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Old 10-16-2017, 01:53 PM   #26
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Amaranthine, I don't know if that is intentional or not, but the way you wrote it sounds like you are assuming that the fat person has mental stuff that causes some of their issues with food? Which certainly could be the case .... but I don't think would always be the case?
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:57 PM   #27
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Amaranthine, I don't know if that is intentional or not, but the way you wrote it sounds like you are assuming that the fat person has mental stuff that causes some of their issues with food? Which certainly could be the case .... but I don't think would always be the case?
No, of course not. I was referring to the most problematic possible cases, in terms of guilt. I think cases where the person's relationship with food isn't that way are more clear cut, as one can defer to personal autonomy more readily.
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:03 PM   #28
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I do think it's fair to say most people who reach 500 lbs have some type of eating issues rooted in something less than pleasant.That doesn't mean I couldn't choose to get bariatric surgery or diet.
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Old 10-16-2017, 06:13 PM   #29
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If I get too fat for my partner's comfort for a variety of reasons like mobility, health, hobbies, etc, I am OK with them being concerned. It makes me happy to think someone would be concerned for me. I wish I had someone in my life like that right now!

It also goes the other way. If I've legit gotten too fat for my partner for whatever reason, then I want them to be happy and know they are loved too...so I'd drop the weight back to where they are happy / comfortable after we talked about it. It's not like relationships happen in a vacuum. There would be discussions, understanding, etc.

Yeah, I'm greatly simplifying, but that's pretty much how I see it. "Oh I got so fat my girlfriend / wife is concerned or unhappy. Let's talk about it and resolve it."

Now onto the other topic of FA guilt. Feel guilty all you want for liking me fat. Just keep it to yourself and enjoy my belly. If you start to make me feel guilty about it, then I'll have an issue and we will deal with it. Ideally you won't feel guilty and you will just make me some brownies and juggle my moobs while we watch Stranger Things.
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Old 10-16-2017, 09:51 PM   #30
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I wasnít sure I would dip my toes into this, but reading through this thread made my brain swirl... Forgive the diatribe in advance, but I tend to write a lot when I write ;-)

I'm in the no-guilt column. I view it as a zero sum game. It never changed the way my brain works, and it wonít change the people I admire.

However, the kind of relationship one is in (or maybe a relationship history) is such a factor too. So Iím not saying guilt is a wrong thing to feel, I did once deal with guilt myself, mostly related to an old dysfunctional relationship situation that was saddled with insecurities and self-doubts (on both sides). But coming out the other side of that with my sanity intact seemed to make me feel more strongly that my preference is a gift and not a curse. Honestly (and sappily), this thread reinforces to me how incredibly lucky I feel that guilt/fear didnít keep me from being with someone I canít imagine my life without.

Do I like some of the gain and food stuff? Sure. Do I surreptitiously admire other very big men too? Heck yes, Iím no saint. But then thereís real life and itís just kind of normal. My guy knows I love his size, but he didnít just suddenly get an appetite when he learned that about me. And because Iím very active, heís probably more active than he otherwise would be, yet he still stays just as fat, soÖ

Iím not in denial that a more extreme end of weight can impose discomfort and potential risks. But itís also pretty clear, even within this thread, that everyone has a very different definition of what they think the point of unhealthy is with regards to weight. One guy can be 25 pounds over his preferred weight and be incredibly uncomfortable while another may weigh 400 and be perfectly happy in his own skin. But if we must assign some guilt, Iíd like to send a big dose over to the medical community (and diet industry), for encouraging repeated weight loss cycles that do more harm than good to the body and its metabolism over time; not to mention preventative health care avoidance because of lazy docs who weight-blame rather than diagnose. Up against that multi-billion dollar faction, baking the hubs a treat from time to time doesnít feel so unscrupulous.

Iím all-in with Dwes on agency and I cringe at concern when it goes down the path of condescension. And donít we all take our own risks? I drive in aggressive city traffic knowing thereís a chance that at some point I could get into an accident; and I run in places where the air quality isnít 100% great, I cycle on roads with inevitably dumb drivers, and I often travel to cities with high crime rates, and every one of them has had some kind of terrorist attack. I could change my lifestyle, job, whatever, and avoid those things, but Iíd rather just be thankful that what I have and what I do brings me happiness today.

Tadís posts were also very wise, alluding to the universal truth that we are all imperfect humans and we bring those imperfections to our relationships regardless of the particulars. It seems healthier to just love who you love without unnecessary emotional burdens because life will always be too damn short.
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Old 10-16-2017, 10:58 PM   #31
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You can cry because it's over, or smile because it happened.

Or you can worry and feel guilty while it's still happening.

This third option tends to be my default position. This no doubt comes from an inflated ego that allows me to believe that all hardship and sorrow in the world is caused by me...'cause, you know, I'm just that powerful.

The guilt is not constructive.

Saying the guilt is not constructive is not constructive.

I'm using a phone and a cell service *right now as I type this* that I paid for with money that could have gone to famine relief, medical treatment for the poor, or to a homeless shelter.

I'm spending time *right now as I type this* expressing an opinion, when that time could have been used to sign an online petition, or to exercise, or to send a nice message to my mother.



We all feel guilt.

We all should.


Some feel happiness along the way.

We all should.
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Old 10-17-2017, 10:34 AM   #32
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I'm so torn on this topic.

I feel extreme guilt for liking something that, taken to an extreme point, could be bad for my partner.

That being said, I simultaneously feel no guilt, because I realize that I am not actually contributing to any weight he may gain (I have no time...at most, I can make one meal per day, and it's just not enough to make much of a difference). I've also told him numerous times that I wouldn't want him to change anything to get me off, and he understands.

So there you have it.
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:48 PM   #33
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It's a complex question, an maybe as an FA rather than FFA I shouldn't be butting in (although is there any difference when it comes to 'guilt' on this issue?), but I feel no guilt myself, because my partner is clearly hard-wired to love food and be fat, and would be this way with or without me. I love her as she is, but when the subject of weight loss comes up I let her know that I'll support her in that too, if that's what she wants. So far it isn't. If loving someone for who they are is 'enabling' then I don't think that's a sin.

Feederism, rather than passive enjoyment of a partner's natural inclination to be fat, may be more complicated ethical terrain. But the alternative to FAs in that nobody loves fat people or finds them desirable. That's surely a much worse outcome.
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:04 PM   #34
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I think that society may put more pressure on FFA than on FA? To me it feels that there is a traditional expectation (usually unstated) that women form the moral centre of a family or couple. So for FFA there is both a 'how could you be attracted to that?' and a 'how could you permit him to do that?' and I don't think guys get that to the same degree. I'll let the FFA comment further if they want.

-------------------------------

About the guilt thing in general, I could not, for the life of me, manage to make the point more eloquently than FreeThinker did. But I did think of of some of my personal justifications that I pull out when the guilt creeps in on me.

- I may not be the perfect person for her, who helps her lead her best possible life, but I'm also far from the worst.

- She is probably fatter than she'd be with a lot of partners, but she may also be more secure in her body and my attraction to her than she'd be with a lot of partners.

- She's fat enough to have some elevated health risks, but she's made all sorts of lifestyle changes to live healthier than she did growing up and far healthier than her parents modeled, so she could easily also be facing all sorts of other risks even if she were thinner.

- I probably do influence her toward fatness, but I also influence her toward regular walking and biking, eating lots of vegetables, and some other healthy habits.

- Maybe her weight hurts her health, but maybe our living alongside a busy road does too -- and if we lived further from traffic would the area be as good for walking and biking so would it really be healthier, and if she went through yo-yo weight loss and gain might that hurt her health more than being fairly steady around her weight?

I make no claim that those should absolve me of my guilt (nor do they do so fully), but they are what I use. Perhaps others can find their own counter-balances to their (F)FA guilt.
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:09 PM   #35
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I think that society may put more pressure on FFA than on FA? To me it feels that there is a traditional expectation (usually unstated) that women form the moral centre of a family or couple. So for FFA there is both a 'how could you be attracted to that?' and a 'how could you permit him to do that?' and I don't think guys get that to the same degree. I'll let the FFA comment further if they want.

-------------------------------

About the guilt thing in general, I could not, for the life of me, manage to make the point more eloquently than FreeThinker did. But I did think of of some of my personal justifications that I pull out when the guilt creeps in on me.

- I may not be the perfect person for her, who helps her lead her best possible life, but I'm also far from the worst.

- She is probably fatter than she'd be with a lot of partners, but she may also be more secure in her body and my attraction to her than she'd be with a lot of partners.

- She's fat enough to have some elevated health risks, but she's made all sorts of lifestyle changes to live healthier than she did growing up and far healthier than her parents modeled, so she could easily also be facing all sorts of other risks even if she were thinner.

- I probably do influence her toward fatness, but I also influence her toward regular walking and biking, eating lots of vegetables, and some other healthy habits.

- Maybe her weight hurts her health, but maybe our living alongside a busy road does too -- and if we lived further from traffic would the area be as good for walking and biking so would it really be healthier, and if she went through yo-yo weight loss and gain might that hurt her health more than being fairly steady around her weight?

I make no claim that those should absolve me of my guilt (nor do they do so fully), but they are what I use. Perhaps others can find their own counter-balances to their (F)FA guilt.
A further thought concerns all the other 'unhealthy' lifestyles couples engage in without guilt or social sanction. For instance, riding a motorcycle is a highly dangerous activity. But a lot of people go for it, and for many couples it's an important bonding factor. Are such couples 'enabling' each other in a destructive activity such that they should feel guilty? If I like to ride a Harley and my gf finds that attractive and sexy (I'm a 'rebel' etc.), should she feel ashamed of herself?

There is an enormous double standard around discussions of 'health,' especially when it comes to fat.
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:02 AM   #36
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You can cry because it's over, or smile because it happened.

Or you can worry and feel guilty while it's still happening.

This third option tends to be my default position. This no doubt comes from an inflated ego that allows me to believe that all hardship and sorrow in the world is caused by me...'cause, you know, I'm just that powerful.

The guilt is not constructive.

Saying the guilt is not constructive is not constructive.

I'm using a phone and a cell service *right now as I type this* that I paid for with money that could have gone to famine relief, medical treatment for the poor, or to a homeless shelter.

I'm spending time *right now as I type this* expressing an opinion, when that time could have been used to sign an online petition, or to exercise, or to send a nice message to my mother.



We all feel guilt.

We all should.


Some feel happiness along the way.

We all should.
I feel guilty for everything youíve mentioned so I guess Iím just prone to feeling guilty about stuff.
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Old 10-19-2017, 08:41 PM   #37
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I feel guilty for everything youíve mentioned so I guess Iím just prone to feeling guilty about stuff.

Or:
Quote:
I feel human for everything youíve mentioned so I guess Iím just prone to feeling human about stuff.


To others, maybe it's like people say: We are what we do.

To ourselves, it could be we are what we feel.



So you're not a sociopath -- get over it.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:45 AM   #38
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But the idea that simply by giving affection and intimacy you're doing fat person a disservice by validating their lifestyle is narcissism and denies the agency of fat people.
I couldn't decide which post to quote.

Normally I am not one who openly posts about personal experiences.
Anyway, here are some thoughts, but from the flip side / my perspective. If you are an FFA, imagine it being written by a SSBHM to / about FFAs.

I'm an SSBBW, over 50 years old. Have been over 400 for over 30 years. Have weighed near 600 in the past (and that was before discovering Dimensions, FAs, encouragers, and/or feeders). Currently weigh around 450. Weight fluctuates between 440 and 480, usually.

Was involved with FA/feeders from 2002 until 2009. It was my experience that only feeders were attracted to me/ wanted to meet me. Not FAs. After four bad experiences in '09 (each met via Dimensions), I decided to take a break. I met someone outside of Dimensions who was an FA. Never met in person. Another year wasted on someone who didn't deserve my time or attention. Later briefly became close to a non FA. A total loser/jerk.

One night (about a year and a half ago) I was goofing off online with a male FA/possibly feeder/encourager friend. I realized then that only certain men find me attractive and actually *get* / understand me. I realized then that no matter how much I was trying to protect my heart, that I knew what I needed, wanted, and missed.

I wanted, and needed, to be found attractive. I wanted and needed someone to find me sexy and desirable. I wanted and needed someone to view me as *normal* and *irresistible* even if I did weigh 480 some pounds. I wanted and needed someone who wouldn't be ashamed of me or my size and someone who was also mature and secure enough about their FAness. I wanted someone who would love *all* of me and who would appreciate all of my fatness. I realised that I missed "fat talk" and missed talking about me gaining/growing even if I was too fat to actually gain much more.

My point? Some of us do want to be appreciated and lusted after by someone special. We want and need to be found *hot*. We want and need to feel alive in every aspect of our being. We want and need to enjoy life in every way we possibly are able to.

If you live your life in fear or in shame, you are going to miss out on some beautiful and unforgettable moments and experiences.

Love me and create memories with me while I am alive and able to enjoy them. I want and need to feel passion. I want and need to share and give of my sensualness and love. Don't let my size or weight cause you to question or regret what could bring us both passion and intimacy and happiness. If you are attracted to me and find me sexy at my weight/size and if you love *all* of me, don't be afraid. I deserve to feel and experience all the emotions and physical intimacy, passion, and love and giving of myself and giving passion in return just like everyone else. Feed my desires. Feed our desires. Feed my/our fantasies. Don't keep me in a cage because you are ashamed or afraid.

Concern is appreciated, but know that I am fully aware and cognizant of my weight/size/health, and solely responsible there of.


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Old 10-22-2017, 02:21 AM   #39
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Now onto the other topic of FA guilt. Feel guilty all you want for liking me fat. Just keep it to yourself and enjoy my belly. If you start to make me feel guilty about it, then I'll have an issue and we will deal with it. Ideally you won't feel guilty and you will just make me some brownies and juggle my moobs while we watch Stranger Things.
I think you were being both sarcastic and funny here. I hope.

It's no fun being with someone who finds you sexy but who also is conflicted with their own FAness. "I love your belly" and "I love how fat you are" and "You turn me on so much" .... "but this isn't who I really am".

No, jackass. It *is* who you really are. You are also immature and lacking in confidence. You say you want a sexy and confident SSBBW who dresses sexy? Then grow a pair and grow up. Realise that if it gets you hard, then it *is* what turns you on / and it is who you *are*.

Bring me two dozen donuts and some of those fattening brownies... and don't let the door hit you on that little ass of yours on the way out. Good riddance. My fat ass and huge belly are for someone whom deserves the pleasure they bring!
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:10 AM   #40
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I think that society may put more pressure on FFA than on FA? To me it feels that there is a traditional expectation (usually unstated) that women form the moral centre of a family or couple. So for FFA there is both a 'how could you be attracted to that?' and a 'how could you permit him to do that?' and I don't think guys get that to the same degree. I'll let the FFA comment further if they want.
I've been around Dimensions since May 2001, and read the magazine prior to then. This is more of an observation than anything. From what I have seen and read, the majority of FFA are looking for or are in relationships with BHM/SSBHM. whereas the majority of male FA, encouragers, and feeders are looking for sexual gratification rather than relationships. There are the exceptions. :-)

I think that when someone desires a relationship and / or develops feelings for another, care and concern naturally exist and flourish. When you care about someone their well being is important to you.

On the other hand, when someone is only looking for a romp in the hay, they are not typically going to become emotionally invested.

Also factor in that it is generally females who open up / post about feelings / emotions / real life relationships, etc. Some males do, but that ratio is probably greater than 10:1.

So the "pressure" may generally be the same or possibly lean in the opposite direction. You have one faction who express the relating concerns and another who never get to or desire to arise to that level of intimacy.
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Old 10-22-2017, 04:50 AM   #41
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Thank you all for your responses and insides.
I re-opened the issue because in one way or the other I think it pop ups for most of us here and there.

It's not that I generally feel guilty for my preference.
There are literally hundreds of millions of fat people out there - myself included - who lead perfectly normal, healthy lives and have these lives mainly impaired by social and especially medical sigmatization.
Ashblonde highlighted this aspect and I couldn't agree more.

Melian summed the being torn situation up very nicely - and I can fully relate to that.
Because I indeed do not engage in actually harming activity to any BBW or BHM, only cook healthy meals when asked, etc. - and being someone who is horrible at sports but just as bad at sitting still, activity naturally happens.

As dwes wrote - I also strongly believe in personal autonomy and self-responsibility. So every person must deal with their own body and own weight.
Come to think about it - this probably is the original sin made in raising heavier (today this often means of a perfectly normal weight) children. Constant over controlling and setting up rules lets kids never have the chance to learn about what their bodies really want and need, take agency for them. As well as turning food into the coveted, forbidden fruit, that can only be enjoyed in secret - with the consequence of often extremely screwed up eating habits.

And finally the issue of morality pressure on women plays a significant role.

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I think that society may put more pressure on FFA than on FA? To me it feels that there is a traditional expectation (usually unstated) that women form the moral centre of a family or couple. So for FFA there is both a 'how could you be attracted to that?' and a 'how could you permit him to do that?' and I don't think guys get that to the same degree. I'll let the FFA comment further if they want.
And Angel shared her experiences from the FA/BBW perspective.

Because if I want to nail it down, what I almost exclusively feel guilty for - like in the described incident - is finding fat struggles sexy.
Like the bouncing belly that refuses to be belted, the straining buttons, how fat can't be squeezed far enough to bend down or fit in.
It's just the thrill of abundance winning.

In contrast, one of the first rules you learn - as a female even more so than a guy - is not to take pleasure from other people's suffering or defeats.

So in essence it's the dilemma of my preference not meeting the desired moral norm.
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Old 10-24-2017, 06:05 PM   #42
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I feel guilty because my guy has gained about 20-30 pounds in the eight months that we have been together, and he really isn't into weight gain. He knows the I love his body, and he accepts the weight gain, but he doesn't want to gain more. I feel guilty because I would love for him to get bigger. He weighs around 230/240 and is 6'4" tall.
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:38 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by agouderia View Post
This has been increasingly rummaging through my mind, that there mostly likely only is health up to a certain size - and that those of us to take pleasure in extremer size might contribute to harming or enabling self-harm of others.
Not a new observation or doubt, but one which for me has been blaring pretty loudly of late.
I do think that people of a certain size will have difficulty achieving good health; especially those who can no longer get around on their own. However, the claims that FAs and FFAs cause some kind of harm by expressing their feelings of attraction or delight to very big people, or encourage them to harm themselves, rest on several very large and unjustified assumptions.

1. First, they rest on the assumption that fat people, once encouraged, will continue growing to an unhealthy degree. In most cases, this is not true.

2. Secondly, they rest on the assumption that appreciated fat people are more likely to get fatter than unappreciated ones. This also is questionable, considering that yo-yo dieting has been responsible for the waistlines of many fat people. Often, it's the futile attempts to lose weight that drive things into "health problem" territory.

3. Third, they rest on the assumption that the weight itself, and not other factors, is the sole cause of the person's poor health. Overall health is determined by a wide range of factors, including nutritional choices, frequency of exercise, amount of sleep and stress, as well as, of course, actual disease.

4. Fourthly, they rest on the assumption that fat people, who are unloved, will be more motivated to lose the weight and "become healthy." In many cases, this is untrue, and fat people just become more reclusive as a result of abuse, harming both them and their appreciators.

5. Finally, they rest on the assumption that weight loss falls within the power of the fat person, and will produce good health if the person succeeds in it. Neither of these is proven to be true, and the overall failure of the massive, multi-billion-dollar weight loss industry proves it.

Honestly, I'm convinced that it's the stress of struggling to lose weight, more than the weight itself, that contributes to most health problems usually blamed on "obesity," (though the overabundance of refined sugar in the modern diet, and the large number of sedentary occupations in the modern world also don't help matters any.)
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Old 11-04-2017, 02:46 PM   #44
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Overall health is always at the back of my mind. I think thatís where the ďguiltĒ comes in. I could never partake in making someone unhealthy. And yet, Iíve seen first hand how a person of a much larger size has smoked me on the treadmill at the gym.

For me, contrast is attractive - luv hairy men but rip any & EVERYWHERE I have it out. Total foodie but canít eat a lot & cant cook ... pretty good at baking, though. 😈 Intelligence, drive & sense of humor are the only exceptions. Yet again, thereís also this weird part of me who would like to just take care of a guyís needs 24/7. ĎItís a conundrum ...
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:16 AM   #45
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Wow, I come back and a guilt thread is up. I used to write about this quite a lot around here. I used to feel guilty, but now I don't. I credit being able to work through all of that as the reason I eventually found a wonderful man, who I have been with for 5 years now. I would say that for myself, Melian (still love you) and agouderia have pretty much expressed my personal feelings on the matter. But I wanted to address the issue of feeling creepy. I don't want to speak for Anjula, but I think I get what she's saying, or at the very least, have felt things similar to what she expressed.

It's not about narcissism, or feeling like fat people have no control of their lives. It's about the actual sexuality of the F/FA. It's about how we feel about our own desires and arousals. I know health is a touchy topic, so I'll bring it down a notch for my example. I happen to get aroused by men popping buttons off clothes that don't fit well. I don't know why, it just gets me. Having said that, I am also intellectually aware that, for the man in question, it might be embarrassing. I don't like that it embarrasses him, but I literally cannot control my body's arousal. I can't. In my head I might be more concerned about his feelings, but I can't change the arousal, it's just a response.

That kind of thing can leave you wondering if there is something innately strange, or even cruel about your sexuality. What does it mean if the things that arouse you embarrass, or frustrate, or are potentially harmful to the person? I don't think there's anything wrong with any F/FA here for any of their desires, and I certainly don't think it's creepy to find SSBHM/SSBBW attractive, but I think if an F/FA hasn't at least had it cross their mind that there is a disconnect sometimes between what arouses us and what is a good experience for the object of arousal, then there might be a problem. You don't have to be mired in guilt, it can just be a passing thought, but I wouldn't trust an F/FA who hadn't at least done a little soul searching on the topic. It just means that they actually see fat people as people and not just sex objects.
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