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Old 03-08-2008, 06:35 PM   #51
SoVerySoft
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Originally Posted by olwen View Post
No, we shouldn't have any sympathy for guys like that and Zoner's story is the reason why. He wasn't true to himself and wasted 15 years of his life and his ex-wife's life. (Sorry Zoner, but it's true) She could have been happy with someone else. He could have spent those 15 years with someone who would have excited and fulfilled him -someone fat, who would also have been happy. Those were 15 years he wouldn't have had to pretend. Years he will never get back. I have to wonder too why it took him 15 years to learn to be true to himself...
From what Zoner has told us, it doesn't sound like he could have known those years would be wasted (or really, if they even were. I say they weren't.)

It sounds like he thought long and hard about what was right for him way back when, and chose to commit to a relationship that was based on a connection that was stronger than anything he had experienced before. I'll bet a good percentage of people enter into marriages for reasons a lot less reasonable or well thought out. And some of those marriages work out, and some don't.

People grow, people change, marriages sometimes fail. Even if the cause can be traced back to factors existing at the very beginning of the relationship, I don't think people should blame themselves. It doesn't necessarily mean they made poor decisions at the time or weren't true to themselves.
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:10 PM   #52
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Hi everyone,
I just wanted to say that this is a great thread with lots of great posts. I think that we should try and learn from one another rather than decide to not have any sympathy for those who make errors or misjudgments in their lives. I have tried hard to socialize my children to accept others and that beauty can be many many things, qualities, and physical characteristics. It seems to be the only way that I can personally change the world's prejudgement of others.

If we just say, no, lets not have any sympathy/empathy for others, then how can we expect other parts of society to empathize with us and our trials and tribulations? I am sad that Zoner and his partner never found the IDEAL relationship, but I would say it sounds like they had a great friendship. How many people in life truly find the IDEAL relationship and total bliss? Not many, I would hazard to quess. The old addage of "It is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all" says much to chew upon.

I think that many of life's problems stem from people not having the ability to value understanding differences and respecting differences.

I also feel that sympathy isn't as healthy as empathy and correct me if I am wrong Olwen, maybe that is what you are meaning when you say don't sympathize with Zoner? Who says he wasted 15 years? Was she not an active person in that relationship? Could she not have had a share in the accountability for continuing or not continuing the relationship? I also feel that we should not condemn of judge others for the lives they lead. It is their life...their joys....their mistakes...no one knows the full truth in any relationship unless you live it.

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No, we shouldn't have any sympathy for guys like that and Zoner's story is the reason why. He wasn't true to himself and wasted 15 years of his life and his ex-wife's life. (Sorry Zoner, but it's true) She could have been happy with someone else. He could have spent those 15 years with someone who would have excited and fulfilled him -someone fat, who would also have been happy. Those were 15 years he wouldn't have had to pretend. Years he will never get back. I have to wonder too why it took him 15 years to learn to be true to himself...

I have to wonder what he would have done if the situation were the other way around. What would have happened if he knew he wasn't attracted to BBW's and said girl was fat instead of thin. Would he still have married her?

Anyway, I say again, NO, we should not have any sympathy of any kind for closeted FA jerks.
Zoner, thanks for sharing a personal look into your life. I hope you find happiness in whatever path your life takes you. Olwen, I hope you find happiness too.

Sincerely,

Tara
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:17 PM   #53
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From what Zoner has told us, it doesn't sound like he could have known those years would be wasted (or really, if they even were. I say they weren't.)

It sounds like he thought long and hard about what was right for him way back when, and chose to commit to a relationship that was based on a connection that was stronger than anything he had experienced before. I'll bet a good percentage of people enter into marriages for reasons a lot less reasonable or well thought out. And some of those marriages work out, and some don't.

People grow, people change, marriages sometimes fail. Even if the cause can be traced back to factors existing at the very beginning of the relationship, I don't think people should blame themselves. It doesn't necessarily mean they made poor decisions at the time or weren't true to themselves.
Thank you, SVS and Tarella. That means a lot to me. You're both very kind.

And olwen, I didn't mean to indicate anything personally against you in my response. I was just objecting to something that seemed to be implied. And I'd like to second the final statement in Tarella's post.

And not that it's relevant, but Tarella's profile pic is exercising my rediscovered hormones.

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Old 03-08-2008, 07:29 PM   #54
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But jeez, how many whiny "I'm with a thin woman and I secretly want a fat one" or "I can't bear to tell my friends/family that I'm an FA" must we hear?

When I first joined dimensions I had great compassion for these stories, because yes, our society is fat-phobic for everyone involved, but my patience has worn thin. I'm more and more convinced that some guys just don't want what they have and if they got what they thought they wanted, they wouldn't want that either.

Solution? See Just Jen's post above.

p.s. grrr!
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:50 PM   #55
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But jeez, how many whiny "I'm with a thin woman and I secretly want a fat one" or "I can't bear to tell my friends/family that I'm an FA" must we hear?

When I first joined dimensions I had great compassion for these stories, because yes, our society is fat-phobic for everyone involved, but my patience has worn thin. I'm more and more convinced that some guys just don't want what they have and if they got what they thought they wanted, they wouldn't want that either.

Solution? See Just Jen's post above.

p.s. grrr!
I see your point, but I've also always believed there are more to these stories than we hear. Not that the posters are lying, but that they are focusing on a single aspect of their relationship when in truth things are probably a lot more complex. Maybe in some cases it really is a matter of a guy being so purely sexually hardwired towards BBW/SSBBW that he can not become sexually aroused otherwise, and he has partnered with the wrong person. But when relationships fail, or are failing, there are usually reasons beyond sexual attraction or lack thereof. And even when the sexual attraction isn't there, there may be reasons beyond size, even if that's a pretty easy thing on which to focus.

Many of us have found ourselves sexually attracted to somebody we thought was not our type. I recently dated a very skinny younger guy and the sex was beyond amazing.

Also, if a relationship fails for some other reason or reason, and a person is looking outside, s/he will likely naturally start with whatever is most appealing. A close friend of mine has a fetish for older women; he's even said he is surprised he wound up married somebody his own age because he'd always dated older women. Their marriage has now failed for a combination of reasons having nothing to do with sexual desire. But now that he is looking for available women, he's saying things like "I want to find a hot older woman." But his marriage did not fail because he didn't marry somebody who fit his sexual ideal.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:00 PM   #56
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Sweet & Fat....rep...comin right up.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:04 PM   #57
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I see your point, but I've also always believed there are more to these stories than we hear. Not that the posters are lying, but that they are focusing on a single aspect of their relationship when in truth things are probably a lot more complex. Maybe in some cases it really is a matter of a guy being so purely sexually hardwired towards BBW/SSBBW that he can not become sexually aroused otherwise, and he has partnered with the wrong person. But when relationships fail, or are failing, there are usually reasons beyond sexual attraction or lack thereof. And even when the sexual attraction isn't there, there may be reasons beyond size, even if that's a pretty easy thing on which to focus.

Many of us have found ourselves sexually attracted to somebody we thought was not our type. I recently dated a very skinny younger guy and the sex was beyond amazing.

Also, if a relationship fails for some other reason or reason, and a person is looking outside, s/he will likely naturally start with whatever is most appealing. A close friend of mine has a fetish for older women; he's even said he is surprised he wound up married somebody his own age because he'd always dated older women. Their marriage has now failed for a combination of reasons having nothing to do with sexual desire. But now that he is looking for available women, he's saying things like "I want to find a hot older woman." But his marriage did not fail because he didn't marry somebody who fit his sexual ideal.
I agree with you- I guess my quibble is the consistently present one to one comparison of an existing flesh-and-blood partner with some fantasy of a BBW/SSBBW, not real women. Not all cases, but certainly the most annoying ones!
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:15 PM   #58
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I agree with you- I guess my quibble is the consistently present one to one comparison of an existing flesh-and-blood partner with some fantasy of a BBW/SSBBW, not real women. Not all cases, but certainly the most annoying ones!
Oh, you're right. And in the cases where it may be true that *everything* is there with the sole exception 200 more pounds on the female, I always wonder if the guy has thought it through that even when he finds that SSBBW who will sexually fulfill him, she's not going to be the same person on the inside as what he has now. So i always hope these guys realize that all the things they do love and value and appreciate about the current partner are not going to be there anymore when she's gone.

I even sometimes wonder if X numbers of years into the new relationship, when problems start coming (as they always do) if he won't look back and think "Why did I let _______ get away?"
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:28 PM   #59
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May as well get over the whole "what will people think" issue because if it's not one thing in life, it's another. People are going to pick something out to get on you about, so you may as well date who you want to date and be happy with it.
Exactly...and Thank You

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Methinx lotsa men love fat women but won't admit it due to peer pressure. Maybe I'm hopelessly vain, but I've noticed this sometime when we've had a short wait at a restaurant, and I've opted to stand (rather than sit in one of those comfy sofas stuffed with quicksand which swallow fat women). I've noticed more than a few men seated nearby try not to be too obvious as they eye my supersize assets and get, er, excited. It's funny when their skinny little wives get upset and hiss, "Stop staring at that fat bitch!" Cool, a middle-aged obese woman like me can still turn heads. Sometimes when I notice this, I rock back and forth on the balls of my feet to increase the jiggle factor (although my cover story is that it eases back strain when I just stand).
You know, I have thought of this lately after reading some of the threads about FAs. I suspect some men don't even realize they like/prefer thicker/heavier women.....and I also think more than 10% of the male population has this tendency (I have heard this statistic quoted a few times so that's why I'm running with it).
I have said before that I had thought I had "converted" a couple of ex-bf's but now that I think about it.....I think I simply could have been a "stepping stone" to where they really wanted to go...but just didn't know it yet

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With the right attitude, obesity can be liberating.
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On the flip side, yes alot of fat women would like to date, but I don't really see it being dependent upon those (wo)men who don't have their acts together yet...because that's what I feel this is about. Growing up and not making apologies for who you are and what you do. I feel like focusing on those people exerts too much energy and unneccessary stress when I could be out trying to make a connection happen. And maybe it also just depends on if you have to have someone that self-identifies as an (F)FA? Dunno...
I want to play Devil's advocate myself now........



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You know I tend to agree with most everything Ripley posted but sought to think of another reason. I see FAs on this board also complain a lot about "lack of confidence". Does this play a role in why they might be with a thinner/chubby woman? Is the thinner woman more confident in accepting advances from men? More flirtatious/open/experienced? I haven't always been a "wall flower" even though I have been chubby to fat and back again since the onset of puberty. Why is this? I suspect it actually could be my way of being "open" or putting myself out there. I don't mind to be the lone voice in the room speaking out, or the person that cracks the joke in the dead silence. I get myself noticed....sometimes unintentionally ( ). I talk to people easily and I'm very friendly. This probably goes a long way towards meeting new people.
Don't know....just tossing something out there though basically I tend to agree with the status quo that it's silly to complain to a board full of fat women because you CHOSE to marry a thin one.


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I know there is some difference of opinion here about "size acceptance" vs. "fat acceptance." When we see these posts, many of the responses are along the lines of "Hey, sexual attraction is important and you need to break up with her and be with somebody who excites you sexually." For those of us who favor size acceptance rather than fat acceptance, I wonder what the reaction would be to a man saying "I really love my wife but since she gained 150 pounds i'm just not hot for her anymore. I can't help the way I feel, she's a great person but the fat is a turnoff."

I'd be curious to see if there was a different ratio of "Dump her" to "Accept her as she is."
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It's an interesting thought process to work through.

At one point we had a discussion about something similar, and you pointed out that there is nothing "noble" about being an FA, it's just about your sexuality. It does not make you a better person any more than being thin/fat does.

Yet for some reason, it seems that a guy who leaves a woman who gained weight is shallow, and a guy who leaves a woman who loses weight is just following his true self/nature. I admit to thinking the same way, so I guess I'm as biased/judgmental as anyone.

If we assume for argument's sake that somebody has total control over her size, should we feel that a woman married to an FA "deserves" to lose her man if she loses weight?

Or that a smaller woman who is unwilling to gain weight is somehow less committed to her relationship than a woman who eats salad and exercises every day to keep in shape for her husband? I wonder if an FA could be justified in telling a small/average woman "if you really loved me you'd want to look good for me and you'd gain weight."
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Indeed.

Believe it or not, sexual attraction is not a relationship's be all - end all. It's possible to fall for someone you're not fucking. It seems like few people realize this?

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I think you've got it absolutely right Lilly. Time and change happen to everyone, so you can't base something just on physical attraction. Actually, sometimes you might not even be able to count on the personality you fell in love with either. People can get diseases or injuries or go through a depression, in other words, even the personality can change sometimes. I think that it makes sense to try to find someone who at the outset of a relationship fulfills as many of your dreams as possible, but a true committed relationship for the long term really has to be faced with the reality that, no matter what else happens, you won't be the same people at 80 that you are at 30 in many ways. Also, there are times when building a life together causes a couple to focus on so many other things that while sex is important, it might be less important for a time. I have heard this from every couple with a new born baby for example. Life tests you, it really does and I think more relationships would last if people thought ahead.

JFX....THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to all three of you....sometimes I feel like I am beating my head against a wall when I try to make these points at other times/threads.


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I agree but does anybody truly ever find the girl/guy of their dreams? Millions of married guys fap to Pemala Anderson. I think the question we have to ask ourselves is if my beloved changed would I still want to be with him/her? Maybe the definition of 'love' for a lot of people needs to change for those who are mistaking love for something it is not. Still thinking out loud.
I so totally agree with this, too. There will always be something to complain about in any relationship/marriage. You just have to weigh out (pun? ) what you are putting into it and what you are getting out of it.... and then decide if it's worth it.
Funny, whatever love I have felt or gotten has always seemed worth it to me...at least for a little while

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Heh, you might as well ask why otherwise intelligent women date assholes and then bitch about it to their nice guy friends.
Touche....though this is a board full of fat people. It does seem ironic to come here and bitch about being hitched to a thin one when there are plenty of intelligent, beautiful, clever, wonderful, single fat people in the world.


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I think any F/FA who feels that way should really think about this scenario:

Someone walks up to you and says, "Man, you are gorgeous. Everything I've ever dreamed about and you know what, you seem like you're a cool person too. I'd love to get to know you better, but here's the thing. I could never date you officially, or introduce you to my friends or family because, well, they wouldn't approve and honestly, I don't want to make waves with my family and friends. But maybe we could, you know see each other anyway, on the side. I just won't ever, ever date you officially. But really, I think you're amazing. You understand, right? Right? Oh, and you feel bad for me for being so conflicted too, right? Right?"

I actually fantasize about a person like this.....I fantasize about bitch slapping them



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Wow, Zoner. Thank you so much for sharing. Beautifully written and heartfelt.


I concur...Thanks Zoner. Reading your story helped to give some insight that was probably needed around here
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:33 PM   #60
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I absolutely agree. And no need to apologize; you said exactly what you thought, and I admire that.

I couldn't agree more, and I'm painfully aware of that. They weren't horrific years for either of us. We both learned from each other, grew, had some very good times, and enjoyed a close friendship. But they were wasted in the sense that we could have had a more fulfilling time with someone else. And that was my fault. I can deal with the 15 years from my life, but the 15 unfulfilled years I took from hers eats me from the inside out on a daily basis. It's the one thing that makes me hesitant to get involved with anyone. I'm paranoid about messing up someone else's life.

Idealized commitment. Denial. Stupidity. I had convinced myself that sexuality wasn't a big deal for me. Love was more important to me (and still is, actually - only now I understand how important sex is in that). She wanted to be with me, even with the lukewarm level of passion from the beginning. We did genuinely love each other, and I cared for her deeply. I actually didn't understand why my sexuality had shut down (after some years), since I didn't feel that kind of attraction to anyone or anything anymore. It was just completely gone. I assumed it was biological, and that I wouldn't have that for anyone. It wasn't until after I let go of my commitment to her that I discovered I still have plenty of drive. And the lack of fulfillment for her didn't really make itself apparent (to either of us) for the first several years. She already had abandonment issues (before me), so until it became apparent that being with her was hurting her more than helping her, leaving my wife didn't feel like the noble thing to do.

If I had the same kind of friendship and mind connection that I had with my wife at that time? Absolutely. No question about it. (And it still would have been stupid and the wrong thing to do. But I've already covered that.)

Why wouldn't I have? It would have been the identical situation, only with the words "fat" and "thin" swapped. Unless you're suggesting that the real reason I married a thin woman is that I didn't want to be seen with someone fat. That is decidedly not the case. My first girlfriend was fat. I adored her, and I have to confess that I actually took her out places I wasn't really interested in going, just because I wanted people to see her with me (and yes, I realize now that that wasn't really being true to myself, either).

There was a fat girl at that college who I thought I liked, but when I got to talking with her, I discovered a room temperature IQ and the individuality of a lobotomized sheep. (One of the first things she told me was that she was going to see Far and Away that night, and that she was really excited because Tom Cruise was in it.) And a couple more girls I showed an interest in, but it wasn't reciprocated. Hell, you seem sharp and independent; if you'd been there (and were 20-something 15 years ago), I probably would have asked you out. And maybe we'd be married with 3 kids now. Or maybe you'd have seen that I was nothing like what you were looking for, and blown me off. Who knows. Anyway, my point is that my marriage to a thin woman had nothing to do with not wanting to be "out of the closet". Not even close.

I gather from your post that you've been burned by some cowardly FA's who wouldn't really commit to being with a fat woman. If that is the case, I'm really sorry to hear that. You deserve way better than that, and guys like that deserve no one.

But I get the distinct sense that you're suggesting that I'm one of those "closeted FA jerks." If that is, in fact, the case, I have to say that I deeply resent the implication.
Oh my, no, I wasn't implying that you were closeted...That thought passed into my brain and I verbalized it. But you answered the question in the way I thought and hoped you would. I probably should have worded it differently...but I'm sorry if I offended you.
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Old 03-09-2008, 10:56 AM   #61
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Oh my, no, I wasn't implying that you were closeted...That thought passed into my brain and I verbalized it. But you answered the question in the way I thought and hoped you would. I probably should have worded it differently...but I'm sorry if I offended you.
Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. I was a little too touchy and jumped to some inaccurate conclusions (sorry 'bout that! ).

So we're good, then?
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Old 03-09-2008, 11:23 AM   #62
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Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. I was a little too touchy and jumped to some inaccurate conclusions (sorry 'bout that! ).

So we're good, then?
I have a tendency to be brutally honest. Sometimes I'm praised and sometimes it gets me into trouble. Clearly self-editing is something I have to work on. But, dude, we're good.
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Old 03-09-2008, 01:14 PM   #63
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You know I tend to agree with most everything Ripley posted but sought to think of another reason. I see FAs on this board also complain a lot about "lack of confidence". Does this play a role in why they might be with a thinner/chubby woman? Is the thinner woman more confident in accepting advances from men? More flirtatious/open/experienced? I haven't always been a "wall flower" even though I have been chubby to fat and back again since the onset of puberty. Why is this? I suspect it actually could be my way of being "open" or putting myself out there. I don't mind to be the lone voice in the room speaking out, or the person that cracks the joke in the dead silence. I get myself noticed....sometimes unintentionally ( ). I talk to people easily and I'm very friendly. This probably goes a long way towards meeting new people.
Don't know....just tossing something out there though basically I tend to agree with the status quo that it's silly to complain to a board full of fat women because you CHOSE to marry a thin one.
I think that might be a part of this complicated issue -- I have some fat girlfriends and more than a few of them are really down on themselves...and I don't just mean, shy around people, but that they really don't do well with compliments and they hate to be noticed. It's sad because they've driven away some really great guys, who only wanted to get to know them better...yet, the blaring insecurities continued to get in the way.

One friend in particular, I think, purposely dresses the way she does to keep men at bay. And it bothers me for her -- she's absolutely gorgeous, but just doesn't see it...her intrinsic worth/value as a woman, as a human being. We've talked about it and I always say that what you think and how you really feel about yourself...it's what you manifest in your life. She doesn't believe she's attractive and she doesn't believe she deserves love and happiness and quite possibly it's the reason she ends up with losers.

I really believe that a person's energy is powerful -- it has the capacity to draw people that are wonderful and interesting or those who you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
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Old 03-09-2008, 05:23 PM   #64
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why order a hamburger when you can have filet mignon...
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Old 03-09-2008, 05:59 PM   #65
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That's an awesome analogy.
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Old 03-09-2008, 07:50 PM   #66
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I have always been filet mignon, no matter my size....well, except the fact that I have never referred to myself as a piece of meat
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:27 PM   #67
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Well Mossy:
I'd have to thank the late Jazz star -Louis Armstrong- for this quote;but, how about this analogy...

Why have a finger sandwich when you can have a Rueben!


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I have always been filet mignon, no matter my size....well, except the fact that I have never referred to myself as a piece of meat
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:37 PM   #68
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Why date a minnow when you can have the whole whale?
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:39 PM   #69
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why order a hamburger when you can have filet mignon...

Why just have any old Tom, Dick, or Harry, when you could have a Tony?

Hope you are well cookie.
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:42 PM   #70
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LMAOF - you are such a sweetie
- thanks

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Why just have any old Tom, Dick, or Harry, when you could have a Tony?

Hope you are well cookie.
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Old 03-09-2008, 09:19 PM   #71
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Why settle for flurries when you can get the whole snowstorm?
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Old 03-09-2008, 09:32 PM   #72
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Why settle for snow flurries when you can get the whole blizzard?
Why settle for being William Kennedy Smith, when you can be Ted Bundy?!

Yeah Dream big.
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Old 03-09-2008, 10:08 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Fascinita View Post
Why settle for being William Kennedy Smith, when you can be Ted Bundy?!

Yeah Dream big.
The Criminals

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Why date a minnow when you can have the whole whale?
The Animals

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Why settle for flurries when you can get the whole snowstorm?
The Elements

This is pretty cool I like these analogies
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Old 03-09-2008, 10:32 PM   #74
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I actually would probably prefer the hamburger to the filet mignon.

I simply have a taste for the finer things in life .. I'm rather upper class high society .. (god's gift to ballroom notoriety).
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Old 03-10-2008, 06:28 AM   #75
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I suspect some of has to do with just the unpredictability of life. But the pattern is so persistent, that it feels like there's more than just chance involved. If so many men are choosing thin partners when they would rather have fat partners, can we say that there isn't something "hinky" there?

.
I think it might at times have to do with keeping the chase element of the physical/sexual relationship alive over the months/years. For some, it might be the fact that it might feel good, and powerful, and savior-y to be able to say: so what if the world says you're ugly, *I* think you're beautiful! I'm not even saying that it's the control aspect (don't leave me! no one else thinks you're hot!) at work there, but perhaps the 'I'm important to you because I think this way' thing (sort of like the new convert. Ever notice how some people who proselytize feel very important? they've seen the light!). It's a way of being different and special and unique. In a world where we have precious few chances to feel that, it must be incredibly powerful. So yes. I think there's something hinky, for sure.
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