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Old 06-24-2013, 03:19 PM   #1
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Default I need a moan

First of all, I want to apologise for having this rant and moan, it is not usually my style.
I have a couple of FFAs over the years, I have become close to a couple over that time to the point at which a serious relationship was on the cards, both times they suddenly ended when they started telling their friends that they wanted to be with me. All of a sudden I was getting comments like " Why are you out of breath after this 12 mile hike?"
I get the feeling that I am always some kind of novelty. They wanted to indulge their little fat fantasy for 6 months and at the end it seems in their eyes perfectly acceptable to actually become quite nasty about my size. It is amazing how the same person can be very critical of me infront of their friends by saying "I am sorry he was slow to the top of that 800m hill" but then want to grope me all night because they adore the way I feel.
I just think now that I would rather be single than indulge someone short term and be emotionally fucked over.
Sorry for the rant, I needed to get it off my (ample) chest
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:23 PM   #2
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I won't lie, I was expecting this thread to have a much different basis.
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:05 PM   #3
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It's the old fantasy vs reality problem.

It's all fun and games until you realise how stigmatised being romantically attached to a social leper is etc etc
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:27 PM   #4
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It's the old fantasy vs reality problem.

It's all fun and games until you realise how stigmatised being romantically attached to a social leper is etc etc
It's like all these girls who are like "I love Big Bang Theory. Sheldon is adorable. I wish I could date him."

They say this without considering the reality of dating someone with OCD and severe social maladies. Are you still going to find him so cute when he refuses your embrace or insults your friends and doesn't even realize it? Would you be able to deal with him making emotional outbursts anytime you make a minor deviation from his strict routine?


Honestly, some women just look at a guy and are like "I can change him. Sure he's fat/quiet/mean-spirited/whatever now, but I can shape him into the perfect guy and he'll be all mine then." They view men like houses they can flip.

And when the fantasy fades and reality sets in (that the only person that can change someone is themselves and only if they really want to) they get bored and move on.

Guys do the same thing with severely troubled women. They think they're the white knight who can save her from all the bad guys in her past. Turns out she's toxic and she made them 'bad'. When you go into a relationship trying to change the other person it never ends well.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:41 PM   #5
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Well, as a FFA I can tell you that we aren't all like that and that a lot of people are flighty and prone to changing their minds about relationships and such for whatever reason. Sounds to me like you have been taken in by some not very nice ladies. It happens, FFA or not.
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:47 PM   #6
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I think two pretty key things have already been mentioned here:

1. Social stigma
2. Getting caught up in a fantasy and failing to recognize/being in denial of downsides.

Social pressure can be weird to deal with, considering certain mainstream attitudes are so prevalent and outright...uh...douchetastic. It's one thing being able to not give a fuck about what total strangers think. For many, though, it's totally different when it comes to people who mean something to you (like friends, family.) One would hope they'd have friends who are actually considerate and supportive, but I suppose that's more difficult to come by than one would hope.

So now we're dealing with the case of her friends disapproving of her being interested in someone bigger and most likely making negative comments of some variety.

Is it right for her to turn around and start making inconsiderate or demeaning comments to you, after having been potentially influenced by those comments? Certainly not. Maybe she didn't realize something like that (ie: walking more slowly) was a problem before. Maybe she noticed it, but didn't worry about it much. But that's no reason to start being a dick about it to you. And that's a totally valid reason to not want to be with someone/deem them someone you don't want to be with.

Is it right for her to apologize to her friends for it - 'it' being something like walking up a hill more slowly? I think we're a bit more into grey area here, personally. Sure, the ideal here is to have supportive friends, or at least friends who aren't prejudiced towards it. And yeah, it'd be wonderful if a reasonable conversation could help them be more neutral/positive. But let's say that's not the case, and she's still keen on keeping those friends. Part of me wants to say that it's socially gracious to apologize for something like that, and that you should interpret as totally benign and irrelevant to yourself. It's a downright uncomfortable position to be in and apologizing is an act of...placation towards said friends.

As an example: I cannot stand children. Not that I'm mean to them or don't get along with them well. But if I could opt to not be around them, I'd jump at it. And let's say I go out for a hike or a day-trip with a friend and she needs to being her child/children out of necessity. When they start hindering the trip, I'll tell myself that I shouldn't be annoyed. But am I still going to be annoyed? Yeah. And if my friend recognizes that I dislike children, I'd appreciate at least some acknowledgement of the fact.

Not that I'm out to defend that kind of behavior totally - I just think it's fair to acknowledge that it IS a tough place to be in if you don't have a fuck all sort of confidence about your preferences - especially in the face of friends that disapprove. And I still maintain that you absolutely shouldn't have to deal with someone who's critical about it to you, personally. I think it's something that you should have a discussion with a potential FFA partner about - sometimes you have the ability to give her the additional confidence she needs to prevent that social influence from being overwhelming.

TL;DR: People can really suck. And that can be difficult to handle.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:17 PM   #7
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As an example: I cannot stand children. Not that I'm mean to them or don't get along with them well. But if I could opt to not be around them, I'd jump at it.
Not to call you out, but all children? Because they're not all misbehaved.

For example, my nephew from 2.5 years old onwards was perfectly well mannered and would sit quietly when we took him to restaurants, stores, etc. He'd actually look at little demon 5-year-olds throwing tantrums like "what's your damage?".
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:28 PM   #8
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Not to call you out, but all children? Because they're not all misbehaved.

For example, my nephew from 2.5 years old onwards was perfectly well mannered and would sit quietly when we took him to restaurants, stores, etc. He'd actually look at little demon 5-year-olds throwing tantrums like "what's your damage?".
Heh, I realize they're all not misbehaved. And I can appreciate a well-mannered child. But I must admit that I'm just a terrible person and generally fail to enjoy being around ANY child. Even joyous/happy children irk me on some level. It was potentially hammered into my mind after years of bus-rides where young children would sit next to me and pester me about their fantastical observations for the entire ride, when I just wanted to go to sleep. And me being too polite and passive to tell them to go away. Humoring them wears me out like little else.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:55 PM   #9
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Heh, I realize they're all not misbehaved. And I can appreciate a well-mannered child. But I must admit that I'm just a terrible person and generally fail to enjoy being around ANY child. Even joyous/happy children irk me on some level. It was potentially hammered into my mind after years of bus-rides where young children would sit next to me and pester me about their fantastical observations for the entire ride, when I just wanted to go to sleep. And me being too polite and passive to tell them to go away. Humoring them wears me out like little else.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:08 PM   #10
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I think it's something that you should have a discussion with a potential FFA partner about - sometimes you have the ability to give her the additional confidence she needs to prevent that social influence from being overwhelming.

This cannot be more true. Society judges anyone and everyone, and it does so harshly. Not everyone can bear up to that - they just don't have it in them. Be her extra boost of confidence that makes her feel comfortable. There are so many ways to do it too- start picking up on the cues that make her uncomfortable and start to work out what things you can do to be there for her.

Personal anecdote time. I met my girls parents for the first time and she was nervous as hell. Her father is ex SWAT, in great shape, and is basically the classic American dad - fixes cars, plays sports with his buddies in the driveway, etc. The dude is like 55 years old and could run any young whippersnapper into the dirt.

Needless to say, she was terrified of her parents making it strange and awkward for her to bring my fat ass over and tell them how much she cares about me. know what I did? The moment her dad opened the door, I stuck my hand out, looked him in the eyes and said, "Hello Mr. Gleason. I am thrilled to finally meet you guys after hearing so much about you."

Just with that simple gesture alone I immediately took the pressure off my girl to introduce me and create that situation where they look you up and down and judge. I set the tone, I set the confidence level, and I let my girl use me as the shield basically. I won't lie and say meeting the parents went swimmingly, but I will say that at the end of the day we went home happy.

Sorry to use a personal anecdote I know they are lame, but well, it's all I got for ya.

P.S. - Take a gift for the mom when you meet your future girls parents. They love that shit
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:57 AM   #11
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Thank you all for your replies. Some great points have been made.
One of the things that hurt me quite a lot was how her very good friends did not give a dam about my size, they were happy for her that I made her happy. It was her more superficial work mates that caused most of the problems. I got on really well with her good friends and I am still in touch with them.
The whole walking up the hill slowly issues may seem insignificant, I need to provide it with some more context. My partner at the time is very fit, she runs 10km races, for my size I am quite fit as I do a lot of geological fieldwork, a whole group of us decided to go hiking for the day. I got to the summit of a medium size Scottish mountain about 5 minutes after she and two of her friends did, but still about 10 minutes before the last couple. I think her apology was comparing me to her ex who also ran competitively.
The while episode has left me a bit cynical. I do still talk to her but I am now really cautious.
On a side note I hate kids too, for some reason they adore me as I am cuddle and when forced too tell them about dinosaurs, volcaneos and space ships. My two hours of babysitting a 4 year old was one of the most stressful experiences of my life which I never want to repeat.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:57 AM   #12
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I won't lie, I was expecting this thread to have a much different basis.

SO WAS I......LOL

perhaps it across the pond terminology thing
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:24 AM   #13
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I think two pretty key things have already been mentioned here:

1. Social stigma
2. Getting caught up in a fantasy and failing to recognize/being in denial of downsides.

Social pressure can be weird to deal with, considering certain mainstream attitudes are so prevalent and outright...uh...douchetastic.
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My partner at the time is very fit, she runs 10km races, for my size I am quite fit as I do a lot of geological fieldwork, a whole group of us decided to go hiking for the day. I got to the summit of a medium size Scottish mountain about 5 minutes after she and two of her friends did, but still about 10 minutes before the last couple. I think her apology was comparing me to her ex who also ran competitively.
Not to perpetuate prejudices - but I've rarely met less tolerant, objective people than those into the whole 'runner' culture. It has lead me to believe that excessive running must lead to some form of reduced cerebral capacity - or at least the type of narrow-mindedness in this case pseudo-religious fanatics suffer from.

Your Ex would've probably behaved similiarly in any situation where you didn't meet these absurd fitness standards - be it for whatever reasons, like because you have a cold, smoke, talked to long with the others on the trail, didn't wear the right shoes... whatever.

Find yourself a nice FFA that's not a runner .... or a gym addict ... then you'll be fine.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:43 AM   #14
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Not to perpetuate prejudices - but I've rarely met less tolerant, objective people than those into the whole 'runner' culture. It has lead me to believe that excessive running must lead to some form of reduced cerebral capacity - or at least the type of narrow-mindedness in this case pseudo-religious fanatics suffer from.
Allow me to postulate based on nothing but my experiences with athletic types and my own biases:

If you're someone who's never really fit within the norm of physical beauty and attractiveness, your confidence, self-esteem and sense of self worth have to come from inner qualities; personality, intelligence, strength of character.

But if you're athletic or good looking, your confidence and self worth may very well be tied exclusively to how far you can run, how good your hair is, etc. When that frames your world view, you begin to project it on to other people. "He can't run. She's ugly. They have low value as human beings".

Beauty =/= goodness. It's hardly a revolutionary concept.

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Old 06-25-2013, 05:52 AM   #15
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Well, there are good runners out there. Like... say... Amaranthine.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:58 AM   #16
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Well, there are good runners out there. Like... say... Amaranthine.
Yes, but Amaranthine also comes across is fairly intelligent. She's obviously got other things going on besides her running.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:59 AM   #17
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Yes, but Amaranthine also comes across is fairly intelligent. She's obviously got other things going on besides her running.
Eh..... I wouldn't be so sure!
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:22 AM   #18
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Eh..... I wouldn't be so sure!
Eh...not sure what you're implying. That she's unintelligent or that she's got no depth beyond "I'm a runner"?
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:43 AM   #19
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Eh...not sure what you're implying. That she's unintelligent or that she's got no depth beyond "I'm a runner"?
Both. She's like...... Forrest Gump.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:47 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Sasquatch! View Post
Both. She's like...... Forrest Gump.
Why don't you love me, Jennaaaay.

Life's like a box of chocolates - generally pretty unsatisfactory after you pick out the coconut one and the caramel one. And the cherry one, if they bothered to include it.


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Originally Posted by tankyguy View Post
But if you're athletic or good looking, your confidence and self worth may very well be tied exclusively to how far you can run, how good your hair is, etc. When that frames your world view, you begin to project it on to other people. "He can't run. She's ugly. They have low value as human beings".

Beauty =/= goodness. It's hardly a revolutionary concept.

I really only sprint up hills. And my hair is mostly a mess. Ergo, I've been forced to cultivate some sort of personality.

Interestingly, apparently most people believe the exact opposite. It's called the Halo effect. If someone's physically attractive, someone is more likely to attribute other positive characteristics to them (like intelligence, benevolence, etc.) Frankly, this is one of those psychological things I've always found completely absurd.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:13 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
Why don't you love me, Jennaaaay.
I may not be a smart man...but I make unrealistically astute observations about the human condition.


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I really only sprint up hills. And my hair is mostly a mess. Ergo, I've been forced to cultivate some sort of personality.
And a dry sense of humor it seems.


Quote:
Interestingly, apparently most people believe the exact opposite. It's called the Halo effect. If someone's physically attractive, someone is more likely to attribute other positive characteristics to them (like intelligence, benevolence, etc.) Frankly, this is one of those psychological things I've always found completely absurd.
Well, in my case I hadn't looked at your profile picture until Sasquatch! called you a Gump. I said you came across as fairly intelligent because you use words like 'benevolence' and know the Halo effect has nothing to do with the Xbox.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:47 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Sasquatch! View Post
Well, there are good runners out there. Like... say... Amaranthine.
Let's be precise here: I didn't write 'runners'! I wrote people who fully identify with the whole 'runner culture', who use running as a surrogate ideology or religion. The OP's Ex from his description seems to fit perfectly into that category.

From what I've read from Amaranthine so far, nothing would make me suspect she adheres to any form of totalitarian ideology. After all, she attends philosophy cocktail parties....
Normal running as a normal form of exercise is fine.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:20 PM   #23
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I have my suspicion that some people get warped by years of schooling. After all, all the way through school if you are a good girl or boy--being reasonably studious, paying attention, doing what you are told—you get rewarded regularly with decent marks, favourable comments on report cards, and feedback that you are a good girl or boy. I’m convinced that some people go on to every higher degrees purely because they are told that is what good students do, and they are scared to veer away from being that good student (note: "some" I’m not saying that is why most people go on to higher degrees).

But eventually school has to end, and then what do you do in order to get that regular feedback that you are being good? Running is a great one, because you can gradually increase your distances and speeds, people congratulate you, people may comment that they are so impressed that they see you out running every day, your one or two per year races (be they 10km, half marathon, full marathon….) take the place of final exams, where you can prove your ‘studiousness’ by the fact that you are prepared and do well on the big day.

(I did some running in high school, by the way, first cross country and track teams, later solely for myself. I think running can do all sorts of good things for a body and can be enjoyable. It is more the organization that a lot of people put around running that turns me off. Then again, I tend not to be into the formalization of fun in general).

ETA: Back to the initial post, it sounds like you met FFA who were not willing to 'fess up to their preferences, fully, in front of others. That is never a good situation, you always want a partner who celebrates who you are, not tolerates it, and especially not who belittles it. Did you ever have discussions with these women about what they said, and how this made you feel? (I'm not saying it would have made a difference if you did, just curious)
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:40 PM   #24
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In the athletic culture, motivation often comes in the form of berating or criticizing harshly. Think about the locker room during halftime - they aren't usually holding hands and singing Kumbayah in there. People in this culture, sometimes I think they learn that this is the only way to motivate people - that it is normal, and not stupid and backwards.

It may be this young lady felt she was doing you a favor by criticizing you - thinking she might motivate you to improve. In this way, it may almost be a sign of caring for you, though a warped one.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:29 AM   #25
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First of all, I want to apologise for having this rant and moan, it is not usually my style.
I have a couple of FFAs over the years, I have become close to a couple over that time to the point at which a serious relationship was on the cards, both times they suddenly ended when they started telling their friends that they wanted to be with me. All of a sudden I was getting comments like " Why are you out of breath after this 12 mile hike?"
I get the feeling that I am always some kind of novelty. They wanted to indulge their little fat fantasy for 6 months and at the end it seems in their eyes perfectly acceptable to actually become quite nasty about my size. It is amazing how the same person can be very critical of me infront of their friends by saying "I am sorry he was slow to the top of that 800m hill" but then want to grope me all night because they adore the way I feel.
I just think now that I would rather be single than indulge someone short term and be emotionally fucked over.
Sorry for the rant, I needed to get it off my (ample) chest
I know i am possibly a little late on this thread and topic but i wanted to add my say anyway. I am currently with a BHM who i love to bits. I know he has had several relationships in the past that have ended something similar to yours. I don't think any of them have been with a FFA . Women are mainly attracted to his amazing bubbly personality. He always has a smile and is always able to light up a room and make anyone he is talking to feel so very special. The problem seemed to be that they really weren't happy with the reality of dating someone his size and in a lot of cases they just seemed to string him along. I know on more than one occasion some of the women has dated have promised him everything and took advantage of his generous and kind nature only to run off the second things seemed to be getting serious. I hate that he was used so much and it really angers me to know he was treated that way. What i'm saying is it sounds like you have been unlucky too to meet people like that and there really are some genuine people out here too who will love the person they fall in love with regardless of what other people say or think
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