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Old 10-29-2017, 06:31 AM   #1
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Default Article - The Online Dating Weight Gap

http://www.refinery29.com/2017/10/17...ctures-filters

I have wanted to start a thread about this for awhile but wanted a link to go with it. Thoughts? or comments on experiences.

Edit:
I read posts #2-7 before this edit. Well, I just wanted to start a thread about online dating for the fat and F/FA dating community. Whether it’s about websites that are exclusive to fat admiration or mainstream. It’s just a topic that I think relates to the Dims community that seems to at most get hinted about, but not really discussed. I thought this like could be a good jumping point for discussion about it. I was hoping for real world examples whether good or bad. So I will make a post at #8.

Though it’s unfortunate that she makes it sound like FAs are beneath her, but I wasn’t really expecting that to be the focus of the thread.
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Last edited by fuelingfire; 10-30-2017 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Trying to redirect the conversation to what I had intended it to be about.
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Old 10-29-2017, 06:47 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by fuelingfire View Post
http://www.refinery29.com/2017/10/17...ctures-filters

I have wanted to start a thread about this for awhile but wanted a link to go with it. Thoughts? or comments on experiences.
My thoughts are that the study is ambiguous, largely due to being based on statistics that it's impossible to confirm, or even pin down what they mean. Let me explain what I mean.

It says that "57% of female app users reporting some kind of harassment." According to what definition of harassment? Was there a definition given to the women who took the survey, or was this just an observation on how many of these women used the word "harassment" to describe dating service experiences that didn't work out?

It says "WooPlus found that 71% of its 1,000 users reported having been fat-shamed on 'regular' apps." According to what definition of "fat-shamed?" Are we talking about people who directly criticized them for their weight, and deliberately tried to make them feel ashamed of it, or just people who raised the topic and wanted to talk about it? Again, as with the term "harassment," there's what a word really means, and the way the term is used culturally. An ambiguous and undefined term muddies the issue.

It's a shame, since if this study were more direct and specific about its terminology, it might actually be able to inform us whether dating apps are really hotbeds of shaming and mean-spiritedness, or whether this is just a sign of too many women perceiving certain things as shaming and harassment, when they're not meant as such. As it is, we have no data one way or the other.

"The major culprit here, according to Cristina Escobar, the Director of Communications at The Representation Project, is actually the media."

Well, of course. There's no question that mass media is guilty of many crimes against healthy relationships, but when she says "We have this really narrow definition about who is valuable, and that rarely includes women at all, let alone women of color and women who are plus," I must disagree. The problem is not that "we" have a narrow definition of who has value. The problem is the dissonance between people about how much value people have, vs the qualities that they possess.

In my experience, there's a lot of misunderstanding between men and women about where value should be primarily placed in relationships, and while that's nothing new in a certain sense, I think that our culture (especially the media and the education system) have helped to discourage self-reflection; the only ability that might allow us to head off interpersonal problems on our own end, instead of blaming other people for all of our woes, and that has made the misunderstandings immeasurably worse, because at one time, when a man and a women met, and didn't metaphorically "speak the same language," each would put effort into trying to understand what the other was saying. Now, when that happens, the woman folds her arms indignantly, the man throws up his hands in disgust, and each is thinking that the other is a total jerk.

Not long ago, I heard someone online remark that she went on a date with guy who seemed kind and enthusiastic at first, but who just kept giving her compliments on her physical appearance all evening, and from that, she drew the conclusion that he was just a shallow jerk (my words; not hers. Her description of him was much less flattering.) I replied, saying that it sounded like he wanted to pour out his heart to her by telling her about his feelings, and sharing them with the one person in the world who should most be able to appreciate and sympathize with them. She, in fairness, took my reply very well, but the point is that I think that a lack of clear communication, or willingness to learn about others, and an over-eagerness to condemn others, and blame them for your problems is responsible for a lot of the issues we face today.

Of course, I think the primary crime of the media against the healthy relationship is its excessive fixation on sex. If the media were less fixated on sex, young men and women would think about it less often, and they might actually get the chance to learn about one another, instead of either jumping right to sexual requests, or assuming that every motive of the other person must be a sexual one.

"We know that women in particular are really frustrated at how dating apps are set up to be incredibly focused on appearance."

Again, blaming others for your problems. If you don't want someone talking about your appearance, don't go looking for a date. That's where the "gap" lies; learning to accept compliments when you receive them.

-----

P.S.: I was just reading further down the article and came across this example of what I was talking about.

""OkCupid has questions that focus on body shape — like, 'Can overweight people still be sexy?' or 'Are you disgusted by the extremely obese?'" Ho says. OkCupid has come under fire for some of these fat-phobic questions"

If these are genuine, yes-or-no questions, there's nothing at all fat-phobic about asking people whether they can feel attracted to people with a certain appearance. It's quite impossible for some of us to ever form a solid relationship connection with someone we can't sympathize with, and for some of us, appearance is a big part of that.

Now, granted, the questions could be phrased in such a way as to accommodate more people. For instance, they could be phrased...

1. Are overweight people sexy in your eyes?
2. Do you find the extremely obese unattractive?

Bam. The same overall distinction is made, and people are still given a chance to explain what kind of companionship they can deal with, but now, a "yes" answer to that first question means more, and a "no" answer to the second also means more. However, I see this as just a weakness in phrasing, which falls under the heading of semantic streamlining; not a sign that someone is out to get you.

And finally...

"'I could go on sites specifically for plus women, but I don't want to do that,' Delarato says. 'I'm not a category. I'm part of the larger community, and I deserve to be there. I'm the same as a straight-sized person. So just treat me the same.'"

What a backhanded remark that is. What is she saying about guys like me, who are incapable of appreciating the beauty of thin people? Am I somehow less of a person because of the category I'm stuck in? That's what it sounds like she's saying to me. If she wants to head off a few relationship issues, no longer insulting decent people in this way is an opportunity to do so.
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:15 PM   #3
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"I could go on sites specifically for plus women, but I don't want to do that,"Delarato says. "I'm not a category. I'm part of the larger community, and I deserve to be there. I'm the same as a straight-sized person. So just treat me the same."
What a backhanded remark that is. What is she saying about guys like me, who are incapable of appreciating the beauty of thin people? Am I somehow less of a person because of the category I'm stuck in? That's what it sounds like she's saying to me. If she wants to head off a few relationship issues, no longer insulting decent people in this way is an opportunity to do so.


She's saying she's part of the larger community. As I see it, the only way you could feel insulted (or excluded) by that is if you are not a member of the larger community.

Which is absurd, because you are, as are we all.

So it's insulting to you that she doesn't want to be seen as an outcast?



You've made many remarks about people being insulted for no good reason.

Now you can cite another example.
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by fuelingfire View Post
http://www.refinery29.com/2017/10/17...ctures-filters

I have wanted to start a thread about this for awhile but wanted a link to go with it. Thoughts? or comments on experiences.
Seems more like a string of anecdotes than a study, really.*

This does not discount the testimonies of those interviewed, however, as life (and experience) itself is anecdotal, rather than statistical.


Sure, it seems the commodification of people seeking companionship has precipitated a more callous mindset amongst those who consider themselves 'consumers', but this is not unique to the online scene, nor is it limited to interactions with people of size.

As such, the article itself provides little of anything that is new. Haters gonna hate, users gonna use, abusers gonna abuse.

Sadly.


I'm curious to read your take on it, fuelingfire. Perhaps there's something I'm missing.




*Edit: Upon re-reading your post, I see you never claimed it was a study. That claim was posited by a subsequent poster. You have my apologies.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:00 AM   #5
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She's saying she's part of the larger community. As I see it, the only way you could feel insulted (or excluded) by that is if you are not a member of the larger community.

Which is absurd, because you are, as are we all.

So it's insulting to you that she doesn't want to be seen as an outcast?
Sort of. I am in a minority category, whether I want to be or not. I have no choice. I'm stuck there. Now, her remark, which, remember, was...

"I could go on sites specifically for plus women, but I don't want to do that,"Delarato says. "I'm not a category. I'm part of the larger community, and I deserve to be there. I'm the same as a straight-sized person. So just treat me the same."

Essentially implies that she is too good for this "category" in which I am stuck. By saying you don't want to be an "outcast," you imply that there are people who are "outcasts," and that they are less worthy than you are of being treated with the same level of respect. That is why I say it's insulting.

The worst part is that she didn't need to say this at all. If she'd just said something like "That's just not the kind of experience I'm looking for right now," I wouldn't have raised issue with it, but by denigrating "categories" of people as being somehow less part of the larger community, she has shown that she doesn't see people like me as worthy of respect. More than that, I would say her motives are not about finding happiness, but about bolstering her own pride, which is something that no one should prioritize in their dealings with other people.

In short, I'm not saying I'm not part of the larger community in a certain sense (as you say, in some sense, we all are,) however, she is saying that, if not overtly, then by what her words about these groups and their members imply.
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:56 AM   #6
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As I read it, she's talking not about being better than anyone else, but about equality.

For example, in the 1960s, African-Americans in some US states weren't allowed in restaurants with white people. While they were treated equally in the restaurants they were allowed to enter, they didn't have equality in society as a whole. That's all she wants. Equality and respect.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:27 PM   #7
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As I read it, she's talking not about being better than anyone else, but about equality.

For example, in the 1960s, African-Americans in some US states weren't allowed in restaurants with white people. While they were treated equally in the restaurants they were allowed to enter, they didn't have equality in society as a whole. That's all she wants. Equality and respect.
This comparison doesn't work, because as far as I can tell, no one is demanding that fat people go to different restaurants, use different drinking fountains or be forbidden from voting. We're talking about the dating scene; a purely social environment, and in that environment, a lot will be governed by what each person wants out of the relationship. Some people, like myself, cannot find happiness in a relationship with anyone, unless they share certain interests and passions, and it's for that reason that we go to sites where people who share those interests/passions are more likely to gather. This does not make us less a part of the larger world, nor does it disrespect us, nor does it make us unequal. It is nothing more or less than a social construct, designed to help us find the kinds of people who we can tolerate, so that we don't need to sift through an ocean of people who are too different from us, before we find someone who shares our interests. To compare the process of being selective when seeking out companionship with racial discrimination is, quite frankly, absurd and a little offensive.

I would argue that, in fact, one can never expect to get respect from everyone, and that equality is in some ways universal, and in other ways unattainable. This is a consequence of the existence of human free will; not a result of our social systems. As I see it, if a man and a woman go onto a website and meet each other, hit it off and fall in love, whether they met on a website related to a specialized interest that they share, or a more generic one doesn't matter. The relationship is still a relationship in both cases, and it's false to imply that one is more legitimate than the other.

My point is that the way she puts it, fat people deserve a lesser degree of segregation than FAs do. If she isn't looking for an FA, then I don't really get that, but fine. That's up to her. She can just say that. But when someone says of my very identity as a person, that it's demeaning and disrespectful to them, and somehow makes them "less equal" than they deserve, I reserve the right to point out how disrespectful and callous such comments are to me. After all, if special interest websites demean her, what is she implying about everyone else who makes use of them?

My points about the implications of her statement for those of us unable to remove ourselves from "categories," and about the role of pride in these motives have remained unaddressed.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:52 PM   #8
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For anyone who jumped to this post I edited the first post in the hopes of guiding the thread in the direction I had intended it to go. So here is an online dating story.

As a guy, I haven’t really run into any odd women online. It seems to be women who have more of the horror stories. So I am going to tell my girlfriends story about the guy she met on Feabie before she met me. She talked to this guy for a while. They had similar interests. No flirting had been going on, or any sexual topics discussed. They agreed to meet in person, at a restaurant. He decided to bring gift. When she opened it up, the guy got her anal beads. FIRST meeting! She excused herself to go to be bathroom and snuck out. Luckily for me she kept using Feabie.
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Last edited by fuelingfire; 10-30-2017 at 02:53 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-30-2017, 03:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by fuelingfire View Post
For anyone who jumped to this post I edited the first post in the hopes of guiding the thread in the direction I had intended it to go. So here is an online dating story.

As a guy, I haven’t really run into any odd women online. It seems to be women who have more of the horror stories. So I am going to tell my girlfriends story about the guy she met on Feabie before she met me. She talked to this guy for a while. They had similar interests. No flirting had been going on, or any sexual topics discussed. They agreed to meet in person, at a restaurant. He decided to bring gift. When she opened it up, the guy got her anal beads. FIRST meeting! She excused herself to go to be bathroom and snuck out. Luckily for me she kept using Feabie.
My first, and only experience on Feabie so far has been putting in as much information about myself as possible (sadly not very much,) and discovering that despite highlighting only "FA," I had managed to get the attention of precisely one thin girl who was also an FA. I probably should have contacted her, because maybe we could have been friends, but I was disappointed how, on her profile, she seemed to dislike fatness on herself. It was certainly far from the worst experience I've ever had online with girls, and much better than some of the bad experiences I've had in person. Yes, I have been laughed at, treated with scorn, disgust and ridicule by the very people I was complimenting, and I've had one person in particular tell me she hated me for liking her, but on the whole, most of the people I've approached haven't brought up sex, directly or otherwise. Also...

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Though it’s unfortunate that she makes it sound like FAs are beneath her, but I wasn’t really expecting that to be the focus of the thread.
I agree. That is unfortunate. However, it jumps out at me, because I've seen this kind of attitude from a lot of women, and I'm pretty sore about it. Honestly, I still think it's "odd" that anyone would take offense over a well-meant and maturely-stated compliment, which is not sexual in nature, so in that sense, I guess you could say I've met lots of "odd" women online, and heard from far more than I've personally met.

I think that far from online dating becoming more generic, we should be able to input more information about our likes, dislikes, preferences, passions, phobias and so on, to make things simpler. In particular, I like the idea of Feabie expanding its tag for FAs into five or six tags, specifying what kind of FA (whether the person likes fat in romantic partners, in non-romantic partners and friends, and/or in themselves, whether they are a preferential FA or an exclusive (can they feel romantically towards thin people too?) and maybe a few other specifications I haven't heard of yet, and a field for a brief synopsis of our major passions, fears and hangups, if not the option to post full-on messages to one's own profile. Anything to help people get the right idea about who you are, what you're like, and what you're into. As I've said before, I love truth, and I love having more information than I need. It's having less that's a problem.
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:00 PM   #10
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Edit:
I read posts #2-7 before this edit. Well, I just wanted to start a thread about online dating for the fat and F/FA dating community. Whether it’s about websites that are exclusive to fat admiration or mainstream. It’s just a topic that I think relates to the Dims community that seems to at most get hinted about, but not really discussed. I thought this like could be a good jumping point for discussion about it. I was hoping for real world examples whether good or bad. So I will make a post at #8.


Cool. Thanks for clarifying. You didn't owe me that, but were kind enough to do so.

As I have no experience with online dating sites, I'll bow out of this conversation now, rather than continue to take it further off-topic.
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:11 PM   #11
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Cool. Thanks for clarifying. You didn't owe me that, but were kind enough to do so.

As I have no experience with online dating sites, I'll bow out of this conversation now, rather than continue to take it further off-topic.
Nothing to feel bad about. I should have written more in the original post.
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:37 PM   #12
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I've been on a few dating sites in my time, though I'm not sure what experiences you are asking for in general?

My experiences with 'regular' dating sites has been awful. My experience with dating sites in the asexual community has been better, but still no long lasting relationships or friendships. I've had dates with people across varies fatty-loving sites and have a whole bunch of great friends I've met along the way. So in that way, it's obvious which works best for me.

Neither of my two long term relationships were through dating sites, though both started online. And both were with chubby FAs. I guess I'm just magnetic to my fellow chubs.
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:41 PM   #13
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Loopy, Your relationships started online, where did you meet? It never occurred to me that there would be dating sites for asexuals. Kind of seems silly I never thought of it. I learned something new.

Well it could really cover anything related to it. This isn’t meant as a straightforward list to answer but any of these could be talked about. People answering don’t need to be FA/FFAs. Everyone is welcome to answer.

Why do you prefer online dating/or prefer not to?
Which sites do you like or dislike and why?
Do you prefer mainstream dating site to fat related one?
Anything that you didn’t expect that happened when you met the person?
Has anyone behaved like in the article, where you reject a person, only to have them turn around and say you are fat anyways? I know many fat women in real life who have had that happen.
Any odd real-life FA experiences? I know that might be opening a can of worms.
If you are fat, but prefer looking at non-FAs, what is the reasoning? Please be polite.
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:51 PM   #14
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Here is another story.

My girlfriends best friend is fat. She is an apple shape. She likes to use Tinder for hooking up but is never able to make the hookups become relationships. She met a FA through Tinder. The first one she met in real life, not counting me. Before they met up, he has already told her that his current goal in life is to get a car, so he can go out and “fuck chicks” he can’t do that at his moms… should have been the first warning.

She drives an hour to pick him up. He just wants to go back to her place. They do. She said he just focused on her stomach during all of sex. She felt like he was only attracted to part of her body. He slept in the next morning until 2 in the afternoon and wanted nothing to do with her. Making the hour drive to drop him off, that much more odd.

She now is not much of a fan of the idea of dating a FA, but is not totally opposed to it.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:21 AM   #15
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Loopy, Your relationships started online, where did you meet? It never occurred to me that there would be dating sites for asexuals. Kind of seems silly I never thought of it. I learned something new.

Well it could really cover anything related to it. This isn’t meant as a straightforward list to answer but any of these could be talked about. People answering don’t need to be FA/FFAs. Everyone is welcome to answer.

Why do you prefer online dating/or prefer not to?
Which sites do you like or dislike and why?
Do you prefer mainstream dating site to fat related one?
Anything that you didn’t expect that happened when you met the person?
Has anyone behaved like in the article, where you reject a person, only to have them turn around and say you are fat anyways? I know many fat women in real life who have had that happen.
Any odd real-life FA experiences? I know that might be opening a can of worms.
If you are fat, but prefer looking at non-FAs, what is the reasoning? Please be polite.
The first one I met on an art website and the second one I met on youtube. And yeah, there are a fair few asexual dating sites; acebook, asexualitic, celibate pals etc etc. The people I met were always nice, but I guess I never really clicked with any of them as friends or as partners. On the other hand, I met one of my best friends on a general asexuality site and my partner is also asexual.

I've never really dated much IRL. I'm not exactly all that into dating in general and it honestly doesn't even tend to enter my mind to see people in that way most of the time. Not going to lie, the pool for fat, FA, asexual-friendly partners isn't exactly huge and it's kinda awkward to figure these things out in person.

I don't think I dislike any sites? There have been ones that weren't helpful for me but I wouldn't say I disliked them. On regular dating sites I mostly got thin guys message me despite saying that I was looking for somebody twice my weight or more. As for fat dating sites, curvage is alright, feabie is better though it has a lot of problems, and the specific FFA ones tend to be dead as a dodo.

I've never had anyone use that silly 'your fat anyway' line on me, but I did have one guy that thought he was entitled to get with me because he likes fat chicks. This was on a regular dating site. We had a conversation about his weight loss and he asked me a few curious questions about me being an FFA, including whether or not I found him more attractive before he lost weight. He started lamenting that he lost weight to be more attractive to women and when I very politely told him that I wasn't attracted to him and perhaps he should look elsewhere, his reply was "But I like fat girls!" as though that somehow meant I was obliged to like him back. Hahaha, nope.

Honestly, I'm probably the 'odd FA' in the situation! The trick is to date people that know and either share your preferences or are very comfortable in their own body. That way you can having stuffing session with people, rub their bellies and generally be a massive perv without them complaining.
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:18 AM   #16
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I have only used Match, OKCupid, and Feabie.

I did notice with Match that I was getting contacted by people who seemed more established in life in comparison to OkCupids. I have heard that the paywall to join keeps out some people who are less serious about dating. I would say that 95% of the women who contacted me ignored that I stated a preference for fat women in my profile, and were actually thin.

I like Feabie. It has far fewer people in my area. I can defiantly see why people don’t like it. So many adult models use it for advertising, which can turn off a lot of people. And pressure people into thinking they have to show their bodies to get attention. But if you meet someone on there, you don’t have to explain what a FA is, or worry about a reaction to letting someone know you are a FA. Though I have not been single in over a year, I leave my profile up trying to show that there are people who use it as a dating site. I don’t login though.

As I am not, single I am not looking into any of these. But am interested in hearing stories about them.

Though WooPlus sounds interesting, I dislike the idea of Tinder, and by extension don’t think I would seriously try it if I was single.

A lot of fat youtubers say they have a lot of luck on plenty of fish. But I have not really heard an explanation why. I have heard it described as being similar to OkCupid.

I had not heard of Curvage, and don’t know anything about it.

Bumble sounds interesting to me. But it is also possible that I misunderstand what it is. I have heard it called, “The Feminist Dating Site” where only women can contact men. As a lean male FA, this might give a higher chance of finding a partner who is in a body positive mindset. I am not sure how different the format is to Tinder.
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Old 11-05-2017, 07:23 AM   #17
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I've never had anyone use that silly 'your fat anyway' line on me, but I did have one guy that thought he was entitled to get with me because he likes fat chicks. This was on a regular dating site. We had a conversation about his weight loss and he asked me a few curious questions about me being an FFA, including whether or not I found him more attractive before he lost weight. He started lamenting that he lost weight to be more attractive to women and when I very politely told him that I wasn't attracted to him and perhaps he should look elsewhere, his reply was "But I like fat girls!" as though that somehow meant I was obliged to like him back. Hahaha, nope.
That reminds me of the last thin woman I ever dated. She had actually been fat before I met her. When I met her she was at her thinnest. When we were fooling around, she said everyone has a fetish, and she wanted to know what mine was. I refused to tell her. Not out of trying to be in the closet. I couldn’t tell someone who worked so hard to lose around a hundred pounds, you would look better if you decided to pig out and get your old body back.
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