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Old 09-26-2017, 06:07 AM   #126
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FWIW, regarding what Loopy remembered of what I said, the three categories I wrote about some time ago were roughly:

- liking fat on prospective partners, classically being sexually attracted to fat women if you are a heterosexual guy and liking fat women if you are a heterosexual woman, etc.

- liking fat on those people who would not be in your sexual partner pool (preferring the look of other fat guys for a strictly heterosexual male, etc)

- liking fat on yourself.

With the note that people can be one, two, or all three of those things.

Nowadays I'd probably be more inclined to just do a 2x2 grid, with one axis running from "fat as an erotic preference" to "fat as an esthetic preference" and the other axis being "others" "self." (which doesn't properly describe the case of someone who is attracted to thin members of one gender and fat members of another, or who would like to be a thin lady or a fat man, etc, etc, but you can only do so much with two dimensional charts!), and pointing out that people can identify with from zero to all four of those quadrants.

(the main difference being that I came to recognize that some people get turned on by being fat but yet can feel it makes them unattractive, or can like the look of being fat but associating that with being less sexual than if they were thin. Should have been obvious, but I just hadn't considered those options)
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:31 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by loopytheone View Post
I think you're underestimating the amount of wariness that most women have towards men. You might trust an acquaintance to touch you, but for women, we are more likely to be raped by a person we know than by a complete stranger. You have to be far, far higher on the tier of friendship/trust before most women would be comfortable being touched by you. And then, it also depends on the person. From the sounds of it you are a fairly tactile person that doesn't mind being touched. I'm the opposite; I wouldn't let a member of my family or my best friend touch my torso or thighs simply because I don't like being touched by anyone.
I agree - even a woman who doesn't mind being touched per se would be (and should be) wary about most men touching them. To paraphrase a saying, "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will rape or kill them." Of course, the vast majority of men don't want to rape or kill women, but unfortunately the few who do are not likely to reveal themselves until it's too late.

[QUOTE} (Originally posted by Loopytheone): As for the FFA thing, I would have though that you'd be looking for a fat FFA? I mean, you enjoy being fat and want to remain fat so surely you would want a partner that appreciated that and found your weight as attractive as you find it, right? It reminds me of something Tad said once, about there being different aspects to being an FA. I can't remember exactly what he said, but what I remember is that there are at least two aspects to being an FA; liking your own fat and liking fat on others. Those two things don't always co-exist together (fit people often like BBW/BHM) but you are ideally looking for a partner who mirrors those preferences; one who likes others fat and one who likes being fat, for instance. But you like both, so really you need a partner that likes both too. This is a realisation I came to a while ago in terms of myself. I love fat people and am definitely an FA (so I want a fat partner) but I also like being fat myself and want to be adored for that (so my partner needs to be an FA too). As a fat FFA who's only ever been in serious relationships with other fat FAs, I can assure you it does happen and is definitely what I would advise looking for.[END QUOTE]

Interesting point. Some FAs (including FFAs) obviously like being fat themselves, and some prefer not to be fat, for any number of reasons. I was fat when I was a kid, and I'm also on the autism spectrum (Asperger's), although nobody was aware of such a thing back in the day. As a result, I was bullied a lot. At age 11, I started exercising and studying self-defense, and by the time I was 13 or 14, the bullying had pretty much ended. The exercise/self-defense habit stuck with me, however, as did a loathing for bullies, bigots, and anyone who demeans others. So I'm in the more or less fit (if old) FA category, but it has nothing to do with bad feelings about fat on anyone. In fact, I can definitely see the hotness of two fat bodies coming together (so to speak).
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:03 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by loopytheone View Post
As for the example you've given of a woman wanting to touch your belly, bear in mind that your reaction applies to you as an individual and not all fat men in general. You must have noticed by now that, even on a site like this, you are happier being fat and see fatness as a stronger positive than most people. I can assure you as an FFA that most fat men would not react to that situation anything like you would. There's a very large amount of fat men that are ashamed of their size and get angry/upset/uncomfortable if it is mentioned or touched, even in a positive way. Perhaps men tend to be less open about how they feel about themselves in public, and that's why it isn't noticed as much. But I'm positive that every FFA on this site has had the experience of being with a fat man that is ashamed to some degree of their weight.
I know. That wasn't really my point. I was only using that as an example of what I meant. However, as a thought experiment, it's not very precise, so let's use a different example. Kissing while hanging upside-down like Spider-man. Say two people were in the relationship for a while, and the girl says she thinks it's totally the only romantic way to kiss. The guy might totally humor her, even if he thinks she's a little strange. The same is not true the other way around.

My point was just that there is a difference between the experiences of FAs and FFAs, favoring FFAs as a result of the greater willingness of men to accept "weird stuff" from their partner, which, by accepting the order that fatgrllvr put forth, you seem to acknowledge.

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Originally Posted by loopytheone View Post
In the example of a stranger asking to touch me, I'd be seriously freaked out. Firstly because I don't like to be touched by strangers (its an invasion of my personal space) and secondly because women are conditioned to be naturally afraid/wary of strangers. This especially applies to a situation where the stranger could over power us, and we are also taught that if we let strange men touch us, we are asking to get raped or followed or stalked.
Of course. You need to know you can trust the person first. I get that. The only thing here I'm a little foggy on is what it would be like to desire personal space. To me, personal space has always been a purely mental thing, when there are times that I don't want to be distracted from my thoughts, but I don't really know what it's like to want other people to back away from me, unless I have very good reasons to think they're carrying a weapon of some kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopytheone View Post
I think you're underestimating the amount of wariness that most women have towards men. You might trust an acquaintance to touch you, but for women, we are more likely to be raped by a person we know than by a complete stranger. You have to be far, far higher on the tier of friendship/trust before most women would be comfortable being touched by you. And then, it also depends on the person. From the sounds of it you are a fairly tactile person that doesn't mind being touched. I'm the opposite; I wouldn't let a member of my family or my best friend touch my torso or thighs simply because I don't like being touched by anyone.
You use the words "fairly tactile" to describe me. That's halfway right. I'm almost totally tactile. Apart from physical proximity and the occasional compliment on something I've done or achieved, physical contact is just about the only form of affection I can really appreciate, and no, I don't mean it in that kind of way. I mean pats on the shoulders, the arms, the head... You know. Contact. I react to such contact a good deal more and better than any house cat I've ever seen, so when women complain "we're not pets. Don't touch us," I just can't even conceptualize what that kind of feeling would be like. What's worse is that it seems like a lot more people are developing in your way, rather than mine, meaning that I need to search harder and harder to find the affection and affirmation that I need.

Harry Frederick Harlow's experiments showed the essential importance of appreciable, social contact, over and above the animal desire to survive in rhesus monkeys, and although I'm not a monkey, and have the ability to suppress my emotions, nonetheless, my life of almost total tactile isolation has been tortuous in the extreme, and I often wonder if it's even worth going to work for another day, just so I can prolong it. Don't get me wrong. I have no intention of endangering my own survival. It's just my feelings on this point are very powerful, and cause me almost nothing but pain, because of how the social situation is right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopytheone View Post
As for the FFA thing, I would have though that you'd be looking for a fat FFA?
Yes, in an ideal situation, but my point is that I think a thin FFA would at least understand my feelings on all this, and wouldn't try to condemn me just for feeling the way I feel (without being a hypocrite, anyway.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopytheone View Post
It reminds me of something Tad said once, about there being different aspects to being an FA. I can't remember exactly what he said, but what I remember is that there are at least two aspects to being an FA; liking your own fat and liking fat on others.
To me, he listed three types of Fat Admiration. Liking fat on potential mates, on non-potential mates and on yourself. I fall into all three categories, because I think anything (men, women, dogs, snowmen, potato-heads, etc,) look better fat than thin. I would only draw the line somewhere in "roads" territory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopytheone View Post
As a fat FFA who's only ever been in serious relationships with other fat FAs, I can assure you it does happen and is definitely what I would advise looking for.
I think we're on the same page here.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:13 AM   #129
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First off, that's a really interesting take on things, thanks for sharing. A lot of FA seem to start with just saying they like big boobs. Makes me wonder how many people that claim to like big boobs are closet FA.

I would disagree with the part I've highlighted though. Due to medical reasons, I have always been unable to orgasm yet my love of fat people has always been there and always been strong. I think it's probably too complex a thing to reduce it to one or two events in a persons life.
Hi sorry for late reply, I'm basing my "imprinting" idea on the leary/wilson 8 circuits of human consciousness and I got it wrong, the imprinting of your socio-sexual circuit isn't just from orgasm but from puberty as well

I have intellectual narcissism so I try and always appear to be smart and funny, but at least I'm aware of it so I can poke fun at it and try and acknowledge when I'm doing it

My instant reaction to reading about your medical condition was "Oh you poor thing" and I instantly wanted to start suggesting tantric methods/mdma but then I realised that you probably get that reaction all the time so I tried to think of a cleverer response (although its not as insightful a realisation when I had to tell everyone how insightful I am so no points for me there)

My ponderings have lead me to this hypothesis, not about the imprinting of our sexual desires but why we find people attractive.
We have at least two mental states that govern most of our actions, fight or flight and rest and digest, I think there's more states but for sake of argument lets suppose we have this polarity to work in, now in fight or flight mode you only have access to the logical side of the brain you're incapable of emotional range and creative problem solving, I think in this mode you're attraction is motivated by fear:
-you become attracted to people you can project yourself in
-you're currently feeling ashamed of yourself and your body
-this is a logical state of mind growing up with western media
-your attracted to people who are ashamed of their bodies/sexual identity
-I realised that when I'm stressed or scared or angry and I'm trying to masturbate to porn it was usually to models that aren't "present" they still attach some shame to what they are doing so their minds are elsewhere
-they're in the same fight or flight mode so really I was masturbating to myself projected into this poor person

That sounds absolutely hideous writing it out loud but I think this is a widespread problem, I've stopped watching porn where the women aren't present (you can always tell by the eyes) I think we need to come to a place of self acceptance in order to heal this fear-jerk reaction.

Anyway to end on a happier note I'd like to talk about the opposite state of mind "rest and digest" where you have access to both sides of your brain:
-I still think in rest an digest you see yourself in porn but it's the "present" version of yourself
-this state you can see the empowered version of yourself in models that love their bodies and know that you love their bodies too
-you feel more attractive in your own body
-you have agency and you commune as equals in love rather than fear
-you think more about the sensations that you can give rather than receive
-in this state you can make love with yourself and others

In our crazy world where we decided that cities were a good idea and that it was also a good idea to see everyone as separate races that are essentially alien invaders it can be hard to leave fight or flight (I think this is the root cause of addiction so I'm not going to advocate drugs except responsibly [only do it with people you trust]) I'd like to advocate massage as my main route to rest and digest mode, body positive masseuses can be hard to come by but you can get an indian head massager or practice reflexology on your hands or ears (feet too if your flexible) or do it with a friend, neck and shoulders seems to be where we carry a lot of our tension.

I'm scared I'm going to offend people with this post, I'm not trying to shame anyone I'm just trying to admit to my own shame so that I can grow, I don't think that my hypothesis are an indisputable truth its just a theory I came up with (I'm also scared this might not be original so I'm going to say right now I'm not saying I thought of it first)
Also I'm afraid I haven't put it very eloquently its a very new theory and I'm terrified about being misunderstood so I don't think I've used quite the right language but hopefully you can see what I'm trying to get across.
Also I know this is a thread about fat fetishism but my theory is about all attraction I think it links in with fetishism but I just wanted to clarify that, thankyou I'd like to end on a happy quote x

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― Alan Moore, V for Vendetta
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Last edited by Lastminute.Tom; 10-10-2017 at 06:27 AM. Reason: clarification
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