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Old 03-11-2014, 06:35 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by terpsichore View Post
are you sure you're referring to my post, and not the one below it? because the only thing i said that could be considered negative is that i don't like ties or shirts that are purposely too big. and so what? if a guy loves ties and/or baggy shirts more power to him!

I don't think for a second that anyone should change what they wear based on someone else's opinion. like i said, i started this thread because i think it's interesting to see different people's tastes and styles. now of course i'm sorry i did.

the title meant to be a rip off of the TV show of the same name. i would gladly change it if that's what is causing offense, except this board apparently doesn't allow edits after a certain point time-wise.
Yes, I did mean to quote the post below you. *shrivels up into a hole and dies* Sorry for that love. x

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Originally Posted by Esther View Post
I feel like a lot of threads on this board get ruined by butthurt and over-reacting.
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The OP did not say anything like this.
Yeah, I quoted the wrong person. I am sorry for that but it happens. And also just because I have a strong opinion about something doesn't mean that I am 'butthurt' or 'over reacting'. I have a strong opinion and I stated it. I am a passionate person and if that offends people then so be it.
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:55 AM   #27
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Yeah, I quoted the wrong person. I am sorry for that but it happens. And also just because I have a strong opinion about something doesn't mean that I am 'butthurt' or 'over reacting'. I have a strong opinion and I stated it. I am a passionate person and if that offends people then so be it.

Hm.
So everyone else should just deal with your opinion when you flip out and berate people over THEIR opinion.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:02 AM   #28
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Hm.
So everyone else should just deal with your opinion when you flip out and berate people over THEIR opinion.
I don't see how I 'flipped out'. And it wasn't their opinion I was 'berating', it was the fact that they went an slagged off a load of pictures of people without their permission. If I went on the main board and started a thread where I went through the pictures that the BBW put on the 'pictures of you living' thread and described each one I didn't like and called them fashion disasters and said that they shouldn't wear that, there would be uproar. I don't see why it is okay to do that to the men that post here just because they are men and we are women.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:11 AM   #29
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Loopy, I agree with what you say that no one has the right to tell anyone how to dress.

That being said, I fully expect my friends to tell me if I am wearing something that makes me look shitty. If I can't depend on my friends to tell me, hey, that is nice but it doesn't work on you, then who can I depend on? I am not saying that a stranger should take this route because then yes, they would get a black eye and a broken lip and a few other broken things, but I depend on my friends to say.. "Don't even think about wearing that"
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:13 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by lucca23v2 View Post
Loopy, I agree with what you say that no one has the right to tell anyone how to dress.

That being said, I fully expect my friends to tell me if I am wearing something that makes me look shitty. If I can't depend on my friends to tell me, hey, that is nice but it doesn't work on you, then who can I depend on? I am not saying that a stranger should take this route because then yes, they would get a black eye and a broken lip and a few other broken things, but I depend on my friends to say.. "Don't even think about wearing that"
Yeah, I agree with that, I don't have a problem with friends or my family saying something does suit me and if they ask for my opinion I will give them an honest answer. I am usually the person that gets dragged along shopping for that reason, because I always tell the truth!
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:15 AM   #31
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Yeah, I agree with that, I don't have a problem with friends or my family saying something does suit me and if they ask for my opinion I will give them an honest answer. I am usually the person that gets dragged along shopping for that reason, because I always tell the truth!
that is better than my friend. I walk around the store picking up clothes.. and she walks behind me snatching it out and saying.. nope.. yes, but wrong size.. she is a clothes "soup guy"--No Clothes for you!
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:55 AM   #32
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Yes, I did mean to quote the post below you. *shrivels up into a hole and dies* Sorry for that love. x
no problem. i was just really confused for a minute.

still, i apologize for not realizing that some things just don't translate when the only communication input is written word.

like my comment about not wearing baggy shirts because then people can't admire the delightful curves underneath it...in real life there would be tone of voice, vocal inflection, and facial expression that would make it clear that comments like that are tongue in cheek/silly/teasing/flirtatious and NOT at all reflecting a belief that people should be objectified or actually make their clothing choices based on random strangers' pleasure.

on an internet forum however, it's just written words on a page (which studies have shown the actual content/words used only makes up 7% of a perceived message) and people are left to infer the other 93% which can obviously lead to mis-understandings. :/ I do apologize for not considering that when making my original post.

edited to add, lest anyone think i'm advocating being a designer snob- i am currently wearing a my little pony shirt.

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Old 03-11-2014, 09:02 AM   #33
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No Clothes for you!
when it comes to attractive guys, this is probably the best fashion advice!
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:08 AM   #34
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Model outfits for attractive women? I'd gladly go shopping with any FFAs looking to play image consultant. /can-do

Even to places that aren't my usual Army surplus stores.
i can picture that being a really good look actually! cargo pants + combat boots + military-esque jacket + a basic t-shirt + your gorgeous self = a fashion DO! it says powerful in an effortless rugged way.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:27 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by agouderia View Post
On the BHM board, you can say whatever you want, out yourself as a heathen, serial-killer, alien-zombie ... whatever .... you'll find tolerance.

If you're intent on being tarred-&-feathered though, go ahead and start a critical debate about .... fashion....



The problem with all shock images, they're imprinted on your retina and take a while longer to go away......



That's actually totally fine because you in essence know how to do it.

You've posted some great fashion pics of yourself, like playing on the English country squire theme or that of the art mobster, which brought out the best in your phenotype and conveyed a distinct, interesting and flattering sense of personal style.

Only lately I'm worried .... have you caught that nasty virus that makes men lose their style sense...?



This is the point.
It's not about conforming to polka dots this season, stripes next year and wearing what's in every fashion magazine.
It's about finding a way to express through dress as who you want to be perceived in the social context.

Fashion or better dress is an established social code, a non-verbal form of sending signals - just like language is a verbal one. Denying the importance of dress or not using it doesn't make the code go away - it just shows you don't/refuse to speak it.
Dress/appearance even are social codes that are based in biology - to convey background, power, status, mating chances. Like the most colorful male bird get's the female with the thickest breast feathers....

Rejecting the code doesn't make anybody a better, morally superior person - just as using the code doesn't per se turn someone into a superficial twat.

Women from early on are conditioned much more strongly to accept, use - and sometimes abuse - the social code of dress. For men it is less so, and BHM especially seem to have received the message the code doesn't apply to them. That's wrong though, because the dress of many BHM may not be sending the code signals they really want the others to receive about them.

As with every code, like in a language, there are conventions as to meaning and interpretation.
If you appear at a function as a BHM in baggy pants and non-matching wrinkled t-shirt, the message 98% of all people will receive is not: 'Oh a BHM with a beautiful mind and a shining soul, both too precious to waste time and thought on dress.'
The 98% will interpret it more in the line of: 'Ehh, a fat guy who didn't make the effort ..." - often (unjustifiably) extending this perception to the person as such. Codes in social interaction have the function of simplifying, making it easier to immediately assess and categorize situations. (Our stone age heritage, to be able to instantly figure out whether that furry thing behind the next rock is a rabbit or a sabre-tooth tiger....)

Scorning social conventions on code interpretation doesn't make them go away. Like if an English speaker says: 'Me go in room with bed now to eyes close' nobody will assume this person is the next Shakespeare in the making.

So finding a personal sense of dress to become the master of the coded messages he conveys, how he wants his environment to receive them is imo in a BHM's basic self-interest.

There's a whole thread on another board with BHMs moaning they don't get positive attention from BBWs when they attend events in jeans & t-shirts.
That says more about the jeans&t-shirts than the BBWs!





Yes, apart from the not learning early part BHMs are thrown a much worse deal than BBWs are by now as far as availability and pricing for clothing goes.

It asks for a lot more dedication, patience, overcoming frustration and unfortunately also money.
Being creative - like for instance asking to be consider as a model in a local tailoring/textile design school, etc. - becomes a necessity.

As far as taste and style goes, there's a huge range of options which will work for the BHM in his individual setting. It's about finding something that fits, makes the best of the individual shape, high lights skin, eyes, hair, makes you feel your best when facing the world.

It's also not about imposing personal preferences on anyone - different things work for different people.
A SS/BHM friend of mine for instance has no backside, very thin legs and a wonderfully blubbery upper torso & belly. His style is one I normally, theoretically don't care for at all: He always wears really skinny pants with boots, a dark sports coat to make the shoulders look broad and camouflage the missing backside and great shirts in all shades of blue (to match his great eyes) in dainty, eclectic patterns, actually emphasizing the belly.
But he looks totally cool like this and has a great presence.

It just makes me sad and frustrates me if I see many BHMs IRL and here on the board whom I know to be intelligent, interesting, funny, creative people - but who are simply cutting themselves short by conveying the opposite visual message.
Honestly, the amount of importance that you place on "fashion" is baffling to me. I dress the way I like to dress (typically in plain-colored button down shirts and a pair of khakis) and although it's not fancy in the least, I feel content with how I look and have never received any complaints. Despite dressing kind of conservatively myself, I not only respect people that dress less "conventionally" than I do, but I admire it, because it illustrates someone that is comfortable enough with themselves to do what makes them happy -- rather than following some tired standard that you seem to be implying is necessary as some "end all, be all" measure of success. I also think of it as a great way to show creativity and character and I enjoy seeing the different styles people put together, even if it's not necessarily a style that I would like for myself.

I'm really, really trying not to be offensive here, but I'm honestly grateful that most of the women (and men) that I've met in my life don't seem to agree with most of what you've said here; at least not to the same overly-critical extent. Myself included. Yes, obviously codes like those you're referring to exist within our varying cultural circles, but why should someone follow them if it doesn't feel right to them personally? So they can attract a mate that puts way too much importance into something arguably trivial to many of us? Someone that they are more than likely not going to see eye-to-eye with anyway?

I think wearing what you want and owning it says far more about someone than their effort to conform to what they've been told is expected of them. I say to hell with these conventions, go with what feels right. (All just my opinion, of course.)

Ahem, anyway, sorry for the de-rail; I don't want to ruin the fun. The thread itself doesn't seem like a bad idea at all, just as long as we refrain from attacking people about the fashion that they enjoy. Variety is the spice of life, as they say.
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Last edited by MrSensible; 03-11-2014 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:41 AM   #36
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The weirdest threads here end up getting dramatic. I mean, I see how it happened. But...still.

To make things easier: Gentlemen, just refrain from clothing from now on. And post in the picture threads, just so we can make sure it works for you.

Unless: Like tankyguy said, you're cool with shopping excursion dates and don't mind a little risk when it comes to the dressing rooms
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:02 AM   #37
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Honestly, the amount of importance that you place on "fashion" is baffling to me. I dress the way I like to dress (typically in plain-colored button down shirts and a pair of khakis) and although it's not fancy in the least, I feel content with how I look and have never received any complaints. Despite dressing kind of conservatively myself, I not only respect people that dress less "conventionally" than I do, but I admire it, because it illustrates someone that is comfortable enough with themselves to do what makes them happy -- rather than following some tired standard that you seem to be implying is necessary as some "end all, be all" measure of success. I also think of it as a great way to show creativity and character and I enjoy seeing the different styles people put together, even if it's not necessarily a style that I would like for myself.

I'm really, really trying not to be offensive here, but I'm honestly grateful that most of the women (and men) that I've met in my life don't seem to agree with most of what you've said here; at least not to the same overly-critical extent. Myself included. Yes, obviously codes like those you're referring to exist within our varying cultural circles, but why should someone follow them if it doesn't feel right to them personally? So they can attract a mate that puts way too much importance into something arguably trivial to many of us? Someone that they are more than likely not going to see eye-to-eye with anyway?

I think wearing what you want and owning it says far more about someone than their effort to conform to what they've been told is expected of them. I say to hell with these conventions, go with what feels right. (All just my opinion, of course.)
I'm sorry - you totally misunderstood what I wrote!

It's stupid to have to quote oneself, but I explicitly wrote that it is not about conforming to what fashion magazines say.

It's about developing an individual sense of dress that you feel comfortable with and that sends the - explicit and implicit - message you want to convey about yourself to your personal environment.

You seem to have acheived that and get the 'non-reactions' you describe - which are in reality positive responses, because they show your personal environment accepts you in your attire.

Everyone you meet in a milli-second automatically comes up with an assessment of the way you look - just as you do with everyone you meet. Dress/attire is only one part of the information you take in during that milli-second, it's also about mood, state of health, origin if it's someone new, etc. etc.
Most of this process happens subconsciously, but that's the way we're wired. Instinctively assess and categorize people whether they belong to our 'group' in the widest sense, could be a potential ally or foe.

None of this is about moral judgement!
They're anthropological patterns that run automatically, they only surface to our conscious level when they happen to contain some information that stands out, might be of importance to us.

Just because the BHM/FFA considers 'fashion' and 'dress' to be dirty words doesn't mean this self-imposed taboo will overrule basic anthropology!
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:06 AM   #38
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The weirdest threads here end up getting dramatic. I mean, I see how it happened. But...still.
Yeah .... had to realize the hard way that 'fashion' is the dirtiest of all words on the BHM/FFA board.

Will refrain from using it in the future and act out my interest in fashion and dress history somewhere else .....
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:14 AM   #39
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when it comes to attractive guys, this is probably the best fashion advice!
I think I like your post better than my original post!
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:15 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by terpsichore View Post
when it comes to attractive guys, this is probably the best fashion advice!
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Originally Posted by Amaranthine View Post
To make things easier: Gentlemen, just refrain from clothing from now on. And post in the picture threads, just so we can make sure it works for you.

Unless: Like tankyguy said, you're cool with shopping excursion dates and don't mind a little risk when it comes to the dressing rooms
Hahaha, I agree with this! I know my fiance spends most of his time just in his boxers and that is one seriously fashionable look!
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:16 AM   #41
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no problem. i was just really confused for a minute.

still, i apologize for not realizing that some things just don't translate when the only communication input is written word.

like my comment about not wearing baggy shirts because then people can't admire the delightful curves underneath it...in real life there would be tone of voice, vocal inflection, and facial expression that would make it clear that comments like that are tongue in cheek/silly/teasing/flirtatious and NOT at all reflecting a belief that people should be objectified or actually make their clothing choices based on random strangers' pleasure.

on an internet forum however, it's just written words on a page (which studies have shown the actual content/words used only makes up 7% of a perceived message) and people are left to infer the other 93% which can obviously lead to mis-understandings. :/ I do apologize for not considering that when making my original post.

edited to add, lest anyone think i'm advocating being a designer snob- i am currently wearing a my little pony shirt.
Hey! Don't knock MLP.. I loved MLP!!!!!!!!!! Gosh I was such a girly girl.... thank goodness i grew out of that.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:30 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by agouderia View Post
I'm sorry - you totally misunderstood what I wrote!

It's stupid to have to quote oneself, but I explicitly wrote that it is not about conforming to what fashion magazines say.

It's about developing an individual sense of dress that you feel comfortable with and that sends the - explicit and implicit - message you want to convey about yourself to your personal environment.

You seem to have acheived that and get the 'non-reactions' you describe - which are in reality positive responses, because they show your personal environment accepts you in your attire.

Everyone you meet in a milli-second automatically comes up with an assessment of the way you look - just as you do with everyone you meet. Dress/attire is only one part of the information you take in during that milli-second, it's also about mood, state of health, origin if it's someone new, etc. etc.
Most of this process happens subconsciously, but that's the way we're wired. Instinctively assess and categorize people whether they belong to our 'group' in the widest sense, could be a potential ally or foe.

None of this is about moral judgement!
They're anthropological patterns that run automatically, they only surface to our conscious level when they happen to contain some information that stands out, might be of importance to us.

Just because the BHM/FFA considers 'fashion' and 'dress' to be dirty words doesn't mean this self-imposed taboo will overrule basic anthropology!
I'm not going to argue the psychology behind it because I'm really not qualified. The main issue I had here was with the post berating someone (or multiple people, it's hard to tell) by saying what they were wearing was a "fashion disaster" simply because you don't care for it. Fashion is subjective. If a guy wants to wear a sweater or baggy pants, why shouldn't he? Same for women. My only point here is that people should wear what they want, and whether you care for the style or not, you should try to respect that, rather than hurling indirect insults at them about it.

As far as my own style goes, I dress the way I dress because I honestly don't put that much thought into fashion. I buy what's easily available to me and practical for my size. That doesn't mean I'm against wearing a Children of Bodom T and a pair of baggy cargo pants when the mood strikes me. I just really don't care that much either way most of the time. I'm not going argue that there are people that put a ton of importance into it, I'm just not one of them and I personally don't understand it. I'll gladly start and pursue a relationship with anyone, regardless of their stylistic choices, as long we hit it off where it truly counts.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:38 AM   #43
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Yeah .... had to realize the hard way that 'fashion' is the dirtiest of all words on the BHM/FFA board.

Will refrain from using it in the future and act out my interest in fashion and dress history somewhere else .....
See, discussing fashion isn't the problem. Actually, I love that you're posting more on our board, and enjoy hearing more about the person who writes such lovely stories. You have interesting and insightful opinions on a lot of things.

And I do think we're a very tolerant and accepting board. But, here's the thing. Maybe, you know, phrases like "70s hillbilly B-Movie" and "X-mas nightmare" don't really seem all that tolerant. If those comments were posted on the anonymous comments thread, I'm pretty sure I would have had to weed them out, because they're just rather...mean-spirited. So feel free to discuss fashion! But...try to avoid blatantly insulting people?
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:48 AM   #44
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Couldn't agree with Paco more. You took exactly what I was thinking and put it into words that would probably have never come out of my mouth.

If I've lost any weight in the past it's been specifically for clothes. Not that I couldn't find clothes that fit before, but I couldn't find clothes that fit that I WANTED to wear. I love what I wear and I'm happy when I do. I wear jeans a graphic tees, but also love my slacks and ties.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:49 AM   #45
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I have to say that I am not into fashion at all, for guys or girls. I prefer to dress casual but as far as other people are concerned you look best in what you are comfortable in. I can't think of a time I have seen a BHM and thought that they should dress better or different, it just doesn't register on my radar at all.

That said, I prefer guys that look laid back rather than those who seem to put a ridiculous amount of time into their appearance. I am not someone that cares about my appearance so much so I think I would find it annoying if my guy spent hours getting dressed and fussing over outfits!

If you want to impress me come by my house wearing nothing but boxers, a bowtie and kitty ears.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:01 PM   #46
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I have to say that I am not into fashion at all, for guys or girls. I prefer to dress casual but as far as other people are concerned you look best in what you are comfortable in. I can't think of a time I have seen a BHM and thought that they should dress better or different, it just doesn't register on my radar at all.

That said, I prefer guys that look laid back rather than those who seem to put a ridiculous amount of time into their appearance. I am not someone that cares about my appearance so much so I think I would find it annoying if my guy spent hours getting dressed and fussing over outfits!

If you want to impress me come by my house wearing nothing but boxers, a bowtie and kitty ears.
Just going to throw this out there, putting on a nice cardigan with some chinos and an oxford shirt does not take hours, literally minutes.

I also think there's a difference between not caring what someone wears, and not noticing when someone puts in an extra minute of effort? I mean, if your fiance wore his boxers and kitty ears I'm sure that would flood your basement, (as you've said it does.) But if he wore a cardigan and some cords with an oxford (even if it doesn't suit his style) I'm sure you'd notice that he spent a couple minutes picking out something "nice," as opposed to said kitty ears or even jeans and a t-shirt.

Not to say he would look better in "nice" clothes, but I'm sure you can at least admit you know what "nice" clothing is or at least what it looks like.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:27 PM   #47
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If you want to impress me come by my house wearing nothing but boxers, a bowtie and kitty ears.
i can't say i've ever thought about that particular combination before, but now that you put the mental image in my head of a hot guy in kitty ears and boxers...wow. this needs to happen.

there was one guy i dated (one of those rare exceptions who were rather slender ) , a singer who captured my attention by wearing skirts to rehearsal. very nonchalantly and casually, a plain knee-length H&M-type khaki/cargo skirt with a t-shirt and/or hoodie and flip flops. i didn't know i had a thing for guys in manskirts until then.

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Old 03-11-2014, 01:20 PM   #48
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My new outfit is pretty fly.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:03 PM   #49
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And I do think we're a very tolerant and accepting board. But, here's the thing. Maybe, you know, phrases like "70s hillbilly B-Movie" and "X-mas nightmare" don't really seem all that tolerant. If those comments were posted on the anonymous comments thread, I'm pretty sure I would have had to weed them out, because they're just rather...mean-spirited. So feel free to discuss fashion! But...try to avoid blatantly insulting people?
I'm sincerely sorry if anything I wrote in the fashion context would actually come across as mean-spirited.
Nothing was farther from my intention.

My descriptions where intended as a slightly cartoonish exaggeration, a bit flippant as you can actually read them in many popular fashion critiques (I've done several content analysis' in the field in different countries, so I know what the writing is like).

So it seems I completely underestimated how far apart these different communicative worlds are and how different the mind-set is.

Since discontent, insecurity and frustration with dress issues is voiced here and there on the BHM board, I had hoped/expected that maybe in this rather closed and protected forum there would be room and willingness for some constructive and also fun counselling and experimenting.

I was surprised and taken aback by the how radically the mantra of 'dress doesn't matter, just be comfortable, nobody cares, fashion is superficial evil' is churned through.
Anybody who has ventured into the real working world, especially white-collar and outside of academia/non-profit knows that's a delusion.
Books there are judged first by the cover, only then does content and substance get a chance. And a fat book needs an even better cover to get that chance; that's unfortunately a fact.

Bottom-line is I've come to understand that here everyone is more comfortable with this alternate reality bubble, so I'll respect that and keep out of these issues from now on.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:10 PM   #50
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It depends on the company. Some, especially in the tech sector, have no dress code. In fact, dressing up consistently is looked on with some suspicion, but that has much to do with some of the social norms of those involved.

I do agree that a large swath of the working world does fall in line with what you are stating. This is definitely a sore spot with some people, probably due to the messages of fat folks don't care about their looks, stereotypes, and being judged on their appearance by someone who is thinner and has more access to stylish clothing.

Personally, having watched a few of those fashion tv shows where they make the similar, over the top comments on outfits... I find that sort of hyperbole fun within established context. From what I'm gathering, this entire hullabaloo was caused by misunderstood intent, communication of what can be a sensitive issue.

I'm cool with whatever, but, yo, I can't help but think a step back and a few more moments away from the posts will help. I don't like seeing someone feeling that they're unable to voice their thoughts and hope that agouderia will feel comfortable doing so sooner as opposed to later.
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