Dimensions Forums  
Home Register Premium Membership Stories Ye Olde Library Health Issues Market Place Big Fashion

Go Back   Dimensions Forums > Discussion > GLBTQ



Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-23-2009, 09:35 PM   #1
FreeThinker
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upper Canada
Posts: 4,380
FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.
Default Pronoun Etiquette with Transgendered People

Recently, I was watching a video of a song by a woman.

That woman has since transitioned to a man (hope I'm using the term correctly).

Obviously, were I to meet this person now, I should address him as a male.

But, when talking about the song, is it 'her' song, or is it 'his' song?

Having a hard time with this because:
  • The song is currently owned by him
  • At the time, the song was created by her

    but

  • At the time, despite being in a female-appearing body, "her" true self-image was male...or was it?


So...what's the proper stance?
FreeThinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 11:07 PM   #2
t3h_n00b
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 271
t3h_n00b knows EXACTLY what's going ont3h_n00b knows EXACTLY what's going ont3h_n00b knows EXACTLY what's going ont3h_n00b knows EXACTLY what's going ont3h_n00b knows EXACTLY what's going ont3h_n00b knows EXACTLY what's going ont3h_n00b knows EXACTLY what's going on
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeThinker View Post
Recently, I was watching a video of a song by a woman.

That woman has since transitioned to a man (hope I'm using the term correctly).

Obviously, were I to meet this person now, I should address him as a male.

But, when talking about the song, is it 'her' song, or is it 'his' song?

Having a hard time with this because:
  • The song is currently owned by him
  • At the time, the song was created by her

    but

  • At the time, despite being in a female-appearing body, "her" true self-image was male...or was it?


So...what's the proper stance?
gender neutral pronouns

she/he: zhe
him/her: hir

they had us learn them in orientation week for college. Never know when you might need them.
t3h_n00b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 03:57 AM   #3
butch
cuddly, hairy, and fat
 
butch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: among the bamboo thickets
Posts: 2,329
butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.butch has ascended what used to be the highest level.
Default

If the singer in question is who I think you're talking about, then don't they still have the same name? With that in mind, it makes me think you could just use the male pronoun, if you don't want to use the gender neutral ones.

The fact that the name stayed the same suggests to me that they felt like their name always was a good representation of their gender, and if that gender is now male, then they must have felt fairly masculine even when identifying as a woman (and singing about a teenage girl ).

At least, this is how I think it would be, it may make sense to no one but me.
__________________
Have you seen my nip on the internet?
butch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 05:14 AM   #4
mergirl
 
mergirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 6,927
mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!
Default

their song.

Also, the song was always created by 'him' because even before he changed physically that is how he identified mentally. ie when i meet pre=op m to f trans people i always call them she/her.
__________________
We must learn that to passively accept an unjust system is to cooperate with that system, thereby to become a participant in its evil. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Last edited by mergirl; 03-24-2009 at 05:17 AM.
mergirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 07:27 AM   #5
Cors
Delurking
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,763
Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!Cors keeps pushing the rep limit!
Default

I would call it his song for the same reason as Butch. Transitioning is a process that often takes years. More likely than not, said person has probably always been gender dysphoric and we should recognise their true gender.
Cors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 05:12 PM   #6
FreeThinker
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upper Canada
Posts: 4,380
FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.
Default

Okay, so if I don't use gender-neutral language, I should go with the pronoun that describes the person post-transition, even if referring to events/accomplishments before that.

Good to know. Thank you.



But now, another thought comes to mind:

When watching the video I mentioned, or when listening to recordings or viewing photos made pre-transition, who am I seeing and hearing?



The reason I ask is that photos and recordings only capture the image and the sound of a person, and using those criteria, the images and sounds are of the pre-transition physicality of said person.

In other words, I'd be seeing her perform his song (although stating it in such a manner seems cumbersome and a bit absurd), as the singing would be representative of the physical manifestation of the singer at the time the recording was made...right?

Kind of like looking at a baby picture of myself: I'm the same person as the the one in the picture, but just not an infant anymore...although that doesn't mean the picture is not one of an infant.

Or am I just not getting it?



By the way, butch was correct: The video in question is The Sweater, by Meryn Cadell.

Sorry I'm unable to rep you again so soon.

For those curious, the album was released in 1991, and Meryn "came out" as a man (as the article phrases it) in 2004.
FreeThinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 06:49 PM   #7
Tracii
 
Tracii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Commonwealth of Ky
Posts: 3,256
Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
Default

What ever gender they are presenting is what I would call that person.
Tracii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 07:03 PM   #8
Oirish
The Dude
 
Oirish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 950
Oirish knows EXACTLY what's going onOirish knows EXACTLY what's going onOirish knows EXACTLY what's going onOirish knows EXACTLY what's going onOirish knows EXACTLY what's going onOirish knows EXACTLY what's going onOirish knows EXACTLY what's going on
Default

I've definitely had an awkward moment or two with such issues. Mostly because I've been a little unsure of the proper etiquette or because I'm unsure of the individuals personal preference. I was working in a restaurant where a couple used to come in semi-regularly. One was an average looking man. His partner was a cross-dresser (forgive me if that is not an acceptable term) that had not undergone any transgender operations. To be honest, the individual was in no way convincing since there was usually a bit of stubble present. I used to always address the couple together as "folks" to avoid offending them or sounding like an insensitive ass. I slipped once though! I accidentally said "sir" once. The response was incredibly gracious. All that was said was "not sir, call me Jaime." I still couldn't help feel like an ass.
Oirish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 07:48 PM   #9
Tracii
 
Tracii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Commonwealth of Ky
Posts: 3,256
Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
Default

Well some don't stive to "pass" they just dress the way that makes them feel good.Nothing wrong with that.I think you handled it just fine.
Just being "open and accepting"" to TG people is all they want nothing more.
Tracii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 07:49 PM   #10
Fascinita
Jeez, we're blessed!
 
Fascinita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,162
Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.Fascinita has ascended what used to be the highest level.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeThinker View Post
In other words, I'd be seeing her perform his song
You'd be seeing him singing his song. The same way that if we looked at a video of you twenty years ago, we'd recognize that image as representing you now--you'd look younger and we'd be able to see some kind of transformation has happened in your appearance, but you'd still be you. "She" doesn't exist anymore. What you're seeing is the "he" in an earlier form. The song was written by him (the person who exists now); it's owned by him (the person who exists now); it was performed by him (the person who exists now).

Of course, he may tell you that he prefers otherwise.
__________________
......................
|:| Sponsor a puppy or kitten. |:|
Fascinita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 08:15 PM   #11
Ample Pie
Fattitude Problem
 
Ample Pie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cincinnasty
Posts: 2,532
Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!Ample Pie keeps pushing the rep limit!
Default

When I find myself in such situations, I just ask. I guess it's rude, but the truth is it's sometimes quite impossible to see someone's gender.

also, my mom LOVES Meryn Cadell.
__________________
Ample Pie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 08:42 PM   #12
sowhat
Contains no MSG
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 160
sowhat can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokessowhat can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokes
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebecca View Post
When I find myself in such situations, I just ask. I guess it's rude, but the truth is it's sometimes quite impossible to see someone's gender.

also, my mom LOVES Meryn Cadell.
I generally let the pronouns slide because I know who respects me and just makes a slip up, and who does it to hurt. Like in most situations in life, it's all about respect.

BTW - I would use the pronoun of the person's current presentation.
sowhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 09:03 PM   #13
FreeThinker
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upper Canada
Posts: 4,380
FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fascinita View Post
The song was written by him (the person who exists now); it's owned by him (the person who exists now); it was performed by him (the person who exists now).
Got it.

The person that exists now is the person that wrote, sang, and owns the song.

The image, however (photographic or sonic), is of the person who existed then.

People change, but a static record of a person cannot.

A picture of a caterpillar that has since become a butterfly is still a picture of a caterpillar.

Granted, unlike a gender dysphoric (thanks, Cors! ) person identifying himself as a man while in a woman's body, a caterpillar remains a caterpillar until it wraps itself in a cocoon for its metamorphosis, and (presumably) doesn't identify itself as a butterfly until it looks like one, but the caterpillar does carry within its being the makings of a butterfly.

Put another way, there is a picture of my mother taken when she was two months pregnant with me. It's a close-up of her face. Does that make it a picture of me as well as of her?


Hmm...Did that make sense? Probably not...



Anyway, I guess what I'm putting out there is that perhaps an old picture of (in this case) Meryn Cadell as a woman is not so much a picture of Meryn Cadell as a woman, but more a picture of a moment in time when he had the physical characteristics of a woman.



(By the way, Rebecca, I'd have to echo your mother in her admiration of Meryn's songwriting. )
FreeThinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 09:31 PM   #14
FreeThinker
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upper Canada
Posts: 4,380
FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.FreeThinker has ascended what used to be the highest level.
Default

A little off-topic here, but somewhat related.


It seems that pronouns (or identifiers) are to be applied retroactively, but is this always the case?


For instance, what about Michelle Duff? Having retired from motorcycle racing in 1969, Mike Duff, father of two children, began the transition to becoming a woman in 1984, completing the process with surgery in Belgium in 1987.




Should she be considered one of the best female motorcycle racers of all-time?

If not, why not?

Is a picture of Mike Duff racing in 1966 a picture of a man or a woman?

When Michelle's son and daughter think of their father as a man, are they wrong to do so?



It might seem that retroactivity does not always apply.

What determines when it does or when it doesn't?
FreeThinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2009, 03:18 AM   #15
mergirl
 
mergirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 6,927
mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeThinker View Post
A little off-topic here, but somewhat related.


It seems that pronouns (or identifiers) are to be applied retroactively, but is this always the case?


For instance, what about Michelle Duff? Having retired from motorcycle racing in 1969, Mike Duff, father of two children, began the transition to becoming a woman in 1984, completing the process with surgery in Belgium in 1987.




Should she be considered one of the best female motorcycle racers of all-time?

If not, why not?

Is a picture of Mike Duff racing in 1966 a picture of a man or a woman?

When Michelle's son and daughter think of their father as a man, are they wrong to do so?



It might seem that retroactivity does not always apply.

What determines when it does or when it doesn't?
Thats a really interesting question. I would have to asume that there are stringent rules in place in sporting events which state that you must be of a perticular genetic 'sex' at the time you compete, no matter which gender you are identified.
You cannot say she was the best 'female' motercyclist because at the time she competed as a genetic 'male' and in sport rules are rules.
This is totally different from a singer songwriter, because when i write songs, play gigs or record music i dont get asked to give a D.N.A swab so they can check i'm a woman..it just doesnt matter how i gender identify.
Males and Females perform better in different sports 'generally' physically so they have this rule. I know what you mean though, why should it be different. Because in one instance we are talking about gender identity, which can be fluid and in the other we are talking about a persons sex, which although athstetically can be changed, genetically cannot.
__________________
We must learn that to passively accept an unjust system is to cooperate with that system, thereby to become a participant in its evil. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
mergirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2009, 04:25 PM   #16
SparklingBBW
What's new pussycat?
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 471
SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!SparklingBBW has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
Default

This is reminding me of the pregnant man scenario. He's a legal man (and of course a man in his soul/heart/identity but he is still a biological woman (with a woman's reproductive organs and genetic information to pass along to the babies. His female biology is making it possible for him to bear a child, but because of his identity, he feels like the father and not the mother (the role his wife feels of course).

The realities here are very exciting (I'm so happy for that couple) but we don't really have the language to describe what is going on here, and unfortunately, it is our archaic language and definitions which can inadvertently hurt someone's feelings in these cases. It is going to take society a while to "catch up" with this new-found reality. Unfortunately, some people just can't totally wrap their heads around these new ideas.

I remember going around and around with my mom when explaining the reproductive process of my lesbian friends. Once the baby girl was born, she (and the rest of the world) didn't quite have the right words to describe both mothers in this case because traditionally it was always a mother-father parenting situation not a mother-mother or father-father situation. She kept saying but Ann is the real mother (cause she gave birth), well no mom, they are both the real mothers to this child...etc...etc. She never did quite get it. But she never meant to be hurtful or disrespectful, she just didn't know quite how to describe what was going on.

In all the confusion, it's sometimes hard to get nay-sayers to understand the core of this, Zoe has two mommies, and as someone who has lost her mommy, I would give anything to have a spare these days <grin>! She's a lucky girl!

.
SparklingBBW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 02:42 PM   #17
Tracii
 
Tracii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Commonwealth of Ky
Posts: 3,256
Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
Default

It can be very confusing indeed.
Tracii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 02:49 PM   #18
Weeze
Justin Bieber of Dims
 
Weeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: wouldn't YOU like to know..
Posts: 2,046
Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Weeze has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
Default

I usually just go with whatever anyone else is doing. When I met Amy (an ex who's still a very good friend), I wasn't sure what to do, but then I noticed everyone else referring to her as a her and just went with it

We've been out and people have called her a him and it's not a big deal, she either lets it go, or smiles and corrects them if she thinks the person is open-minded enough to take it.
__________________
Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
Weeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 03:53 PM   #19
BigBeautifulMe
That was a heart.
 
BigBeautifulMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia as of January 2014!
Posts: 7,503
BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.
Default

Free - maybe it will be helpful to think of it this way:

Him and her - he and she - these are not representative of a physical SEX, but rather a gender. People who are gender dysphoric may change their physical sex at some point, but often the way they perceive their own gender does not change. (Meaning, if I was born a woman but have always felt like a man, even if I have SRS and actually become a man, I still feel like a man - the way I perceive my gender hasn't changed). This isn't hard and fast, though. Gender, like sexuality, can be fluid, IMHO.

But yeah - if you think of those words as representative of gender rather than sex, you can see how an MTF person would always be referred to as "her" regardless of her physical sex.
__________________
"I am a size 0 if you multiply my current size by 0." - liz (di-va)

"I just think your culinary choices could use more death of sentient creatures. Is that so wrong?" - Mini

-Rosebud- I am imagining how lovely it would be to see your golden hair rising up over my belly when you are between my thighs
-Rosebud- Like a cunnilingus sunrise
BigBeautifulMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 04:22 PM   #20
Tracii
 
Tracii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Commonwealth of Ky
Posts: 3,256
Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
Default

BBM thats it in a nutshell.Well stated.
Tracii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 06:59 AM   #21
goofy girl
took a sharp left turn
 
goofy girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Providence
Posts: 4,216
goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!goofy girl keeps pushing the rep limit!
Default

BBMe, what a great explanation, and a good way of looking at it!
__________________
Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart. - Confucius
goofy girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 09:23 AM   #22
BigBeautifulMe
That was a heart.
 
BigBeautifulMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia as of January 2014!
Posts: 7,503
BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.BigBeautifulMe has ascended what used to be the highest level.
Default

I was fortunate enough to go to a college where the transgendered population was very vocal and visible. I count many among my friends still. When I was an RA, we had training, and part of that training was pronoun usage with transgendered people. I loved my college for that. Then I loved them again when they started incorporating anti-sizeism workshops as part of RA training because of the anti-sizeism group I helped found and chaired my senior year there!

ETA: Another very important point RA training taught us: If you're not absolutely which pronoun to use with someone you know is transgendered - ASK! This generally comes across as a respectful question, and is generally appreciated. This is just my experience on the other side of things, though - I'm not transgendered myself, so I can't speak for anyone who is.
__________________
"I am a size 0 if you multiply my current size by 0." - liz (di-va)

"I just think your culinary choices could use more death of sentient creatures. Is that so wrong?" - Mini

-Rosebud- I am imagining how lovely it would be to see your golden hair rising up over my belly when you are between my thighs
-Rosebud- Like a cunnilingus sunrise

Last edited by BigBeautifulMe; 03-29-2009 at 09:26 AM.
BigBeautifulMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 09:52 AM   #23
Littleghost
Oh, Frickenstein.
 
Littleghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Lou
Posts: 983
Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Littleghost has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
Default

I've always been curious about how these lines of thinking would apply to transvestites. My first thought is of course that it would be their own personal preference, but what if you hadn't the opportunity to ask? Would the pronoun stay the same regardless or would it be more polite to change with the clothing identity? I remember a documentary about a man who preferred to be called Sissy, short for Melissa possibly, and pretty much dressed as a woman all the time. But I can't remember a whole lot more.
__________________
The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. The test of a first rate wallpaper is to wipe clean easily when the previous fails.
Littleghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2009, 10:39 AM   #24
Tracii
 
Tracii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Commonwealth of Ky
Posts: 3,256
Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!Tracii has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
Default

How ever the TG person is dressed is how I address them if I don't know them personaly.
Tracii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 06:50 AM   #25
mergirl
 
mergirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 6,927
mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!mergirl keeps pushing the rep limit!
Default

oh god. That reminds me.. i was at a gay club a while ago and i was so bored and a saw a large group of transvestites one was waving at me and i went over and one said i looked bored.. i was like "oh totally..i'd much rather hang out with you guys" I actually didnt mean 'guys' like men..i ment it like a collective Noun. They went a bit mental then were ok with me once they realised i really didnt mean it. I had such a fun night.. cept for one 'gal' who kept poking me and saying i needed to go to the gym! lol.. She looked like anna nichol smith but less hazy and with an edge.. i had a wonderful night. They said i had to go back on wednesdays cause that was their night out.. i never did.. but i would like to see them again.
I actually wondered too if there is ever any anomosity between trangendered people and transvestites especially on the gay/trans scene?.
__________________
We must learn that to passively accept an unjust system is to cooperate with that system, thereby to become a participant in its evil. -Martin Luther King, Jr.
mergirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:29 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright Dimensions Magazine. All rights reserved worldwide.