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Old 04-19-2014, 06:58 AM   #101
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Most of the time that type of questioning is racist, especially when you ask about one race of people as if they are not human. If you want to find out about a person, you must spend time with them. The world has changed so much that race & culture doesn't say much about an individual anyways.
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Old 04-19-2014, 07:54 AM   #102
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Southern white guys tend to be the ones to ask me this kind of question. I have never been asked these types of questions face-to-face. I've lived in Detroit for four years as a flabulous, fat woman and had never been asked ANYTHING like that. Even by the black guys that tried to hollar at me. They'd just be like "Hey, you're looking good!" And that's it lol
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Old 04-19-2014, 08:33 AM   #103
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I was asked this question one time when I was single and on the bbw scene. He let it be known that, in his opinion, white women who date black men are of a lower echelon. It was offensive to say the least.
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:51 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by swordchick View Post
Most of the time that type of questioning is racist, especially when you ask about one race of people as if they are not human. If you want to find out about a person, you must spend time with them. The world has changed so much that race & culture doesn't say much about an individual anyways.
indeed, if it ever really did when it comes to true character
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:00 PM   #105
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But, the point is, it's all kind of relative. Relative to the specific relationship between the two people, their mutual expectations, where it's headed, etc.. I would agree from the p.o.v. that it's uncomfortable for lots of people to go into a whole lot of candid detail about past-relationships. (I am one of them). But, I have yet to encounter the one who said me, straight away, "You know, I don't really care about whatever you did in previous relationships or your past..." Certainly, it's something solid relationships can build towards. However, even then....

Are you really genuinely curious? Because, from my point of view, it looks like you've already made up your own mind.

Remember, also, that the idea of this question coming up straight away is as much the result of what various thread-responders have inferred, based partially off of their own experiences. More so than you can say that FatAndProud has put it up there explicitly.

For my part, if I'm in a situation where a person I don't know too well is throwing me obvious curve-balls or any questions that just seem to come out of left-field, I tend to take that like being presented with a Rorschach of sorts.

Now, I'm not saying that this is the right thing to do, coming at people with that kind of gamesmanship. That this is how to act towards someone you actually like. (As if that's going to win anyone over). Quite the opposite. In fact, I would say, in one form or another, too many of us engage in too much of this. And too early-on. A first date or a first meeting (either first offline meeting or in a club or something like that) is not a job interview. You shouldn't spend so much of the time, if any, qualifying the other person.

Ideally, it's more about being emotionally present. In the moment. Having a good time. Making the best of the situation, regardless of the circumstances.
Then, maybe, take some time afterward to reflect on it. Think on how you feel around the other person.

However, c'mon, it's not like this isn't what lots of people do: So, enough about me...what do you think of this band Nickelback?...If you were.....a tree?. (Or, for another example, take a look at your own last post. What exactly are you trying to do there?)

And, in that sense, it's all sort of arbitrary, what is the first or second or third or fourth question you ask someone. Or what they ask you. For some people, topics like race or politics are this huge, loaded issue. Others not so much. But everyone has prejudices, preconceptions. Levers. (In my experience, it's generally those who're the least self-aware, the most in denial about their own issues which are the most strongly determined by them; but no less because of their transparency for that, that it's so easy for another person, a perfect stranger to pick-up on that, to exploit it...) e.g., If someone brings up something like...fluoridation....or vaccines....straight-away, then I guess, for me, it could signal something about the future of the relationship, or limitations thereof.

However, I'm not the one to just immediately start freaking-out right then & there on the spot. After all, they could be joking, right? They could be testing-me, somehow. Actually, come to think of it, to tell you the truth, depending on how convincingly they carried it off (both the bit and the reveal), I just might have a laugh about it. A great big one.

Basically, a person can be perfectly-right or wrong, or somewhere in between, or none of those things, just in order to be right or wrong for me.

Do you think that might have something to do with a difference in how Northerners and Southerns deal with the general topic of race? Particularly as how it might tend to play out in the mixed company of both blacks & whites and men & women. Could it be that "the fat community" or; for that matter, any type of online-connected social organization; might have the unintended or indirect effect of bridging people of different regions in a manner in which they weren't previously networked?
nope. rude is rude. whether you hide behind some kind of anonymity online or not. whether you've ever met someone different from you or not. it's not rocket science. it's how people really feel and it only makes sense to note it and pay attention. often people who have a tendency toward prejudice don't stop at having just one. people have always claimed ignorance but they know darned well when they are being cruel and hateful versus when they are being kind. the big tell is when someone does the same toward them and they don't like it.
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:35 PM   #106
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Default ^But rude and racist are NOT the same thing...

Moreover, even as rude is rude; clearly, some rude people don't care too much (if they can even be said to fully realize it) about what's rude until what they're putting out there comes back to them. At least that's what Tony Gaskins tells us. Actually, while we're still on that:

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Originally Posted by swordchick View Post
...as if they are not human. If you want to find out about a person, you must spend time with them....
Is it at all rude the way Gaskins continually refers to women as females....doesn't that kind of strike you as odd?

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"...racism is a character flaw..... irrationality doesn't stop at any kind of borders it only starts there."
Yes. But so is jumping to conclusions. And this whole idea of having to react to things a certain way.

Forgot to reference this before as well.

Last edited by Yakatori; 04-19-2014 at 06:40 PM. Reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiI0S9QV0gI @1:14 also...
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Old 04-19-2014, 07:34 PM   #107
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Moreover, even as rude is rude; clearly, some rude people don't care too much (if they can even be said to fully realize it) about what's rude until what they're putting out there comes back to them. At least that's what Tony Gaskins tells us. Actually, while we're still on that:

Is it at all rude the way Gaskins continually refers to women as females....doesn't that kind of strike you as odd?

Yes. But so is jumping to conclusions. And this whole idea of having to react to things a certain way.

Forgot to reference this before as well.
i'm still waiting for a rational reason why someone would need to know the race of my previous dates. it would help me to understand the position a lot better if some examples were provided.
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Old 04-19-2014, 09:04 PM   #108
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WE were never on Tony Gaskins. You have an issue with him. Take it up with him. I am not offended by you putting the use of words "rude" or "racist" as if I said it. I do not want to deal with anyone who is racist, rude or just an asshole.
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:16 AM   #109
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WE were never on Tony Gaskins. You have an issue with him. Take it up with him. I am not offended by you putting the use of words "rude" or "racist" as if I said it. I do not want to deal with anyone who is racist, rude or just an asshole.
i couldn't understand that one either.

neither do i. i don't care what color they are. if they're a racist and expect me to be that way too they are OUT period. i have too many friends and other people i love of all races to take that mess.
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:56 AM   #110
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How many times does the OP and other women have to say this has happened to them and that they find the behavior racist & offensive? It is real! There is no need to sugar-coat it.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:50 AM   #111
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Default Not denying the reality of anything...

Nor sugar-coating.

I mentioned Gaskins specifically because of how one of the things he talks about has to do with this idea of what you put out there, how you behave on & offline, etc...has some effect of how people come at you. That "giving up too much ground" (as he describes it) informs how people approach you. And, of course, he means men in particular vis a vis how they look-at, approach, & ultimately respond to women. I was not too familiar with him until superodalisque cited him in another thread; so, maybe, I'm reading it all wrong. But, since he's a point of reference that's obviously familiar to her, I figured it would be perfectly appropriate to respond to HER (note: "^" in subject line]) using that as an example?

Of course, none of that is to say that it's a license to be rude. Or that it makes what's normally rude or boorish something other than that. However, for those of us interested in explanations of what attracts a certain element, it's certainly one point of view.

More so, how it pertains, & perhaps a bit too obliquely, to what YOU (swordchick) said has to do with how Gaskins repeatedly uses the term female in place of the more natural-sounding (to me, anyway) woman or women. (Actually, I think, even girl or chick or young-lady would be somewhat of an upgrade; since, to be fair, he also talks about what he calls grown-boys) As if, like you'd just said, to somehow approach the subject of a person, or certain type thereof, but yet detached from their basic humanity.

Or, maybe, as superodalisque has alluded, this is just one of those cases where I'm drawing a conclusion whilst too far removed from the relevant context.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:26 AM   #112
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Nor sugar-coating.

I mentioned Gaskins specifically because of how one of the things he talks about has to do with this idea of what you put out there, how you behave on & offline, etc...has some effect of how people come at you. That "giving up too much ground" (as he describes it) informs how people approach you. And, of course, he means men in particular vis a vis how they look-at, approach, & ultimately respond to women. I was not too familiar with him until superodalisque cited him in another thread; so, maybe, I'm reading it all wrong. But, since he's a point of reference that's obviously familiar to her, I figured it would be perfectly appropriate to respond to HER (note: "^" in subject line]) using that as an example?

Of course, none of that is to say that it's a license to be rude. Or that it makes what's normally rude or boorish something other than that. However, for those of us interested in explanations of what attracts a certain element, it's certainly one point of view.

More so, how it pertains, & perhaps a bit too obliquely, to what YOU (swordchick) said has to do with how Gaskins repeatedly uses the term female in place of the more natural-sounding (to me, anyway) woman or women. (Actually, I think, even girl or chick or young-lady would be somewhat of an upgrade; since, to be fair, he also talks about what he calls grown-boys) As if, like you'd just said, to somehow approach the subject of a person, or certain type thereof, but yet detached from their basic humanity.

Or, maybe, as superodalisque has alluded, this is just one of those cases where I'm drawing a conclusion whilst too far removed from the relevant context.
i put Gaskins up in another thread because i as asking for opinions on his video. i disagree with a some of the things he says and i agree with some. he was not sited for this discussion. this is different. the issue being discussed there had absolutely nothing to do with race except that he is black. so i have absolutely no idea here this is coming from.

actually i think it is sugar coating. any decisions about a person's character or worth based on their race or anyone elses is the epitome of racism. people have allowed themselves to feel comfortable with that for a long time and have been allowed to feel comfortable with that. but it's not 1965 and we live in a different world now. asking questions to make veiled threats that white women are or will somehow become unacceptable if they date black men isn't right and never will be. it's not against the law anymore and it's unequivocally the wrong thing to do. it's time for all of us to move society forward. making racism somehow acceptable isn't doing that especially when we know better. if we don't like someone's personality ways values or family dynamics that is one thing. those are not dependent on a person's race because those things are not monolithic to race. early on i just mentioned that several of my white friends had said to me about how they felt that black men were not was fetishy and that's why they said they dated them. and said i had never personally had a black man ask me about fetish issues when we met either. people were quick to say THAT was racist. but somehow it's okay to ask someone the race of people who they've dated in the past who have absolutely nothing to do with them that they haven't and probably never will meet as though that is an indicator of something. that is not racist? i think there are people here who need to do some serious thinking.
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:31 AM   #113
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Southern white guys tend to be the ones to ask me this kind of question. I have never been asked these types of questions face-to-face. I've lived in Detroit for four years as a flabulous, fat woman and had never been asked ANYTHING like that. Even by the black guys that tried to hollar at me. They'd just be like "Hey, you're looking good!" And that's it lol
nope,most people would never ask you something like that face to face because they know in their heart how disrespectful racist and messed up it is. if it were okay they could look you in your eye to ask you.
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:14 PM   #114
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Default As far I as understand it...

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Originally Posted by superodalisque View Post
"the issue being discussed there had absolutely nothing to do with race... no idea here this is coming from."
He's not talking about race in that particular video. Although, I cannot speak for all of the rest of his videos; like I said, I not some kind of expert on him. Just like you, I can see some insight in some of the things he says. And then, obviously, there are other point where I'm just scratching my head.

However, he IS talking about certain other themes or concepts like reciprocity? Courtesy? Courtship behavior. Interactions between men and women pursuing non-platonic relationships. Respect? When you made that transition into describing the question-itself as rude, I kind of felt like it all tied in rather neatly.

Even so, I really don't think it's as far removed from our discussion as you're trying making it seem. Certainly, I didn't expect you to take offense at my bringing him into it.
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Old 04-20-2014, 05:19 PM   #115
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No racial, but I want to know why the hell white guys ask me if I date/fuck black men?

A) my love life is none of your concern
B) if you're a white guy and I'm chatting you up, why are you asking me these questions?
C) this is 2014.
A) That is true though some like to have a little history/background before getting more genuinely emotionally involved.

B) It may not be necessarily Cuckolding/ self esteem over genetalia issues as opposed to seeing what class of black men you date. Some may feel that if you are used to dating a rough crowd, then why be a gentleman who can be taken advantage of?

C) That is true though History Does Repeat Itself. Texas is looking to take away the right to vote from some of its citizens along with squeezing out Planned Parenthood Clinics affecting a Woman's Right to Choose.
In this case however, Condescending and/or Racist overtones may be morally offensive but they are far from crimes.
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Old 04-20-2014, 05:38 PM   #116
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So how would a man know what kind of man a guy is just because he's black? You know there are rough crowds of white guys too.


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A) That is true though some like to have a little history/background before getting more genuinely emotionally involved.

B) It may not be necessarily Cuckolding/ self esteem over genetalia issues
Quote:
as opposed to seeing what class of black men you date. Some may feel that if you are used to dating a rough crowd,
then why be a gentleman who can be taken advantage of?

C) That is true though History Does Repeat Itself. Texas is looking to take away the right to vote from some of its citizens along with squeezing out Planned Parenthood Clinics affecting a Woman's Right to Choose.
In this case however, Condescending and/or Racist overtones may be morally offensive but they are far from crimes.
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:02 PM   #117
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So how would a man know what kind of man a guy is just because he's black? You know there are rough crowds of white guys too.
That's why I hinted to class of black man. Doesn't mean upper class men can't be abusive as opposed to a roughneck with a soft heart or soft spot.
Not always easy to be someone's 1st or one of the few gentleman/nice guy that someone met.
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Old 04-20-2014, 09:00 PM   #118
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So how would a man know what kind of man a guy is just because he's black? You know there are rough crowds of white guys too.
exactly. you'd have to assume first that a black man must be rough thuggish poor or uneducated. in other words,that being black is enough to assume the negative.
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:12 PM   #119
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i'm still waiting for a rational reason why someone would need to know the race of my previous dates. it would help me to understand the position a lot better if some examples were provided.
It's a fair question- some folks are happy to date outside their circle and some are not. Nothing wrong for someone to know if they have a fair shot to have a relationship with someone; but, this all is determined on the "tone" and "context" that the question is asked.

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nope,most people would never ask you something like that face to face because they know in their heart how disrespectful racist and messed up it is. if it were okay they could look you in your eye to ask you.
In my opinion it's a fair question that is asked - doesn't bother me one bit- bear in mind - I'm more than happy to ask a probing question as well in return

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So how would a man know what kind of man a guy is just because he's black? You know there are rough crowds of white guys too.
Goes back to the stereotypes that folks do have of others- we are constantly trying to size someone up- heck it's even to the point of someone's last name to "try" to determine their background.

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That's why I hinted to class of black man. Doesn't mean upper class men can't be abusive as opposed to a roughneck with a soft heart or soft spot.
Not always easy to be someone's 1st or one of the few gentleman/nice guy that someone met.
So... how does one determine what is "upper class" and given the wide array of responses that someone can come up - "upper crust" is often not one of them...

As a side note- I was talking to my Girlfriend's Cousin -like myself He enjoys lifting weights ;but, does not wear the "muscle shirts" when he goes outside.

This is what can occur for a person of color who lifts weights and is out and about in NYC

1. You're an off-duty police officer
2. You just came out of "Club-Med" or "Lockup"
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:23 PM   #120
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exactly. you'd have to assume first that a black man must be rough thuggish poor or uneducated. in other words,that being black is enough to assume the negative.
You always find some backwards SOB ready to "size you up" -I've had folks make assumptions - happy to rip them a new asshole and use their own words against them



Here's a photo of recently elected NYC Mayor Bill DeBlasio and Family
(Wife : Chirlane - Son: Dante - Daughter: Chiara)

Now you know you have some racist bastards living throughout NYC City having a tums with their cup of java in the morning .....
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:18 AM   #121
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I do not think he is trying to detach humanity from women. He is trying to come off as intelligent. As women & girls, we are female & that is not offensive.

I do not think it is right that anyone should be treated badly, due to race or interracial dating.


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Nor sugar-coating.

More so, how it pertains, & perhaps a bit too obliquely, to what YOU (swordchick) said has to do with how Gaskins repeatedly uses the term female in place of the more natural-sounding (to me, anyway) woman or women. (Actually, I think, even girl or chick or young-lady would be somewhat of an upgrade; since, to be fair, he also talks about what he calls grown-boys) As if, like you'd just said, to somehow approach the subject of a person, or certain type thereof, but yet detached from their basic humanity.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:05 AM   #122
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Default ^Yeah, I would agree.

It's also worth noting that the video I referenced is more than 2 years old. And so it appears (to me) that's he's since modified his approach and doesn't really seem to do it anymore. Or at least not in the Part 2 video that superdalisque posted. (Which is how the whole thing caught my attention-anyway, her decision to go with the follow-up which only has a fraction of as many views or likes as the original).

Maybe someone spoke-up. Said something to him about it. And he thought about it and realized "Oh, this isn't really in line with the rest of what I'm trying to get across...

I would guess as much because of the context... What's more plain to see in the rest of the videos.

Look, honestly, his words and word-choice are some reflection of what's in his head. He probably has all kinds of wacky and unchallenged ideas. Or at least he did when he made that video. However, like you pointed out before, in the same post:

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...If you want to find out about a person, you must spend time with them. The world has changed so much that race & culture doesn't say much about an individual anyways.
Most people; even those without a whole lot of intelligence, education, or life-experience; have a bit more depth and nuance in their personality than to be so neatly summed up in just a single word or phrase, or question. And, again, removed from any context....

Indeed, the real challenge of combating both racism and rudeness begins and ends in asking ourselves to look and think beyond the mere surface of things. Considering the individuality of others.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:56 AM   #123
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Here's my life in a nutshell:

I am multicultural (Mom was 100% second generation Polish, Dad was half French, half Mohawk).

My mother's culture had no problems with dating or marrying big curvy women. In fact, my great-grandmother, who was alive during my dating and early marriage years, encouraged me to date "girls with meat on their bones."

My fathers five sisters are/were curvy, as was my grandmother.

If a woman's beautiful or sexy or hot, color/race doesn't freaking matter!
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:50 AM   #124
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White boys only asking about black boys cause they wanna know if you prefer the BIG D as opposed to their own itty bitty.
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Old 04-21-2014, 03:49 PM   #125
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as a black/scottish guy i've always attributed my affinity for BBW's to my unaccountably good taste.

but i've heard the "black guy/bbw" comment before, but most of the time those who make such comments aren't really in any kind of position to turn it into a debate (they lack ammo).
Oh hi there
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