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Old 05-30-2007, 10:50 PM   #26
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Hey dude.

Take a breath. I'm sorry you got jumped on by some folks, but you've gotta learn to wait out those bouts of searing frustration with the myriad contradictions that come with being a heterosexual man. Don't rush to the keyboard, 'cause you'll end up, in all likelihood, sounding like a bit of a nutbar.

Not to say that you ARE one, mind you. I can relate to everything you said in your little litany of complaints-- but i'm afraid it comes with the territory. They keep moving the goal posts on you, my friend. Its a fundamental fact of life. You're born with certain desires, you're encouraged, on the one hand, to explore those desires and actualize yourself honestly as a sexual being-- but as soon as you’ve untangled that knot, you're supposed to curb and compartmentalize those desires so as not to step on the toes of the prerogatives of others (i.e. a woman's right to present herself in whatever way makes her feel best, whether regarding to weight, hair color, breast size, or whatever.)

But the truth is NOBODY gets a consistent message. It might feel at times that we, as men, have to mangle our desires and our identities to accommodate the seemingly bi-polar phenomenon that is female body image. It may feel like woman, who in our society, predominantly, are the "pursued" party in a courtship, hold all the cards and reserve all the rights to be candid and confident in their desires and predilections. It may feel like your job at times is simply to read female roadsigns and react according to the shifting moods and fancies of the feminine landscape.

This, my friend, is Victimtown, and it is home to nothing but histrionic lies.

Ask yourself, truthfully. Its pretty easy being a guy. Try being a girl for a couple of days. Talk about mixed messages.

Not to belittle your grievances. I hear you. But play the tape through to the end. It isnt easy for anybody. Nobody is giving you, as a young (I assume) male FA a particularly difficult time here.

This was a very half-baked response, but its late. I should probably have written nothing at all, but my heart goes out to you—even in your surpassingly shortsighted wrongness.
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:13 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Karnage70 View Post
But do you not agree that saying one thing to millions of people, and then turning around and DOING the opposite is hypocritical? I do believe that IS the definition of the word. Jen Hudson did just that....and now, this week, Tyra Banks is on a magazine cover doing the same thing.

Now, Tyra has been very vocal in A LOT of different media outlets about not giving a damn about being heavier. She's even encouraged other women to think about their weight the same way, and NOT BE DEFINED BY A NUMBER. Ok, that could go both ways, I see that. But to then turn around and diet herself down, while at the same time telling women it's ok to be heavier just SMACKS of the kind of bullshit, "Do as I say and not as I do" attitude that I hate.

You want to be thin, fine. I don't begrudge that, I really don't. Diet yourself down to where you look like Nicole Ritchie. But don't at the same time preach about "loving yourself for whatever size you are" and "embracing your curves" and "loving your bigger body" when you CLEARLY don't practice what you preach.


I guess that was my main point in the other thread.

And yeah, when people just assume things about me, and jump down my throat about forcing my sick fantasies on women, it hurts. That's not how I am at all.
It's too complex to think of it just based on the definition of hypocrisy.

If Jennifer Hudson lost weight, began preaching thiness, and became a weight bigot: She deserves the title "Hypocrite." But...she hasn't done that.

Just because someone stands for a message of Fat/Size Acceptance doesn't mean they have to stay the weight they are, or change.

Let us compare:
Jennifer Hudson may have said some things about honoring your curves and knowing that one's value does not lie within body size. I'll give you that.

Sophie Dahl stated: "If I got really thin, there'd be women who'd feel I had betrayed them. When you become a public figure, you're public property. Suppose I had breast reduction, I'm sure there'd be a national outcry."

Jennifer Hudson has said no statement similar to what Sophie Dahl said. Sophie Dahl still models, but she has succumbed to the pressure after saying that statement. She shouldn't be maimed, but this is a case where I think some dissapproval is actually valid if one can't be neutral about it. She literally proclaimed that the lost weight would make people feel that she betrayed them. Her reasoning behind the lost weight was the modeling too. She gave into the pressure.

It's all in how you express it. Example 2:
I'm a Fat Admirer. I'm also a Fat/Size Activist (I'm pretty dormant beyond the internet as of now though). I have to put the hyphened title there because:
A. I'm not fat, which unfortunately has an effect on my ability of activism. Because of this fact, my major message has to be equality/anti-size discrimination because people tend to bring up my weight as if I'm saying messages aligned to "Cows have feelings too." (That was a comment said to me by a fat friend).
B. I don't believe that there isn't a correlation between weight and health. Well... I consider Obesity to sometimes be a sympytom of unhealthy lifestyle, genetic, diseases like PCOS, et cetera (It's very complex for every person) or something that can worsen things that can affect the body (Like an injured knee for example). Whether or not people interpret that as me believing there is a correlation between weight and health is subjective. I don't know what NAAFA or even the many Dimensions users would interpret that as, so I can't say.

If I were to preach Fat Elitism and (or) Pride (I can preach that larger people have every right to believe in a such a thing, but I don't think I can preach the concept too too much due to a combination of my weight and Activism goals) at every drop of the dime, and I coupled it with thin hatred and hatred of all weight loss attempts: Wouldn't that nullify my activism? It would make me a weight bigot: Just with swapped sizes.

My weight shouldn't come up at all, but it does. That's just another example.

I can very well express my deep beliefs that larger people have every right to do whatever they so wish, but I shouldn't have to put bodyfat on or keep bodyfat to prove my worth. The Fat Acceptance movement isn't about that: It's about knowing deep down inside that your personal value and beauty is not defined by how much weigh. If a person in the movement decides to lose weight, they shouldn't be slandered unless they literally change positions in what they believe in (Which is not defined automatically by a weight loss attempt[Because there are many reasons why people choose to attempt it]) or their reasons aren't aligned to their own personal thoughts: Losing weight for vanity is a good example of this.

Unrelated topic, but another example:
I believe that physical violence in confrontations should be avoided if possible. I am also, however, an avid Marital Artist. I think we should learn to at least try to use words in confrontations, BUT... if someone swings at me: It's on like Donkey Kong!!
I shouldn't stop training because I believe that violence should be avoided. I can still practice what I preach as I continue practicing Marital (I totally spelled marital arts [Black Belt in Divorce!! ])... MARTIAL Arts.

Dissapproval of weight loss is fine when you analyze the person's reasoning behind it and how they express it.

People that have lost weight, and think they have the right to slander fat people because they have become thin/thinner (Or that they are better than fat people): They can go play in the street. Better yet they can jump off a cliff.

Call them whatever you want.

As for the many other exceptions to that rule: Analyze it for yourself before you come to a conclusion. Did you read the whole article about Jennifer? Did the article touch on her reasons for losing weight?
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Old 05-30-2007, 11:48 PM   #28
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Default Start the process..............

For a 26 year old, you need to involve yourself less in what the media has to say, and more in what you need to do to enjoy today and the rest of your life.

There is nothing more hypocritical than Hollywood, TV and their stars.......many do things just for the "air" time or to be noticed, and with the combination of The Biggest Loser, commercials for Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig, all of these stars have jumped onto the Bandwagon. I was watching some TV show where "Marcia Brady" got fat and is trying to lose weight.........it would have been great if the actress who played Jan showed up on the set and said "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia --- I see you've found the neighborhood Dairy Queen"

Stop worrying about people that quite honestly shouldn't mean anything to you.............Jennifer Hudson, Rock Hudson, Troy Hudson, Tyra Banks, Carl Banks..........who cares??

You're 26 and youre an FA............appreciate it!!! There so many great things about it. There's usually less competition with other man your age who get caught up in family and media stereotypes, and if you are true to a woman and yourself, then more often than not, a woman of larger size would "open up" more to you..........the second word is size acceptance, is acceptance.........

So turn off the TV and radio, stop looking at useless tabloids and start the process:

1- Go to work, (or school) or your local Dunkin' Donuts or Friendlys and find the cutest girl you can find in the 160-180 pound range
(20 years ago when I went to school..........there was always snobby 115-120 pound girls available, but the 180 pound girl was always "taken". "She" always seemed to be more real............go for a beer, actually eat Taco Bell, be down to Earth, have prettier faces and softer skin, and of course, "other outstanding characteristics".

2- Buy her a ice cream sundae or box of cookies to say hi, and spend the next 74 years of your life RESPECTING HER, assisting her with her life goals like career and children and remember your part of a team. If you do this with ANY WOMAN, it will pay off for you 10 times in return........

3- In four years, when you are 30, married with two children and she is 260-280 (and recently fired from her part time job at Friendly's for eating the remaining 2.5 gallons of Butter Pecan ice cream without permission) open up a paysite like Juggmaster, charge $19.95 per month, sit back, relax and smile.
THIS IS THE DREAM JOB OF EVERY GUY ON THIS BOARD (ha ha, OK, OK, OK just mine) and remember you have the power to do anything you want to, and to enjoy your life the way you want to, once you understand and appreciate your wonderful and unique instinct to appeciate a larger woman and ability to look away from the media created "norms" of society that most of us have grown up with...........You'll look back at these posts and say "OYYYY!!!"

There's nothing wrong in your being a man, or an FA, or for that matter, being a Redsox fan in New York.............its just a part of you......a GREAT part of you.....it shouldn't consume you.............

For Jon Blaze, who always "hits a hole in one" with this stuff
and
Samantha NY "who sounds like the bomb" please don't ruin my great opinion of you by being a Yankees fan

You guys are great at keeping things real

Happy Thursday, everybody
Rsoxrule
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:28 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsoxrule View Post
For Jon Blaze, who always "hits a hole in one" with this stuff
and
Samantha NY "who sounds like the bomb" please don't ruin my great opinion of you by being a Yankees fan

You guys are great at keeping things real

Happy Thursday, everybody
Rsoxrule
Thanks, rsoxrule! And no - I'm not a Yankees fan, so no worries! LOL
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:24 AM   #30
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no, you're right. everyone is out to get you.
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:51 AM   #31
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holy crap. SPEAKING of oy...remember how recently in some other thread (can't recall exactly which one), some of the girls here were discussing the 'FA hero complex'?
yeah.
i was gonna contribute my personal definition over there, but now all i have to do is quote the majority of this post. what a lovely little time saver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsoxrule View Post

You're 26 and youre an FA............appreciate it!!! There so many great things about it. There's usually less competition with other man your age who get caught up in family and media stereotypes, and if you are true to a woman and yourself, then more often than not, a woman of larger size would "open up" more to you..........the second word is size acceptance, is acceptance.........

So turn off the TV and radio, stop looking at useless tabloids and start the process:

1- Go to work, (or school) or your local Dunkin' Donuts or Friendlys and find the cutest girl you can find in the 160-180 pound range
(20 years ago when I went to school..........there was always snobby 115-120 pound girls available, but the 180 pound girl was always "taken". "She" always seemed to be more real............go for a beer, actually eat Taco Bell, be down to Earth, have prettier faces and softer skin, and of course, "other outstanding characteristics".

2- Buy her a ice cream sundae or box of cookies to say hi, and spend the next 74 years of your life RESPECTING HER, assisting her with her life goals like career and children and remember your part of a team. If you do this with ANY WOMAN, it will pay off for you 10 times in return........

3- In four years, when you are 30, married with two children and she is 260-280 (and recently fired from her part time job at Friendly's for eating the remaining 2.5 gallons of Butter Pecan ice cream without permission) open up a paysite like Juggmaster, charge $19.95 per month, sit back, relax and smile.
THIS IS THE DREAM JOB OF EVERY GUY ON THIS BOARD (ha ha, OK, OK, OK just mine) and remember you have the power to do anything you want to, and to enjoy your life the way you want to, once you understand and appreciate your wonderful and unique instinct to appeciate a larger woman and ability to look away from the media created "norms" of society that most of us have grown up with...........You'll look back at these posts and say "OYYYY!!!"
just wow.
list of things i find especially noteworthy:
1. the word she is in quotations.
2. apparantly fat girls don't communicate verbally! did you guys know this already? i had no idea. instead, turns out the proper way to introduce yourself to one is by handing her food. makes sense though, right? i mean i know that i for one don't even understand simple gestures if there isn't a big mac involved.
3. where do fat girls hang out? why dunkin donuts, of course!
4. step two: RESPECT HER! step three: inform her she will be posing naked on the internet. if "she" objects, remind her that your attraction to fat women is WONDERFUL AND UNIQUE - meaning she's got no other options so make with the paysite, spit spot.
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who gives a fluff.

Last edited by elle camino; 05-31-2007 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:58 AM   #32
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Elle, wow... my thoughts exactly. I'd rep ya if I could. Someone rep this lady. That was probably the most insulting post ever. Hooray!
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:00 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by elle camino View Post
step two: RESPECT HER! step three: inform her she will be posing naked on the internet. if "she" objects, remind her that your attraction to fat women is WONDERFUL AND UNIQUE - meaning she's got no other options so make with the paysite, spit spot.
Step four: ????
Step five: PROFIT! (Off your paysite which will showcase "The Biggest 'Girl' in the World".)
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:14 AM   #34
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Elle, wow... my thoughts exactly. I'd rep ya if I could. Someone rep this lady. That was probably the most insulting post ever. Hooray!
Done.

Kinda weird how he compliments Jon and I - but writes that 'process' stuff too? Can't speak for Jon, but that's soooo not something I support. Just tired of trying to voice it now.
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:18 AM   #35
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maybe we don't understand the post because nobody's handing us donuts while we read it.
i really don't even know how i'm managing to type right now, without at least a stick of margarine to gnaw on.
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who gives a fluff.
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:24 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by elle camino View Post
maybe we don't understand the post because nobody's handing us donuts while we read it.
i really don't even know how i'm managing to type right now, without at least a stick of margarine to gnaw on.
Oh... I usually wear one of those beer hats that have the straws coming down you know? I just put milkshakes in the beer holders and, hey! Hands free constant calorie intake! It really is fabulous. I'll have to send you one.

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Old 05-31-2007, 10:52 AM   #37
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Hello Karnage.

If we did think that way, you'd be looking at an empty forum.

Chill Have fun, and don't take the t'internet that seriously. Never let it tell you that what gets you going is wrong (unless it's..y'know..*REALLY* wrong)

If you're thats quick to question your FAness, then maybe there wasn't that much of it in you to begin with.
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:17 AM   #38
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Default remember - it was happy thursday

I simply thanked Jon and Samantha for keeping it real, because they had real answers to the issue.

For those that think my "somewhat flawed" vision of Karnage's future and of women is a valid one, perhaps starting weekends on "Happy Thursday" might be the tonic........but thank you for identifying the passages to further make my point

Seriously, enjoy the rest of this beautiful sunny, (In New York at least) Thursday

Rsoxrule

P.S. It has made my day, Samantha NY to hear you are not a Yankees fan....
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:30 AM   #39
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dude, if that was you joking, you have officially failed joking 101.
and some guys here actually wonder why girls are suspicious of the whole FA thing, coming from certain guys. i know people who outright dislike fat people who still wouldn't imply the things about them you did in that post.
pardon me if i don't really see the lols.
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who gives a fluff.

Last edited by elle camino; 05-31-2007 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:39 AM   #40
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Darlin...you keep setting up these Straw Man arguments.......and then knocking them down.

"Because I'd rather look at a healthy, plus sized woman, than a rack of ribs, I AM WRONG in being an FA.

Because I am a man, I am wrong in being an FA. "

Oh please..you are being silly with those two at the very least.

You know thats not the case.......there ARE a lot of people here with..shall we say.....very sensitive sensiblities.........AND there are a lot of oafs here.....this clash goes on and on, and creates, on occation, a rather hyperdefensive response to small things .....

You need to just........relax a bit....no one is saying you are wrong.....you just need to realize there are lots of different perspectives here, and there is no "wrong" way to be an FA other than .....say.....not hiding it and therefore hurting someone.......or by being abusive to someone physically.

everything else is wiggle room.

breathe.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnage70 View Post
*Le SIGH*

After the less than enthusiastic response to the first thread I ever tried to start here at Dimensions, I find myself questioning my FA-dom. Is it WRONG for me to like big women? Apparently so, according to many of you here.

Because, as a man, I should NEVER, Eeeeeeeeeeever, tell a women what to do with her body, I am WRONG in being an FA.

Because I like big women, but women don't like being big, I am a-GAIN, wrong in being an FA.

Because I'd rather look at a healthy, plus sized woman, than a rack of ribs, I AM WRONG in being an FA.

Because I am a man, I am wrong in being an FA.

Because I am a man, I should have no opinion on what attracts me to a women, because she can look any way she wants.......I am wrong in being an FA.

Because I am a man, I should have no opinion on FA-dom whatsoever, I am wrong in being an FA.

Because being an FA is sick, wrong and gross, and wanting a woman to eat until she becomes fat is sick, disgusting and gross, I am wrong for being an FA.

Because liking big bellies is wrong, since women don't like having big bellies, I am wrong for being an FA.

Being a man is wrong. Therefore, I am wrong by birth.



These are but a few of the sentiments that have been impressed upon me during my short time here at Dimensions. And let me tell you.......this has me more than a little confused. But I guess the bottom line is...........I just don't fucking know anymore.
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:41 AM   #41
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On a vaguely related note, it can be hard for guys these days to know what to say. Sometimes it seems that the two camps are 'guys who don't care how they come across to girls' - the traditional group, if you want to look at it that way, and the 'guys who are paralyzed by trying to avoid looking like the other guys', which isn't fun for them, and probably not for anyone around them either. There are obviously notable exceptions, and they are likely to be really excellent boys. I *do* actually feel sleazy for hitting on girls in any context. This isn't natural, it's nutured, and I don't like it, naturally.

Back to the topic, a good guide to whether what you're doing might make people angsty is to think what it would be like if you replaced the weight in the situation with thinness. I suppose the division is between pro-fat in principle, and pro-acceptance in a fat scenario.

So there you are.
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:56 AM   #42
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OK.....But as I said before, is it or is it not hypocritical to say one thing, and turn around and do the other?

I believe Websters' defines that as hypocrisy.


I should not have been so passionate in my earlier post, and I would not have been, had I not posted right after seeing something about that cover on TV.

Getting hammered on by about three different people, one of them bashing my gender (What the hell does that have to do with anything, anyway?) only exacerbated my anger.

But you bring up some excellent points, that I agree with entirely. Such as the thought that liking a woman who is 400 pounds is a lot different than having to live in that body.

The fantasy and the reality are two entirely different things, and I know that. I just feel like a slimeball for liking what I do.
I personally think its great that you like fat chicks! Hello be my boyfriend. However I think like all other women we ultimately want to be swept off of our feet. While I understand you have a preference, the fact of the matter is, when you INSIST we be a certain size to be considered by you, its a huge turnoff and personally pisses me off. I call this size INSISTENCE and not size acceptance. At the end of the day we want someone to love us regardless of our weight. Not solely for our weight. As Camyrn Manheim once said " Any man who loves a woman for the size of her dress and not the size of her spirit is a despicable man" (ok i dont think that was ger exact quote but i am close)
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:00 PM   #43
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holy crap. SPEAKING of oy...remember how recently in some other thread (can't recall exactly which one), some of the girls here were discussing the 'FA hero complex'?
yeah.
i was gonna contribute my personal definition over there, but now all i have to do is quote the majority of this post. what a lovely little time saver.


just wow.
list of things i find especially noteworthy:
1. the word she is in quotations.
2. apparantly fat girls don't communicate verbally! did you guys know this already? i had no idea. instead, turns out the proper way to introduce yourself to one is by handing her food. makes sense though, right? i mean i know that i for one don't even understand simple gestures if there isn't a big mac involved.
3. where do fat girls hang out? why dunkin donuts, of course!
4. step two: RESPECT HER! step three: inform her she will be posing naked on the internet. if "she" objects, remind her that your attraction to fat women is WONDERFUL AND UNIQUE - meaning she's got no other options so make with the paysite, spit spot.


out-fecking-STANDING!

Cripes........smug cluelessness couched in good intentions is always a heartbreaker...Rsox.....here's to hoping you meant it differently.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:08 PM   #44
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Karnage, I think I've figured out why you have trouble with women: YOU HAVE A BIGGER VAGINA THAN THEY DO.

Jesus Christ, dude, the only time they're really all out to get you is when you're fucking relevant.

Lighten up, love fat, and fuck anyone who looks at you cock-eyed.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:10 PM   #45
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Karnage, I think I've figured out why you have trouble with women: YOU HAVE A BIGGER VAGINA THAN THEY DO.

Seriously, you make ME look comfortable with myself.
i LOVE big vaginas!! you can hold your wallet n stuff in there...fantastic!
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:16 PM   #46
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i LOVE big vaginas!! you can hold your wallet n stuff in there...fantastic!
Then dare I ask what the purse is for?
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:18 PM   #47
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Then dare I ask what the purse is for?
The namebrand...too band we cant put dolce and gabana on our vaginas
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:22 PM   #48
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Ok, first of all, it's a message board. Some people like you, some people don't like you as much and yes, some people don't like you. I know this because There are boards where I am beloved, and there are boards where I am despised. But you know something, I don't question who I am.

I am an FA and I will not apologize for that.
I am outspoken about it, and I will not apologize for that either.
I use words that some people are uncomfortable with, like FAT, I don't apologize for that.

WHY?

Because each of these things are things I've learned. I've had my feet held in the fire (figuratively speaking) for saying some of the things I've said. I've even taken a vacation from this message board to get my head together.

People gang up on you? That means you're popular, for the wrong reason, but at least they're looking at you. At least they want to try and set you straight even though you think you're fine. I don't know if it's because they think they want to help or if they smell weakness on you and want to eliminate you from the herd. I don't know, whatever.

Point is this, Don't let a bunch of people on a message board who scarcely know you dictate your feelings to you. You know what you feel, you just have to find a way of expressing those feelings. That is a trial and error basis. Sometimes it works, sometimes it's a disaster But you must always hold your head up high because you have something and it is PRIDE.

Don't let people fuck with your pride, ever. It is what gives you confidence. It is what drives you. It is that thing that gives you a sense of purpose. Believe me when I tell you that people have tried to rip my pride away from me. On some message boards, it's been as brutal as the collective telling me "Fat chicks are gross". I'm not out to change minds, I'm out to embolden. I'm not out to make people understand us, I'm out to support people who already know their inner truth and are looking to accept it, or have accepted it and want to share their pride with a collective of like minded people.

You want to be a part of a community, that's great. You want to be a part of this community, then take your lumps. I get my chops busted around here a lot. Visit Hyde Park, you'll see. I'm not here to try and fit in, I'm here to be me. If it get's to be too much for you, fall back and search other boards. Come back to this one when you feel ready. I did. Now I pretty much don't care what people think of me and until I do something to get banned, I'll be a regular visitor. If I quit showing up and I'm not banned, I'm just taking a break.

But I always return.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:23 PM   #49
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The namebrand...too band we cant put dolce and gabana on our vaginas
You could, but it might seem kinda fishy.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:27 PM   #50
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You could, but it might seem kinda fishy.
Not sure what sort of women you date but may I suggest penicillin?
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