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Old 11-12-2005, 12:39 PM   #1
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Default Interesting Idea...an "Obese Subculture"??

Waaaay back in the late 1960's there was a fascinating article, in Avant Garde magazine, about the emergence of an "Obese Subculture", which was loosely defined as a set of people who enjoy being hugely fat and even enhancing that fat through purposeful overeating. This was really before the whole "feeder/feedee and gainer/encourager" thing happened, which makes it doubly interesting...wish I still had a copy of it! LOL The idea though, is...are WE that obese subculture? How has this whole experience evolved over the last 35 years? It really does stretch back at least that far. By the time I wrote my article "The Disciples of Flesh" for Apocalypse Culture, back in the mid-80's, there was already a burgeoning zamisdat of really underground magazines, mostly xeroxed or hand done and a network of folks gaining weight, linked by telephone or hushed whispers down dark alleys. Food for thought, eh!
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Old 11-12-2005, 02:16 PM   #2
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Yeah. We're a subculture, all right.

Cool. That means we're also "underground" and can wear berets and sunglasses and snap our fingers instead of clapping.
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Old 11-12-2005, 03:21 PM   #3
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And who knows? In a few years this subculture will become the mainstream. Which means guys like me will have more women to choose from. Umm. Umm. Umm. :-)
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Old 11-12-2005, 05:11 PM   #4
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Default Like, totally solid, man!

It's been a kinda' Jack Kerouac afternoon over here in Frisco..candles in old wine bottles, bongos on the board and poetry all over....."Do the one about the pony, man!"



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Yeah. We're a subculture, all right.

Cool. That means we're also "underground" and can wear berets and sunglasses and snap our fingers instead of clapping.
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Old 11-12-2005, 05:27 PM   #5
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There seems to be quite alot of goth BBW's and FA's here, so would that be a sub-subculture?
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Old 11-12-2005, 05:43 PM   #6
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Default That would be a sub-subculture....oh yaaaas!

....and the coolest, because the Romantics and Decadents of the 19th Century who spawned it were generally neurasthenic tubercular anorechics who valued the bone over the flesh. Going fat for a Goth is a truly political statement, which is why Curvy Em and Black Heart of Prussia have my infinite respect! Oooh..Vivica and......the list goes on! Clive Barker has had a few such characters over the years...Leroy from Nightbreed stands out as about the coolest fat Gothic figure in cinema! My own artistic work with the Dark Sweet New Obscure Style of the Roman Catholic decadence stands absolutely in this vein...the Lovecraft mythos has also had some outer gods and servitors, such as Y'golonac, who were obese...this is rich, fertile and fat territory for exploration! Thanks for bringing it up!

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There seems to be quite alot of goth BBW's and FA's here, so would that be a sub-subculture?
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Old 11-12-2005, 06:04 PM   #7
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I really love Lovecraft, he is one of my fave authors, and Nightbreed one of my fave films.

It's like the grotesque, becomes the truly beautiful.

My all time favorite Artist is Heironymus Bosch, a man before his time.
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Old 11-12-2005, 06:14 PM   #8
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Obesus have you ever seen a film called Society, where the rich feed on the poor.
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Old 11-12-2005, 06:24 PM   #9
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Cool You mean this one?

...the one by Brian Yuzna of "Re-Animator" fame? No, but I just ordered it from Amazon! It sounds verrry cool....! Have you ever seen "La Grand Bouffe"? Up there with "SEVEN" as the most nihilistic films in history! Kewl!
Oh...both feature overeating, obesity and other on-topic things! Nifty!
I like things that give us a really fringe view of the mainstream...that is where the insights are!

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Old 11-13-2005, 05:46 AM   #10
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....and the coolest, because the Romantics and Decadents of the 19th Century who spawned it were generally neurasthenic tubercular anorechics who valued the bone over the flesh. Going fat for a Goth is a truly political statement,
I just came back from a goth club where I picked up the phone number a really sultry and sultry goth BBW. Often times it seems that goth chicks only come in two sizes; waif and BBW. It seems that those two body types can best put off the goth look.

By the way, Apocalypse Culture is one of my favotie books of all time. I was disappointed that Obsesus wasn't asked to write a follow-up to "Disciples of Flesh" in the second volume.

I'm actually really fascinated by the roots of feederism and how the scene really started. As a journalist I tend to research things that catch my interest. It would be great if there was a book that accuratly studies our sub-culture. Deviant Desires was great, but there was so much that was left out.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:57 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Obesus
It's been a kinda' Jack Kerouac afternoon over here in Frisco..candles in old wine bottles, bongos on the board and poetry all over....."Do the one about the pony, man!"
I now have a sudden urge to get hopped up on peyote, head to Mexico City with a girlfriend, and then shoot her in a drug-fueled crime spree. Then write a novel about drug addiction set in New York and North Africa.

No idea where the urge came from, but now it's passed...
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Old 11-13-2005, 01:12 PM   #12
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I haven't seen, "La Grand Bouffe", but I loved Seven.

I will keep an eye out for it.

I think society won't accept fat people because we are the ultimate fear, the thing that they dread most within themselves.

Our ability to change our bodies to the very extreme. We become our desires we show our indulgence.

Our bodies a testament to our liberation; forsaking the control of diets and unfulfilment.

Our refusal to be ashamed for choosing freedom from restriction.

When we are X amount overweight we are treated like we are less than human. Only when we lose that X amount of weight are we taken back into the fold. We are then treated like hero's, we have killed the beast and are paraded around, (put in magazines, given makeovers, T.V. slots ETC....).

The world has gone mad!
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Old 11-13-2005, 03:06 PM   #13
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Talking Bingo!

The Social Root Meme is Control with a big ol' capital "C"...it has been the obsession of the West since the Greeks and maybe further back...fat folks are the archetype of being "out of control" and therefore actually dangerous to society...the only problem is that the other great social root meme: Consumerism, also has a big ol' capital "C"...and a lot of fat people are not consciously aware of their bodies...only the corporate need to stuff themselves with food and consume anything not nailed down...the truly consciously "FAT" are political and social rebels at a basic level, because they have chosen the path of chaos...the path of the Goddess Eris...Ataraxia...are you feeling better? This is something worth much exploration and writing....oh....did I mention that I am a writer of conspiracy theory! LOL You hit the nail on the head..thanks!

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I think society won't accept fat people because we are the ultimate fear, the thing that they dread most within themselves.

Our ability to change our bodies to the very extreme. We become our desires we show our indulgence.

Our bodies a testament to our liberation; forsaking the control of diets and unfulfilment.

Our refusal to be ashamed for choosing freedom from restriction.
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Old 11-13-2005, 03:12 PM   #14
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Cool Thanks for the compliment!

There is a longer book version of the "Disciples of Flesh" in the works...which makes sense because that article and a couple of my other ones were pirated in Amsterdam when ApoCult first came out...there must be a market! LOL Fat Goth is just a fascinating phenomenon and one worth much study, because it bucks two trends at once...I think it might come up in my current cultural study of Youth Rebellion and Postmodernist art...who knows, but a section on the Goth invasion of Disneyland will certainly be in there! LOL
There actually was a second version of "The Disciples of Flesh"...in the second edition (not volume) of ApoCult...it was called "Surgeons and Gluttons in the House of Flesh," and delved into extreme body modification in many directions...hey, it was described as "classic American screed" by the San Jose Mercury! ROFL I will definitely do a book-length study of the Obese Subculture in many of its developments...it just needs to be done, eh? Thanks for your insightful and interesting comments! Someday we should compare notes!

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I just came back from a goth club where I picked up the phone number a really sultry and sultry goth BBW. Often times it seems that goth chicks only come in two sizes; waif and BBW. It seems that those two body types can best put off the goth look.

By the way, Apocalypse Culture is one of my favotie books of all time. I was disappointed that Obsesus wasn't asked to write a follow-up to "Disciples of Flesh" in the second volume.

I'm actually really fascinated by the roots of feederism and how the scene really started. As a journalist I tend to research things that catch my interest. It would be great if there was a book that accuratly studies our sub-culture. Deviant Desires was great, but there was so much that was left out.
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Old 11-13-2005, 03:59 PM   #15
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I have noticed when alot of BBW's and SSBW's become accepting of their bodies, they want to show their bodies to the world.

Being made to feel unattractive by society for so long, it's a further rebellion in a way.

Just by looking through the profiles more often than not there are provocative pictures.

I have found this over and over again whilst finding a fat acceptance forum to belong to.

I am still at the stage in my development where having my photo taken in any way is hard for me.

I think it is amazing to see a fat woman promoting herself as a sexual being, I'm just amazed by the degree of women who are taking that route.

There is a market there for sure.

I'm finding it hard to put into words what I mean. I'm just trying to see if there is a connection and this is becoming another subculture in it's own right.

Where here on the Net we can be models and adored by men and women alike and people take notice of what we say.

When the pc is off and we are out and about town we are constantly reminded that the world does not see us in that way.

We are encouraged to keep covered from head to toe and to deny any personal progress we have discovered about our selves.

To live a split life.
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Old 11-13-2005, 05:00 PM   #16
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i love the idea of a subculture, however i find that i become so comfortable with this little world that i forget how hurtful the outside world is.
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Old 11-13-2005, 08:13 PM   #17
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Lightbulb The existential split......

The "schiz" as Gilles Delauze and Felix Guattari define it in "Antioedipus" and "A Thousand Plateaus", is the essential tool of social control in the West. By not being able to experience what it is to be whole...to be unable to see the whole of one's life, but only pieces of it mirrored in media images which reproduce themselves like DNA, is an excellent way to keep large numbers of people in a docile position. For fat people, there are splits on top of the larger splits that usually define us...ridicule, derision;a positively medieval sense of a morality of denial and self-denigration...these are powerful tools which cut us at the point of the root social matrix. Back when the Industrial and Modernist age was just in it's infancy...sowewhere in the late 18th and early 19th Centuries, fat people were the subject of "curiousity", displayed like prize sheep at county fairs and later, circus sideshows. Their "freak" status made sure that they were not only powerless, but the object of particular ridicule and scorn. As the days of the sideshow ended and mass media began its' earnest rise, talk-shows replaced the sideshows of old. Feigning concern for their victims, they actually held them up to more superficial and demeaning scrutiny than ever before. The ritualistic abuse of the fat by the diet industry and medicine is covered well in Thomas Szasz "Ceremonial Chemistry", one of the most important books on being fat, that is rarely quoted in books about fat empowerment. The process of empowerment begins at the individual level, but builds out to a small community..a subculture, which acts as a life preserver for those who cling to it for validation. This little life-preserver here at Dimensions has surprising power for those who come here, because in community, there is a challenge to the "schiz"...the deep cut that lies at the heart of the control complex. Whew...sounds like a thesis and I telescoped a huge amount of material, but I think it offers some insight into why when folks come here, they are more than anxious to share their stories and self-images and desires....there is such a deep need , such a powerful adversary in mass media and medical "science" and not too many places to feel safe about sharing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vix
I have noticed when alot of BBW's and SSBW's become accepting of their bodies, they want to show their bodies to the world.

Being made to feel unattractive by society for so long, it's a further rebellion in a way.

Just by looking through the profiles more often than not there are provocative pictures.

I have found this over and over again whilst finding a fat acceptance forum to belong to.

I am still at the stage in my development where having my photo taken in any way is hard for me.

I think it is amazing to see a fat woman promoting herself as a sexual being, I'm just amazed by the degree of women who are taking that route.

There is a market there for sure.

I'm finding it hard to put into words what I mean. I'm just trying to see if there is a connection and this is becoming another subculture in it's own right.

Where here on the Net we can be models and adored by men and women alike and people take notice of what we say.

When the pc is off and we are out and about town we are constantly reminded that the world does not see us in that way.

We are encouraged to keep covered from head to toe and to deny any personal progress we have discovered about our selves.

To live a split life.
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Old 11-13-2005, 08:26 PM   #18
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Smile Good point!

Back in the olden days...and I mean the really olden days...like, about 2.500BC, things were a bit different. There was a culture of Megalith builders...huge stone temples that seem to have been dedicated to the Primoridal Goddess...that understood being fat as a divine state and a reflection of universal fertility and abundance of life. That culture has survivials all around the world, even into the modern age... in North Africa, the Middle East, the Pacific...there is still a basic cultural veneration for obesity and the understanding that being fat is a sacred state...those attitudes are now changing as the mechanized world spreads its' gospel. Where the old "Fat is Sacred" meme has come under the most intense crossfire has been in the Industrialized "First World", which is far more interested in producing "fit" and obedient factory workers and producers and consumers of products than any holistic understanding of life. That model only has room for being fat when it is understood as the result of consumerism run amok..and then it becomes part of Medical science and the social control matrix....another product to sell! That is why it feels like a cold hostile world "out there" in the world outside of Dimensions and our little universe "in here." When there are outbreaks of trollism here, it is a serious matter and people react with especial protection, because this is a "safe" place to be fat...one of the very very few around.

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i love the idea of a subculture, however i find that i become so comfortable with this little world that i forget how hurtful the outside world is.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by fatlane
I now have a sudden urge to get hopped up on peyote, head to Mexico City with a girlfriend, and then shoot her in a drug-fueled crime spree. Then write a novel about drug addiction set in New York and North Africa.

No idea where the urge came from, but now it's passed...

damn it. i was looking forward to reading that.
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Old 11-14-2005, 12:03 AM   #20
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Talking I think.....

That if you read William S. Burroughs' "Junky" you will have an eerily similar work of literature! LOL
Ooooh...that Fatlane is very adept with Neoist appropriation and Psychogeographical cut-ups! Damn!

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damn it. i was looking forward to reading that.
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Old 11-14-2005, 04:12 AM   #21
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That if you read William S. Burroughs' "Junky" you will have an eerily similar work of literature! LOL

but i'd miss out on drug induced rants about the advantages of fat chicks! that's the part i wanted to read!
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:04 PM   #22
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So you want I should be the FA equivalent of William S. Burroughs?

I'll give it a shot... not making any promises, though...
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Old 11-14-2005, 05:31 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Obesus
Back in the olden days...and I mean the really olden days...like, about 2.500BC, things were a bit different. There was a culture of Megalith builders...huge stone temples that seem to have been dedicated to the Primoridal Goddess...that understood being fat as a divine state and a reflection of universal fertility and abundance of life. That culture has survivials all around the world, even into the modern age... in North Africa, the Middle East, the Pacific...there is still a basic cultural veneration for obesity and the understanding that being fat is a sacred state...those attitudes are now changing as the mechanized world spreads its' gospel. Where the old "Fat is Sacred" meme has come under the most intense crossfire has been in the Industrialized "First World", which is far more interested in producing "fit" and obedient factory workers and producers and consumers of products than any holistic understanding of life. That model only has room for being fat when it is understood as the result of consumerism run amok..and then it becomes part of Medical science and the social control matrix....another product to sell! That is why it feels like a cold hostile world "out there" in the world outside of Dimensions and our little universe "in here." When there are outbreaks of trollism here, it is a serious matter and people react with especial protection, because this is a "safe" place to be fat...one of the very very few around.

And as an African-American I can say fat=propsperous and sexy.
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Old 11-14-2005, 05:34 PM   #24
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Control. Control. Control. That is the ridiculous buzzword that seems to reverberate in corporate America's consciousness. How about everyone learning to live in harmony with our bodies, ourselves and each other. Life would be so much simpler that way.

Enough with this so-called war on obesity. Most people are not going to ever be stick-thin. So why not encourage healthy eating habits and exercise?

Also, let's get rid of beauty contests since they only make the losers and the average women at home feel ugly.
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Old 11-14-2005, 05:37 PM   #25
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As God is my witness, don't get me started on beauty pageants.

slowly i turned, step by step, inch by inch....
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