Dimensions Forums  
Home Register Premium Membership Health Issues Market Place Big Fashion
Old 08-03-2006, 02:38 PM   #1
philosobear
Thriving circuitously
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: behind the north wind
Posts: 232
philosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokesphilosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokes
Default Addiction

This is what it's like, I suppose, letting your fantasies out into real life. The possibility of losing control. Because it builds up. At first I just had the private idea of getting fat. And I tried, occasionally, eating until I was completely full, watching a tiny bit of flesh grow around my belly button. But it never lasted long. Thirteen year-olds have no staying power, and in fantasy they are the same. But the feeling was perennial...as surely as I lost interest, so that seed of a thought came back, a warm upwelling behind the rougher, greyer texture of living. Teenage angst exhausted me, and I loved and lost a couple of times, but still this strange little flower kept blooming out of the concrete in the night time of me. What would it be like to be fat? An innocent question, but one that comes with a draught of warmth, that leads me away into dreams and a private world I can call my own.

The nearer you let it get, the harder it is to pull back. I can keep my fantasies going for years on end now, and they start to encroach on the daytime world. I have been eating too much for a year. Slowly I have filled out, thickened and softened, and I have found that not all women see it as a crime. One girl has become very dear to me, and she knows my thoughts. We share them. And that makes it come nearer. She is delicious. She is near to my addiction, creamy and curved and heavier than I had thought possible for a woman so lovely. And you would think that would be enough...but this same little flower simply smells sweeter more light I allow it. It is coming into bloom. But I have things I want to be light and small for. Real life fantasies demand lasting choices. These are what we come to. These are what we come to. And now is the choice, because it has become very hard to pull back.
philosobear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2006, 08:31 PM   #2
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default The Glory....and the fight....

It is all about passion and warfare! It is never the one-way drop into oblivion that people imagine...there is always the social force pulling in the opposite direction...that is, unless there really is a serious mental health problem at the core of it the desire and that cannot always be discounted...after decades of this experience, up down and around, I must say that there is never any clear one-direction answer...always a battle between passion and conformity...two incredibly strong forces...and the art of gaining is about balancing and being conscious of what you are doing...mindfulness is an absolute necessity for to be unconscious and drifting is the quickest road to Hell...
Tim

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosobear
This is what it's like, I suppose, letting your fantasies out into real life. The possibility of losing control. Because it builds up. At first I just had the private idea of getting fat. And I tried, occasionally, eating until I was completely full, watching a tiny bit of flesh grow around my belly button. But it never lasted long. Thirteen year-olds have no staying power, and in fantasy they are the same. But the feeling was perennial...as surely as I lost interest, so that seed of a thought came back, a warm upwelling behind the rougher, greyer texture of living. Teenage angst exhausted me, and I loved and lost a couple of times, but still this strange little flower kept blooming out of the concrete in the night time of me. What would it be like to be fat? An innocent question, but one that comes with a draught of warmth, that leads me away into dreams and a private world I can call my own.

The nearer you let it get, the harder it is to pull back. I can keep my fantasies going for years on end now, and they start to encroach on the daytime world. I have been eating too much for a year. Slowly I have filled out, thickened and softened, and I have found that not all women see it as a crime. One girl has become very dear to me, and she knows my thoughts. We share them. And that makes it come nearer. She is delicious. She is near to my addiction, creamy and curved and heavier than I had thought possible for a woman so lovely. And you would think that would be enough...but this same little flower simply smells sweeter more light I allow it. It is coming into bloom. But I have things I want to be light and small for. Real life fantasies demand lasting choices. These are what we come to. These are what we come to. And now is the choice, because it has become very hard to pull back.
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:

Last edited by Obesus; 08-23-2006 at 08:58 PM.
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2006, 12:50 AM   #3
missaf
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,456
missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!missaf has a ton of rep. Literally. As in over 2000!
Default

When interest becomes passion and passion becomes addiction, you start to run into less functional behaviors in your life. My ex had an incredible issue with OCD, which turned into an addiction to porn, and invariably to any form of sex that added new excitement to his behaviors. It led him to exposure to countless STDs and destroyed our marriage, and his relationship with his kid.

Fantasies and fetishes are one thing, but when they start to rule your life and ruin the good things you have/had, there's an issue within yourself that you need to learn to address.
missaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2006, 08:35 AM   #4
philosobear
Thriving circuitously
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: behind the north wind
Posts: 232
philosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokesphilosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokes
Default

I think my experience of it is probably nearer to yours, Obesus, although the counter pressure is in fact my love of hillwalking, rather than social pressure. I live in a pretty easy-going community that knows me for me, and I quite enjoy the odd silly comment. The weight itself isn't stopping me doing big walks yet, but the chub-rub is getting pretty agonising! This can be staved off for a while with various ointments and potions, but once I'd put on the weight of my current frugal pack, the game would pretty much be up!

And thanks for the warning, Missaf, while I don't think that's really where I am at the moment, it's a story worth hearing. That must have been a bloody awful time for all of you.

Any kind of obsession can make life smaller, and yet somehow I need the intensity that obsessions can generate. This one has been with me for as long as I can remember. The capacity to step aside from one's own mind, observing and taking its currents less seriously is important, as Obesus says.

I'm glad Obesus included the word glory in his title though. It is a rather glorious desire, and managing the relationship between desire and reality is everyone's problem on some level, not just mine!

Thanks for your thoughts folks, they're good to read.

take care!
philosobear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2006, 07:20 PM   #5
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default It is, indeed, a glory one way and pain the other....

I am also a very strong walker...probably at least five miles a down up and down the hills and vales of foggy Frisco, so it is not at all necessary to abstain from lovely and long meditative walks on the gain. As a matter of fact, I think it is a positive necessity for mind, body and spirit....elements often left adrift by tyro gainers. The problem with the thighs does eventually go away...on the old board, we had several threads about the thigh situation...mine are 33" each, so it has been a problem at times....lotions and cotton boxers work for some...for others, silken boxers are the solution...different materials and lotions in combo...but there will be one combo that works for you!
Philosopbear, you do seem to have a good handle on the matter and I think that is the sign of someone who can experience a rich and rewarding experience, both in the erotic and spiritual senses, from the gaining style!

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosobear
I think my experience of it is probably nearer to yours, Obesus, although the counter pressure is in fact my love of hillwalking, rather than social pressure. I live in a pretty easy-going community that knows me for me, and I quite enjoy the odd silly comment. The weight itself isn't stopping me doing big walks yet, but the chub-rub is getting pretty agonising! This can be staved off for a while with various ointments and potions, but once I'd put on the weight of my current frugal pack, the game would pretty much be up!

And thanks for the warning, Missaf, while I don't think that's really where I am at the moment, it's a story worth hearing. That must have been a bloody awful time for all of you.

Any kind of obsession can make life smaller, and yet somehow I need the intensity that obsessions can generate. This one has been with me for as long as I can remember. The capacity to step aside from one's own mind, observing and taking its currents less seriously is important, as Obesus says.

I'm glad Obesus included the word glory in his title though. It is a rather glorious desire, and managing the relationship between desire and reality is everyone's problem on some level, not just mine!

Thanks for your thoughts folks, they're good to read.

take care!
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2006, 12:32 PM   #6
philosobear
Thriving circuitously
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: behind the north wind
Posts: 232
philosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokesphilosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokes
Default cheers dude!

Thanks Tim, I do like to put a wise front on my confusion and madness, as far as possible. It's a lovely thought, and a nice thing to say. Like I've learned to do with relationship descisions that I can't make in one go, I'm just leaving it open, keeping both paths fully in mind, and getting on with the things that it IS time to do someting about...like getting a bit fitter, going further into energy work, moving house for the second time in a month...and so on....

So folks, here's a question that I've come across talking to people in private... I think it links closely with what Missaf was saying...

'fetish and relationship pull in different directions'....is your experience?
philosobear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2006, 01:25 PM   #7
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default Good question with no easy answer...

Relationship is always relationship....built on a wide variety of mental, social, intellectual, spiritual, artistic and sexual preferences...just to name a few. It is one of the most complex things on the planet and it is amazing that it ever works at all, but it does, all the time!

It is not really a matter of fetishism pulling in a "different" direction but the problem I have seen in many folks is that they tend to want to base the relationship on a fetish or particular preference to the exclusion of all those other critical and complex forces...it just doesn't and cant't work. True fetishistic behavior...and we are talking a DSM-IVTR type paraphilia here, is really an impairing condition that does stop people from emotional, intellectual, spiritual and social expression...it is so obsessive and ritualistic that it occupies every square inch of their lives. Within a more normally defined relationship, lots of people play in fetishistic territories when the mood strikes them, but they know when to stop. They still have good social and personal boundaries. Fetishists exist in a fog-land where everything in the universe relates to their fetish, even if in fact, it really doesn't....there are no boundaries left in such an obsessive universe...it is a very difficult judgement call to assess the difference between obsession and boundary-control, even for a professional psychologist, but the bottom line is...does it seriously interefere with your life, or can you put it down when you want and do something entirely different without a hitch? The disappearance of creative and pleasureable activities that used to create satisfaction is a dead give-away that something is wrong. If you no longer find pleasure in those long Sunday walks in the garden or going to an art show and you no longer talk to your friends, then you are probably in some trouble!
So, the answer tends to be very personal..but, as always, if there is fear of falling into an obsessive-fetishistic pattern, professional consultation is absolutely critical. Actually, one of the forces motivating me to enter a Master's program in Addiction psychology is precisely to understand obsessive patterns more clearly...the way our culture is constructed seems to put a lot of people at risk for such behavior...excellent question you put there...I think it needs some focus since it is a perennial question on this Board!

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosobear
Thanks Tim, I do like to put a wise front on my confusion and madness, as far as possible. It's a lovely thought, and a nice thing to say. Like I've learned to do with relationship descisions that I can't make in one go, I'm just leaving it open, keeping both paths fully in mind, and getting on with the things that it IS time to do someting about...like getting a bit fitter, going further into energy work, moving house for the second time in a month...and so on....

So folks, here's a question that I've come across talking to people in private... I think it links closely with what Missaf was saying...

'fetish and relationship pull in different directions'....is your experience?
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:

Last edited by Obesus; 08-06-2006 at 01:29 PM.
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2006, 12:28 PM   #8
philosobear
Thriving circuitously
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: behind the north wind
Posts: 232
philosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokesphilosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokes
Default creative and pleasureable activities

"The disappearance of creative and pleasureable activities that used to create satisfaction is a dead give-away that something is wrong..."

This is the key. Rainer Maria Rilke, in his letters to the aspiring poet Johannes Kappus makes it clear that in life there are some things we have to do, things that while they can be pleasureable are also stern necessities, and that we suffer at the deepest level if we neglect them. Life is short, and knowing where our strongest juices flow from is the last word, when we have to make choices. This is what I am trying to remember.

thanks for taking the trouble to reply so fully.
J.
philosobear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2006, 05:17 AM   #9
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default Ecstasis....

The practice of being able to expand one's consciousness beyond the limitations set by the Black Iron Prison, is strangely and oddly linked to the other kind of expansion, if you think about it...it all goes back to Plato's Spherical Androgyne who expresses the wholeness of life in an unindividuated way...it is our journey to rediscover that wholeness in a higher octave and to spread the ecstasia around the place a bit! Just a hint!

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosobear
"The disappearance of creative and pleasureable activities that used to create satisfaction is a dead give-away that something is wrong..."

This is the key. Rainer Maria Rilke, in his letters to the aspiring poet Johannes Kappus makes it clear that in life there are some things we have to do, things that while they can be pleasureable are also stern necessities, and that we suffer at the deepest level if we neglect them. Life is short, and knowing where our strongest juices flow from is the last word, when we have to make choices. This is what I am trying to remember.

thanks for taking the trouble to reply so fully.
J.
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:

Last edited by Obesus; 08-23-2006 at 08:58 PM.
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2006, 12:52 PM   #10
philosobear
Thriving circuitously
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: behind the north wind
Posts: 232
philosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokesphilosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokes
Default

well, there is a common thread there, isn't there...seeing some some kind of desired other in one's fat self. Whether this amounts to a kind of union, or chasing one's tail, I have yet to satisfy myself...this may be different for different people. Esoterica notwithstanding, the voices have been forcing me to eat pasta, and I'm about four/five meals away from being fatter than ever....c'est la fureur!
philosobear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2006, 08:11 PM   #11
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default The...uhhhhh....voices? Forcing?

Voices of desire and pleasureability, I assume, eh! The forcing part is a tad curious...and I am sure you mean that you are following your inner predilictions...I think I have been working at a mental health clinic too long...those words have too strong a charge for me! Eat on, then!


Quote:
Originally Posted by philosobear
well, there is a common thread there, isn't there...seeing some some kind of desired other in one's fat self. Whether this amounts to a kind of union, or chasing one's tail, I have yet to satisfy myself...this may be different for different people. Esoterica notwithstanding, the voices have been forcing me to eat pasta, and I'm about four/five meals away from being fatter than ever....c'est la fureur!
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2006, 08:53 PM   #12
philosobear
Thriving circuitously
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: behind the north wind
Posts: 232
philosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokesphilosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokes
Default

sorry, that was a joke, a bit of a play with mock seriousness!
philosobear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2006, 08:56 PM   #13
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default Oh gosh....kewl!

I really have been working at the clinic too darn long...I am thinking of taking up professional wrestling! Uhhhhh....maybe professional holy man? Maybe ice-cream taster! Ahhhhhh....that is better!

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosobear
sorry, that was a joke, a bit of a play with mock seriousness!
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2006, 01:13 PM   #14
philosobear
Thriving circuitously
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: behind the north wind
Posts: 232
philosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokesphilosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokes
Default

I reckon you could manage two of the three....let's go through the permutations....


holy man/ice cream taster... dosen't have too much of a ring...something about the kind of comercial consultant vibe that brings up dosen't work well with holy man somehow....

holy man/wrestler...classic...easily...how tough are you?

Wrestler/icecream taster...more believeable than the first, but less dignified than the second...

working at the clinic an tasting icecream might work the best of all....take your samples to work and and earn hard cash while snacking in your breaks...who said the English were cynical?
philosobear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2006, 08:44 PM   #15
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default I am thinking that the Holy Man part...

....definitely predominates and I am right here in the capital of Incredibly Strange Wrestling...San Francisco....and we are awash in ice cream...how about "Fattest Holy Man/Wrestler in Frisco!" The ice cream thing can be a shtick for the shows...although there already is a 290 pound wrestler called the "Snackmaster" who dresses up like a giant hot-dog and eats snacks through the entirety of his bouts! He has two purty girls bringing him shnacks all the time! Hmmmmm...maybe not a bad shtick after all...? His favorite saying: "Could you put some gravy on that?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosobear
I reckon you could manage two of the three....let's go through the permutations....


holy man/ice cream taster... dosen't have too much of a ring...something about the kind of comercial consultant vibe that brings up dosen't work well with holy man somehow....

holy man/wrestler...classic...easily...how tough are you?

Wrestler/icecream taster...more believeable than the first, but less dignified than the second...

working at the clinic an tasting icecream might work the best of all....take your samples to work and and earn hard cash while snacking in your breaks...who said the English were cynical?
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:

Last edited by Obesus; 08-28-2006 at 10:01 PM.
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2006, 10:17 PM   #16
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default El Pollo Diablo!

The Devil's Own Chicken...7'4" 400+ pounds of enraged poultry! Now, that's some kinda' chicken thar

http://www.incrediblystrangewrestling.com/

"It's better than "The Passion of the Christ". but not much better..."
Hi-larious!
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:

Last edited by Obesus; 08-28-2006 at 10:01 PM.
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2006, 06:38 AM   #17
philosobear
Thriving circuitously
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: behind the north wind
Posts: 232
philosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokesphilosobear can now be the recipient of "two cans" jokes
Default

Ok, I clearly reckoned without the west coast of America. Go forth, venerable dude, and wrestle giant chickens in vats of ice cream, stirred periodically by beautiful preistesses!
philosobear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 10:05 PM   #18
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default That sounds just about right!

Roger Wilco and out! Will Do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosobear
Ok, I clearly reckoned without the west coast of America. Go forth, venerable dude, and wrestle giant chickens in vats of ice cream, stirred periodically by beautiful preistesses!
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 10:11 PM   #19
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default Oopsie doozle!

Almost forgot the following Chicken related item:

http://www.poultrygeistmovie.com/muzak/video/

From the new Troma films almost rough-cut masterpiece, "Poultrygeist"

Hey, it features the Troma Fat Guy! Please do not attempt to watch this super extra-spicy music video featuring the theme from "Poultrygeist" as sung by "Calamari Safari" without permission from a serious, thoughtful, responsible and well-adjusted adult and a note from your doctor, since it features gallons of stage blood, dancing kung-fu lesbians and Jihad-orientated zombie chickens! You have been warned! MTV refused to show it on good grounds....it has absolutely no taste whatsover and if they won't show it on MTV...whooo-weeee! Kewl
Ahem!
No, it's not outta' California...it's outta' New Yawk! Go figure!
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:

Last edited by Obesus; 08-29-2006 at 10:19 PM.
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 03:50 PM   #20
Zackariah
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 34
Zackariah can now change their title
Default

While I may have jumped in here a little late for serious comment, nonetheless I thought this a wonderful opportunity to summarize a bit of philosophy I've found relevant in regards to the gaining lifestyle.

The point that I would most like to make, is that desire and contentment are very different forces. Very often, particularly in our consumer driven society in America, people make the mistake of thinking that the satisfaction of desire leads to contentment. I would suggest that this thinking is very much in error. Instead, desire leads to more desire. Passion is not something to be sated, but rather a path that has little regard for destination.

Consider the following excerpt from the Roger Ames and David Hall translation of the recently discovered bamboo text version of the Dao De Jing, ostensibly by Lao Tzu:

"With the least modicum of wit,
The only things we have to fear in traveling the grand thoroughfare (dao)
Are the turn-offs.
The grand thoroughfare is perfectly level and straight
Yet people have a great fondness for mountain trails."

The trick, I suspect, is that without the occasional mountain trail excursion, we lose our motivation to travel onward down the grand thoroughfare. Desire is not something to be suppressed, or forbidden; however, in all things, moderation.

In other words, the path to contentment involves, at some point, the cessation of desire, or at least its mitigation. In reality, most of us play a balancing game between states of desire and contentment. I suspect the key is to remember the greater framework, to realize that even when one does practice some self indulgence, that indulgence itself must also be kept in moderation, for the health of one's mind and body.

Speaking metaphorically, perhaps we all have a fondness for mountain trails, but none of us desire to be lost in the mountains. Dull as the grand thoroughfare may sometimes seem, we depend on it.
Zackariah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2006, 06:07 AM   #21
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default Balance is groovy and all...

...and moderation is marvelous, but somehow I am not feeling the passion and grandeur; the sheer temptation, abandon, lust and reprieve in the Lao Tzu approach with the gaining thing. Gluttony has strong historical roots as one of the Seven Deadly Sins in the Roman Catholicism of the Middle Ages and it is from that cultural context that it gets its "kick" as something forbidden and outside the boundaries of social discourse. Sado-Masochism, which is the origin point of the idea of Erotic Weightgain (The Marquis De Sade is the first person to mention the idea in "Justine") further kicks it into the realm of the forbidden. A better metaphor for the gaining life seems to me to lie in the "Sturm and Drang" of Romanticism...momentarily touching arcane and forbidden pleasures and passions of the flesh, only to feel the depressive, remorseful and overwhelming tug of social pressure and the realities of the body in a dialectical cycle. I think Delauze and Guattari's concept of the "Body Without Organs" also comes in strong play here and explains the addictive and even schizoaffective quality of an experience that is always in search of the perfect fullness, yet which always winds up empty. It is an experience born out of conflicting opposites. If it was as easy as just putting up a screen of self-control and moderation, where would the allure and the passion go?
Oh, the gaining experience also has strong magical roots and there is every aspect of it belonging to a Mystery relegion dating back to the Megalithic era...something which has no rational explanation, but which drives the deep forces in a definite direction towards the oracular experience...a loss of ego that creates a literal ecstasis. There are atavistic forces at work with this. I think that is some part of what Philosobear may have been feeling and what created the original concern with practising gluttony and gaining in the context of the much more rationally based Asian systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackariah
While I may have jumped in here a little late for serious comment, nonetheless I thought this a wonderful opportunity to summarize a bit of philosophy I've found relevant in regards to the gaining lifestyle.

The point that I would most like to make, is that desire and contentment are very different forces. Very often, particularly in our consumer driven society in America, people make the mistake of thinking that the satisfaction of desire leads to contentment. I would suggest that this thinking is very much in error. Instead, desire leads to more desire. Passion is not something to be sated, but rather a path that has little regard for destination.

Consider the following excerpt from the Roger Ames and David Hall translation of the recently discovered bamboo text version of the Dao De Jing, ostensibly by Lao Tzu:

"With the least modicum of wit,
The only things we have to fear in traveling the grand thoroughfare (dao)
Are the turn-offs.
The grand thoroughfare is perfectly level and straight
Yet people have a great fondness for mountain trails."

The trick, I suspect, is that without the occasional mountain trail excursion, we lose our motivation to travel onward down the grand thoroughfare. Desire is not something to be suppressed, or forbidden; however, in all things, moderation.

In other words, the path to contentment involves, at some point, the cessation of desire, or at least its mitigation. In reality, most of us play a balancing game between states of desire and contentment. I suspect the key is to remember the greater framework, to realize that even when one does practice some self indulgence, that indulgence itself must also be kept in moderation, for the health of one's mind and body.

Speaking metaphorically, perhaps we all have a fondness for mountain trails, but none of us desire to be lost in the mountains. Dull as the grand thoroughfare may sometimes seem, we depend on it.
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 03:53 PM   #22
Buffetbelly
Nosh, destroyer of snacks
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 782
Buffetbelly is a member of the 500 clubBuffetbelly is a member of the 500 clubBuffetbelly is a member of the 500 clubBuffetbelly is a member of the 500 clubBuffetbelly is a member of the 500 clubBuffetbelly is a member of the 500 club
Default

Never take moderation to extremes.
Buffetbelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 05:54 PM   #23
Obesus
Designated Fat Holy Man
 
Obesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,009
Obesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging inObesus makes people happy simply by logging in
Default As always, esteemed moderator and friend, BB

You save the day with wisdom and grace. I was, truth be told, going a bit on rant/screed mode there and I felt tremendous Catholic guilt there...aha..fallen Catholics may make very very good gainer gluttonists, due to cultural context...must explore theme...but you are spot on...gaining is about abandon with the kind of moderation that recognizes that health and sanity are not to be trifled with...or have I taken your sense off base?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffetbelly
Never take moderation to extremes.
__________________
"Carpe Cakem!" :eat1:

Last edited by Obesus; 09-13-2006 at 07:20 AM.
Obesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright Dimensions Magazine. All rights reserved worldwide.