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Old 02-14-2018, 02:38 PM   #1
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Default Superiority in FAness

So some comments on another thread really got me thinking about this: We all know FAs love fat bodies in a sexual manner. But do they also enjoy it because it makes them feel superior?

Here's the thread in question:
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...d.php?t=123841

Please don't pick on people in that thread though, or make this a personal thing about them, I just want to have a general discussion about this.

One user (@happily_married) mentions a couple of times that he is a physically fit, attractive male. His wife is 400 lbs. And he (and his wife) love the weird glances and the disapproving looks that people give. He likes the idea that people wonder "how the heck is she with him?!" Now, this is a perfectly acceptable, okay thing to feel. So guys, please don't attack him. He's only human, as are the rest of us. But my question is, is that a fairly common thing among FAs, or is it rarer?

I too have had thoughts similar to happilymarried's when I'm with my girlfriend. I'm tall, reasonably good looking, a top student since forever, and I give the appearance of being somewhat muscular (I'm actually not, it's just my weird bone structure, but with clothes on I look pretty strong for no reason). My girlfriend is a BBW (a beautiful, intelligent, kind, funny, loving BBW, but a BBW nonetheless). And I like to imagine that strangers we meet wonder "how the heck is she with him?!", just as happilymarried does. I feel a little guilty for this, but I know it is just thoughts and as long as I don't start seeing her as inferior (never. Ever.) it's okay.

But I'm curious, how many of you others have these thoughts on occasion?
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:01 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by UserNameName View Post
So some comments on another thread really got me thinking about this: We all know FAs love fat bodies in a sexual manner. But do they also enjoy it because it makes them feel superior?

Here's the thread in question:
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/fo...d.php?t=123841

Please don't pick on people in that thread though, or make this a personal thing about them, I just want to have a general discussion about this.

One user (@happily_married) mentions a couple of times that he is a physically fit, attractive male. His wife is 400 lbs. And he (and his wife) love the weird glances and the disapproving looks that people give. He likes the idea that people wonder "how the heck is she with him?!" Now, this is a perfectly acceptable, okay thing to feel. So guys, please don't attack him. He's only human, as are the rest of us. But my question is, is that a fairly common thing among FAs, or is it rarer?

I too have had thoughts similar to happilymarried's when I'm with my girlfriend. I'm tall, reasonably good looking, a top student since forever, and I give the appearance of being somewhat muscular (I'm actually not, it's just my weird bone structure, but with clothes on I look pretty strong for no reason). My girlfriend is a BBW (a beautiful, intelligent, kind, funny, loving BBW, but a BBW nonetheless). And I like to imagine that strangers we meet wonder "how the heck is she with him?!", just as happilymarried does. I feel a little guilty for this, but I know it is just thoughts and as long as I don't start seeing her as inferior (never. Ever.) it's okay.

But I'm curious, how many of you others have these thoughts on occasion?
Um, no. You will find answers will vary. If what you wrote is your takeaway from that thread, you interpreted things that were never said. Or maybe multiple peoples' takeaways from that thread, I am not sure why it snowballed in the last few days.

I have exercised my whole life, and come from a family of exercisers. I physically feel like something is wrong if I take a few days off from exercising. I consider working out to be a hobby, not some chore to achieve a short term goal. I enjoy that mainstream society, finds an athletic body attractive.

This is 100% unrelated to being attracted to fat women. I consider my girlfriend to be my equal. I would not want to be with someone I look down upon. That just seems awful and sad.

I loath that society sees fat people as somehow being lesser than thin people.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:21 PM   #3
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Do you really believe it's "an ok thing to feel" that you enjoy having people wonder why you're with your wife?
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:42 PM   #4
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Do you really believe it's "an ok thing to feel" that you enjoy having people wonder why you're with your wife?
I am not sure what you are talking about. I got divorced in 2014. Feel free to quote me.

I enjoy helping people realize I am not settling for my partner. But that is hardly the same thing as what you said.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:48 PM   #5
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e. He likes the idea that people wonder "how the heck is she with him?!" Now, this is a perfectly acceptable, okay thing to feel.?
According to your post, it's acceptable to like the idea of people wondering why she's with him.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:03 PM   #6
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According to your post, it's acceptable to like the idea of people wondering why she's with him.
You chose to quote UserNameName’s interpretation of that thread. No offense to UNN, but at least on my part, that is an inaccurate way to describe anything I wrote or feel.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:32 PM   #7
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I feel I should respond since it was my thread that inspired this one. First I’d like to clarify some things:

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Originally Posted by UserNameName View Post
One user (@happily_married) mentions a couple of times that he is a physically fit, attractive male. His wife is 400 lbs. And he (and his wife) love the weird glances and the disapproving looks that people give. He likes the idea that people wonder "how the heck is she with him?!" Now, this is a perfectly acceptable, okay thing to feel. So guys, please don't attack him. He's only human, as are the rest of us. But my question is, is that a fairly common thing among FAs, or is it rarer?
I don’t LIKE that people cast judgmental stares or openly question why fit guys would prefer overweight partners. While people’s reactions can sometimes be amusing to me, in the big picture those reactions are symptomatic of society not valuing overweight people on the same level as they do other body types. That is a reality I do not like. At all.

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I too have had thoughts similar to happilymarried's when I'm with my girlfriend. I'm tall, reasonably good looking, a top student since forever, and I give the appearance of being somewhat muscular (I'm actually not, it's just my weird bone structure, but with clothes on I look pretty strong for no reason). My girlfriend is a BBW (a beautiful, intelligent, kind, funny, loving BBW, but a BBW nonetheless). And I like to imagine that strangers we meet wonder "how the heck is she with him?!", just as happilymarried does. I feel a little guilty for this, but I know it is just thoughts and as long as I don't start seeing her as inferior (never. Ever.) it's okay.
I would also be careful about making statements like the bolded. I am guessing you don’t mean it this way, but a lot of readers would read that statement and have good reason to conclude the writer believes BBWs who are “beautiful, intelligent, kind, funny, etc...” are not the norm. Common stereotypes are that overweight women are less intelligent, less successful, unpleasant to be around, selfish, etc. When we make statements like “I date a BBW but she’s an intelligent, beautiful BBW” we are actually reinforcing these stereotypes because we are signaling she is an exception to the norm.

Now...with all that said, I’ll address the original question.

I do not feel superior to anyone for having a preference for fat women. It’s a preference and with preference there is often no universally right or wrong answer. I like one thing, the next guy likes another. I do not fault men for not liking fat women though I think they have no idea what they’re missing. You cannot force preference (though I believe preference can change over time).

Keep in mind that one of the factors that prompted me to start the thread linked above is that people are judging me for my preference. If I truly believe that’s wrong on their part it would be bad form of me to judge others for their preference just because it does not align with mine. I don’t think I possess any special insight just because I once overcame my own hesitations and decided to give fat women a chance. But who am I to judge a guy who doesn’t feel that way? It’s not unreasonable to seek a partner with whom you can share interests and activities.

Also, like Fuelingfire, I do not think myself superior to my wife in any way. I do not feel I’ve married down, settled, etc. In fact if anything the opposite is true. I feel like I’m the lucky one here. And I’m actually the more submissive partner in my relationship by a considerable margin. I do nothing that does not have her approval. Still, when push comes to shove we are equals.

A final note on preference, specifically FA preference, is that while one may indeed have a “type” it is probably a bad idea to overtly advertise that preference. Doing so reduces the individual. A white guy who prefers AA women is far better served by letting his dating/partnering patterns do his speaking than by saying “I like black women.” Likewise an FA is better off just letting his preference exhibit itself than place a billboard by the highway proclaiming it. Nothing undermines a woman’s sense of identity and uniqueness like hearing a guy say “I like fat women.”

Ask me how I know.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:40 AM   #8
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The OP wasn't suggesting that FA feel superior for being FA. He was questioning why he and others derive enjoyment from the surprise surrounding him being an FA. Fat is not viewed as a desirable trait, because most people in modern Western culture find fat to be aesthetically and sexually unattractive, as well as an indication of negative personal behavior (lazy, undisciplined, careless,). It would therefore make sense that a man with a fat woman would himself be less desirable.

There'd likely be no shock from outsiders if a fat woman were with an unattractive or less socially desirable man. IOW it's reasonable to assume his being ugly, poor, or stupid means his choices are limited. Surprise from outsiders would happen only if they viewed the man as superior.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:33 AM   #9
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I would be very wary of dating some "FAs" because of this. I feel like some may like the idea of being on a higher hierarchy than their BBW. I do not get this impression from happilymarried, or even you, as you seem to be actually FAs. But, I have seen it on another website that I visit called 'Feabie.' A lot of the folks over there are wild, and I have found it is the non-FAs that are more likely to display the type of characteristics you worry of.

It seemed as though some of the thinner "FAs" on there have a saviour complex, and feel as though they are doing BBWs a favour by giving us attention. So, when some of them are rejected, and BBWs set certain standards for themselves, they lash out and seem bewildered at how that can be.

I think the ones us BBWs should be most wary of are the ones who aren't really FAs. Rather, they are men without specific preference for fat women, and perhaps they are a little unattractive themselves for whatever reason. They specifically target BBWs online, because they think we'll lower our standards, and they want a girlfriend that'll make them feel better about themselves. It's the reason they lash out if a BBW dares to reject them!

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Old 02-15-2018, 02:08 PM   #10
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Now away from personal perceptions and examples - 90% of men are more comfortable feeling superior to their female partner.
Simply because it still is the ruling social stereotype and today's men were raised along those patterns, whether openly or unwittingly.

Being a average sized man = conforming to social norm with a fat woman = an unattractive woman deviating from the social norm in the for women most undesirable way - the FA automatically has such a superior position to the BBW that even stable egos will fall for.

And don't anybody try and rationalize that it's the same for FFAs - because it isn't. BHMs can compensate size with other social status indicators, starting with height over money or professional position. Fat women have no generally, socially acknowledged means of compensation for their weight.
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:06 AM   #11
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....One user (@happily_married) mentions a couple of times that he is a physically fit, attractive male. His wife is 400 lbs. And he (and his wife) love the weird glances and the disapproving looks that people give. He likes the idea that people wonder "how the heck is she with him?!" .....
I'm in the same boot as happily_married. I'm a fit guy and married to a 5"3', 410 lbs woman. I hope people see that I love fat women especially my fat wife.
When I decided to date fat women I knew that I will get lots of disapproving looks and maybe rude comments. Despite disapproving looks, I'm still in good physical and mental condition. Just to mention, after being with my wife for 15 years in most cases I do not notice looks. It's not important what other people think.

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...woman deviating from the social norm in the for women most undesirable way
Nice phrase!
I'm happy that at least one of these deviating women fell for me.
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:31 PM   #12
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Now away from personal perceptions and examples - 90% of men are more comfortable feeling superior to their female partner.
Simply because it still is the ruling social stereotype and today's men were raised along those patterns, whether openly or unwittingly.

Being a average sized man = conforming to social norm with a fat woman = an unattractive woman deviating from the social norm in the for women most undesirable way - the FA automatically has such a superior position to the BBW that even stable egos will fall for.
I don’t know if “feeling superior” is how I would word it but I think I understand the overall idea you’re communicating. And I definitely know or know of enough men about whom “feeling superior” is without question the best way to describe their dynamic with women. These are the types who run roughshod over their wives, try to make all the decisions without her input, etc. In a lot of these cases there is probably some underlying insecurity. Maybe being anything short of “in full control” is “unmasculine.” I don’t know. I’m not that kind of man so I can only guess as to what makes them tick. I’m actually closer to the opposite of guys like that.

I agree with you that society values a fit man over an overweight woman and that disparity can lead to a sense of superiority. Even as our society in the U.S. has become accepting of just about anything the absolute worst thing a woman can be is overweight. I think this is one of the reasons I try to be openly affectionate with my wife when we’re in public. First, I know she likes it. But beyond that, it’s not about what people think so much as the image I want to project: in a society that values one type of human over another, I am the lucky one to be with her.

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And don't anybody try and rationalize that it's the same for FFAs - because it isn't. BHMs can compensate size with other social status indicators, starting with height over money or professional position. Fat women have no generally, socially acknowledged means of compensation for their weight.
This is another good point, though I’m sure you’ll have plenty of people disagree. I suppose there really isn’t a way to definitively know, but it definitely seems like BHMs don’t get the stigma fat women do. Add in the whole “health in carrying children” discussion and I don’t see how you can make an argument otherwise, since that is obviously something a male cannot do.

I can see why it would be challenging for women to maintain a healthy sense of self worth if they’ve been fed this tripe from society. It’s one of the reasons I find confidence in a fat woman to be so appealing.
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Old 02-16-2018, 03:44 PM   #13
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HM, you mention in the original post of the other thread that your wife has received approval from other fat women for being with you. You have mentioned this dynamic in other posts as well. You've said something along the lines of her getting positive reactions when "One of their own" managed to "snag" a man they find appealing.

So do you truly believe that would happen if you were not seen as superior? Furthermore, does your wife just have a sexual or aesthetic preference for fit men? Or does she like being with a fit man because it gives her social legitimacy? Like it's ok to weigh over 400 pounds if you're proving to others that you can attract a socially desirable mate. Numerous BHM on here have complained that fat women pass them over for thin men, not due to lack of interest but because the fat women want a skinny man to prove to society that they don't have to settle for a fellow fat person
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:29 PM   #14
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HM, you mention in the original post of the other thread that your wife has received approval from other fat women for being with you. You have mentioned this dynamic in other posts as well. You've said something along the lines of her getting positive reactions when "One of their own" managed to "snag" a man they find appealing.

So do you truly believe that would happen if you were not seen as superior?
Society generally values fit men more than fat women, this much I’ve never disputed. When I talk about it on a personal level, I personally do not want to feel superior nor do I want to project an image that I feel that way.

Also keep in mind a lot of fat women openly reject society’s valuing system, as they should. But even these women aren’t oblivious to it and may notice when they see a couple like me and my wife. Maybe the ones who signal their approval are the ones who have more self confidence regardless of their size. They aren’t valuing me anymore than my wife so much as just validating what they already know: that big women can draw a guy as good as any other women. That’s just one possible explanation.

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Furthermore, does your wife just have a sexual or aesthetic preference for fit men? Or does she like being with a fit man because it gives her social legitimacy? Like it's ok to weigh over 400 pounds if you're proving to others that you can attract a socially desirable mate. Numerous BHM on here have complained that fat women pass them over for thin men, not due to lack of interest but because the fat women want a skinny man to prove to society that they don't have to settle for a fellow fat person
Based on the other men she’s admitted she finds attractive she likes the strong athletic type. This goes back as far as I can remeber with her so I believe it’s a sexual/aesthetic preference. Furthermore when I told her I was going to drop from 171 to 161 pounds she got really excited. She isn’t always the most visually motivated person but I’ve noticed a significant increase in the way she looks at me when I’m topless. These aesthetic improvements are not something anyone else is really going to notice on me. This seems to underscore her preferences for what she wants in her partner are aesthetic/sexually motivated, not “status” motivated. (Fun fact: she also prefers I get sleeve tattoos but I’m not ready to do that just yet.)

Regarding BHM who get frustrated I’ve seen that countless times both here and other forums, and in real life. All I can say is if a woman passes on a guy simply for “status” reasons the guy may be better off without her, frustrated as he may be. Otherwise you can’t force preference. A fat woman isn’t going to be automatically attracted to a fat man just because they’re both fat. In the event there is no attraction, I don’t blame anyone for not settling.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:40 AM   #15
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I agree with you that society values a fit man over an overweight woman and that disparity can lead to a sense of superiority. Even as our society in the U.S. has become accepting of just about anything the absolute worst thing a woman can be is overweight. I think this is one of the reasons I try to be openly affectionate with my wife when we’re in public. First, I know she likes it. But beyond that, it’s not about what people think so much as the image I want to project: in a society that values one type of human over another, I am the lucky one to be with her.
I hate so say it, but that is the essence of superiority.

By showing your affection in public you make clear you have a status that allows you to deny society's expectations. And that this superiority of yours is like a mantle of protection you use to shield your wife. Which is not necessarily a step towards more acceptance - but just plays into the old animal kingdom patterns: Don't mess with the female under the protection of the superior male.
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:56 PM   #16
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I hate so say it, but that is the essence of superiority.

By showing your affection in public you make clear you have a status that allows you to deny society's expectations. And that this superiority of yours is like a mantle of protection you use to shield your wife. Which is not necessarily a step towards more acceptance - but just plays into the old animal kingdom patterns: Don't mess with the female under the protection of the superior male.
Not really. The discussion has centered on public affection but public affection is really just an extension of the affection I show in the privacy of our own home. I am constantly fawning all over her and she eats it up. That’s key: above every other reason out there, I display affection toward my wife because she enjoys receiving it.

Not trying to be argumentative. I disagree with your conclusion either way but until now I’ve not really shared the private aspect of our relationship dynamic and where displays of affection fit. I don’t know if this additional information would lead you reconsider your conclusion because it was based only on partial information. I’ll not worry about it either way.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:01 PM   #17
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Sorry happily_married - but the real nature of your private relation with your wife is totally irrelevant for how your public relationship communication is received. (Think of all the celebrities who put up a gushing show on the red carpets of this world - and later on everybody finds out it was all faked).

Communication is a 2-way street - is not only what the sender intends to communicate, but also how the receivers understand it.

And in the public sphere, people see only something like short clips - and especially if it is non-verbal or paraverbal interaction, they will more or less automatically sort it under existing patterns and stereotypes.

Meaning your public affection for your wife is not perceived as an FA statement - but the fit, white guy marking his territory.

If it were the other way around - your fat wife being hands on with affection for her fit guy - different stereotypes would kick in. The needy fat woman who does everything to keep the poor fit guy in her clutches, maybe up to thoughts of a reverse Wallis Simpson phenomenon.

There is (almost) no public awareness for FA-dom - and getting an unknown message across just doesn't work.

This is not an uplifting rationale - but as mentioned in the other thread, denying realities parameters doesn't help the cause either.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:55 PM   #18
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^ I’m sure there are some who do perceive it as you’ve described, but that’s not unique to a couple like me and my wife. That possible perception can apply to literally ANY type of couple. Any and every possible combination.

To top it off, it would be laughable to assume that is the only possible perception people have in response to seeing me or any other couple show affection in public. There is literally no limit to the way a person may react to what he or she sees. Human behavior can only be quantified or conform to expected patterns of behavior to limited extents. Any individual is an outlier in one way shape or form. That’s part of what makes us individuals.

As for “the cause” I’ll be clear about this: my cause is my wife’s happiness. I’ll continue to interact with her in a way that makes her happy. If people resort to their own preconceived stereotypes in order to rationalize what they’ve seen so be it. I have a good thing here and I’m not going to deviate from something that makes my wife happy and risk alienating her for any “cause.”
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:17 PM   #19
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Sorry happily_married - but the real nature of your private relation with your wife is totally irrelevant for how your public relationship communication is received. (Think of all the celebrities who put up a gushing show on the red carpets of this world - and later on everybody finds out it was all faked).

Communication is a 2-way street - is not only what the sender intends to communicate, but also how the receivers understand it.

And in the public sphere, people see only something like short clips - and especially if it is non-verbal or paraverbal interaction, they will more or less automatically sort it under existing patterns and stereotypes.

Meaning your public affection for your wife is not perceived as an FA statement - but the fit, white guy marking his territory.

If it were the other way around - your fat wife being hands on with affection for her fit guy - different stereotypes would kick in. The needy fat woman who does everything to keep the poor fit guy in her clutches, maybe up to thoughts of a reverse Wallis Simpson phenomenon.

There is (almost) no public awareness for FA-dom - and getting an unknown message across just doesn't work.

This is not an uplifting rationale - but as mentioned in the other thread, denying realities parameters doesn't help the cause either.
I realize you somehow specialize in communication. I don't. But i find your statements relating to this thread and the other related thread as just off. I feel like you are attempting to apply a theory that normally applies to a similar situation, but it is leading you in the wrong direction. Your statements just seem out of touch.

As sure as I am, that I am writing a post on Dims, there are people who stare at couples where the man is fit and the woman is a SSBBW and wonder why they are together. I have talked to/over heard people, who didn’t know I was a FA, talking about how some other fit guy was with a SSBBW and they didn’t get why. I have heard this many times! There is a reason why there is a “FA closet.”

I am sure not everyone wonders why, probably even many don’t. I would even go as far as to say, I am sure there are times where I am wrong about what I am witnessing. The idea that I am misinterpreting most of them… I am being civil here. I don’t know your life experience, and what you have witnessed. You might want to widen your gaze. It is silly to just say no one is noticing or that we are misreading almost all of these interactions.

The message is he is attracted to the woman he is with. People might/probably don’t know he is a FA, but they see him being happy with the person he is with. This sits outside of social norms. He is fit and should want a fit partner. He is deviating from that, and is choosing to be with someone society would not expect him to want to be with.

Similarly, but not the same. I have written about this many times. I am invisible to fat women when I am by myself, but I get noticed by thin women frequently. When I am with a fat girlfriend, I get noticed by a lot of fat women. I would go as far to say that the best wingman for a FA, is another fat woman. I am bringing this up to say, people do notice.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:24 PM   #20
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There is literally no limit to the way a person may react to what he or she sees.
The reactions that I have posted about are the most overt reactions. I do see reactions that I don't post about. I see a lot of puzzled looks. I don't know what they really mean, and they don't bother me.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:59 PM   #21
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The reactions that I have posted about are the most overt reactions. I do see reactions that I don't post about. I see a lot of puzzled looks. I don't know what they really mean, and they don't bother me.
It’s the same for me. I share the more significant interactions.

Well said in the post above.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:21 PM   #22
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The reactions that I have posted about are the most overt reactions.
The point of this entire exchange are not the overt reactions - that happens all the time. And as a fat woman myself who has always spent as much of her time on the beach as possible I've gotten my fair share of those too.

I never denied that nasty people go about fat shaming - or react negatively to anything that somehow does not conform to social standards and expectations. Try going out with a thin woman who wears an eccentric hat - some people will feel the need to react to that too (unless you're out in Ascot).

So of course we will all have heard them.

What has been happening in roughly 50% of the episodes related here is that there the only "evidence" we have are interpretations of non- and para-verbal 'communication' interpretations through FA eyes. Some of them just aren't very convincing when seen through normal and not FA lenses.

After now several exchanges about reality as such and reality as perceived by FAs, I see this discussion is pointless.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:40 PM   #23
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Do you really believe it's "an ok thing to feel" that you enjoy having people wonder why you're with your wife?
I like laughing behind my hand at cluelessness. Is that so wrong?
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:43 PM   #24
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So some comments on another thread really got me thinking about this: We all know FAs love fat bodies in a sexual manner. But do they also enjoy it because it makes them feel superior?
I have a very hard time feeling superior around any human being because I have basically no influence over anyone. I especially can't feel superior around a very fat person of any type, because I wish I had their good looks.
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