What confidence looks like

[Carl1h]

There has been some discussion here about confidence being appealing. I don't disagree, I think that confidence is sexy in women and I certainly am not surprised that women find it sexy in men. To start though I want to make a distinction between a lack of confidence and something more akin to depression. Let's leave out the dysfunctionally shy and the people who won't go out in public as problems beyond mere confidence. In my experience "on the ground" I have found that what I sometimes see as confidence in someone I just met, often turns out to be something else. Overconfidence sometimes or insecurity hiding behind bluster or just an inability to admit being wrong. So, part of why I am writing is to ask what you see in others that spells self confidence.

The second thing I want to do here is to relay an anecdote which I think might illustrate what I see as a problem of too much focus on confidence. To do this I have to digress into some personal stuff about me, don't lose interest, I'll try to make it short. I am pushing 500 lbs big, which means that my pants have a hard time finding a wide part to hold on to stay up. To keep my pants up I like to wear suspenders under my shirt (underneath, so I don't have to tuck in my shirt). Occasionally one of the clamps at the end of the suspenders will pop open an my pants will sag on that side, but they wont do more than sag, the remaining clamps keep them up. This is important because without suspenders once the pants slip off the belly, they're going to the ankles very quickly. So you know now that we're talking about pants staying up, or not staying up, right? The scene is in front of an elementary school. I do duty as a crossing guard at my neighborhood elementary school, so yes, I have a reason to be there. I'm carrying a couple of traffic cones into the building and I feel my pants slip down a bit. Because I am wearing suspenders I am confident that though one of the clips may have slipped off, my pants will not be falling down and in that confidence I just keep walking until I get the cones to their place and set them down. I hitch up my pants casually on the way back out, and after the last of the kids clear out in a couple moments I fish around in my shirt to find the errant suspender end... which isn't there. It turns out that the suspenders are hanging down at my hips, apparently I forgot to put them over my shoulders when I put my pants on. Which brings me back to what confidence looks like, for me confidence almost looked like a guy standing in front of an elementary school with his pants fallen down around his ankles, and while I can appreciate the slapstick quality of the accidental de-pantsing, I am also quite aware that the man standing in front of the elementary school with his pants fallen down is the man about to be crucified. So, yeah, confidence, hmmm, maybe it isn't always a good thing.

Carl

DISCLAIMER - No actual children were in danger of any sort of actual exposure to any sort of wardrobe malfunction. If the wardrobe in question had shown any indication of malfunctioning it's way any further towards the ground drastic measures would have been taken to prevent the malfunction from harming any of the children.

[BLUEeyedBanshee]

LOL

Thank you for sharing that story.

I have to admit...I did laugh.

[Santaclear]

Hey, it worked for Marilyn Monroe, didn't it? (Well, minus the suspenders and schoolchildren.)

Good story, Carl. I assume you made a swift recovery.

[SnapDragon]

Hi Carl,

A well-written post. I can see in this dangerous day and age how a man's trousers falling down for perfectly innocent reasons could potentially escalate into something nasty!

A lot of people have talked about 'confidence' here and on the Board-That-Must-Not-Be-Named recently. I often keep quiet on these discussions because I'm not quite sure confidence is the whole picture. If you're not a very extroverted person, approaching and speaking to someone you don't know can come across as very awkward, although a lot of practice would probably help. But confidence is a separate issue to being extroverted or introverted. Certainly, having confidence in oneself is part of what makes someone attractive, but I would define a larger portion of it as being self acceptance. That is, someone is more attractive if they are not desperately searching for a partner to make themselves whole, and if they seem to have found something worthwhile and enjoyable to focus on in their life. Someone who is nervous of other people but fascinating often picks up a fair amount of interest. As a child, lots of people used to come and look at the cartoons I used to draw -- both girls and boys -- even though I was effectively a pariah under any normal circumstances because of my inappropriate behaviour (I've got an autistic disorder). The point was, I'd created my own world in my head where I was happy, and other people could see that and they wanted to be in it. I think the most important thing is to develop who you are and be a complete person, then confidence (whatever that is) will come naturally and people will see you as a whole individual, not a lopsided half. Remember that you don't need to start a conversation in order to be noticed in it. 'Confident' people are always starting conversations, but they rarely make the most insightful or the most humorous contribution to it. And a lot of these extroverted people don't have much trouble finding a relationship, but they do seem to have a high turnover. These people are difficult to live with and often disliked as much as they are admired.

Often when I've found someone's personality repellent, it seems to be not so much lack of confidence as self-loathing and self-disinterest. It is very hard for anyone to love someone who cannot love themselves.

-SnapDragon.

[Dr. P Marshall]

Originally Posted by SnapDragon

Hi Carl,

A well-written post. I can see in this dangerous day and age how a man's trousers falling down for perfectly innocent reasons could potentially escalate into something nasty...


-SnapDragon.

That's a great post, SnapDragon, and you bring up some important points and distinctions. I think the word "confidence" is thrown around too often, and it is easy to confuse it with other concepts. Extroverts, people who are cocky, people who are trying too hard and confident people are not all the same thing. A person can be socially shy and still be a confident person. I'm going to take it outside the realm of relationships for a minute and say that a person can easily be quietly confident. Ever seen a person who is really good at something doing it? It could be anything from fixing a computer to watching an athlete at a training session, you know when someone is confident in what they're doing.

The problem becomes when a person tries to determine what it looks like to be confident with who you are. That means such different things for different people. Some people genuinely like to meet other people and find everyone and everything interesting. Some people think they have to "work a room". They may end up talking to the same amount of people, but while one person is being genuine, the other is trying too hard. And to me, you can always tell the difference, but there is no way I could describe what that difference was until I saw the two people in action. It's sort of the same with the self loathing issue. A person can be shy socially or in certain situations, but still overall be comfortable in their own skin, so to speak. Being shy doesn't make you self loathing and it doesn't mean you have no confidence. You just might not have it in that situation. That is very different from a person whose self esteem is so low that they seem to be apologizing for their very existence with every action and word. Again, that is tough to describe in the abstract, but most of us know it when we see it. (Or,heaven help us, date it.) The truth is, I think everyone who is self loathing is well aware of the fact that they are. It's very different from lacking self confidence about one's appearance, or with women or what have you. Self loathing goes so much deeper and the issues are usually so much more complex and that's what makes a self loathing person hard to date. There's usually more than just one emotional hurdle to overcome with a self loathing person. I think, especially when talking about issues of weight, that a self loathing fat person could lose 200 pounds become a thin person, and will most likely still be self loathing. Because it's not really about their weight, it's about the fact they hate themselves. Whereas someone who is insecure or shy (for lack of a better term) about their weight can overcome that. They can accept themselves at that weight, or even better, at any weight, and then add that positive self image about their weight to the other positive qualities they already see in themselves. And that, I think is what many FFAs and FAs are talking about when they say they will be patient when someone needs to build their confidence. But a self loathing mess of any size, shape or gender is not someone most people would really want in their lives on an intimate level.

And, as an aside,speaking in terms of relationships and shyness, well, I think someone who is shy at first but warms up to you eventually and lets you see more and more of their personality as time goes on, well, that's actually very charming in my opinion and part of the excitement of discovering each other as a relationship progresses.

*And yes, I realize I veered off topic to self loathing, but I really think that's what a lot of people are trying to say when they say "confident" = not self loathing.

[Carl1h]

Originally Posted by SnapDragon

Certainly, having confidence in oneself is part of what makes someone attractive, but I would define a larger portion of it as being self acceptance.

Often when I've found someone's personality repellent, it seems to be not so much lack of confidence as self-loathing and self-disinterest. It is very hard for anyone to love someone who cannot love themselves.

-SnapDragon.

Thanks Snapdragon, that is very well put.

[fat hiker]

Originally Posted by Dr. P Marshall

Self loathing goes so much deeper and the issues are usually so much more complex and that's what makes a self loathing person hard to date. There's usually more than just one emotional hurdle to overcome with a self loathing person. I think, especially when talking about issues of weight, that a self loathing fat person could lose 200 pounds become a thin person, and will most likely still be self loathing. Because it's not really about their weight, it's about the fact they hate themselves. Whereas someone who is insecure or shy (for lack of a better term) about their weight can overcome that. They can accept themselves at that weight, or even better, at any weight, and then add that positive self image about their weight to the other positive qualities they already see in themselves. And that, I think is what many FFAs and FAs are talking about when they say they will be patient when someone needs to build their confidence.

Very well put!

[Ninja_Panda]

Very nicely put Marshall. I do think everyone has a certian amount of shyness that they hold and that's pretty health.
My brother and I worked at a chain-food-o-matic place for awhile. We both started out at the same time. My brother is the kind of guy that can get everyone to notice him that day and act as though they've known him for years. I on the other had needed a couple weeks to get to know people better then make friend with them. People thought I was shy but I personally just need a little time before becoming friends with people.