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Old 11-20-2016, 04:40 PM   #1
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Default Regressives Taking Their Ball and Going Home

The few adults here understand that regressive ideas cannot stand open and honest debate.

So they do what history has proven. They silence opposing opinions, just as the Marxist/fascist governments they admire always have done.

Dimensions's regressives are moving backwards, shutting down political debate.

But one good for a civilized people will come from shutting down Hyde Park...

one less venue for regressives to foster their rhetoric of hate and division which is tearing America asunder with regressive rioting and violence.


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Old 11-20-2016, 05:14 PM   #2
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Bye! Don't get too lonely at home!
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Old 11-20-2016, 06:30 PM   #3
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Old 11-20-2016, 07:36 PM   #4
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So amuse me and tell me how "twitter-don" will solve all our problems in 6 months or less... And remember - no Cartoons or Gifs .....
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Old 11-22-2016, 06:32 AM   #5
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Hyde Park lasted over ten years. Not a bad run. It would be interesting, though, to tally how many opinions all that firepower changed.
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Old 11-22-2016, 08:26 AM   #6
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Hyde Park lasted over ten years. Not a bad run. It would be interesting, though, to tally how many opinions all that firepower changed.
Frankly, changing a person's opinion is not really a good metric. Consider most papers have an editorial page where staff, syndicated columnist and readers submit opinions in letters to the editor. Very few opinions are changed, but they do bring the issues into focus. Which is why allowing a free flow of ideas is a good.

To suggest that I have no concerns about the NEW Hyde Park is an understatement. Will it be a free flowing forum where all ideas are welcome? Or, will it become a “safe space” like on so many college and universities where only “politically correct” speech is allowed?
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:11 AM   #7
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Deli you really don't have a clue about so called safe space. The free exchange of ideas on college campuses requires that faculty and students feel safe to express said ideas. Faculty and students must not fear religion, the state, corporations, or local racists and bullies.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:13 AM   #8
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Of course, the only people who have to worry about political correctness generally are the racists and bullies.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
To suggest that I have no concerns about the NEW Hyde Park is an understatement. Will it be a free flowing forum where all ideas are welcome? Or, will it become a “safe space” like on so many college and universities where only “politically correct” speech is allowed?
Our aim is to bring the political board closer in terms of rules/moderation to the rest of the forum. After 10 years of having Hyde Park the way it is now I can understand that it is going to take a while to adjust to. The intention is not to stop anybody from stating their opinions, but to keep threads more on topic to political events and keep discussions flowing more smoothly instead of devolving into mindless mud-slinging.

We are going to have lots of chances for people to give their opinions on what they want, don't want etc etc for the new board before we put it up. After I take down Hyde Park I will be putting up a special board for people to give their opinions to the mod team and the feedback we get there will help determine the new rules/structure of the new political board. We want to work with the people that have been active members of this community for so long in order to create something even better than Hyde Park.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
Frankly, changing a person's opinion is not really a good metric.

To suggest that I have no concerns about the NEW Hyde Park is an understatement. Will it be a free flowing forum where all ideas are welcome? Or, will it become a “safe space” like on so many college and universities where only “politically correct” speech is allowed?
It's not necessarily about changing an opinion. Alone if a new perspective on an issue is added, or additional facts, or you've understood why someone thinks differently an exchange has taken place - which is the minimum we should aim for.

As Loopy pointed out, goal is to have a place for political discussions which no longer is so far off from the style on the other forums: It's okay to disagree fundamentally on an issue, as long as you stay civil about it. In addition, it would be good to have actual debates, not just throw opinions at each other without paying attention to the other poster's arguments.
Last but not least, to draw the line where actual prosecutable slander starts - something the current board has lost sight of a bit.
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:18 AM   #11
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Is that bit about fundamentally disagreeing on an issue still going to fly when that disagreement is about another person's humanity?

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Old 11-22-2016, 01:10 PM   #12
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Of course, the only people who have to worry about political correctness generally are the racists and bullies.
Actually, no. The people who should be worried about political correctness are the people who bought into it so whole-heartedly that they dismiss anyone who doesn't buy into the party line 100 percent as racists and bullies. I see politically correct arguments everywhere and they are almost always binary, either you agree with this or you're that. Life isn't that simple, it never has been. If you dismiss people long enough they start dismissing you back. You can only call normal people racist, homophobic misogynists so many times before they decide those words must not mean anything anymore. They say Donald Trump is those things? Well shit, they've said that about every Republican for the past 30 years, that doesn't mean anything.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:04 PM   #13
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Of course, the only people who have to worry about political correctness generally are the racists and bullies.
Apparently its a loss of liberty to have to stop being a racist and/or bully.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leishycat View Post
Is that bit about fundamentally disagreeing on an issue still going to fly when that disagreement is about another person's humanity?
Denying another person's humanity in a discussion on the grounds you named constitutes hate speech which is indictable.

For discussions here in new-HP-to-be I would do even a step further and say that denying a person's humanity is prohibited - on not matter which grounds. And be it over something as trivial as which football/soccer team you support (I've had to moderate panels during international tournaments where that is an issue).
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:06 PM   #15
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Neat. I'll expect no more racism, homophobia, or transphobia to be let through from our 'friends' on the right then.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:17 PM   #16
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Neat. I'll expect no more racism, homophobia, or transphobia to be let through from our 'friends' on the right then.
People will be people (in any group, no matter if defined by religion, skin tones, body size, corporate affiliation, sports team supported, or political beliefs), and no new forum will change that.

If we are fortunate we can tone down the vitriol level and avoid outright slander most of the time. We are certainly going to try. But whatever we call the successor board, people will still be free to be idiots, patriots, loud-mouths, traitors, naifs, mouthpieces for the patriarchy, ignoramuses, social justice warriors, poor grammarians, and worse.

It will continue to be a place to enter at your peril, and I still expect that most people will be able to find something to get deeply offended by within a few minutes of reading.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:27 PM   #17
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But whatever we call the successor board, people will still be free to be idiots, patriots, loud-mouths, traitors, naifs, mouthpieces for the patriarchy, ignoramuses, social justice warriors, poor grammarians, and worse.
I love your take on humanity!

Especially those who are worse than poor grammarians....
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:36 PM   #18
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I did have to grit my teeth to get through confirming that poor grammarians will be continued to allow to flourish.

(although in all fairness, the grammar in HP tends to be pretty good -- it may tend to be a toxic stew of baiting, blaming, mantra-chanting, propagandizing, and playground level name calling, but for the most part it manages to do that with fairly decent grammar)
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:36 PM   #19
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I did have to grit my teeth to get through confirming that poor grammarians will be continued to allow to flourish.

(although in all fairness, the grammar in HP tends to be pretty good -- it may tend to be a toxic stew of baiting, blaming, mantra-chanting, propagandizing, and playground level name calling, but for the most part it manages to do that with fairly decent grammar)
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agouderia View Post
Denying another person's humanity in a discussion on the grounds you named constitutes hate speech which is indictable.

For discussions here in new-HP-to-be I would do even a step further and say that denying a person's humanity is prohibited - on not matter which grounds. And be it over something as trivial as which football/soccer team you support (I've had to moderate panels during international tournaments where that is an issue).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad View Post
People will be people (in any group, no matter if defined by religion, skin tones, body size, corporate affiliation, sports team supported, or political beliefs), and no new forum will change that.

If we are fortunate we can tone down the vitriol level and avoid outright slander most of the time. We are certainly going to try. But whatever we call the successor board, people will still be free to be idiots, patriots, loud-mouths, traitors, naifs, mouthpieces for the patriarchy, ignoramuses, social justice warriors, poor grammarians, and worse.

It will continue to be a place to enter at your peril, and I still expect that most people will be able to find something to get deeply offended by within a few minutes of reading.
These quotes are kinda contradictory.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:52 PM   #21
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No - they're not contradictory.

It means there will be clear lines - anything that is indictable is off limits.

But as Tad said - that still leaves you/us with people, opinions, attitudes, behavior you/we don't like, find appalling, in bad taste, with pea-sized intellect or whatever. That might not be good - but it's life. Not all of it can be penalized.

A new political board will only work though if all participate in keeping it up to a certain standard of fairness - also reining each other in. Other boards show it can be done.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:58 PM   #22
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Apparently its a loss of liberty to have to stop being a racist and/or bully.
Right. The so called deplorables that could not vote for Hillary Clinton. (Sarcasm!)
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Old 11-22-2016, 04:06 PM   #23
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These quotes are kinda contradictory.
Not really. It means that our intent is to get rid of things that would be outright illegal in many jurisdictions, and we hope that various measures will also improve the overall tone in the new forum.

But as you know well, once a rule is defined, some people will figure out how close they can get to the rule, can they get around the rule, can they trick the people enforcing the rule ...

Put warring siblings in the back seat of a car and tell them not to reach a finger over the centre line, one will almost immediately kick the other. Tell them no body parts and they'll find something to poke the other with. Tell them no reaching over with objects and they'll throw something. Tell them no sending objects across the centre line in any way, shape, or form, and one will contrive a way to fart in the direction of the other -- and that is without even getting into saying things, mouthing words, using hand gestures ... and note that these things usually end up going both ways, and the one who is caught is not always the one who truly most offended, because the 'referees' are not omniscient.

Will the rules be different and more comprehensive? Yes.

Will people still manage to offend within those rules? Yes.

Does the moderator team think that this effort is still worthwhile, and has a chance to make the political-board-to-be-named-later a better place than Hyde Park? Yes

And maybe worth adding: Will people be banned for their beliefs, or what we think their beliefs are? No, only for what they actually post. This is not intended to be a purge targeting any particular group. Whether everyone who has been a participant will want to participate under the new rules -- maybe, maybe not, we'll have to see. But will they be allowed to, if they follow the rules? Yes.
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Old 11-22-2016, 04:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leishycat View Post
Neat. I'll expect no more racism, homophobia, or transphobia to be let through from our 'friends' on the right then.
So … a safe space. Anyone with political views different from your own must be a deplorable.
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Old 11-22-2016, 04:36 PM   #25
ALS Again
 
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I still worry that taking down Hyde Park may be an act of censorship. Ideally, speech should be civil. However, denying a person the right to speak that person's mind may be more dangerous than that person saying nasty things.
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