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Old 04-16-2007, 08:00 PM   #226
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There are so many fat people around this place that sometimes certain realities can get obscured. We make it look easy! Most folks around here are not deliberately trying to gain and have never done so. The truth is that it is very difficult to gain to a significant amount. Unless you are predisposed for it already which rarely anyone is, or you have some illness that causes you to gain rapidly wether you want to or not, you would have a hell of a time trying to gain. The body has its own defense system against that. You may be able to enjoy lavish eating but only for so long before your own body will work against you. You will come to a place where you *can't* eat any more. The sight of food will make you dizzy and whatever gains you've made will be lost almost immediately. Unless you've actively tried to gain you would not know this but gainers know it all too well. You want to eat the food but your arm goes to your stomach, you stick out your tongue in disgust and order the club soda with lime. You can't. Forced feeding results in vomiting.

Everyone's peak point is different. Some need medical care at 250 pounds, others can make it to 475 before signs of anything begin to show. People who got to 500 pounds have not achieved some great accomplishment. It is something they were predisposed to do anyway and in many cases could not have prevented it if they tried. They have merely overshot their normal weight which was already exorbitantly high to begin with.

The human body is a fascinating machine. The dietary needs for a spunky 4'10" dynamo are going to be vastly different than that of a 6'4" burly lumberjack. Demographics on averages are a nice tool but not absolutes for individuals. It can be difficult to tell what is abuse and what is something that the person has no control over. It is almost impossible for a person to get to 800 pounds unless their body has an allowance for it. Just like all anorexics aren't grossly thin, all gainers are not grossly fat. It is hard to tell with the human eye who is sick and who is not.
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:06 PM   #227
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"The truth is that it is very difficult to gain to a significant amount"

This has not been my experience. I can gain tons of weight without trying, when I eat what I want I gain quickly. I never not want to eat, but have to force myself not to to avoid weight gain.

Many of the fat people I know tell me they are similiar to me in this regard.
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:08 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
"The truth is that it is very difficult to gain to a significant amount"

This has not been my experience. I can gain tons of weight without trying, when I eat what I want I gain quickly. I never not want to eat, but have to force myself not to to avoid weight gain.

Many of the fat people I know tell me they are similiar to me in this regard.
As am I. I gain very easily. What I'm talking about is a deliberate gain, such as setting a goal to weigh 600 pounds. You might be able to put on 40 or 50 easily but after that it would be very tough.
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:16 PM   #229
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Wow...I can't believe I missed this thread.

I've been in only one feeder/feedee relationship before. At first, it was an amazing experience to have someone feed me sensual foods, love on my belly while I ate...plus it lead to amazing sex. However, after months of being in this relationship, I started to have some sort of emotional/mental breakdown from it all. I, honestly, started believing that he was with me for the sole purpose of "fattening" me up, and that he didn't really care about anything else. Our relationship revolved round the "feeding" fantasies and eventually, I couldn't handle it anymore. I NEVER wanted the feeding to become the main focus of the relationship, but as time went on...that's exactly what happened.

After the relationship was over, I absolutely despised the thought of someone feeding me...especially feeding me mini eclairs in bed. It took me a long time to realize that it wasn't that "act" of someone feeding me that repulsed me...it was the thought of it becoming a main focus in any further relationship I had with a FA. That being said, I would welcome the idea of someone sensually feeding me again, as long as it wasn't with the intent to purposely gain a lot of weight.
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:21 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by LillyBBBW View Post
The word "Gainer" would probably be more appropriate and "Fan of Weight Gain" as the opposite though the label is too long.
From what I have read, the terms "gainer" and "encourager" are commonly accepted already in the gay community. It seems like these are more relevant terms in either case.
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:26 PM   #231
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Thank you for sharing that, Butterbelly. It sucks that you had that experience, but I guess the constant danger with fetishes is that you might not always be sure if the person is with you for you, or to further their sexual desires.

Well you deserve someone who can explore that with you, and feed you things you love, AND love and respect you for who you are.
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:29 PM   #232
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LMFAO..I preached that for 4 or 5 pages.
In my opinion, allowing yourself to be harmed (like in the extreme cases of immobility or getting beaten for example) is not taking responsibility for yourself. That's being abused.
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:30 PM   #233
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Default Possibly a weird analogy

but I think feederism has as much to do with eating disorders as BDSM had to do with cutting/self mutilation.

A sexual kink having to do with food is not necessarily related to a mental disorder relating to food.

There is also a huge difference between feederism as a sexual practice and "feeding somebody" in a sensual manner. You can hand feed somebody strawberries or truffles without the expectation or intent that they will gain weight. I mean you can also pour somebody a glass of wine without the intention of making them an alcoholic.

Feeding somebody either with the intention that they will gain weight or the fantasy they will gain weight (let's say it's done just as an occaisional isolated practice and not a lifestyle or ongoing activity) is again, a sexual kink and between two consenting adults, should be seen as suck.
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:52 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by LJ Rock View Post
From what I have read, the terms "gainer" and "encourager" are commonly accepted already in the gay community. It seems like these are more relevant terms in either case.
The gay community seems to be a step ahead of all of us in almost every aspect. Those terms make much more sense.
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:12 PM   #235
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In my opinion, allowing yourself to be harmed (like in the extreme cases of immobility or getting beaten for example) is not taking responsibility for yourself. That's being abused.
Why is it that someone is always "doing this to another". What about people who just fantasize, wish and possibly live out the situation on their own?

I'm not a victim, nor am I abused.
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:14 PM   #236
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but I think feederism has as much to do with eating disorders as BDSM had to do with cutting/self mutilation.

A sexual kink having to do with food is not necessarily related to a mental disorder relating to food.

There is also a huge difference between feederism as a sexual practice and "feeding somebody" in a sensual manner. You can hand feed somebody strawberries or truffles without the expectation or intent that they will gain weight. I mean you can also pour somebody a glass of wine without the intention of making them an alcoholic.

Feeding somebody either with the intention that they will gain weight or the fantasy they will gain weight (let's say it's done just as an occaisional isolated practice and not a lifestyle or ongoing activity) is again, a sexual kink and between two consenting adults, should be seen as suck.
I'd just like to throw in quickly, that weight gain fantasies don't always equate to mass consumption of food...

I hate the term "Feedee" or "Gainer" - honestly, I just want to be fat.. fatter.. and that's that.
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:24 PM   #237
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Why is it that someone is always "doing this to another". What about people who just fantasize, wish and possibly live out the situation on their own?
Fantasy and feeder/feedee role play is one thing. Taking it to the extreme of immobility is another.

I've been clear and consistent on my stance throughout this. Now, I'm stepping out of this discussion. Anything more is just repeating myself.
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:26 PM   #238
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Fantasy and feeder/feedee role play is one thing. Taking it to the extreme of immobility is another.

I've been clear and consistent on my stance throughout this. Now, I'm stepping out of this discussion. Anything more is just repeating myself.
Trust me, I understand your take on it all and I disagree on many points. But that isn't the reason I posted back, I was just trying to explain that these relationships and situations are sometimes solo and the aspects aren't always as black and white as you might think.
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:55 PM   #239
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Yikes, another big batch of posts to respond to!

Lilly's right about terminology. ("The first necessity is to rectify the names of things" -- Confucius.) From now on I'm going to use "gainer" and "encourager" instead of "feedee" and "feeder." Hope this doesn't confuse anyone!

That said, I think we're talking way too much about hypothetical extreme cases.

We all agree that manipulating someone's low self-esteem to make them gain when they don't really want to is deeply, profoundly wrong. The major division here seems to be over whether or not, in the case of someone who has a genuine gaining fetish, choosing immobility with all its attendant health problems is inevitably the sign of a disordered psychology.

My personal inclination, out of political principle, is to say "hands off" and let the hypothetical gainer do what they like. But I'm out of my depth when it comes to the legal definition of a sound mind, and I recognize that reasonable people can differ on where to draw the line between acceptable risk and unacceptable self-harm.

But seriously, how often does this situation come up in real life? Out of the already tiny number of people with a gaining fetish, how many of them are really single-minded enough to willingly give up the possibility of a normal life in order to indulge it? The fantasy of overflowing a bed is sexy to some of us, but real-life bedsores and bedpans aren't. Reasonable people realize this, and anyone who's genuinely interested in deliberate weight gain has thought long and hard about it. Whatever immobile gainers actually exist are a tiny minority of a tiny minority.

When we leave the hypothetical extreme of crippling immobility and start talking about plausible real-world scenarios, I think things become a lot more clear-cut. If somebody with a gaining fetish thinks it'd be hot to gain fifty pounds, and they're willing to accept the possible negative side effects, that's their own damn business -- no different from cigarettes or skydiving.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:20 PM   #240
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Wow, I can't believe I read so much of this thread. I mean, this is the topic of ages on Dimensions. So, I suppose its no coincidence that the thread is of epic proportions and emotions have been tested. I'm not really much of a feeder, but you can't hang around Dimensions for 10 years and not be quite familiar with the idea. I enjoy picking the brains of people I've met from around here, and oddly enough I've gotten to know many more gainers than feeders in my time here, and thus perhaps feel more an understanding of "feedees" than the "feeders."

Sew, I have a question, actually posed by a friend of mine who happens to also be an active gainer.

Say a woman is a gainer and open about it going into a relationship. The guy, however, isn't interested by weight gain at all, but seems to resign to the "to each his own" in response to her questions on the topic. Then, once in the relationship he explains that she is greatly "limiting herself" and being "willingly unhealthy" because of her desire to be bigger. He requires of her to no longer pursue gaining, against her independent wishes.

Is this unfair of him, since it's her body and her right to do with it as she pleases? Is this not the same as a feeder requiring a non-gainer to gain? Or is this guy in the right for supposedly preserving her health and best interests?
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Old 04-17-2007, 12:06 AM   #241
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Say a woman is a gainer and open about it going into a relationship. The guy, however, isn't interested by weight gain at all, but seems to resign to the "to each his own" in response to her questions on the topic. Then, once in the relationship he explains that she is greatly "limiting herself" and being "willingly unhealthy" because of her desire to be bigger. He requires of her to no longer pursue gaining, against her independent wishes.

Is this unfair of him, since it's her body and her right to do with it as she pleases? Is this not the same as a feeder requiring a non-gainer to gain? Or is this guy in the right for supposedly preserving her health and best interests?
Ooh, that's a good question.

At first this struck me as a clear-cut case of the Dan Savage principle. If she was honest with him about her desire to gain, and if he implicitly or explicitly agreed to tolerate it, he shouldn't renege on that agreement. Plus the word "require" raises a red flag for me -- it sounds like he's making a unilateral demand that she stop or he dumps her. If that's true, he's being a manipulative jerk.

But, if they have a genuinely caring relationship and he's honestly concerned about her health... that's totally valid, and she should be willing to listen to him.

I don't know the details, of course, about how serious their relationship is or just how big she's trying to get. That said, my suggestion would be: She should agree to stop or at least slow down her gain for a while while they research and discuss its possible implications. But in return, he should be willing to roleplay gaining and feeding with her, even if he's not into it himself, so that her needs aren't going totally unsatisfied.

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Old 04-17-2007, 03:28 AM   #242
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Ooh, that's a good question.

At first this struck me as a clear-cut case of the Dan Savage principle. If she was honest with him about her desire to gain, and if he implicitly or explicitly agreed to tolerate it, he shouldn't renege on that agreement. Plus the word "require" raises a red flag for me -- it sounds like he's making a unilateral demand that she stop or he dumps her. If that's true, he's being a manipulative jerk.

But, if they have a genuinely caring relationship and he's honestly concerned about her health... that's totally valid, and she should be willing to listen to him.

I don't know the details, of course, about how serious their relationship is or just how big she's trying to get. That said, my suggestion would be: She should agree to stop or at least slow down her gain for a while while they research and discuss its possible implications. But in return, he should be willing to roleplay gaining and feeding with her, even if he's not into it himself, so that her needs aren't going totally unsatisfied.

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Again, you are talking about degrees here. If a partner said "I'm into BDSM" it might not be your cup of tea, but you learn some proficiency with a whip and handcuffs. If at some point your partner wants you to put out a cigarette in his hand or stomp on him wearing stiletto heels, you might well pull back and say you can't do that. It's not a matter of not respecting his desires, but believing they are being taken beyond where you feel you can ethically participate.

To go back to TSL's remarks about eating disorders. If you were overweight, you might ask your partner to help you out with holding your feet while you do situps or agreeing to go out to eat only at places that serve salads or other low cal fare. You'd willingly do this to help your partner achieve a goal. If s/he starts to get dangerously underweight, you might well say "Look, you need to stop losing weight now, you are far below normal and your health might be affected." I don't think at that point your partner can call you out for being unsupportive or for bailing out on your agreement to help with weight loss.
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Old 04-17-2007, 04:42 AM   #243
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In my opinion, allowing yourself to be harmed (like in the extreme cases of immobility or getting beaten for example) is not taking responsibility for yourself. That's being abused.
Yep Jack..we got that the first time you said it!
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Old 04-17-2007, 04:49 AM   #244
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Again, you are talking about degrees here. If a partner said "I'm into BDSM" it might not be your cup of tea, but you learn some proficiency with a whip and handcuffs. If at some point your partner wants you to put out a cigarette in his hand or stomp on him wearing stiletto heels, you might well pull back and say you can't do that. It's not a matter of not respecting his desires, but believing they are being taken beyond where you feel you can ethically participate.

To go back to TSL's remarks about eating disorders. If you were overweight, you might ask your partner to help you out with holding your feet while you do situps or agreeing to go out to eat only at places that serve salads or other low cal fare. You'd willingly do this to help your partner achieve a goal. If s/he starts to get dangerously underweight, you might well say "Look, you need to stop losing weight now, you are far below normal and your health might be affected." I don't think at that point your partner can call you out for being unsupportive or for bailing out on your agreement to help with weight loss.
I agree. It's like that with anything. If your partner were a casual drinker and you can see a problem developing you are not out of line to raise your concerns. Chances are she wouldn't keep quiet if the situation were reversed.
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Old 04-17-2007, 04:50 AM   #245
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Say a woman is a gainer and open about it going into a relationship. The guy, however, isn't interested by weight gain at all, but seems to resign to the "to each his own" in response to her questions on the topic. Then, once in the relationship he explains that she is greatly "limiting herself" and being "willingly unhealthy" because of her desire to be bigger. He requires of her to no longer pursue gaining, against her independent wishes.
Honestly, if it were me, the relationship wouldn't have began in the first place, but it if it seriously already had, I would probably cut ties and go our separate ways. Will that be hard to do? Hell yes. Is it something that may need to be done? Sounds that way.

The red flag for me is the "to each his own" in this context. It reminds me of men that don't have a preference. If I'm activitely changing my body, it's going to become a huge issue. I would think that I would pursue someone with the same interest so that I could be explore it and continue doing it without feeling guilty when my s.o becomes uncomfortable with it.

The word that bothers me the most is requires. I'm sorry. No man has the right to tell me what to do and what not to do. He's more than welcome to ASK ME..but to require me to do something is out of the question, unless that's the nature of our relationship..ie D/S etc.

As a fat girl, I seek out FAs specifically. If I were a gainer, I would definitely seek out someone that was into me gaining.
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Old 04-17-2007, 04:57 AM   #246
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I wouldn't leave unannounced though, I would at least take the moment to say, "We need to talk." If the person isn't at least open to hear you out that's a sign that maybe it's time to walk. They may have rights but you have them too and if you don't want to put up with something you certainly don't have to. But you should at least speak up and let the person know how you feel.

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Honestly, if it were me, the relationship wouldn't have began in the first place, but it if it seriously already had, I would probably cut ties and go our separate ways. Will that be hard to do? Hell yes. Is it something that may need to be done? Sounds that way.

The red flag for me is the "to each his own" in this context. It reminds me of men that don't have a preference. If I'm activitely changing my body, it's going to become a huge issue. I would think that I would pursue someone with the same interest so that I could be explore it and continue doing it without feeling guilty when my s.o becomes uncomfortable with it.

The word that bothers me the most is requires. I'm sorry. No man has the right to tell me what to do and what not to do. He's more than welcome to ASK ME..but to require me to do something is out of the question, unless that's the nature of our relationship..ie D/S etc.

As a fat girl, I seek out FAs specifically. If I were a gainer, I would definitely seek out someone that was into me gaining.
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Old 04-17-2007, 08:15 AM   #247
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Sorry to be late to the discussion.

I agree that having a open and honest discussion about her want to gain weight. Tell her that you care for her and like her to maintain a level of health. And, if you can't come to a understanding then it might be time to shove off.
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:11 AM   #248
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I think these are excellent questions, especially in terms of government services.

It's also a slippery slope... if I didn't force myself to get fat, but chose to lead my life as a fat person and someday was disabled as an effect of something related, am I also denied? I'm sure some would say yes... it's your fault.

I'm not arguing, to be clear, I just think it's an interesting train of thought, and could lead in a lot of very weird/scary directions for the "naturally" fat among us.

I suppose bottom line though, is that disabled is disabled, no matter how it happened... I don't think someone suffering from meth mouth and on the skids has any trouble getting assistance if they're playing the game and jumping through the bureaucratic hoops.
This is an interesting train of thought indeed! If you want to you can also make the case that if a person get disabled because they are involved in a extreme sport then it their fault and the government shouldn't paid for them either.

It all comes down to the risk we are willing to take. For example one of my uncles works in demolition, he loves it, but my family been worried that he going to be hurt at his job. He hasn't had an accident at work for fifty year. Ironically, his only accident was when he almost drown at the beach while on vacation. (Don't worry he okay, and still happily making money blowing things up!)
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:48 AM   #249
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I agree. It's like that with anything. If your partner were a casual drinker and you can see a problem developing you are not out of line to raise your concerns. Chances are she wouldn't keep quiet if the situation were reversed.
I had this same exact thought when I read LoveBHMS's posts- there is the possibility of too much excess in ANYTHING in ANY relationship. At some point it's not being "disloyal" to tell the person you love that you are concerned about them and say enough is enough.
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Old 04-17-2007, 09:50 AM   #250
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Yep Jack..we got that the first time you said it!
Don't drag me back into the conversation unless you want me to say things you don't want to hear.
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