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Old 10-11-2006, 06:15 PM   #1
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Default First post. I need someone to talk to. Somewhat*EXPLICIT*

Hello to all. My name's Joe, and I'm Waaaay to fat... for my wife of 10 years liking that is. This is being pretty open for a first post but I have no one to talk to about my troubles... so here it goes.. I'm having some issues dealing with being overweight, although I have been all my life, my wife is really making me feel bad about it. However I was told by a very attractive lady out of the blue the other day about "FFA"s and "BHM's" she says she was one & I was SHOCKED. I had never heard of such a thing before. She told me to google it & thats how I ended up here. I myself love BBW's and always have been more attracted to bigger girls, I don't know if its because I feel more normal around them or what, but I think they are hot either way. I am married with three kids and my wife is a size 22. I'm super attracted to her but we have not had sex in 3 months and only about 8 times in the last year. We do have good sex though "she says", not on my end its not. I feel like I'm getting used. We only have sex when "she" wants to and never when I want to. She always gets hers quick and then shes done, thats it, game over. DRIVES ME CRAZY!! I know she is not attracted to me though because of my size. I feel like a human dildo! And a barely used one at that.. What should I do. I feel like giving up and like I'm only with her because of the kids....I need to be loved more....but I cant seem to loose the weight for her.. Should I move on and look for someone who love's me & is attracted to me, or what should I do???? She knows how I feel, we have talked at length about this...she loves me, but she is not attracted to me... I feel like this is all my fault because I have gained so much weight in the past ten years...Unhappy in Indiana...

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Old 10-11-2006, 06:36 PM   #2
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Hm....If she knows you're unhappy, and she knows that she is no longer attracted to you...but does she still love you/enjoy you as the man she married? Because, I'm thinking, and this is rather extreme/unconventional...would she be okay with you having a "girlfriend," a women who doesn't want any ties, but simply wants a sexual relationship?
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Old 10-11-2006, 06:42 PM   #3
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I certainly wouldn’t give up on your marriage. Do you love her and does she love you? That is the most important thing, and according to you she loves you. Do you love her? If so, that there are always ways to work these things out. Please consider the fact that it may have nothing to do with your weight, but she is using that as an excuse. There may be a deeper problem which she is not even admitting to herself. All couples go through dry spells – are you sure this one is because of your weight?

Either way, I suggest you find a professional councilor. It may cost some money, but your marriage isn’t going to be saved by a bunch of people on forums. If it is really desperate, you must seek professional help for the sake of your family. An unhappy relationship affects everyone, including your children.

If your wife doesn’t want to go into therapy I would suggest going in yourself. You sound very depressed, with very low self esteem. Even if you work through that on your own it will have a positive effect on your marriage.

Don’t blame your wife, because blaming will only hurt you and your children. Don’t become bitter. Seek professional help, you need to work through your depression and self esteem issues. You sound like your in a very low place, and perhaps your wife is putting you down as well. But you can’t hang all your self belief on her opinion – get strength in yourself and then you will be able to work on your marriage.

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Old 10-12-2006, 04:12 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by estrata
I certainly wouldn’t give up on your marriage. Do you love her and does she love you? That is the most important thing, and according to you she loves you. Do you love her? If so, that there are always ways to work these things out. Please consider the fact that it may have nothing to do with your weight, but she is using that as an excuse. There may be a deeper problem which she is not even admitting to herself. All couples go through dry spells – are you sure this one is because of your weight?
I think Laura's right. This may not really be about your weight, it may be an excuse. If she's not been interested in sex for *just the last year* (and before that she was interested) it may be something else and she's just latching on to an easy excuse.

Is she stressed about money, or the state of the world (it's been looking a tad scary lately, eh)? Is she overworked? You did say you had three children- young children can be a real libido killer. Do you still do romantic things like take her out on dates (with no kids present)? Men sometimes underestimate how much women really need quality time with their guy to get to feeling in the mood.

I must say that there are things about your description of your wife's behavior that concern me. If she's truly not attracted by your weight gain, a kinder and gentler (I'm all about the kindness thing, insults truly never help) way for her to address that might be for her to take you both out on walks or something. You know, doing something productive together. And hey, sex burns lots of calories. Done right can be a real workout.

In any case, here's my favorite links on marriage.
http://www.smartmarriages.com/growup.html
http://www.smartmarriages.com/hargrave.html
http://www.smartmarriages.com/intentionalmarriage.html

I've found a lot of inspiration there for working on my own marriage. Maybe something there might appeal to you?
=)
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:57 AM   #5
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Default Was she always fat?

You mention you like BBW's, but the first thing that jumped out at me was does your WIFE like being one? If she hates her own body, that may be a key to why you aren't having sex more.

One thing I found that the posters here helped me with is this: It doesn't matter what you like if the other person doesn't like themselves. I posted about not being able to convince a man I thought he was hot. About three pages later with tons of input from both men and women gave me the answer. The key was not to convince him he was hot or that I thought he was hot, because what that says is "If I only I could get him to see this my way, he'd be happy." The truth was, he hated being fat, didn't like how he looked, and the point was not "Well, if only I can convince him I think he's gorgeous he'll be happy." What made him happy was to lose weight because he wanted to look a certain way. Sure you are attracted to her, but is she attracted to herself?

Second thing is do YOU like the way you look? Are you happy with your body or do you want to be smaller? All your post said was that your wife didn't like your body but you never said whether or not you liked it. You said you couldn't seem to lose weight "for her," but I have to wonder if you tried to lose weight for yourself? You said you wanted to be loved and accepted for who you are, so I somewhat assume you enjoy being fat. I could be wrong, but that's how it sounded.

The only person you can control is you. The only person she can control is herself. Taking your anger or frustrations out about your own insecurities or body issues on others is a dead end proposition. A guy once asked me if I'd get mad at him if he had junk food around and I ate it and gained weight which he knows I don't want to do. I said simply "No, because i'm responsible for what I eat, you are not. If i ate a bunch of junk and put on weight, I would have no right to blame anyone but myself."
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:48 AM   #6
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Oh, yes. And then there's the whole 'Why your wife won't have sex with you' blog.

http://blogs.salon.com/0003935/stori...roduction.html

If you read that one all the way down to all the comments you'll get a lovely eyeful of the nitty gritty of female vs male psychology. It's kind of ouchie, really, in the way that things that are true often are. But useful.
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Old 10-12-2006, 08:22 AM   #7
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Have you asked your wife specifically why she was attracted to you in the first place, and why she's not attracted to you now? (You have to be willing to not talk back and just listen here.)

There's also a reference to being bipolar on your MySpace. Are you getting treatment for this? Mental illness can have a huge effect on your relationship, and while not your fault, requires you both work on it.
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Old 10-12-2006, 08:38 AM   #8
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I don't have additional comments. I just wanted to say that each person who commented brought such great ideas and helpful suggestions I got overwhelmed by a warm fuzzy about it. Don't comment back to me cause I don't want to hijack.

Good luck to the Original Poster. Welcome to Dimensions!
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Old 10-12-2006, 08:43 AM   #9
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Hi.
Sorry you're going through this. I do agree getting prof help would be the best bet. At least here, you could find a lot of good info to help with accepting yourself but if you believe the marriage is worth saving, find yourself some help, fast. Best wishes.
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Old 10-13-2006, 04:28 PM   #10
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Default Maire Dubh -- You should be an inspiration!

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Originally Posted by maire dubh
I'm thinking, and this is rather extreme/unconventional...would she be okay with you having a "girlfriend," a women who doesn't want any ties, but simply wants a sexual relationship?
God bless you, Maire Dubh! LOL!

I just hope my girl isn't reading this one, though! (Only kidding baby!) LOL

525, you are in a tough spot. I have no real advice to give, as this is a tragically individual situation. But, I will anyway…

Just know that you deserve to be happy in life, and you must pursue that happiness with the passion of an insane artist. If you determine you will be happiest making the marriage work, then let loose your spirit and make things work. Work on things with her, share with her, communicate with her, love her, love yourself, seek therapy -- anything you can to make things better.

If you decide you would be happier elsewhere -- or that you have tried all the things your heart can find to make it work and it doesn't -- then more on with a clear mind and hopeful soul.

Life is a joy, when we aren't fighting it.

Best wishes,
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Old 10-16-2006, 02:35 AM   #11
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I want to say thank you for all the comments! You have helped me to see that I need to not worry about trying to change the way my wife thinks, but rather I should concentrate on my problems and becoming a better person. If I do that I have a feeling it will all work out and fall into place however it should. I need to just be the best man I can be..Thanks again!!...Joe


P.S. Im not fat, IM JUST IN ALL CAPS!!
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Old 10-16-2006, 02:05 PM   #12
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Default feel your pain

525, I don't have any words of advice for you. Just want to tell you that you aren't the only one in this situation. I understand completely how you feel. My personal way of dealing with the situation would be considered morally wrong, but I am who I am. I've tried for about 14 years to convince my spouse how beautiful she is to me, and I keep trying, but I know it's wasted effort. I stay for my daughterm who will be off to college in about 8 years. I've almost become 2 different people. There's the "me" that is at home, and is totally domesticated, and can't sleep at night, from laying next to someone who has no love for me. Then there's the "me" that flirts and carries on. The me who has very understanding female friends whom participate in mutual "gratification".
If you and her are still talking, please let her know (politely) how you feel. Try to talk it over with her. If she's willing to do counseling with you, thats great. One other thing, which many here might not agree about, I've used Meridia for weight loss, and got GREAT results with it. It also seemed to help with the depression and lack of sleep. but I couldn't keep taking because I lost my insurance when I was terminated from last job. In the end, You have to be happy with yourself. noone else can do that for you. At least she uses you for sex. I'm just a secoundary source of income, and as such only worth as much as my last paycheck....
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Old 10-17-2006, 05:26 PM   #13
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If you are interested check some of my back posts, i used to be very large 425+ pounds? Im not sure of my highest weight because I never was weighed at my largest. I can tell you I was a size 60 waist and 4x/5xi shirts. In 6 months time I am now a size 44 waist 1x/2x shirt and still loosing. I am starting to reach the point now where I have excess skin all over the place and am going to need to have surgery.

I lost all that weight with no outside help. I didn't take diet pills or use any programs, just will power and exercise.

Whats my point by this post? If you are unhappy at your size change it. Show your wife you are making an attempt to change. I can say tho that if my wife had sex with me as little as she did you I would be out of there and lookin elsewhere to get my rocks off. Life is to short to be unhappy. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatkid420
If you are unhappy at your size change it.
He never says he's unhappy with his size.

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Originally Posted by fatkid420
I can say tho that if my wife had sex with me as little as she did you I would be out of there and lookin elsewhere to get my rocks off. Life is to short to be unhappy. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
OH, that'll fix the marriage. Sex doesn't equate to happiness, and certainly, life's too short to screw up your marriage by CHEATING.
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by TheSadeianLinguist
He never says he's unhappy with his size.



OH, that'll fix the marriage. Sex doesn't equate to happiness, and certainly, life's too short to screw up your marriage by CHEATING.
Life is also far to short to be stuck in something where you aren't happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 525
I feel like I'm getting used. We only have sex when "she" wants to and never when I want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 525
I feel like a human dildo!
Those don't sound like statements made by one who is happy. If his wife isn't willing to give in to his needs then what makes it not ok to go out and find it else ware?

We don't know the full story or what is really going through the wifes mind so its hard to give any solid advice. I know if it were me I would move out asap until she was willing to either work things out or move on. It just sucks that kids are involved.

Last edited by fatkid420; 10-17-2006 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 10-18-2006, 02:57 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by fatkid420
If his wife isn't willing to give in to his needs then what makes it not ok to go out and find it else ware?
Turn it around and look at it from another direction.

Imagine: you're a married man, you've been married 15 years and you love your wife, suddenly you get health problems and are afflicted with impotence. You are afraid and ashamed, you feel unmanly, you are in mourning for what you have lost, you start acting out against your wife in your fear and anger and shame, you stop hugging her because you don't want sex to start, she doesn't know what's going on, she's afraid, things get cold and mean.

Would you now like to have a wife who would instantly give up, take half your belongings and run away with someone else? Because despite 15 years she thinks you are just not worth the bother to even talk to?

Or would you instead like to have a wife who deeply loves you no matter what, who has been through rough times with you before and knows she can and will slog up that mountain in the snow one more time, and one more time again, always one more time, a true partner who can look beneath your surface and extend out her hand to you despite the pain.

Marriage, true marriage, is not always easy or fun, and it is not like being 'in love'. When things get tough, married love is something you DO because it is the right thing to do. You might not feel 'in love' every moment, but you do it, you hold out your hand, and you do it right, ....and things then get easier again. Problems get solved. And then you get to be 'in love' again, and even more and even deeper.

In true marriage, as in life, you get what you give.

~LucyP, who's been there, done that.
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Old 10-18-2006, 05:04 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by lucyp
Turn it around and look at it from another direction.
I have to assume that he has already made an attempt to communicate this problem to his wife. I only say that because of the context of his post. I know that if it were me I would get the fuck out the second I wasn't happy. Life if far to short to spend it unhappy and in pain. If he is unhappy and his wife isn't willing to work the problems out what other options are there? Humans are naturally sexual creatures and to not have sex or intimacy is not natural nor healthy.

Counseling was suggested this might be a good option.
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:23 PM   #18
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Post This is a copy of a private message I sent to 525.

Sharing it here:

I saw your message and had to say......

That you can't live your life waiting for your wife to approve of you. She either wants(attracted) you or she doesn't(not attracted) want you. Now, I understand a few people have posted comments saying -"hey don't let go of your marriage" and all that but ask yourself why should you change the way you look now when you have always accepted the way your wife looks and have never or would never ask her to change the way she looks in order for you to love her more?

You see what I'm saying. Your wife is making a judgment of you and is placing her feelings about you in that judgment. She is telling you that she is not attracted to you because you are fat and that is not right. She is fat,too. You haven't sent her crying to bed or demanding she get a 24Hour Fitness Gym membership. I understand that you didn't intend to get fat, it happens but if she really loved you for you then it wouldn't be a problem now would it. This is serious.

You need to find happiness and not bother going to therapy where some skinny 56yrs. old head shrink is going to lay all the blame on you and then wind up telling you that you have to change your appearance in order to get your wife's approval and love of you. That you will have to workout day in and day out just to get an "I love you!" or just a hug or a passionate kiss. That's lame and it sounds like more emotional torture than what you are already experiencing. Listen, find happiness now, love yourself as you are. Believe in yourself , don't let her step on your feelings. Your are hurting and you need to heal.

Eat right, don't diet or starve yourself. Eat within moderation and treat yourself every now then to something sweet. Don't get hung up on eating the same thing all the time, change it up,every day. Eat a wide variety of foods. Drink plenty of water. And walk at least 45 minutes a day. Don't walk fast but at your own walking pace. Do it for you. It's not about losing weight but gaining self love and self respect of yourself and your body . You can be fat and fit. Never over do it. What I'm telling you is take care of you in everyway that matters to you and leave your judgmental wife behind and find a woman who will appreciate your body(mind and spirit) as well as you appreciate hers.

You can kill yourself trying to please your wife now and all she'll end up doing is marrying another fat guy and putting him down or worse yet she'll marry a skinny guy and he'll turn around and do to her the same thing she did to you. The only difference is that you will be dead and she will still be here either way. Life is too short to spend ALL of your precious time WAITING to be REALLY loved again. You can do it, just do it. Just be yourself. Take care of your kids as well. Good Luck and God Bless.

***I decided to post this because I felt it should be added after all. I know some here will be upset at what I've said to 525 but this is MY point of view.
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucyp
In true marriage, as in life, you get what you give.

~LucyP, who's been there, done that.
The point here is that he is giving her ALL the love and attention SHE WANTS and he is **left hanging**, physical and especially emotional wise. In this case he is not getting in return what he has given and therefore should **pull out and run**.

His wife isn't interested in working things out because she doesn't see that there's something wrong. The main issue being her attitude. I agree that marriage is for better or for worse but it's not worth going through down right **rotten**, that's worse than worse itself. It shouldn't be tolerated or sorted out.

Sometimes it's not about the grass being greener on the other side, sometimes it's about- "is there any grass on one's own side to begin with?"-FatKatLuvr:
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Old 10-19-2006, 12:01 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by FatKatLuvr
The point here is that he is giving her ALL the love and attention SHE WANTS and he is **left hanging**, physical and especially emotional wise. In this case he is not getting in return what he has given and therefore should **pull out and run**.
"Left hanging" and "pull out and run" are bad choices of words in this instance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatKatLuvr
His wife isn't interested in working things out because she doesn't see that there's something wrong.
His wife isn't here; don't put words in her mouth. She obviously does see something is wrong if she's not wanting to make love to her husband. It's easy for you to sit back and tell him to write her off...but it's pretty apparent to me that he still loves her and there are the kids to consider. Also, have you asked yourself why now? The OP said he has always been fat, so he must have been fat when she married him. Therefore, there is something else going on here beyond a size issue. Marriages are complicated things and you should realize when giving your opinion that you know very, very, very little of what is really going on.
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Old 10-19-2006, 03:06 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ripley
"Left hanging" and "pull out and run" are bad choices of words in this instance.


His wife isn't here; don't put words in her mouth. She obviously does see something is wrong if she's not wanting to make love to her husband. It's easy for you to sit back and tell him to write her off...but it's pretty apparent to me that he still loves her and there are the kids to consider. Also, have you asked yourself why now? The OP said he has always been fat, so he must have been fat when she married him. Therefore, there is something else going on here beyond a size issue. Marriages are complicated things and you should realize when giving your opinion that you know very, very, very little of what is really going on.
My words are my words, my choices, not yours. You don't like them, tough.
It wasn't meant as bad as you imply, plus 525 started his post about sex in the first place. "Bone" of contention? Sue me.

He said that he has become too big, in her eyes. Thus, is why she is not attracted to him anymore.

As for his wife I wasn't putting words in her mouth, He said that he has had discussions with her and it has gone no where. So,what other conclusions can be drawn from this? She doesn't give a damn about him or his feelings.
Actions speak louder than words and she has shown very little caring.

The kids are not the issue as they will just be part of the never ending cycle of "kids of divorce", in this country. Sad, but true. Better they grow up with parents that love each other than to watch the one-sided, love unreciporcated, emotional slugfest,that is their current learning environment.

525 and his wife need to part and find new happiness. The kids will be the better for it. If they do it right. Not all relationships are going to work out.The kids are unfortunate victims caught in the middle. Life isn't easy.

Anyway, I haven't been policing you lately (at all and won't) so please don't start with me, ripley.
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Old 10-19-2006, 03:19 AM   #22
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News flash: Not having sex with your S/O doesn't mean you're rejecting them or don't love them. Doesn't mean 525's feelings aren't valid. However, this woman is being villainized by some posters here. It's not been considered whether or not the woman has PHYSICAL problems or emotional problems or there are other marital issues. His MySpace insinuates he's bipolar; you can't tell me that doesn't have an effect on a marriage. Just because you want something doesn't mean you get it. If the marriage is going to work, it's not going to just be about one party getting what s/he wants.
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Old 10-19-2006, 03:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by TheSadeianLinguist
News flash: Not having sex with your S/O doesn't mean you're rejecting them or don't love them. Doesn't mean 525's feelings aren't valid. However, this woman is being villainized by some posters here. It's not been considered whether or not the woman has PHYSICAL problems or emotional problems or there are other marital issues. His MySpace insinuates he's bipolar; you can't tell me that doesn't have an effect on a marriage. Just because you want something doesn't mean you get it. If the marriage is going to work, it's not going to just be about one party getting what s/he wants.
Listen this guy came here and ask for some opinions. He got them. Some in favor of his "sticking with it and working it out" and others like myself saying "just leave". Just because you don't like the sound of it doesn't mean you start slamming people for giving their opinions.

Just give your thoughts and leave it at that. She knew he was bi polar to begin with so that's not the issue. You're reaching.

She doesn't have any problems getting her "quicky" and going off to watch T.V. or whatever the hell. Physical relations in a marriage is very important to the over all success of the marriage. It's healthy and shouldn't be "shelfed". End of debate.

So, if you don't get it, then you're suppose to just put up with it forever? I don't think so. And asking him to do so is victimizing him as much as she is already. Yes, his feelings are valid. If the situation was in reverse you would be on her side. So, don't get moralist with me, SADe. Rejection is rejection and it hurts. No two ways about it.

I think the replies to this post have been more than a balance of all possible views and in the end we'll never really know what came of them anyway.

Free country still intacted. I think?
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Old 10-19-2006, 03:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatKatLuvr
Listen this guy came here and ask for some opinions. He got them. Some in favor of his "sticking with it and working it out" and others like myself saying "just leave". Just because you don't like the sound of it doesn't mean you start slamming people for giving their opinions.
And what are you doing but slamming others for their opinions? Look, I'm giving you another view to consider. I'm not squalling about how he needs to leave his wife because he's not getting his. I'm not demonizing either side.

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Just give your thoughts and leave it at that. She knew he was bi polar to begin with so that's not the issue. You're reaching.
How do you know she knew he was bipolar or that she knew how severe it was? Who's reaching? Show where he said that.

Quote:
She doesn't have any problems getting her "quicky" and going off to watch T.V. or whatever the hell. Physical relations in a marriage is very important to the over all success of the marriage. It's healthy and shouldn't be "shelfed". End of debate.
You don't know why she's doing this. All you're doing is hearing one side. You don't know if she's freaking out and pretending to have an orgasm, or if it hurts, or if she's embarassed.

Quote:
So, if you don't get it, then you're suppose to just put up with it forever? I don't think so. And asking him to do so is victimizing him as much as she is already. Yes, his feelings are valid. If the situation was in reverse you would be on her side. So, don't get moralist with me, SADe. Rejection is rejection and it hurts. No two ways about it.
I never suggested that, but I also didn't recommend he go find sex somewhere else or leave. No one's entitled to sex; it's a way of enjoying one another's company, and if it's not enjoyable for both parties and one party doesn't care, that's almost sexual abuse. I guarentee if he were here moaning that his wife was trying to nail him all the time and was treating him in such a way that he basically felt like her sex pig and she had a mental illness, you'd be DRIPPING with sympathy for him. Point is, you routinely expect women on here to be submissive. Let's call a spade a spade here. I don't like it.

Quote:
I think the replys to this post have been more than a balance of all possible views and in the end we'll never really know what came of them anyway.

Free country still intacted. I think?
You want to silence the views you don't agree with though. God forbid anyone try to have a discussion with you. Ditch the holier than thou attitude and play again. (Oh, and there are people from all around the world here and it's a privately owned forum. So thanks for trying to end on a witty note.)
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Old 10-19-2006, 04:16 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSadeianLinguist
And what are you doing but slamming others for their opinions? Look, I'm giving you another view to consider. I'm not squalling about how he needs to leave his wife because he's not getting his. I'm not demonizing either side.



How do you know she knew he was bipolar or that she knew how severe it was? Who's reaching? Show where he said that.



You don't know why she's doing this. All you're doing is hearing one side. You don't know if she's freaking out and pretending to have an orgasm, or if it hurts, or if she's embarassed.



I never suggested that, but I also didn't recommend he go find sex somewhere else or leave. No one's entitled to sex; it's a way of enjoying one another's company, and if it's not enjoyable for both parties and one party doesn't care, that's almost sexual abuse. I guarentee if he were here moaning that his wife was trying to nail him all the time and was treating him in such a way that he basically felt like her sex pig and she had a mental illness, you'd be DRIPPING with sympathy for him. Point is, you routinely expect women on here to be submissive. Let's call a spade a spade here. I don't like it.



You want to silence the views you don't agree with though. God forbid anyone try to have a discussion with you. Ditch the holier than thou attitude and play again. (Oh, and there are people from all around the world here and it's a privately owned forum. So thanks for trying to end on a witty note.)
Where did I try to silence anyone? or their views? I give my views and opinions to 525 and shared them with the "thread", afterwards you come in accusing me of being part of some "villianizing ring"?

That was my point, there have been post made by plenty of people here and I don't know why you chose me to come "out of left " on, but I'm not liking it one bit. I don't routinely expect nothing but to be left the hell alone after I post my reply to someone's post(525,etc, etc.). You don't know me. When was I acting or responding in an holier than thou attitude.

I didn't try to end on a witty note. I was reaching out to your rationale, I can see I failed.
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