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Old 11-04-2007, 05:56 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by fa_man_stan View Post
Carrots are nature's original phallic symbol...



Here's an article that caught my eye in yesterday's L.A. Times:

"To go green, live closer to work"
"New study says planning compact, mixed-use communities instead of suburbs would help save the planet from effects of greenhouse gases."

Didn't the Europeans discover that 50 years ago!?

Stan
Telecommuters are pretty green then I guess.
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:46 PM   #252
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I was sniveling about the high cost of my 'Bioplastics' magazine subscription but I didn't know the price also included 'Biomass' magazine.

Here are some highlights from the November 2007 issue.
Quote:
'Closing the Energy Circle'

Green Circle Bio energy Inc. is building the world's biggest wood pellet plant in the heart of the largest plantation-style pine forest in the world. Until U.S. legislation promoting biomass power catches up with directives in Europe, these pellets will be exported to a handful of European power companies.

...more than 32 million acres of pine are grown in the southeastern United States. ...this plant will produce enough wood pellets in a year to generate 2,400 gigawatt hours of electricity--that's more than 2.5 trillion watt hours. ..."The concept is to supply European power industry with our wood pellets."...

...The virgin wood has been gone for hundreds of years so we're talking replanted forest here"...

"... so if we put in one unit of fossil fuels we get out 11 times that in renewable energy."...
Who gets the carbon credits for being green, Europe or America? And why isn't America 'burning our forests' to generate power instead of Middle-East oil?

Quote:
'The Fischer-Tropsch/Fat Connection'

... The U.S. DOE helped fund a demonstration plant to scale up the Syntroleum process and produce 400,000 gallons of synfuels for testing in military jets and diesel applications. Syntroleum supplied JP8 jet fuel it produced from natural gas to the U.S. Air Force. It passed the tests and is now certified for use in a 50 percent blend with petroleum-based jet fuel in B52 bombers. The Air Force intends to certify all of its aircraft to fly on the blend by 2011....

...The company's business development group created a short list of potential partners and this summer closed a deal with Tyson Foods Inc...

... low-grade animal fats, greases and vegetable oils supplied by Tyson. The $150 million project is targeted to be on line by 2010...

... The U.S. Air Force's goal is to replace half of the 1.6 billion gallons of domestic fuel it uses per year with alternative fuels by 2016...
Tyson Foods produces chicken, beef and pork products. Sorta gives new meaning to the phrase, 'when pigs fly'.

I think it's wonderful that our landfills are spared all the animal fats & grease, which are now being used to reduce our dependency on Middle-East oil. But I'm not so sure it's a good idea to ship our replanted forests off to Europe.

I'm still 'rooting' for algae, or as I like to call it... pond scum.
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Old 11-07-2007, 12:54 AM   #253
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Hi Bio,

I checked out the site that you directed me to, Treehugger.com
It is an excellant site. I especially like the information regarding going green with women's personal products, namely cosmetics etc. It is very germaine to my health.
Still getting my head around which cleaning products to buy.
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:42 AM   #254
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Hi Bio,

I checked out the site that you directed me to, Treehugger.com
It is an excellant site. I especially like the information regarding going green with women's personal products, namely cosmetics etc. It is very germaine to my health.
Still getting my head around which cleaning products to buy.
Shosh, you're probably gonna have to try several cleaning products to see which does the best job in your opinion (no harsh chemicals to cut through the grease, see, so you're gonna need some elbow grease - the kind you supply ). Unfortunately, it's not cheap these days, going green. However, it is getting more affordable and accessible, at least.
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Old 11-07-2007, 01:53 PM   #255
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Tyson Foods produces chicken, beef and pork products. Sorta gives new meaning to the phrase, 'when pigs fly'.

I think it's wonderful that our landfills are spared all the animal fats & grease, which are now being used to reduce our dependency on Middle-East oil. But I'm not so sure it's a good idea to ship our replanted forests off to Europe.

I'm still 'rooting' for algae, or as I like to call it... pond scum.
What's funny, I have found, is that many enviro-Greenies seem to detest bio-fuels, claiming that such production "starves the poor". One would think eco-folk would support bio-fuels, but evidently it's too [pragmatic a solution to be attractive.
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Old 11-07-2007, 04:16 PM   #256
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What's funny, I have found, is that many enviro-Greenies seem to detest bio-fuels, claiming that such production "starves the poor"....
I'm opposed to all forms of extremism, even if I'm in partial agreement with some parts of it. Does that make me an extremist?

After reading newspaper articles, 'Biodiesel', 'Bioplastics' & 'Biomass' magazines, I'm of the opinion scientists all over the world are researching into converting every last bit of agriculture waste products into bioplastics, biofuels or biomass to burn for power generation. Just like the genetic engineering industry, serious money is being spent on research. That's why I firmly believe we are finally seeing an end to the world's petroleum-based economy and the beginnings of a bio-based economy. As the cost of a barrel of oil keeps setting new records, simple economic forces will make us greener whether we believe in global warming or not.


Quote:
In the beginning, there were algae, but there was no oil

Then, from algae came oil.

Now, the algae are still there, but oil is fast depleting

In future, there will be no oil, but there will still be algae

So, doesn’t it make sense to explore if we can again get oil from algae?

This is what we try to do at Oilgae.com – explore the potential of getting oil from algae
I don't believe it's a good thing to divert productive acreage from food crops to fuel crops. We've recently seen near riots in Mexico City over corn tortillas nearly doubling in cost. We saw 'boycotts' in Italy over the increasing price of pasta. Fact is, there isn't enough arable land to even come close to fulfilling our fuel needs. Excluding ongoing EPA research using contaminated lands under the Super Fund, to return toxic sites to productivity by growing soy beans for biodiesel, growing crops for fuel benefits farmers but hurts all of us in the form of higher food prices.

However... I do love me some pond scum! Algae is up to 100 times more productive than any corn or soy crops at producing oils. Doesn't need farm land or clean water. Algae can be used as the first step in reclaiming water from sewage. 72% of our nations power plants have enough acreage for algae farms, which by the way, algae loves to eat power plant greenhouse gas. We already have diesel engines & pipeline infrastructure to transport biodiesel. Biodiesel is a 100% EPA approved clean-burning fuel. There is none of that 'which came first? chicken or the egg?' problem. No new technology required. Talk about pragmatic solutions!

In todays LA Times 'Highway 1' section, Jay Leno said "My thing with the green situation is: Even if you don't believe in global warming, don't you want to screw the oil company or gas company or utility company?"

My goal in life is to be self-sufficient. Can't help it, got it from my parents. Being green is great, but with me it comes down to 'waste-not-want-not' & self-sufficiency. Some make jokes, calling me a hillbilly, but I'm proud of never asking for a handout. I'm not ashamed of the true definition of a hillbilly, which is strong, independent & self reliant. I think America needs to cut our ties to Middle-East oil & become energy independent. How stupid is it that we finance terrorism with our oil addiction? IMO, being green will be the outcome of achieving energy independence.
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Old 11-07-2007, 07:25 PM   #257
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I don't believe it's a good thing to divert productive acreage from food crops to fuel crops. We've recently seen near riots in Mexico City over corn tortillas nearly doubling in cost. We saw 'boycotts' in Italy over the increasing price of pasta. Fact is, there isn't enough arable land to even come close to fulfilling our fuel needs.
I believe there is. All the anti-bio-fuel reports and studies out there are, in my opinion, propaganda pieces of cherry-picked data that arrive at false and misleading conclusions.

There is a LOT of arable land in the US alone--the vast majority of it is being wasted on cattle grazing. It could easily support bio-diesel production on a vast scale, if ranchers had more economic incentive to stop using land to grow cow patties.

Now, ethanol itself, I believe, is wasteful and inefficient. But bio-diesel is not, and it does not have to be limited to pond scum. We have lots of land. If you combined windmills, solar collectors, and soybeans on the same acres, states like Oklahoma and Texas could once again become energy giants.
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:04 PM   #258
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Also what would be wise for people to know is to use less carcinogenic products or products that harm the environment. Products like vinyl siding are very unhelathy to the environment. Although it may look nice it can potentially stop your home from breathing resulting in moisture trapped underneath the vynil causing mold to grow in your walls. Also the siding is made from dioxins which are one of the most deadly if not dangerous chemicals on earth. They also have a low melting point, and give off deadly poisonous fumes in a fire.

We must remember that we should think with ethical values when making decisions even in things that make up our home. Since unfortunately american building standards haven't changed much. While Europeans are light-years ahead of us in eco-efficiency

You rock biodieselman!
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:31 AM   #259
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Also what would be wise for people to know is to use less carcinogenic products or products that harm the environment. Products like vinyl siding are very unhelathy to the environment. Although it may look nice it can potentially stop your home from breathing resulting in moisture trapped underneath the vynil causing mold to grow in your walls. Also the siding is made from dioxins which are one of the most deadly if not dangerous chemicals on earth. They also have a low melting point, and give off deadly poisonous fumes in a fire.

We must remember that we should think with ethical values when making decisions even in things that make up our home. Since unfortunately american building standards haven't changed much. While Europeans are light-years ahead of us in eco-efficiency

You rock biodieselman!
You're so right about harming the environment. Last night, Bio and I watched a program on Nature about the plight of the honeybee. A plague has been infesting them over the past three years causing what is called "Colony Collapse Disorder," where the entire population of a hive deserts the hive and goes off to die. It's been estimated that 1/3 of the honeybee population has gone missing (presumably dead) very recently. Nations worldwide are reporting similar occurrences.

It's not known what causes CCD, however they determined that insecticides play a role in at least some of the deaths amongst the honeybee populations in France, where they've banned certain insecticides. In one U.S. study, honeybees were found with 41 different insecticides in their bodies. It's a wonder they're able to survive at all with much of their food supplied literally poisoned.
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:45 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Risible View Post
You're so right about harming the environment. Last night, Bio and I watched a program on Nature about the plight of the honeybee. A plague has been infesting them over the past three years causing what is called "Colony Collapse Disorder," where the entire population of a hive deserts the hive and goes off to die. It's been estimated that 1/3 of the honeybee population has gone missing (presumably dead) very recently. Nations worldwide are reporting similar occurrences.

It's not known what causes CCD, however they determined that insecticides play a role in at least some of the deaths amongst the honeybee populations in France, where they've banned certain insecticides. In one U.S. study, honeybees were found with 41 different insecticides in their bodies. It's a wonder they're able to survive at all with much of their food supplied literally poisoned.
Risible -
By coincidence, your post (relayed to my e-mail) was followed by a CSM story, bearing on the cause of CCD, and the effect on US agriculture. Note: you may think that it is odd for me to quote CSM, but they are, IMHO, a reliable news source on most topics.

Here's a link to the article.

Progress on 'collapsing' beehives
Some warned of crop disaster when honeybees started to disappear. Crops didn't fail, but farmers and beekeepers aren't out of danger yet.
By Moises Velasquez-Manoff | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

from the November 8, 2007 edition

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1108/p...html?s=wklyenv
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Old 11-10-2007, 11:24 AM   #261
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Risible -
By coincidence, your post (relayed to my e-mail) was followed by a CSM story, bearing on the cause of CCD, and the effect on US agriculture. Note: you may think that it is odd for me to quote CSM, but they are, IMHO, a reliable news source on most topics.

Here's a link to the article.

Progress on 'collapsing' beehives
Some warned of crop disaster when honeybees started to disappear. Crops didn't fail, but farmers and beekeepers aren't out of danger yet.
By Moises Velasquez-Manoff | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

from the November 8, 2007 edition

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1108/p...html?s=wklyenv
The human race actually needs to pitch together in a rational (and civilized and free) manner and clean up the oceans. The coral reefs near developing nations are dying. That's an indicator of how much human filth is going into the sea.

Every day, the cities of the world pump millions of gallons of sewage and bio-matter into the ocean. Simultaneously, plastic by the ton washes into the ocean in the form of plastic bags, bottles, and containers.

We treat the skies and the land much better than we do the ocean. The ocean is the lifeblood of the planet.
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Old 11-10-2007, 12:20 PM   #262
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The human race actually needs to pitch together in a rational (and civilized and free) manner and clean up the oceans. The coral reefs near developing nations are dying. That's an indicator of how much human filth is going into the sea.

Every day, the cities of the world pump millions of gallons of sewage and bio-matter into the ocean. Simultaneously, plastic by the ton washes into the ocean in the form of plastic bags, bottles, and containers.

We treat the skies and the land much better than we do the ocean. The ocean is the lifeblood of the planet.

Well, some nations, Japan in particular, are doing more than their fair share of "cleaning" the oceans. Cleaning them out, that is.

You're right, Paul. The world's oceans are treated deplorably. I'm mindful of every single thing that I throw away or pour down the drain, of where it's likely to end up.
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Old 11-11-2007, 02:12 AM   #263
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You're so right about harming the environment. Last night, Bio and I watched a program on Nature about the plight of the honeybee. A plague has been infesting them over the past three years causing what is called "Colony Collapse Disorder," where the entire population of a hive deserts the hive and goes off to die. It's been estimated that 1/3 of the honeybee population has gone missing (presumably dead) very recently. Nations worldwide are reporting similar occurrences.

It's not known what causes CCD, however they determined that insecticides play a role in at least some of the deaths amongst the honeybee populations in France, where they've banned certain insecticides. In one U.S. study, honeybees were found with 41 different insecticides in their bodies. It's a wonder they're able to survive at all with much of their food supplied literally poisoned.
Its sad that soo many species of animals die and are extinct because of our presence on the environment. Your story about the bees is disheartening, I still remember being 5yrs old and going to the local park every weekend. There would be a beehive, and my dad would scoop out the honeycomb and get some good natural honey, (let me tell you nothing is as delicious as natural honey ). Unfortunately the bees were killed by an insecticide that was sprayed on them. It's sad that we can't even coexist with even the smallest of creatures.
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Old 11-11-2007, 10:22 AM   #264
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Bikes, people! OH HOW I LOVE THEE, BICYCLE!

Freddy Mercury knew what was going on! He sang her praises!

Bicycles are fantastic. ZERO DOLLARS AND ZERO GALLONS PER MILE. Does NOT contribute to environmental pollution (with the exception of the rubber tires and minimal amounts of grease).

You can take them on most public transport; they're fun to ride! You can ride with friends! You can all sorts of tricks with them, and compete too. They inject some sort of enjoyment into exercise.

Oh, and not to mention the HARD-ON (figuratively) that I get when I *saaaaaaail* passed cars stuck in traffic. Ha ha, suckahs.

And a good bike will only set you back 200 bucks. A tool kit? 20-30 bucks. You don't need insurance, but you'll want to consider a helmet and reflective materials if you ride at night.

And, when you're done with it, you can donate it, or upgrade! YAY!

I have one problem with this...when it is below 40 degrees, and/or above 80 degrees...you sweat your ass off on a bicycle. And unfortunately, being a business major, eventually going into business...you can't come into the office everyday smelling like a gym.

SO, unfortunately, Bikes, though awesome...are not so amazing an option. I am all for exercise...but a bicycle has severe limitations in the real world applications.
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Old 11-11-2007, 10:24 AM   #265
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I VOTE HYDROGEN!!!!

And until we get there, lets use water powered engines...cleaner, more efficient...uses about a gallon of gasoline per 100-150 miles, and is easily filled wherever water is found.

Oh, AND, the end product...is water! How snazzy!


OH...AND!!!

VOTE FOR ZAIN 2020!!!!!

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Old 11-11-2007, 12:18 PM   #266
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I VOTE HYDROGEN!!!!

And until we get there, lets use water powered engines...cleaner, more efficient...uses about a gallon of gasoline per 100-150 miles, and is easily filled wherever water is found.

Oh, AND, the end product...is water! How snazzy!

OH...AND!!!

VOTE FOR ZAIN 2020!!!!!
I had written hydrogen off due to the many technological issues with H2. The most glaring problem is being upside down on the energy equation, consuming more energy to produce H2 than the H2 produces when consumed in fuel cells. I've modified that opinion with certain algae species' ability to produce H2 under certain conditions. Scientists are currently researching how to scale up this algae growth process for what appears to finally be an energy efficient method of producing H2. Some day, hopefully soon.

Now if they can only solve the H2 storage problems, transporting H2 problems, make fuel cells cost under $100,000 dollars and solve the problem of the water exhaust freezing inside the 'tail pipe', plugging up the 'tail pipe' in cold weather, then we will eventually convert to H2. What?... the 'the chicken or the egg' problem? Who thinks that far ahead?

My vote? Well... pond scum of course!

Seriously... there is no single technology that will eliminate our petroleum addiction. All reasonably clean energy sources need to be developed. I know that biodiesel isn't the end all solution. But roughly 2/3s of the petroleum we consume is used for transportation. Biodiesel's high energy density, fuel efficiency, clean burning, relatively cheap production costs & no new technology required makes biodiesel the most pragmatic, cost efficient solution.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:44 PM   #267
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Default BDMan: Green music too?

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Tina suggested I start a living green thread.
Worth looking at just for the illustrations. Just think - what a concert you you could have in your garden. Concertos in the corn? Tuttis in the tomatoes? Symphonies in the squash patch? I always knew that a zucchini must be good for something.




From The Telegraph
Britain awaits the Vienna Vegetable Orchestra

By Laura Clout
Last Updated: 1:54am GMT 17/11/2007

They give the phrase 'playing with your food' a whole new meaning - and now the Vienna Vegetable Orchestra is coming to Britain.
# You tube: The Vienna Vegetable Orchestra
# More on the Austrian vegetable ensemble
# How about that: Tales of the bizarre from around the world

The unique ensemble, which performs on instruments made of fresh vegetables, will play at the Huddersfield Contemporary Music Festival next week.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...16/wveg116.xml
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:49 PM   #268
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Worth looking at just for the illustrations. Just think - what a concert you you could have in your garden. Concertos in the corn? Tuttis in the tomatoes? Symphonies in the squash patch? I always knew that a zucchini must be good for something....
When I lived in San Diego, I had more room to grow stuff. Each year I made sure I grew at least one 'experimental' vegetable. I was a member of the California Rare Fruit Growers & from reading their magazine, I never knew the world had a much greater number of different types fruits.

In San Diego I had a Fuyu persimmon, jujube (or Chinese date), pomegranite, kiwi, two types of grapes, plum, peach, blackberries, strawberries, fig, lemon & orange trees. I tried to grow Surinam cherry, cherimoya, banana, avocado & starfruit but I had too much frost for these more tropical fruit trees.

Looking at your photo, I remembered the documentary on Colony Collapse Disorder. Try to think of all flowers you know & all of the vegetables you know. Almost all are dependent on honey bees for pollination. The world would lose much of its color if bees became extinct, which is predicted to happen around 2035.

There are many, very concerned scientists all around the world working on CCD. They are also working on breeding a 'Super Bee'. Maybe Ho Ho will be surrounded in cacaphony of color if 'Super Bee' indeed becomes Super Pollinator.

If they don't get a handle on CCD, I hope all you guys like to eat gruel. Mmmmmm ... gruel!
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:08 AM   #269
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I turn off the water when I brush my teeth.

I buy orgnanic/natural products as much as I can.

I do not leave radios/tvs/lights on if they are not being used.

I try to fill up my gas tank after sundown. (I read somewhere about gas fumes/sun having effect on ozone & better fuel economy)

I also only run the dishwasher/washing machine/dryer at night. (again something I read thats supposed to be better at conserving energy)

I spend the extra money on energy saving appliances.

I buy energy saving light bulbs.

My husband burns most of our trash (we live in the country on some acreage).

We re-use glass containers instead of disposable plastics.

Thats about all I can do - I'd really love to have a house that ran self-suffienctly through solar & wind energy. There was some show I saw where their house was completely self-sufficient without electricity - it was awesome! The house re-used everything including water that went down the drain.
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:12 AM   #270
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There was a thing on my local news today about Solar Energy and how they estimated that by changing a house over to solar energy, it would take 20 years to recover the cost of conversion. That's a long term investment which I don't mind but seeing how we live in a society of soundbites and day trading how many people would be that willing to make a 20 year investment.
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:49 PM   #271
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There was a thing on my local news today about Solar Energy and how they estimated that by changing a house over to solar energy, it would take 20 years to recover the cost of conversion. That's a long term investment which I don't mind but seeing how we live in a society of soundbites and day trading how many people would be that willing to make a 20 year investment.
I figure it would be about 20K to install enough solar equipment to drop our electric bill to $0 each month. With incentives, that 20K could be reduced to 10-15k. We'll wait for the right incentives to become available before we convert, which is something we'd really, really like to do. I'd love to be off the grid, using green energy.

We're on a level-pay plan for the electrical, and we're paying $136 per month, which includes pool pump (energy hog. We're getting a new one in a week). So that's $1632/year. I guess payoff would be closer to, what, 7-10 years at 10-15K. Not too bad.
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:05 AM   #272
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[QUOTE=love dubh;270931]Bikes, people! OH HOW I LOVE THEE, BICYCLE!


And a good bike will only set you back 200 bucks. A tool kit? 20-30 bucks. You don't need insurance, but you'll want to consider a helmet and reflective materials if you ride at night.

Same can be said with a moped ( only a moped costs more), here in SC you don't need insurance. Takes little gas to power a moped...and they are BBW/SSBBW friendly.......might be hard for some of us bigger girls to peddle a bicycle.......
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Old 11-21-2007, 08:49 AM   #273
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[QUOTE=goldendiamondeyes;612427]
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Bikes, people! OH HOW I LOVE THEE, BICYCLE!




Same can be said with a moped ( only a moped costs more), here in SC you don't need insurance. Takes little gas to power a moped...and they are BBW/SSBBW friendly.......might be hard for some of us bigger girls to peddle a bicycle.......
What top speeds do mopeds get up to now?
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Old 11-21-2007, 01:15 PM   #274
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My friend has a Mo-Ped that tops out 40 MPH for a small engine one.
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Old 11-21-2007, 01:50 PM   #275
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[QUOTE=Paul Delacroix;612514]
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What top speeds do mopeds get up to now?
I am a SSBBW(425+) and I ride a Honda Ruckus and top speed I get on mine with my size is approx 30 miles a hour...beats hoffen it to town.....LOL
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