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Old 11-19-2007, 02:06 PM   #1
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Default is the term size acceptance too whimpy?

i was thinking today about the term "size acceptance" and what it really means. it somewhat bothers me that people are asking to be "accepted". i think the most important thing would be to accept yourself personally and then sue the pants off anyone who violates your rights. "size acceptance" just sounds whimpy to me.

i also wonder if it is good to seperate that from plain old rights? because once you seperate yourself you become the other and it seems easier for other people with the same concerns not to relate. for instance, i wonder if issues with the airlines would be better solved by creating a passengers bill of rights and having all people with a beef sign on. that would include everyone from passengers required to buy a second seat to the lady who was forced off the plane for wearing a mini, or someone denied the right to breastfeed. do you think something like that would be more effective or am i all wet?

PS: excuse me if you notice typos--i can't spell and for some reason my spellcheck wouldn't kick in.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:56 PM   #2
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My take on size acceptance is that it is all about people of size accepting themselves and their friends an admirers standing up for/standing up to people of size and society, respectively.

I think the idea of approaching problems that all people have from a size neutral perspective might be more effective.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:29 PM   #3
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Ok, Wonkette, I know what you really want! Fat Power!!!
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Old 11-20-2007, 04:06 AM   #4
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The term size acceptance has always somewhat bothered me. My interpretation of it is just as it says..to accept everyone no matter what their size...if someone is 650lbs they are just as much a person as a person who is 150. On the flip side, I also think that people who demand acceptance should reciprocate the same...meaning, that IF someone is 125lbs, get to know them first before labeling them a "skinny bitch". I think that the term size acceptance is important to remember that it should include ALL sizes and shapes.

I have no idea if this makes any sense..it's 6:00am and I haven't had coffee yet...so this might be one of those things that sound OK in my head and when I get home from work at 6 tonight I'll look at it and say "wtf??"
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:57 AM   #5
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[QUOTE=goofy girl;611197]The term size acceptance has always somewhat bothered me. My interpretation of it is just as it says..to accept everyone no matter what their size...if someone is 650lbs they are just as much a person as a person who is 150. On the flip side, I also think that people who demand acceptance should reciprocate the same...meaning, that IF someone is 125lbs, get to know them first before labeling them a "skinny bitch". I think that the term size acceptance is important to remember that it should include ALL sizes and shapes.
QUOTE]

I'm totally with you on this - size acceptance is for ALL & EVERYONE, not just us bigg'ens. So the term itself doesn't bother me and I find it quite fitting.

I'm with you on the "passenger bill of rights" - OMG a woman was denied the right to breastfeed?? I hope she owns the airline company that denied her now........don't even get me on my soapbox on a woman's natural right to breastfeed in public unashamed. And no big people should not have to "buy" a second seat..........maybe if they have such a problem with big people flying then they should make seats that are twice as big and scatter them throughout the plane so they can make sure a big person can get a big chair without having to be segregated by solely making a big person's seating area. The whole buying a second seat really chaps my ass.....your still ONE PERSON FLYING!
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by superodalisque View Post
i was thinking today about the term "size acceptance" and what it really means. it somewhat bothers me that people are asking to be "accepted". i think the most important thing would be to accept yourself personally and then sue the pants off anyone who violates your rights. "size acceptance" just sounds whimpy to me.

i also wonder if it is good to seperate that from plain old rights? because once you seperate yourself you become the other and it seems easier for other people with the same concerns not to relate. for instance, i wonder if issues with the airlines would be better solved by creating a passengers bill of rights and having all people with a beef sign on. that would include everyone from passengers required to buy a second seat to the lady who was forced off the plane for wearing a mini, or someone denied the right to breastfeed. do you think something like that would be more effective or am i all wet?

PS: excuse me if you notice typos--i can't spell and for some reason my spellcheck wouldn't kick in.
Yes, it is a very wimpy term. We, in this society (America/Western Europe), tend not to realize that being "mainstream" is not being accepted, it is being celebrated. This is what I think is wrong with the concept of "tolerance" being used as the rubric for how people should deal with difference. As if they should say "I hate you and will do anything in my power in the institutional sense to make your life miserable, but I won't call you a nasty name because I can tolerate your presence for briefly." For all the work it takes to even establish that tolerance is good, the pay off leaves a lot to be desired. It doesn't address the underlying antipathy and hostility. Tolerance implies that something is actually wrong with the "toleree" but that the "toleree" should be the bigger person and just let things go. Acceptance is the same sort of thing. I think that what those in the Fat Acceptance movement want is celebration of who they are and an appreciation of their beauty and worth.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:30 PM   #7
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I think that what those in the Fat Acceptance movement want is celebration of who they are and an appreciation of their beauty and worth.
My interpretation is that I do not think that is the case. I think most fat people want to just be considered equal. For example, the plane seating issue. We should not have to pay double the price just to fly somewhere (anywhere). There should be seating on the plane to accommodate all sizes of people, and not just lump all seats together so that the airline can make extra cash. Same goes with movie theaters. Why are the only fat seats selective to the very front of the theater? Fat people have to break their neck to watch a movie, but everyone else does not? That's bullshit.
Whether it's plane seats, movie theater seats, concert seating, walking down the street, furniture selection, any/all of the above and much more, everyone should have the option to be as comfortable as the person next to them. To be accepted by society is a marvelous thing. Something that is taken for granted by millions of people.
As it is, I think the term Size Acceptance is fitting. I like the term, and I qualify as someone that supports it.

I like to think that those of us who love fat people will be the ones to celebrate the fat person.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:12 AM   #8
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My interpretation is that I do not think that is the case. I think most fat people want to just be considered equal. For example, the plane seating issue. We should not have to pay double the price just to fly somewhere (anywhere). There should be seating on the plane to accommodate all sizes of people, and not just lump all seats together so that the airline can make extra cash. Same goes with movie theaters. Why are the only fat seats selective to the very front of the theater? Fat people have to break their neck to watch a movie, but everyone else does not? That's bullshit.
Whether it's plane seats, movie theater seats, concert seating, walking down the street, furniture selection, any/all of the above and much more, everyone should have the option to be as comfortable as the person next to them. To be accepted by society is a marvelous thing. Something that is taken for granted by millions of people.
As it is, I think the term Size Acceptance is fitting. I like the term, and I qualify as someone that supports it.

I like to think that those of us who love fat people will be the ones to celebrate the fat person.
I can understand that. I just can't help think of the way that the scenarios you described, because of their implicit message of average sized normativity, in a very small way celebrate the bodies of those people who are accepted by society. I just think there's more to be attained than mere acceptance. As a person who fits that "normal" body size label, I know that I'm not just accepted, I'm celebrated in the depictions of models, the manufacturing of chairs, the purchasing of single plane tickets, etc. I am privileged because of my size. The opposite of privilege is not equality or acceptance, its disprivilege, and I think that that is how fat people are treated (maybe I'm wrong though). I agree that those of us who love fat people are the ones who should celebrate them, but I also think we've got a lot of loving to do to equal the degree to which "normal sized" people are loved by this society.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:35 PM   #9
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If "size acceptance" is too wimpy for you, how about "fat supremacy?"
Too militant?
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Old 11-21-2007, 06:38 PM   #10
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UGH.....that cartoon pissed me off!! How insulting! THOSE are the kinds of things that get under my skin..I guess stereotypes of any sort bug me.
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Old 11-21-2007, 06:44 PM   #11
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Ok, Wonkette, I know what you really want! Fat Power!!!
damn straight fellow wonkette! lol. instead of raising our fists in the air like the black panthers maybe we could stick out our bellies instead
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Old 11-21-2007, 06:46 PM   #12
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UGH.....that cartoon pissed me off!! How insulting! THOSE are the kinds of things that get under my skin..I guess stereotypes of any sort bug me.
me too. i'm too proud to be a joke
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Old 11-21-2007, 06:53 PM   #13
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My interpretation is that I do not think that is the case. I think most fat people want to just be considered equal. For example, the plane seating issue. We should not have to pay double the price just to fly somewhere (anywhere). There should be seating on the plane to accommodate all sizes of people, and not just lump all seats together so that the airline can make extra cash. Same goes with movie theaters. Why are the only fat seats selective to the very front of the theater? Fat people have to break their neck to watch a movie, but everyone else does not? That's bullshit.
Whether it's plane seats, movie theater seats, concert seating, walking down the street, furniture selection, any/all of the above and much more, everyone should have the option to be as comfortable as the person next to them. To be accepted by society is a marvelous thing. Something that is taken for granted by millions of people.
As it is, I think the term Size Acceptance is fitting. I like the term, and I qualify as someone that supports it.

I like to think that those of us who love fat people will be the ones to celebrate the fat person.

i do support the spirit behind it but i still think sometimes it sounds a bit like whining and begging.

as for the theatre seats--i agree they should accomodate people better. there are a lot of big people where i live and the new theatres all have stadium seating and the new ones are replacing the old seats. reason being is that there are a lot of supers here as a matter of form. also even thin folk would rather not be squeezed in to old hard tiny seats. i love how you can raise the armrests. it would be nice if the airlines had seats like that. if i traveled coach i would buy two seats on my own unless i was traveling with a friend because i would hate to make someone else who had paid uncomfortable just because i adore my twinkies and ho hos.
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Old 11-21-2007, 06:55 PM   #14
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I like "size awareness and acceptance". For smaller chubs like me the supersized world is one I can't even fathom until I hear something like "hygeine aid" or about arms on chairs preventing a person from sitting down in public. As smaller person still I wasn't aware of any of the stuff that affects smaller fat girls. I think it's good to be aware of how other people live their lives and accepting of their choices. There are some things that come under the umbrella of size acceptance that I disagree with completely, but for the most part I think it's a good term that could be ammended just a little bit to include awareness. Then it would rock.
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Old 11-21-2007, 06:58 PM   #15
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Yes, it is a very wimpy term. We, in this society (America/Western Europe), tend not to realize that being "mainstream" is not being accepted, it is being celebrated. This is what I think is wrong with the concept of "tolerance" being used as the rubric for how people should deal with difference. As if they should say "I hate you and will do anything in my power in the institutional sense to make your life miserable, but I won't call you a nasty name because I can tolerate your presence for briefly." For all the work it takes to even establish that tolerance is good, the pay off leaves a lot to be desired. It doesn't address the underlying antipathy and hostility. Tolerance implies that something is actually wrong with the "toleree" but that the "toleree" should be the bigger person and just let things go. Acceptance is the same sort of thing. I think that what those in the Fat Acceptance movement want is celebration of who they are and an appreciation of their beauty and worth.
yes 100%. i think it should be more about teaching people to adore us rather than being meerly accepted. in places like japan where they rarely see a super if ever they just thought i was cute and different. what a nice approach to something they had probably never experienced. people even asked to touch.
what is it about american society that makes us so prone to express disgust toward anything different or rare in human beings?
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:02 PM   #16
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I like "size awareness and acceptance". For smaller chubs like me the supersized world is one I can't even fathom until I hear something like "hygeine aid" or about arms on chairs preventing a person from sitting down in public. As smaller person still I wasn't aware of any of the stuff that affects smaller fat girls. I think it's good to be aware of how other people live their lives and accepting of their choices. There are some things that come under the umbrella of size acceptance that I disagree with completely, but for the most part I think it's a good term that could be ammended just a little bit to include awareness. Then it would rock.
size awareness sounds good even though it doesn't sound very militant lol. i like how it covers a variety of issues. but mainly the teaching aspect of it is great. the educational apsect of awareness would touch everyone on every level. understanding is a great starting point.
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:08 PM   #17
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size awareness sounds good even though it doesn't sound very militant lol. i like how it covers a variety of issues. but mainly the teaching aspect of it is great. the educational apsect of awareness would touch everyone on every level. understanding is a great starting point.
I think the starting point for acceptance is really awareness. I know that a lot of thin people look at me and think I'm just a disgusting lump of overindulging fat (hey, I'm not disgusting!!!!) but what if they knew what it was like to be fat? What if they knew that fat isn't directly correlated to food intake and exercise? Would they treat me better then? Would they be willing to make certain concessions for me and other fat people?
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Old 11-21-2007, 08:25 PM   #18
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what is it about american society that makes us so prone to express disgust toward anything different or rare in human beings?
Unfortunately, bigotry is not a purely American phenomenon...
I'm inclined to think it is the bigotry that is the issue and 'fat' is merely the object. Deal with the underlying psyche causes and the object becomes irrelevant.

There is also the issue of simple preference. Doubtless some people do find fat unattractive just as some find skinny displeasing (my favourite was a local newscaster who described supermodels as 'toothpicks with hair').
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:31 PM   #19
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yes 100%. i think it should be more about teaching people to adore us rather than being meerly accepted. in places like japan where they rarely see a super if ever they just thought i was cute and different. what a nice approach to something they had probably never experienced. people even asked to touch.
what is it about american society that makes us so prone to express disgust toward anything different or rare in human beings?
I think it has to do with how we came to be as a nation. We needed an ideology like racism to justify the theft of the continent and the enslavement of millions of people to build the economic base of the country. It's our traditional way of dealing with difference; we hate it, subordinate it, and exploit it. It is the true American way.
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Old 11-23-2007, 05:28 AM   #20
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I thought tryptophan was supposed to put you to sleep. Oh wait, that's a myth.

I wouldn't say "Wimpy" per se, but because it exists on a level that is analogous with other types of equality views (And/or a fight against prejudice): I believe it should exist on a level that has a name similar to those (Or what I talk about below).

I haven't said much about the concepts I've sort of separated on my own when it comes to what I do (Or what I plan on doing in the future rather), but I kind of have two "Concepts" behind the whole thing: Size "Acceptance," and Size "Equality."

Now: Fat Acceptance (Physiologically) is the disbelief in the correlation between weight and health.
Size Acceptance, to me is the disbelief in a correlation between morality, and bodyweight (That's me trying to be a dictionary, and I know I suck), or in other words, "Not caring about a person's size when it comes to interactions."

I have no problems with Size Acceptance, in that in itself it doesn't imply apathy when people actually begin to understand it instead of thinking "wut omg ur tryna make an excuse to stay fat/thin/wuteva", but I believe in the case of Size Equality that there's no exceptions to the rule*, and the way I use it is I guess you can say "Fat Acceptance lite" again?

Or Size Acceptance lite rather, or Size Acceptance for the new school kids version 3.0. Damn, I don't know.

You accept everyone (Thin, chubby, fat, blah blah blah, descriptors descriptors), you can advocate whatever you wish that isn't directly related to a person's size (Try tact if you can), and while we all have preferences of sexual natures, they should not cross acceptance, as they are different things. In other words: If you like x (Fat partners/thin partners/both/tall partners/short partners, you don't have to berate y, because you think it impresses x, or whatever reason you deem necessary. Heh heh... *Laughs*

I'm all for equal rights for people of size and not of size when it comes to society as a whole (And organizations *Giggles and smiles*), but in any case of any characteristic: I do not wish for society to come for the every beckon of every group that is oppressed. I'm not judging groups of which I do and don't know, but I DO know there's always potential for corruption (i.e.: "Reverse Sizeism" and reverse racism: They piss me off. ). I want reason to come from this.

- The estimated number of people that are killed by Anorexia Nervosa is 1% of 10% of the US population. That is a cool (See: Uncool ) 300,000 people.

If we were to have socialized health care for example, I wouldn't argue that anorectics should have to pay more. Especially since I know science had better pull out some serious ammo to validate a prejudice (And it better make the link that prejudice HELPS in some way to make people change**, or I'm not even considering doing anything). Everyone should pay the same amount (Or the more practical answer: Fill all gaps).

I'm a fat admirer (Not to some, because ZOMFG ONOZ t3h thin women ["Take me to the Brig! I don't mind!]," and I love satire! ), but when things like binge eating disorder, and anorexia nervosa come up: I'll definitely be concerned. However, these are dualistic (Psychological disorders that can lead to physical effects in this case). As soon as the psychology or something else unrelated to size kicks in, I am ready to flex the muscle (Or my lack thereof)!

Those are examples when I don't see bodyweights as indicative of diseases, but POSSIBLE symptoms of diseases/disorders. This doesn't make me a concern troll, because I'm not picking groups: I'm picking people, and you all know the beginning tends to be tactful for me if I react (Big emphasis on "If I react").

All in all:
I think Size Acceptance is good for what it's worth, but I think if we are going to continue on, that it might be applicable to add terms, facets, definitions, and separate concepts more, but of course not to the point that things become separate in themselves. They should all link to one goal, that is "Size/Body" something! Size EQUALITY! SIZE JUSTICE! BODY PRIDE! SIZE ETHICS/BIOETHICS! SIZE HUMANISM!! SIZE ALTRUISM! SIZE RATIONALE! Size logic... kinda.. SIZE Meta-phy..... well we know we can't use the last one, because it doesn't make any sense.

*It's not that I think the current organizations have messages that are always biased, but I know for a fact that there's people on both lines that hate the opposite. Those are not standards, however.
Fat Acceptance and Size Acceptance are different, and I do realize that in the case of the former: Not all people in it defend thin people, but again I don't want people to cross concepts, and say that not defending someone means you hate them.
Sandie (Rapunzel d' le mods ) said in a post awhile ago that I can dredge up if anyone wants to see that she does not defend thin people in her activism (Which may or may not be true, but...). That does not make hypocritical or bigoted, because of what I said above. That being the case, she doesn't hate thin people, and I will formally say that I thank her for each and every contribution that she has made for the movement. And she went on moral court! Sandie rules!

</tryptophan didn't work, so I need some diphenhydramine kthxbai>
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:43 PM   #21
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UGH.....that cartoon pissed me off!! How insulting! THOSE are the kinds of things that get under my skin..I guess stereotypes of any sort bug me.
Yes, I agree that it can be insulting. However, in Judge Dredd's future, everything is magnified to ridiculosity and nothing is safe from parody.

What had happened in this case was, there was a humongous famine which induced severe rationing in Mega-City One. The fat people didn't want to slim down and deliberately hoarded (and then ate) as much food as possible. The more militant groups (i.e. "The League of Fatties") went around hijacking shipments of food, etc. Eventually after this threatened to make the famine much worse, new laws forcing stricter rationing and confinement for those over a certain weight (200kg? I forget) so as to force them to stop being so gluttonous.

Now, what is insulting about this is the inferred stereotype that "they're all that way". But the comic was only about a number of the fatter militants (most of them ultrasize), and didn't have time to focus on those not-quite-so-fat who didn't act that way. Later on there was a fat-positive story about a fat man, although I doubt everyone here would think it was fat-positive considering it was a then-illegal WG contest.

But the storyline has a happy ending. Months later the famine and rationing ended and people could be as fat as they wanted. Afterwards they would appear from time to time (there was even an SSBBW in the short-lived DC version of Dredd) and the worst thing anyone ever called them was "Fatty". Which was what they called themselves anyway.

----

As for size acceptance, I'm not saying we should be a bunch of militant FAs and BBWs and go around forcing our beliefs on others. But I want to be militant about the current fatphobic propaganda. We need some equally counteracting propaganda of our own.
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:07 PM   #22
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As for size acceptance, I'm not saying we should be a bunch of militant FAs and BBWs and go around forcing our beliefs on others. But I want to be militant about the current fatphobic propaganda. We need some equally counteracting propaganda of our own.
Thanks for explaining the comic. It was meant as a joke on militant groups and what would happen if fat people did indeed go militant. I guess the joke went over people's heads. I really didn't mean to offend anyone. Usually that kind of art kills on the Weight Board, but the topic here on the Main board was a little too serious for that kind of tomfoolery. Sorry

By the way, it should be obvious now, but that's where I got my profile name for Dimensions. It's a portmanteau of Judge Dredd and the shorten version of my name which is Dre (from Andres).
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:44 PM   #23
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I actually loved the comic book cover. Does that mean I believe us fat people should mistreat others or become militant in a negative way? Nope. But I'm diggin' the cover.
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Old 11-24-2007, 06:55 AM   #24
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Whether it's plane seats, movie theater seats, concert seating, walking down the street, furniture selection, any/all of the above and much more, everyone should have the option to be as comfortable as the person next to them. To be accepted by society is a marvelous thing. Something that is taken for granted by millions of people.
As it is, I think the term Size Acceptance is fitting. I like the term, and I qualify as someone that supports it.

I like to think that those of us who love fat people will be the ones to celebrate the fat person.
I agree with your post, but let's not forget that there is alot of discrimination when it comes to getting a job, as well as salary & promotional opportunities. Studies have shown that fat women tend to be overlooked in hiring (esp. jobs that deal with the public), are paid less and are overlooked for promotions. I am fortunate to work for a company where size is not an issue (our diversity & community officer is a BBBW). And when it comes to life insurance, it's next to impossible. I just had a health screening, and everything was good - blood sugar, BP, everything, and because of the damned BMI, I was dropped from obtaining life insurance. Some companies are also looking into the possibility of either paying less or dropping altogether large-sized persons for medical insurance coverage. THESE are the issues the large-sized community and NAAFA should become more aggressive about.
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Old 11-24-2007, 06:59 AM   #25
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Thanks for explaining the comic. It was meant as a joke on militant groups and what would happen if fat people did indeed go militant. I guess the joke went over people's heads. I really didn't mean to offend anyone. Usually that kind of art kills on the Weight Board, but the topic here on the Main board was a little too serious for that kind of tomfoolery. Sorry

By the way, it should be obvious now, but that's where I got my profile name for Dimensions. It's a portmanteau of Judge Dredd and the shorten version of my name which is Dre (from Andres).
I wasn't offended, it just pissed me off. I still don't understand the "joke", so I guess it did go over my head. I don't know about comic books or the characters or story lines...so maybe that's why I didn't "get" it, but that one frame without explanation did piss me off a bit.
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