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View Poll Results: Do you want a new political board?
Yes 20 62.50%
No 12 37.50%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-01-2016, 02:11 AM   #1
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Default Do you want a new political board?

I've been listening to the feedback so far about the plan for a new political board and I've heard a lot of people say that they don't think opening a new political board is a good idea. Regardless of whether or not we have a new political board, Hyde Park will not be coming back, this is not an option.

I know this poll is very simplistic but that's kind of the point. Feel free to give your more in depth thoughts/reasons in this thread.

I will leave this poll up for a week (until the 8th December at 10 am GMT) and if over 50% of you vote against having a political board, we wont have one, simple as. I will suspend my plans for discussions on potential rules and board names until the outcome of the poll.

I admit, I assumed that because Hyde Park was frequently used and important to a few people that they would want a replacement for the board if we were to take it down. I probably shouldn't have assumed that.
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Old 12-01-2016, 06:08 AM   #2
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Honestly I'm of two minds. I believe in total freedom, even if it devolved into the most hateful of rhetoric. I'd rather know exactly where one stands with no ambiguity. I also have thick skin and do not have one delicate sensibility left in me. On the other hand I much prefer spirited debate that doesn't have to become vitriolic just because we have different takes on an issue. For that reason I say do away with it for all time. Within short order the same 5 people will have everything back the way it was. No point in doing the same thing over and over. I appreciate that you mods have the best of intentions, but as my mother was so fond of saying,"the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

On a side note, y'all say this board was the most active and I do believe that, however I wonder how great of a percentage were posts from the same 4-5 people. It was nearly their own personal board or so it seemed to me.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:28 AM   #3
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I am actually a political junky. I almost never step in Hyde Park. Unrelated to this site. I think few people people are capable of having civil political debates without using derogatory wording, and being respectful of opposing views. Most problem people are unaware that they are problem people. They are blind to their own biases. You might want to have polls on each new rule for the forum.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:30 AM   #4
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I think the ability to discuss politics without fouling up the other forums is important. However, I do think that HP was FAR out of hand. I'd like to see a political forum with tighter controls on misbehavior than were previously in place.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:50 AM   #5
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I answered "yes" but only with numerous reservations.

1) Clear, straightforward rules. The less cumbersome , the better. Rules that don't suggest that the powers that be have a slant would be great. For example, the rule forbidding discussion of Obama's citizenship was a huge blunder IMO. And no hidden rules that only the moderator knows about. If the moderator can't point to the publically stated rules and clearly cite why someone was infracted or put on timeout, them that's a problem.

2) The moderator stays out of the conversation. They are simply the referee and not a participant.

3) Don't be afraid to timeout posters. We have some personalities here, who rather unfortunately, are only interested in fighting. Not to discuss or debate but to just fight and act like jackasses. That's a huge problem that nobody wants to admit to . It's time to state the obvious and do something about it.

4) With all due respect, the new board needs a new moderator. Thank you for everything BBD, but after the ditzygirl timeout fiasco, more than a few of us lost confidence. Either draft a mod who has very little if any time spent in HP or perhaps reach out to another poster who has time here but without nearly the baggage of the more notorious ones. With the provision that they do not participate in the discussion. (I can't stress that enough.)
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:20 AM   #6
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How about putting a few posting restrictions on some of the more "troublemaking" posters initially? Make them prove they can carry on in a civilized manner before giving free reign

Memes and cartoons in one area only and limit how many you can post per day. No more posts with 100 memes by one person.

First time you post libtard or regressive or any other insult timeout one week,next tine a month, next time perma banned
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by cinnamitch View Post
How about putting a few posting restrictions on some of the more "troublemaking" posters initially? Make them prove they can carry on in a civilized manner before giving free reign

Memes and cartoons in one area only and limit how many you can post per day. No more posts with 100 memes by one person.

First time you post libtard or regressive or any other insult timeout one week,next tine a month, next time perma banned
I can get down with this very easily. The meme wars do nothing but make things worse.
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ScreamingChicken View Post
I can get down with this very easily. The meme wars do nothing but make things worse.
One of the rules we were planning on having up for discussion was a limit of one image per post to try and stop some of the image dumping spam on the new board.
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:14 AM   #9
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Albert Einstein once defined madness as repeatedly doing the same thing while expecting different results. Any new political board will devolve into Hyde Park because the same people will participate, venting the same opinions in the same way. Long story short: some things are more trouble than they're worth.
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:25 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Dr. Feelgood View Post
Albert Einstein once defined madness as repeatedly doing the same thing while expecting different results. Any new political board will devolve into Hyde Park because the same people will participate, venting the same opinions in the same way. Long story short: some things are more trouble than they're worth.
I pretty much said that to Dromond in a PM. Are you reading our PMs?

I loved HP, but I am on the fence about a political forum coming back. It'll be the same sideshow with the same people dominating conversations. It will be the same people, unwilling to debate, just stonewalling, moving goalposts, and being willfully obtuse.
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:28 AM   #11
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Personally, Id like to see the new political board at least be tried but setting a pre-planned date to review if it is meeting its goals appeals to me. Say give it 3, 4, 6 months, and if it is awful we accept that no, it isnt working and kill it off. But Id like to see us at least try because:

1) I think just saying It will never work and giving up on it is unsatisfying.

2) Banning political talk from the site entirely is apt to make for an entirely new moderating headache (what is the line on what constitutes political? How do you enforce it? And at least a couple of the mods are quite interested in world politics and may find this challenging)

3) Not having a political board on a permanent basis, but not banning all political talk on the site may invite HP style issues to spill into other boards. (HP was created in the first place to pull political discussion off of other boards, and it has served that purpose well)

4) I do think that there are some things that can be done which would potentially change the incentives for certain types of behavior and could contain the impact of the political board on the rest of the site.

5) I do agree that it could be as unpleasant, stale, and troublesome as HP became, or it could become even worse. Which is why setting up a review period might be a good safety valve (and possibly incentive for participants to try to keep it not too horrible?). Possibly even something like an annual review after the first one?

6) We said we'd do it, and I'd hate to go back on that.
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Old 12-01-2016, 11:11 AM   #12
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6) We said we'd do it, and I'd hate to go back on that.
But if it's something that the majority doesn't want, why would you hate to go back on it?

Is there a way to turn on negative reputation on one board of a forum? After the community dings you so many times, you can't see that forum anymore?
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Old 12-01-2016, 11:12 AM   #13
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Default Political and Controversial Discussion

Although being a member of the Dimensions board since the late 90's I am mainly a lurker anymore. I do enjoy what everyone else has to say, including the contentious comments from the Hyde Park forum. Anyone remember Atomic Vomit, the very right wing fishing boat captain with the very good looking plump wife? He sure had a knack for stirring up some heated discussion. Ah yes, those were the days.


With that said, I think another board (call it what it is: Political and Controversial Discussion Board) wouldn't be such a bad idea as long as the participants followed some common sense rules. I have my own personal political preferences but I do like hearing what others thoughts are. I also think each thread should have an expiration date, say 30 60 days. That would keep thinks current and not drag up old irrelevant material.


Just my 2 cents, so now I will go back to lurking for another 10 years...
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Old 12-01-2016, 11:28 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Deven View Post
But if it's something that the majority doesn't want, why would you hate to go back on it?

Is there a way to turn on negative reputation on one board of a forum? After the community dings you so many times, you can't see that forum anymore?
So are they negative repping the message or the behavior of the messenger? Very slippery slope...
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:16 PM   #15
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Maybe we can all behave. Maybe the new rules of the new forum will be respected. It's possible, and maybe it should be given a chance. I think negative rep is a terrible idea, though. It would surely be abused.
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:35 PM   #16
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I'll say no. This is a forum that is, in its truest sense, supposed to be about positivity. Political talk, if that's what you call it, can and will bring out the worst in ALL of us.
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:45 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dromond View Post
Maybe we can all behave. Maybe the new rules of the new forum will be respected. It's possible, and maybe it should be given a chance. I think negative rep is a terrible idea, though. It would surely be abused.
Agreed about negative rep.

As for the rest of the statement -- I'm sure there will be misbehavior and rules skirting and all of the rest. People are people. But I think the key part is getting the rules to address the things that we, collectively, want to contain. Which is hard, because not everyone will care about the same things, and because figuring how to turn 'care about' into an enforceable rule isn't easy, and because what we think we care about may not end up being what we thought going in ....

To draw a parallel -- meetings at work are something that everyone complains about -- they take up too much time or are boring or are useless or whatever. But at the same time, sometimes getting people together to focus on a topic and make a decision is the most efficient way to get things done. Sometimes the best way to make sure everyone is informed and has a chance to ask questions is to pull them all into a presentation. Sometimes people need a chance to express their points of view before a compromise can be reached (and sometimes those points of view had been ignored or drowned out before and important points thereby missed). So meetings can be important and valuable. Just because they can be awful doesn't mean one can't try to have a useful, effective, meeting.

I'd say more, but I need to go and polish my rose coloured glasses
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Old 12-01-2016, 04:38 PM   #18
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I voted yes

Why?

Because in my ten year memory, some of the best, most interesting and memorable threads were in HP. Yes some reallly stupid shit was also there.

You really get to know your co-posters in such a place....and seeing that part/side of them doesn't always seem like a bad thing to me.

Shutting down HP and making it a "time out" for everyone sends a definite message to all- don't abuse/misuse something that is important to you (obviously if that's the only place you post). I see a lot of what was happening in HP just a reflection of what was happening all over the board- reduced traffic/posting.
So you only have two real conservatives that posted a LOT and some other conservatives that occasionally join in. Then you had a made up screen name that I suspect was one of the usual suspects.
The majority on Dims seem to be liberal/democratic (or so it seems to me at this point anyway). I thought a lot of the posts wouldn't be worth reading without input from BOTH sides.
Seriously, are we, the majority board liberals, here to just pat ourselves on the back and feel magnanimous about liberal views? (reminds me of that episode of Southpark that knocked on how full of shit Hybrid car drivers are) Dissension from the other side isn't always a bad thing. Learning the basis of what a good number of people with opposite views think/feel can be....actually....kind of good for us. It's reality, isn't it?

All that being said, the offensive shitty memes that are just hateful dribble pulled off a radical right wing site because it made someone giggle at the idea of pissing some posters here off are plain stupid....and really need to go.

I suppose that means I'm thirding that vote to limit the images. If you can't put into adequate words how you feel without offensive "art" then perhaps you DO really need to pack your shit and go home.
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Old 12-01-2016, 05:32 PM   #19
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I voted yes

Why?

Because in my ten year memory, some of the best, most interesting and memorable threads were in HP. Yes some reallly stupid shit was also there.

You really get to know your co-posters in such a place....and seeing that part/side of them doesn't always seem like a bad thing to me.

Shutting down HP and making it a "time out" for everyone sends a definite message to all- don't abuse/misuse something that is important to you (obviously if that's the only place you post). I see a lot of what was happening in HP just a reflection of what was happening all over the board- reduced traffic/posting.
So you only have two real conservatives that posted a LOT and some other conservatives that occasionally join in. Then you had a made up screen name that I suspect was one of the usual suspects.
The majority on Dims seem to be liberal/democratic (or so it seems to me at this point anyway). I thought a lot of the posts wouldn't be worth reading without input from BOTH sides.
Seriously, are we, the majority board liberals, here to just pat ourselves on the back and feel magnanimous about liberal views? (reminds me of that episode of Southpark that knocked on how full of shit Hybrid car drivers are) Dissension from the other side isn't always a bad thing. Learning the basis of what a good number of people with opposite views think/feel can be....actually....kind of good for us. It's reality, isn't it?

All that being said, the offensive shitty memes that are just hateful dribble pulled off a radical right wing site because it made someone giggle at the idea of pissing some posters here off are plain stupid....and really need to go.

I suppose that means I'm thirding that vote to limit the images. If you can't put into adequate words how you feel without offensive "art" then perhaps you DO really need to pack your shit and go home.
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Old 12-01-2016, 05:51 PM   #20
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I voted YES

1. I think having a political board is a good thing - each Forum serves a purpose.

2. At the end of the day this is a debate forum - we are all adults - and folks are free to post- not post or even just stay in the sidelines. No one is "forced" to participate.

3. As far as troublesome folks- we've all had our moments here - you have that verbal scrum and folks say their piece. I don't need to name folks as I've stated my opinions to them on numerous occasions. Just be prepared to have a thick skin.

4. Get rid of any political talk in DIMS and be prepared for potential Blowback

5. I think there should be some leeway as opposed to "tighter controls" - it's the equivalent of asking participants to suit up and play tackle football (but, apply touch football rules)....
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Old 12-01-2016, 05:53 PM   #21
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Simple reason I voted 'Yes': keeps all the drama/opinion in the webworld and out of the work place.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:02 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by tonynyc View Post
I voted YES

1. I think having a political board is a good thing - each Forum serves a purpose.

2. At the end of the day this is a debate forum - we are all adults - and folks are free to post- not post or even just stay in the sidelines. No one is "forced" to participate.

3. As far as troublesome folks- we've all had our moments here - you have that verbal scrum and folks say their piece. I don't need to name folks as I've stated my opinions to them on numerous occasions. Just be prepared to have a thick skin.

4. Get rid of any political talk in DIMS and be prepared for potential Blowback

5. I think there should be some leeway as opposed to "tighter controls" - it's the equivalent of asking participants to suit up and play tackle football (but, apply touch football rules)....

I voted Yes!

Agree with Tony!

Also, if you don't want Hyde Park! don't go in, and don't post!
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Green Eyed Fairy View Post
I voted yes

Why?


Seriously, are we, the majority board liberals, here to just pat ourselves on the back and feel magnanimous about liberal views? (reminds me of that episode of Southpark that knocked on how full of shit Hybrid car drivers are) Dissension from the other side isn't always a bad thing. Learning the basis of what a good number of people with opposite views think/feel can be....actually....kind of good for us. It's reality, isn't it?

...

All that being said, the offensive shitty memes that are just hateful dribble pulled off a radical right wing site because it made someone giggle at the idea of pissing some posters here off are plain stupid....and really need to go.
Most of us have lives beyond the echo chamber, and I maintain that there's a difference between debate and what Those Who Shall Not Be Named do... and there's a liberal amongst us that does it, too.

They don't debate like humans, they just scream over each other. It's disgusting, annoying, and I find on more forums they wouldn't be tolerated, but because it's Dims, they are tolerated.
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Old 12-01-2016, 10:26 PM   #24
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I voted yes, for reasons I explained in The Other Thread. But deep down I suspect that, like HP, this new political board will showcase our differences rather than our commonalities.

Looking forward to the Socratic discussions on the new board that will probably seldom come.
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Old 12-02-2016, 02:37 AM   #25
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If the administrator and the moderation team decide to have a new political board, and if they have me moderating it, I will be a much less active discussion participant.

Much of the controls in place on the new board focus on making it clear that certain repetitive, bullying, shit-slinging behavior doesn't play on the new board. There was a long and complex discussion before the decision to temporarily shut down Hyde Park, and there continues to be an ongoing discussion with, as it were, the Property Brothers about the contents of the remodeling currently going on. Don't ask me how I feel about the flooring subcontractor right now. Grr.
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