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Old 04-03-2009, 12:09 PM   #26
Holly-Marie
 
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Lightbulb how I would like to be adressed in that situation

I'm post OP-M2F TS.

personally I want to be adressed as female even with things I did or produced in the past. It was still me and that just because I was not brave enough or sure enough of myself yet to show the girl in me to the outside it was still me and that me has always been female as far as I'm concerned.

Personally I also would feel offended if things were refereed to as "hir" or such things. I'm female no matter what my body used to be.
However there are people (some intersexuals for example) who do identify as inbetween the genders and sexes or as none at all. In that case or if you are not sure just ask. No one will hold it against you.

It shows you are aware of the problems and want to be respectful. If you know how the person identifies itself than address and refer to be that gender.

We are aware (or should be) that it is not always easy to deal with us so if we can sense it was not meant to harm we will not hold a slip against you the first few times.

In the case you describe it would be his/him/he.

Hope that helps.

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Old 04-03-2009, 11:36 PM   #27
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During transition I think is the hardest when people just aren't sure what gender you are and they will slip and say the wrong thing.Not on purpose mind you they are just confused.
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Old 04-06-2009, 04:57 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii View Post
During transition I think is the hardest when people just aren't sure what gender you are and they will slip and say the wrong thing.Not on purpose mind you they are just confused.
I think it must take a lot of patience at times, especially as you have had to go through so much mentally and psysically during your transition. I would think most decent people are just confused as what to say though. Do you think it would be offensive if i was chatting to someone who's gender was ambiguous and i asked them if they would prefer if i adressed them as he or she? I never really know if i should or not and end up skirting around the issue or chatting using gender neutral language.
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:07 PM   #29
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Default Be in the Know

I've had some interesting experiences with this subject before. I just waited til now to share them!

Okay so first, I dated a transwoman for a short period of time. That person actually had an identity that was not so clear-cut. In fact, she identified as MTX - aka gender neutral. But transitioned to womanhood, if that makes sense. Even post-transition (which was in progress when I met her/hir), she didn't look like a woman, she looked more like a man...but in public preferred and insisted on folks calling her "she". I don't know if she was trying to mind-fuck people or simply trying to blend in. But we went out to eat at a restaurant one time and had a teenage girl wait on us...she called her/hir "sir" and the other party at our table (a bio-woman, who was this transwoman's primary partner - obviously this was a poly situation), said, "that's MAM!" I think the teenage waitress was confused, but she got it after that.

Here's one more story, maybe a little silly, but pertinent. When I was at Goddard College in my mid-twenties, a very good friend of mine was transitioning. Now mind you, she was still very much on the male side of the whole experience. To a person who didn't know her, she had the presence of a gay man. But she wasn't. She was pre-transition, but starting to break everyone in and trying to get them used to using female pronouns. At the time, she had no plans to change her male name. Why don't we just say her name was Paul. I had gotten used to knowing this person as "Paul", and was surprised to learn that she was trans.

I remember one time Paul, another friend and I were inebriated and went into the computer lab to do our study plans for the semester. I was talking with our other friend and I remember using male pronouns for Paul. I felt so bad, embarrassed, and apologized a million times. But it was more funny for all of us than it was insulting, because obviously I wasn't intending to screw up like that. My friend (not Paul) assured me that she had made that mistake in the past too...

The next semester, Paul was no more, and there was a new, very hot chick on campus named, we'll just say Kate. Kate had started the course of treatment and grew boobies; essentially was going through puberty right before our eyes and in the course of a few weeks went from a person who looked like a male, to a person who was very much a femme-identified, sexy-ass woman. She described her experience to us and I thought it was very interesting.

Actually, I was really lucky to have gone to Goddard College, because they were very, very open about trans issues, and even fat issues. They let me study fat acceptance (among other things). That counted as science credit, believe it or not. That's beside the point.

When I first went to college as a young 18-year old, closeted queer, uncomfortable fattie, I met a stealth MTF. She was my first experience with a transperson in general, and it was quite the learning experience. And by that I mean - the fact that it was 1996 first of all, and second, there were a lot of bigoted assholes on campus who were racist and transphobic. This woman happened to be latina, but openly jewish and a stealth transwoman. In all the time she and I spent together (as girlfriends - not as lovers just as chicks who did chick things together), she never, not ever, outed herself to me. She was much more put-together and femme than I was. Her clothes, shoes, makeup, were all perfect. I remember one time I snuck a peak at her driver's license when she went to the bathroom, and maybe that was betraying her confidence, but i wanted to know - who was this woman really. It didn't matter to me that her driver's license had a picture of a male, with a male name and gender that said male. She was always a female to me and I never treated her differently than I wanted to be treated. I always respected her because she was a great friend who was there for me on some of the worst days I experienced. Then, suddenly, she left. I never heard from her again. I did hear from mutual friends, one of whom was very fooled and didn't realize this woman was trans. She and I had a conversation and she was so upset that this woman was A. trans and stealth and B. thought this woman was hitting on her when she was CLEARLY straight - she and I used to talk about the dudes we had crushes on. SO yeah, she was my crash course in transpeople - that they actually exist and deal with (awful) discrimination.

My real education on trans issues happened when I was at Goddard, and I still keep in touch with many of my trans friends from there to this day. My eyes opened to the fact that gender is not some rigid binary standard - gender can be fluid and people aren't necessarily what they appear to be on the outside.

And can I just say, that I trans fats? That's something I picked up from NOLOSE!
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:17 PM   #30
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Default Gender Neutral

Another little bit of information: While at Goddard, I had the pleasure of attending a workshop that my friend (mentioned above) "Kate" put on called "Trans 101". All kinds of people came out of the woodwork for that one. A lot of people who were uneducated about the issue said, "Wow, I had no idea that you're trans" to folks who were living in stealth - and those people opened up about being trans even though there were occasionally people who didn't understand transgender issues at all. The workshop was enlightening to a lot of people, even to me. We talked about pronouns, privelege, etc.

One person, male-bodied, seemingly straight, stood up and came out as trans - gender neutral, at this workshop. So while you would, in a normal situation lets say, call this person, "he", "him", etc, actually, this person prefered pronouns like Ze or Hir. I met another person who was female-bodied but appeared very masculine. This person prefered to be called "shim" but only to friends. I think it was more of a joke but this person said that s/he was born in the wrong body/gender and didn't mind whether or not s/he was called he, she, or anything in between. That person hurt me btw, cuz I had a crush on hir, but apparently she wasn't digging the fat chick vibe. She acted more like a teenage boy and I was an adult female, so we didn't mesh well anyway.

I believe that it is all up to the person's preference, and you can NEVER EVER make assumptions about any person. Is there etiquette around pronouns? OF course. I don't think it is rude to ask a person what they prefer to be called if they are open with you about their (trans) gender. If they aren't, and you think they are trans, that person could be stealth and may not even want to talk to you about being trans.

So what is the proper way of addressing any particular person? I say, just be polite, use your instincts, and do your best not to offend. And I probably wouldn't bring up trans issues with somebody unless they bring it up first.

My two cents, speaking from experience. And I'm not trans, just an ally and lover and friend.
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:48 PM   #31
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personally...if you look like a chick, you're a she to me, or a guy, a he...i guess i dont see sex for the most part. If you present as a female i call you ma'am or a male i call you sir
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:53 PM   #32
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definitely when you are around trans, you just act calmly. i know men, who are biologically born male and who identify as male but want to use the feminine pronouns. basically its whatever gender you choose to represent yourself or which one you resonate with most regardless of your physical biological attributes. my ex.. looked like a very androgenous younger guy, though born a woman, i guess, didn't ever relate to that life, therefore i guess it's natural for me to call people in the mode that they want to represent in.

most trans know that not everyone is going to catch onto this. that's part of something called awareness. sometimes there is transitioning that involves gender change, and sometimes people get sex changes. either way... it's what you feel you are, that counts.
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:07 PM   #33
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i find its just easiest to call everyone "bitches".

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