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Old 05-09-2014, 12:23 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Yakatori View Post
But he was only asking to figure out if she was racist. And to determine just how much so. Shouldn't that make it okay?
people who are racist will let you know if you spend any amount time around them. meanwhile having to throw out the perfect black specimen to try and make the idea palatable is NOT the most enlightened thinking either.

what if i asked my black male friends:

would you date a white woman if she was absolutely everything you ever wanted in a woman. how does that sound.

but to go further with the question: if anybody is absolutely everything you want in a man or a woman wouldn't that automatically include their being whatever race they are anyway. the question doesn't even make sense.

as much as people are struggling to you can't show any example where it makes sense unless you assume inferiority--at THAT is the problem..
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Old 05-09-2014, 12:29 AM   #252
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I do not know why any black man would allow himself to be treated as a black mark on a white woman's past. I would NEVER tolerate a white, Hispanic or Asian American woman treating me like I am a black mark on her past. It is difficult for me to understand the low self esteem of black men who allow non-black women to treat them in such a degrading way. If a woman enjoys my company in private but is ashamed for her friends, family, co-workers and church family to see that she and I are dating, then she has a serious problem. I will not tolerate it; no self-respecting black man should. For this forum, let me add that no BBW should tolerate a man keeping her in the closet.



exactly. absolutely nobody should accept being treated as or seen as less. it's not okay for people to treat you that way because there is nothing wrong with any of us.
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:36 AM   #253
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i can't believe i have to explain it lol. all of our social interactions around race influence social justice as well. if you feel one way personally and have the power to make any kind of policy decision either through a vote or a power position , how you feel and what you are allowed to get away with shapes it. people often think life is compartmentalized but it isn't. that's their mistake.
Well then with you must carry the weight of the world with each dating decision you make.
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Old 05-09-2014, 04:15 PM   #254
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I added to the BAGL rep count for you as well.
What th.... I can't Rep you either! BAGL Rep is the best.
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Old 05-10-2014, 07:59 AM   #255
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another racist assumption in that question. he has to be absolutely everything she wants in a guy before she can even consider it? i would run very very far away from anyone asking such a stupid question. sounds like two people who deserve each other.
It's hard for me to understand why any man would ask a woman something like this. Why should a black man have to be everything a SWF wants before she will date him? This sounds like the man does not think very highly of himself. If a woman told me she expected this of me, I would drop her faster than a hot potato and meet someone else.




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Old 05-10-2014, 08:00 AM   #256
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But he was only asking to figure out if she was racist. And to determine just how much so. Shouldn't that make it okay?
Women who are racist/racially insecure will reveal themselves pretty quickly. There is no need to ask them stupid stuff like that.



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Old 05-10-2014, 08:07 AM   #257
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people who are racist will let you know if you spend any amount time around them. meanwhile having to throw out the perfect black specimen to try and make the idea palatable is NOT the most enlightened thinking either.

what if i asked my black male friends:

would you date a white woman if she was absolutely everything you ever wanted in a woman. how does that sound.

but to go further with the question: if anybody is absolutely everything you want in a man or a woman wouldn't that automatically include their being whatever race they are anyway. the question doesn't even make sense.

as much as people are struggling to you can't show any example where it makes sense unless you assume inferiority--at THAT is the problem..

The question itself is racist. It presupposes that the black man is unworthy; therefore, he would have to be everything the woman wanted for her to even consider him.

I have found that prospective girlfriends will reveal their racial insecurities quickly without me bringing up race. It's a crazy obsession among people in this country, and it is shameful that in 2014 some people still believe that interracial dating is taboo/hurtful to one's family members.

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Old 05-10-2014, 09:44 PM   #258
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The question itself is racist. It presupposes that the black man is unworthy; therefore, he would have to be everything the woman wanted for her to even consider him.

I have found that prospective girlfriends will reveal their racial insecurities quickly without me bringing up race. It's a crazy obsession among people in this country, and it is shameful that in 2014 some people still believe that interracial dating is taboo/hurtful to one's family members.


yes, unfortunately, people always talk about and focus on race here. you can't get them to shut up about it most of the time. they want to know if you like white guys. it's more about whether you like them since you aren't dating every last white guy in the world when you go out with them--as if they are all absolutely the same. maybe they think all black men are the same too.

even in friendships it can be an issue. i remember there was a group of people i thought would be friends that i basically ended up distancing myself from. they automatically assumed it was about race. but really it was only because i could not trust them as individuals and they had done things to make that highly obvious. it had absolutely nothing to do with color but character. sometimes people just might want to have any excuse other than being personally unacceptable.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:48 PM   #259
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Well then with you must carry the weight of the world with each dating decision you make.
not at all. it makes life so much easier when you focus on emotionally intelligent people whose intellect and behavior you can respect.
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:32 AM   #260
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You've seen the treatment stupid guys get from me. I don't like assholes.
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yes, unfortunately, people always talk about and focus on race here. you can't get them to shut up about it most of the time. they want to know if you like white guys. it's more about whether you like them since you aren't dating every last white guy in the world when you go out with them--as if they are all absolutely the same. maybe they think all black men are the same too.

even in friendships it can be an issue. i remember there was a group of people i thought would be friends that i basically ended up distancing myself from. they automatically assumed it was about race. but really it was only because i could not trust them as individuals and they had done things to make that highly obvious. it had absolutely nothing to do with color but character. sometimes people just might want to have any excuse other than being personally unacceptable.
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Old 05-11-2014, 09:03 AM   #261
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You've seen the treatment stupid guys get from me. I don't like assholes.
You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Swordchick again.


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Old 05-11-2014, 09:27 AM   #262
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Women who are racist/racially insecure will reveal themselves pretty quickly. There is no need to ask them stupid stuff like that.




I didn't ask the question off the bat. When you suspect that someone may be a racist jerk its kind of fun to lead them out onto to limb from which there's no return.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:09 AM   #263
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You're absolutely right. It will (and should) never be okay. Don't accept it.
So what and so, what now?
Hatred is wrong; while correct, is way too simplistic to use as a platform. People are obviously more complex than that. You can't force them to believe what you believe (no matter how right you may be) so in the end, it's just an opinion. If you don't understand your opposition how do you expect for the opposition to understand and relate to you and to elicit change in them?
Without change...the opposition wins.
after all of these years many people of color here in the US understand the opposition quite well. they are often very public about their prejudices. their ideas are a part of the public psyche. it's no secret. the biggest problem we tend to have is that people who feel they aren't racist don't understand that deeply racist ideas have penetrated their world to such and extent that they don't even feel they are racist.

remember how quick you and others were to come down when i repeated what white female friends had said regarding white males they actually knew and the kinds of character they actually displayed to them?

now, suddenly it's just fine to indicate it's okay somehow to cast ALL black men a white woman has ever dated at all in a negative light without reference to their character or any actions they may have displayed at all? just being black at all is enough to condemn them somehow?
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:19 AM   #264
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I didn't ask the question off the bat. When you suspect that someone may be a racist jerk its kind of fun to lead them out onto to limb from which there's no return.
don't play it like a joke now. you already said earlier that you thought it was perfectly fine to ask a white woman if she dated black men in the past for other reasons. and even the formulation of your question that was supposed to be "fun" shows how willing you are to put black men in an inferior position for your personal amusement. would you find it funny if i did the same to white males or heaven help me BHMs. somebody could always go around asking racist black females or sizist females period if they would ever date a white man/fat man if he were a perfect specimen in every other way and giving them a reason to pontificate negatively on that. that would be very respectful to white males/BHMs right? if you already knew she was racist you didn't need to throw black men under a bus after that. you wanted to hear it. even if you felt it was wrong somewhere deep down it probably made you feel better about yourself. that's the problem with racism. people who intellectually know better still sometimes secretly enjoy having an opportunity to be "better" than someone else.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:27 AM   #265
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Default Shame.. I wasn't going to post here anymore, but one last post..

It is a shame that this thread that could have been used to clear up bad images and clarify some racial differences has devolved to "white bashing" and how all white men are scared of big black penis"

Instead of perpetuating wrong ideas and thoughts and feelings, why could we not have expressed things without resorting to bashing each other...

Shame...
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:12 PM   #266
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It is a shame that this thread that could have been used to clear up bad images and clarify some racial differences has devolved to "white bashing" and how all white men are scared of big black penis"

Instead of perpetuating wrong ideas and thoughts and feelings, why could we not have expressed things without resorting to bashing each other...

Shame...
yes, like saying it's okay to take a black man as a negative out of hand with no reference to his character or behavior at all. *sigh*
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:50 PM   #267
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it's all about what you do when you are told. once you know better do better. a person has to make a conscious choice to remain in racist behavior. :

The Science of Your Racist Brain
Neuroscientist David Amodio on subconscious racial prejudice and why we're still responsible for our actions.
—By Indre Viskontas and Chris Mooney | Fri May 9, 2014 6:00 AM ED

http://www.motherjones.com/environme...rain-on-racism

When you take a look at the emerging science of what motivates people to behave in a racist or prejudiced way, though, matters quickly grow complicated. In fact, if there's one cornerstone finding when it comes to the psychological underpinnings of prejudice, it's that out-and-out or "explicit" racists—like Sterling—are just one part of the story. Perhaps far more common are cases of so-called "implicit" prejudice, where people harbor subconscious biases, of which they may not even be aware, but that come out in controlled psychology experiments.

Much of the time, these are not the sort of people whom we would normally think of as racists. "They might say they think it's wrong to be prejudiced," explains New York University neuroscientist David Amodio, an expert on the psychology of intergroup bias. Amodio says that white participants in his studies "might write down on a questionnaire that they are positive in their attitudes towards black people…but when you give them a behavioral measure, of how they respond to pictures of black people, compared with white people, that's when we start to see the effects come out."

Welcome to the world of implicit racial biases, which research suggests are all around us, and which can be very difficult for even the most well-intentioned person to control. But that doesn't mean we can't do anything about them: We can draw attention to the insidious nature of these subconscious influences, and we can work to prevent them from exerting harmful effects not only on interpersonal behavior, but also on policy, employment practices, and public life. That's what Amodio's research (and that of many other social psychologists and neuroscientists who study prejudice) is centrally aimed at achieving.

And thus, while our society has made progress when it comes to matters of race, subliminal categorization tendencies still permeate human behavior. This much has been demonstrated in the lab multiple times, but here are some noteworthy findings on the psychology of implicit racial bias:

1. Associating skin color with physical, rather than mental, abilities: In a 2006 study of more than 150 white college students, Amodio and his colleague Patricia Devine asked them to categorize words as either pleasant (such as "peace," "heaven," and "honor") or unpleasant ("cancer," "vomit," "poverty") and as either mental ("math," "brainy," "scientist") or physical ("basketball," "agile," "dance"). Before each categorization task, the subjects were shown black or white faces. The result? These largely liberal college students were faster at categorizing unpleasant and physical words when shown a black face, and faster at categorizing pleasant and mental words when they were preceded by a white face. Once again, implicit biases shone through in the results.

2. Keeping their distance: Amodio and Devine then went a step further, seeking to identify other ways in which a subtle bias against members of a different race might manifest themselves. So in a new experiment, they told study participants that they were going to work, with a partner, to answer a variety of questions. In fact, when the subjects first arrived for the study, their name was called out along with that of their supposed partner (who had not yet arrived). The partner's name was either "Tyrone Washington" or "Darnell Stewart."

After this cue had been planted, the participants were then asked to decide which study tasks they would do and which their partner should do, after being informed that some of the tasks involved answering questions similar to those found in the math and verbal sections of the SATs, and others involved answering questions about sports and popular culture. Sure enough, study participants who had shown higher implicit bias were more likely to assign their (presumably black) partner to answer the questions about sports and popular culture, rather than academics.

But that was just the beginning: Then the study subjects were taken to a waiting room, and told that their partner had arrived but had just gone to the bathroom. A coat and backpack, supposedly belonging to the partner, was placed on a chair and the study participant was told to sit and wait. Once again, the unconscious bias came out: Subjects who had ranked higher on implicit biases now showed different seating choices. "They'll sit further, in a row of chairs, away from the jacket and backpack of what they think is a black person," says Amodio.

Among white doctors, as their implicit bias increased, their medical decision-making about black patients also changed.

3. Not voting for Obama: In a very different context, these tendencies also cropped up in the 2008 presidential election, pitting a white candidate (John McCain) against a black one (Barack Obama). In a 2009 study, B. Keith Payne of the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill and his colleagues compared explicit and implicit bias scores for a large number of individuals with their self-reported voting behavior in the election. Not surprisingly, the conscious racists, those showing explicit anti-black bias, tended to vote against Obama and for McCain. But after controlling for explicit bias, the study found that the remaining implicit bias had a surprising effect. It didn't push voters towards McCain, but it did take votes away from Obama, because these people either tended to favor a third-party candidate or were less likely to vote at all.

4. Racial bias at the doctor's office: Implicit bias can also affect how white doctors treat black medical patients. In one disturbing 2007 study, 220 medical residents took an implicit association test, to detect subtle racial bias, and also read a medical history of a patient (either black or white) experiencing chest pain, with clinical details suggestive of a heart attack. The result was that among white doctors, as their implicit bias increased, their medical decision-making about black patients changed as well. In particular, their likelihood of treating a black patient with thrombolysis, a drug treatment to reduce blood clots (and prevent heart attacks), decreased. In other words, they were less likely to administer a potentially life-saving treatment.

And that's just the beginning. Other studies have shown that doctors are more likely to recommend and perform unnecessary surgeries on racial and ethnic minority patients than on their white counterparts. They've also shown that Latina and Chinese women are less likely to receive hormone therapy (which decreases the risk of recurrence of breast cancer) than white women.

The problem is that because our culture is filled with racial stereotypes, many of us "learn" inaccurate and prejudicial information about those who look different. And the amygdala operates extremely rapidly, long before our conscious thoughts have time to react. Thus, the operations of this and related brain regions, "if left unchecked, they might lead to the expression of some bias in a way that you don't intend," says Amodio.
Fortunately, the amygdala alone doesn't drive all of our behavior. Our brains have evolved such that we have a large and highly-complex frontal cortex, which allows us to inhibit impulses, make complicated decisions and behave in socially appropriate ways. It's the frontal cortex that helps most of us tamp down our gut reactions and, in our conscious behaviors, strive to treat members of all races equally. "The human mind is extremely adept at control and regulation," Amodio says, "and the fact that we have these biases should really be seen as an opportunity for us to be aware and do something about them."

That's why, in the end, Amodio doesn't think that the mere existence of implicit biases provides any excuse for the display of overt or explicit racism. After all, stereotypes are ubiquitous. We all perceive them in our culture, but we do not all act upon them. In other words, we have the ability—and the responsibility—to regulate our own behavior.

"I don't really think humans have any good excuses for acting on their automatic biases," says Amodio.
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Old 05-11-2014, 02:52 PM   #268
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yes, unfortunately, people always talk about and focus on race here. you can't get them to shut up about it most of the time. they want to know if you like white guys. it's more about whether you like them since you aren't dating every last white guy in the world when you go out with them--as if they are all absolutely the same. maybe they think all black men are the same too.

even in friendships it can be an issue. i remember there was a group of people i thought would be friends that i basically ended up distancing myself from. they automatically assumed it was about race. but really it was only because i could not trust them as individuals and they had done things to make that highly obvious. it had absolutely nothing to do with color but character. sometimes people just might want to have any excuse other than being personally unacceptable.
I pity them. Their mentality is limited and their experiences are limited. If they would just drop the fixation with race and focus on the person they are dealing with, they would be happier.




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Old 05-11-2014, 02:57 PM   #269
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after all of these years many people of color here in the US understand the opposition quite well. they are often very public about their prejudices. their ideas are a part of the public psyche. it's no secret. the biggest problem we tend to have is that people who feel they aren't racist don't understand that deeply racist ideas have penetrated their world to such and extent that they don't even feel they are racist.

remember how quick you and others were to come down when i repeated what white female friends had said regarding white males they actually knew and the kinds of character they actually displayed to them?

now, suddenly it's just fine to indicate it's okay somehow to cast ALL black men a white woman has ever dated at all in a negative light without reference to their character or any actions they may have displayed at all? just being black at all is enough to condemn them somehow?
I have never understood why it is that behaviors done by white men are condoned but black men are castigated and punished for that same behavior.


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Old 05-11-2014, 03:01 PM   #270
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It is a shame that this thread that could have been used to clear up bad images and clarify some racial differences has devolved to "white bashing" and how all white men are scared of big black penis"

Instead of perpetuating wrong ideas and thoughts and feelings, why could we not have expressed things without resorting to bashing each other...

Shame...
You don't have to participate in this discussion. We are having a truthful, honest discussion of race. The statement you make about white bashing seeks to confuse the issue. God knows all the times that black men are blamed for everything that is wrong with this country. As a fellow person of color, you should be working to stop that instead of trying to go along with it.

Unfortunately, we still live in a nation whose dominant population, Caucasians, is not yet ready to accept the results of the Civil War--or that African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans and Asian Americans are first-class American citizens.



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Old 05-11-2014, 03:03 PM   #271
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don't play it like a joke now. you already said earlier that you thought it was perfectly fine to ask a white woman if she dated black men in the past for other reasons. and even the formulation of your question that was supposed to be "fun" shows how willing you are to put black men in an inferior position for your personal amusement. would you find it funny if i did the same to white males or heaven help me BHMs. somebody could always go around asking racist black females or sizist females period if they would ever date a white man/fat man if he were a perfect specimen in every other way and giving them a reason to pontificate negatively on that. that would be very respectful to white males/BHMs right? if you already knew she was racist you didn't need to throw black men under a bus after that. you wanted to hear it. even if you felt it was wrong somewhere deep down it probably made you feel better about yourself. that's the problem with racism. people who intellectually know better still sometimes secretly enjoy having an opportunity to be "better" than someone else.
It is really shameful that people who know that another person is behaving in a racist way will refuse to speak up and instead choose to go along with the situation in order to be accepted.


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Old 05-11-2014, 03:25 PM   #272
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I have never understood why it is that behaviors done by white men are condoned but black men are castigated and punished for that same behavior.


or that being back alone with absolutely no behavior discussed is enough
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Old 05-11-2014, 04:19 PM   #273
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Racist white men are scared of a big black penis. They should be scared of stupidity. If there was "white bashing" going in this thread, people would be infracted and this thread would be closed.
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Old 05-11-2014, 04:56 PM   #274
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You don't have to participate in this discussion. We are having a truthful, honest discussion of race. The statement you make about white bashing seeks to confuse the issue. God knows all the times that black men are blamed for everything that is wrong with this country. As a fellow person of color, you should be working to stop that instead of trying to go along with it.

Unfortunately, we still live in a nation whose dominant population, Caucasians, is not yet ready to accept the results of the Civil War--or that African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans and Asian Americans are first-class American citizens.



Before you say that there hasn't been any bashing, you should read the whole thread. As a person of color, I chose to accept people for who they are. Some are bigots and so when they show their colors I chose not to associate with them. But to negate someone just because they make a statement or ask a question out of curiosity and not bigotry, that just seems foolish to me.

I like to ask people questions ans understand where they are coming from first. Because then I am making a decision about a person because of who they are, not because I misunderstood, or made an incorrect assumption about why they were asking the question or making the statement.

Personally, when my mother was alive, i didn't get serious about anyone that did not speak spanish. Too me, if the guy I was dating could not have a conversation with my mother who spoke mostly spanish, without me there to translate, then he was not someone I was going to get serious about. You can say that it is racist, but it was my preference. Did that mean i was not dating people of other races, no.. it just meant I was not going to get serious with them. for me asking them if they dated hispanic women before was a given for me. Even asking hispanic men. Not all hispanic men born in NYC speak spanish, and not all hispanic men date hispanic women. So those are questions I needed to know ahead of time. Everyone has deal breakers, a guy who didn't speak spanish was one of my deal breakers. I wanted to let them know upfront that it would not get serious. There is nothing wrong with that.

But like I said.. sad that this has come down to bashing...
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:05 PM   #275
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don't play it like a joke now. you already said earlier that you thought it was perfectly fine to ask a white woman if she dated black men in the past for other reasons. and even the formulation of your question that was supposed to be "fun" shows how willing you are to put black men in an inferior position for your personal amusement. would you find it funny if i did the same to white males or heaven help me BHMs. somebody could always go around asking racist black females or sizist females period if they would ever date a white man/fat man if he were a perfect specimen in every other way and giving them a reason to pontificate negatively on that. that would be very respectful to white males/BHMs right? if you already knew she was racist you didn't need to throw black men under a bus after that. you wanted to hear it. even if you felt it was wrong somewhere deep down it probably made you feel better about yourself. that's the problem with racism. people who intellectually know better still sometimes secretly enjoy having an opportunity to be "better" than someone else.

Woah there -- I know you have a habit of drawing unsupported conclusions but this is ridiculous. First, I didn't throw anyone under any bus. How the hell is probing the limits of someone's superficial tolerance (the woman in question thought of herself as liberal) racist? Second, sometimes its important to get people to actually articulate their unsavory feelings. Third, I'm of mixed heritage. This particular woman assumed I was white which made outing her enjoyable (although knowing she makes her living teaching brown and black kids dampened this somewhat). So yes I did have a moment where I felt superior -- to her -- not anyone else.
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