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Old 11-22-2016, 04:35 AM   #176
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Good question. I'm more impressed that someone understood the Latin!
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Old 11-22-2016, 01:21 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by joswitch View Post
Nope. No opinions. Just facts. You should try actually reading up on the history of Trump and his father, and read up on who funds the GOP - instead of slurping up all the bullshit that Breitbart, Infowars and Fox News puts out to your "alt-right" echo-chamber.

Cui Bono. FOLLOW THE MONEY.

BTW - I'm not Merikan. So it's not *my* loss, not until Trump starts global thermonuclear war: because someone said something to upset him on Twitter, or he needs to cover up yet another out-of-court settlement of a fraud or sexual assault trial.

It's close to midnight and the doom bell clangs.
I truly believe Clinton would have had us much closer to midnight.
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Old 11-22-2016, 01:36 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Mack27 View Post
I truly believe Clinton would have had us much closer to midnight.
It's easy to believe that when you aren't a member of a targeted minority, isn't it?
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Old 11-22-2016, 01:57 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Mack27 View Post
I truly believe Clinton would have had us much closer to midnight.
Really? Someone with a couple of decades of experience of government and international relations at the highest possible levels, with a vast knowledge of the history, operations, and personalities of many countries and organizations, versus the person who has already weakened NATO by musing that the US might not stand by the treaty commitments that an attack on one member is an attack on all?

Honestly a bit gobsmacked that anyone sees the former as higher risk for starting a nuclear war than the latter.

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It's easy to believe that when you aren't a member of a targeted minority, isn't it?
Pretty sure that nuclear wars don't target just minorities -- I mean sure minorities/majorities, oppressors/oppressed, we'll all burn together. (I grant that maybe you are young enough not to be so familiar with the doomsday clock, used to measure perceived risk of nuclear armageddon. If that reference missed you, I'm apologize for the snark)
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:06 PM   #180
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Pretty sure that nuclear wars don't target just minorities -- I mean sure minorities/majorities, oppressors/oppressed, we'll all burn together. (I grant that maybe you are young enough not to be so familiar with the doomsday clock, used to measure perceived risk of nuclear armageddon. If that reference missed you, I'm apologize for the snark)
I was referring more to Trump's promises to make life harder for LGBT people and history of racism. But yeah I do feel a lot more at risk for nuclear war with Trump in power too >_<
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:06 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Dromond View Post
So, what is the "religion" of white nationalists? Apartheid? Ethnic cleansing? "Whites Only" signs? All of the above?
Believe it or not there's a subset of them who believe in pre-Christian Norse stuff. Freya worshipers.

This is something I've taken an interest in and read up on in a lot of forums. From what I can tell self-proclaimed "white nationalists" run the gamut from people who are simply white and nationalist to full blown white supremacists. The impression that I get is that the more recent surge of younger so-called white nationalists (with significant overlap with the alt-right) are people who feel like they are unfairly being singled out and called "privileged" when what they observe is themselves doing worse then the previous generation. They think it's okay to identify as white, it's what they are, they see other ethnic groups voting and acting as groups so they see no reason they shouldn't do that too. They're too young to remember the blatant in-your-face racism of days gone by and think that it has nothing to do with them. Milo Yiannopoulos is popular with this crowd.
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:12 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Tad View Post
Really? Someone with a couple of decades of experience of government and international relations at the highest possible levels, with a vast knowledge of the history, operations, and personalities of many countries and organizations, versus the person who has already weakened NATO by musing that the US might not stand by the treaty commitments that an attack on one member is an attack on all?
I think Clinton would have entered into a game of brinksmanship with Russia over Syria. I think Trump is more isolationist and will just let Russia do what it wants over there. To the big players it's about oil wealth, and personally I'd rather Russia have it than ISIS. A wake-up call to NATO members that they'll have to pull more of their own weight may benefit us all.
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:15 PM   #183
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Believe it or not there's a subset of them who believe in pre-Christian Norse stuff. Freya worshipers.
YUP I've encountered some of them within pagan communities. It's jarring af. Like, pagans are supposed to be progressive and enlightened and shit, but then you run into those assholes.
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:47 PM   #184
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Really? Someone with a couple of decades of experience of government and international relations at the highest possible levels, with a vast knowledge of the history, operations, and personalities of many countries and organizations, versus the person who has already weakened NATO by musing that the US might not stand by the treaty commitments that an attack on one member is an attack on all?
Actually, I think you are missing Donald Trump's point. He was discussing the reality of the past vs. the reality of today. In the past Europe and Japan were devastated by the Second World War. It was felt that the Soviet Union was a security threat to both Europe and Japan. Only the United State emerged from WWII with it's industry intact. The US was at it's height of power. As a result, the US pledged to defend Europe from the threat of the USSR by creating NATO. It also pledged to defend Japan in a mutual defense agreement. That was the reality of the past.

Today the reality has changed. Europe is re-built. Japan is re-built. Their economic power rivals the United States. So Trump wonders why Europe and Japan don't carry more of the burden for their own security. That's what he was discussing.
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Honestly a bit gobsmacked that anyone sees the former as higher risk for starting a nuclear war than the latter.
Well … people have long wondered why exactly the US joined the Europeans in Libya? The US had no vital national issue in that country. Hillary Clinton was the voice in the Obama Administration pushing for an intervention in Libya. An action that many today call a mistake.

Which is why people question Clinton's judgment. Despite all of her experience.
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:53 PM   #185
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Like, pagans are supposed to be progressive and enlightened
Says who? As someone with a certain amount of background in archeology & history I would actually argue the opposite.

Especially everything related to Norse or ancient Germanic mythology mostly is very close to biologistic, if not outright racist beliefs. With the Celtic-inspired crowd it's a bit different, but it also has segments with eco-fascist tendencies. And unless you go for Wicca, it's all pretty misogynistic (... as religions in general tend to be).
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:56 PM   #186
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I was referring more to Trump's promises to make life harder for LGBT people and history of racism. But yeah I do feel a lot more at risk for nuclear war with Trump in power too >_<
Please cite the exact quote where “Trump's promises to make life harder for LGBT people.”
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:59 PM   #187
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Well, neo-paganism, anyway. Not so much the old pre-Christian ones I guess. Most of the ones I've encountered tend to be Wiccan or similar.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:00 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
Please cite the exact quote where “Trump's promises to make life harder for LGBT people.”
I think it went something like this :
Quote:
Donald Trump:Look forward to introducing Governor Mike Pence (who has done a spectacular job in the great State of Indiana). My first choice from start!
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:02 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
Please cite the exact quote where “Trump's promises to make life harder for LGBT people.”
Have you been under a freakin rock for the last two years?
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:04 PM   #190
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I think Clinton would have entered into a game of brinksmanship with Russia over Syria. I think Trump is more isolationist and will just let Russia do what it wants over there.
Letting a bully take what they want does not make them stop, it just tells them that nobody is going to stop them, and if they threaten and bluster and push hard enough they can keep getting what they want. So then to stop them, once you realize what a monster you let grow, you have the dangerous situation where they think that if they keep escalating, eventually they will win.

THAT is why I think Trump is dangerous. Not for the short term, when he potentially lets Russia and China get away with expansionist policies, but for after when he, or a successor, realizes that that maybe they need to try and limit those policies.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:18 PM   #191
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Letting a bully take what they want does not make them stop, it just tells them that nobody is going to stop them, and if they threaten and bluster and push hard enough they can keep getting what they want. So then to stop them, once you realize what a monster you let grow, you have the dangerous situation where they think that if they keep escalating, eventually they will win.

THAT is why I think Trump is dangerous. Not for the short term, when he potentially lets Russia and China get away with expansionist policies, but for after when he, or a successor, realizes that that maybe they need to try and limit those policies.
Trump is a businessman and therefore a pragmatist, I think he sees Syria as a losing proposition. I don't think it's appeasement to let Russia look after it's own self-interests in it's own backyard, especially given the track record of the complications arising after ousting Hussein and Khadafi. Where US interests really come into play with China manipulating currency and with what he sees as lopsided trade deals I don't see Trump giving an inch.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:36 PM   #192
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Have you been under a freakin rock for the last two years?
I ask for an exact quote where Donald Trump promises to make life harder for LGBT people. They answer, of course, he never did. The “freakin rock” that you are discussing is just your interpretation.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:52 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
I ask for an exact quote where Donald Trump promises to make life harder for LGBT people. They answer, of course, he never did. The “freakin rock” that you are discussing is just your interpretation.
Did you not read dwesterny's post?

Beyond that:
Donald Trump claims accommodating transgender people too expensive
Keeping in mind of course - we are not asking for new separate bathrooms to be built for us (also keeping in mind that 'Separate but equal' was found to be discriminatory decades ago), simply to be allowed to use the proper bathrooms without fear of harassment or assault.

And furthermore:
Trump has pledged to sign the so-called 'religious liberty' bill which is designed specifically to allow discrimination against LGBT people.

So yeah. He has specifically promised to harm us.
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:58 PM   #194
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This is completely setting aside the fact that his health secretary nominee has said that allowing us to have equal rights is a threat to public health and supports a constitutional amendment to discriminate against us.

Or the fact that his attorney general nominee has opposed every LGBT rights bill that has ever been voted on.

And the backlash against us has already begun on state and local levels too.

So don't give me that crap.
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Old 11-22-2016, 06:05 PM   #195
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Did you not read dwesterny's post?

Beyond that:
Donald Trump claims accommodating transgender people too expensive
Keeping in mind of course - we are not asking for new separate bathrooms to be built for us (also keeping in mind that 'Separate but equal' was found to be discriminatory decades ago), simply to be allowed to use the proper bathrooms without fear of harassment or assault.

And furthermore:
Trump has pledged to sign the so-called 'religious liberty' bill which is designed specifically to allow discrimination against LGBT people.

So yeah. He has specifically promised to harm us.
So where is the quote?
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Old 11-22-2016, 06:27 PM   #196
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This is completely setting aside the fact that his health secretary nominee has said that allowing us to have equal rights is a threat to public health and supports a constitutional amendment to discriminate against us.

Or the fact that his attorney general nominee has opposed every LGBT rights bill that has ever been voted on.

And the backlash against us has already begun on state and local levels too.

So don't give me that crap.
With all due respect, it would appear to me that it is you that is “shoveling.” Not everyone agrees with you. That does not make them “bad people.”
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Old 11-22-2016, 06:33 PM   #197
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bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!bigmac keeps pushing the rep limit!
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Originally Posted by DELIMAN092262 View Post
So where is the quote?
Why does a quote even matter? If his actions say he hates gays that speaks louder than any quote.
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Old 11-22-2016, 06:54 PM   #198
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Why does a quote even matter? If his actions say he hates gays that speaks louder than any quote.
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Originally Posted by Leishycat View Post
I was referring more to Trump's promises to make life harder for LGBT people and history of racism. But yeah I do feel a lot more at risk for nuclear war with Trump in power too >_<
“Trump's promises” sounds like something he said. Which is why I asked for a quote as proof of said promise.

Perhaps you think a "feeling" is all it takes?

Last edited by DELIMAN092262; 11-22-2016 at 06:55 PM. Reason: additional thought
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:04 AM   #199
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When your opinion is that I am subhuman, no, I do not have to accept it.
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:05 AM   #200
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When your opinion is that I am subhuman, no, I do not have to accept it.
I can't recall when a conservative poster used those exact words to refer to a liberal poster as “subhuman.”
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