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Old 11-27-2013, 02:15 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by dodobird View Post
Mr Gosh, your post was especially helpful because you know what I'm talking about from both sides. Maybe you're right, maybe I just need to be much more direct about what I like. The guy I was talking about kept using the word "fetish" on me, and I don't consider myself to have a fat "fetish", I just prefer bigger guys. Maybe that's just the way I've heard it used, to describe something a bit odd that's best kept quiet. But then it felt like that was what he meant. Like I couldn't just casually like big guys, I have to be confessing some twisted sexual secret.
The word fetish gets used out of ignorance due the fact that a) small minded people don't have the capacity to accept something they deem to be out of "the norm" and b) they don't understand it, therefore fear it, therefore label it a fetish.

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Oh, and I'm in Norfolk and we can always use more eye candy I don't know whether I'd say there are more of my kind here, often when I mention my preference other girls will say they prefer chubby guys too - like, they like to ogle six-packed celebrities but that's not necessarily what they're after in a mate. The only actually *shocked* reaction was from a male colleague at my old job I used to chat with on the bus home: "You like FAT PEOPLE?!" Uh, yes. Yes I do.
Gaaaawwwwd! Tell me about it sista! If I ever try to talk to my mates about how I'm into short/petite girls they always take the p!ss. If I find pictures to show them what I like they're all, 'Oh, so you wanna shag a kid?' or, 'I didn't know you were into skinny boys?' or some other sh!t.

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Since posting here I've been getting increasingly angry about society. I keep noticing, in a way I didn't before, how many jokes and unpleasant comments are made about "fat people" on TV and in normal conversation. It's used as a synonym for "ugly" and a shortcut for cheap laughs ALL THE BLOODY TIME. I know this won't be news to you guys, but now that I'm noticing it I'm just finding it infuriating. Crap like this is why I can't find an emotionally healthy guy I find attractive and why the relationships I do get into are so difficult. Grr.
It's the way kids are bandying about the word "gay" as if it's a synonym for "lame" or "loser etc. This is something that really grinds my geeeaars.
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:19 PM   #77
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I was re-reading this thread, because there was so much goodness in here that I was sure Iíd not caught it all on the first pass. One thing jumped out at me, and raised all sorts of questions in my mind:

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Originally Posted by biglynch View Post
At the end of the day most people are easy going relaxed people regardless of size. They like affection, and enjoy attraction.
My immediate thought was ďReally? Most people?Ē Then I thought maybe I was being too sceptical of the human race. My knee jerk reaction is that:
- Some people would rather be right than be happy, and have absorbed that despising fat is the Ďrightí thing to do.
- Some people are mostly performance/success driven, so have little affection for anything that might hold them back, make them considered less capable, etc, so will always consider fat to be a weakness in our society.
- Some people have an ideal for themselves, and will never give themselves approval or acceptance except for how well they are approaching that ideal.
- Maybe a third of people are left, who would line up with what BigLynch said.

But I have no numbers supporting that, that was just my gut instinct, based on the people I know. But of course, I come from a particular place (geographically and culturally), and even if my gut instinct is correct for my setting, it may be way off in a broader sense (and Iím not saying that it is right for my setting, either).

What do you all think? Do you think most people are easy-going and relaxed? Or not so much?
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:52 PM   #78
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What do you all think? Do you think most people are easy-going and relaxed? Or not so much?
I'm totally with you on that one, Tad. My experience is one that has left me skeptical, jaded and highly cynical.
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:33 PM   #79
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Yeah, I'm genuinely shocked by how many comedy shows I've always enjoyed use that tired and hurtful crutch for a cheap joke in the way lazy comedians used to make jokes about things that are now (very rightly!) considered taboo, like race. Somehow fat jokes are seen as OK, like fat people DESERVE it, and that really angers me. This is why I can't have nice things!
I'm going to go slightly off-roading a bit here from your OP, but on this, I could not possibly agree with you any less. It is just not humanly possible to do so.

Fat people do deserve to be made fun of. As well as people of different races, religions, or atheists, or women, or pedophiles or dumb people, or really anyone or anything. I feel lines shouldn't be drawn and if you can laugh at something and take the piss out of it to borrow a phrase from an Irish friend of mine, you take power over that. It makes things less taboo to talk about instead of more taboo.

The thing to remember, especially if you like comedy or comedians is that comedy at its essence is one person poking fun at another or at another's expense or misfortune. You can't be hypocritical and laugh at all the jokes until the comedian hits a topic near and dear to you. At that point you just ought to grin and bear it a little and know it's your turn in the ringer.

Also, to paraphrase a Joan Rivers quote, "Everybody is something. Everybody is black, or fat, or Asian, or gay, or a Jew, or whatever." Insert you personal cause du jour. So it get really dumb and hypocritical to say waht can and cannot be made fun of.

That's my thought on where comedy fits in. Note, I am talking about actual comedians and not just some drunken lout on the street. If someone like that is offensive, then they deserve to get socked in the nose. You gotta know your audience!
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:59 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Mr Gosh View Post
The word fetish gets used out of ignorance due the fact that a) small minded people don't have the capacity to accept something they deem to be out of "the norm" and b) they don't understand it, therefore fear it, therefore label it a fetish.
I think that's a little harsh, but there's already a huge debate over whether using the term "fetish" is ever appropriate when it comes to fat. Sure, it's inappropriate when someone merely has a preference. But that's definitely not all FAs.

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Originally Posted by Tad View Post
I was re-reading this thread, because there was so much goodness in here that I was sure Iíd not caught it all on the first pass. One thing jumped out at me, and raised all sorts of questions in my mind:



My immediate thought was ďReally? Most people?Ē Then I thought maybe I was being too sceptical of the human race. My knee jerk reaction is that:
- Some people would rather be right than be happy, and have absorbed that despising fat is the Ďrightí thing to do.
- Some people are mostly performance/success driven, so have little affection for anything that might hold them back, make them considered less capable, etc, so will always consider fat to be a weakness in our society.
- Some people have an ideal for themselves, and will never give themselves approval or acceptance except for how well they are approaching that ideal.
- Maybe a third of people are left, who would line up with what BigLynch said.

But I have no numbers supporting that, that was just my gut instinct, based on the people I know. But of course, I come from a particular place (geographically and culturally), and even if my gut instinct is correct for my setting, it may be way off in a broader sense (and Iím not saying that it is right for my setting, either).

What do you all think? Do you think most people are easy-going and relaxed? Or not so much?
Your first bullet point really stuck out to me, because I've spent awhile musing over the same thing. I'm not saying the pursuit of truth isn't noble or worthwhile...but the fact that people will get so engrossed in "being right" over being happy or bringing happiness to others really bugs me.

I'm inclined to say that many people are easy-going in the environment + circumstances that they're comfortable in. But they're often all too inclined to judge and be overly sententious in the face of anything that they don't agree with.

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Originally Posted by LeoGibson View Post
Fat people do deserve to be made fun of. As well as people of different races, religions, or atheists, or women, or pedophiles or dumb people, or really anyone or anything. I feel lines shouldn't be drawn and if you can laugh at something and take the piss out of it to borrow a phrase from an Irish friend of mine, you take power over that. It makes things less taboo to talk about instead of more taboo.
I can't rep you at the moment, so I'll just note that I couldn't agree more. People need to learn to laugh more and take things a little less seriously. Not completely un-seriously. But I firmly believe there's a little (or a lot) of humor in pretty much everything. It definitely helps bring things out into the open and enables people to discuss them more freely.
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Old 11-27-2013, 09:08 PM   #81
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I think that's a little harsh, but there's already a huge debate over whether using the term "fetish" is ever appropriate when it comes to fat. Sure, it's inappropriate when someone merely has a preference. But that's definitely not all FAs.
I only said that because most recorded definitions of the word Fetish imply an "abnormal" or "excessive" level of sexual desire towards something, which, is also necessary to facilitate complete sexual satisfaction.

I find all kinds of people to be sexually attractive for a myriad of reasons but I simply have certain preferences, such as short and petite. I don't feel an overwhelming need to attain that; nor is it necessary in bringing about satisfactory sexual gratification; I simply prefer that. Most men and women have preferences such hair colour, boob size, height, body shape & size. (Sound familiar?) They, however, do not get critisised for their preferences, nor are they deemed to be fetishistic.

Whilst I'm sure there will be a minority element within the FA community that will display behavior indicative of obsession, most community members do not hold similar feelings. A similar element can be found in almost any prominent aspect of a particular culture/subculture. As I always say at the height of cynicism: Wherever you go and however at peace you feel, sooner or later, some dick is gonna come along and piss on your chips. Why? Simply because they're a dick. Dicks are everywhere.

I should've went into more detail in my original post, but I tend to waffle on enough as it is when I'm baked; as is quite apparent, I feel.
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:32 PM   #82
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I'm going to go slightly off-roading a bit here from your OP, but on this, I could not possibly agree with you any less. It is just not humanly possible to do so.

Fat people do deserve to be made fun of. As well as people of different races, religions, or atheists, or women, or pedophiles or dumb people, or really anyone or anything. I feel lines shouldn't be drawn and if you can laugh at something and take the piss out of it to borrow a phrase from an Irish friend of mine, you take power over that. It makes things less taboo to talk about instead of more taboo.

The thing to remember, especially if you like comedy or comedians is that comedy at its essence is one person poking fun at another or at another's expense or misfortune. You can't be hypocritical and laugh at all the jokes until the comedian hits a topic near and dear to you. At that point you just ought to grin and bear it a little and know it's your turn in the ringer.

Also, to paraphrase a Joan Rivers quote, "Everybody is something. Everybody is black, or fat, or Asian, or gay, or a Jew, or whatever." Insert you personal cause du jour. So it get really dumb and hypocritical to say waht can and cannot be made fun of.

That's my thought on where comedy fits in. Note, I am talking about actual comedians and not just some drunken lout on the street. If someone like that is offensive, then they deserve to get socked in the nose. You gotta know your audience!
At the risk of sounding self-righteous, I don't find jokes about ANY of those things funny. With the possible exception of paedophiles, and other wrong-doers whose feelings I do not particularly care about. It is very possible to be funny without falling back on ANY of those. If you're a good person you do not "deserve" to be made fun of, end of story.

We're obviously going to have to agree to disagree on the definition of comedy but you're making a lot of assumptions about me and my sense of humour to call me a hypocrite and it's not really OK to call anyone "dumb".
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Old 11-28-2013, 01:16 PM   #83
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At the risk of sounding self-righteous, I don't find jokes about ANY of those things funny. With the possible exception of paedophiles, and other wrong-doers whose feelings I do not particularly care about. It is very possible to be funny without falling back on ANY of those. If you're a good person you do not "deserve" to be made fun of, end of story.

We're obviously going to have to agree to disagree on the definition of comedy but you're making a lot of assumptions about me and my sense of humour to call me a hypocrite and it's not really OK to call anyone "dumb".
Actually, I don't know you personally, or anything about you. So I made no assumptions about *you* in particular. My post was not directed at you personally, I used your post as a springboard to give my opinion about comedy and the *you* I'm referencing is the collective you not the individual you. My apologies if you took it so, but it wasn't meant to be directed to you personally, sometimes intent and nuance get lost in the written word.

I still stand by it as being hypocritical thinking though if anyone can laugh at anything else being made fun of until it gets to an issue that is something you care about.

Name one example if you can of humor that is not at the expense of someone or something.
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Old 11-28-2013, 01:20 PM   #84
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Actually, I don't know you personally, or anything about you. So I made no assumptions about *you* in particular. My post was not directed at you personally, I used your post as a springboard to give my opinion about comedy and the *you* I'm referencing is the collective you not the individual you. My apologies if you took it so, but it wasn't meant to be directed to you personally, sometimes intent and nuance get lost in the written word.

I still stand by it as being hypocritical thinking though if anyone can laugh at anything else being made fun of until it gets to an issue that is something you care about.

Name one example if you can of humor that is not at the expense of someone or something.
Well, I take issue with your sudden introduction of "something" as well as "someone", but the first thing that springs to mind as a piece of comedy that doesn't make fun of a person or group is one of my favourites, Eddie Izzard's Death Star Canteen. Eddie is one of my favourite comedians and almost exclusively pokes fun at history, movies and inanimate objects.
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:32 PM   #85
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Well, I take issue with your sudden introduction of "something" as well as "someone", but the first thing that springs to mind as a piece of comedy that doesn't make fun of a person or group is one of my favourites, Eddie Izzard's Death Star Canteen. Eddie is one of my favourite comedians and almost exclusively pokes fun at history, movies and inanimate objects.
I put something and someone so that I could fully clarify my thought since the first post was not as clear as I could have made it.

I like Eddie Izzard as well. He is a brilliant comic. But even in this fairly benign clip you linked I could use your above logic and find offense with it If I was an overly sensitive politically correct person. He made fun of child abuse, Americans, and I grant you this is a little bit of a stretch, but the whole premise resolves around workplace violence at the hands of an authority figure. Go ahead and groan now I know that is a reach, but there are people that could take that from it.

I find comedy to be art. As such I never want to see art of any kind censored in any way. That is the whole of my thoughts on the subject. As you noted above, we'll probably have to agree to disagree.
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:44 PM   #86
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I put something and someone so that I could fully clarify my thought since the first post was not as clear as I could have made it.

I like Eddie Izzard as well. He is a brilliant comic. But even in this fairly benign clip you linked I could use your above logic and find offense with it If I was an overly sensitive politically correct person. He made fun of child abuse, Americans, and I grant you this is a little bit of a stretch, but the whole premise resolves around workplace violence at the hands of an authority figure. Go ahead and groan now I know that is a reach, but there are people that could take that from it.

I find comedy to be art. As such I never want to see art of any kind censored in any way. That is the whole of my thoughts on the subject. As you noted above, we'll probably have to agree to disagree.
That is not using my logic. That is extrapolating what you perceive my argument to be to a ridiculous level to form a shaky conclusion. I'm not "overly sensitive" and looking for things to be offended by. I haven't even given an example of something I find offensive. I said the prevalence of fat jokes in the media and real life makes me angry. You said I had no right to be angered by that if I'm going to laugh at other groups being made fun of. I said I don't laugh at that and think it's possible to be funny without making fun of anyone. You asked for an example, I gave you Eddie Izzard. You then fabricated a list of things that a hypothetical "overly sensitive politically correct person" might find to be offended by in it.

Whether those things are there to find or not is a separate issue, but I am not that "overly sensitive politically correct person". I am not squinting hard at every piece of comedy I watch and saying "Oooh, he mentioned a bad thing!!" I said that using "fat" as a synonym for "ugly" and a shortcut to a cheap laugh is lazy, unfunny and unnecessary. That is the whole of MY thoughts on the subject. You just seem to have decided to pick a fight with me over it and then say that I (or people like me, which amounts to the same thing) am "overly sensitive", "hypocritical" and "dumb".

I'm not advocating censorship. Sure, comedy is an art, but in the same way as I wouldn't be impressed by someone letting their cat walk over a keyboard and publishing the result as literature, I'm underwhelmed by comedians falling back on fat jokes.

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Old 11-28-2013, 07:25 PM   #87
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My beef is to do with intent, laziness, delivery and impact beyond the joke.

A lot of jokes about fat people tend to be rather aggressive and aren't about having a laugh. They're most often just insults. This attitude carries over into real life.
People find fat people disgusting, so let's come up with an insult and call it a joke. LAZY.
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:00 PM   #88
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That is not using my logic. That is extrapolating what you perceive my argument to be to a ridiculous level to form a shaky conclusion. I'm not "overly sensitive" and looking for things to be offended by. I haven't even given an example of something I find offensive. I said the prevalence of fat jokes in the media and real life makes me angry. You said I had no right to be angered by that if I'm going to laugh at other groups being made fun of. I said I don't laugh at that and think it's possible to be funny without making fun of anyone. You asked for an example, I gave you Eddie Izzard. You then fabricated a list of things that a hypothetical "overly sensitive politically correct person" might find to be offended by in it.

Whether those things are there to find or not is a separate issue, but I am not that "overly sensitive politically correct person". I am not squinting hard at every piece of comedy I watch and saying "Oooh, he mentioned a bad thing!!" I said that using "fat" as a synonym for "ugly" and a shortcut to a cheap laugh is lazy, unfunny and unnecessary. That is the whole of MY thoughts on the subject. You just seem to have decided to pick a fight with me over it and then say that I (or people like me, which amounts to the same thing) am "overly sensitive", "hypocritical" and "dumb".

I'm not advocating censorship. Sure, comedy is an art, but in the same way as I wouldn't be impressed by someone letting their cat walk over a keyboard and publishing the result as literature, I'm underwhelmed by comedians falling back on fat jokes.
One of the things I really dislike about the internet is when people infer what you are trying to say instead of taking what you said at face value. If I wanted to say I found you to be a overly sensitive, politically correct person I would have phrased my sentence different. I would have said, " If I was an overly sensitive, politically correct person such as yourself I would find offense." But that is not what I typed. I said, "If I was an overly sensitive, politically correct person." Of which, we do have in abundance here in the states.

Also, while I did dig a bit to show you where someone could be offended by that bit, I stand by it and what I put out there from the first in that all comedy is going to offend someone. That is the nature of comedy. While you may dismiss my examples as being absurd, I'll stand by the fact that people who have been either a victim of child abuse, or anti-American or New Yorker sentiments, or a victim of workplace bullying from their boss or other authority figure could find offense with that Eddie Izzard bit you posted. You may not see how, because it is none of your hot-button issues, but that doesn't make them any less so for someone who does feel that way.

Look, it's a holiday here, and I'll admit I'm enjoying a spirited debate while having spirits! But here's the deal, it is not a fight, it is two adults disagreeing, hopefully without being disagreeable about it. I also think you are a lovely young lady who feels very deeply about those she cares about and very passionately about any injustice that is aimed towards those she cares about, and anyone who feels passionately about anything in this world in this day and age cannot be all wrong or all bad in my book. So on this issue we will probably never ever see eye to eye, and that's ok. Have a great weekend upcoming and enjoy life! See you around the boards!
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:02 PM   #89
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My beef is to do with intent, laziness, delivery and impact beyond the joke.

A lot of jokes about fat people tend to be rather aggressive and aren't about having a laugh. They're most often just insults. This attitude carries over into real life.
People find fat people disgusting, so let's come up with an insult and call it a joke. LAZY.
You are right Sassy. There are *bad* comics, just like bad actors. or musicians, or songwriters, or painters. I choose not to support or even waste time absorbing their art. But, when done well, and crafted artistically, and not a lazy, hack joke, I will laugh heartily at a joke even if it is at my expense, just so long as it is well done!
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:09 PM   #90
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You are right Sassy. There are *bad* comics, just like bad actors. or musicians, or songwriters, or painters. I choose not to support or even waste time absorbing their art. But, when done well, and crafted artistically, and not a lazy, hack joke, I will laugh heartily at a joke even if it is at my expense, just so long as it is well done!
Yes. *fist bump*
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Old 11-29-2013, 05:41 AM   #91
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Back when I was in college I used to write and perform bits of stand up comedy, and one of my routines was based on a prank we did on the tube. Essentially the prank was simple, me and another fat mate of mine Paul would find a person on the tube and sit either side of them and we would get real comfy in our seats basically squashing them a bit. The reactions varied but were always funny.

So the routine. My opening line I would identify all the fat people in the crowd, then tell them they disgusted me. This is why, due to years of negligent chair use on trains, busses, planes, cinemas and even now in my audience they were not enjoying the full chair they are in. I would then encourage them to right now reclaim that seat, listen to the groan of the persons next to them, and most of all enjoy the tension as they squirm. Now is the time to stop sitting in 65% of the isle seat and leaving your leg flapping at your side. Push up and let them know fat people have elbows too!

The joke is simply youíre too fat for your seat. I felt I dealt with it well enough to not be offensive.

I will try to find the whole thing, as it was one of my better bits.
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:24 PM   #92
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I'm not sure I can add much here, but as a UK based BHM who has been in this scene a long long time I can identify what you said about your previous boyfriends.

Society in general, our families and friends, colleagues etc all tell us that it's wrong to be fat. If I lose a few pounds, people I hardly know at work will congratulate me. Naturally they won't say a word (at least to my face anyway) if the opposite happens.

I think you have to have a reasonable amount of confidence to get past all of that. I grew up slim, so I never got bullied in school and I think that's important. Bullying in schools can be horrific at times and it must be even worse now with everyone having facebook and mobiles etc (god I sound so old at just 28 lol). So I suppose I left school without any confidence or self loathing issues, and then gradually got fatter from age 18 onwards.

I can remember when I was about 21, I had put on about 4 stone in the previous 3 years, and my girlfriend at the time had also gained about 3 stone (we loved to eat out). She absolutely hated the extra weight on both herself and on me. I actually really enjoyed her chubby belly and bigger boobs, but no amount of persuasion could make her believe that. She truly thought that she was disgusting, and I must have been lying to say that I fancied her. In the end it was one of the things that forced us apart, as the physical side of our relationship died and we practically became friends rather than lovers, till we both agreed to call it a day.

It was not long after that, that I discovered this place and FF, and since then I've been lucky enough to meet / date several lovely FFA's, which gives me the confidence to be proud of my 22 stone body, and to enjoy gaining weight. I think I would have really struggled without sites like these, as I love to eat so I'd always have been fat, though perhaps not as fat as I am now.

Hopefully this post makes sense. I'm stupidly tired and hungover right now!
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Old 12-15-2013, 07:15 PM   #93
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...

Fat people do deserve to be made fun of. As well as people of different races, religions, or atheists, or women, or pedophiles or dumb people, or really anyone or anything. I feel lines shouldn't be drawn and if you can laugh at something and take the piss out of it to borrow a phrase from an Irish friend of mine, you take power over that. It makes things less taboo to talk about instead of more taboo.

...

Also, to paraphrase a Joan Rivers quote, "Everybody is something. Everybody is black, or fat, or Asian, or gay, or a Jew, or whatever." Insert you personal cause du jour. So it get really dumb and hypocritical to say waht can and cannot be made fun of.

...
Yes, it is indeed possible to take ownership of one's condition be it fatness, gayness, blackness, Jewishness ... through comedy . However, I draw the line when it comes to mean spirited jokes. Unfortunately many (if not most) fat jokes are mean spirited and hurtful. Comedians who rely on such material are playing to the most base human instincts. They are not helping to empower anyone (other than bullies) and should not be supported in any way.
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:55 PM   #94
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Yes, it is indeed possible to take ownership of one's condition be it fatness, gayness, blackness, Jewishness ... through comedy . However, I draw the line when it comes to mean spirited jokes. Unfortunately many (if not most) fat jokes are mean spirited and hurtful. Comedians who rely on such material are playing to the most base human instincts. They are not helping to empower anyone (other than bullies) and should not be supported in any way.
At the risk of derailing this thread again, all I simply wish to point out is that comedy, at its core, is mean-spirited. Now there are pure things that humans can laugh at, for instance I get great joy and laughter just from watching my dogs play. But comedy is pretty much always at the expense of someone else. The thing is, that unless it hits close to your home (the collective your as opposed to you specifically) you can laugh about it. That is why I consider no topic off-limits in comedy. There are times when I have to turn the dial on the TV when some comics do some routines that hit close to home for me and make me cringe, but I don't want them not to be able to do it. Some that are very clever have even had me laughing at some issues that before I would have been made uncomfortable by and in turn helped me rethink my feelings about certain things. You would be hard pressed to find a comedy bit that isn't shitting on someone to a certain extent.

Anyways, back to the relationship talk, of which I have zero useful information to pass along!
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:20 AM   #95
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Hereís a question for anyone to mull over with me.

I know that ďrelationshipĒ means different things to different people and that there are various kinds. Iíve been trying not to get too hung up on ďrelationship security,Ē live in the moment and take things as they come. But....I feel I have a lot to give and, to be honest, that scares me. I donít want to take away any manís freedom or ever make them feel obligated to be with me. Least of all someone I love. Hard as Iíve been trying to adjust my expectations, I canít get over the scary-ness of giving so much of myself to someone with the thought that I have no guarantees of still being loved next month, or next week. But also, I struggle with the thought of withholding my affection.

Donít get me wrong, I wouldnít ask anyone to ďpromise me forever.Ē Thatís one notion I have no problem letting go of. But I would so much like for a guy to WANT me in his foreseeable future. I fear that an amazing man will walk into my life with the best of intentions, only to find down the line that this one-woman business is terribly unfulfilling.

There are enough other challenges to a relationship without people feeling they have to deny their greatest needs. And I know there are many other reasons why people end things. That kind of trial and error I can live with. There are things about myself I work on and Iím always cognizant of being a pleasant person to date.

I still just wonder if itís even realistic to want a fulfilling long-term relationship. And sometimes I also wonder why certain aspects of the male/female psychological make-up seem so incompatible. Iím starting to feel like being loved deeply -- albeit through the peaks and troughs -- for any length of time is too much to ask. But, as much as I would like to embrace the realities of life, Iíd never wanted anything more. Trying to let go of that is the hardest thing Iíve ever done.
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Old 01-08-2015, 05:23 AM   #96
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Hereís a question for anyone to mull over with me.

I know that ďrelationshipĒ means different things to different people and that there are various kinds. Iíve been trying not to get too hung up on ďrelationship security,Ē live in the moment and take things as they come. But....I feel I have a lot to give and, to be honest, that scares me. I donít want to take away any manís freedom or ever make them feel obligated to be with me. Least of all someone I love. Hard as Iíve been trying to adjust my expectations, I canít get over the scary-ness of giving so much of myself to someone with the thought that I have no guarantees of still being loved next month, or next week. But also, I struggle with the thought of withholding my affection.

Donít get me wrong, I wouldnít ask anyone to ďpromise me forever.Ē Thatís one notion I have no problem letting go of. But I would so much like for a guy to WANT me in his foreseeable future. I fear that an amazing man will walk into my life with the best of intentions, only to find down the line that this one-woman business is terribly unfulfilling.

There are enough other challenges to a relationship without people feeling they have to deny their greatest needs. And I know there are many other reasons why people end things. That kind of trial and error I can live with. There are things about myself I work on and Iím always cognizant of being a pleasant person to date.

I still just wonder if itís even realistic to want a fulfilling long-term relationship. And sometimes I also wonder why certain aspects of the male/female psychological make-up seem so incompatible. Iím starting to feel like being loved deeply -- albeit through the peaks and troughs -- for any length of time is too much to ask. But, as much as I would like to embrace the realities of life, Iíd never wanted anything more. Trying to let go of that is the hardest thing Iíve ever done.
I don't think it is something you should be giving up on, men who want long term relationships do indeed exist. I for one am quite looking forward to finding someone to spend the rest of my life with even if most people these days find that to be an outdated notion.

*Disclaimer- Generalizations ahead! The author realizes and agrees that the following scenarios and/or descriptions do not apply to 100% of all people. Please unbunch your undies and read the following in the spirit it was intended.

To me you've got three hard strikes against you at this point in your life; one, presumably you're looking for someone close to your own age to date and I'm sorry but a large portion of the men in that age range are just immature with little to nil self awareness. Two, the physicality you are attracted to tends to produce men who are even more on the immature and low self esteem end of the pool. Fat guys by and large (pun intended) have less experience with women and doubt their ability to keep a woman after years of societal conditioning. Three, ... Fuck I forgot what my third point was going to be but rest assured it was well thought out and appropriate when I was able to remember it!

Dang it...ah well, when I do remember it I'll post it back in here.
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:30 AM   #97
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Here's the hard science behind it.
'Why Do Humans Form Long-Term
Mateships? An Evolutionary
Game-Theoretic Model'

http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homep...ss,%202014.pdf

So romantic.


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But....I feel I have a lot to give and, to be honest, that scares me. I don’t want to take away any man’s freedom or ever make them feel obligated to be with me. Least of all someone I love.
You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. The right person, and someone who loves you, will not be looking at being with you as removing their freedom. [edit fixing comma]

There are plenty of men out there that want someone they can be with forever. Simply look at these forums. How many of the BHM on here would you call 'players' and how many have expressed their desire to settle down with someone to love them? It wouldn't be unfair to say a good portion of BHM on here are hopeless romantics.


As djudex said, immaturity comes into play; it's quite possible men in your age range have not reached that stage of their life yet they are seeking a LTR. Many men want to settle down with someone, but most do not feel that way when they are younger. This is natural as men are hardwired to build a resource pool and secure the ability to support a mate before they settle down with one.

However, I'd be remiss to not mention the economic realities and cultural upheaval that present obstacles to LTRs (the marriage rate is dropping and the divorce rate was climbing but has momentarily leveled off).

Male unemployment is rising and fewer men are earning college degrees (at the current trajectory, the last US male will graduate in 2065). I have no interest in getting into an argument on gender roles, but the reality is that if women still seek a man who fits the bill as a provider (studies show 75% of women, even when they themselves don't need financial support, flat out refuse to date unemployed men) and men don't pursue long term relationships until they feel stable enough to do so, women are selecting from an ever shrinking pool of eligible candidates.

Especially, if one is pursuing BHM. Fat/obesity is a marker of low status and poverty these days, especially given the increased competition for jobs. The reality is that if a employer has a choice between two applicants of similar skill/experience, the fat guy is going to be passed over. The Venn diagram of Successful Men and Obese Men is small and is getting smaller.

In short, don't be too hard on yourself. Forces beyond your control are conspiring against you finding true love, but your true love is out there, also looking for you.
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:06 AM   #98
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I don't think it is something you should be giving up on, men who want long term relationships do indeed exist. [Snip...]
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You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. The right person, and someone who loves you will, not be looking at being with you as removing their freedom. [Snip...]
I seriously want to thank you both for taking the time to drop your 2 cents in. I love how much thought people put into replying to things like this. And... you're right. You're both right.

I've been viewing the world of romance through some very cracked lenses, for vaaarious reasons (including some of the ones cited in both your conspiracy theories), and I just caved in to what reality *felt like to me right then. I'm glad I posted it, though. Some more objective points of view were exactly what the doctor ordered. This'll be so helpful to look back on whenever the temptation hits to revisit the broken glasses. I believe they belong to my dad anyway. He can have them back.

Cheesy analogies aside, I really really appreciate it
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:32 PM   #99
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...

I still just wonder if itís even realistic to want a fulfilling long-term relationship. And sometimes I also wonder why certain aspects of the male/female psychological make-up seem so incompatible. Iím starting to feel like being loved deeply -- albeit through the peaks and troughs -- for any length of time is too much to ask. But, as much as I would like to embrace the realities of life, Iíd never wanted anything more. Trying to let go of that is the hardest thing Iíve ever done.
People need to realize that long term relationships are essentially economic in nature. If one or both parties to a relationship are dead weight the relationship is likely doomed. If a person wants to be part of a long-term relationship the first step is to ensure that they bring something to the table.

The best way to increase one's marketability is by getting an education and/or a career.
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:41 PM   #100
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ODFFA.. I know how you feel. Honestly, I wonder the same thing. in this age of "Hey if it doesn't work out we just get divorced" it is hard to find someone who wants to be in it for the long haul.

I think people tend to rush things. Things are good for 6 months or a year and they are off getting married and divorced within 5 years. I think people need to get to know each other. The good the bad and the ugly. then you have to really think if your character, your person can really deal with this persons characteristics for the next 50 60 years of your life.

Marriage/partnerships, committed relationships should be thought of as long lasting.. not as a here today gone tomorrow type of thing.

In girl terms... long term relationships are not fast fashion... they are not fads.. they are style.. JMO

All that being said, don't give up. there are plenty of men that are looking for just that kind of relationship that you are looking for. For some it found quickly, for others it takes longer, but it is out there.
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