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Old 01-22-2008, 02:44 PM   #26
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Oy. WTF. .........
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:10 PM   #27
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I had a BBW (with a BMI of just over 40) that we did enjoy sex together. She was not very obese as far as I am concerned (meaning she could do everything she wanted) but she decided to have the operation as she was concerned about future health issues.

She has all the plus and minus of the operation but I don't find her that attractive any more. In fact I openly stated to her that if she had stay at her previous weight I would have her over much more often.

hence the reason I favour alternate everywhere.

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I hope that she summons up the self esteem to boot your ass to the curb.
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:42 PM   #28
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Oy. WTF. .........
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I hope that she summons up the self esteem to boot your ass to the curb.
OOf, yah, ditto on both of those comments
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Old 01-22-2008, 04:46 PM   #29
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The hardest thing about my wife

*snipped for space*


fa_man_stan
Stan, I couldn't rep you, but thank you VERY much for sharing all of that. I know it can't be easy to share dark feelings and results of things, and I'm glad you have.

As for your "good riddance"... that makes me horribly sad, as a confident, content fat woman. I hate to think of good, kind, participatory FAs hating the thing that makes so many of them our "Prince Charmings". No one is perfect, but nothing about you has made these things happen.... they just did. I hate that something someone else has chosen to do has made you feel further marginalized, to turn the other cheek on a preference that's so fundamental to who you are as a man.
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Old 01-22-2008, 04:48 PM   #30
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**snipped stuff**
No one cares what a booty call thinks, and this thread is about FAR more than whether he wants to "get wit" his wife anymore.
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Old 01-22-2008, 04:59 PM   #31
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Stan, I couldn't rep you, but thank you VERY much for sharing all of that. I know it can't be easy to share dark feelings and results of things, and I'm glad you have.

As for your "good riddance"... that makes me horribly sad, as a confident, content fat woman. I hate to think of good, kind, participatory FAs hating the thing that makes so many of them our "Prince Charmings". No one is perfect, but nothing about you has made these things happen.... they just did. I hate that something someone else has chosen to do has made you feel further marginalized, to turn the other cheek on a preference that's so fundamental to who you are as a man.
Ditto what AM said. I don't think that I was clear enough in my initial response to you ... I very much appreciated what you had to say, and how clearly you conveyed your own feelings.
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:05 PM   #32
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AnnMarie,

That was an excellent post. It even makes me feel more normal. I think what one of my biggest concerns is that we set ourselves up for failure in the belief that all bbws share that same "confident & content" feelings that you and other women here do. It just doesn't happen that often. Thanks for sharing, though.
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:06 PM   #33
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No one cares what a booty call thinks, and this thread is about FAR more than whether he wants to "get wit" his wife anymore.
Oh AnnMarie you know how to push a girl's buttons.
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:08 PM   #34
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Any ideas?
Maybe--and I'm just theorizing here--you are upset by the sudden decision to have surgery because it signals that whatever degree of control over your wife's body ("ownership" of your wife's body) you felt you had previously has now been decisively terminated.
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:09 PM   #35
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Her BP was very high that day- it has always run high at the drs b/c of "dr. office anxiety", but it was even higher that day. AND she had gained 10 lbs. even though she had been quite diligent in her eating choices.
How do you know that her high BP was always due to doctor anxiety? I could see it being explained away as an anomoly if she had a few high readings, on days that she felt particularly anxious. But you said that it has "always run high at the drs" ... this seems like a symptom of HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE to me, not a symptom of doctor anxiety.

In my particular case, there was a very definite & marked increase in my blood pressure, with every visit to the doctor that corresponded with weight gain. Back in the late 90's, I had a few incidents of high BP that my doctor did dismiss as possible anxiety, because for the most part, the readings were well within normal ranges. But ... once they became consistently high ... and then higher with each period of weight gain ... they stopped talking about anxiety and started discussing plans for me to bring my BP under control. And, even on medication, it was still in the 130's/high 80's. I'm fortunate in that my BP is now consistently on the low end of normal. I do know that many people who had WLS aren't as lucky ... some never notice any difference at all, even as they are losing weight.

I do wish your wife luck and hope that she does well post-operatively.
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:19 PM   #36
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No one cares what a booty call thinks, and this thread is about FAR more than whether he wants to "get wit" his wife anymore.
Thanks again, AnnMarie. I tried to make that so very clear. It's not just about sex and it's not about getting her to change her mind (too late anyway) or behave differently.

It's about me understanding why this is so devastating to me, and helping her understand that too so that she knows me better, and so she can react with compassion rather than bewilderment or anger when she sees me feeling sad.

It is an attempt to fish for possible reasons beyond sex, beyond worries about change, and beyond insecurity about her leaving (Those are legitimate concerns for some people, but as smug as it sounds, I don't believe I have any reason to worry about those things. Really.)

And THAT's why it's so bewildering about this for me, because despite my confidence about those basic, "everyone has this" WLS concerns, I'm still feeling emotionally devastated, shocked, angry, sad, etc.

And I want to hear from others who have gone thru this, or any kind of massive, lasting weight loss in a partner. I'd like to know how they got thru it, how things are now, if they saw it coming, if it got worse when the weight started dropping and the results became more and more dramatic, how their partner (the weight loser) reacted to their emotions, etc.

Well, with all that being said, it's true that I'd ALSO like to know how it affected sex. Cause that is kind of a big deal to me, for whatever reason. I think I'm a nice man and all, but still, ya know, men in general do sort of care quite a bit about that stuff...
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Old 01-22-2008, 06:27 PM   #37
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How do you know that her high BP was always due to doctor anxiety? I could see it being explained away as an anomoly if she had a few high readings, on days that she felt particularly anxious. But you said that it has "always run high at the drs" ... this seems like a symptom of HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE to me, not a symptom of doctor anxiety.
Well, we both knew that it was both high and higher b/c of dr. office anxiety. We knew b/c every reading at the dr. office, taken at later and later time intervals, was lower. And we know that at home it was consistently lower - still high end of normal - but closer to the later readings at the dr. office.

I almost didn’t mention ANY concrete health factors in the OP, b/c I was afraid people here would either abruptly dismiss them - as in "you don't KNOW that x was caused by weight" or "even thin people get x, you know" etc. OR they would flame me, as in, "you inconsiderate bastard, don't you realize she could DIE from x!".

And the whole idea of this thread was not to solicit health care facts and advice, in either direction. It was to vent and to try to find out what others might think are factors in making this such an emotionally difficult situation, and to hear how others have experienced it and dealt with it.

Your posts have been very helpful in that regard. Thanks.
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Old 01-22-2008, 06:34 PM   #38
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...Cause that is kind of a big deal to me, for whatever reason. I think I'm a nice man and all, but still, ya know, men in general do sort of care quite a bit about that stuff...
Yeah.

Not just men, chad. Not just men.

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Old 01-22-2008, 07:09 PM   #39
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I'm confused about something. How is this any different than people divorcing stating Irreconcilable differences? When major changes happen in people sometimes their partners can't handle it - it doesn't make them bad people it makes them human. If I dropped 200 lbs not only would I be a completely different person physically but also emotionally. If Wayne could not handle who I became I'm not sure that's anyones fault. I would like to think we would both love each other no matter what - but there are so many extenuating circumstances that could happen in the course of a marriage I'm surprised anyone stays married.

Losing a large amount of weight is a major upheaval in any relationship, if counseling doesn't help sometimes people have to go their seperate ways - for the good of everyone.
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:18 PM   #40
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...
As for your "good riddance"... that makes me horribly sad,
...
AnnMarie, my early morning posts sometimes get a bit mellow dramatic... I don't think I've gotten to the point of "good riddance" as far as my inner FA goes, but I do miss him sometimes.

Also, I didn't mean to infer that you (Fachad) are a pervert or anything... just using that for emphasis.




Thanks for all the reps and thoughts which I received...
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:26 AM   #41
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Default Compromise.

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It's hard to swallow, because she holds all the power, and I am just forced - strong armed - into going with whatever she decides. It is a "she gets 100%, I get 0% outcome". In normal circumstances, that would be unacceptable to anyone with any measure of self-respect. So I have to work and try hard to see how this is different, because I don't want to feel like one of those people who is totally without self-worth and who just "takes whatever they get and likes it". I know this situation is different, but it sure FEELS that way.
Just an observation about what compromise means. It really jumps out at me that you've repeatedly used this phrase, that she gets 100% of what she wants and you get nothing.

I have to agree with Mossystate that it's not truly possible to compromise in a "written in stone" way about something as personal as one's body size. It's just such a personal thing, and as you've said, she's the one who carries it. She's the one who walks by stores in the shopping malls and knows she can't buy any clothes, she's the one with high blood pressure, she's the one who "feels" her weight when she walks up a flight of stairs or wedges herself into an airline seat.

But about compromise. A close relative of mine who's been happily married for many years after 2 shorter and very unhappy marriages has said about compromise "If I'm cold, and you're hot, we don't agree to open the window halfway." Or from another perspective, if I want to go rock climbing and you want to go to the opera, we don't just pick a third choice, because the ultimate outcome is that nobody is getting what he or she wants. I think that's what happened in your attempt to compromise on your wife's size: She wasn't fat enough to satisfy your sexual urges and she wasn't thin enough to shop in regular clothing store. In essence what you did is agreed that neither of you would be happy.

Compromise is not always about meeting halfway. It's been said if you try to walk the middle of the road you get run over.

So what you have now is a real compromise. One of you is happy and the other isn't. But that's part of any relationship, no different from the above example in which I'd go to the opera and shut up about it because I knew it was what you wanted to do.
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:02 AM   #42
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So what you have now is a real compromise. One of you is happy and the other isn't. But that's part of any relationship, no different from the above example in which I'd go to the opera and shut up about it because I knew it was what you wanted to do.
This is a really sad compromise In fact, I don't think that's a compromise at all, LovesBHMS ... but I understand what you are saying, and I absolutely agree with you. On second go-round with this thread, I find myself growing impatient.

When I had surgery, I didn't know that my husband wouldn't be thrilled with my smaller body. We didn't talk about it. We were both focused on other goals (primary one being, having a child). When I met him, I was very small, and we had a very active & enjoyable sex life. I had no reason to think that he wouldn't like me to be small again, although I frankly hadn't considered it. Really, I was just tired of carrying around an extra 140 pounds ... physically and emotionally. From my perspective, losing the weight was essential. I should mention though, that to my husband, my "ideal" weight is around 200 pounds. More than that is too big, less is too small. Obviously, he's lived with both extremes. But in terms of preferences, his are somewhat narrow.

I don't want to be 200 pounds again, and I cannot gain that weight just to please him. That would crush my spirit. Fortunately, my husband can live with that decision, because he loves me and he wants me to be happy. And, judging by his enthusiastic reaction to *my* renewed sex drive, he's not just "settling", either.

So, on the one hand, there is my need to feel healthy, active and fit. *I* live in this body, not him. And from his perspective, there is the reality that he's more attracted to soft curves and a rounded tummy and fleshy thighs. Which is more important? I'll put it this way: He's entitled to his preference, but If he REQUIRED that I gain weight in order to continue the relationship, I'd leave him. And I'd take our son, along with an enormous chunk of our shared assets. One day, he might have to live with the knowledge that another man is living in his home, sharing a life with his son. My requirements are that he love me as I am, even if he'd *prefer* me bigger, and that he acknowledge that his physical preference should never even come close to trumping my health and well-being.

So, I have to admit, I get a little uptight and impatient with the "my wife lost weight and now things have changed and I'm not as attracted to her and what should I do?!?!" Because, to me, it feels like that man is putting a preference above the fact that his wife LIVES IN HER BODY AND HE DOESN'T. He doesn't own her body. Some men will qualify their positions by stating that realistically, they know they can't have what they want .... they are just venting, etc. And on the other side of the spectrum, there are women who tell them just what they want to hear: It's OK to feel this way, and it's OK to not be as attracted to your wife anymore and to eventually leave her. I can just imagine someone saying that to my husband, and how appalled and horrified I'd feel. Because to me, it's NOT OK. People who are dating or in casual relationships get to opt out if things aren't working. People who commit to a marriage, and ESPECIALLY those who have children together, have made a vow to be there for each other "for better or worse... in sickness and in health."

Lots of men have to live with the reality that their wives had cancerous breasts removed. Yeah, it's rough ... but nobody would suggest that these men should feel OK with leaving a wife they are no longer as attracted to. Professionals would advise these men to acknowledge their feelings of grief and loss, and learn how to live with a new reality. Most would call men who cannot do that shallow and extremely selfish. Their wives are who they always were ... minus a body part. Why is the advise given in a weight loss situation any different?

I know... some will say that WLS is "cosmetic" or "elective". God forbid, we acknowledge that for some people, excess weight is truly damaging, physically and emotionally.
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:18 AM   #43
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Maybe compromise is the wrong word, maybe it's more of an agreement really.

There are some things on which you can't compromise such as having children, you can't have half a child. If one partner wants three kids and the other doesn't want children, it's not a compromise to have one child, because the addition of even one child to one's life is going to change all the things that the previously child free by choice person did not want changed.

While there is obviously a continuum when it comes to size, (as in Traci's example, weighing 200 pounds is obviously different from weighing 250 pounds) most people know at what weight they're going to feel comfortable. And like it or not, doctors may have a preferred weight for a patient at which they believe a patient will have optimal health.

What hits me though, about the OP is the depth of anger and sadness he's encountering over this. To not have a single moment without grief in a month, to be unable to think good thoughts, are extreme indications of misery.

I do applaud him for attempting to focus on his own feelings rather than on what his wife has "done to him." And hopefully he'll be able to work through what seems like some very deep anger over the idea that she's "getting something she wants when he's NOT getting what he wants." Truthfully this is what seems to be the real issue with the OP, the idea that his wife has done something that upsets him and now she's happy and he's not.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:27 AM   #44
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As for your "good riddance"... that makes me horribly sad, as a confident, content fat woman. I hate to think of good, kind, participatory FAs hating the thing that makes so many of them our "Prince Charmings". No one is perfect, but nothing about you has made these things happen.... they just did. I hate that something someone else has chosen to do has made you feel further marginalized, to turn the other cheek on a preference that's so fundamental to who you are as a man.
I had the same reaction, although I didn't know what to say...still don't quite. Breaks my heart.

I have a lot of reactions to all this! I really feel for the OP. I'd say the dilemma is really clear....sigh. Not that that makes it any easier to navigate or resolved. Just clear.

For what it's worth, *knowing* what the dilemma is, and seeing it well-articulated by others, really isn't the same as hashing it out when you're feeling feelings. Therapy's not exactly about knowing better, it's more about...getting you where you gotta be. You're the one that's gotta figure that out, you and she. So I'd throw my vote in with that, with a good therapist who understands some of the issues here.

I (my opinion only) have incredibly strong feelings about WLS...it's hard for me to imagine ever countenancing it in a million years. But...I guess you never *quite* know, eh. Same as other things in marriage. Things change. The X factor I am incredibly aware of in the whole size-acceptance paradigm these days is Aging. Nothing stays the same. Women's bodies, men's bodies.

But what an extreme thing to deal with, I've thought this any time WLS and primary relationships come up. It's a weird modern life situation. And I'm not sure it's all reconcilable, as Stan says--although I really don't know from that side--and as RW said, in a diff way. Good intentions and all...I'm not sure the outcome to anything concerning this is guaranteed. [This is seriously unrelated, but I know someone who left his wife of over 45 years recently...it has made me newly aware that this stuff is just not a given.]

All I can say is it makes me sad/little scared, esp as a single fat chick... Maybe that's not a cool thing to say, but what can I say, it's a (generalized) reaction I have. I'm not saying I know any better, nor am I idealizing other people's relationships, I'm just sayin....life. Blimey.

Best of luck to OP and those navigating this situation.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:34 AM   #45
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I had a BBW (with a BMI of just over 40) that we did enjoy sex together. She was not very obese as far as I am concerned (meaning she could do everything she wanted) but she decided to have the operation as she was concerned about future health issues.

She has all the plus and minus of the operation but I don't find her that attractive any more. In fact I openly stated to her that if she had stay at her previous weight I would have her over much more often.

hence the reason I favour alternate everywhere.

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you are everything thats depressing about shallow, objectifying, relationship-phobic, statistic-obsessed FA stereotypes...

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Old 01-23-2008, 09:50 AM   #46
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The hardest thing about my wife getting WLS is that I felt it was yet another insult to my preference for being attracted to fat women, one of many insults I’ve endured my entire life. I never wanted to be attracted to something that a woman hated about herself. This was just one more thing reinforcing what a pervert I am for being attracted to fat women, a condition they themselves don’t like. I had no problem with my wife making a decision like this about her body; she is the one who ultimately pays the price for decisions about her health. ..........snipped........I didn’t know those times were so horrible for her. Sometimes I wish the FA inside of me would just go away and die. Maybe it already has… good riddance.

Having “the weight” being gone from your wife’s body is only a fraction of what you are going to go through Fachad, only a fraction.


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You're da man, Stan!!! You love your wife and prioritize
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example to follow.
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Fat is only ugly to those who hate.

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Old 01-23-2008, 10:24 AM   #47
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Just an observation about what compromise means. It really jumps out at me that you've repeatedly used this phrase, that she gets 100% of what she wants and you get nothing.
.
Perhaps it's a half the marriage is one way, and the other half is another way. By which I mean: maybe she compromised more in the beginning. You did say that she knew your preferred weight limits and you negotiated that and perhaps it was more than she wanted all along. I'm not saying your'e the bad guy, but I'm wondering if that's true. If she wanted to be thinner longer ago than you realize, but she knew you preferred she be heavier. So you got your ...15 (?) years of her at a heavier weight than she preferred, and now, she gets her however-many-years at a weight she prefers? Does that thought make it any more palatable for you, any less threatening to you? To see it as a fairness thing?

ETA: i read Loves post on this (after I posted) and basically, I'm seconding her thoughts. Very well written.
And I still say therapy isn't something to be written off just b/c we think someone doesn't understand fatness issues. C'mon. If we want to say that fatness is normal and mainstream and not a fetish and just like everything else, then we need to mean that. A therapist with a degree not off a boxtop can deal with feelings of rejection and sorrow in a marriage. It's job security, baby!I would argue that continued feelings of rejection/isolation would harm a marriage just as much as, if not more than, WLS.

Last edited by Jes; 01-23-2008 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 01-23-2008, 10:35 AM   #48
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TraciJo67,
Pure food for thought your comment. What is funny about me and her is that we talk each day we like to be around each other but I am just not attracted to her anymore in a sexual sense.

Thanks again for the wake up call ()

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Old 01-23-2008, 11:14 AM   #49
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TraciJo67,
Pure food for thought your comment. What is funny about me and her is that we talk each day we like to be around each other but I am just not attracted to her anymore in a sexual sense.

Thanks again for the wake up call ()

op user
Hopefully with time she'll get over that.
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:52 PM   #50
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I want to thank everyone so much for the responses to my post.

I know it's not over yet - it's only just begun - but I have felt so much better in the past few days. And a HUGE part of that is due to the help I have received from everyone here. Every response - and I mean EVERY response has been helpful in some way or other.

Some have been sympathetic, some have been insightful, and some have been negative. Everyone loves getting sympathy and gaining insight, but even the negative responses have helped my in a way I never imagined.

The insights I have gained into what it is that is bothering me so much have allowed me to begin to work my way out of thinking in those ways. And some of the negative responses have spurred me to decisively refute distorted negative thoughts, which I bought into when they were coming from me, but which I saw thru and refused to accept when they were coming from somebody else.

I hope this thread keeps active for a while, because even thought there is already a goldmine of insight here, and I've started to feel better, I know that I have a way to go and that this is a vast topic that is bound to affect many people here in one way or another at some time in their lives. And this topic has more angles than you can shake a stick at.

There are so very many posts that I want to respond to - both to thank people for their insight and support, and to ask them to clarify things, and to let them know exactly how I've been helped by what they said. But there are so many and I've only got so much time in a day...If you've posted, please check back once in a while over the coming days and weeks because I do want to respond to many, many posts.
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