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Old 10-02-2017, 04:54 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by TwoSwords View Post
The media also loves to simplify topics, and often does so incorrectly. I also think it's an oversimplification to imply that FAs can have their happy ending if the body shame issue is dealt with. It's not just about acceptance. We need to be told that it's something that it's good to like.
If all prejudice against fat people was removed, what issue do you believe FAs would have to face?

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I think he mentions it because he's wondering (please correct me if I'm wrong about this, Waldo,) if you would be willing to give FAs a little much-needed exposure, if you had the opportunity to do so, and it doesn't sound like you would.
Can you restate this as a question that you think I am refusing to answer? I am a very overt FA in real life, to the point that if I pushed it more, I would probably come off as creepy. A lot of my Dimensions posts have touched on this.


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Waldo didn't ask any of these. You say these questions "get you," but really, they seem quite easy to answer, if the girl is willing to listen. I think the answers will be different for different FAs. For me, they're No, That's not clear, I do, and No, but it is a prerequisite for attraction. The answers to these questions may be different for you.
I think when hearing that a guy likes something about yourself that you loath, it’s natural for your mind to jump to extremes. That’s why I wrote the follow up questions. They are very easy to answer.
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Old 10-02-2017, 11:30 AM   #52
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Who was the author writing to? Considering most women at some point have body image issues, you could claim the target audience is trillions of women. How many FAs are out there, no one knows, but there are a lot of fat women who believe they have never met a FA. Safe to say much less.

As a FA, yes it would have been nice to get positive media recognition. But it could muddy the body acceptance issue. The message then becomes seek out the elusive FAs out there, or you don’t have a chance. Not meant to sound like a straw man argument, but people like to simplify topics, and that is likely what it would come to.

You are speculating he is a FA. We don’t know that.

The article is about a young couple madly in love and posing for these provocative pictures, partly to express their love and devotion to each other. Since the article addresses front and center the issue about the woman being plus-size and her ongoing process of working to accept her body, the obvious question follow up question is ‘well what does her fiancé think about it?’. When all she said on the issue that was printed is “He loves me for who I am, and for who I make him want to become. He has always told me that he doesn’t care how I look, that I’m beautiful regardless.”, this is liable to leave a typical reader scratching their head. They would be wondering ‘ if he REALLY is not too concerned about her physical appearance, what other attributes does she have that are so great to have reeled him in?’. The female reader is thinking to herself – ‘what does she have that I don’t?’. You mention ‘elusive FAs’, BUT I would contend that such a mythical man who “doesn’t care how I look, that I’m beautiful regardless” is MUCH more elusive. So while I get your point about setting women up for disappointment by suggesting they should search out an FA, it is also setting up for disappointment that they can find a man who will overlook their fat body to which he is not attracted and still have a successful long-term relationship.


True there are not enough open FAs who prefer mid to SSBBW to ‘go around’ for all the fat women in the USA. Even if all the FAs were ‘brought out of the closet’ by a destigmatization of their preference, there are unlikely to be enough. BUT there is also a dearth of fat women who are comfortable enough with their body to be able to embrace the FAs’ appreciation of it and have a fulfilling healthy relationship. As you said yourself in another post, women can be floored that a man is attracted to an aspect of their body that they loath. As TwoSwords described, it is better for fat women to hear more about the existence of FAs so they can process the concept before they attempt to get into a relationship with one.



Now to the group of men who like a ‘thick woman’, such as up to a size 18 (say their upper end is the woman in the article). As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it is questionable as to whether they should be considered FAs. My suspicion is that the number of such men is quite large. However, many of them will go with a smaller woman to conform. These are the type of guys whose prefeeences will be more easy for people to get their heads around (versus the FA whose preference is SSBBW), so it would be very helpful to see more media coverage discussing that. For the current article, even a vague reference such as ‘he appreciates my full figure / abundant curves’ would have sufficed. Notice I use the word appreciate, not prefer there.



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I didn’t think my answer to “why I like fat women” was relevant to the thread. I am not sure why you are mentioning it. I have written about it in other areas of Dimensions. It varies greatly, based on context of where we are, how the conversation is going, what is my relation to this person, is my answer satisfying the person. It’s the follow up questions that get me, and only fat women ever ask: So do you want to make me/your partner super fat? Don’t you think it’s weird that you workout and eat healthy, but you want a fat partner who clearly doesn’t? Shouldn’t you think fat is attractive on you as well, and want to be fat yourself? So then you are just attracted to fat?

I have gotten all of those multiple times. Where they come from can only be speculated. I think a large component of it is, hearing that there are men that like something that women dislike about themselves, is making them try to rationalize what they are hearing. I do think it’s fair for a fat women to ask a FA if he is a feeder.
Yeah, I just mentioned it because I am sincerely curious. It is not so much as TwoSwords suggested that I am wondering if you would put it out to the world but just, as discussed earlier in this thread, getting the message out through friends, family and acquaintances. Sorry, I don’t recall having seen your descriptions of this type of discussion on previous threads.

For me the answer would be (and has been) something along the lines of: it is not a conscious choice (my preference would to be attracted to thinner women), but it is simply an innate thing that I have felt ever since a young age. My understanding is that this is what most FAs have experienced. The various follow up questions about feederism, etc are ancillary to the core concept of FAness as a kind of quasi sexual orientation. But it is important to point out that for FAs, this attraction is not just to fat for fat sake. We are attracted to the female form which we see as being greatly enhanced by the additional fat. So, it is the fat body, NOT the fat itself to which we are attracted. As for the question about why you want to be slim while having a fat partner: there need not be any correlation between the two. It is because we are attracted to the female form that is enhanced by the fat, and that is as irrelevant to our own body as any other guys' points of attraction in a female. Are we ‘hypocrites’ in this regard? Perhaps. Also consider: just because a woman is fat does not mean she prefers a fat partner. So if she is fat and you are thin it is set up to be a WIN-WIN situation. Then there are also FAs who like being fat themselves and fat people who prefer a fat partner. We all have our types and theoretically there is someone for everyone.

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Being a FA is really only relevant to the woman I am dating. As I have said in other threads, I do enjoy public displays of affection showing I am attracted to my fat partner.

I think art is art. I hope some plus size clothing line hires her as a model, even if only temporary. Could even make it into a checky marketing campaign, “Don’t apologize for size”
I feel there is a little bit of self-contradiction going on here. If you want to make overt public displays of affection, is this not a way of signaling ‘hey look at me with this hot fat chick, she’s awesome and I am so happy to be with her’. Is this not sending a message to other fat women who see these displays that hey I can maybe get a nice attractive guy like him too. And could this not be a message to other FAs out there (particularly closeted) that hey look at him. If he can buck the system and go for what he desires, maybe so can I. Or is this public display of affection more intended as a way of supporting your partner and boosting her ego? Either way, I see it as a great thing, you are advocating for FAs through your actions, But it is not consistent with the statement that being an FA is only relevant to the woman you are currently dating. That would be more consistent with minimal public displays of affection and a hesitance to answer questions about ‘why you like fat women’

Not sure what you are implying with the statement ‘art is art’? The photoshoot is risque and the one shot where her boob is exposed from the side is just asking for trouble. It’s nonsense that she was fired over this, but in today’s hypersensitive workplace atmosphere, this is to be expected. This could be considered as blowback for women being too critical of men’s behavior and an employer looking to signal that they will vigorously enforce the ‘code of conduct’ for both men and women.
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Old 10-02-2017, 01:46 PM   #53
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Waldo, just from what you wrote about the distinction of different FAs would have made that article to bloated and any editor would want that removed. Much less a comprehensive discussion of FAs. Also, it’s never stated that he is a FA. You can theorize he is being white washed.

I didn’t post the questions I am often asked by women after I explain that I am a FA, because I wanted your answers. No offense but I don’t really care about what other peoples answers are to those questions. It was to show the thinking of someone with damaged self esteem. I dated an apple shaped girl, who wanted to keep her shirt on the first time we had sex… She would rather show me her vagina than her stomach, despite knowing I am a FA and discussing it thoroughly. Both of you latched on to the questions in the wrong way. That line of questioning has only come when I am single and heavily flirting with a girl I am seriously interested in.

FAs are not the answer to all fat women problems. Some FAs a good upstanding people. Some just want to have sex with fat women but never be seen with them in public. Which destroys fat womens self esteem when that happens. I don’t venture into the BBW (non porn) section of Dims very often. A lot of posts over the years have talked about meeting awful FAs, who poison the well. It can be hard to read. That doesn’t stop them from being true. I love the dating site Feabie (how I met my gf), but a lot of fat women say they have had bad interactions there.

I don’t know if you are just nitpicking but “Being a FA is really only relevant to the woman I am dating.” In my life that is true. It doesn’t impact my job. As I am in a happy relationship, I don’t do anything that violates the relationship. Though other fat women know I only date fat women, it doesn’t really effect my day to day life. When in a relationship I don’t excessively flirt with other fat women. Nor do I cheat. Nor do I tell random fat women how beautiful they are. Though a lot of people are aware all of my girlfriends (since getting out of high school) and my ex-wife are all fat. In my adult life, I have not personally been attacked for it.

I am conscious of trying not to sound like I am bragging when I write on Dims. Both my girlfriend and I do like the idea of being role models for young FAs, and fat women. People should go after what they want, and should not accept what society tells them they can have. We see ourselves as activists in a sense. She dresses in clothing flattering to a 350lbs pears body shape. There is not hiding.

I still fail to see the relevance to this thread why I am a FA, especially in a thread about body positivity, but I will repost the story I have posted at least 3 times before on Dims. I don’t have a problem discussing it but it leads off topic.

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...d.php?t=100532 post #18

“It was a specific event for me. When I was 5 years old and still in daycare before kindergarten even. Someone explained to me what fat is, what it looks like in food, on a person, that it is bad for everyone, and thin people look better. Fat was bad.

One of the caretakers at my daycare was a young attractive BBW with very wide hips. It was the 80s so she wore spandex every day. I think I was her favorite kid there because she always seemed to give me lots of attention compared to other kids there. Being 5 years old, I had no social filter and just learning what fat is means I had to point it out. I told her she was fat and she should not be, a few times in a row. She started arguing that she was not fat, and started crying. I saw how much it hurt her saying it. It was also one of my first memories of what I say really effects someone.

And something in my mind snapped. She was fat, but rather than being “bad”, I really liked her. The switch flipped, fat girls are good. Not only was she good, she was attractive. So fat girls are attractive. I noticed she was a bit distant with me after that, so I realized I needed to be nice to fat girls. To me, it was the most obvious life-changing event I have experienced.

Within a few days of that, I was by some guys gawking at a women walking by with large breasts. They made comments to each other about how huge her tits were (she was thin). I noticed that thin girls usually did not have big breasts. Fat girls on the other hand much more often had big breasts. This reconfirmed what I had just learned, fat girls are attractive.

It sounds like a story out of Greek tragedy. I wonder what she would have thought if she knew what happened to me because of it.”
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Old 10-02-2017, 06:26 PM   #54
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If all prejudice against fat people was removed, what issue do you believe FAs would have to face?
There's a couple levels on which this needs to be answered.

1. All prejudice against fat people (or thin people, or tall people, or short people, or people of any given race, creed or religion) will never be removed, so long as human beings have free will. Perhaps you mean institutionalized prejudice, but I won't assume that, because I don't enjoy attacking straw men.
2. While there's no question that FAs face the problem of something they like being attacked, and that problem would be largely resolved be a severe reduction of fat prejudice, that is not the only problem we face, or even the main problem. The main problem is not the attacks of the world, but the attacks from within the fat community, and from fat women themselves. It's not fat prejudice that causes these attacks, but self-loathing, intolerance of uncommon feelings, and the paranoid tendency to imagine up problems where none previously existed.
In order to resolve these issues, we need more than just the reduction of fat prejudice. Fatness must be completely or near-completely normalized, as such. This means not only repairing the broken food, clothing, fashion and entertainment industries, but altering the rules and directives of a few government agencies as well. The medical industry would need to be held to some standards of honesty with regard to this issue, and even then, no headway could be made against this enemy until someone was willing and able to stand up and tell people that fatness is a good thing, which should be appreciated, without fear of having their opinions censored.
That last one, my friend, is virtually the definition of expressing FA feelings.

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Can you restate this as a question that you think I am refusing to answer? I am a very overt FA in real life, to the point that if I pushed it more, I would probably come off as creepy. A lot of my Dimensions posts have touched on this.
If you had a chance to take a public stand, in order to defend the legitimacy and goodness of being an FA, would you do so?

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I think when hearing that a guy likes something about yourself that you loath, it’s natural for your mind to jump to extremes.
Really? I don't understand that, I'm afraid. I mean, I tend to take everything to extremes anyway, but not to the point of assuming something to be correct, when there's no evidence to support it.

Aside from being mortal and imperfect, and having a hard time gaining weight, there isn't really anything I loath about myself either. I suppose the closest thing to this that I can picture is how I felt when someone at work horrified me by saying they thought I'd lost weight, but even then, while I felt scared, and hurt, I didn't start making guesses about their character or habits. I just don't get irrationality.
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Old 10-02-2017, 06:57 PM   #55
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Waldo, just from what you wrote about the distinction of different FAs would have made that article to bloated and any editor would want that removed. Much less a comprehensive discussion of FAs.
On the one hand, the issue is only halfway relevant to this particular instance, if he's not an FA.

On the other hand, whether this particular person is an FA or not, where is the article about us? Where is the comprehensive study on what we're all about? Unless such a thing can be found, it shows that we too are being suppressed by the bias of the culture.

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It was to show the thinking of someone with damaged self esteem. I dated an apple shaped girl, who wanted to keep her shirt on the first time we… She would rather show me her vagina than her stomach, despite knowing I am a FA and discussing it thoroughly.
If you think I don't know what damaged self esteem is, maybe you need to read a little more closely into what I said. I personally suffer from this on a frequent basis, as a result of all the crap I've received for being an outspoken FA. Though I've made peace, largely, with my role in the world, I refuse to settle for anything less than an open endorsement of fatness being available somewhere in the culture. If not, I will provide it myself, at every opportunity, darn it!

See, the thing you and a bunch of other guys (and girls) don't seem to get, is that just because some of us FAs are stuck with a specific set of emotional stimuli doesn't mean we're made of steel. We can be battered into silence and seclusion, just like anyone with self esteem problems, and when you're stuck with feelings that make every pretty girl you meet think you're the devil, you can't blame a guy for wanting some freaking support from time to time!

You seem to approach this entire issue strictly from the perspective of how much FAs can (or can't) do to assist the broken girls we think are pretty, but the truth is, every human being is broken, and everyone needs support!

You talk about how bad FAs have "poisoned the well." All the more reason for the good news about us to surface at every opportunity! People in general need to hear the other side of the story, and they need that story now, now, NOW!

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I don’t know if you are just nitpicking but “Being a FA is really only relevant to the woman I am dating.” In my life that is true. It doesn’t impact my job. As I am in a happy relationship, I don’t do anything that violates the relationship. Though other fat women know I only date fat women, it doesn’t really effect my day to day life. When in a relationship I don’t excessively flirt with other fat women. Nor do I cheat.
That proves that you're intelligent, but not that you're accepted.

Acceptance isn't needed only on one side of this table, you know. Especially among the people who, in many cases, have been blessed with qualities that I can only dream of having. I've read articles online from FAs who face this problem, including one who says he's married to a fat woman, who also has a fat sister, and they both make fun of him for how he feels about his own freaking wife! If you think FAs don't deserve to be treated better than that, then nothing else I say to you will matter either!
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Old 10-02-2017, 11:20 PM   #56
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...Acceptance isn't needed only on one side of this table, you know. Especially among the people who, in many cases, have been blessed with qualities that I can only dream of having. I've read articles online from FAs who face this problem, including one who says he's married to a fat woman, who also has a fat sister, and they both make fun of him for how he feels about his own freaking wife! If you think FAs don't deserve to be treated better than that, then nothing else I say to you will matter either! ...
That's what some FAs fear like the black death, negative comments from friends, colleagues, relative and some people who will see you with your fat friend. My experience as a husband of a SSBBW is you will learn to ignore all these comments. To be honest I haven't got much. Sometimes ill-mannered boys make comments "look, wow" when they see my wife in bathing suits. I consider such comments as an interest in fatness. I guess some of them, when making comments, fantasize what it is like having sex with such a fat wife.
Besides I love to be seen with my fat wife.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:56 AM   #57
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That's what some FAs fear like the black death, negative comments from friends, colleagues, relative and some people who will see you with your fat friend. My experience as a husband of a SSBBW is you will learn to ignore all these comments. To be honest I haven't got much. Sometimes ill-mannered boys make comments "look, wow" when they see my wife in bathing suits. I consider such comments as an interest in fatness. I guess some of them, when making comments, fantasize what it is like having sex with such a fat wife.
Besides I love to be seen with my fat wife.
It's not the comments or opinions of strangers, or of the world that trouble me. However, I feel that there's a lot more standing in the way of FAs being accepted (as legitimate. I'm not talking about whether or not she's interested in him romantically,) by fat women than there is vice versa. That's my point.

Don't get me wrong. There are obstacles to both, and you've just pointed one out, but some of us, at least, don't struggle with those. You don't, for instance, and honestly, being someone who tries to assume the best of people, I take a lot of the same tacks that you just described. I just don't want to be treated like trash by the people I think are pretty, just because I think they're pretty.

P.S.: The reason I draw this distinction between the women themselves, and strangers, is that the opinions of strangers, or even friends or relatives, can be ignored, and won't necessarily impact the closeness of the couple. It's another thing entirely for a woman to say that she can't respect your feelings, and refuses to try to learn about them or humor you (Yes, I have encountered this numerous times.) That's pretty much going to limit any "relationship" to only the physical aspect, and once that happens, what's the point?
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:22 AM   #58
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This story is still not about FAs. If you read a story about football, would you be made that they are not talking about baseball? The strongest argument about FAs that can be made about this article is, the guy might have been a FA, and if so it was not mentioned. Ignoring the whole story about body positivity, to talk about a possible FA, just misses the point of the story.

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It's not fat prejudice that causes these attacks, but self-loathing, intolerance of uncommon feelings, and the paranoid tendency to imagine up problems where none previously existed.
The self loathing is caused by fat prejudice.

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If you had a chance to take a public stand, in order to defend the legitimacy and goodness of being an FA, would you do so?
It’s kind of an odd question. Would this question make any more sense asking, “If you had a chance to take a public stand, in order to defend the legitimacy and goodness only being attracted to thin women, would you do so?

I don’t think there is anything wrong with being a FA, if I could change myself into not being one, I wouldn’t. Is there a value of goodness in being a FA? The strongest sale I could give for FAs would be if a fat woman said, “I really wish there were guys out there that prefer fat women as partners.” I would say something around the lines of “Actually there are, have you heard of fat admirers?”

Unfortunately not all FAs are good people, just like not all non-FAs are good people. There are a lot of fat women who have had bad interactions with FAs. I am not insulting FAs here, but it’s not a healthy idea to be saying that FAs are the solution to fat women’s problems. This is why you can’t say FAs are good for fat women.

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That proves that you're intelligent, but not that you're accepted.
Off topic, and frankly rude.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:35 AM   #59
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I am getting to the point where I think what I am writing is not helping you. This will probably be my last post in the thread.

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I just don't want to be treated like trash by the people I think are pretty, just because I think they're pretty.
There is a line between giving a complement and sexual harassment. It often sounds like you don’t know where the line is. There is a large chance this is causing you frustration in real life.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:38 AM   #60
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Let's go over a few of the things I said last time, to see how they've fared.

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Originally Posted by fuelingfire View Post
Ignoring the whole story about body positivity, to talk about a possible FA, just misses the point of the story.
I asked where the articles about us are. You haven't even addressed this, which was my main point with regard to your first reply, so until you do, we're going to be at an impasse.

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Originally Posted by fuelingfire View Post
The self loathing is caused by fat prejudice.
Even if it could be proved that this was true in all cases (and it can't be,) that still wouldn't address the other two issues I brought forth, so the same problems would still exist, albeit diminished in severity.

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It’s kind of an odd question. Would this question make any more sense asking, “If you had a chance to take a public stand, in order to defend the legitimacy and goodness only being attracted to thin women, would you do so?
Yes, I freaking would, because I think that's true. It is legitimate. The same is true of all other emotions, including the ones that people incessantly discriminate against, like mine.

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Is there a value of goodness in being a FA? The strongest sale I could give for FAs would be if a fat woman said, “I really wish there were guys out there that prefer fat women as partners.” I would say something around the lines of “Actually there are, have you heard of fat admirers?”

Unfortunately not all FAs are good people, just like not all non-FAs are good people. There are a lot of fat women who have had bad interactions with FAs. I am not insulting FAs here, but it’s not a healthy idea to be saying that FAs are the solution to fat women’s problems. This is why you can’t say FAs are good for fat women.
It sounds like you're just making excuses here. I already replied to all of these points, and pointed out that prejudice is never justified. Not all white people, or black people, or Hispanic people are good people either, yet prejudice against all of them as a body is completely unjustified, and I would take a stand that it's a good thing to be white, black or hispanic, because it is. Unless and until being an FA can be treated with the same degree of unambiguous dignity and respect, the enemy still has its claws into us.

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Off topic, and frankly rude.
I said you were intelligent. How is that rude?
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:43 AM   #61
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I am getting to the point where I think what I am writing is not helping you. This will probably be my last post in the thread.

There is a line between giving a complement and sexual harassment. It often sounds like you don’t know where the line is. There is a large chance this is causing you frustration in real life.
I know exactly where the line is. Sexual harassment comes in three type.

1. Unwelcome sexual advances.
2. Requests for sexual favors.
3. Other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.

Notice the key point about all of these three categories. Something must be sexual, in order to be sexual harassment (funny how that works.) I have never in my life made a sexual advance towards anyone. When I remark that I think a person is pretty, I mean no more or less than that. They are, to me, like a waterfall, a sunset over the Pacific, a field of daisies or the painted cliffs; a beauty that inspires and drives one onward. I dearly hope you understand the difference between that and sexual harassment, and that I don't need to further expand on that difference.

Any connection between these things and sexual harassment arises only in the mind of the other person, and only as a result of a sort of Freudian assumption that all expressed emotions and motivations are sexually-based.
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Old 10-03-2017, 05:23 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Blockierer View Post
That's what some FAs fear like the black death, negative comments from friends, colleagues, relative and some people who will see you with your fat friend. My experience as a husband of a SSBBW is you will learn to ignore all these comments. To be honest I haven't got much. Sometimes ill-mannered boys make comments "look, wow" when they see my wife in bathing suits. I consider such comments as an interest in fatness. I guess some of them, when making comments, fantasize what it is like having sex with such a fat wife.
Besides I love to be seen with my fat wife.
This.

I don't see what guys who like fat women "go through". I don't see trials & tribulations because of my attraction to fat women. Even if I did, I'm pretty sure whatever I went through would be nothing compared to what women go through on a daily basis.

Maybe it's because I'm older, or because I am more than comfortable with my SSBBW fiancee on my arm. Maybe because I've rid myself of people who'd judge me based on my partner choices. Maybe it's because I've been known to not react in a nice way when people pointed & laughed, or tried to take pics of the fat women who attended the NJ BBW Bash. Maybe it's a combination of all. Blockierer makes some salient points here. I'm just adding my reasons why his points resonate within me.

Honestly, I think the biggest contribution to Fat Acceptance a guy can make to the movement is to listen to what you mate has to go through, provide understanding & support in any way possible, and to live your life with them the way you would with ANY other person. Others over time will see that, and it will likely lose the shock value that it may initially have.
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:46 PM   #63
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And to put a twist on the start of this discussion, apparently the woman in the photo shoot got fired after the shoot got so much attention.

https://ca.style.yahoo.com/fire-some...164344503.html

I wonder if the same photos had been of a thin woman if it would have drawn the same reaction? (Maybe yes, maybe no, I don't know the people involved in making that decision)
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:40 PM   #64
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I don't see what guys who like fat women "go through".
Is that accidental, or have you heard FAs describe their experiences, and just ignored their testimony?

I don't want to be cruel about this, but listening to a suffering man in a prison describe his wounds, then replying "Well, I don't know why a wound like that would be painful," is not an adequate reply. It doesn't solve anyone's problems or teach anyone anything. It just makes everyone more resentful of each other.

I ask the above question for a purpose. I don't like wasting my words. I could go into some detail about how this difference in my entire aesthetic orientation (in both direction and intensity,) has effected me over the course of my life, but I won't share this story with unreceptive ears. It's too personal to be wasted.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:50 PM   #65
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Is that accidental, or have you heard FAs describe their experiences, and just ignored their testimony?

I don't want to be cruel about this, but listening to a suffering man in a prison describe his wounds, then replying "Well, I don't know why a wound like that would be painful," is not an adequate reply. It doesn't solve anyone's problems or teach anyone anything. It just makes everyone more resentful of each other.

I ask the above question for a purpose. I don't like wasting my words. I could go into some detail about how this difference in my entire aesthetic orientation (in both direction and intensity,) has effected me over the course of my life, but I won't share this story with unreceptive ears. It's too personal to be wasted.
I've spent many years thinking I was wasting my words in the forums here over the years. I still come back though. Maybe I just have a lot of words to waste.

I think we all come here for the dialogue. At least it used to be that way here a long time ago.

We share perspectives here. They're different. I am attracted to fat women, yet have had a completely different experience in dealing with people who are not attracted to fat people. I stand by these comments. I didn't negate your experience or make it any less valid by my statements.
I'm saying that I've never seen what guys who like fat women go through, because either *I* , or the guys who I have gotten to know over the years (either at Dimensions, or who I knew in person through the NJ BBW Bash that I ran with my business partner) have experienced anything that could be considered personally traumatic.

By the way, don't feel like you're wasting your words because I or anyone else hasn't gone through what you feel you've gone through. While you may not change how I look at something, your feelings may resonate deeply with someone else. Just sayin'.
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:09 PM   #66
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By the way, don't feel like you're wasting your words because I or anyone else hasn't gone through what you feel you've gone through. While you may not change how I look at something, your feelings may resonate deeply with someone else. Just sayin'.
That's a good point, though I do have a story I've been working on recently, so I'll try to be brief. Instead of telling the whole story from start to finish, I'll just explain my problem's nature and its current state. I could go into its beginnings as well, but it would only be as further illustration of the point.

I am, to the best of my knowledge, the most extreme example of an emotional FA that I've ever encountered. By this, I mean that fatness is, for me, a deeply emotional thing, over and above any sexual element that it may have, or have ever had, in my life. It's been this way since before I was old enough to know what sex was, and it's continued to be this way, even now that my sexual feelings have ebbed. I have a lot of motivations, but they generally fall into three categories. Ethical truths, non-ethical truths and one or two major passions. Apart from perhaps a love of order (and I say "perhaps," because this might just be part of my motive to pursue truths,) the only driving passion I have is for the qualities of softness and size. I do, of course, develop attachments to other people, when I find them to be compatible with my feelings, but such situations are rare, and most people care more about self-expression than about my company.

Let's just say that if I were to express how strong my feelings are in this area, I think it would worry a lot of people, but I've had these feelings, as I said, since I was a kid.

Of course, the problem with having any strong feelings is learning to control them, so that they don't control you. That took many years and a lot of research and practice to do, because nobody seemed to think it was a good idea to suppress your feelings. Yet, whenever I would speak my feelings freely, people thought that was less of a good idea, so I did what I had to do.

It's only within the last eight years or so that I've been able to piece things together after a long study of philosophy and lots of practice and prayer. Right now, I'm able to hold down a job, I have a car and a lot of people who love me, which is a big deal, because it's all so hard for me, because of how strong and how alien my feelings are to all of them.

However, even now, I have problems, and have been experiencing physiological problems, consistent with heartache or profound loneliness. Indigestion, headaches, nausea, etc... I get these several times a week, when a great depression comes over me, sometimes for hours at a time.

The worst part is that I know exactly why I feel depressed. It's because as a person, I miss out on probably the most essential element of social life; the freedom to express myself to friends. I have no friends who share any of my feelings to the degree that I have them (as far as I know.) I sort of have to make do with passive-aggressive replies whenever someone makes some remark about weight loss that deeply offends me, or just leaving the area in a hurry whenever someone terrifies me by telling me they think I've lost weight. It's not enough, of course, and I write my own feelings out to myself whenever I can, just to get some of this off my chest, but I can never escape the fact that I am too alien to have a confidant. I can never escape that; even here, so my feelings usually either take the shape of sadness or anger (on the inside, though I rarely share these feelings with others, mainly because it wouldn't do any good,) except when I'm intentionally losing myself in some fantasy world, and no longer have to think about who I am on the inside.

This is why I've said, numerous times, that just being fat isn't enough. It's not a body I crave, it's a kindred spirit. I can never have that in real life.

One of my favorite episodes of the Twilight Zone is the episode "Miniature," because I have such incredible sympathy for the main character of Charlie; walking through life without finding any passion or delight in the things that others expect him to, and not really fitting in, no matter how hard he tries to be good to others and give them his best effort. If you haven't seen that episode, I strongly recommend it. It's an amazing study in what it means to feel different than other people do, and how much it can separate a person from others in their normal life (plus, it's the Twilight Zone, so you know something interesting will happen in the end.)

My life has been like that, and I want that state of affairs to stop, more than anything else that I want. This is why I need people to learn the better side of us right now. I'm stuck with a set of feelings that the world (the entire world, including the fat community) is trained from childhood to hate, and worse yet, the behavior and motivations taught by that world (on this issue and a few others) are just as angering to me as I am to them. In fact, part of the reason my current job has worked out so well is that I can spend almost the whole day without significantly encountering the opinions or motivations of my coworkers.

I've studied fatness over the last few years, to try to understand it better, so I can approach it intellectually, rather than emotionally. It only slightly helped, and I still wrestle with basically all the same problems, and every time I see any person, anywhere, spending several minutes talking about some issue that's important to them, some part of me always thinks "Why not me? Why never me?!"

I don't know if all fat girls face this kind of inner turmoil as a result of being perpetually an outsider with their own closest friends and family members, but if so, you have the most profound sympathies possible. There is quite literally no pain in the world that stays with you so often for so long, or hurts so bad as that.

-----

P.S.: On the off chance that you've seen "Miniature" and didn't pick up on the full implications of Charlie's situation, and what his fate would be like in real life, check out the episode review here...

https://tv.avclub.com/the-twilight-z...ure-1798177569

...About halfway down the page. It explains the problem better than I've ever seen it explained.

"In real life, there would be no happy ending to this. At best, he could force himself into a loveless marriage and spend the rest of his life pretending to be someone he wasn’t, inevitably becoming more depressed and lonely as the years passed. In real life, for someone this out of place and breakable, there’d be no perfect fit."
-Zack Handlen-
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:53 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by fuelingfire View Post
Waldo, just from what you wrote about the distinction of different FAs would have made that article to bloated and any editor would want that removed. Much less a comprehensive discussion of FAs. Also, it’s never stated that he is a FA. You can theorize he is being white washed.

Certainly, I would not have expected any substantive (or any at all) discussions of FAs in the article in question. My contention is that (as I described in my previous post) to completely sidestep the question of what the guy REALLY feels about his fiance’s plus-size body leaves questions in the reader’s mind. As I posted previously, even some lukewarm statement to acknowledge his thoughts on her size would lend some credibility: “For the current article, even a vague reference such as ‘he appreciates my full figure / abundant curves’ would have sufficed. “


But, to me, the avoidance of the issue is symbolic of the inherent flaw of the ‘body positivity’ movement.
THAT IS WHY the title of this thread is body positivity versus reality. Reality is that men are driven by physical attraction to the female form – always have been and always will be. If good-looking young Texas dude is not into his woman’s body, then what exactly the hell is he doing engaged to her!? DO YOU REALLY believe her BS statement quoted in the article:"He loves me for who I am, and for who I make him want to become. He has always told me that he doesn’t care how I look"
THAT is body positivity dogma, as in ‘Just love yourself and you will attract males to your positive aura’. Unfortunately, this is simply pie in the sky wishful thinking for the great majority of people.

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I didn’t post the questions I am often asked by women after I explain that I am a FA, because I wanted your answers. No offense but I don’t really care about what other peoples answers are to those questions.

This response is very offensive. It seems you are more interested in talking AT people than engaging in dialogue. It is particularly ironic that you posted this, and then had the audacity to accuse another poster of being rude to you in a subsequent post.

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Originally Posted by fuelingfire View Post
FAs are not the answer to all fat women problems. Some FAs a good upstanding people. Some just want to have sex with fat women but never be seen with them in public. Which destroys fat womens self esteem when that happens.

Yes, because as I acknowledged in my earlier post: even if you could bring all the FAs out of the closet/shadows, there would not be enough to go around for all the multitudes of fat women in our society. But realize that the most logical reason that so many ‘FAs’ just want to have sex and not actual relationships with fat women is because of the stigma (real or perceived) that comes from partnering with a fat woman. Reality is that men are judged on the physical appearance of their partner (your wife's appearance is a status symbol). I can think of no other reason to explain why there are literally ZERO famous entertainers or other famous people who are self-admitted FAs.

FAs aside, I don’t think the solution to the difficulty of fat women attracting quality male companionship is to try to convince men to reevaluate their feelings on what they find attractive. You can’t ‘shame’ men into believing that all women from size 6-26 are sexy.

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I don’t know if you are just nitpicking but “Being a FA is really only relevant to the woman I am dating.” In my life that is true. It doesn’t impact my job. As I am in a happy relationship, I don’t do anything that violates the relationship. Though other fat women know I only date fat women, it doesn’t really effect my day to day life. When in a relationship I don’t excessively flirt with other fat women. Nor do I cheat. Nor do I tell random fat women how beautiful they are. Though a lot of people are aware all of my girlfriends (since getting out of high school) and my ex-wife are all fat. In my adult life, I have not personally been attacked for it.

I am conscious of trying not to sound like I am bragging when I write on Dims. Both my girlfriend and I do like the idea of being role models for young FAs, and fat women. People should go after what they want, and should not accept what society tells them they can have. We see ourselves as activists in a sense. She dresses in clothing flattering to a 350lbs pears body shape. There is not hiding.

IF you want to act as a role model for young FAs (a wonderful aspiration), then by definition your being an FA is not only relevant to the woman you are dating. We may have an issue of semantics here, but whatever.


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I still fail to see the relevance to this thread why I am a FA, especially in a thread about body positivity, but I will repost the story I have posted at least 3 times before on Dims. I don’t have a problem discussing it but it leads off topic.

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...d.php?t=100532 post #18

“It was a specific event for me. When I was 5 years old and still in daycare before kindergarten even. Someone explained to me what fat is, what it looks like in food, on a person, that it is bad for everyone, and thin people look better. Fat was bad.

One of the caretakers at my daycare was a young attractive BBW with very wide hips. It was the 80s so she wore spandex every day. I think I was her favorite kid there because she always seemed to give me lots of attention compared to other kids there. Being 5 years old, I had no social filter and just learning what fat is means I had to point it out. I told her she was fat and she should not be, a few times in a row. She started arguing that she was not fat, and started crying. I saw how much it hurt her saying it. It was also one of my first memories of what I say really effects someone.

And something in my mind snapped. She was fat, but rather than being “bad”, I really liked her. The switch flipped, fat girls are good. Not only was she good, she was attractive. So fat girls are attractive. I noticed she was a bit distant with me after that, so I realized I needed to be nice to fat girls. To me, it was the most obvious life-changing event I have experienced.

Within a few days of that, I was by some guys gawking at a women walking by with large breasts. They made comments to each other about how huge her tits were (she was thin). I noticed that thin girls usually did not have big breasts. Fat girls on the other hand much more often had big breasts. This reconfirmed what I had just learned, fat girls are attractive.

It sounds like a story out of Greek tragedy. I wonder what she would have thought if she knew what happened to me because of it.”
Nearly, everything on this forum is about FAs and fat people; so it is relevant, especially when you yourself brought it up. Your story is interesting. BUT I do not believe that an experience at such a young, prepubescent age could, on its own, put someone on the path to being an FA. I would suggest this experience as a young child is just coincidental with you being an FA. You can believe otherwise, but that doesn’t make it true.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:02 PM   #68
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Maybe this entire discussion should be moved to the FA board?

I think most people (especially those outside our world) looks at it as a guy & his girl who are in love. Whether she happens to be fat, chubby, plump or whatever is a sidenote to the story. If the rest of the world outside of us views her as fat, chubby, plump or whatever is the bonus for body positivity and size accepance, even if not direct.

Coming from an older generation, I can tell you that for years women were told that if they were "overweight" (whatever the hell that means), that no man would ever find them attractive. Articles like this are baby steps into changing that way of thinking. Sure, our view from where we sit in our community reads more into it, but articles like this aren't written for us, they're written so that those who have resisted FA or BP see that those old tales about fat/chubby/plump women not being able to get men are BS.

Of course, those same people then smirk and say "well, I'll bet the dude is a loser". I love when that happens, since it allows me to normalize it when I say "So, is a college grad (with post grad certifications) who owns his own home, has 2 kids and a stepdaughter, a solid white collar job, who goes to church, does charitable work, and has been in a loving relationship with a fat girl a loser?"

If they answer yes, I remind them that the problem isn't with me, it's with them.

I don't talk about this stuff in an arrogant manner. I think that people who go about their lives who just happen to be attracted to women that are a bit different than what is considered "ideal" are no different than those who pursue that same ideal are no different than them, with that one exception. IF those people choose to ridicule, ostracize or do or say anything else negative about those preferences, it says a helluva lot more about who THEY are than about me.

From Waldo's last post:
Quote:
"He loves me for who I am, and for who I make him want to become. He has always told me that he doesn’t care how I look"
THAT is body positivity dogma, as in ‘Just love yourself and you will attract males to your positive aura’. Unfortunately, this is simply pie in the sky wishful thinking for the great majority of people.
It is wishful thinking for a lot of people. It's not for EVERYONE, though. I can only speak from experience. I dated the woman who became my fiancee in 2010. At the time she weighed about 460 lbs. Over the past 7 years, our love has grown deeper to go beyond simply the physical. Somewhat like TwoSwords has described, it's become part of our essence.

So, about a year ago, she was having some physical issues, mostly related to mobility and stamina, and told me over dinner one night that she wanted to get WLS. She was concerned that I'd be less attracted to her, and that component would have a negative effect on our relationship. She had WLS in June of this year, and has lost a total of 80 lbs. From both a physical and emotional standpoint, nothing has changed between us.

A few years ago I blogged about this (If anyone wants to read it, PM me and I'll send you a link), but over the years my body has changed in many ways, but the amazing thing about women is that they have the capacity to remain attracted to me despite those changes. I believe for women, love has everything to do with it. What I've learned over the years is that women deserve that back from me.

I think sometimes the issue gets clouded here when guys who call themselves fat admirers talk about their views or experiences. I would try to make the distinction between a sex only relationship with a woman who's fat, and being in a loving relationship with one. I think the perspectives are very different, and rather than making judgment about the different perspectives (which I did at times in the past), actually listen/read what people are saying/writing about their perspectives. Honestly in all of the posts that I read here, there's nothing wrong with any of these perspectives, as a fat admirer, about what each person writing in this thread wants, and about the article itself. I remind people that I only post here on occasion, coming in now & then when I feel there's a thread that I may have something to contribute that hasn't been mentioned.

The good news is, you all have something in common, which is, an attraction to someone(s) fat. In the old days of Dimensions, that commonality brought a lot of people together, and I learned a lot, not only about people but about smaller subcultures within our community. I lost that over the years, especially as the website changed, and people here became more judgmental (me included). Focus on the common ground and learn more about each other, and keep an open mind when listening to the ideas & opinions of other people. It might just change your opinion on some things, and you might find out that you have more in common with your brothers & sisters here than you realize.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:25 PM   #69
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The good news is, you all have something in common, which is, an attraction to someone(s) fat. In the old days of Dimensions, that commonality brought a lot of people together, and I learned a lot, not only about people but about smaller subcultures within our community. I lost that over the years, especially as the website changed, and people here became more judgmental (me included). Focus on the common ground and learn more about each other, and keep an open mind when listening to the ideas & opinions of other people. It might just change your opinion on some things, and you might find out that you have more in common with your brothers & sisters here than you realize.
As I was doing other stuff, it just occurred to me that maybe you didn't mean to make light of my life experiences, disregard, or even ignore them (though I have no evidence to back this possibility up.) If that should happen to be the case, I have one more thing to say.

You open your comment with the words "I think most people (especially those outside our world) looks at it as a guy & his girl who are in love. Whether she happens to be fat, chubby, plump or whatever is a sidenote to the story."

Now, the thing about new information is that it can often lead people to a larger understanding of various issues. At least, I know that's how it works for me. For this reason, if you have, in fact, read the entire comment that I posted last, and taken some time to think it over, I would suggest that, at the very least, my comment presents sufficient evidence that the way "most people look at it" is not universally correct. Therefore, the most rational approach would be to point this out, so that "most people" can correct the faults in their thought processes. Of course, this is a long and difficult process (getting a message of any sort to reach "most people" takes time and effort,) so why not get started today? Contact one person you know, and let them know about the suffering that social prejudices of this type cause, and have always caused. It may not accomplish much in the short term, but it's the right thing to do.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:22 PM   #70
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So in other words, my first guess was right. You've heard the testimonies of FAs, and just ignored them, as you're doing here. Good to know.
Your first guess was wrong, but feel free to pigeonhole me wherever it's convenient for you. Since you have not responded directly to any of the points I've raised, I hope you realize you're doing the same thing you're accusing me of.

I actually happen to be sympathetic to your situation, despite your claim to the contrary. Based on your previous response to my request that you post, if only for the potential benefit of others, I looked deeper into that post than you think.

It does sound like your struggle is real, and no one can negate that. Yes, I've spoken with literally hundreds of guys who would be considered FAs during my 20+ years around the community. Most (if not almost all) didn't seem to go through what you've described. It doesn't make it any less real for you, though I think because it's so personal in nature, you will likely find difficulty in getting other FAs to buy into what you'd like from them to lessen that burden.

The one thing not mentioned until now, is that whatever you, me or anyone else has gone through, there are fat people of all genders who have experienced far worse, and continue to do so on a minute by minute daily basis, until their heads hit the pillow at night.
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:22 PM   #71
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Your first guess was wrong, but feel free to pigeonhole me wherever it's convenient for you. Since you have not responded directly to any of the points I've raised, I hope you realize you're doing the same thing you're accusing me of.
I'm happy to reply to anything that addresses something I said, as I will now be doing.

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It does sound like your struggle is real, and no one can negate that. Yes, I've spoken with literally hundreds of guys who would be considered FAs during my 20+ years around the community. Most (if not almost all) didn't seem to go through what you've described. It doesn't make it any less real for you, though I think because it's so personal in nature, you will likely find difficulty in getting other FAs to buy into what you'd like from them to lessen that burden.
That's actually quite a fair assessment of the nature and scope of the problem, with my fellow FAs and with everyone else. It is indeed a lousy situation, as you point out.

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The one thing not mentioned until now, is that whatever you, me or anyone else has gone through, there are fat people of all genders who have experienced far worse, and continue to do so on a minute by minute daily basis, until their heads hit the pillow at night.
I'm open to that possibility, as I said at the end of my outline of my problem. However, keep in mind that although my discomfort and alienation have been brobdingnagian, (and sympathy would be nice,) the thing I really want is a solution, for myself, and for everyone else who faces problems of this degree. Everyone else. Not some over others. I wouldn't accept a solution that involved me using someone else as essentially a scratching post, because that doesn't solve the problem; it just passes it to someone else. Any authentic solution to our problems will need to be a solution that takes all of us into account; FA and fat person alike. That's my point.

You also seem to be pointing in the direction of our degree of suffering having something to do with our rights as people, but since you haven't said this directly, and I don't want to make another stupid assumption, I'll hold off on addressing this yet.

P.S.: My initial response to you was only as a result of the extremely personal nature of my second-to-last comment, and the fact that you didn't seem to be addressing what I'd said. I hope you'll accept my apology for jumping the gun.
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