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Old 04-17-2009, 07:18 PM   #1
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Default Political Cartoon about gay marriage

http://www.freep.com/article/2009040.../Gay+marriage+

I read the Detroit Free Press almost everyday on my lunch break (or at work when my managers aren't watching). Mike Thompson is one of the political cartoonists for the Free Press. All of his cartoons are pretty funny, but this one on gay marriage that appeared in last Thursday's edition of the paper, is particularly amusing and relevant.
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:49 PM   #2
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That's a great cartoon. Straight people certainly trivialize it a lot more because it's never been denied to us.

Being from MA, though, I saw the first gay divorces and wondered why everyone was surprised. The cartoonist is spot-on that denying it to people IS just petty and vindictive...even though it sure doesn't solve everything as straights have continued to discover.
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:45 AM   #3
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Great cartoon. it's been added to my blog
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:01 AM   #4
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personally i really dont see anything really wrong with gay marriage being legalized since if you really think about it there are ALOT of worse things that could be legalized like incest marriage (or the act being in a incest relationship with a blood relative) and Zoophilia/beastiality (which ironically thats legal in some states). at least gay couple are between 2 consenting adults and cant reproduce (in comparison to the 2 taboo things i meantioned) so i really dont see any thing wrong.

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Old 05-19-2009, 06:58 AM   #5
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Animals can have babies with humans?!!
I always find its best NOT to mention Homosexuality in the same breath as incest and beastiality.
Shall i say more?
No, i shall leave it at that!
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:14 AM   #6
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Animals can have babies with humans?!!
I always find its best NOT to mention Homosexuality in the same breath as incest and beastiality.
Shall i say more?
No, i shall leave it at that!
i mentioned them together by what society considers as taboo. im not saying they are remotly the same thing which they are not. the only thing these 3 have in common is that they are some what taboo subjects. also when i said " at least gay couple are between 2 consenting adults and cant reproduce" well the part that says "between 2 consenting adults" was in contrast to Zoophilia (animals cant consent) and the part where i said "cant reproduce" was for in contrast to incest ( same sex couples cant reproduce so there is no genitics based issues with children BUT with incest couples there are since they can reproduce and issues could arise from it).

why do i have the feeling someone may try to play the devils advocate with one or both of those 2 subjects?

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Old 05-19-2009, 07:30 AM   #7
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yeah, sometimes when words are clumsy they can be misunderstood and misinterpreted. Thanks for clarifying.
You know though, apparently it IS possible, by genetic engineering to make a gamete from two females or two males, its just that no one has done it yet.
I was actually confused about the 'at least they cant reproduce' bit..were you implying that gay people shouldn't reproduce? If it was possible i mean.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:06 AM   #8
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yeah, sometimes when words are clumsy they can be misunderstood and misinterpreted. Thanks for clarifying.
You know though, apparently it IS possible, by genetic engineering to make a gamete from two females or two males, its just that no one has done it yet.
I was actually confused about the 'at least they cant reproduce' bit..were you implying that gay people shouldn't reproduce? If it was possible i mean.
i cant say they shouldnt because they already cant. unless science screws around with DNA ,genes , and whatever else and figures out out to give one gender the reproductive abilities of the opposite gender but then that would be bad if that was ever discovered and made possible.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:13 AM   #9
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Here is a quote from a site i dont really like.
"Is "same-sex conception" real?
Yes, researchers are working on methods using genetically engineered stem cells to produce sperm from a woman and eggs from a man. They have already created a mouse named Kaguya in 2004 that has two mothers and no father. Scientists created her in Japan in 2004, combining one mouse's egg with another mouse's genetically modified egg. No sperm was used."

I actually read about this in an article in the Independent newspaper recently. They interviewed a leading geneticist and he said it was entirely possible to create a gamete by taking cells from two people of the same sex.
I dont think this is a bad thing as there are plenty of other ways genetic engineering has helped people/will help people. Why not help gay people have babies that have the genetic information of both parents?
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:24 AM   #10
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Here is a quote from a site i dont really like.
"Is "same-sex conception" real?
Yes, researchers are working on methods using genetically engineered stem cells to produce sperm from a woman and eggs from a man. They have already created a mouse named Kaguya in 2004 that has two mothers and no father. Scientists created her in Japan in 2004, combining one mouse's egg with another mouse's genetically modified egg. No sperm was used."

I actually read about this in an article in the Independent newspaper recently. They interviewed a leading geneticist and he said it was entirely possible to create a gamete by taking cells from two people of the same sex.
I dont think this is a bad thing as there are plenty of other ways genetic engineering has helped people/will help people. Why not help gay people have babies that have the genetic information of both parents?
i think its bad because this has a "playing god" kind of feeling.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:36 AM   #11
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i think its bad because this has a "playing god" kind of feeling.
right. What about heart surgery? Stem cell recearch that could cure moter neuron deseases? Cancer research? Research into creating crops that will grow in areas people are starving? All the other things that if we didnt research would never become a reality. If we didnt advance scientifically then we would still be stuck in the dark ages. To quote 'The man with two brains' "You are playing god!!" .."Well somebody has to!!"
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:39 AM   #12
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right. What about heart surgery? Stem cell recearch that could cure moter neuron deseases? Cancer research? Research into creating crops that will grow in areas people are starving? All the other things that if we didnt research would never become a reality. If we didnt advance scientifically then we would still be stuck in the dark ages. To quote 'The man with two brains' "You are playing god!!" .."Well somebody has to!!"
those i dont have a issue with. modifying humans to cure diseases and saving lives is one thing but changing the reproduction thing is another.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:44 AM   #13
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those i dont have a issue with. modifying humans to cure diseases and saving lives is one thing but changing the reproduction thing is another.
Why?
......
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:09 AM   #14
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Why?
......
Because it would cause a depression. If a viable embryo could be constructed from two ova, it would make males obsolete. And without males, there would be no further reason for for e-mails offering penis enlargement or non-prescription Viagra. Since these two industries represent approximately 97% of America's Gross National Product (based on a random sampling of my e-mail), their loss would cause the entire U.S. economy to implode, with world-wide repercussions. It would also have adverse effects on the producers of guns, pickup trucks, chewing tobacco, and beer.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:34 AM   #15
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Because it would cause a depression. If a viable embryo could be constructed from two ova, it would make males obsolete. And without males, there would be no further reason for for e-mails offering penis enlargement or non-prescription Viagra. Since these two industries represent approximately 97% of America's Gross National Product (based on a random sampling of my e-mail), their loss would cause the entire U.S. economy to implode, with world-wide repercussions. It would also have adverse effects on the producers of guns, pickup trucks, chewing tobacco, and beer.
Ahh ok.. fair enough.
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:10 PM   #16
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Hmm, how does reproductive technology that helps queers reproduce differ from reproductive technology that helps infertile straight couples reproduce (Octomom, anyone?)? Both 'play god' to help people who otherwise can't reproduce 'naturally' have children.
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:51 PM   #17
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Hmm, how does reproductive technology that helps queers reproduce differ from reproductive technology that helps infertile straight couples reproduce (Octomom, anyone?)? Both 'play god' to help people who otherwise can't reproduce 'naturally' have children.
one case is a physical issue and one is a issue of making something happen thats not supposed to be done at all. its almost like screwing around with nature which scientist does enough of.
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:57 PM   #18
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one case is a physical issue and one is a issue of making something happen thats not supposed to be done at all. its almost like screwing around with nature which scientist does enough of.
If other animals can reproduce without two different genders without the aid of science (and there are plenty that can), who's to say that as evolution continues, humans won't one day be able to do the same? Perhaps science is just part of that 'natural' evolution. 'Natural' is a poor and illogical excuse in this scenario.

You can't just pick and choose the science you'll use without qualms, unless you are indeed placing a moral judgement on it, and when you do, your excluding of gay reproduction is casting a moral judgement on gay people's lives. Just own up to it.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:04 PM   #19
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If other animals can reproduce without two different genders without the aid of science (and there are plenty that can), who's to say that as evolution continues, humans won't one day be able to do the same? Perhaps science is just part of that 'natural' evolution. 'Natural' is a poor and illogical excuse in this scenario.

You can't just pick and choose the science you'll use without qualms, unless you are indeed placing a moral judgement on it, and when you do, your excluding of gay reproduction is casting a moral judgement on gay people's lives. Just own up to it.
but then thats evolution which would happen automatically with time by nature it self. if a scientist does it than thats more like a mutation. and if humans were to evolve to a point where same sex could reproduce than there pratically wouldnt be a need for 2 different genders. heck a that point it might as well be one gender (mono-gendered). hell for all we know humans could one day evolve to a point of asexual reproduction. and im not placing any moral judgement but you kinda have to think is it ethical for humans to start modifying what we didnt create? but then i guess it comes with the territory of free will.

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Old 05-19-2009, 03:16 PM   #20
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but then thats evolution which would happen automatically with time by nature it self. if a scientist does it than thats more like a mutation. and if humans were to evolve to a point where same sex could reproduce than there pratically wouldnt be a need for 2 different genders. heck a that point it might as well be one gender (mono-gendered). hell for all we know humans could one day evolve to a point of asexual reproduction.
It isn't that hard to argue that the human body is only designed to live for no more than 4 decades, and yet thanks to science, we've doubled that, at least, in a real short time. There's no reason to think that evolution and science don't go hand in hand, and so how do we parse out what life extending or life producing practices are connected to evolution and thus 'natural', and what ones are just 'playing with god'? We can't, and we're not 'playing god' by using our god-given brains to improve the human race as a whole. Funny, too, that genetic changes in our species that are considered good get classified as 'evolution,' and things we classify as 'bad' become mutations. Mutations and genetic adaptability are pretty much the same thing.
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:20 PM   #21
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If other animals can reproduce without two different genders without the aid of science (and there are plenty that can), who's to say that as evolution continues, humans won't one day be able to do the same? Perhaps science is just part of that 'natural' evolution. 'Natural' is a poor and illogical excuse in this scenario.

You can't just pick and choose the science you'll use without qualms, unless you are indeed placing a moral judgement on it, and when you do, your excluding of gay reproduction is casting a moral judgement on gay people's lives. Just own up to it.
I find it funny that you say this when you have a Panda as an avatar.
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:06 PM   #22
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I find it funny that you say this when you have a Panda as an avatar.
True.

That species would most likely be thisclose to extinction if it weren't for reproductive technology.
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:38 PM   #23
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one case is a physical issue and one is a issue of making something happen thats not supposed to be done at all. its almost like screwing around with nature which scientist does enough of.
Both are 'physical issues.' Also, who is to say that the straight infertile couple is "supposed" to have kids.. maybe they aren't.. maybe that's why they're infertile.

Can't pick and choose.
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:07 AM   #24
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Both are 'physical issues.' Also, who is to say that the straight infertile couple is "supposed" to have kids.. maybe they aren't.. maybe that's why they're infertile.

Can't pick and choose.
well there is always the option to adopt which we have tons of kids in this country that dont have parents.
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:11 AM   #25
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well there is always the option to adopt which we have tons of kids in this country that dont have parents.
So would you be okay with gay couples adopting?
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