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Old 10-09-2008, 11:35 AM   #51
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haha right, i know.. i was thinking that there, about how i sometimes say things here that i might not actually say ever.. well i might with my close friends. Its funny that..
I love it that you and your boy have the same dress!!! Brilliant!!!
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:51 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by mergirl View Post
haha right, i know.. i was thinking that there, about how i sometimes say things here that i might not actually say ever.. well i might with my close friends. Its funny that..
I love it that you and your boy have the same dress!!! Brilliant!!!
both from Primark too lol
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:54 AM   #53
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Ditto on it being cool that you have the same dress, and I couldn't help but "Awwww" for him at not wearing it because it looks better on you.

Your post got me thinking, I think some people really want to maintain gender seperations. Either strictly heterosexual, or as was discussed above gay people who want to see a very clear you like men or you like women. I've always felt that those divisions are artificial in a lot of cases....yes guy and gals average different, but on the individual level I'm sure you see more difference within each gender than between them, except in the most blatant physical characteristics.

So yah, I guess I'm just saying besides support for the whole gay/bi bit, also throwing my support behind cross dressers, androgynous people, and so on. It warms the cockles of my heart to see/hear people living their life as they want, whether or not it fits within standard gender roles.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:18 PM   #54
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When i was younger, I got hit on by women more than men...when a couple of girls asked me out any interest in me immediately went up in smoke when I mentionted (in conversations) I liked men.
I had no idea it was against the "rules".

So I never got to have a girl-friend relationship because I also liked men...go figure....
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:00 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by bexylicious View Post
both from Primark too lol
oh bex
its a wee shame for him.. Well at least if hes NOT going to wear a dress it should be a cheap dress he's not wearing!
poor boy. lmao

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Old 10-09-2008, 01:07 PM   #56
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Ditto on it being cool that you have the same dress, and I couldn't help but "Awwww" for him at not wearing it because it looks better on you.

Your post got me thinking, I think some people really want to maintain gender seperations. Either strictly heterosexual, or as was discussed above gay people who want to see a very clear you like men or you like women. I've always felt that those divisions are artificial in a lot of cases....yes guy and gals average different, but on the individual level I'm sure you see more difference within each gender than between them, except in the most blatant physical characteristics.

So yah, I guess I'm just saying besides support for the whole gay/bi bit, also throwing my support behind cross dressers, androgynous people, and so on. It warms the cockles of my heart to see/hear people living their life as they want, whether or not it fits within standard gender roles.
Bravo. indeed! i need to start repping more than just the same 10 peeps so i can rep you again..
i am all for the fluidity of sexuality (ahem) and i try hard not to lable my sexuality unless it is called for.. but i hold all rights to change my mind at any point. I also totally know actual male lesbians.. not just guys who have a lesbian fantasy.. but guys who i consider fully paid up members of the lesbian club! Sexuality is all about exploration and adventures and its a shame that so many people feel caged in when it comes to definitions.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:28 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by edx View Post
Ditto on it being cool that you have the same dress, and I couldn't help but "Awwww" for him at not wearing it because it looks better on you.

Your post got me thinking, I think some people really want to maintain gender seperations. Either strictly heterosexual, or as was discussed above gay people who want to see a very clear you like men or you like women. I've always felt that those divisions are artificial in a lot of cases....yes guy and gals average different, but on the individual level I'm sure you see more difference within each gender than between them, except in the most blatant physical characteristics.

So yah, I guess I'm just saying besides support for the whole gay/bi bit, also throwing my support behind cross dressers, androgynous people, and so on. It warms the cockles of my heart to see/hear people living their life as they want, whether or not it fits within standard gender roles.
Yes -- my partner and several of my friends dress in men's clothing alot of the time. I also have a trans best friend; and just being out and about its very hard for her. She doesn't mind when people call her Sir, but can you imagine the stares she recieves when she goes to use public restrooms. Its a huge problem and not just for her. Gender neutral bathrooms should really be commonplace.

As for strapons -- I've never used on (it's never been my thing), but have had them used on me and really liked it.

http://mytulip.com/harnesses-and_-ac...harness/detail - the size large fits hips up to 56''.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:38 PM   #58
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I am around alot of people of color that identify as gay/les/bi/trans and specifically, one thing that is always looked down on, especially in the black lesbian community is masculine women dating/having sex with, other masculine women. Some even go as far to say that's "gay" or "fag shit" -- I don't know if anyone else has heard of this or not but it bothers me. If it makes any sense, I can understand black folks being a tad traditional (even ones who live an alternative lifestyle), so maybe the whole gender role thing really skeeves people out. One of my friends dislikes it (she's a masculine woman, committed to a femme) and says her thing is..."who would f*ck who?"

Has anyone else come up on these types of feelings? I know from what BBSSBBW was saying there is alot of turning up of noses at bi women -- but I don't just think its from lesbians. Another friend of mine is bi and she says people take her sexuality as a joke; that she can't possibly like men and women and if she does...she's greedy. People don't see bisexuality as being a valid orientation...
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:55 PM   #59
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I am around alot of people of color that identify as gay/les/bi/trans and specifically, one thing that is always looked down on, especially in the black lesbian community is masculine women dating/having sex with, other masculine women. Some even go as far to say that's "gay" or "fag shit" -- I don't know if anyone else has heard of this or not but it bothers me. If it makes any sense, I can understand black folks being a tad traditional (even ones who live an alternative lifestyle), so maybe the whole gender role thing really skeeves people out. One of my friends dislikes it (she's a masculine woman, committed to a femme) and says her thing is..."who would f*ck who?"

Has anyone else come up on these types of feelings? I know from what BBSSBBW was saying there is alot of turning up of noses at bi women -- but I don't just think its from lesbians. Another friend of mine is bi and she says people take her sexuality as a joke; that she can't possibly like men and women and if she does...she's greedy. People don't see bisexuality as being a valid orientation...
hmm..its amazing how gender identity and sexuality mingle so and that there are so many constraints placed on these terms by society or by the individual.
I dont identify as "butch" or "femme". When i was younger i played around with these roles though, i guess to find something i was comfortable in; i used to wear a suit to school, i had a skinhead, mohawk, big boots etc.. I remember being called "son" a lot when i was younger. I wouldnt really ever "Butch up" except for in a roleplay situation as its not my normal attire. My girlfriend would REALLY be classed as a "femme" Because of what she wears, the way she acts, her obsession with hair products etc..lol.. Though do these terms "butch" and "femme" really have much relivence in todays queer comunity? or are they just the last crumbling reminants of a type of "identification" and labling system from the past? Maby Butch and Femme are sexualities within themselves. I think its strange that your friend said "who would fuck who?" Because i have always thought in a certain way that power lies in the feminine whether that is in a hetro couple or in a gay relationship. I suppose what i mean to say is that Feminine girls can fuck just as good as butches.
Now that i think about it.. its very rare i have seen two really butch women together. I have seen two women i KNEW were lesbians because of their hair cuts/clothes etc. but they have not been like BUTCH butch..
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Old 10-09-2008, 03:26 PM   #60
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Ooooh GREAT thread, AFG! You are so getting rep rep reppity rep rep for this in a minute!

Personally, I identify as a pansexual fatty girl! I usually describe myself as bi when asked, but tend not to think of myself as anything...I'm a big believer in the sexuality is fluid thing, and don't tend to analyse who I'm attracted to. I've "properly" dated more men (4) than women (2) but that's just the way it's panned out - I can see myself settling down with anyone. I don't mind my women soft and curvy, but i tend to like my men average-skinny. However, I'm fascinated by androgny and find it uber-hot, and I'd love to date a transboi (ftm). Dont tend to discuss this much, as in my experience most people find it weird (plus its not the kinda thing that usually comes up in conversation!). Unfortunately hot FTM FAs aren't easily found in Southern England! At least I haven't found one yet - if anyone knows any send 'em my way!

Also, I too agree with BBSSBBW & think the bisexuals get a rough deal! In my experience, a lot of guys think it's hot but don't take it seriously, and a lot of gay women think you're just out for an experiment and will "go back to" men eventually. This really frustrates me! When i was trying to figure out my sexuality and started mentioning my lady-love side to a few people, I really began to wish i was either straight or gay. Cant help being attracted to both! Frankly, these girls who get drunk and kiss other girls for attention are giving us all a bad name! And I don't think Katy Perry's helping either! Lol!

On a side note, I'd like to think everyone could integrate on this one board rather than have a separate LGBTQ board.
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Old 10-09-2008, 04:05 PM   #61
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Queer is my favorite umbrella term for anything that's not straight
I usually identify as queer.

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Originally Posted by thatgirl08 View Post
I don't really know what to call myself. I suppose bisexual would be the best term..although I truly believe sexuality is more complicated and fluid, and can't be described in a single word or phrase. At times in my life, I lean more strongly towards either girls or guys, but overall, I feel myself attracted to both.
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Old 10-09-2008, 04:07 PM   #62
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late to the party as usual, but I totally support this thread. I'm bisexual and a lover of the fat ladies.
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:20 PM   #63
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I've questioned my own sexuality, at times. Though I predominantly see myself as romantically attracted to men, physically I can become aroused by women (I've read that this is common among "straight" women). And there have been times that I've flirted with lesbians at clubs and found myself really drawn to them, wanted to kiss them and take it further...but nothing ever progressed from those encounters. Does this make me gay? Bi-curious? I don't know. My sense is that human sexuality is so much more fluid and varied than people seem to want to accept, even those whose sexuality is decidedly outside of traditionally-accepted gender roles, as evidenced by several of the comments in this thread. I'm glad that I can acknowledge this desire without too much angst, unlike virtually every straight man I know and probably a lot of straight women, too.
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:53 PM   #64
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hmm..its amazing how gender identity and sexuality mingle so and that there are so many constraints placed on these terms by society or by the individual.
I dont identify as "butch" or "femme". When i was younger i played around with these roles though, i guess to find something i was comfortable in; i used to wear a suit to school, i had a skinhead, mohawk, big boots etc.. I remember being called "son" a lot when i was younger. I wouldnt really ever "Butch up" except for in a roleplay situation as its not my normal attire. My girlfriend would REALLY be classed as a "femme" Because of what she wears, the way she acts, her obsession with hair products etc..lol.. Though do these terms "butch" and "femme" really have much relivence in todays queer comunity? or are they just the last crumbling reminants of a type of "identification" and labling system from the past? Maby Butch and Femme are sexualities within themselves. I think its strange that your friend said "who would fuck who?" Because i have always thought in a certain way that power lies in the feminine whether that is in a hetro couple or in a gay relationship. I suppose what i mean to say is that Feminine girls can fuck just as good as butches.
Now that i think about it.. its very rare i have seen two really butch women together. I have seen two women i KNEW were lesbians because of their hair cuts/clothes etc. but they have not been like BUTCH butch..
See, but that's why I think there might be subtle differences; atleast for the butches/femmes/whathaveyous of color that I'm around. Those and other labels have relevance...and those who are exclusively "no label" consider it a label unto itself. This whole issue of race/sexuality/gender all interconnects and maybe that's why some of my friends think the way they do.

I know my experience as a black woman and lesbian isn't the same as a lesbian who isn't of color...that's why I pointed out the difference I'd notice and wanted to get feedback on whether or not that type of thinking was popular in the lesbian community at large or if it might just be limited to my experience with other black lesbians.

I do agree that most times the power lies in the feminine; I've never had any complaints.
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:12 PM   #65
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Yay! This thread is long overdue! Count this bi fatty in!
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:30 PM   #66
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*notes that I must flirt with asshley in future*


There've been so many things posted today that I nodded to emphatically or that made me think I don't even know where to start.

I really hear you BBSSBBW, and I accept you in the queer family.

Ash, I don't think this is only a lesbians of color thing, but do support that it's related to the intersectionality of it all. I'd just add that in the white lesbian community, I've felt it was a generational difference (again, these are ALL generations). Since the younger folks have adopted "queer", in majority white circles there's at least some question of gender roles. For example, all the white lesbian couples in my circle are not in traditional gender roles in the bed room. It's a total switch situation and they bristle if anyone were to dare ask who's the man in the bed, or who does the fucking, I mean, they both do! This is how I identify (again in the mystical world where I'd meet a girl to wrestle with sexual roles with!). However, we've ALL gotten a tremendous amount of pressure from the larger lesbian community that there's a WAY to be a 'good' lesbian - you're either butch and you fuck or you're femme and you take it. I know I'm being crude, but it's easier this way.
I think this continues to be something the entire lesbian community is dealing with. I know I've felt it going out and about - I really don't want to meet a woman that will uphold my gender role the way a man would. NOT saying I don't love butch women - oh god oh god. I encourage all good butch women to get fucked too, if they want it. The if they want it is the key part.

Okay, I just said fuck too many times.
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:45 PM   #67
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Yes -- my partner and several of my friends dress in men's clothing alot of the time. I also have a trans best friend; and just being out and about its very hard for her. She doesn't mind when people call her Sir, but can you imagine the stares she recieves when she goes to use public restrooms. Its a huge problem and not just for her. Gender neutral bathrooms should really be commonplace.

As for strapons -- I've never used on (it's never been my thing), but have had them used on me and really liked it.

http://mytulip.com/harnesses-and_-ac...harness/detail - the size large fits hips up to 56''.
Sweet Cross dressers, of either gender, drive me crazy. Gosh, I like me some cross dressing.

As it happens, I saw a young guy wearing a skirt today. I live in a fairly conservative city, so it struck me as doubly daring. I wanted to give him a compliment, but I got so excited and was so surprised that I just kind of got out a "Gah!" He sort of looked back and I felt like he may have thought I was making fun of him. I don't know.

But, god, he looked great. It's just good to know that it can happen--people crossing gender lines that way. Sweet.
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:54 PM   #68
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Sweet Cross dressers, of either gender, drive me crazy. Gosh, I like me some cross dressing.

As it happens, I saw a young guy wearing a skirt today. I live in a fairly conservative city, so it struck me as doubly daring. I wanted to give him a compliment, but I got so excited and was so surprised that I just kind of got out a "Gah!" He sort of looked back and I felt like he may have thought I was making fun of him. I don't know.

But, god, he looked great. It's just good to know that it can happen--people crossing gender lines that way. Sweet.
Now anytime I meet a crossdresser, which happened a lot when I was working in the sex shop, I always make sure to make time for them.

George has told me how it feels to have a GG (genuine girl) interested and helpful, and how much it meant to him when he "came out" to me and I didn't freak.
So if I can make a crossdresser feel good and accepted by smiling or chatting, I always do.


Also a funny point about terms. George really hates being called a tranny or a transvestite as it conjurs up too many stereotypes for him. The stereotypical tranny in a bad wig and baggy stockings, with full beard and pink lipstick lol. Also I think it stems from him being called a tranny at school for having long hair, but obviously deep down he knew he liked to dress, so it cut him deep.

I want to get him to join in here!! But he's too shy he says lol.

However he is reading....
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:55 PM   #69
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I just want to say that I too have felt my fair share of biphobia and it's been one of the things really holding me back from fully coming out because to my surprise..when I did start coming out, I got worse reactions from people in the gay community, where I expected to feel supported, than I did from the straight community.

A lot of people here seem to view being bisexual as more of a fad than an actual orientation.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:13 PM   #70
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A lot of people here seem to view being bisexual as more of a fad than an actual orientation.
Here, here? Girl, I'm staunch about bisexuality, its existence, and the need for the gay community to support and bring up bi folks. At the same time, we have to be ready to stand with the larger gay community and not be too busy for the movement 'cause we got a date with our boyfriends, ya know? Both sides have some growin' to do.

I really do hope you keep comin' out. I know this sounds so stupid, but I have this anthology written by bisexuals and I read it about once a year to remind myself that *I* exist and others have come before.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:16 PM   #71
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Here, here? Girl, I'm staunch about bisexuality, its existence, and the need for the gay community to support and bring up bi folks. At the same time, we have to be ready to stand with the larger gay community and not be too busy for the movement 'cause we got a date with our boyfriends, ya know? Both sides have some growin' to do.

I really do hope you keep comin' out. I know this sounds so stupid, but I have this anthology written by bisexuals and I read it about once a year to remind myself that *I* exist and others have come before.
Oh, sorry, I meant here as in where I live as in Rochester, NY.

What's the name of the anthology? I'd like to read it.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:21 PM   #72
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I agree with you. In my past life I met women who were involved with other women because they thought it was the thing to do or because their man wanted them to. That has NEVER been my way. From the time I was around 12 I found myself VERY interested and attracted to women. Sadly, it took me till I was 23 to accept it. When I finally did accept it and knew that being bi/gay didn't mean I would go right to hell (I grew up in a catholic household so being gay was a sin) coming out was the most liberating experience of my life. When I met my husband I told him just like the fact that I am fat, the fact that I wear glasses I am bi. It is who I am deep inside and nothing can ever change that.

Early in the journey to self acceptance I thought my attraction to women was purely sexual but soon after my 1st experience I realized that it went way beyond the bedroom. I learned that I truly could fall in love with a man or women. For me its not about gender its about a connection.

Finding Dims helped me truly accept my fat, I hope this thread will help other GLBTQ people truly accept who they are.

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I just want to say that I too have felt my fair share of biphobia and it's been one of the things really holding me back from fully coming out because to my surprise..when I did start coming out, I got worse reactions from people in the gay community, where I expected to feel supported, than I did from the straight community.

A lot of people here seem to view being bisexual as more of a fad than an actual orientation.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:29 PM   #73
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Oh, I gotcha, thatgirl!

So, the anthology is Bi Any Other Name: Bisexual People Speak Out. It's old, and all personal stories, but that's exactly why I love it. It's folks who were strong and bold in a time that was much worse than now to be "bi", and they're serious about the "movement," too.

I also have a weightier book that looks at bisexuality throughout literature, history, and popular culture. It's Bisexuality and the Eroticism of Everyday Life. I've never finished the whole thing, so I don't have a good sense of its overall thrust, but I enjoyed the initial research about all the dirty bisexuals (or at least those that had sex with all genders) throughout literature.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:31 PM   #74
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Im the B in GLBTQ

Ive only been in relationships with men (actually, only one) but Ive been sexually with girls and guys and I love both.

I always thought that "limiting" myself to one sex or the other was stupid. Im going to fall in love with a person. Not a penis or a vagina.
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Old 10-09-2008, 07:33 PM   #75
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Oh, I gotcha, thatgirl!

So, the anthology is Bi Any Other Name: Bisexual People Speak Out. It's old, and all personal stories, but that's exactly why I love it. It's folks who were strong and bold in a time that was much worse than now to be "bi", and they're serious about the "movement," too.

I also have a weightier book that looks at bisexuality throughout literature, history, and popular culture. It's Bisexuality and the Eroticism of Everyday Life. I've never finished the whole thing, so I don't have a good sense of its overall thrust, but I enjoyed the initial research about all the dirty bisexuals (or at least those that had sex with all genders) throughout literature.
Thanks so much AFG! I'll check them both out.
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