very well-reasoned. At the least, I don't see any logical errors when I read them over.

Actually, no. I'm not a victim, because I won't allow myself to be. If a relationship seems to be turning into that, I reconsider the relationship. That person I mentioned, whose remarks horrified me so much? I've done my best to avoid them. It's rational and acceptable to avoid people if your emotions are incompatible with theirs. But don't try to tell me I'm alone in the world. I'm not. No one is.
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:10 PM   #98
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I'll probably steal that one.
Careful. Disney's fanatical about rights.

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Old 03-10-2017, 02:39 PM   #99
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I'm locking this thread, as I think it has gone beyond the point of productive discussion. People have said their bit, the OP has responded, and I think letting it run farther is not going to be productive.
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